Ace Patrol (iPad) - announced

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

Hi,

Shades of Wings of War, but it's a brand new WW1 air combat game
designed by Sid Meier

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/01/ace-patrol-developer-demo

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Giftzwerg]

In article <ba607a42-0171-4399-99fb-8ed637dd9755
@k8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...

> Shades of Wings of War, but it's a brand new WW1 air combat game
> designed by Sid Meier
>
> http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/01/ace-patrol-developer-demo

Sold. ACHTUNG, SPITFIRE! meets Sid Meier on the iPad. Looks brilliant,
and the pricing is spot-on; free to start with, campaigns going for
$0.99 or $1.99.

Buy. Day one.

--
Giftzwerg
***
"While Ms. Giffords certainly has my sympathy for the violence she
suffered, it should be noted that being shot in the head by a lunatic
does not give one any special grace to pronounce upon public-policy
questions, nor does it give one moral license to call people 'cowards'
for holding public-policy views at variance with one?s own."
- Kevin Williamson

[dougb]

I wish they'd port Sid's Old Nato Commander - god I loved that game.

Doug

[jack dempsey]

LOVE Sid Meier!!!

I've been a fan since Hellcat Ace on my old Atari 800!

Looks fantastic!!!

Can't wait to get my hands on it.
and..
Priced right too boot!!



"Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. It is a force, like fire: a dangerous servant and a terrible master." - George Washington

[Giftzwerg]

In article <fc76fa32-b973-4f64...@googlegroups.com>,
douglas...@rogers.com says...

> I wish they'd port Sid's Old Nato Commander - god I loved that game.

I'd like to see a full update of that sucker. I think you can get it on
an emulation ... but ... well ... feh.

NATO COMMANDER, I don't even need to recall, was absolutely the very
first (personal) computer game I ever played. Loaded it from a cassette
tape onto my C=64.

[Giftzwerg]

In article <bsu5o8dk85k0e8022...@4ax.com>,
jackcham...@hotmail.com says...

> LOVE Sid Meier!!!
>
> I've been a fan since Hellcat Ace on my old Atari 800!
>
> Looks fantastic!!!
>
> Can't wait to get my hands on it.
> and..
> Priced right too boot!!

And the release date seems to be ... MAY 9!!! One week from today!!!!!

If this thing is as good as it looks, then Sid Meier continues in his
Godhood.

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 3 mei, 00:35, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <ba607a42-0171-4399-99fb-8ed637dd9755

> @k8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, eddyster...@hotmail.com says...

>
> > Shades of Wings of War, but it's a brand new WW1 air combat game
> > designed by Sid Meier
>
> >http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/01/ace-patrol-developer-demo
>
> Sold.  ACHTUNG, SPITFIRE! meets Sid Meier on the iPad.  Looks brilliant,
> and the pricing is spot-on; free to start with, campaigns going for
> $0.99 or $1.99.
>
> Buy.  Day one.

I hate to point out ... nah, I don't ... that this looks almost
exactly like a hexified direct port of the Wings of War boardgame :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 3 mei, 03:08, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If this thing is as good as it looks, then Sid Meier continues in his
> Godhood.

My definition of irony just changed. The guy who has a knee-jerk
reaction to boardgame ports suddenly professing a liking for the guy
who's done nothing but porting boardgames to the digital platform :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Giftzwerg]

In article <b6075b99-4afc-4883-98ad-306f93de9570
@a6g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...

> > Sold.  ACHTUNG, SPITFIRE! meets Sid Meier on the iPad.  Looks brilliant,
> > and the pricing is spot-on; free to start with, campaigns going for
> > $0.99 or $1.99.
> >
> > Buy.  Day one.
>
> I hate to point out ... nah, I don't ... that this looks almost
> exactly like a hexified direct port of the Wings of War boardgame :)

What do I care?

My beef with boardgames has never been that there's something evil about
them that taints every aspect of a computer product derived from them,
what I object to is when the designer of a PC game makes the key
relationship in the PC design between the paper game and the PC game,
rather than from the real-world situation and the PC game.

OK, I see from the video that each pilot / machine combo has a series of
cards that depict the maneuvers that are possible, given the handling of
airplane and the practice of the pilot. Cards! "Hulk-Smash," right?

