HoI3 is up at gamersgate
Mike Kreuzer
logistic system ever in a strategy game." (!!)
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-HOI3/hearts-of-iron-3
$39.99
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
eddys...@hotmail.com
> I almost titled this OT. The add does say though, "The first realistic
> logistic system ever in a strategy game." (!!)
If they're not tracking the water spend cooking the pasta for Italian
troops, it's not a logistical system :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Bloodstar
> troops, it's not a logistical system :)
They have numbers of cheese from Parma called Parmegiani :o)))))
Miowarra Tomokatu (aka Tomo)
And how does their Nutritional Value Factor (NVF) stack up against the
French Roquefort??
Werewolf
The system requirements state Radeon X1900 for video. Does that mean
HOI3 won't run with a X1600Pro?
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> The system requirements state Radeon X1900 for video. Does that mean
> HOI3 won't run with a X1600Pro?
It'll end my interest if it does, I'm running an X1650 Pro and I'm not
sure it's that much more powerful than your X1650 Pro.
Much as I enjoyed HOI2, HOI3 just isn't a 'spend money I don't have to
upgrade my machine so I can run it' game. Still, at least they've put
out a demo so I'll know if it'll work or not for sure.
--
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
nos...@jades.org /is/ a real email address!
Ralph Hoenig
There seem to be some major issues with the game.
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
"Graham Thurlwell" <nos...@jades.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:410ccb87...@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com...
Mike Kreuzer
news:h5kt7e$3ve$02$1...@news.t-online.com...
> I�d suggest checking their forum before buying.
> There seem to be some major issues with the game.
>
> Ralph Hoenig, Germany
OTOH, it's how paradox always works. Plus there are some simple fixes
apparently, eg:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418002
Reading a company forum where people aren't summarily deleted for
complaining is refreshing I have to say.
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
Vincenzo Beretta
>
> Reading a company forum where people aren't summarily deleted for
> complaining is refreshing I have to say.
Pity that it is not the case here: a thread where they attempted to identify
and correct the errors on the main map was nuked after a day or so.
eddys...@hotmail.com
I'm not getting a lot of things surrounding this game. Oh, I do
understand them nuking that thread as it made them look *really*
ridiculous and amateurish - which they are.
What I'm not getting is that people buy this game *knowing* there are
a couple of game-killing bugs in there, essentially rewarding Paradox
for releasing a game in a crappy state. What brain-altering substances
are they on ? Do they buy rotten fruit at the supermarket as well ? Do
they drive around in Trabants ?
I keep my finger on the pulse in tabletop and boardgaming and there
production values go up & up each year with even the proverbial one-
man outfit releasing quality stuff. They wouldn't dream of releasing
beta-level products like HoI3 or E:TW just to name a few.
Publish now, patch it later seems almost to be the default modus
operandus of some companies. I'm really sick of this and I'm equally
sick of those zombies who keep buying the crappy stuff they produce on
day-1. It's their money which ensures that the *next* Paradox release
will be - if that's entirely possible - even crappier.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Bloodstar
> understand them nuking that thread as it made them look *really*
> ridiculous and amateurish - which they are.
>
> What I'm not getting is that people buy this game *knowing* there are
> a couple of game-killing bugs in there, essentially rewarding Paradox
> for releasing a game in a crappy state. What brain-altering substances
> are they on ? Do they buy rotten fruit at the supermarket as well ? Do
> they drive around in Trabants ?
>
> I keep my finger on the pulse in tabletop and boardgaming and there
> production values go up & up each year with even the proverbial one-
> man outfit releasing quality stuff. They wouldn't dream of releasing
> beta-level products like HoI3 or E:TW just to name a few.
>
> Publish now, patch it later seems almost to be the default modus
> operandus of some companies. I'm really sick of this and I'm equally
> sick of those zombies who keep buying the crappy stuff they produce on
> day-1. It's their money which ensures that the *next* Paradox release
> will be - if that's entirely possible - even crappier.
You are an idiot. Who are you to tell people when they are supposed to buy
their games with their money?
It's my money, not yours.
Maybe you are just jealous on success of HoI 3 :o)))))
Game is excellent. Yes there are some problems but anyway I am still reading
strategy guide. You see, I don't need to play game right away but I
preordered it and I will play it once I read some stuff.
BTW, you didn't bought the game so SHUT THE FUCK UP! Put your money where
your mouth is or don't comment at all! CHEAP Imbecile!
Ralph Hoenig
"Bloodstar" <george.w...@microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:h5oo5k$4d8$1...@sunce.iskon.hr...
>
> Game is excellent. Yes there are some problems but anyway I am still
> reading strategy guide. You see, I don't need to play game right away but
> I preordered it and I will play it once I read some stuff.
>
> BTW, you didn't bought the game so SHUT THE FUCK UP! Put your money where
> your mouth is or don't comment at all! CHEAP Imbecile!
>
>
>
>
Well, I have (preordered, still waiting for arrival, that is) so I am
allowed to speak, yes?
I pretty much agree with Eddy on this (and I have said so on the Paradox
forum)
No other business could afford stuff computergame companies pull off on a
regular
basis.
Here are two posts, I made at their forum, because I�m too lazy to type it a
second time :)
----------------------
PS (and this is in no way directed at Pdox in particular but at the whole
software industry):
The main reson, I think, why software companies are pretty much the only
ones that put bug ridden/non functioning products out on the market is, now
it comes:
WE LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!
Yeah, guilty as charged, mea culpa
Any other idustry trying stuff like that would be sued to kingdom come
(especially in the US, I gather)
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
------------------------------
What If I payed with money that, while technicaly is money, you can�t
actually use it because, well, it�s all new, I just got it from the bank,
which just got it from printing, so there are a few issues we have to solve
first. But don�t you worry, you just have to wait 3 to 6 months for a
"patch" so you can actually spent it?
Imagin the sreaming and shouting and the cops showing up on my doorstep
Ok, I�m exagerating, but this is how I am starting to feel towards the lot
of them.
That�s the bottom line
If I am paying with good money, I am expecting a good product.
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
----------------------------
However, I�d like to put this post from there here (not one of my own,
obviously), not to pick on them, just because of the laugh I got out of it
:)
----------------------------------------
Well, I have an even better story.
In my USA game in May 1940 Japan joined the Allies while at war with China.
Two weeks later Nationalist China joined the Allies too.
So now Japan and Nat. China are in the Allies faction and fight each other.
Com. China is allied with Nat. China but has joined the Comintern.
But it gets even better!
Another two weeks later I got the message that I'm now the leader in our war
against Japan.
So now Japan is at war with all the Allies while it is part of the Allies
itself!
Plus I can see all their troops and movements.
Obviously some kind of a crazy bug.
Now I only wait for the Soviet Union to declare war on Japan. And then again
the Allies would be at war with the Russians too although we haven't done
anything to them.
Well, maybe that's just Paradox' idea of a worldwide war: total chaos and
anarchy...
Greets
Mac
----------------------------------
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
Bloodstar
New HQ system, theatre system, more provinces, sprite packs (if I get them
to work! and zoomed out are counters), there is also improvent in every
other aspect of the game.
Like you, I don't really like too much ahistorical game but I think if you
act along with history you can at least bring to your camp those forces that
were with Germany for example and some others hehe).
OK, I like the game, some don't...
BTW, games has really become very big and they cannot be tested 100% before
release. Yes, cliche but true I think.
Back to HoI 3.... sorry but me likes it :)))
Mario
eddys...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> "Bloodstar" <george.washing...@microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:h5oo5k$4d8$1...@sunce.iskon.hr...
>
>
>
> > Game is excellent. Yes there are some problems but anyway I am still
> > reading strategy guide. You see, I don't need to play game right away but
> > I preordered it and I will play it once I read some stuff.
>
> > BTW, you didn't bought the game so SHUT THE FUCK UP! Put your money where
> > your mouth is or don't comment at all! CHEAP Imbecile!
>
> Well, I have (preordered, still waiting for arrival, that is) so I am
> allowed to speak, yes?
>
> I pretty much agree with Eddy on this (and I have said so on the Paradox
> forum)
>
> No other business could afford stuff computergame companies pull off on a
> regular
> basis.
>
> Here are two posts, I made at their forum, because I´m too lazy to type it a
> second time :)
>
> ----------------------
> PS (and this is in no way directed at Pdox in particular but at the whole
> software industry):
> The main reson, I think, why software companies are pretty much the only
> ones that put bug ridden/non functioning products out on the market is, now
> it comes:
>
> WE LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!
Bingo - and I'm just as guilty here as most, buying into the hype
surrounding some releases, but now I've drawn the line. Not me, not
anymore. If there's a demo I'll evaluate it on that basis. People
saying that the demo sucked, but the game is ok will be ignored as
chances are that a company putting out a bad demo isn't smart enough
to do any better in their 1.0 release. If there's no demo I'll follow
the forums for a while - and by then the urge to get the new game is
usually gone given the appallingly below-average quality of most new
stuff.
In case you hadn't noticed : I'm seriously disgruntled with the state
of pc wargaming in general and am spending more money on boardgames
and tabletop rules these days. Basically, I'm not rewarding crap
anymore. Some minor bugs are allowed, but a 1.0 game simply has to
work - no excuses, no exceptions.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
d9b32c...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com
says...
> Some minor bugs are allowed, but a 1.0 game simply has to
> work - no excuses, no exceptions.
But wouldn't this be a 3.0 game?
--
Giftzwerg
***
"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American"
- Nancy Pelosi
"As any conservative who has ever tried to give a speech on an American
university campus could attest."
- polonius47
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <ea32f29d-e336-4007-b250-
> d9b32c629...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, eddyster...@hotmail.com
> says...
>
> > Some minor bugs are allowed, but a 1.0 game simply has to
> > work - no excuses, no exceptions.
>
> But wouldn't this be a 3.0 game?
Some pundits claim Paradox only made 1 game ever and just keeps fixing
the bugs and repackaging it, which would make it version 15.0 :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Ralph Hoenig
<eddys...@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:c06b9b63-e2ee-40cd...@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Well, that is definitely not true with HOI-3 (yes, it uses the EU3 engine,
so what?)
I have to say, I realy love the concept.
The chain of command is what I dreamed of when I played HOI-2, the large
number of provinces makes manouvering your troops much more important and
diplomacy means something now.
The execution isn�t all that great, however (this is all IMO, obviously, and
only from what I read at the Pdox forum and the demo, as I havent got my
disks yet)
A) The Map
I realy can�t understand those errors.
There are basicly hundreds of people out there, that would gladly point out
any flaw on the map (and that did so in the various Developer Diaries and
the demo)
Whenever I read someone saying: This citiy or that city is not on the right
place, the answer was: It�s an Alpha/early Beta screenshot, don�t you worry!
Bullshit, nothing got fixed.
B) Bugs
The game was released on friday.
1.1 patch was released yesterday, i.e. monday.
Is anyone honestly arguing that the game wasn�t rushed out?
C) The AI/diplomacy
When in "hands off" games, Japan joins the allies or the comintern, Mexico
does a D-Day landing or Denmark DOWs Albania (or was it Norway?) something
is definitely off.
There is simply no imaginable way, this could have passed beta testing
unnoticed which leaves me with the conclusion that a deliberate decision was
made, to put the game out despite of that.
Now, I am pretty sure, most of those issues (not sure with the map though)
will be fixed with time but come on.
From a customer point of view, this is not tolerable, plain and simple
We have been trained to accept this kind of 1.0 versions and it is up to us
to finally make a stand and say: NO MORE!
The frustrating thing is, as has been mentioned here a couple of times: This
is business as usual for Paradox and for quite many other games companies.
The sequence goes like this:
Pdox releases, what is basicly a beta game.
There is rioting in the streets, Merchantmen sell torches and pitchforks in
front of the Pdox building (Imagine that "Treibe mich selbst in den Ruin
Schnapper" guy (don�t know his name in the english version) from Pratchets
Discworld)
Pdox tries franticly to correct the most glaring bugs while simultaneously
trying to calm down the crowd.
The game gets better, people calm down and play more than scream at Pdox
And then Pdox releases the next game, which is exactly in the same state,
the last one was on release!
I realy don�t get it. Isn�t there anyone who learns from the past?
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
M. Ziegler
> surrounding some releases, but now I've drawn the line. Not me, not
> anymore. If there's a demo I'll evaluate it on that basis. People
> saying that the demo sucked, but the game is ok will be ignored as
> chances are that a company putting out a bad demo isn't smart enough
> to do any better in their 1.0 release. If there's no demo I'll follow
> the forums for a while - and by then the urge to get the new game is
> usually gone given the appallingly below-average quality of most new
> stuff.
>
> In case you hadn't noticed : I'm seriously disgruntled with the state
> of pc wargaming in general and am spending more money on boardgames
> and tabletop rules these days. Basically, I'm not rewarding crap
> anymore. Some minor bugs are allowed, but a 1.0 game simply has to
> work - no excuses, no exceptions.
>
> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx
I tried the demo and what I like, is the HQ AI system. I can tell the
Corps, Armies, Army Groups or the whole Front to attack or to defend
here or there. But before I will buy it, I will wait a few months to see
if the most bugs are patched.
I never buy a 1.0 version game. Some friends bought ARMA2 and Rise of
Flight at release date because of the hype. ARMA2 still has performance
and AI problems and other bugs, ROF too few servers and boring missions.
Michael
eddys...@hotmail.com
> I never buy a 1.0 version game.
I hear this more and more, and it's something game developers should
take into account when releasing a new game.
Release a buggy 1.0 version 4 months too early, get heaps of criticism
and see a big proportion of your potential clients wait until it hits
the bargain bin or put some extra time into polishing the product and
get a lot more $50's from people buying your solid 1.0 game.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> only from what I read at the Pdox forum and the demo, as I havent got my
> disks yet)
> We have been trained to accept this kind of 1.0 versions and it is up to us
> to finally make a stand and say: NO MORE!
I'm not pointing fingers here as I've been guilty of it a lot too, but
reading the quoted text above one can immediatly spot why Paradox is
getting away with it : because people are *still* buying a 1.0 game
from a company which hasn't produced a working 1.0 game in their
entire existence.
> (Imagine that "Treibe mich selbst in den Ruin
> Schnapper" guy (don´t know his name in the english version) from Pratchets
> Discworld)
Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler, the sausage seller, would see a business
opportunity there selling pitchforks and sausages-in-bun to the angry
crowds :)
> And then Pdox releases the next game, which is exactly in the same state,
> the last one was on release!
> I realy don´t get it. Isn´t there anyone who learns from the past?
Over at the GameSquad forum there's a guy who bought the Distant Guns
Basic game, ran into a DRM/licence problem and to solve it bought the
Pro licence. Yes, people are that stupid and as long as these type of
guys have cash to burn software producing companies will get away with
stuff you wouldn't accept from any other business.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> On 11 aug, 08:47, "M. Ziegler" <ziegle...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > I never buy a 1.0 version game.
>
> I hear this more and more, and it's something game developers should
> take into account when releasing a new game.
There must be something in the air, because in a timeframe of 24 hours
both Matrix and Battlefront wrote about the difficulties they're
facing getting bug-free 1.0 games out the door.
Erik Rutins over here :
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2201160
And Steve Grammont over here :
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1150329&postcount=25
Interesting reads, both of them, and as a developer of software myself
I can sympathise with and understand the difficulties they're facing,
but as a consumer I can't help but notice that some developers are
simply better at this than others.
Time to reward those dilligently enough to get a game up to the 99%
stage before release and dump those who think 90% is good enough.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
47e40a...@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com
says...
> Interesting reads, both of them, and as a developer of software myself
> I can sympathise with and understand the difficulties they're facing,
> but as a consumer I can't help but notice that some developers are
> simply better at this than others.
Agreed.
But something I noticed recently ... In another thread, I mentioned that
I recently dug up an old laptop of mine from the late 1990s. It was
running Win98, and had a pile of old DOS-era games on it.
What interests me in a thread about "bugs" is how amazingly *trouble-
free* most software has become. Games are perhaps a lagging indicator
of how good things are getting, mostly due to making more cutting-edge
use of drivers and hardware, but ... stone the crows ... remember how
fucking insane it used to be to get *anything* running right?!?
Think of the shit we used to put up with on *every product*:
Does it use expanded memory? Extended memory? Where should I load
HIMEM.SYS? Aaaaarrrrgh! Still not enough memory! Back to CONFIG.SYS
and AUTOEXEC.BAT to diddle-dick some more settings around. Aaaaaaargh!
Now my new game works ... but WordPerfect is fucked!!!
I used to own whole books on how to jiggery-poke MS-DOS such that this
or that program would work right.
[I mean, when was the last time you saw *this*:
"Abort, Retry, Fail?"
NONE OF THESE HELPED IN ANY WAY. EVER.]
Nowadays, the general experience with almost all software is clicking on
an installer button, watching the progress bar fill up, and start
playing the game.
Last week, I DL'd the MOTHERSHIP ZETA expansion for FALLOUT3 - already
as huge and complex a game as I can imagine - and encountered the first
bug in the game; a texture beyond some colored smoke was rendering as a
solid yellow panel. I've played that game (off and on) almost a year
now, have modded it left and right, and installed three expansions, and
this is the first "problem" I've seen. And it was a super-minor one.
Not to excuse developers for bad, buggy v1.0 software, but I think a
valid argument can be made around the premise: "We never had it so
good."
eddys...@hotmail.com
> Not to excuse developers for bad, buggy v1.0 software, but I think a
> valid argument can be made around the premise: "We never had it so
> good."
... getting the thing to run in the first place.
But that is not an achievement for which we need to thank game
developers but the guys behind Windows and the DirectX and OpenGL
API's.
Sure I remember having each game start by running a batch file which
copied a dedicated config.sys and autoexec.bat file over the root
originals and performing a reboot standing on 1 leg and holding up a
coffee mug chanting incantations to the Old Gods *before* one could
play that game and I don't miss the old days at all.
But the bugs I'm talking about are of a different nature : map screw-
ups, non-existing AI, crappy UI, badly implemented features. This is
where I point the finger straight at the game developers, simply
because *other* game developers prove it's possible to consistently
release games which do work in 1.0
Game developers putting the blame entirely on OS and driver
manufacturers are a bit like chefs blaming a failed dish on bad
ingredients. Maybe they were, but they largely picked those
ingredients themselves and I'm sure the "add 3 pounds of lard per
person" in their recipe played a more significant part in the screw-
up.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
> both Matrix and Battlefront wrote about the difficulties they're
> facing getting bug-free 1.0 games out the door.
Well, re: Matrix, the monumental "WitP: AE" is, as far as I can see,
perfectly playable. There are some bugs, and some combat models probably
need refining (there are several complaints about the performances of the
Japanese Zero and of the Japanese night fightning abilities in naval battles
during the early war, for example). This can be justified by the
exponentially greater number of tests that the models undergo once the
product is released to the general crowd. But the game is beign played and
enjoyed by the majority of the crowd as it is, there is a comprehensive list
of issues based on the players' feedback, and a patching program already
set. For a game that has a lifespan of years, this is the best one can do,
IMHO.
[It is worth noticing how Harpoon ANW lies on the other side of such a
scale: the either unability or unwillingness by the team to fix obvious
game-breaking bugs approaches writer's block. I wonder why it is so, but I
stopped caring years ago]
But the sorry state of HOI3 and CM:SF when it was released is unexcusable. A
beta (or even a pre-beta) was basically pushed out of the door. There is no
way for the developers not being aware of this. The only reasons I can see
are either a shortage of cash or the need to meet a deadline with a
third-party publisher (the fear of goping against a competing product being,
for both games, nil). When someone does this, he basically trades a long
term success for a short term advantage - never a winning strategy.
It is true that all Paradox's games were buggy at release, BTW, but they
were playable. HOI3 is truly the deep bottom of the barrel.
Giftzwerg
@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > Not to excuse developers for bad, buggy v1.0 software, but I think a
> > valid argument can be made around the premise: "We never had it so
> > good."
>
> ... getting the thing to run in the first place.
>
> But that is not an achievement for which we need to thank game
> developers but the guys behind Windows and the DirectX and OpenGL
> API's.
Absolutely, you have a point. And you could go a step further by
saying, in counterpoint to Rutins' post, that *developers* never had it
so good.
And I wonder to what extent the game developers who are routinely
successful at building bug-free software enjoy this success *because*
they're writing code that makes full use of the Windows APIs (et al) and
avoid reinventing the wheel. HPS, for example, generally uses standard
Windows dialog boxes and widgets, and I never see people having problems
with their interface. It might not look (or be) as good, but I almost
never have a graphical anomaly in Tiller design.
> Game developers putting the blame entirely on OS and driver
> manufacturers are a bit like chefs blaming a failed dish on bad
> ingredients. Maybe they were, but they largely picked those
> ingredients themselves and I'm sure the "add 3 pounds of lard per
> person" in their recipe played a more significant part in the screw-
> up.
Here I agree with you 10,000%. And with many developers this is their
reflexive response to any problems that crop up on release. Remember
the crashes the CM:SF demo was plagued with? Yah, that's right, they
only neglected to sufficiently test their software with the second most
popular graphics subsystem on the planet.
Giftzwerg
rec...@hotmail.com says...
> [It is worth noticing how Harpoon ANW lies on the other side of such a
> scale: the either unability or unwillingness by the team to fix obvious
> game-breaking bugs approaches writer's block. I wonder why it is so, but I
> stopped caring years ago]
I'm telling ya; it's their business model. If they'd ever fixed the
bugs, consumers would have had no reason whatsoever to purchase new
versions of the game.
Whenever someone mentions AGSI and their customers, I immediately
channel a vision of Lucy van Pelt holding the football for Charlie Brown
to kick.
*This time*, Charlie Brown, you won't end up flat on your ass.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <dda082f8-eef4-40d9-842d-93565a366a63
>
> > > Not to excuse developers for bad, buggy v1.0 software, but I think a
> > > valid argument can be made around the premise: "We never had it so
> > > good."
>
> > ... getting the thing to run in the first place.
>
> > But that is not an achievement for which we need to thank game
> > developers but the guys behind Windows and the DirectX and OpenGL
> > API's.
>
> Absolutely, you have a point. And you could go a step further by
> saying, in counterpoint to Rutins' post, that *developers* never had it
> so good.
I wouldn't go that far - I was a programmer both in the DOS era and
now and it's just that one set of problems has been replaced by a
different set. But a set which an experienced programmer knows and
where there are rock-solid solutions and choices.
> And I wonder to what extent the game developers who are routinely
> successful at building bug-free software enjoy this success *because*
> they're writing code that makes full use of the Windows APIs (et al) and
> avoid reinventing the wheel.
Aha, exactly. But what do we see : developers writing themselves a
custom widget because an *existing* widget only covers 99% of what
they need.
Apart from 3D wargames like Combat Mission, Panzer Campaigns and
Distant Guns there's *zero* need for wargame developers to go beyond
the bog-standard Windows graphics API as defined in Win98SE. Current
hardware makes any 2D game written to the graphics API ludicrously
fast, so why fiddle with DirectX, .Net and Java ?
Ok, there will be limitations with graphics opacity, memory & cpu
usage and such, but write an app to that spec and it'll work on every
pc on the planet.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Mike Kreuzer
news:zncgm.5211$Tq6....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
>> There must be something in the air, because in a timeframe of 24 hours
>> both Matrix and Battlefront wrote about the difficulties they're
>> facing getting bug-free 1.0 games out the door.
>
> Well, re: Matrix, the monumental "WitP: AE" is, as far as I can see,
> perfectly playable. There are some bugs, and some combat models probably
> need refining (there are several complaints about the performances of the
> Japanese Zero and of the Japanese night fightning abilities in naval
> battles during the early war, for example). This can be justified by the
> exponentially greater number of tests that the models undergo once the
> product is released to the general crowd. But the game is beign played and
> enjoyed by the majority of the crowd as it is, there is a comprehensive
> list of issues based on the players' feedback, and a patching program
> already set. For a game that has a lifespan of years, this is the best one
> can do, IMHO.
>
Yes.
Unless it's just my innate military genius (unlikely) I think AE might need
quite the bit of tweaking though. I've been playing the US vs Japanese AI
in the campaign & the computer is bleeding transports. I haven't counted
how many they have, or how many they produce, but I'm not thinking they'll
make it to 45 at this rate, and their losses seem to be accelerating.
Yesterday they lost 15, their highest daily loss so far, but not by much.
> [It is worth noticing how Harpoon ANW lies on the other side of such a
> scale: the either unability or unwillingness by the team to fix obvious
> game-breaking bugs approaches writer's block. I wonder why it is so, but I
> stopped caring years ago]
>
Oh yes.
> But the sorry state of HOI3 and CM:SF when it was released is unexcusable.
> A beta (or even a pre-beta) was basically pushed out of the door. There is
> no way for the developers not being aware of this. The only reasons I can
> see are either a shortage of cash or the need to meet a deadline with a
> third-party publisher (the fear of goping against a competing product
> being, for both games, nil). When someone does this, he basically trades a
> long term success for a short term advantage - never a winning strategy.
>
> It is true that all Paradox's games were buggy at release, BTW, but they
> were playable. HOI3 is truly the deep bottom of the barrel.
>
Yes, SOP for Paradox, but a particularly woeful example of it. Indeed,
maybe the most woeful ... so far.
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
Baska
isn't used more often. You pay little money for essentially a beta and
as the game is perfected, you have to pay more and more for the
polished product. That way you have money up front to finance your
development and sitting on the fence to see if the game will improve
will cost you.
I mean, it is not unique, but certainly not a very common approach in
the gaming world.
Another thing (for me that is) is the digital download. I miss the
physical aspect of (even PC) gaming. In the '90's you used to go to a
shop and buy a big box with a manual + floppies and did have something
in your hands. Specially the big boxes made a pretty sight on your
bookshelf!
Nowadays you DL a game and all you have is a file on your PC. Luckily
Matrix has the DL + physical option, but not all publishers offer
that.
In boardgaming this is one of the main attractions. Lately I received
Lock 'n Load's "Heroes of the Blitzkrieg" and the joy of opening such
a gaming box and looking through the components is an attraction in
itself. Then the pleasure of gaming on a real mapboard with counters
(even when playing solitaire) is a plus when compared with PC gaming.
Maybe it has something to do with the effort you have to make when
playing boardgames: taking the box to the table, choosing a scenario
by reading the booklet, picking up the counters you need, setting up
the game and actually rolling the dice and moving counters. You value
things more when you have to work for them! On a PC you just have to
click a few times to set up a game and click a few times more to play
the game. No real (physical) effort involved. That also makes quitting
a game easier. When playing boardgames, you don't quit so easily
because of the effort you made in setting up the game in the first
place.
Bas
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In boardgaming this is one of the main attractions. Lately I received
> Lock 'n Load's "Heroes of the Blitzkrieg" and the joy of opening such
> a gaming box and looking through the components is an attraction in
> itself. Then the pleasure of gaming on a real mapboard with counters
> (even when playing solitaire) is a plus when compared with PC gaming.
Having an actual physical product in your hand compared to a file on
your hd makes a big difference indeed - "I love the smell of freshly
printed ink in the morning - it smells like ... victory" :)
For anyone wanting to try the game mentioned above here's the link to
the demo :
http://www.locknloadgame.com/_siteFiles/downloads/Vierville-LNL-BOH-PlayDEMO.zip
Basically this is the infantry portion of the full game - you get the
rules, a map, counters and a 6-turn scenario to play - simply print
them out and enjoy :)
As the pc game in development will be almost identical to this it's
almost a demo for the pc game.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
> need
> quite the bit of tweaking though. I've been playing the US vs Japanese AI
> in the campaign & the computer is bleeding transports. I haven't counted
> how many they have, or how many they produce, but I'm not thinking they'll
> make it to 45 at this rate, and their losses seem to be accelerating.
> Yesterday they lost 15, their highest daily loss so far, but not by much.
There are some debates about this in the forums, but, according to the
developers, both the starting number of transports and their production run
are historical. Japan didn't have the warships to cover adequately all the
initial invasions, relying a lot on surprise, and the Allied player, playing
with hindsight, can sink a lot of undefended transports. This is less a
problem in the "Japan Redux" scenario.
An interesting debate about what to do (for example programming the AI so
that it uses a more prudent strategy) is here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2191432
Giftzwerg
@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > In boardgaming this is one of the main attractions. Lately I received
> > Lock 'n Load's "Heroes of the Blitzkrieg" and the joy of opening such
> > a gaming box and looking through the components is an attraction in
> > itself. Then the pleasure of gaming on a real mapboard with counters
> > (even when playing solitaire) is a plus when compared with PC gaming.
>
> Having an actual physical product in your hand compared to a file on
> your hd makes a big difference indeed - "I love the smell of freshly
> printed ink in the morning - it smells like ... victory" :)
And then came the First Flame War Of Wargaming, as appearing on FidoNet:
"Clipping Corners of Counters Considered Harmful."
--
Giftzwerg
***
"BTW - for those Democrats who say they want an 'honest and respectful
debate'... bullshit. If Obama, Pelosi and Reid had their way, the bill
would have been passed and signed by now with no chance of debate."
- DrewM.
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <5d8da129-cdce-4a83-b651-18000acf63e8
>
> > > In boardgaming this is one of the main attractions. Lately I received
> > > Lock 'n Load's "Heroes of the Blitzkrieg" and the joy of opening such
> > > a gaming box and looking through the components is an attraction in
> > > itself. Then the pleasure of gaming on a real mapboard with counters
> > > (even when playing solitaire) is a plus when compared with PC gaming.
>
> > Having an actual physical product in your hand compared to a file on
> > your hd makes a big difference indeed - "I love the smell of freshly
> > printed ink in the morning - it smells like ... victory" :)
>
> And then came the First Flame War Of Wargaming, as appearing on FidoNet:
>
> "Clipping Corners of Counters Considered Harmful."
They solved that already :)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/350268
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > And then came the First Flame War Of Wargaming, as appearing on FidoNet:
> >
> > "Clipping Corners of Counters Considered Harmful."
>
> They solved that already :)
>
> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/350268
Which illustrates another boardgaming pet peeve of mine; if facing
matters, then make sure the counter depicts an overhead view of the
unit.
--
Giftzwerg
***
"It isn't conservative rumors or lies that are stopping healthcare
legislation; it's the justifiable alarm of an electorate that has been
cut out of the loop and is watching its representatives construct a
tangled labyrinth for others but not for themselves. No, the airheads of
Congress will keep their own plush healthcare plan - it's the rest of us
guinea pigs who will be thrown to the wolves."
- Camille Paglia
eddys...@hotmail.com
> In article <bc4aec29-943b-4e22-a99b-c3ababad8724
>
> > > And then came the First Flame War Of Wargaming, as appearing on FidoNet:
>
> > > "Clipping Corners of Counters Considered Harmful."
>
> > They solved that already :)
>
> >http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/350268
>
> Which illustrates another boardgaming pet peeve of mine; if facing
> matters, then make sure the counter depicts an overhead view of the
> unit.
It also illustrates a pc wargaming pet peeve of mine : even the 30
year old counter on the right is graphically better than what I see in
half of the wargames on my pc. Never mind the middle counter, which is
the one I was referring to originally.
Yeah, I know : 72 dpi versus 300 dpi, but if free amateur produced
Vassal modules for boardgames start to look better than what pc
wargame developers can give me for my $50 I'd say there's a problem
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > Which illustrates another boardgaming pet peeve of mine; if facing
> > matters, then make sure the counter depicts an overhead view of the
> > unit.
>
> It also illustrates a pc wargaming pet peeve of mine : even the 30
> year old counter on the right is graphically better than what I see in
> half of the wargames on my pc. Never mind the middle counter, which is
> the one I was referring to originally.
>
> Yeah, I know : 72 dpi versus 300 dpi, but if free amateur produced
> Vassal modules for boardgames start to look better than what pc
> wargame developers can give me for my $50 I'd say there's a problem
There's simply no excuse for this. Photographs look *better* on a nice
display than they do on paper, even with the resolution difference;
there's no reason on earth why game-pieces should look bad.
Mike Kreuzer
There's no hindsight involved, there were enigma decrypts telling where the
ships were, it's just that the AI's advancing beyond its own air cover.
I'm not overly worried, as a bit of a cruiser & sub action fanbois I've
already got my money's worth from this game, & like you I'm sure it'll be
patched sooner or later to be a bit more historical. If the game grinds to a
halt when Japan runs out of merchants in mid 42 (my current estimate) I'll
just restart as Japan & see if I can do better.
The quote in the forum that sums up my feelings so far is:
"The AI is throwing haymakers at me like a drunk. Sometimes even a drunk
gets a punch in. I've been able to hold down the fort, so to speak, but damn
if they don't have me scrambling to assemble SAGs every turn! FUN FUN FUN"
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
Mike Kreuzer
news:5d8da129-cdce-4a83...@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
<ahem> Squad'n'leader. </ahem>
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
eddys...@hotmail.com
> <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>http://www.locknloadgame.com/_siteFiles/downloads/Vierville-LNL-BOH-P...
>
> > Basically this is the infantry portion of the full game - you get the
> > rules, a map, counters and a 6-turn scenario to play - simply print
> > them out and enjoy :)
>
> > As the pc game in development will be almost identical to this it's
> > almost a demo for the pc game.
>
>
Nasty cought there - not entirely sure what your point is though.
... and to continue with the boardgame theme : if you want a Squad
Leader type of game which is both extremely good and entirely free to
print & play
http://www.valorandvictory.com/
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Mike Kreuzer
news:ef18d556-031e-42a6...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Good find. Now, translating the cough:
I have a cupboard full of unplayed-any-more ASL, so I'm not really in the
market for the tabletop version, but I do plan on getting the PC one when it
comes out.
Found this blog entry about the shortcomings of the system interesting:
http://homepage.mac.com/c_farrell/iblog/C1070818615/E20060122151037/index.html
Haven't got around to playing with the free scenario yet though.
(OK, it was a long cough. <g>)
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
eddys...@hotmail.com
> <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ef18d556-031e-42a6...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 13 aug, 00:10, "Mike Kreuzer" <m...@FIRSTNAMEkreuzer.com> wrote:
> >> <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>http://www.locknloadgame.com/_siteFiles/downloads/Vierville-LNL-BOH-P...
>
> >> > Basically this is the infantry portion of the full game - you get the
> >> > rules, a map, counters and a 6-turn scenario to play - simply print
> >> > them out and enjoy :)
>
> >> > As the pc game in development will be almost identical to this it's
> >> > almost a demo for the pc game.
>
> >> <ahem> Squad'n'leader. </ahem>
>
> > Nasty cought there - not entirely sure what your point is though.
>
> > ... and to continue with the boardgame theme : if you want a Squad
> > Leader type of game which is both extremely good and entirely free to
> > print & play
>
> >http://www.valorandvictory.com/
>
> > Greetz,
>
> > Eddy Sterckx
>
> Good find. Now, translating the cough:
>
> I have a cupboard full of unplayed-any-more ASL, so I'm not really in the
> market for the tabletop version, but I do plan on getting the PC one when it
> comes out.
>
> Found this blog entry about the shortcomings of the system interesting:
>
IIRC the Valor & Victory game handles this through an "overwatch"
order you can give to your MG squads, any enemy unit then entering
their fire-arc and range gets shot at. An elegant solution to the
problem not requiring much in special rules.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Mike Kreuzer
news:83622593-3d26-40fa...@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Seems to have fire lane rules that are a <ahem> homage to ASL's. Will check
it out though, I like the freeware game idea, well done to him.
Regards,
Mike Kreuzer
www.mikekreuzer.com
eddys...@hotmail.com
>
> Seems to have fire lane rules that are a <ahem> homage to ASL's. Will check
> it out though, I like the freeware game idea, well done to him.
Came across it when it was first released - there was just one
scenario then - I printed it out and it looked really good. Now every
6 months or so I remember that site and check it out again, and every
time there's a boatload of changes and new scenarios/maps. Need to
send that guy a mail to encourage him a bit because I really like his
stuff - it's so well made that I wonder why it hasn't been picked up
yet by a boardgame publisher.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
says...
> > IIRC the Valor & Victory game handles this through an "overwatch"
> > order you can give to your MG squads, any enemy unit then entering
> > their fire-arc and range gets shot at. An elegant solution to the
> > problem not requiring much in special rules.
> Seems to have fire lane rules that are a <ahem> homage to ASL's. Will check
> it out though, I like the freeware game idea, well done to him.
Homage? Even the graphics of these games look like a straightforward
ripoff of SQUAD LEADER. Ooooh, a leader with a -1 printed on his
counter!
Shit, might as well have named him Sgt. Stites.
Graham Thurlwell
wrote:
> "Graham Thurlwell" <nos...@jades.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:410ccb87...@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com...
>> Much as I enjoyed HOI2, HOI3 just isn't a 'spend money I don't have to
>> upgrade my machine so I can run it' game. Still, at least they've put
>> out a demo so I'll know if it'll work or not for sure.
> I�d suggest checking their forum before buying.
> There seem to be some major issues with the game.
Demo's 615MB. Tried downloading it at the library yesterday but ran
out of time. Anyone know whether it's available on a cover CD or
something?
--
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The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
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