OT: Beta Bulge Bash
eddys...@hotmail.com
Now that the Panther Boys are feaverishly working towards getting COTA
gold and out the door it was decided by the more lazy part of the
beta-team that this would be a good time to go AWOL on them by taking
part in a recce mission of the Ardennes. The official reason was to get
a good feel of the terrain in preparation for the Bulge game but the
real reasons varied from a chance to eat some Belgian fries to finding
some new Karp fishing spots.
As base camp was near the Waterloo battlefield Friday afternoon was
spend there. Everyone was truly amazed at how small that battlefield
really is : 3 km wide by maybe 1.5 km deep. Climbing the 291 stairs to
the top of the artificial hill erected at the site posed no major
problems though Ray kept looking for an elevator sign.
Saturday saw us checking out some remains of the Westwall near Monschau
- Dragon teeth and bunkers, a hike through the woods in Hollerath
following Rollbahn A (the most northern of the 6th Panzer Army's
roads of advance) a look at what this "Losheim gap" really is, and
then Peiper's trail - following the exact route Kampfgruppe Peiper
took from Germany to Stavelot with Andries "Final_Drive" Verspeeten
as our expert guide. The final daylight hours were spend checking out
the Panther in Grand Menil (it's big) and the King Tiger in La Gleize
(it's even bigger)
Sunday we traveled to Diekirch in Luxemburg to visit the museum there.
3 hours passed in the blink of an eye - the stuff they've got there
is simply amazing, displayed in an abundance bordering on the chaotic.
Time for some Luxemburg fries (which turned out to be Dutch) and a
drive through Wiltz got us to the war memorial in Bastogne. The museum
there was a bit of a letdown after Diekirch, but it still had a nice
selection of uniforms and vehicles. From the top of the war memorial it
became clear how small the Bastogne perimeter actually was and how
close the Germans came to overrunning it.
The Recce team saw some personnel shuffles throughout the long weekend
but consisted of :
Ray Wolfe - Panther Games beta and scenario designer
Mark-Jan "Grouchy" Luppens - Panther Games beta and map creator
Marc Schwanebeck - Matrix Games graphics designer
Andries "Final_Drive" Verspeeten - Panther Games West Front data
design team
Jean-François "JeF" Lucas - Webmaster Unofficial Highway to the
Reich website
Eddy Sterckx - Panther Games beta
A lot of pictures were taken and after some careful editing a selection
was made :
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4124492&a=32176742&f=
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> The final daylight hours were spend checking out
> the Panther in Grand Menil (it's big) and the King Tiger in La Gleize
> (it's even bigger)
It almost looks like both of these machines are still in the same spot
where they ran out of gas in December, 1944.
Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling away
almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?
--
Giftzwerg
***
"It won=3Ft be long before we see 'Free Moussaoui'
signs at moonbat rallies."
- Charles Johnson
eddys...@hotmail.com
Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <1147247948.1...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > The final daylight hours were spend checking out
> > the Panther in Grand Menil (it's big) and the King Tiger in La Gleize
> > (it's even bigger)
>
> It almost looks like both of these machines are still in the same spot
> where they ran out of gas in December, 1944.
Yup, more or less
> Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling away
> almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
> create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?
The cheapest option would have been to sell the scrap metal, but the
locals see it as part of their heritage so they get a fresh coat of
paint every couple of years and some general maintenance. The M3
halftrack in Stavelot even has a little plaque with the names of the
locals who contributed to it's restauration. People in rural areas like
that have a long memory - they haven't forgotten the US contribution to
their liberation unlike some others.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling away
> > almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
> > create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?
>
> The cheapest option would have been to sell the scrap metal, but the
> locals see it as part of their heritage so they get a fresh coat of
> paint every couple of years and some general maintenance. The M3
> halftrack in Stavelot even has a little plaque with the names of the
> locals who contributed to it's restauration. People in rural areas like
> that have a long memory - they haven't forgotten the US contribution to
> their liberation unlike some others.
It's funny, though, that they'd opt for *German* tanks in a WW2 theme
memorial.
Couldn't they find a nice Cromwell or Sherman?
[ASIDE: My father-in-law (the scale-modeling Nazi...) is in town for
family stuff and was looking over my shoulder when I looked at your pix
of the trip. His comment was a laconic:
"Who fucked up the camo job on that Panther? Some housepainter?"]
eddys...@hotmail.com
Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <1147258462....@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling away
> > > almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
> > > create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?
> >
> > The cheapest option would have been to sell the scrap metal, but the
> > locals see it as part of their heritage so they get a fresh coat of
> > paint every couple of years and some general maintenance. The M3
> > halftrack in Stavelot even has a little plaque with the names of the
> > locals who contributed to it's restauration. People in rural areas like
> > that have a long memory - they haven't forgotten the US contribution to
> > their liberation unlike some others.
