Selling Used Copies of Digital Downlaod
wargamerjack
I decide to post here after advise from a member here and I know I
will be in for tough time and probably attack from left and right
<smile>
Here it goes
I am promoting a website called Wargamerjack Hideout that sell used
copies of digital download and wish to highlight these points
Pirated Copy
Copies are obtain mostly from the warez site
They are dangerous as they might contain trojan and virus
Although you can get the game to install but you will no able to
update the game and that is bad as the original version are usually
full of bugs
The game can't be patch as the serial in use are "blacklisted" by the
publisher
Used Copy
This Copy is exactly the same copy that is download from the
publisher site and bought with genuine serial number
Meaning there is no different at all between brand new and used copy
except the following
1) You will not able to use the Beta Patch as they are available only
to the first owner) and have to wait for the Public Patch which is not
a bad thing as the Beta Patch normally are not yet stable,
2) There is no way to know whether the previous owner has stopped
playing the game, which he suppose to do so since he already "sold"
his game , this of course have no effect on the used copy at all and I
think this matter should be overcome by the publisher and not us as
the consumer
So if you are well to do and can afford to buy brand new games at
$50-60 , please go ahead to do so
But if you are struggling with rising living cost but yet wish to
play some great games , then you can visit us at WargamerJack Hideout
www.wargamerjack.com
Here you can get used games at low price , sell/trade your games that
you no longer playing or does not work on your system so you can get
new games to play with
Most of the games are price between $7.00 - $ 9.90
Alright guys fire your salvo !!
Probably I will be called the Pirate seller <smile>
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Jack
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Pirated Copy
Glad you admit it - that's all the folks in here need to know.
... and to copy Mr. Parker's observation from the strategic ng :
(sarcasm) Eddy, now thats really unfair.
Its not nearly as illegal where he is as it is where you are.
Have you "whois" his site yet?
Its registered to a gmail address in Malaysia and its almost a week
old. :)
Why of COURSE I would trust such a site with my credit card info!
(/sarcasm)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
If you read properly , I am trying to point the different between
pirated copies and use copy
Guess the main point here is can we sell the used digital games that
we bought ?
Example
If I bought a digital download game from MartrixGames , can sell it if
I don;t like the game ?
If I had bought it as a digital plus boxed copy , then can I rersell
the box copy ?
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Guess the main point here is can we sell the used digital games that
> we bought ?
Sure. But you didn't buy anything, you're just peddling warez.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
Eddy , ok you win , I am a warez seller who trying to rip members
here , so will you let me go now < smile>
Seriously , can we resell the digital download games ?
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Eddy , ok you win , I am a warez seller who trying to rip members
> here
Glad you admit it.
> Seriously , can we resell the digital download games ?
Reading comprehension problem as well ? Yes you can provided you've
bought them in the first place - which rules you out.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
Don't worry Eddy , If you were to buy from me , I can show you my
receipt from Matrix as well as Digital River , I own about 20 Matrix
and AGEOD games
You mean we can resell digital download games , that is great and I
totally agree
The only thing is like what I pointed out how do prevent the first
owner from playing the game ? Well I guess that it is the publisher
problem I guess
I once bought Commander Europe at War from Slithrine Software that
only allow me to install 3 times and it really troublesome and end up
bought another copy from Matrix
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> I can show you my
> receipt from Matrix as well as Digital River
Keep them handy for when the Matrix guys come knocking on your door.
They post in this ng, not in the strategic one, so thanks for falling
for my trap.
>, I own about 20 Matrix
> and AGEOD games
And you're selling them multiple times - how convenient.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
wrote:
Geez eddy you really can't let this go wont you ? Guess those Matrix
guys will give you great reward for catch a warez seller < smile>
As you were saying selling multiples times , do you mean selling the
same game to many people , interesting ..what happen if two friends
were to buy the same game at the same ..don't they will getting the
same serial number ..? then what happen ? I don't think that is
possible ,,
That will be good if the Matrix guys are here ...maybe they can
provide shed of light on the reselling the used copies of the digital
download game
Jack
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Geez eddy you really can't let this go wont you ?
Nope. And unlike you I get paid while doing this.
Here's some info some people in here will find interesting.
Domain name: wargamerjack.com
Registrant:
Jack Lau (YA9W9) wargam...@gmail.com
49 Jalan 5/31
Petaling Jaya, 46000
Malaysia
Phone: +60 60379554248
Still thinking you'll get away with this ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
wrote:
> On 29 dec, 11:17, wargamerjack <wargamerj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Geez eddy you really can't let this go wont you ?
>
> Nope. And unlike you I get paid while doing this.
>
> Here's some info some people in here will find interesting.
>
> Domain name: wargamerjack.com
>
> Registrant:
>
> 49 Jalan 5/31
> Petaling Jaya, 46000
> Malaysia
> Phone: +60 60379554248
>
> Still thinking you'll get away with this ?
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
Hi thanks for the info ,,,if i want to hide my whois , i will have
register it under private <smile> and probably fake the name and
address ..don't that is my address <smile>
Getting back the point ..do you own any battlefront games like
Strategic Command - what do you think of their e license protection
method . ?
wargamerjack
Sorry what I mean is that the Name and address are my real address
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Hi thanks for the info ,,,if i want to hide my whois , i will have
> register it under private <smile> and probably fake the name and
> address ..
LOL - better do that next time you set up a pirate site.
Got a real job yet ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
wrote:
Hi Hi ........thanks probably want to apply to Matrix as their warez
catcher
Anyway thanks and if I have offended you in anyway , will like to say
sorry
and you can get me at MSN wargam...@hotmail.com , maybe we can chat
that sometimes
Jack
eddys...@hotmail.com
> and you can get me at MSN
Oh, they'll get you alright ...
Ok, guessing that's the last we see of that pirate.
Must have scared the shit out of him that his personal info is
available by doing a 'whois' :)
Here's hoping the combined sum he paid for registering + setting up
his pirate site is more than what he makes in sales.
The pirate's eternal problem : in order to sell his warez, he has to
advertize where wargamers hang out. Wargamers like me. Wargamers who
detest pirates with a vengence. Better give up pirating guys, 'cause
it ain't working.
Oh, and to avoid duplicate work : info about this got send to Matrix
Games right from the moment he started posting - they're taking care
of him from their end.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
Hi Eddy ,
I have to agree with you that pirating is hurting the developer , that
why I bought a lot of Matrixgames although it is expensive for
average salary earner like me , I buy digital download cause it save a
lot of shipping as I live a distant away
I just want resell the games that I bought with my hard earned money
but you keep saying that I am pirating
Is it a policy that I cannot resell my own games , then show me one
be it from Matrix or any publ;isher
I will not run away as I have done nothing wrong , I don't steal or
anything of that , just tjhat I am reselling digital download games
mean that I have commited any crime
If I am not allow to sell my games then tell me upfront .put up a big
notice saying that you are not allow to sell any game that you bought
from us
and who are you to tell me that I can't do that ???Are you an
employee .?l
Ask MatrixGames to tell me and show where is the rules that I cannot
sell those games
wargamerjack
of what I have paid Matrixgames and other publisher for their games
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> I have to agree with you that I'm a stinkin' pirate
You still here ?
"GET CARRIERS AT WAR ONLY AT $5 WITH ANY OTHER SINGLE PURCHASE"
Bought 50 copies or what ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
> And please those games that I have resell is only the fraction amount
> of what I have paid Matrixgames and other publisher for their games
Paid ?
You ?
ROTFL
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
P.S. If you think you can out-post me you're a special kind of
pirate : a really dumb one.
wargamerjack
Yes we have 2 copies of Carrier of war with me ...so can't I sell
it ..to what ever amount i want ??? or i must get permisison form
you ?
wargamerjack
Maybe you can get your boss Matrix to contact me and I am glad to show
them my receipts..
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Maybe you can get your boss Matrix to contact me and I am glad to show
Oh, they'll "contact" you alright ...
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Yes we have 2 copies of Carrier of war with me ...
Translation : I found 2 serials while browsing the warez boards.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
Yeah then ask your boss to contact me and we will show them the two
serial number bought from them
.
wargamerjack
Anyway , I will wait for them to contact me and show me a policy that
I cannot resell my own games then I will personally take the site
down ...until then you can bark as much as you want and there will be
no more comment from me , kind of pointless talking to you ..
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Yeah then ask your boss to contact me and we will show them the two
> serial number bought from them
LOL - as if - you know what, let's make a deal :
If the Matrix guys confirm in here you're legit I'll buy a game from
you.
See, now it's very easy for you to make your first sale : just
convince the Matrix guys you're legit.
<waiting for hell to freeze over>
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Anyway , I will wait for them to contact me and show me a policy that
> I cannot resell my own games then I will personally take the site
> down ...
Why wait for the "cease and desist" notice ?
>until then you can bark as much as you want and there will be
> no more comment from me , kind of pointless talking to you ..
Getting desperate are we ?
Seeing a "perfect pirate plan" fall apart ?
Yeah, it's a sad world in which a pirate can't make a dishonest buck,
but I kinda like it that way.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Raging Tiger
did. I, too, have a few digital titles from Matrix and others I don't
play anymore and I'd love to sell them, so I'm interested in the
answer to his question.