No. Because I don't need to shuffle through a bunch of cards to play
the game, since the system displays in graphical format the moves the
active plane can make, and my brain supplies the tactical plot whichever
move might imply. I don't even need to look at the cards, unless I want
a more fulsome explanation of why this or that pilot / plane can't, say,
pull an Immelmann; "Ah, because he's new and hasn't learned that trick
yet."

I look at the demo and see the magic of a *computer* game; the player is
thinking:

"OK, I'll try a head-on pass and hope for a lucky hit, then sweep up in
a chandelle and try to get on his tail; it's a BE2, so my Fokker should
be able to wax his tail."

Instead of:

"OK, I'll play the Head-On Pass card, and hope to roll 6 on my to-hit
die roll, then I'll hit him with the Chandelle card, modified with my
Ace Pilot card and the Out Of The Sun event card."

That's my beef against boardgames; not that a PC design includes
boardgame elements somewhere, but that - like the awful PHANTOM LEADER -
it never gets past its' roots and keeps clubbing me over the head with
heavy, boardgamey stodge.

[Giftzwerg]

In article <9556e87f-32c3-4995-b165-8ddbe1287698
@h1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...

> > If this thing is as good as it looks, then Sid Meier continues in his
> > Godhood.
>
> My definition of irony just changed. The guy who has a knee-jerk
> reaction to boardgame ports suddenly professing a liking for the guy
> who's done nothing but porting boardgames to the digital platform :)

Wrong. He's done nothing but take boardgames and turn them into proper
computer games.

PIRATES, for example, is a perfect, canonical example of a properly
designed computer game.

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 3 mei, 14:25, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <9556e87f-32c3-4995-b165-8ddbe1287698

> @h1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, eddyster...@hotmail.com says...

>
> > > If this thing is as good as it looks, then Sid Meier continues in his
> > > Godhood.
>
> > My definition of irony just changed. The guy who has a knee-jerk
> > reaction to boardgame ports suddenly professing a liking for the guy
> > who's done nothing but porting boardgames to the digital platform :)
>
> Wrong.  He's done nothing but take boardgames and turn them into proper
> computer games.
>
> PIRATES, for example, is a perfect, canonical example of a properly
> designed computer game.

Merchants & Marauders

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25292/merchants-marauders

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 3 mei, 14:23, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <b6075b99-4afc-4883-98ad-306f93de9570

> @a6g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, eddyster...@hotmail.com says...

>
> > > Sold.  ACHTUNG, SPITFIRE! meets Sid Meier on the iPad.  Looks brilliant,
> > > and the pricing is spot-on; free to start with, campaigns going for
> > > $0.99 or $1.99.
>
> > > Buy.  Day one.
>
> > I hate to point out ... nah, I don't ... that this looks almost
> > exactly like a hexified direct port of the Wings of War boardgame :)
>
> What do I care?
>
> My beef with boardgames has never been that there's something evil about
> them that taints every aspect of a computer product derived from them,
> what I object to is when the designer of a PC game makes the key
> relationship in the PC design between the paper game and the PC game,
> rather than from the real-world situation and the PC game.
>
> OK, I see from the video that each pilot / machine combo has a series of
> cards that depict the maneuvers that are possible, given the handling of
> airplane and the practice of the pilot.  Cards!  "Hulk-Smash," right?

It's even worse : in the video you can see little pegs depicting the
altitude level of the plane which look *exactly* like the Lego pegs we
use for our tabletop air combat games. What happened to discrete
values being better and not posing any problems because "a computer
can handle all the number stuff anyway" ?

> No.  Because I don't need to shuffle through a bunch of cards to play
> the game, since the system displays in graphical format the moves the
> active plane can make, and my brain supplies the tactical plot whichever
> move might imply.  I don't even need to look at the cards, unless I want
> a more fulsome explanation of why this or that pilot / plane can't, say,
> pull an Immelmann; "Ah, because he's new and hasn't learned that trick
> yet."

Most likely because his plane couldn't handle it without falling
apart.

> I look at the demo and see the magic of a *computer* game

To me it looks like you're seeing what you want to see - I see Wings
of War :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Frank E]

I don't see where you're going with that comment but I'm reasonably
sure that once you get there, you're gonna look pretty stupid. :p

The idea for Pirates might have come from a boardgame ( I don't know
if it did or not) but the actual mechanics of the game are about as
far removed from a board game as you can get.