>
> It's funny, though, that they'd opt for *German* tanks in a WW2 theme
> memorial.
>
> Couldn't they find a nice Cromwell or Sherman?
Allied tanks in such condition were getting repaired, not left behind -
there was still a war going on. The "official" memorials all have
Allied gear, but those small communities just had to make do with what
was left behind by the Germans.
> [ASIDE: My father-in-law (the scale-modeling Nazi...) is in town for
> family stuff and was looking over my shoulder when I looked at your pix
> of the trip. His comment was a laconic:
>
> "Who fucked up the camo job on that Panther? Some housepainter?"]
Yes - and not even a professional housepainter in most cases :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Vincenzo Beretta
> memorial.
With the "Das Reich" SS Division symbol on it, too. Maybe the local law is
less stringent than the German one, but I find unusual for an SS insigna to
be displayed on a "monument".
eddys...@hotmail.com
Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
> > It's funny, though, that they'd opt for *German* tanks in a WW2 theme
> > memorial.
>
> With the "Das Reich" SS Division symbol on it, too. Maybe the local law is
> less stringent than the German one,
It is.
> but I find unusual for an SS insigna to
> be displayed on a "monument".
The other option would be what ? to cover up the historically correct
truth ?
They're little down-to-earth farming communities - people like that can
handle it. Maybe it's just smart business sense as most tourists are
Americans who are more interested in seeing a Panther or King Tiger
than yet-another-Sherman. We're guilty of that too : we went to see the
King Tiger and not the Sherman in La Roche or Clervaux or ...
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > but I find unusual for an SS insigna to
> > be displayed on a "monument".
>
> The other option would be what ? to cover up the historically correct
> truth ?
>
> They're little down-to-earth farming communities - people like that can
> handle it. Maybe it's just smart business sense as most tourists are
> Americans who are more interested in seeing a Panther or King Tiger
> than yet-another-Sherman. We're guilty of that too : we went to see the
> King Tiger and not the Sherman in La Roche or Clervaux or ...
I think what we're trying to express is that, outside a museum
environment, the display of <thing> in a war memorial generally suggests
that <thing> is something the populace recalls fondly or with
admiration. A statue of Washington, for example, suggests, "Here is a
great leader, the father of his country."
But what is the message in this case? "Here is a lethal enemy war
machine that was used to oppress us and kill those who tried to liberate
us?"
It's a bit ... off, like finding a statue of Sherman in Savannah.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Ah, ok - now I get it - don't know why really - I guess it's a case of
"because it was there" - just like the Wailing Wall in Jeruzalem is a
symbol of defeat really. Add to that, that if you live in a country
that at one or more points in time saw the armies of Germany, France,
Spain, Austria-Hungary, The Netherlands, Italy, Russia, Britain and
what not pass over its lands the actual nationality of the symbol
starts to mean less than the event it stands for.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
ray o'hara
"Giftzwerg" <giftzw...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ecba70e...@news-east.giganews.com...
> In article <1147258462....@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling
away
> > > almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
> > > create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?
> >
> > The cheapest option would have been to sell the scrap metal, but the
> > locals see it as part of their heritage so they get a fresh coat of
> > paint every couple of years and some general maintenance. The M3
> > halftrack in Stavelot even has a little plaque with the names of the
> > locals who contributed to it's restauration. People in rural areas like
> > that have a long memory - they haven't forgotten the US contribution to
> > their liberation unlike some others.
>
> It's funny, though, that they'd opt for *German* tanks in a WW2 theme
> memorial.
at 6:30 you wrote the following
"Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling away
almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?"
do you read your own posts?
have you had ice out yet?
ray o'hara
It commemorates an event in the village. they had no dog in the fight but it
happened to them anyway.
there is a memorial in johnstown pennsylavania. and i doubt the flood is a
fondly remembered event.
JP
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147247948.1...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Hi,
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4124492&a=32176742&f=
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Nice Eddy, thanks for the pics.
CaligulasHorse
Giftzwerg wrote:
>
> It's funny, though, that they'd opt for *German* tanks in a WW2 theme
> memorial.
>
> Couldn't they find a nice Cromwell or Sherman?
Maybe just as a kind of trophy?
Miowarra Tomokatu (aka Tomo)
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I haven't been there to see the originals, but I've been aware of them
for years ("After the Battle" mag has had photos of them both taken 50
years apart - yep, they haven't moved) and the sense of the memorial
that I got was "Lest we Forget". Now that may be a sentiment of
remembrance that we in Australia have more than in other places, but
it's even-handed.
There were poor bloody infantry conscripts who didn't want to be there
on *both* sides - they all deserve remembrance.
----------------------------------------------------------------
.
.
I spent a lot of money on booze, fast cars and women - the rest I squandered.
- George Best
ray o'hara
"Miowarra Tomokatu (aka Tomo)" <n...@thistime.net> wrote in message
news:f4m462psa60hna24c...@4ax.com...
the guys is the tanks had places they'd have rather been too.
Dirk Gross
>
> It's a bit ... off, like finding a statue of Sherman in Savannah.
>
> --
> Giftzwerg
> ***
> "It won=3Ft be long before we see 'Free Moussaoui'
> signs at moonbat rallies."
> - Charles Johnson
Or,say, a statue of Lee at Gettysburg?
http://www.planetware.com/picture/gettysburg/virginia-monument-us-pagett17.htm
Displaying tools of war in a battlefield museum has little to do with
preferences over who won.
http://www.bowfin.org/website/about_park/outdoor_exhibits/outdoor_exhibits_frameset.htm
see "kaiten"
Dirk
ray o'hara
"Giftzwerg"> ***
> "It won=3Ft be long before we see 'Free Moussaoui'
> signs at moonbat rallies."
> - Charles Johnson
next one of you rightwingnuts will use that statement as proof the left
wants to free moussaoui.
o'lielly will say ."didja hear that ?"
and then ann coulter will jump in.
that is how all you repugnuts start rumours.
31% approval. you are in a shrinkng minoraty.
Giftzwerg
r...@comcast.net says...
> > > > Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling
> away
> > > > almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
> > > > create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?
> > >
> > > The cheapest option would have been to sell the scrap metal, but the
> > > locals see it as part of their heritage so they get a fresh coat of
> > > paint every couple of years and some general maintenance. The M3
> > > halftrack in Stavelot even has a little plaque with the names of the
> > > locals who contributed to it's restauration. People in rural areas like
> > > that have a long memory - they haven't forgotten the US contribution to
> > > their liberation unlike some others.
> >
> > It's funny, though, that they'd opt for *German* tanks in a WW2 theme
> > memorial.
>
>
>
>
> at 6:30 you wrote the following
> "Perhaps the frugal locals, confronted with a choice between hauling away
> almost 100 tons of rusted metal ... or just plant some flowers and
> create a "War Memorial" ... opted for the latter?"
>
>
>
> do you read your own posts?
>
> have you had ice out yet?
Anyone know what the fuck e.e. dipshit is on about here?
--
Giftzwerg
***
"In the last six months, the U.S. Army is seeing 15 percent more
soldiers re-enlist than expected. This continues a trend that began in
2001. Every year since then, the rate at which existing soldiers have
re-enlisted has increased."
- StrategyPage.com, 4/16/06
"So much for lefty wishful thinking about 'recruitment woes,' eh?"
- Giftzwerg
Giftzwerg
r...@comcast.net says...
> there is a memorial in johnstown pennsylavania. and i doubt the flood is a
> fondly remembered event.
Yeah, but what's on display? A great big granite *wave*?
<laughter>
Giftzwerg
says...
>
> >
> > It's a bit ... off, like finding a statue of Sherman in Savannah.
> Or,say, a statue of Lee at Gettysburg?
> http://www.planetware.com/picture/gettysburg/virginia-monument-us-pagett17.htm
Lee isn't a valid example since even in the North he's revered as a
great leader and man of honor. Even the men who fought against him
could muster no ill will.
Hardly analogous to an SS heavy tank.
> Displaying tools of war in a battlefield museum has little to do with
> preferences over who won.
Which is why I used the phrase "outside of a museum."
Giftzwerg
r...@comcast.net says...
> > "It won't be long before we see 'Free Moussaoui'
> > signs at moonbat rallies."
> > - Charles Johnson
> next one of you rightwingnuts will use that statement as proof the left
> wants to free moussaoui.
I'll post a link to the first photo of such a sign.
> 31% approval. you are in a shrinkng minoraty.
From today's New York Times:
"The political situation has not helped some of the more prominent
members of the Democratic Party. Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts,
who was Mr. Bush's opponent in 2004, had a lower approval rating than
Mr. Bush: 26 percent, down from 40 percent in a poll conducted right
after the election. And just 28 percent said they had a favorable view
of Al Gore, one of Mr. Bush's more vocal critics."
[http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/10/washington/10poll.html?ex=1304913600
&en=b14936161b670908&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss]
And - unlike Bush - these are the guys you moonbats might run for
president *next time out*?
Hahahahahahahahaha!
ray o'hara
> In article <QeCdnf1N6Z1Zrv_Z...@comcast.com>,
> r...@comcast.net says...
>
> > there is a memorial in johnstown pennsylavania. and i doubt the flood is
a
> > fondly remembered event.
>
> Yeah, but what's on display? A great big granite *wave*?
>
> <laughter>
>
a national park with a visitor center and museum.
the buildings of the fish and game club that had the dam built still
stand.
> --
> Giftzwerg
> ***
> "In the last six months, the U.S. Army is seeing 15 percent more
> soldiers re-enlist than expected. This continues a trend that began in
> 2001. Every year since then, the rate at which existing soldiers have
> re-enlisted has increased."
> - StrategyPage.com, 4/16/06
>
> "So much for lefty wishful thinking about 'recruitment woes,' eh?"
> - Giftzwerg
re-enlistinh is different than recruiting.
and what was expected? it is an ambiguous statement that says nothing.
your conclusion does not logically follow.
it is a classic rightwing equation. a=x so bmust be true.
ray o'hara
well idiot, you posted about how it was cheaper to keep the tank that
broke down in the town square than it would to tow it off
then you wonder why they "got" a german tank.
anybody with half a brain might realize they didn't have to "get" the tank
it drove there on its own{during the battle}
damn you are stupid.
Giftzwerg
> > "In the last six months, the U.S. Army is seeing 15 percent more
> > soldiers re-enlist than expected. This continues a trend that began in
> > 2001. Every year since then, the rate at which existing soldiers have
> > re-enlisted has increased."
> > - StrategyPage.com, 4/16/06
> >
> > "So much for lefty wishful thinking about 'recruitment woes,' eh?"
> > - Giftzwerg
> re-enlistinh is different than recruiting.
Nope. Check it, bro:
"The Army achieved 104 percent of its active-duty recruiting role for
March, and the Marine Corps attained 102 percent, with almost 1,700 new
members. The Navy and Air Force both met their monthly goals, recruiting
more than 2,800 sailors and almost 3,200 airmen, respectively.
Reserve and National Guard recruiting remained strong too, particularly
for the Army, which represents 80 percent of the entire reserve-
component force. The Army National Guard exceeded its March goal by 2
percent, recruiting almost 6,700 members, and the Army Reserve attracted
almost 2,300 soldiers, 89 percent of its goal.
The Marine Corps Reserve exceeded its March goal by 22 percent, signing
on 457 new members. The Air Force Reserve achieved 117 percent of its
goal for the second consecutive month, recruiting 722 airmen in March,
and the Air National Guard met its goal, with 834 new recruits. The Navy
Reserve recruited 757 sailors, 87 percent of its goal."
[http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2006/20060410_4777.html]
Had 'nuff? <g>
Giftzwerg
> > Anyone know what the fuck e.e. dipshit is on about here?
> well idiot, you posted about how it was cheaper to keep the tank that
> broke down in the town square than it would to tow it off
> then you wonder why they "got" a german tank.
> anybody with half a brain might realize they didn't have to "get" the tank
> it drove there on its own{during the battle}
Are you seriously this dumb? <rhetorical>
ray o'hara
goals have been lowered the last few years. and it says nothing as to
whether they are meeting there needs. it is just fun with figures and so
much happy talk.
ray o'hara
> In article <RrednXK61sDyE__Z...@comcast.com>,
> r...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > "It won't be long before we see 'Free Moussaoui'
> > > signs at moonbat rallies."
> > > - Charles Johnson
>
> > next one of you rightwingnuts will use that statement as proof the left
> > wants to free moussaoui.
>
> I'll post a link to the first photo of such a sign.
>
> > 31% approval. you are in a shrinkng minoraty.
>
> From today's New York Times:
>
> "The political situation has not helped some of the more prominent
> members of the Democratic Party. Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts,
> who was Mr. Bush's opponent in 2004, had a lower approval rating than
> Mr. Bush: 26 percent, down from 40 percent in a poll conducted right
> after the election. And just 28 percent said they had a favorable view
> of Al Gore, one of Mr. Bush's more vocal critics."
>
> [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/10/washington/10poll.html?ex=1304913600
> &en=b14936161b670908&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss]
>
> And - unlike Bush - these are the guys you moonbats might run for
> president *next time out*?
>
> Hahahahahahahahaha!
>
kerry isn't the president. he isn't nominated for president. so his
approval rating means nothing from people outside massachusetts.
bush's rating impacts every rubberstamp...err... republican running in 08.
ray o'hara
> In article <ucWdnWkVVY_...@comcast.com>, r...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > Anyone know what the fuck e.e. dipshit is on about here?
>
> > well idiot, you posted about how it was cheaper to keep the tank that
> > broke down in the town square than it would to tow it off
> > then you wonder why they "got" a german tank.
>
> > anybody with half a brain might realize they didn't have to "get" the
tank
> > it drove there on its own{during the battle}
>
> Are you seriously this dumb? <rhetorical>
>
typical/ you can't defend your shifting views so you attack.
do you really they went out and bought a tigerII to bring to their town
Are you seriously this dumb? <not rhetorical>
JP
"ray o'hara" <r...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RrednXK61sDyE__Z...@comcast.com...
Lol, one shouldn't accuse others of starting rumors, and then proceed
to do the same themselves in the same "paragraph."
Btw, gotta love Ted's boy; like father, like son. Fortunately, there
wasn't a river and passenger nearby at the time, eh ?
ray o'hara
"JP" <nic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:L7x8g.636$pI6....@eagle.america.net...
>
> "ray o'hara" <r...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RrednXK61sDyE__Z...@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Giftzwerg"> ***
> > > "It won=3Ft be long before we see 'Free Moussaoui'
> > > signs at moonbat rallies."
> > > - Charles Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> > next one of you rightwingnuts will use that statement as proof the left
> > wants to free moussaoui.
> > o'lielly will say ."didja hear that ?"
> > and then ann coulter will jump in.
> > that is how all you repugnuts start rumours.
> >
> >
> > 31% approval. you are in a shrinkng minoraty.
>
>
> Lol, one shouldn't accuse others of starting rumors, and then proceed
> to do the same themselves in the same "paragraph."
>
i didn't start any rumours. i just showed how they start..
> Btw, gotta love Ted's boy; like father, like son. Fortunately, there
> wasn't a river and passenger nearby at the time, eh ?
>
>
yup.
Giftzwerg
> > > re-enlistinh is different than recruiting.
> >
> > Nope. Check it, bro:
> >
> > "The Army achieved 104 percent of its active-duty recruiting role for
> > March, and the Marine Corps attained 102 percent, with almost 1,700 new
> > members. The Navy and Air Force both met their monthly goals, recruiting
> > more than 2,800 sailors and almost 3,200 airmen, respectively.
> >
> > Reserve and National Guard recruiting remained strong too, particularly
> > for the Army, which represents 80 percent of the entire reserve-
> > component force. The Army National Guard exceeded its March goal by 2
> > percent, recruiting almost 6,700 members, and the Army Reserve attracted
> > almost 2,300 soldiers, 89 percent of its goal.
> >
> > The Marine Corps Reserve exceeded its March goal by 22 percent, signing
> > on 457 new members. The Air Force Reserve achieved 117 percent of its
> > goal for the second consecutive month, recruiting 722 airmen in March,
> > and the Air National Guard met its goal, with 834 new recruits. The Navy
> > Reserve recruited 757 sailors, 87 percent of its goal."
> >
> > [http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2006/20060410_4777.html]
> >
> > Had 'nuff? <g>
> >
>
> goals have been lowered the last few years.
Cite?
> and it says nothing as to
> whether they are meeting there needs. it is just fun with figures and so
> much happy talk.
Hmmmm. I guess your half-assed argument here is that the US Military
might just be unaware of its "needs" and may be setting its "goals" in
some willy-nilly fashion?
Nice try, but if you've any evidence that US recruiting is *not* meeting
its "needs," then let's see it, eh?
--
Giftzwerg
***
Giftzwerg
The point is that while the electorate might be disenchanted with Mr.
Bush, they're no less disgusted with <insert moonbat Democrat here>.
This means that Democrats are unlikely to capitalize in any meaningful
fashion with respect to Mr. Bush's current unpopularity.
Giftzwerg
> > > > Anyone know what the fuck e.e. dipshit is on about here?
> >
> > > well idiot, you posted about how it was cheaper to keep the tank that
> > > broke down in the town square than it would to tow it off
> > > then you wonder why they "got" a german tank.
> >
> > > anybody with half a brain might realize they didn't have to "get" the
> tank
> > > it drove there on its own{during the battle}
> >
> > Are you seriously this dumb? <rhetorical>
> >
>
> typical/ you can't defend your shifting views so you attack.
> do you really they went out and bought a tigerII to bring to their town
Bought? Bring? Are you nuts?
Dirk Gross
http://www.batarden.be/
http://www.museum-poteau44.be/
I don't see any vehicles at the memorial:
http://www.bastogne.be/60eme/eng/memorial_eng.htm
Dirk
"Giftzwerg" <giftzw...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ecc5d01c...@news-east.giganews.com...
Giftzwerg
says...
> But that IS at a museum: http://www.december44.com/
Ah. I stand corrected, then. I thought, from the photographs, that the
vehicles were just sorta sitting in the town(s).
--
Giftzwerg
***
"It's pretty pathetic when a Kennedy is too drunk
to drive into the Potomac."
- Ann Coulter
ray o'hara
, . you made the initial claim. you back it up.
show how the goals are not manipulated.
ray o'hara
the reps will be swept out.
ray o'hara
> In article <5JOdnd2Hv_-...@comcast.com>, r...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > > > Anyone know what the fuck e.e. dipshit is on about here?
> > >
> > > > well idiot, you posted about how it was cheaper to keep the tank
that
> > > > broke down in the town square than it would to tow it off
> > > > then you wonder why they "got" a german tank.
> > >
> > > > anybody with half a brain might realize they didn't have to "get"
the
> > tank
> > > > it drove there on its own{during the battle}
> > >
> > > Are you seriously this dumb? <rhetorical>
> > >
> >
> > typical/ you can't defend your shifting views so you attack.
>
> > do you really they went out and bought a tigerII to bring to their town
>
> Bought? Bring? Are you nuts?
>
are you finally getting a clue it ended up there during the battle?
maybr that's why they "chose" to have a tiger tank?
you are an idiot.
eddys...@hotmail.com
Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <suy8g.31673$mh.2...@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>, a...@a.com
> says...
>
> > But that IS at a museum: http://www.december44.com/
>
> Ah. I stand corrected, then. I thought, from the photographs, that the
> vehicles were just sorta sitting in the town(s).
That King Tiger there *is* situated in the centre of the town - across
the church actually - sitting on the side of the the main (and only)
road going through it.
The house behind it is used as a museum, but the King Tiger is not on
museum ground or anything afaik.
Same thing for the Panther at Grand Menil : it's situated at a
crossroads going into town and actually serves as a memorial.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
eddys...@hotmail.com
> I don't see any vehicles at the memorial:
> http://www.bastogne.be/60eme/eng/memorial_eng.htm
The memorial and the museum are just one complex.
The Hetzer used to be outside here as well, but they've recently moved
it inside and build a diorama around it so the only two vehicles
standing outside the museum are a Sherman and a M-10. Inside it's about
even equipment-wise. I don't think anyone objected about the Hetzer
standing there on a "US memorial".
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
ray o'hara
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147329981.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
in ancient times you commemorated your victory by displaying the captured
enemy equipment.
Giftzwerg
> > Nice try, but if you've any evidence that US recruiting is *not* meeting
> > its "needs," then let's see it, eh?
> >
>
> , . you made the initial claim. you back it up.
> show how the goals are not manipulated.
No thanks. I'm simply reporting that recruitment and re-enlistment are
entirely meeting the goals set out by the military. I have no reason to
believe that the goals are improper or unrealistic.
Do you?
Mark Richardson
>
> But what is the message in this case? "Here is a lethal enemy war
> machine that was used to oppress us and kill those who tried to liberate
> us?"
[/lurk]
When I went to La Glieze, the message I got was "Here is one of the most
powerful war machines of the Western Front... which had to be left here
because the Germans ran out of gas". I saw it as a tribute to how
impotent the once mighty German war machine had become in 1944, and the
futility of Wacht am Rhein- an embarrassment, not a celebration of
German military might.
[lurk]
Giftzwerg
r...@comcast.net says...
> > The point is that while the electorate might be disenchanted with Mr.
> > Bush, they're no less disgusted with <insert moonbat Democrat here>.
> > This means that Democrats are unlikely to capitalize in any meaningful
> > fashion with respect to Mr. Bush's current unpopularity.
> >
>
> the reps will be swept out.
<shrug>
They might be. But the problem I have with believing this is that
*everyone* (not just simpletons like you) frames this theory as "the
Republicans will be swept out." Democrats can take little comfort in
the fact that no one is arguing that *they* will be swept *in*.
Giftzwerg
r...@comcast.net says...
> > > do you really they went out and bought a tigerII to bring to their town
> >
> > Bought? Bring? Are you nuts?
> >
>
> are you finally getting a clue it ended up there during the battle?
Finally?
Giftzwerg
eddys...@hotmail.com says...
> > > But that IS at a museum: http://www.december44.com/
> >
> > Ah. I stand corrected, then. I thought, from the photographs, that the
> > vehicles were just sorta sitting in the town(s).
>
> That King Tiger there *is* situated in the centre of the town - across
> the church actually - sitting on the side of the the main (and only)
> road going through it.
>
> The house behind it is used as a museum, but the King Tiger is not on
> museum ground or anything afaik.
>
> Same thing for the Panther at Grand Menil : it's situated at a
> crossroads going into town and actually serves as a memorial.
Ah. Then I remain uncorrected. <g>
Frank E
<giftzw...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote:
>They might be. But the problem I have with believing this is that
>*everyone* (not just simpletons like you) frames this theory as "the
>Republicans will be swept out." Democrats can take little comfort in
>the fact that no one is arguing that *they* will be swept *in*.
When you figure out a way to do one w/o the other, let me know! <g>
Rgds, Frank
eddys...@hotmail.com
Giftzwerg wrote:
> In article <1147326459.9...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> eddys...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > > > But that IS at a museum: http://www.december44.com/
> > >
> > > Ah. I stand corrected, then. I thought, from the photographs, that the
> > > vehicles were just sorta sitting in the town(s).
> >
> > That King Tiger there *is* situated in the centre of the town - across
> > the church actually - sitting on the side of the the main (and only)
> > road going through it.
> >
> > The house behind it is used as a museum, but the King Tiger is not on
> > museum ground or anything afaik.
> >
> > Same thing for the Panther at Grand Menil : it's situated at a
> > crossroads going into town and actually serves as a memorial.
>
> Ah. Then I remain uncorrected. <g>
Correct :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
Giftzwerg
fakea...@hotmail.com says...
> >They might be. But the problem I have with believing this is that
> >*everyone* (not just simpletons like you) frames this theory as "the
> >Republicans will be swept out." Democrats can take little comfort in
> >the fact that no one is arguing that *they* will be swept *in*.
>
> When you figure out a way to do one w/o the other, let me know! <g>
That's a nifty bumper-sticker you've got there, but 2006 isn't going to
be the last election the country holds.
Speaking as a conservative whose only "allegiance" to the Republican
party is that they tend to be decidedly less loathsome than the
increasingly moonbatty Democrats, I'm not sure the very best thing for
long-term conservative prospects wouldn't be a Democratic landslide in
November. Two years of watching Popeye Pelosi try to investigate her
way into power would be a powerful and lasting object lesson in which
side the bread is buttered on.
Frank E
<giftzw...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote:
>Speaking as a conservative whose only "allegiance" to the Republican
>party is that they tend to be decidedly less loathsome than the
>increasingly moonbatty Democrats, I'm not sure the very best thing for
>long-term conservative prospects wouldn't be a Democratic landslide in
>November.
Wouldn't hurt. Republicans appear to be decidedly more conservative
when they don't have access to the purse strings.
>Two years of watching Popeye Pelosi try to investigate her
>way into power would be a powerful and lasting object lesson in which
>side the bread is buttered on.
Would 2 years of Pelosi be enough to make people forget Tom Delay?
Rgds, Frank
ray o'hara
> In article <NOKdnaTiPKQ...@comcast.com>, r...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > Nice try, but if you've any evidence that US recruiting is *not*
meeting
> > > its "needs," then let's see it, eh?
> > >
> >
> > , . you made the initial claim. you back it up.
> > show how the goals are not manipulated.
>
> No thanks. I'm simply reporting that recruitment and re-enlistment are
> entirely meeting the goals set out by the military. I have no reason to
> believe that the goals are improper or unrealistic.
>
> Do you?
their credibility is not that high these days.
of course you still believe that WMDs were found and that saddam planned
9/11.
smr
> news:MPG.1ecc648e9...@news-east.giganews.com...
> > In article <ucWdnWkVVY_...@comcast.com>, r...@comcast.net says...
> >
> > > > Anyone know what the fuck e.e. dipshit is on about here?
> >
> > > well idiot, you posted about how it was cheaper to keep the tank that
> > > broke down in the town square than it would to tow it off
> > > then you wonder why they "got" a german tank.
> >
> > > anybody with half a brain might realize they didn't have to "get" the
> tank
> > > it drove there on its own{during the battle}
> >
> > Are you seriously this dumb? <rhetorical>
> >
>
> typical/ you can't defend your shifting views so you attack.
This from the guy who, when called out about challenging the Army's
recruiting figures, tried to tie in 9/11 and WMD to support his argument?
Fuck you, nutball.
--
smr
Dirk Gross
Dirk
"Giftzwerg" <giftzw...@NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eccea63a...@news-east.giganews.com...
JeF
Now I can really see what I missed on Saturday. :-(
Marc crossing a "river", Ray disabling a KT, Grouchy trying to pierce a
hole in a Bunker : priceless stuff.
BTW: GI jane was in Bastogne, not Diekirch.
JeF.
eddys...@hotmail.com
JeF wrote:
> Thanks for the pics Eddy.
>
> Now I can really see what I missed on Saturday. :-(
> Marc crossing a "river", Ray disabling a KT, Grouchy trying to pierce a
> hole in a Bunker : priceless stuff.
You also missed Marc wanting to check the ironwork on the bunker and
suddenly holding the piece in his hand - German engineering :)
> BTW: GI jane was in Bastogne, not Diekirch.
It's not even the real GI Jane picture I took, that was the *other*
woman in uniform - this one was just a nurse, but I thought nobody
would mind :)
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
ray o'hara
<eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147468426.7...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
the lion mound at waterloo is an abomination that ruined the battlefield.
try that in virginia and you'd get lynched.
Eddy Sterckx
news:wZidndzCUZj...@comcast.com:
> the lion mound at waterloo is an abomination that ruined the
> battlefield.
Blame it on the Dutch :)
I like it actually - from the top you get a real nice feel for the
battlefield wrt the location of all the farms that played a role during
the battle, the smallness of the battlefield and why the approach of
Blücher through Plançenoit wasn't immediatly visible to the French
troops.
> try that in virginia and you'd get lynched.
Nobody objected at the time - it's not like it's the only battlefield in
town in these parts.
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
--
"Ceterum censeo Belgicam delendam esse."
(Cato, 'Pro Gerolphe')
ray o'hara
"Eddy Sterckx" <eddys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97C26CA636762ed...@67.98.68.45...
> "ray o'hara" <r...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:wZidndzCUZj...@comcast.com:
>
> > the lion mound at waterloo is an abomination that ruined the
> > battlefield.
>
> Blame it on the Dutch :)
>
> I like it actually - from the top you get a real nice feel for the
> battlefield wrt the location of all the farms that played a role during
> the battle, the smallness of the battlefield and why the approach of
> Blücher through Plançenoit wasn't immediatly visible to the French
> troops.
>
> > try that in virginia and you'd get lynched.
>
> Nobody objected at the time - it's not like it's the only battlefield in
> town in these parts.
>
not the only by any means. just the most famous and maybe the most
important.
Giftzwerg
fakea...@hotmail.com says...
\
> >Two years of watching Popeye Pelosi try to investigate her
> >way into power would be a powerful and lasting object lesson in which
> >side the bread is buttered on.
>
> Would 2 years of Pelosi be enough to make people forget Tom Delay?
Tom who?
Giftzwerg
r...@comcast.net says...
> > > , . you made the initial claim. you back it up.
> > > show how the goals are not manipulated.
> >
> > No thanks. I'm simply reporting that recruitment and re-enlistment are
> > entirely meeting the goals set out by the military. I have no reason to
> > believe that the goals are improper or unrealistic.
> >
> > Do you?
>
> their credibility is not that high these days.
As opposed to yours?
> of course you still believe that WMDs were found and that saddam planned
> 9/11.
I was never especially interested in either.
ray o'hara
> In article <3rydnRS0p9ib7_7Z...@comcast.com>,
> r...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > > , . you made the initial claim. you back it up.
> > > > show how the goals are not manipulated.
> > >
> > > No thanks. I'm simply reporting that recruitment and re-enlistment
are
> > > entirely meeting the goals set out by the military. I have no reason
to
> > > believe that the goals are improper or unrealistic.
> > >
> > > Do you?
> >
> > their credibility is not that high these days.
>
> As opposed to yours?
>
> > of course you still believe that WMDs were found and that saddam planned
> > 9/11.
>
> I was never especially interested in either.
righto. you just thought the war was a really cool idea and fodder for new
games.
Giftzwerg
> > > of course you still believe that WMDs were found and that saddam planned
> > > 9/11.
> >
> > I was never especially interested in either.
>
> righto. you just thought the war was a really cool idea and fodder for new
> games.
No, I thought Saddam was a towelhead bug that we were right to squash.
I never thought we needed a better reason than that.
ray o'hara
> In article <AfydnUzDItm...@comcast.com>, r...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > > of course you still believe that WMDs were found and that saddam
planned
> > > > 9/11.
> > >
> > > I was never especially interested in either.
> >
> > righto. you just thought the war was a really cool idea and fodder for
new
> > games.
>
> No, I thought Saddam was a towelhead bug that we were right to squash.
> I never thought we needed a better reason than that.
then why not syria?or any of the rest, he is no different than them.
why not north korea, they are a much greater threat. . invading people
because you don't lioke them is not a good enough reason. and to continue to
do so eventually gets the rest of those who fear your to band together to
get you.
we have a lot of one and no legged people now from getting someone you
don't like.
missing legs are the signature wound of this war.
those notes cheney wrote are going to cause him trouble and it severly
undercuts libby's claim he learned of plame from reporters.. and rumours are
swirling about rove getting indicted. fitzgerald spent seeral hours with
roves lawyers on saturday.
it's looking bad for your boys.
Giftzwerg
> > No, I thought Saddam was a towelhead bug that we were right to squash.
> > I never thought we needed a better reason than that.
>
> then why not syria?
You want to invade Syria? Capital idea, says I. I'll make sure we put
you down as a big "YES!" if the question of whether Mr. Bush should
attack Syria appears.
> why not north korea, they are a much greater threat.
Them too? Great! I'll put you down as a decided, "I'M ON BOARD" if Mr.
Bush needs to fuck up the North Koreans.
> . invading people
> because you don't lioke them is not a good enough reason.
Nice try, but Saddam wasn't just some vaguely, can't-quite-put-our-
finger-on-it dislikable soul.
Fuck, stupid, you make him sound like Pee-Wee Hermann.
> and to continue to
> do so eventually gets the rest of those who fear your to band together to
> get you.
Ooooooooo. I'm scared. A whole *bunch* of contemptible little
towelheads might get together and send women and children armed with
dynamite and nails after us.