In my reading of his post, he was positing a comparison between using
warez vs. the original digital download product. Maybe I'm a bit naive
(I KNOW people have stolen my games, many are from Malaysia as is this
guy - the laws there are very different, and the government wouldn't
support his prosecution, even if Matrix pushed it), but I would give
the guy the benefit of the doubt, engage him and answer his question,
note his info, send it to Matrix to see if he's legit, then just sit
back and wait instead of getting into a pissing contest with him.
I'm hopeful that he is, in fact, a legit consumer desiring to unload
some stuff he doesn't use anymore. I am also hopeful that we finally
get full disclosure on re-selling of digital downloads from Matrix.
I guess the ball's in your court, so to speak....
eddys...@hotmail.com
> With all due respect, Eddy, I didn't read his initial post like you
> did. I, too, have a few digital titles from Matrix and others I don't
> play anymore and I'd love to sell them, so I'm interested in the
> answer to his question.
The answer is very simple and has been restated by Matrix guys a
couple of times : you are allowed to re-sell your digital downloads to
someone else. Or give them away. You can even post a "who wants this
game ?" on their forum. It seems they realize that a customer being
able to re-sell a game he didn't like after all is not a lost
customer.
>Maybe I'm a bit naive
:)
> but I would give
> the guy the benefit of the doubt,
One look at his website should clear things up. This is not a guy
who's re-selling a couple of his games. This is a pirate setup.
> engage him and answer his question,
I elected not to because it would take the focus away from the fact
he's a pirate. People dropping in later would then get the impression
he's legit.
> note his info, send it to Matrix to see if he's legit, then just sit
> back and wait instead of getting into a pissing contest with him.
All info got forwarded yesterday ... and I like pissing contests :)
> I am also hopeful that we finally
> get full disclosure on re-selling of digital downloads from Matrix.
eh, you may have missed this, but they already did that a number of
times. See above.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
> (I KNOW people have stolen my games, many are from Malaysia as is this
> guy
Seperate reaction to this.
I know how your software checks this but don't expect many sales in a
country where a well-paid software engineer makes like $800 a month.
In other words : don't equate guys in Malaysia playing pirated copies
of your game as lost sales. In fact : don't worry about them as
there's no way they would (or could) ever have paid for them.
But it's an entirely different matter if someone in Malaysia starts
*selling* pirated games. That *does* have an impact on your bottom
line.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> you are allowed to re-sell your digital downloads to
> someone else.
From a quick search :
Erik Rutins :
"We rely on our customers, should they decide to sell a download copy
of a game, being honorable enough to just provide the installer on a
CD with the serial number to the new owner and wipe all copies of it
from their own system"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/m.asp?m=1638177&mpage=1&key=sell%2Cdigital
Good enough ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
rus4...@hotmail.com
>
> Good enough ?
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
As a game collector, the download versions are worth little more than
a temporary convenience to me.
I always buy a hard-copy from Matrix, because I know that the files
can be passed around so easily.
As to buying something from a website like the one cited in this
thread, FORGET IT!
If they'll rip Matrix off, they'll figure out a way to do it to me as
well.
They'll either figure out a way to steal from me via the purchase, or
download some crap on to my computer.
If there's anyone out there that's willing to take those kind of risks
over a forty or fifty dollar game (retail), then I suggest you try and
hold on until you can buy the real thing.
Giftzwerg
e0fa57...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, wargam...@gmail.com
says...
> Greetings all
>
> I decide to post here after advise from a member here and I know I
> will be in for tough time and probably attack from left and right
> <smile>
>
> Here it goes
>
> I am promoting a website called Wargamerjack Hideout that sell used
> copies of digital download and wish to highlight these points
>
> Pirated Copy
> Copies are obtain mostly from the warez site
> They are dangerous as they might contain trojan and virus
*plonk*
--
Giftzwerg
***
"A rocket apparently fired by Palestinians on Friday struck a house in
the Gaza Strip, killing two Palestinian sisters aged five and 13,
Palestinian medics said."
- Reuters
"Whoa, whoa, whoa! Nice shootin', Tex!"
- Dr. Peter Venkman
Giftzwerg
@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > engage him and answer his question,
>
> I elected not to because it would take the focus away from the fact
> he's a pirate. People dropping in later would then get the impression
> he's legit.
And then there's the even more depressing side of the issue; that
publishers and developers will almost certainly crow, "SEE!!?!? WE
*NEED* MASSIVE DRM!! SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU JUST USE A SERIAL NUMBER
AND REFUSE TO TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS AS CRIMINALS!!!!"
Gandalf Parker
73f5-4c0a-9ef...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> I am promoting a website called Wargamerjack Hideout that sell used
> copies of digital download and wish to highlight these points
Not a good idea for many many reasons.
Let me give you this option instead (this is a watered down version of info
I usually get paid for)....
Create an associates account with someone like Amazon.com (its free) or
CafePress.com
Create a website that search engines such as Google loves. Lots of changing
text. Do reviews of games, or opinions, do a wiki, a forum, a blog, a news
page, a newsletter, whatever.
LINK to the games and books about games on sites such as Amazon which are
willing to pay you for each person you send there.
LINK to gamers versions of tshirts, mugs, bumperstickers, posters,
mousepads, etc. If there arent any then create some at someplace like
CafePress (its free). Coffee mugs with keypress charts are a good item for
late-night gaming.
OK so its not fast easy money but it does work and probably with less
effort than you seem to be putting into this site if you are legit.
Gandalf Parker
--
What am I doing here?
Have you ever heard "those who can, do; and those who cant, teach"?
Well I dont do either one. But Im a real good pitch man.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <5a9ce81e-1d57-4789-a8b7-be5434448288
>
> > > engage him and answer his question,
>
> > I elected not to because it would take the focus away from the fact
> > he's a pirate. People dropping in later would then get the impression
> > he's legit.
>
> And then there's the even more depressing side of the issue; that
> publishers and developers will almost certainly crow, "SEE!!?!? WE
> *NEED* MASSIVE DRM!! SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU JUST USE A SERIAL NUMBER
> AND REFUSE TO TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS AS CRIMINALS!!!!"
Let's take a step back and have a look at how much money Matrix Games
actually lost here.
None.
In order for a pirate to make money on selling wargames he needs
customers. The only way to get customers to visit his site is to
advertize it on those few select spots on the 'Net where wargamers
gather. There he gets an ice-cold reception at best because at every
site there are gamers who detest these rats. Catch 22.
I give you that it's different for mainstream titles - no publisher
can monitor all sites and forums so a pirate has a half-decent chance
to make a dishonest buck, but in wargames ?
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > And then there's the even more depressing side of the issue; that
> > publishers and developers will almost certainly crow, "SEE!!?!? WE
> > *NEED* MASSIVE DRM!! SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU JUST USE A SERIAL NUMBER
> > AND REFUSE TO TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS AS CRIMINALS!!!!"
>
> Let's take a step back and have a look at how much money Matrix Games
> actually lost here.
>
> None.
>
> In order for a pirate to make money on selling wargames he needs
> customers. The only way to get customers to visit his site is to
> advertize it on those few select spots on the 'Net where wargamers
> gather. There he gets an ice-cold reception at best because at every
> site there are gamers who detest these rats. Catch 22.
>
> I give you that it's different for mainstream titles - no publisher
> can monitor all sites and forums so a pirate has a half-decent chance
> to make a dishonest buck, but in wargames ?
You know that. I know that. But my suspicion is that somewhere out
there, a publisher or developer tucks every incident like this away to
trot out whenever there's a "DRM" thread in some forum or other.
In other words, while I think you're right that <developer> hasn't lost
any money here, I think there might be some other developer or publisher
who might use this case - and similar cases - as justification for their
DRM aspirations. And probably DRM purveyors who will point to it as
validation of their services.
As a practical matter, it's almost irrelevant. But in the world of
perceptions, it might be a horse of a different color.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <604c1639-ccf8-43dc-9bf5-dddd45ea15e0
So your point is that the less smart/more paranoid developers/
publishers will fail to see this for what it really is ?
Probably so, but it's the *other* developers/publishers who'll be
getting my money. In the end we'll see what's more important to them :
security from some Malaysian wannabe pirate <see above> or my $50.
Capitalism works.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
ERutins
> copies of digital download and wish to highlight these points
The idea of some kind of clearing house for digital downloads seems
beyond suspicious to me.
> 2) There is no way to know whether the previous owner has stopped
> playing the game, which he suppose to do so since he already "sold"
> his game , this of course have no effect on the used copy at all and I
> think this matter should be overcome by the publisher and not us as
> the consumer
I'm not entirely clear on this. Are you the original owner or not?
If you can't confirm that the original owner is no longer playing the
game, then you should not be selling it. We allow the game's owner to
sell the download version, as long as they entirely wipe it from their
own system.
If you are the original owner, why are you selling all your games?
Why bother to setup a website to sell these games if you have a finite
supply?
Why don't you send me an e-mail at er...@matrixgames.com so we can
discuss this offline.
Regards,
- Erik
Giftzwerg
32e12a...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com
says...
> > As a practical matter, it's almost irrelevant. But in the world of
> > perceptions, it might be a horse of a different color.
>
> So your point is that the less smart/more paranoid developers/
> publishers will fail to see this for what it really is ?
I guess my point is that it never *helps* consumers when piracy wanders
into the spotlight somehow. I'd just as soon developers were 100%
confident that the type of wargamers who frequent this forum were
staunch anti-piracy types who wouldn't touch this douchebag's warez with
a ten-foot pole.
> Probably so, but it's the *other* developers/publishers who'll be
> getting my money. In the end we'll see what's more important to them :
> security from some Malaysian wannabe pirate <see above> or my $50.
> Capitalism works.
What worries me most is that there are many, many "borderlines" in the
DRM issue. For instance, there's a "border" between zero protections at
all and a simple serial number. And there's a "border" between a simple
serial number and a Need-CD check.
So consider Joe Developer. He's built his game, and he's getting ready
to publish. Joe's perception of the pirate threat isn't necessarily
going to move him all the way from a broad category of "non-paranoid-is-
getting-my-money" to "no-fucking-way-activation-boy" ... but it might be
enough to move him from the "serial number" niche to the "Securom"
niche. Or from no protections to serial number. And so on.
Non-helpful, this.
My main point here is that *this wargamerjagoff dude ain't helping us*.
Anything that raises the spectre of piracy is A Bad Thing.
wargamerjack
Dear Erik
I have sent you an email so that we can discuss this
I have started this website as few of friends has been getting
difficulty to buy new games as our economic worsen
We have a lot digital download games that we no longer play anymore
and it do add up to huge amount
We want to figure a way to sell this games so that we can raise funds
to buy new
great games such War Between States , Commander Napoleon at war
( which sadly miss your Holiday Discount ) at $60 is almost equal to
my quarter of salary but I love those games , so I am trying to sell
those games that I no longer play
We also know that a lot of not well to do gamers face the same
problem , we want to create a secondhand market for this digital
download games and Wargamerjack Hideout is born with this in mind
We do hope that there is a way that we cuold sell off this games and
at the same time create win win situation
Jack
J
wargamerjack
We do have all the proof that we are legit owner of the games such
Matrix Receipt / Digital River and as the serial registered with the
Member Club
We just need a way to sell away all these digital download games
without breaking any laws and the end of the at those funds are pump
back to buy more games
We hope that we can get a clear picture on how we can resell these
games and as a mark of respect , we stop all selling until we able to
get better understanding of this matter
wargamerjack
not even have proof at all and next time please do not jump at
something until you are very sure
It might be fun for you to poke at people but not everyone can take it
very well , so next time please be more sensitive on what you say
Let Erik Rutins work this out with me and hopefully we can figure
with away to resell those games
wargamerjack
wargamerjack
Then you better choose your game now as I am very sure Erik Rutins
will able to confirm whether I am a legit owner and do remember to
leave good feedback for me
Jack
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Then you better choose your game now as I am very sure Erik Rutins
> will able to confirm whether I am a legit owner
I will buy a game from you if you turn out to be legit, which I still
highly doubt.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
wargamerjack
No problem Eddy , I never blame you as I know the feeling . I hate
pirate myself , to be frank in my country , pirates are every where
It kind of sick to see your neighbor playing a game that he pay for
maybe $2 which is the same game you paid $50 but I do understand from
the start , original games does have many advantage that why I don't
mind fork out big sum especially for small developer
But as the rising cost living and the exchange rates of USD to MYR has
double over the years , games has been very expensive
That why me and my friend setup this website in hoping to help resell
the games as well as helping other gamers in this part of Asia
Surely the gamers can sell on their own but to sell digital download
they need to host the game files which could be as big as 1G , using
the Digital river download link might reveal sensitive info and some
might be already expired
So by having website , thing can be solve and it is no easy task to
upload the games , setup the website besides the costing
Further plan are to host patches from various publisher , mods , maps
and so on , to create a one stop for all wargamers ,that is what I
like to see
Anyway . I again wish to say sorry if I at the moment anger utter some
offensive words
Jack
wargamerjack
Napoleon at War but between them I have to fork US $110 ( almost 1/3
of my salary ) , hope that I get a good bonus this year
or maybe anyone want resell their copy , please let me know :)
Jack
eddys...@hotmail.com
> I hate
> pirate myself , to be frank in my country , pirates are every where
Yeah, and he's one of them. After his webshop got closed down now our
dear pal is on eBay selling his warez
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/jack_lau65
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
ERutins
be trying to close this down.