Rgds, Frank

[Giftzwerg]

In article <IJuHUdwIy6+F8U...@4ax.com>,
fakea...@hotmail.com says...

> >> PIRATES, for example, is a perfect, canonical example of a properly
> >> designed computer game.
> >
> >Merchants & Marauders
> >
> >http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25292/merchants-marauders
> >
>
> I don't see where you're going with that comment but I'm reasonably
> sure that once you get there, you're gonna look pretty stupid. :p
>
> The idea for Pirates might have come from a boardgame ( I don't know
> if it did or not) but the actual mechanics of the game are about as
> far removed from a board game as you can get.

Kinda hard, too, to get the idea for PIRATES from a game that appeared
25 years after it did. I guess Sid Meier must have second sight.

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 6 mei, 14:13, Frank E <fakeaddr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 3 May 2013 06:17:50 -0700 (PDT), "eddyster...@hotmail.com"

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On 3 mei, 14:25, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> In article <9556e87f-32c3-4995-b165-8ddbe1287698
> >> @h1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, eddyster...@hotmail.com says...
>
> >> > > If this thing is as good as it looks, then Sid Meier continues in his
> >> > > Godhood.
>
> >> > My definition of irony just changed. The guy who has a knee-jerk
> >> > reaction to boardgame ports suddenly professing a liking for the guy
> >> > who's done nothing but porting boardgames to the digital platform :)
>
> >> Wrong. He's done nothing but take boardgames and turn them into proper
> >> computer games.
>
> >> PIRATES, for example, is a perfect, canonical example of a properly
> >> designed computer game.
>
> >Merchants & Marauders
>
> >http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25292/merchants-marauders
>
> I don't see where you're going with that comment but I'm reasonably
> sure that once you get there, you're gonna look pretty stupid. :p

I don't mind :)

> The idea for Pirates might have come from a boardgame ( I don't know
> if it did or not) but the actual mechanics of the game are about as
> far removed from a board game as you can get.

Now, that's something that I find pretty funny because I have played
Pirates and I have played M&M which basically is Pirates - The
Boardgame without the developers having to pay the licence fee :)

But what I find *really* hilarious is that the poster boy for anti-
boardgameyness professes his liking of Ace Patrol which looks
*exactly* like our table boardgamey games of hexified Wings of War -
http://www.nirya.be/snv/rules/wings_of_war_hexified_1.html

Reminds me of a kid who won't eat broccoli, but when his mother tells
him it's green candy, asks for seconds :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Frank E]

On Mon, 6 May 2013 06:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "eddys...@hotmail.com"
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> The idea for Pirates might have come from a boardgame ( I don't know
>> if it did or not) but the actual mechanics of the game are about as
>> far removed from a board game as you can get.
>
>Now, that's something that I find pretty funny because I have played
>Pirates and I have played M&M which basically is Pirates - The
>Boardgame without the developers having to pay the licence fee :)

I don't see how any of the main elements would translate well to a
board game. I'd consider the main elements of Pirates as sword
fighting, real time naval and land combat, courting the governors'
daughters and trading/coquest with a simulation running in the
background determining prices and ownership of the different colonies.
You could do the combat as turn based I guess but it wouldn't feel
similar, the rest doesn't translate.

Rgds, Frank

[Mike Kreuzer]

On 3/05/2013 8:35 AM, Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <ba607a42-0171-4399-99fb-8ed637dd9755
> @k8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
>> Shades of Wings of War, but it's a brand new WW1 air combat game
>> designed by Sid Meier
>>
>> http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/01/ace-patrol-developer-demo
>
> Sold. ACHTUNG, SPITFIRE! meets Sid Meier on the iPad. Looks brilliant,
> and the pricing is spot-on; free to start with, campaigns going for
> $0.99 or $1.99.
>
> Buy. Day one.
>

Nice stuff - and the base game (ie demo) is free - you can buy
missions/expansions/whatever later if it tickles your fancy. Going to
get this one too, looks like it could be the bit-more-lightweight ipad
set wargame done right.

Fingers crossed.

Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com

[Mike Kreuzer]

On 3/05/2013 9:35 AM, dougb wrote:
> I wish they'd port Sid's Old Nato Commander - god I loved that game.
>
> Doug
>

+1. <g>

Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com

[Mike Kreuzer]

On 3/05/2013 8:35 AM, Giftzwerg wrote:

> In article <ba607a42-0171-4399-99fb-8ed637dd9755
> @k8g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
>> Shades of Wings of War, but it's a brand new WW1 air combat game
>> designed by Sid Meier
>>
>> http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/01/ace-patrol-developer-demo
>
> Sold. ACHTUNG, SPITFIRE! meets Sid Meier on the iPad. Looks brilliant,
> and the pricing is spot-on; free to start with, campaigns going for
> $0.99 or $1.99.
>
> Buy. Day one.
>

Nice stuff - and the base game (ie demo) is free - you can buy

missions/expamsions/whatever later if it tickles your fancy. Going to

[Mike Kreuzer]

LOL - I give up, draft of the other post before I spellcheckerrrred. Sigh.

Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com

[Bafometto]

+2
I literally consumed the cassette (!) in my old Commodore 64.


"Mike Kreuzer" <mi...@FIRSTNAMEkreuzer.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:kmacm4$sc0$2...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Holdit]

In article <kmacm4$sc0$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, mi...@FIRSTNAMEkreuzer.com
says...

> On 3/05/2013 9:35 AM, dougb wrote:
> > I wish they'd port Sid's Old Nato Commander - god I loved that game.
> >
> > Doug
> >
>
> +1. <g>
>

I never realised that was a Sid Meier game. Ah, the memories...that
British brigade that always got chewed up on day #1, trying in vain to
get a nuclear release...

Holdit



--
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others
of whom I made the most careful and particular enquiry."
- Thucydides (Peloponnesian War)

"I've just jazzed mine up a little."
- Spike Milligan (World War 2)

[dougb]

Loved that Nato Commander Game - didn't he also make one's for Normandy and the Western Desert or is that just my imagination running riot again?

I played the hell out of his Gettysburg game as well - the man just has a knack for knowing what to stick in the design and what to throw out. I'd love for him to have a go at designing a Russian Front level game.

Doug

[Frank E]

On Tue, 7 May 2013 06:38:02 -0700 (PDT), dougb
<douglas...@rogers.com> wrote:

>Loved that Nato Commander Game - didn't he also make one's for Normandy and the Western Desert or is that just my imagination running riot again?

Crusade in Europe and Decision in the Desert. I played the hell out of
those games in college. I think there was also a Vietnam one but I
never owned it.

My personal favorite SM game from back in the day would be Red Storm
Rising.

Rgds, Frank

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 7 mei, 15:38, dougb <douglasbrun...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Loved that Nato Commander Game -

Probably the first wargame I played on a computer - a buddy of mine
had a C64 and we played this game for hours.

> the man just has a knack for knowing what to stick in the design and what to throw out.  I'd love for him to have a go at designing a Russian Front level game.

You can say that again - the "knowing what to throw out" part - hist
games are streamlined to the bare essentials and then just enough
chrome gets added in again.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Giftzwerg]

In article <TxeJUcjHwDz6Bd...@4ax.com>,
fakea...@hotmail.com says...

> My personal favorite SM game from back in the day would be Red Storm
> Rising.

RSR is one of my favorite all-time games. Played it until the floppy
disk *literally* came apart.

I also liked SWORD OF THE SAMURAI and COVERT ACTION, to name just a
couple of the less-known ones. GUNSHIP, F-15 STRIKE EAGLE, SILENT
SERVICE ...

... maybe it would be easier to just list the ones I went "meh" about; I
even liked SIMGOLF.

[Frank E]

On Tue, 7 May 2013 12:19:32 -0400, Giftzwerg
<giftzw...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In article <TxeJUcjHwDz6Bd...@4ax.com>,
>fakea...@hotmail.com says...
>
>> My personal favorite SM game from back in the day would be Red Storm
>> Rising.
>
>RSR is one of my favorite all-time games. Played it until the floppy
>disk *literally* came apart.
>
>I also liked SWORD OF THE SAMURAI and COVERT ACTION, to name just a
>couple of the less-known ones. GUNSHIP, F-15 STRIKE EAGLE, SILENT
>SERVICE ...

Lots of good games in that list, another one I really liked was F-19
Stealth fighter. It was a different style of flight simulator where
you couldn't just blow up everything you ran across. I also recall
playing a lot of Gunship.

Not sure how many of the simulators SM was involved in though.

>... maybe it would be easier to just list the ones I went "meh" about; I
>even liked SIMGOLF.

Covert Action and M1 Tank Platoon were 2 that I never got into.

Still, I'd be hard pressed to think of a publisher that's come out
with more, consistently-good games than MicroProse.

Rgds, Frank

[Holdit]

In article <MPG.2bf2f3a09...@news-east.giganews.com>,
giftzw...@hotmail.com says...

>
> In article <TxeJUcjHwDz6Bd...@4ax.com>,
> fakea...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > My personal favorite SM game from back in the day would be Red Storm
> > Rising.
>
> RSR is one of my favorite all-time games. Played it until the floppy
> disk *literally* came apart.
>
> I also liked SWORD OF THE SAMURAI and COVERT ACTION, to name just a
> couple of the less-known ones. GUNSHIP, F-15 STRIKE EAGLE, SILENT
> SERVICE ...
>
> ... maybe it would be easier to just list the ones I went "meh" about; I
> even liked SIMGOLF.

I remember hinking how brilliant F-15 Strike Eagle was, even if all you
ever bombed was a big triangle. Silent Service was a classic...ahead of
its time perhaps...even if you could take regularly on destoyers with a
deck gun and win.

[Giftzwerg]

In article <MPG.2bf3752b9...@news-europe.giganews.com>,
holdit...@indigoTHE.ieCAPS says...

> > ... maybe it would be easier to just list the ones I went "meh" about; I
> > even liked SIMGOLF.
>
>
> I remember hinking how brilliant F-15 Strike Eagle was, even if all you
> ever bombed was a big triangle. Silent Service was a classic...ahead of
> its time perhaps...even if you could take regularly on destoyers with a
> deck gun and win.

In Epyx's SUB BATTLE SIMULATOR, you could surface your VIIC U-boot, run
out the deck gun, and sink a KING GEORGE V class battleship. It took a
lot o' shootin', but talk about David kakking out Goliath.

[Pelle Nilsson]

I sold my copy of the boardgame, barely played, because of the free
movement. A version with a hex map sounds great to me, even if I have to
borrow the SO's iPad to play.

--
/Pelle

[Mark Bestley]

I agree with the issue of free movement (note that it is not free
movement as such but exactly as in Ace Patrol with the issue but non
exact movement and very fiddly to move when planes get close) so the IOS
version is nice but as I have an iPhone - not that nice to play, it
works well but I want to see more.

As for face to face I went back to Blue Max which is very similar but
uses hexes (an online versiom is <http://www.youplay.it/> or the
improved version Canvas Eagles <http://www.eaglesmax.com/>

--
Mark

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 20 mei, 12:53, ne...@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) wrote:
>
> As for face to face I went back to Blue Max which is very similar but
> uses hexes (an online versiom is <http://www.youplay.it/> or the
> improved version Canvas Eagles <http://www.eaglesmax.com/>

Just to be complete : if your taste in air warfare is more WWII
oriented, give Check your Six a try for FTF gaming - it's a bit more
involved, but not overly complex and with an emphasis on pilot skill.
It's hex based, so no fiddly measuring required. With all this talk
about airl warfare it's no wonder I've got a game of it lined up for
tonight :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[eddys...@hotmail.com]

On 7 mei, 22:32, Holdit <holditREM...@indigoTHE.ieCAPS> wrote:
>
> I remember hinking how brilliant F-15 Strike Eagle was, even if all you
> ever bombed was a big triangle.

Sweaty palms time every time - I think this was the game I bought my
first joystick for.

> Silent Service was a classic...ahead of
> its time perhaps...even if you could take regularly on destoyers with a
> deck gun and win.

I've even once seen a friend take on a destroyer by going straight at
it *on the surface* and launching a single torpedo which managed to
hit and sink the oncoming destroyer.

I only played the long campaign which was all about preserving fuel
and torpedoes. Hit the tanker/supply ship once, wait for it to fall
behind the rest of the convoy, then finish it off with the deck gun. I
had my favourite hunting spots on the map where I would run silent,
run deep :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx