[BC3K] Will Derek Smart make another game ever again???
\
It's not a flame bait...really...
Just wondering...
Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
and will we want him to?
Jimmy Chan
\\ (con...@mailexcite.com) wrote:
:#It's not a flame bait...really...
:#Just wondering...
:#Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
:# and will we want him to?
I think his blunder isn't really BC3K but his scamming of people. Even if
his game was a failure, he could have easily shut up and just went onto the
next project and most people would never have known or cared that he was
the developer. All the blame would have naturally fell on Take2 but
considering all the hype he was posting about the game before and all the
BS he was dishing out after the game, he screwed up and there are a lot of
people that wouldn't touch any of his projects anymore while there are
still a lot that are willing to believe anything he says.
--
==============================ji...@hawaii.edu===============================
WAR
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:04:01 -0800, "\\" <con...@mailexcite.com>
decided to take finger to keyboard and send:
>It's not a flame bait...really...
>
>
>
>Just wondering...
>
>Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
>
> and will we want him to?
All you have to do is consider one question, and it clears this whole
thing up -- what software publisher in its right mind would ever dare
hire Derek Smart to produce a game given the incredible delays and
legal troubles that have surrounded BC3K?
I think the answer is obvious.
c72...@sp2n17.missouri.edu
\\ (con...@mailexcite.com) wrote:
: It's not a flame bait...really...
: Just wondering...
: Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
He will not be able to make another game until the current one is
an actual finished product. His only hope is to try and scavenge some
remnent of his 'reputation' in the hopes that some worthless publisher
will fall for his lies.
: and will we want him to?
Oh yes! That's the whole point of The Game!
==
Chris Hemme
turnip
\ wrote:
>
> It's not a flame bait...really...
>
> Just wondering...
>
> Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
>
I saw Oupost 2 on the shelves recently on anythings
possible. I believe it was CGW that rated Outpost as the worst
game of all time.
bill.h...@sandiegoca.ncr.com
In article <347B21...@mailexcite.com>,
"\\" <con...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
>
> It's not a flame bait...really...
>
> Just wondering...
>
> Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
>
> and will we want him to?
Derek has always said he wanted to be a game developer and the game he
always wanted to develop was BC3K. I believe in his mind that means he
will not be a gameS developer and ever try to develop another game.
He has made BC3K development a WHOLE career.
I believe it is very unlikely that any publisher will ever sign a new
contract with bc300ad inc. unless Derek can prove the game is
already done first.
It would be sad if the online game came to an end. So, I'd like to
see him continue.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Steve
Jimmy Chan wrote:
>
> \\ (con...@mailexcite.com) wrote:
> :#Just wondering...
> :#Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
> :# and will we want him to?
>
>I think his blunder isn't really BC3K but his scamming of people. Even if
>his game was a failure, he could have easily shut up and just went onto the
>next project and most people would never have known or cared that he was
>the developer.
..and instead of taking this route, he stuck with it and continues to
patch BC3K until it's the way he meant it to be. If he dropped it
entirely then the people who bought 1.0 would've been out of luck with
no hope of ever having a working game... we've seen ENOUGH games
released defective and NOT patched, and to me his actions are welcome
and refreshingly unique. There are very few games where the developer
continues to patch and upgrade without assistance or requirement from
the company selling the game. Gary Grisby and Major Holdridge are two
of the few I know of, and they're certainly outnumbered by developers
that are willing to settle for a game that is merely "adequate" and move
onto the next.
Personally, I'm looking forward to BC3K 2.0 and any of the add-ons that
he's hoping to release for it. Other viewpoints are acknowledged and
respected.
Regards,
-Steve
Jimmy Chan
Steve (Ste...@hotmail.com) wrote:
:#..and instead of taking this route, he stuck with it and continues to
:#patch BC3K until it's the way he meant it to be. If he dropped it
:#entirely then the people who bought 1.0 would've been out of luck with
:#no hope of ever having a working game... we've seen ENOUGH games
How many people did he scam with his hype of the game before its release?
How many others has he scammed with his personal guarantees.
:#Personally, I'm looking forward to BC3K 2.0 and any of the add-ons that
:#he's hoping to release for it. Other viewpoints are acknowledged and
:#respected.
How much can you trust someone who has already admitted lying?
--
==============================ji...@hawaii.edu===============================
bill.h...@sandiegoca.ncr.com
In article <347BDA...@hotmail.com>,
Steve <Ste...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ..and instead of taking this route, he stuck with it and continues to
> patch BC3K until it's the way he meant it to be. If he dropped it
> entirely then the people who bought 1.0 would've been out of luck with
> no hope of ever having a working game... we've seen ENOUGH games
> released defective and NOT patched, and to me his actions are welcome
> and refreshingly unique. There are very few games where the developer
> continues to patch and upgrade without assistance or requirement from
> the company selling the game. Gary Grisby and Major Holdridge are two
> of the few I know of, and they're certainly outnumbered by developers
> that are willing to settle for a game that is merely "adequate" and move
> onto the next.
>
> Personally, I'm looking forward to BC3K 2.0 and any of the add-ons that
> he's hoping to release for it. Other viewpoints are acknowledged and
> respected.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Steve
I agree with Steve on this one. Especially BC3K 2.0 but, for a different
reason, I think. I'm looking forward to BC3K 2.0 for the new round of
customer insults and laughing stock material that will likely accompany
it.
Derek Smart
On 26 Nov 1997 10:49:25 GMT, ji...@Hawaii.Edu (Jimmy Chan) wrote:
When this was sent to me via email, I was tempted to not respond since you're
in my killfile. However, finding you was not the hardest thing to do.
>Steve (Ste...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>:#..and instead of taking this route, he stuck with it and continues to
>:#patch BC3K until it's the way he meant it to be. If he dropped it
>:#entirely then the people who bought 1.0 would've been out of luck with
>:#no hope of ever having a working game... we've seen ENOUGH games
>
>How many people did he scam with his hype of the game before its release?
>How many others has he scammed with his personal guarantees.
Do you _know_ the meaning of the word 'scam'? When did you even get into this
gaming industry, last year? So hyping a game is now a scam. My personal
guarantee to fix the game _still_ stand and I have been upholding my end of
that deal. Whats _your_ point _exactly_?
>:#Personally, I'm looking forward to BC3K 2.0 and any of the add-ons that
>:#he's hoping to release for it. Other viewpoints are acknowledged and
>:#respected.
>
>How much can you trust someone who has already admitted lying?
I'm not sure where you go this boyo, but it sho 'nuf didn't come from me.
Derek Smart, Ph.D.
Designer/Lead Developer
Battlecruiser:3000AD
UIN : 158435
WWW : www.bc3000ad.com
MAIL : dsm...@pobox.com
Recent interview at : www.avault.com/articles/smartint.asp
BC3K sci-fi story : www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
Pedro Colman-Arrellaga
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:19:13 GMT, dsm...@pobox.com (Derek Smart)
wrote:
>On 26 Nov 1997 10:49:25 GMT, ji...@Hawaii.Edu (Jimmy Chan) wrote:
>
>When this was sent to me via email, I was tempted to not respond since you're
>in my killfile. However, finding you was not the hardest thing to do.
I just find this behavior fascinating. When you put someone in your
killfile, it means that you are ignoring them. Why then do you have
people forward you the responses of people you have killfiled? It
strikes as a somewhat "unique" way of doing things. But please, pay no
attention to me. This is all far too entertaining to be ruined by
anything as silly as common sense.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro Colman-Arréllaga | Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so
hiss...@cris.com | many more believers than thinkers.
hiss...@concentric.net | - Bruce Calvert
------------------------|
| Do I contradict myself?
"The Typhoid Mary of | Very well then, I contradict myself,
the shipping business" | (I am large, I contain multitudes).
| - Walt Whitman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy Chan
Derek Smart (dsm...@pobox.com) wrote:
:#On 26 Nov 1997 10:49:25 GMT, ji...@Hawaii.Edu (Jimmy Chan) wrote:
:#When this was sent to me via email, I was tempted to not respond since you're
:#in my killfile. However, finding you was not the hardest thing to do.
Never was hard to find, if you would only come out from the deception that
is a killfile. Learn what a killfile is for instead of trying to use it as
a shield. Asking others to email you or include in their posts, postings
from people that you have supposedly killfiled is lame.
:#>How many people did he scam with his hype of the game before its release?
:#>How many others has he scammed with his personal guarantees.
:#Do you _know_ the meaning of the word 'scam'? When did you even get into this
:#gaming industry, last year? So hyping a game is now a scam. My personal
:#guarantee to fix the game _still_ stand and I have been upholding my end of
:#that deal. Whats _your_ point _exactly_?
Hyping a game that you knew to be buggy is a scam. If someone markets
swamp land as prime real estate, it is a scam. If someone markets a buggy
game as a great game, it is a scam. You are a scam artist, period. SEZ ME.
If someone wants to email this post to DS, I'd like him to explain what
ever happened to the other version of the game that Take2 released. DS has
claimed that Take2 released the wrong version of the game, logically this
means there has to have been a correct version that was supposed to be
released. As to date there has been no sign of a correct version other
than what Take2 released and yet he is trying to patch that up. Could it
be that he is lying once again, *gasp*.
:#>How much can you trust someone who has already admitted lying?
:#I'm not sure where you go this boyo, but it sho 'nuf didn't come from me.
Well Kolohe o na keiki kane, considering the tangled web of lies you weave
it is not suprising that you would say this. I guess if someone searched
for your dissertation that they will be able to find it like you said,
right?
--
==============================ji...@hawaii.edu===============================
Dave Brown
In article <347d34ac....@news.mindspring.com>, WAR <Recruiter> wrote:
>>
>>Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
>>
>
>thing up -- what software publisher in its right mind would ever dare
>hire Derek Smart to produce a game given the incredible delays and
>legal troubles that have surrounded BC3K?
>
>I think the answer is obvious.
Its also obvious: anyone lacking the ethics preventing him from falsely
claiming that he has a Phd is certainly capable of creating a whole
new persona and alias. Be suspicious of someone named Maxwell Smarty
pushing something called "Battlewagon or Bust" in the near future.
Dave Brown
Steve
Jimmy Chan wrote:
>
> Steve (Ste...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>:#..and instead of taking this route, he stuck with it and continues to
>:#patch BC3K until it's the way he meant it to be. If he dropped it
>:#entirely then the people who bought 1.0 would've been out of luck with
>:#no hope of ever having a working game... we've seen ENOUGH games
>
I guess my simple answer to this is I would've felt he'd "scammed" me
if he released 1.0 as it was and then said "see ya later". THAT, to me,
would be a scam. The scamming of personal guarantees (and, as you later
said, trusting someone who has admitted lying) is related to promised
release dates (ie for patch versions and the manual, etc), I assume.(?)
I've seen most (if not all) promises met that I've followed, and would
consider that sort of thing to be "slipped release dates"; very common
in the gaming world anyways. Better late than never, that's the theme
of my outlook on the BC3K saga. :)
Regards,
-Steve
Steve
bill.h...@sandiegoca.ncr.com wrote:
>
> Steve <Ste...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<<snip>>
>
> I agree with Steve on this one. Especially BC3K 2.0 but, for a different
> reason, I think. I'm looking forward to BC3K 2.0 for the new round of
> customer insults and laughing stock material that will likely accompany
> it.
That DOES appear to be the lure for a lot of people on here. :) For a
game that was released in such bad state, it has by far the most posts
even a year afterwards.
I truly wonder if these insults will stop if, let's say, BC3K 2.0 *is*
released in an almost perfect form; the dream of every gamer who hoped
to one day command a space faring battlecruiser ? ..or has the flaming
and criticism taken on a momentum of its own, impervious to and beyond
whether 2.0 is a success ? Either way, any publicity is good publicity.
<G>
Regards,
-Steve
Jimmy Chan
Steve (Ste...@hotmail.com) wrote:
:#I guess my simple answer to this is I would've felt he'd "scammed" me
:#if he released 1.0 as it was and then said "see ya later". THAT, to me,
:#would be a scam. The scamming of personal guarantees (and, as you later
:#said, trusting someone who has admitted lying) is related to promised
:#release dates (ie for patch versions and the manual, etc), I assume.(?)
His lying was about finding his so-called dissertation. This he has
admitted that it isn't available. As has been said before, no dissertation
= no PhD.
:#I've seen most (if not all) promises met that I've followed, and would
:#consider that sort of thing to be "slipped release dates"; very common
:#in the gaming world anyways. Better late than never, that's the theme
:#of my outlook on the BC3K saga. :)
Yes, slipped release dates are very common. What isn't common is going
into a public forum and lying and swearing at everyone in the public
forum. Not the type of behavior I would like to support by buying his
games.
--
==============================ji...@hawaii.edu===============================
Pierre Vandevenne
In <65gurl$7...@news.Hawaii.Edu>, ji...@Hawaii.Edu (Jimmy Chan) writes:
>How much can you trust someone who has already admitted lying?
Slightly more than someone who tells me he _never_ lied.
---
Pierre Vandevenne, MD - http://www.datarescue.com
IDA Pro 3.7 adds multi pass analysis, stack variables, symbolic constants,
unicode, ELF support, color highlighting, C++ name demangling to compiler
library recognition - IDA Pro 3.7 : a stunning disassembler !
bp
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:04:01 -0800, "\\" <con...@mailexcite.com>
wrote:
>It's not a flame bait...really...
>
>
>
>Just wondering...
>
>Will Derek ever make another game after the BC3K blunder?
>
> and will we want him to?
God I hope so
Look haow fun this one has been
Well aleast the on line game.
Jimmy Chan
Jimmy Chan (ji...@Hawaii.Edu) wrote:
:#If someone wants to email this post to DS, I'd like him to explain what
:#ever happened to the other version of the game that Take2 released. DS has
:#claimed that Take2 released the wrong version of the game, logically this
:#means there has to have been a correct version that was supposed to be
:#released. As to date there has been no sign of a correct version other
:#than what Take2 released and yet he is trying to patch that up. Could it
:#be that he is lying once again, *gasp*.
Considering that DS hasn't responded to this but he has responded elsewhere
I guess he doesn't have an answer to this. Maybe it's too personal also.
Oh well, thought I maybe could get one straight answer for one question out
of many...8-). Guess it's hard to get an honest answer from a scammer.
--
==============================ji...@hawaii.edu===============================
c72...@sp2n17.missouri.edu
Derek Smart (dsm...@pobox.com) wrote:
: On 26 Nov 1997 10:49:25 GMT, ji...@Hawaii.Edu (Jimmy Chan) wrote:
: When this was sent to me via email, I was tempted to not respond since you're
: in my killfile. However, finding you was not the hardest thing to do.
I love it. The Game will never die.
: >How many people did he scam with his hype of the game before its release?
: >How many others has he scammed with his personal guarantees.
: Do you _know_ the meaning of the word 'scam'?
Scam (skam) n., scammed, scamming.
-n. 1. a fraudulent scheme; swindle
-v.t. 2. to cheat; defraud
: When did you even get into this
: gaming industry, last year? So hyping a game is now a scam.
Hyping a game is not a scam.
Hyping a game at a level that would make Hollywood blush and then
releasing a crappy product and *then* requiring paying customers to pay
again in order to get the completed product is a scam.
: My personal
: guarantee to fix the game _still_ stand and I have been upholding my end of
: that deal. Whats _your_ point _exactly_?
Derekologists, what's the official "BC3K v2.0 Held Hostage" count
now?
: >How much can you trust someone who has already admitted lying?
: I'm not sure where you go this boyo, but it sho 'nuf didn't come from me.
Sho 'nuf did punkassmuthafucka.
==
Chris Hemme, PhD-in-Training
University of ********, Biochemistry
Thesis: "Neurochemistry of the Superior Mind"
Bob Luthardt
c72...@sp2n17.missouri.edu wrote in article
<65vovn$4oi$5...@news.missouri.edu>...
>
> : I'm not sure where you go this boyo, but it sho 'nuf didn't come from
me.
>
> Sho 'nuf did punkassmuthafucka.
I am reminded of a selection in Leviticus...
Derek Smart
Now you're getting more ridiculous. There are dozens of posts explaining this
in excrutiating detail. Here's a summary, you will have to do the extra work
and find the original posts. I have better things to do with my time.
1. Take Two _did_ release the wrong version of the game. We were working on two
different versions because I did NOT want to use their Chase dogfigting
engine
2. Once I was told that they were releasing 'what they had', I left. They
released, '..what they had' knowing it to be incomplete. On attorney's
instructions, I had uploaded my current version to the TT bbs we used for
file transfers (I usually worked from home) and requested a performance of
contract letter in order that I not be sued for abandonment. I got this.
The whole Coke machine story was a fabrication and based on unsubstantiated
accounts given to a reporter by a TT 'insider' in an attempt to justify
their release of the game citing my 'absence' or 'unruly behavior'. To this
day, TT deny the account, citing that that report never came from their
people. I believe the reporter wrote what was told to him because he called
me _before_ that and I explained what had happened. He never told me
anything about the TT story. I became aware of it when I read it. There was
NO way he could've known about Tom Rigas rampaging through the office that
day unless someone had called and told him. Someone had to call and tell
him because he caught me just before I left TT to return to Miami. How did
he get my home phone number in Latrobe? It wasn't listed and only TT and my
own team had it. I in turn told him to speak to my attorney, which he did.
The whole thing about the Coke machine and cops showing up were all news to
me until I was advised by the public. Even after that fateful day, I
remained in Latrobe for 9 days, waiting for the performance contract, before
I could leave. No cops came to my house. No one questioned me and Latrobe
Police have no accounting of the matter as far as I'm told.
3. I did NOT know the game had shipped because I though they were bluffing
and that it was another ploy to dissect my contract like they did when I
left Miami and went up there.
4. I went out and bought a copy of the game from Best Buy so that I could see
what had shipped. Here is what I found.
- a box with old screen shots. NONE of them reflecting the game's current
graphics state. Also contained features that were not in the game because
they had either been (a) removed or (b) remain incomplete
- a complex game without a manual
- a game that didn't work for more than 5 mins without crashing
*That was Oct 1996
5. Two days later, I released a patch which among other things, disabled parts
of the Chase dogfighting engine and made the game somewhat playable. This
is a version that I had left behind and yes, TT did master the wrong
version regardless of whether the game was finished or not. A product that
worked out of the box is better than one which doesn't.
From that point on, I contacted some folks and we got together forming a
an official testing team for the BC3K. All dedicated gamers with nothing
to gain other than to see a game they paid for, work.
6. I proceeded to patch the game amidst widespread attacks on AOL, the media
and here. At the time, no-one even knew what had happened. There were only
rumors. I was pissed, confused and distressed. I did NOT think TT would
release the game. At best, I thought that they would rethink the situation,
give us more time to finish and take a royalty hit like I did when they
re-did my contract in 1996 when it was decided that (a) the graphics had to
be revamped (b) I had to bring the development 'in house' and use their
artists, animators, programmers etc.
7. Patching became an on-going event with NO support from TT once the game was
released.
8. Once C4 was released, Gametek released the game in the UK and Europe because
it was a better+stable version and also because, according to them, the bad
US units were filtering into the UK.
*That was Mar 1996
9. By this time, people were buying the game and patching it to make it work.
Coming to me for help and posting messages at the web site. The game still
had problems as it was still not finished.
10. Then the most secure and significant patch C5.3 was released. By this time,
it was obvious that I was (a) patching a game I wasn't going to make a penny
on (b) doing tech support for the game was taking up too much of my time (c)
I could not turn back on my gamers, so I pressed on.
*That was in April 1996
11. During the lull following the release of C5.3 and my E3 trip, I had to make
some decisions which would benefit the game and my company. It was
pointless patching a game that probably would not get re-released
regardless of TT promises to do this. I had already spent a half year
trying to complete the game amidst doing tech support, engaging in flames
etc. The game was only being patched to this extent because it was released
incomplete. Whether or not it would have been finished within 6 months had
it not been released, is speculatory. The fact of the matter is that I was
not just patching the game, I was still working on completing features that
were missing, incomplete or plain broken.
I then decided that I had to come up with a plan that would (a) finish the
game and give the gamers what they wanted and (b) give me something to
show for my hardwork in the form of a title that could be released as a
derivative product. How on Earth was I to release a *patched* game? (a) the
retailers won't take it (b) TT had no intentions of re-releasing it (c) where
the heck was I supposed to get the money from to do it? What was I supposed
to do? Spend a year patching a game and resting on my laurels saying "..great
now it's done, let me go do something that's going to pay my bills. Where do
I start?"
12. I then decided to enhance the game's graphics and feature set and have
something that was worthy of a re-release, not a year-old title with outdated
graphics and things everyone has already seen for a year. It's not like I was
on anyone's deadline or anything. Had I not patched the game and left it as
is, *every* copy would've been returned and I would still have been the bad
guy because TT would have pointed the finger in my direction.
It is sheer hard work and dedication that has brought the game this far and
kept it where it is - MORE THAN A YEAR AFTER IT'S RELEASE. How many
games released in that manner can boast this. Heck, good games are forgotten
in a matter of weeks with all the choices the gamer has these days.
13. I had decided to NOT release another patch and just do a final enhanced
version which would be offered to gamers for a small upgrade fee, and which
could be sold to new gamers. A fee of $15 is a small price to pay for the
enhancements now in the game. To prove it, I release the D patch variation. The
response alone told me that I was doing the right thing. I wasn't getting paid
to do this. I was doing it in the interest of my gamers and because it's the
right thing to do. I could've walked away anytime I felt like it and released
another product. Whether anyone would've bought it, again, is speculation. We
believe that it would have sold because people would still have *not* seen what
BC3K was all about. Also, had I not released any patches, folks would've
returned it, gotten their money back and no-one would've bitched about being
stiffed. Yes, I could have and should have walked away and put TT in final
distress, but I didn't because regardless of what they did to me and my game, I
had a contract that required me to deliver to them, a completed game.
Regardless of them releasing it prematurely, I did not feel that I had
personally fulfilled the terms of my contract to the general gaming public who
were expecting a *complete* game after years and years of hype. Regardless of
whose fault it was, it was my responsibility to ensure that I maintained
complete control of my product as I have done all these years. Once panic set
it, I lost that control and gave TT release rights to my game in exchange for
more time to complete the title, following the missed 1995 release. My mistake
for which I take full responsibility as I always have. Did I know the game
would not be finished for Christmas 1996. No. Did they know. No. These things
happen. We were all working on the same schedule and has access to the same
game. Even if I was lying through my teeth, someone at TT had to know what was
going on. As it happens, I had no intentions of releasing an incomplete game
*knowing* that would happen. I didn't think TT would either which is why I saw
no reason to worry about giving them release rights. Sure, there was a lot of
internal conflict going on but it did not affect development because I knew
what I was doing and had to do. It was all about who was in control and who was
boss. There were some members of the TT team who did not like being bossed
around by me and bringing the game in-house, somehow gave them the false
impression that I had somehow lost that control and that the game belonged to
TT. A few ravaging calls to the TT office in NY fixed that. Resentment settled
in because whether they liked it or not, I was BOSS and they had NO choice but
to answer to me. It was my game and the *only* person qualified to dictate and
outline how it was going to be done. Period. End of Story.
I have said this before and I will say this again. I do not hold the TT
development team of artists, soundfx people, animators and the two developers
responsible for this farce. They were acting on orders from a higher authority
and of course, they had to deal with me at a level consistent with trying to
get the game done. I hold myself and the TT bigwigs responsible and
accountable. Me for designing a game this complex and letting it get out of
control and them for releasing it rather than releasing me from my contract and
holding a lien on the title until they were paid their expenses (as my contract
required). They opted to ship it. I can and have forgiven myself and my
atonement was to deliver a game that gamers paid for. The lack of funding, the
financial loss, the tarnished rep, the heartache and sleepless nights, for me,
are retribution enough. TT will get theirs, in time. It's all in the capable
hands of God. Even if my next game sells 2 units, as long as there is a
finished copy of BC3K being played by a gamer who hung on it, I would've
achieve my goal. No amount of money can pay for that. No amount of money can
right what went wrong. My commitment to fixing the game, can and has. At this
point in time, I answer to my gamers, not my detractors. If I had the financial
means to release v2.0 for free to my gamers, I would. However, there are units
still being sold by TT and Gametek therefore, I cannot give out v2.0 free
because then they would continue to sell those units knowing that it can be
patched. Sure, I could do with the $15 from each gamer who buys a dud unit. But
no, I'm NOT about that and have no interest in that scheme. If I could have
sued TT and had them remove the game from circulation thereby reducing the
saturation of dud units into the mainstream, I would have. I couldn't and it
would've been one heck of a skirmish and by the time I got an arbitration
ruling, there may not be any units left to recall because I was still patching
the game which meant the dud units could still be sold. This is fact is what is
happening today but I'm not benefiting because no-one is paying me royalties.
Not TT nor Gametek (which is now owned by TT). If I could single out old gamers
from new gamers based on their purchase receipts, giving v2.0 away for free to
old gamers, I would. But how can I? I DO plan on giving v2.0 away for free to
the extent that if you can download the patches in succession and do with Adobe
manuals, then, be my guest. But if you want a new cd-rom, manual (printed or
not is unclear at this point) upgrade to v2.0, then you have to pay for it. $15
is a small price to pay for a years work and dedicated BC3K gamers don't care.
Only detractors and those not thinking straight would see this as a negative
move, forgetting that I have NO means of doing order fullfilment. You need a
publisher for that. I doubt that v2.0 DOS will ever enter the mainstream retail
market and go on the shelves. New gamers, who can't find v1.00 units to patch
will have to buy v2.0 directly from me or my new publisher. The development
specs for BC:3030AD the WIN32 sequel are already finalized and work has already
begun for release 'when it's ready'. Until then, there's WC5, I-War, 10th
Planet and X to play. They're all space combat sims and should keep gamers
busy until the 'second coming' of the BC3K phenomenon.
14. At the moment a complaint is about to be filed in the NY courts which TT is
going to have a hard time defending if they don't tell me where the existing
units are. We've been working on a mutual resolution which releases them of all
rights to the original title and all it's derivative works and allows me to do
what I please. They want the rights to continue selling the old units because
according to them, they have obligations to distributors. I have asked them to
make a warranty indicating how many there were and where they were. We're still
waiting for this info. At the end of the day, I don't want TT mastering v1.00
units knowing that a v2.0 enhancement exists. Even if the stores didn't take it
(which they won't), it can still be sold thru other channels. When it comes to
making money, no-one gives a shit about the morals associated with the
endeavour. BC3K had sold every unit that was mastered and I do not believe that
units exist in any warehouse anywhere because not many were mastered in the US.
To date we estimate that BC3K, regardless of it's history and premature
release, has sold in excess of 100K units worldwide. All because of me. Units
for which I did not get paid. To date, I have not received a single sheet of
paper from TT or Gametek about my royalties and sales reports. I am being told
that the game has not sold enough units to warrant royalty payments in lieu of
their development expenses. It's been more than a year. Several letters
requesting same have gone ignored and TT continue to operate on their own
terms. I continue to complete a game I started on in 1989.
Finally, I was to touch on the issues of a manual, broken promises and the
whereabouts of Elvis.
Manual - You CAN'T do a manual for a game that is not finished, especially for
a game as complex as BC3K. I made several attempts at releasing 'a manual' this
past year but better judgement told me not to. Amidst pressure, I sat down and
did one which was released a few months ago as a Preview. I am glad I took that
advice from Mark Asher, Mr detractor extraordinaire himself (hi Mark! <g>) et
al. It was a wise choice because it opened the gamers to the nature of the
beast. It wasn't that I was making broken promises. It couldn't be done and I
was scared that I would do a bad job considering I barely had time to do
anything but program. I had never written a manual before and when the press
types who saw it said it was good, I was shocked and still am. Before that
point, all I had were manuscripts, design docs, diagrams etc. All what TT
needed to use in order to do a manual. THEY couldn't do one for the same
reason. Heck, they released and incomplete game, what good would a manual be?
Broken Promises - Gimme a break. If you had to write a game as complex as this,
co-ordinate a development and testing team, deal with attorneys and
disreputable publishers, engage in meaningless and pointless flame-wars, toss
your bank statements in the bin knowing there's no need to reconcile them and
spend minutes wondering if you really should've read it, panic at any email or
post that starts off with '..Dear Mr fuckhead, about this game...' or "..hey,
Derek, your game sucks!", respond to HUNDREDS of posts from gamers, flamers and
folks trying to sell you on-line access to the best XXX site on the net because
they think you have no life, look at your dedicated partner in the face in the
morning and say "..sorry honey, couldn't come to bed last night, did you sleep
well?" which then leads to a meaningless argument bordering on questions
regarding your sanity and when you finally get to sleep you dream about how you
single-handedly and without help, fucked up your _entire_ life and career over
a game, YOU too would slip release dates.
If you have a rewarding life, career, job and a family to go home to, be
thankful because you could be me. Can you handle it?
Go your way folks and leave me be. I have done you no harm. I just wanted to
write this game.
Gary Hladik
"Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> writes:
>c72...@sp2n17.missouri.edu wrote in article
><65vovn$4oi$5...@news.missouri.edu>...
>>
>> : I'm not sure where you go this boyo, but it sho 'nuf didn't come from
>me.
>>
>> Sho 'nuf did punkassmuthafucka.
>I am reminded of a selection in Leviticus...
"What ye soweth, shall ye reapeth!" :-) :-)
Gary
Riboflavin
Derek Smart wrote in message <661k6l$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Derek, please point us to a source (besides you) where Take2 DENIES the Coke
machine account. All that anyone but you have heard from them is a "no
comment," which is not the same as a denial.
[snip - Derek rambling on about what a victim he supposedly is]
>Go your way folks and leave me be. I have done you no harm. I just wanted
to
>write this game.
That and flame people with legitimate questions...
--
Kevin Allegood ri...@mindspring.com
Lotus Notes and Windows NT system administrator
"That young girl is one of the least benightedly unintelligent
organic life forms it has been my profound lack of pleasure
not to be able to avoid meeting." -Marvin
Riboflavin
Well, it looks like Derek has completely dropped the pretense that he has a
killfile. Hopefully he'll pretend to have it again.
Derek Smart wrote in message <662b3f$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:58:16 -0500, "Riboflavin" <ri...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>>Derek, please point us to a source (besides you) where Take2 DENIES the
Coke
>>machine account. All that anyone but you have heard from them is a "no
>>comment," which is not the same as a denial.
>
>Typical isn't it?
Typical for you, yes.
>Is that how your logic works? Where did you even get a "no
>comment?" when even the press can't get even that far?
Is that how your logic works? Where did you even get a "DENIES" when Take2
won't say anything on the matter?
>Why don't you ask the
>author who reported it, his name is John Withers and can be reached at
>jpwit...@aol.com I'm sure he can answer this question because I cannot.
I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story and Take2
declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not deny it.
>Besides your claim of a "no comment" from TT, have you heard *anything*
from
>them since 1996? Let me guess, it doesn't matter right?
Nope, haven't heard a thing, including a DENIAL of the Coke Machine
incident.
> It's people like you
>who, blinded by illogical hindsight that make publishers think they can
pull
>this stunt and similar stunts.
And the failed game developer attempts to blame every fault of the software
industry on BC3K detractors. Derek, if you hadn't hyped your unfinished
game, flamed your customers, bragged about your supposed greatness, then
lied about everything you did and were going to do, no one would flame you.
You want attention, you've got it.
> Because after all, how much of a dent can a
>group of spineless, and abusive degenerate flamers do to change 'the way
things
>are'. Think about it.
Think about what? You're making less sense than usual, which is pretty
impressive.
> So, some of you don't like me. Who gives a shit? I sho as
>hell don't.
If you don't care, then why do you keep responding to us? If you really
didn't care, all you'd have to do is actually killfile us (and stop asking
people to email things to you), and ignore us. Of course you give a shit,
you spend all this time making these ludocras rants.
> But does that make what happened to this game any better if I was
>a saint and went "..yesar, masser, you can call me anything you want,
Bang! Derek again attempts to imply that the detractors are rascists, which
is in fact not the case. Derek, you're an ass, and you're the one who used
the Nunchaka, TOEFL, and count camels insults, no detractor even CARES what
race you are.
> I'm just
>an unknown developer" blah, blah. Screw that! I'm not anyone's whipping
boy.
And again, Derek, how is someone saying they have a problem with the game
insulting you? Yet you've always (up until the recent rash of niceness)
found it neccessary to flame them. And YOU were the one who hyped up the
unfinished piece of junk that Take2 foisted on the world.
>As a human being, I too am susceptible to mistakes. I've made them and I've
>paid the price thereof.
And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the last time
Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
>As a living breathing human being, I have the right to
>defend myself as I see fit.
And as a living breathing human being, I have the right to call a moronic
asshole a moronic asshole.
>It may not be the 'appropriate' course of action
>for a game developer to flame the 'customer' but since when was it okay to
>insult someone and make unsubstantiated claims? In my book, customer or no
>customer, if you insult me, you're getting it back.
Derek, you obviously have no grasp of how to run a business. You simply
ignore a customer who gets insulting.
Also, you ignore the fact that most of the people you insulted WERE ASKING
FOR HELP WITH THE GAME, not flaming you.
>If I chose to ignore it,
>it's because the voice of reasoning tells me it's a pointless endeavour and
>flaming is not the answer.
Or perhaps the voices in your head give you some instructions.
> How many of you would even say shit to my face if we
>ran into each other at a trade show.
I have no idea what you're like in person. If I ran into a person who
started telling me how they were smarter than I could possibly imagine, I'd
laugh at them in RL too.
> I broadcasted the fact that I was going to
>be at E3 for the entire term. How come all I got was respect and accolades
from
>those I ran into?
Because most people are polite...
>Not a single flamer was in sight. Oh yeah, they can't afford
>the trip to E3, blah, blah, blah, but I'm sure you get my meaning.
Derek, despite your belief in your own importance, you are not the center of
my life. You are an entertaining target of flames, but I wouldn't spend
money to go insult you to your face. Get a life and a clue.
Oh, and if you have a life, why are you posting these enormous rants? Why
not just ignore us and move on?
> It's easy to
>hide behind a keyboard and a phone line.
Yeah, that's why you do.
>I have, at several times tried to be rational and explain things in a
rational
>manner but responses are frought with misconceptions, accusations and
downright
>blatant lies to the point that you all just look plain silly,
You're the one who looks silly. The only times you've pretended to be
rational, you've either made up fairy tales about "Derek the Unjustly
Maligned Developer", pretended that you never posted 90% of your old posts,
and whined about game mags not paying any attention to your game. Oh, and
tried to blame everything on Take2.
> simply because I
>am still doing what I set out to do and have proven, beyond a doubt, that I
was
>on to something good, something worth fighting for and something worth
saving.
>
Do you still get your power from God, like you said before?
Derek Smart
On 2 Dec 1997 19:55:11 GMT, ft...@aol.com (Fthx) wrote:
<snip>
>That is, Derek was not cooperating with Take2 before the release of the game.
Oh sure
<snip>
>To this day, Take2 has never said anything about the Coke machine incident,
>except what was printed in CGW.
Of course not, because it ain't true
<snip>
>Yeah, sure. As usual, Derek doesn't even know the story he's denying. For the
>benefit of Derekologists, it is available at:
>
>http://members.aol.com/fthx/bc3k/coke.txt
Oh please, a compilation of your lies
>It would be great to see the Latrobe police records on Derek K****-Smart, but
>as I've said before, no ethical Derekologist would bother the Latrobe police
>about this stuff.
Sure.
<snip>
>The Derekological record shows Derek cross-posting positive comments about the
>game on 12 Oct 1996, on (probably) the first day it hit the street. I think
>Compu$erve veterans may remember comments from Derek from earlier (but that's
>outside my Derekological expertise)
One more thing you cannot substantiate
<snip>
>The Derekological record shows Derek cross-posting positive comments about the
>game on 12 Oct 1996, on (probably) the first day it hit the street. No hint of
>a game that crashed, either. The game did contain a manual, but an inadequate
>one that Derek blamed on Take2. The crashes were later blamed on Take2 and
>system problems, and all was to be taken care of in "the patch". No hint of a
>game that was years away from being finished.
Yeah, sure
<snip>
>Big lie. The first of two early patches was released about 12 (not 2) days
>after the game hit the street. Note also that PC Gamer said in their 15%
>review: "As we go to press, Take 2 has already released two patches ... But the
>patches seem to create as many problems as they solve."
Yeah sure, and what's the magazine lead time?
The version control file which lists the first official patch as dated 11/06/96
is at the bottom of this post. The game was released in October. I have *every*
patch written for it in. Do you? The date of BC3000AD.DAT is dated 9-23-97. The
file date on the TT v1.00 cd-rom is 10-1-96. I could NOT release a patch
because I did NOT know which version that had shipped. Here's how a RTpatch
works. You have two directories, OLD and NEW. When you run the patch builder,
it compares files in the OLD and NEW and builds a file. You can also do all
kinds fancy stuff by deleting/adding files etc. You then send the resulting
file with a builder. When you run the builder, it compares the target system
with the files it's updating. IF anything is different, the patch will fail.
You can suppress this in the patch source code but if you do, you run the risk
of having a problematic target system. So, I could not patch the retail product
because I did not have a copy of the game they shipped. Once I got my hands on
one, I built a patch for it bringing the user's version up to my code. This is
what I've always said when I mentioned that TT shipped the wrong version of the
game. Now, as far as what PC Gamer printed, I have my own issues with them but
in this case, they're just as inaccurate as ever. It wasnt that the patch made
things worse, quite on the contrary, its just that no-one knew to what extent
the game was 'broken'. So, new problems that manifested themselves on
subsequent runs would appear to have been introduced by that patch. I made a
pledge to release patches frequently until the game was completed. I have been
doing this since October 1993. Everyone thought the game was just buggy when in
fact it was just not finished, something I have said all along. I have done
nothing wrong in touting my game and yes, I DID denounce the release and made
several calls to the press, sent email and posted on AOL where all this crap
began and where you first 'discovered' me and took your stalking prowess to
higher and insane levels. Well excuse me if I couldn't get to the tv and radio
stations or for continuing to indicate that my game is the next best thing
since the invention of the toothpick. My goal was not to sabotage my game, my
goal was to FIX it amidst your bullshit. You DON'T have a leg to stand on
because all your efforts are in vain and frought with inaccuracies and claims
of 'proof'. By doctoring posts and printing excerpts, you rob the casual reader
or lurker from facts regarding this issue. It is for this reason, that I am,
again, in Dec 1997, repeating myself. I have written three _detailed_ posts
today and emailed them to me. In the future, I will simply cut and paste as I
find it necessary. Two can play this game and I'm better at it because unlike
you, I get results from my actions. Your efforts amount to zilch, zippo, squat.
And since I can't pound you - hard - I have to resort to posting this
repetitive bullshit for the benefit of those who don't have a clue what sort of
maniacal degenerate git you are.
<snip>
>That is, Derek promised a manual and a FAQ, but didn't deliver.
Here, read this. It's an excerpt. Cut and paste at work. Enjoy
Manual - You CAN'T do a manual for a game that is not finished, especially for
a game as complex as BC3K. I made several attempts at releasing 'a manual' this
past year but better judgement told me not to. Amidst pressure, I sat down and
did one which was released a few months ago as a Preview. I am glad I took that
advice from Mark Asher, Mr detractor extraordinaire himself (hi Mark! <g>) et
al. It was a wise choice because it opened the gamers to the nature of the
beast. It wasn't that I was making broken promises. It couldn't be done and I
was scared that I would do a bad job considering I barely had time to do
anything but program. I had never written a manual before and when the press
types who saw it said it was good, I was shocked and still am. Before that
point, all I had were manuscripts, design docs, diagrams etc. All what TT
needed to use in order to do a manual. THEY couldn't do one for the same
reason. Heck, they released and incomplete game, what good would a manual be?
<snip>
>Granted, Derek Smart is a fool. He still seemed to think that there was a big
>market for this game, and that he deserved yet another advance on phantom
>royalties.
Where in this whole issue did the question of advances come up? Okay, let me
guess since you don't have a clue what you're talking about and adept at making
shit up, why stop now right? Be my guest. The joke's on you.
<snip>
>Take2 provided web space for patches, but they were just the publisher that
>paid you, right Derek? You were too smart to use their help, and you'll take
>as many more years as you need to finish the game, right?
huh???? Someone _please_ get this guy some help. On www.game-wire.com is a post
that details my experiences with Take Two's lack of support for the game. I
received over FOUR THOUSAND responds. Take Two has NEVER supported this game.
Show me ONE gamer who got ANY assistance from Take Two. Just ONE. And what was
it they helped with. Take Two *ONLY* allocated web space when I threatened to
sue and made my gripes public. Since that time, I have been working closely
with ONE person, a nice young lady, who simply takes what I send, complete with
my instructions, and posts them. My website is the ONLY place where support is
handled and also via my email address
Here are just a few. Wanna spam the newsgroup with your unfounded crap, let's
do it. I have thousands more where this came from and this is just from a
public survey. I have not included any sent to me via private email because I
cant do that without the permission of the authors. I get email from
developers, artists and a lot of folks in the industry who have watched this
whole affair. You _think_ your bullshit has harmed me in *ANY* way? Only in
your dreams pal, only in your dreams.
Let's see. I picked these at random.
=================================================================
From: Nicholas Evancich <nhev...@cord.iupui.edu>
To: "'dsm...@pobox.com'" <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 21:10:43 +0000
Hello,
I hold you (Derek Smart) and Take2 responsible and liable for the premature
release of this title. I will never buy another title that is associated in
any form with Take2 or Derek Smart. I believe that you two are con-artists
that never intended to build a quality product.
-Nicholas Evancich
================================================================
From: Geoff Potter <gpo...@mindspring.com>
To: sup...@3000ad.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I)
Subject: I bought BC3K in beta form And a note to Mr. Derek Smart
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 97 04:13:53 +0000
To whom it may concern,
I purchased Battlecruiser 3000AD right around Christmas time last
year (1996) for 54.99. I was disappointed in the fact that a game that
I thought would be pretty cool was almost totally unplayable. I now
understand that the aforementioned game was released prematurely by Take
2 Games. In fact, I understand that BC3K was released to the public
without Mr. Smart's consent to do so. I also understand that Derek
Smart is not to blame for the aforementioned game being released before
it was complete.
Over the last year, I have seen patched released that slowly but
surely took care of the problems that I had trying to get the game
playable. At this time (8-22-97), the game seems totally playable to me
(except for the surface model (to be fixed in the next patch after C5))
thanks to Mr. Smart releasing the patches he promised plus some. So
far, I have enjoyed the game and hope to see the surface model patch and
a new manual.
Mr. Smart, I hope this little tid bit helps you win out against "The
Man" hehe. In my opinion you have been treated unfairly by Take 2 from
the beginning, but that's just my opinion. Also, I want you to know
that I have been involved with computers for over ten years in one way
or another and I now work for a small independent computer reseller in
middle Georgia. So, you can see that I know some of what you have had
to deal with, with the public and with Take 2.
Well, guess I've rattled on long enough. Keep up the good work! I
hope the best for you and yours.
Yours Truly,
Geoff Potter
P.S.-I hope that www.bc3000ad.com comes back on line soon, as I like to
check the message board every day or so. You might wanna give Damiano a
kick in the tail, eh?
===============================================================
From: AEvan...@aol.com
To: dsm...@pobox.com
Subject: bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 97 14:49:28 +0000
I purchased this game in a beta form, nothing worked. I think that Take 2
should have taken the extra time to perfect the game and book was not even a
book but a pamplet. Why do you stupid people at take 2 release this? I mean
even the makers of Falcon 3.0 fully supported their game but you guys? You
act like the game was a bad dream and yet your still racking up the bucks for
a game that you have forgotten ;)
Anthony Evans
===============================================================
From: Morgan Bottner <bot...@lax.net>
Reply-To: Morgan Bottner <bot...@lax.net>
To: dsm...@pobox.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 97 22:48:47 +0000
Well what can I say... I bought it several months ago, tryed to play it
for a while, but failed, and returned it. I don't know who's fault it
is, and I really don't care. What I do know is that I thought the game
was complete when I bought it, and was wrong. I admire Derek for his
vision in creating a really great game, and am sad that he failed. (the
first release, anyway)
Regards,
Morgan Bottner
===============================================================
From: William Holmes <holm...@uidaho.edu>
To: dsm...@pobox.com
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Authentication-Warning: raven.csrv.uidaho.edu: holm8593 owned process doing
-bs
X-Sender: holm...@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 01:27:39 +0000
To Whom It May Concern,
For several years I was very excited about the prospect of a game like
BC3K. I waited and went and purchased it the same week it was released.
I was very excited by the introduction to the game and immediately began
playing. First thing I noted was the manual was awfully small for a game
of this scope. I did little to inform me on what I could do and was
poorly layed out. I decided to play the game anyway and found I could not
play for more than five minutes before the game would crash. I went to
Take2 for help. They said there were some problems and they were working
on it. They told me to rearrange a few files to help fix the problem.
This gave me about an extra minute of play before the game would crash.
I began to hound the people at Take2 for help. They told me to wait for
the patch. Soon they told me to go to Derek for assistance. I found that
he had created his own web site seperate from Take2 to help us, the
consumer, out. I have never seen a company give this much backing to a
failing project. I decided to keep the game and hope that Derek would
keep his word. So far I have not been disappointed in his efforts.
Needless to say, I am very angry at Take2 for brushing me off and I will
NEVER, EVER buy a product from them again. I have also told my friends my
opinion about this company and THEY will NEVER purchase a product from
Take2 as well.
Good Luck Derek,
Dan Holmes
holm...@uidaho.edu
===============================================================
From: "Darrin M. Conant" <DCo...@stny.lrun.com>
To: "'dsm...@pobox.com'" <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: [may be junkmail -pobox] I bought BC3K in BETA form
Old-Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 12:45:48 +0000
It is my belief that Take 2's product was in no way complete and playable in
it's initial release. As an employee of a retail software store, I can also
state that Battlecruiser 3000 appeared to have one of the highest rates of
returns I have seen in a game. It wasn't until the patches were available, that
customers began purchasing the product with the intention of keeping it.
While I still do not believe that the game is completed (as of 8/23/97), the
only one out there doing anything to remedy the situation is Derek Smart. The
lack of any mention of the product on Take 2's web site seems to me to be an
admission that they are embarassed of the product and wish to distance
themselves as much as possible. After applying the patches to the product, the
improvement in the game is very noticeable and critical to the enjoyment of the
product.
---
Darrin M. Conant
Dco...@stny.lrun.com
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the
Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not
true."
--Robert Wilensky, University of California
===============================================================
From: Nicholas Page <nichol...@virgin.net>
Reply-To: nichol...@virgin.net
To: dsm...@pobox.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I)
Subject: BC3K and DSG retail ltd
Organization: PIDAS
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by blackbox.pobox.com id
VAA15118
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 01:21:51 +0000
I dont know what relevance this bears. But I know that Gametek UK had an
agreement with Dixons stores group to package BC3K, on the day of its
release, with another Gametek game called 'surface tension'. This was
not limited to the first day of availablity. As far as I am aware the
offer is still on.
This seemed a little strange to me considering that it was retailing for
only £30, even *with* the extra game. Looks to me as if the company did
not value the product.
The double pack was being sold in PC world, part of DSG retail.
James Page
===============================================================
To: sup...@3000ad.com
From: Toku <toku...@highway.or.jp>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32)
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Sender: toku...@mail.highway.or.jp
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 17:58:00 +0000
I bought this game with full knowledge of its incomplete status
but, far from condoning the release, I did it for curiosity.
In my opinion Battlecruiser 3000 AD will long be remembered as
one of the worst cases of fraud in the history of computer
entertainment software, with it's publisher knowingly releasing
it in an unusable state.
The history of this game and it's developer are considered very
controversial by some people (including myself), but the problems
between Dr. Smart and Take 2 Interactive are no concern of mine
because they should have been dealt with behind closed doors until
the game was complete or the project cancelled.
But instead Take 2 Interactive decided to release a half finished
game, expecting the public to pay for it.
It is my opinion that Take 2 Interactive committed outright fraud.
Cesar Tokumura
P.S.- I'm writing this because I'm told that this message could be
part of a possible legal action against Take2. If that is the case
I must state that I'm not a citizen of the U.S.A. but, even though
I paid around 15 U.S. dollars by mail order, as of may 1997 this
game could be found in some shops priced 5700 Yens in Japan.
===============================================================
From: Ben Brooks <ash...@ihug.co.nz>
To: "'dsm...@pobox.com'" <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 97 11:47:39 +0000
I was bloody disappointed when I found out how unfinished the game was, it
seems to have a lot of potential.
I would also like the game to be sent free to countries outside of UK/USA , as
funnily enough, I don't live there :)
I am extremely angry at take 2 for doing something like this ,and I would like
, at the very least, a public apology from them.
Thank you for taking a stand.
===============================================================
From: "Robert Farmer" <rob...@zipmail.co.uk>
To: <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 97 20:50:21 +0000
I bought BC3K in BETA form
Yes it was full of bugs when I purchased it.
(Elite 2 all over again!)
===============================================================
From: Mike Brzezinski <mi...@intelenet.net>
To: dsm...@pobox.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U)
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Organization: Intelenet Communications Inc.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 97 22:03:59 +0000
I purchased the original release of BC3K, and quickly gave up
on the game due to it's complete unplayability and lack of
proper documentation.
I have not tried the patches, because I don't feel I or any
person that purchased this game should be required to pay for the
bandwidth necessary to patch this game to a playable level.
Either send me a full refund or the fully patched and documented
(and hopefully playable) version.
--
Mike Brzezinski Intelenet Communications, Inc.
e-mail: mi...@intelenet.net 18101 Von Karman, Suite 550
Phone: (714)851-8250 x246 Irvine, CA 92612
Fax: (714)851-1088 http://www.intelenet.net
===============================================================
From: Julian Parker <david.p...@virgin.net>
Reply-To: david.p...@virgin.net
To: sup...@3000ad.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 17:43:14 +0000
hi,
I thought that I should say how disgusted I am at Take2/Gametek's
handling of BC3K. Not only do they both release it unfinished but they
also leave Derek Smart to handle all the people complaining about its
unfinished state. Gametek should know better from their Frontier: First
Encounters disaster. I think the plans Derek has for the finished
version of BC3K sound great and if all people who bought the unfinished
game get a copy of the re-released complete version FREE then I will be
happy.
Julian Parker
===============================================================
Reply-To: <@vision.net.au>
From: "Scott Murphy" <smu...@vision.net.au>
To: <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 16:10:29 +0000
To Whom It may concern,
I purchased a copy of the game Battlecruiser 3000AD based upon information
disseminated from Take 2, and found it to be not fit for the purpose for
which I purchased it.
I also believe that Take 2's advertising was misleading, and not
representative of the product I received.
I do feel that the numerous patches and on-going support received from the
title's author have greatly enhanced what was an incomplete software title.
Regards
Scott Murphy
===============================================================
To: dsm...@pobox.com
From: Peter Gamble <gam...@cadvision.com>
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Sender: gam...@huey.cadvision.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 00:39:26 +0000
When I bought BC3K, I was sorrely dissappointed by what I found in the box.
A nice shiny CD with a crashing program, and a teeny-tiny little manual
with loads of spelling errors, and not much useful info. I went to Derek's
site, and found patches that made the game a much better version of itself.
Derek is doing everything he can to bring this excellent game back from the
grave, and that effort is becoming more and more successful every single
day! Take-2 has abandoned a project that they released without warning or
notice, knowing too well that the game wasn't finished (how could they
not?). Derek has put a lot of time and energy into making this game one of
the best I have ever played--a task I could not imagine trying to do. Derek
started this game, and he intends to finish it. I admire him for that, and
a lot of others on his page, heard and silent, do too.
===============================================================
From: Pery Pearson <pe...@chaos.rose.hp.com>
To: dsm...@pobox.com
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 14:46:11 +0000
I have followed the BattleCruiser3000 news threads for years.
I was and still am excited about this title. However, when I received
BC3K as a Christmas gift from my wife the year of its release, I was
very disappointed. The manual was unacceptable, the game had bugs too
numerous to mention, and the bottom line is that the title was unplayable
as advertised upon initial release by Take2. I have played beta and
"test" versions of games which had fewer problems and were playable. I do
not consider the BC3K version released by Take2 to be production quality;
I would classify it as beta. If it were not for Derek Smart's dedication
and hard work on BC3K after the initial release, I would have demanded a
refund long ago; as it is, I am still excited and am awaiting the final
"D" patch and manual with great anticipation.
--
Pery Pearson e-mail: pe...@core.rose.hp.com
===============================================================
From: "phariss" <pha...@cew.wwia.net>
To: <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: I Bought BC3K In BETA Form
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 01:10:57 +0000
Yes,
I bought BC3K in Beta Format, even though it was published as a
"Finished
Product." The Sales Clerk that sold it to me advised me that it was a
great game and that there was a minor patch for "Something or Other", but
that you really didn't need it. What he didn't tell me was that the
released game was unplayable at best. Luckily for me, I have a friend who
had bought it a week earlier and had found the BC3K websight, and had
installed the patches that Derek Smart had graciously started issueing to
correct the deficiencies in the "Released Version." Upon installing the
first patch, I became and still am a devout follower/player of "THE GAME".
I have the highest regard for Derek Smart and his development team. They
have followed through with releasing patches (still ongoing) to make the
game better and better. In the beginning, I contacted Take 2 for support.
Their reply was to send me to the BC3K Websight for answers. I had already
been there and informed them of this. Their reply was that they released
the game, but knew nothing about the progress of correcting the released
deficiencies. They did, however, tell me that I would be receiving a "New
CD of the Game" when all the deficiencies were corrected, along with
supporting documentation. I now doubt their sincerity, as it appears that
they have abandoned their advertisement on Take 2's Websight. As I have
mentioned earlier, I am still a devout supporter of BC3K and Derek Smart.
I will continue to anxiously await each new patch release, and will
purchase any new release from Derek Smart and his development team. On the
other hand though, Take 2 has lost any further possibility of gaining
capital at my expense. As a Retired Naval Officer, my past experiences
taught me that, no matter the adversity, a man always had something that
could never be taken away from him. HIS INTEGRITY!!!! From where I am
sitting, Take 2 surrendered theirs without so much as a fight or whimper.
With Highest Regards,
Richard F. Phariss
CWO2 USN (Retired)
===============================================================
From: "Michael & Shanon Dowling" <mdow...@mail.paulbunyan.net>
To: <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 03:39:50 +0000
I read the ads in many popular pc gameing magazines hypeing battle
cruiser, so as soon as a company named chips and bits
recieved the game in stock I ordered it. When I opened the box the first
thing I noticed was the very small manual. For a game that
was hyped as being one of the most complex ever, the manual was to be
generous, a bit thin. Once I installed and run the game I expierenced what
seemed to be random lockups and a framerate that made the game almost
unplayable in it's self. Well to say the least I was very disapointed. My
first blame was layed on the programmer(s). I assumed it was all their
fault but I soon found out that the publisher (take 2) released the game
while it was still in beta form. At that time I was informed that all
registerd owners of battle cruiser would reciveve a printed manual when it
was complete.
If it was'nt for Derek Smarts devotion to finishing this product I
would
have just accepted the fact that Take 2 weasled 48 bucks out of me. I
figured there was'nt much I could do about it. Fortunatly for all gamers
who bought bc3000ad and decided to keep it, Derek Smart and his team are
supporting the game and it is becomeing the product that I had hoped to see
in the first place.
===============================================================
From: whi...@macquarie.matra.com.au (Steven White)
To: dsm...@pobox.com
Reply-To: whi...@macquarie.matra.com.au
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 10:23:43 +0000
I would just like to say that while I knew the game had problems
before I purchaced it I was pretty surprised to find out how
pre-release the game was.
I was annoyed at the fact that there was VERY little information
regarding tech-support at the Take 2 site. It didn't take long before
they started using BC3000ADs web site to do all the support for them.
Thank heavens the BC3000AD site was setup because I believe Take 2
would have just blamed BC3000AD and we would have had no feedback to
whether the game was going to be ever finished! Would wouldn't have
known the real story...
Thanks for the EXCELLENT support and not only fixing the bugs but
still improving the game even though you arn't making any money from
it!
Regards,
Steven White.
===============================================================
From: David Seregow <dav...@navicom.com>
Reply-To: dav...@navicom.com
To: dsm...@pobox.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I)
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 19:48:52 +0000
I got Bc3k when it first came out and, I thought it was going to be the
best game, ever! when I installed it I didn't like it and I couldn't
figure out how to play it, so I deleted it and forgot about the game
(and was sorry that I even got it). But a few month later, I heard
about the patches and went online and got them, and I started to play
Bc3k again, and even with the C5.3 patch Bc3k is now my favorite game
(even over wingcommander 4 and all those other games). And with the D
patch comming I think Bc3k will be the best game, EVER (until the next
version of Bc3000 comes out). Derek thanks for fixing the bugs in the
game!
David
aka.Cmdr. LordDavid of the GCV Terminator
===============================================================
From: "Martin Ross" <m...@interware.net>
To: "dsm...@pobox.com" <dsm...@pobox.com>
Reply-To: "Martin Ross" <m...@interware.net>
X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 18:42:15 +0000
Priority: normal
Take2 have been complete assholes with regard to this matter. They
are worse than useless. I agree 100% with Dr. Smart. If he is
sometimes anti-social it is simply because he has put seven years of
hard work into this project and watched it be flushed down the drain
by an incompetent publisher.
Martin Ross
m...@interware.net
===============================================================
From: Andy Creigh <AndyC...@compuserve.com>
To: "sup...@3000ad.com" <sup...@3000ad.com>
Subject: Patience
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 97 20:30:57 +0000
Derek,
Elite got me started all those years ago on the spectrum. I followed it
onto the +3 and then the Atari and through the PC as Frontier and FFE.
Okay, they were buggy, but the man with the original vision was dedicated
to the cause and the patches eventually fixed most of the problems. Ok so
we had to keep re-starting because the saved games were not compatible. So
what. That's all part of the fun of playing an open ended space simulation
with infinite possibilities.
But I was looking for more.
I posted a message about Privateer 2 last year saying what a huge
disapointment it was and what I was looking for in the ideal game:- The
depth of Elite/Frontier, the graphics of Inferno, open ended, and with new
and exciting possibilities. I said that I would be willing to pay double
the usual price for such a game.
Then, one day I happened across your the preview files on Compuserve and
once again sat back for the long wait.
Well, it's only one year on and the finished game is due out soon. Not only
that but I've been allowed to play a preview version of the game for half
price.
There may be many people who will have been frustrated by 'playing a beta
version of the game', more fool them.
As they say,
The impossible we can do today, miracles take a little longer.
If I'm still playing this game next year, I will send you the rest of the
money...
Keep up the good work and good luck in court.
Regards,
Andy
34 year old father of 2, golfer, cave-diver, leader of 3 himalayan
expeditions, contract programmer and appreciative gamer.
===============================================================
From: micha...@amd.com
To: dsm...@pobox.com
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text
Autoforwarded: FALSE
Conversion-With-Loss: Allowed
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 97 01:54:32 +0000
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
Conversion: allowed
Alternate-Recipient: prohibited
Derek,
I was among the faithful (some might say rabid) that purchased BC3000AD
the first week it was released back in 1996. This seems like a whole
lifetime ago in retrospect. I was shocked and just a little dismayed
at the state of the program (which was clearly not even BETA material)
and the less than useful 30+ page manual. All in all, it was not a good start.
However, over the last year, you have stuck to your guns in continuing
to patch this program just like you stuck to your guns for 7 years trying
to get it out. I admire you for having the strength of character and
the strength of your convictions to continue with something that you believed
in. It was a battle well fought because BC3K is now almost the program
it should have been before Take 2 gave premature birth to it.
I find that I'm still amazed by the depth and detail that can be found
in BC3K. I still get surprised from time to time when something happens
which I didn't really expect. Thank you for creating such a great game,
for your vision, and for your continuing support of all the gamers who
bought BC3K. You've probably earned the title "The Hardest Working Man
in the Game Biz!"
In any case, it is because of your undying devotion to this cause that
I have complete confidence in all your future products which will interface
with BC3K. I look forward to the continued expansion of this great universe
you've created for us and will continue to be a customer for your products
for years to come.
Sincerely,
Michael Lim
===============================================================
From: dmo...@cdsl.ca (Donald Moreau)
To: dsm...@pobox.com
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
X-Conversion-ID: <PU-NOTES.2221.873260561.20694>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:28:15 UNK
Hi Derek,
This is a rehash of the other email I sent you.... here you go.
When I first read the article for Battlecruiser in Computer Games Strategy
Plus(the only mag that doesn't seem to be in anyone's pocket), I was genuinely
heartbroken. I was so looking forward to the game, and then to have them
report the state of the game(as it was). I was quite disappointed. So
needless to say I didn't go out and purchase the game. Although the article
did mention that you were going to be working on finishing the game(since it
obviously wasn't done), I pretty much left the game at that. Then last May, I
was in my local computer store talking to one of the clerks. We were talking
about simulations/etc. and he said, "Here I have a game for you...." and lo
and behold he handed me the box and said, "You should buy this." I proceeded
to relate how buggy the game was and he mentionned that the game was patched
and quite playable. I jumped on the opportunity and bought the game(the price
had nothing to do with it, I would have bought it for it's initial release
price if I knew there were patches for it... actually, between you and me... I
think that once v2.0 is done, 100$ would be a reasonable price for what the
game will offer). I proceeded to Take2's site, and downloaded the patches,
but due to the lack of information/instructions, I didn't manage to get the
game updated properly. I did however find the link to your site, and have
since used it as the answer to all my questions(including getting the patches
applied properly). I haven't been to Take2's site since. To be quite honest,
I haven't even sent in my registration card (not that I usually do) to Take2
because I don't get the impression that they are going to do anything to
further the game's development.
The point is when I bought the game (even those 7 or so months after it's
release) it still wasn't done, albeit being much further along than the CD-ROM
version. So the copy that shipped on the cd-rom (by Take2) was in my opinion
a beta copy of the software.
Sincerely,
Don Moreau
===============================================================
From: Slotties <dsp...@wirehub.nl>
To: dsm...@pobox.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I)
Subject: I bought Bc3000ad in beta form.
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 97 18:43:05 +0000
In November 1996 I bought the game 'Battlecruiser 3000AD' (the
US-edition)
after reading various articles about it on the internet.
These were pre-release articles and not reviews. They all sounded
very promising.
After I bought it the game was a big dissapointment, because it didn't
work very well. In fact it was totaly unplayable and it wasn't at all
what had been
promised. Some feature didn't work at all.
Fortunatly the game developer mr. Derek Smart promised the people who
bought it that he would continue working on it.
And he is keeping his promise, several patches have been released to
this
date and the game is much better than when I bought it.
Thanks to mr. Smarts personal dedication the game shaping up to be as
promised.
I thank mr. Smart for this, and also for his devotion to give the people
who bought the
game not only their money worth but also a damn fine game, as I'm sure
do many others.
David Slothouber,
===============================================================
From: Victor Edwards <V_Ed...@compuserve.com>
To: "'Dr. D Smart'" <dsm...@pobox.com>
Subject: I Bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 12:02:52 +0000
To whom it may concern:
I wish to add my voice to the choir of original dissatisfied customers who
purchased BC 3000AD in October 1996. I expected like many others the game
would function "out of the box" with no problems. I was wrong.
Throughout the pass 11 months, Dr. Smart and 3000AD have provided upgrades
and fixes to the game to bring it to the level of playable and satisfying.
I am satisfied at this date with what he and his company has done.
Take 2 on the other hand has been quiet about BC 3000AD and I suspect they
would sooner forget or not acknowledge any connection with this game
whatsoever.
I am unconcerned at this late date "who shoot John", but rather what Take 2
intends to do about this problem for its less patient and fortunate
customers. I believe the only right thing to do is to reissue the game
with all the patches applied at no or very little cost to the original
owners.
I acknowledge that Take 2 will probably lose money on this action, but may
very well profit in the long run gaining new customers of the reissued if
they establish a position of "doing the right thing." This would be
especially refreshing in a business notorious for taking the customer's
money and running. If a business shows loyalty and concern to me as a
customer, I will show loyalty to them. Its that simple.
Thanks for the opportunity to express my opinion.
Sincerely,
Victor T. Edwards
===============================================================
From: Greg Baumbach <baum...@spsinc.com>
To: "'sup...@3000ad.com'" <sup...@3000ad.com>
Subject: I bought BC3K in BETA form
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 97 17:43:08 +0000
I purchased BC3K from Babbage's way back in January 1997, and it failed to work
properly out of the box. In fact, I'd say it really barely ran at all. The
manual was a joke. While reading it I often thought it was talking about some
other game, certainly not mine.
Derek Smart's patches have helped, and the game is getting more functional with
each one. Take 2 was of no help, and I am offended that they would sell me
beta software for $29.99 US. Think about it--I get Netscape betas for free, so
why should I pay Take 2 thirty bucks for that *priveledge*?
It's sad to see a game with such enormous potential ruined by a software
distributor's mistakes.
--
Greg Baumbach
SysAdmin/Programmer Voice: 518/452-7773
Strategic Power Systems, Inc. Fax: 518/452-7776
7 Wembley Square E-mail: baum...@spsinc.com
Albany, NY 12205 URL: http://www.spsinc.com
Note: any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and are not
necessarily those of Strategic Power Systems, Inc.
===============================================================
From: "Mark M Janecki" <ma...@teleport.com>
To: <sup...@3000ad.com>
Subject: Re: Battlecruiser 3000AD patch 1.01 d6
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 97 13:55:34 +0000
CIC Derek Smart
Derek you and your team out did yourselves this time. Patch 1.01 6Da is
great. If this is just a preview I can not wait for Ver 2.0. I still can
not command but thats my problem not yours. On your ver 2.0 will I be able
to get 2 copies if I send you my 2 CDs (I bought 1 for home and 1 for work)
and the money to match. I guess I am asking is there a limit to the number
of "registered upgrades" someone can get. Yes I know ver 2.0 is not an
upgrade but I can not think of another term at this time.
My only problem is while I used to be able to run it from Win 95. I can not
seem to run it now but I have not put much time into the problem either so
do not worry about it.
Waiting and biting my fingernails (please do not hurry on my account my
fingernails will be fine honest) waiting for ver 2.0
Mark M Janecki
Commander GCS MONITOR (I always get confused on the G___ part)
ma...@teleport.com
===============================================================
<snip>
>That was when you said you wouldn't support the U.K. release, and started the
>"fuck you" tradition,
Correct. Gametek told me that they would pay me royalties directly 'for my
troubles because they know I'm having financial troubles with TT' What was I to
do? Not do patches for the UK version and make the UK gamers suffer? Yeah
right. As it happens, I didn't get the money promised and shortly after, TT
bought Gametek. Made a fool of again because of my commitment to my game and my
gamers. Yet, I'm still here.
>shortly after the "personal guarantee" of the manual by March 1.
Here, this might help ease the pain. Read it five times, say two Hail Mary's,
walk around the block three times and if the pain persists, step in front of a
fast moving vehicle.
Manual - You CAN'T do a manual for a game that is not finished, especially for
a game as complex as BC3K. I made several attempts at releasing 'a manual' this
past year but better judgement told me not to. Amidst pressure, I sat down and
did one which was released a few months ago as a Preview. I am glad I took that
advice from Mark Asher, Mr detractor extraordinaire himself (hi Mark! <g>) et
al. It was a wise choice because it opened the gamers to the nature of the
beast. It wasn't that I was making broken promises. It couldn't be done and I
was scared that I would do a bad job considering I barely had time to do
anything but program. I had never written a manual before and when the press
types who saw it said it was good, I was shocked and still am. Before that
point, all I had were manuscripts, design docs, diagrams etc. All what TT
needed to use in order to do a manual. THEY couldn't do one for the same
reason. Heck, they released and incomplete game, what good would a manual be?
<snip>
>But you said the C5 patch+manual was coming soon, and would convince everyone.
As far as I know, it did.
<snip>
>That was when you again failed to deliver the finished manual as promised, and
>botched the demo.
Here this might help, since the first remedy didn't help.
>>
Manual - You CAN'T do a manual for a game that is not finished, especially for
a game as complex as BC3K. I made several attempts at releasing 'a manual' this
past year but better judgement told me not to. Amidst pressure, I sat down and
did one which was released a few months ago as a Preview. I am glad I took that
advice from Mark Asher, Mr detractor extraordinaire himself (hi Mark! <g>) et
al. It was a wise choice because it opened the gamers to the nature of the
beast. It wasn't that I was making broken promises. It couldn't be done and I
was scared that I would do a bad job considering I barely had time to do
anything but program. I had never written a manual before and when the press
types who saw it said it was good, I was shocked and still am. Before that
point, all I had were manuscripts, design docs, diagrams etc. All what TT
needed to use in order to do a manual. THEY couldn't do one for the same
reason. Heck, they released and incomplete game, what good would a manual be?
<<
As for the demo, botched it? I didn't botch anything. You think the magazines
employ incompetent fools. Which is why you're probably unemployed or earning
minimum wage. The game/demo will NOT run from a sub-directory and requires a
FULL install (75MB) so that it does not have to look for files on the cd-rom.
Here's how it works, the BC3000AD.INI has a path to the install directory. When
you do a partial install, it leaves some files on the cd-rom. When it needs it,
it accesses the cd-rom for those files. Because the path in the .INI file
reflects a root structure, files buried in \DEMOS\BC3KDEMO will NOT be found
and game will not operate or will crash at that point. Somewhere along the
line, this information about a full install was missed and folks doing a
PARTIAL install were unable to run the demo because it was expecting the files
to be in the ROOT of the cd-rom instead of in a sub-directory where it was
hosted and burned onto the cd-rom by the magazine. I had NO complaints about
the demo from the mags that ran it. They played it, tested it, were satisfied
and life was good (even if you were exempt). Those who had problems did what
the mag says "CONTACT THE DEVELOPER"
Only you would use an incident like this to twist and distort issues.
<snip>
>And making a lot of false claims and promises about the horribly unfinished
>game, the one you said was within ONE MONTH of being finished at the end of
>1995.
Yes, in 1995 I said it almost complete. It was and between that time and
Christmas a LOT of things changed most of which were publisher oriented just
like when the graphics (texture maps, 2D cockpits/screens etc) were overhauled
by them in 1996. These things happen and who the &%*#( did you expect to write
the code. Even the most successful companies miss schedules etc. The result? A
game either ships late, ships incomplete or does not ship at all. If I was
simply 'fixing' the game, it would be done by now. But after I realized that it
was a pointless excercise, I had NOTHING to lose by fixing and enhancing for
the benefit of myself and the gamers. Think of it as a reward for waiting. Even
the most loyal gamer would've jumped ship if they were STILL waiting for the
original patched version of BC3K released in 1996. Instead ALL my gamers are
still playing a game that was (a) released incomplete (b) did NOT work out of
the box (c) required an excorcism to make it work first time back in 1996 (d)
requires significant download+patching time (e) is constantly evolving and
looks better with _every_ patch (g) is till cutting edge a FULL year later and
(f) IS STILL NOT FINISHED!!!!!!!! Yet still, they hang on, they patch, they
play, they post hints, they send support. Others buy the game out of curiosity,
stick with it etc. What does this tell you Sherlock?
<snip>
>"Stop lying about it" might have been a good start. For money, did you think
>about *getting a job*, Derek?
First , I don't even understand the merits of your response and second, I HAVE
a job and one which is under the scrutiny of the public eye where my work is
assesed with each new dawn. Do you have a job? Okay, probably not, how about a
life? Do you have one? I mean, surely you do, cause everyone has at least
_some_ kind of life even if it's being parked in a trailer park with nose
rings, earring, and holes in every part that's not tatooed, smoking pot and
yammering about how the Federal Govt. is conducting experiments on their
favorite sheep.
<snip>
>But the BC3K online game continues!
Indeed and thanks for your useless banter.
<snip>
>The $15 scam came a mere two weeks after yet another promise of the D patch
>(which until recently was supposed to be the last patch, to be called V1.1 when
>all the bugs were found (ha!))
IF you had the game and the patch, you would've seen the README.TXT file that
accompanied it. Here it is. See how nice I am to you. Plugging every hole you
open with more stuff that's bound to make you wince.
===============================================================
BATTLECRUISER:3000AD READ ME
----------------------------
[10.12.97]
A WORD FROM THE SUPREME COMMANDER
=================================
Most of you are no doubt aware of the controversy surrounding the premature
release of BC3K a year ago. Yes, the product was not ready for release and
regardless of whose fault it was, I have worked very hard this year to complete
this development and bring this whole saga to an end.
You will no doubt agree that the game has come from totally unplayable to a
complex and enjoyable experience. All of you have waited patiently while some
of you have opted to ridicule myself, my team and my life's work in the online
forums. Nevertheless, I have stuck to my game, to my dream and to my goals
always hoping that one day the world would see what it is I have created. You
are all witnesses to the hard work that my team and I, including my dedicated
testers, have put into this development. We could all have quit when we had the
chance. We didn't.
In April, I realized that patching the game to completion would most likely
take it into the holiday season and that, once again, graphics technology
would pass me by. I did not believe that you folks would want to wait an entire
year to play a game that sported old technology considering the recent crop of
advanced games currently on the market. Some of you, disappointed, have already
stopped playing, saving the game for that day when it would be completed. My
thoughts led me to sanction the upgrade of the graphics technology in order to
keep up with recent trends. Once you start the game, these updates will be
immediately evident. You will NOT believe that you are playing the same game.
All the renderers have been updated. The graphics enhancements alone are too
numerous to list but consider that the BC3K core consists of over 25
independent renderers with more being added to support 3D accelerators.
External planets now have high definition maps even though only the solar
system has been updated for this. To include maps for the entire galaxy would
mean a 100MB patch. The final v2.0 cd-rom will have high res map support for
the entire galaxy. The cloaking system now uses a renderer with advanced
transparency routines. You will also notice the beautiful lens flare effects
in space and on the planet, the cloud cover on planets as well as the new
collision detect routines which is still work in progress. The most
significant gameplay feature you will notice is Xtreme Carnage. It now
supports the advanced ACM scripting technology and is more streamlined and a
lot of fun. You may want to start your adventures here, once you apply the
patch. The explosions have also been updated and timed based on frame rate.
Missiles are now more deadly, the flight engine on the surface has been slowed
down and enemy ai has been updated. Significant optimizations have also be
done to the kernel itself upon which BC3K runs. All in all, you will notice
some significant improvements in v1.01D6 over v1.01C5.3 and certainly the
original v1.00 release.
In order to keep the series alive there was no way that I could continue
development in order to release a final v1.1 without financial support. It has
been extremely difficult to fund this development on a shoe string budget and
it is your support of v2.0 that I am counting on in order to continue
supporting the title. As a result of this and other developments, I have
decided to bypass v1.1 entirely and do a commercial re-release of the title for
retail sales and distribution in 1998. This title has now been dubbed,
Battlecruiser 3000AD v2.0. and will include the v1.1 patch and all the
enhancements that have been done and which you will now see when you apply the
included patch. Existing owners of the original v1.00 will be charged a
minimum fee for the upgrade which will include a new cd-rom and on-line
manual. Plans are underway to include a printed manual if possible. New users
will be able to purchase the full repackaged v2.0 directly from 3000AD or via
the retail channel.
Some of you have expressed concern over being charged for a game that you paid
for a year ago. I understand those concerns but unfortunately, there is nothing
that I can do. I have plans to do a non-enhanced v1.1 patch for those who
request it but I can only do this once v2.0 is completed and released. I am
counting on you to understand my position on this matter. With advancements in
3D accelerator technology, you can expect to see a FREE 3Dfx patch for v2.0
once it is completed next year. I also have plans to do a Rendition and PowerVR
patch once the 3Dfx one is completed. I have also announced a sequel to the
title, Battlecruiser Commander (working title), as well as several add-ons for
it. As existing owners of BC3K, you can expect to purchase these titles at
significantly reduced prices. If you missed the press release, you can catch it
on www.game-wire.com. Anyway new titles in the series are as follows:
[Battlecruiser Commander]
A tentative working title for the sequel due out next year. All new galaxy, new
class of Battlecruiser with the ability to carry a variety of fighters, 3Dfx,
Rendition, MMX support as well as over 30 new features including the much
awaited ship to ship comms and direct first person control of deployed
personnel (as if you were controlling one of your ships). Support for buying
components to build your own bases and cities on planet surfaces is also
planned!
[BC3K: Strike Pak]
This is already in development and will allow you to board, in first person
perspective, ships that you target. You will also be able to walk around inside
your own Battlecruiser. The first pak will probably have 2-3 ships from each
class, ie carrier, cruiser, transport, station, base. More will be done based
on the success of the add-on. This add-on can be played stand-alone or linked
to Battlecruiser Commander. Now you can board Gammulan ships, stations and
bases and kick some serious butt. The Level Infinity team (splinter group from
BPD, the guys who brought you The Gate conversion for Duke3D) are already
on-board and will be working on designing all the ship interiors as
'levels'. Expect a demo of the Battlecruiser model which you can walk around
in, sometime soon.
[BC3K: Skirmish Pak]
A multi-player add-on for Battlecruiser Commander supporting TCP/IP, modem &
direct connection. Like Xtreme Carnage, this add-on will have a smaller unique
galaxy but will support all the features in BC3K and BC. You can enter as any
alien nation, caste with any ship type. Trade, mine, invade, hijaak etc.
Everything you can now do in BC3K and in BC, you will be able to do in the
Skirmish Pak.
TECHNICAL SUPPORT INFO
======================
There are several files included in the patch
README.TXT - This file
BC3KHELP.TXT - Installation assistance
BC3KVER.TXT - Version control file. Lists new features and changes
BC3KBUGS.TXT - Master bug list. Lists fixed and pending bugs. PLEASE check
this file before reporting a bug.
For more technical support, please visit the official BC3K web site COMMLINK
area at www.bc3000ad.com. If you are not already registered, please do so and
re-enter using the password provided. Updates will be available in the FTP
section of the Cargo Bay. The site is undergoing siginificant upgrades so
please excuse the mess. Here, you can download the preview manual in a file
called BC3KMAN.ZIP. You will need the Adobe Acrobat 3.01 reader (www.adobe.com)
for it.
A new file, called BC3KNDX.ZIP is also available. It contains all the manual
appendix data in MS Word format complete with screen shots. You NEED this file!
If you don't have MS Word, you can download the latest version of the MS Word
Viewer at www.microsoft.com. These files were created using MS Word '97 so you
need the latest version and NOT the one which ships with the WIN95 cd-rom.
Have fun and PLEASE post your feedback at the site. Let us know what you think
of the D patch and perhaps, I may just release another version with the final
changes to the orbital model, tacOPS and surface ops <g>
Regards
Derek K. Smart, Ph.D.
President, Lead Developer
3000AD
email: sup...@bc3000ad.com
CSI : 76704,162
===============================================================
<snip>
>Uh huh. How many more years, Derek? Is it finished yet???
It's finished when I, Derek Smart, says it is.
<snip>
>HAHAHAHAHAHA! No shit, Derek. It's nice to see the bitter reality setting in
>finally. Good luck selling those patches, Derek!
I've got two words for you - SEEK HELP
<snip>
>Yes, fortunately there are developers who are capable of finishing their games,
Yes indeed, and?
>and not insulting their customers
I have no regrets in insulting anyone who insults me and I'd do it *ANY* day of
the week depending on the mood I'm in and what's at stake.
>and lying about their credentials.
Oh, the Ph.D. thing. Okay, here's what you do. I have to use more severe
medication because your condition is a little more serious. Get a pair of
plyers. Go to the bathroom and open your mouth wide enough so that you can see
that wisdom tooth with the cavity in it. You may need to pound your head
against the wall a few times to numb yourself senseless (should'nt take too
much effort since you're partial senseless anyway). Now reach inside and yank
that tooth out. It may not come out at first, but try harder. As you feel the
pain, attribute it to how useless your jabs at me are. Getting thru to you is
like pulling teeth.
As you imagine the pain, read this TEN times and if it doesn't sink in, walk in
front of a garbage truck at first light.
>>
...if my reluctance to tell YOU where who the granting body is means that I
don't have a Ph.D., then there's this bridge I'd like to sell you. Furthermore,
this is a public medium and there are those here, friends of mine, who laugh at
this shit all day long. It's because of them and other lurkers that I stopped
flaming and dropped this whole crap. Now, as I have said before, if you or
anyone thinks that I would, for several years, tag a Ph.D. at the end of my
name, having worked in this industry longer than most of you, you're really,
really nuts. When Bill took off looking for my thesis, I knew for a fact that
he wouldn't find it but I was curious to see where it would go. Now, why on
Earth would I challenge him, to the extent of putting out a bet and given the
nature of the comms medium, to find it? Furthermore, I have explained a million
times why and I have no intentions of breaching what I have already said. I
will not tell you nor anyone where I got my degree because (a) it's non of your
business (b) I don't need your stupid apologies (c) it's a pointless venture
and (d) I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone. Furthermore, I refuse
to succumb to emotional blackmail. The fact that it's difficult to defend
oneself on-line amidst a barrage of accusations, name-calling and insults, does
not warrant any move on my part to quell such actions because frankly they
haven't changed my life in any shape or form.
<<
<snip>
>Wolf!
Hit rock bottom? Run out of steam? Darn, and I was just begining to have fun
<snip>
>Just wait until it's finished!
We all are.
<snip>
>But that didn't stop you from lying about it being finished! It was the
>customer's fault, though, and Take2's.
Huh????
<snip>
>But that didn't stop you from flaming the people who tried to play it, did
>you???
I flamed those who flamed me. You for instance started stalking me since AOL
<snip>
>My heart bleeds for the poor, defenseless Taco Boy.
Yep, rock bottom alright.
Now, like a little dog, crawl into your crib and forever hold your peace
because the fact of the matter is, you and I are of a different breed and
somewhere in your genetic string, is a horrible mistake that's already
happened.
Derek Smart
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:58:16 -0500, "Riboflavin" <ri...@mindspring.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Derek, please point us to a source (besides you) where Take2 DENIES the Coke
>machine account. All that anyone but you have heard from them is a "no
>comment," which is not the same as a denial.
Typical isn't it? Is that how your logic works? Where did you even get a "no
comment?" when even the press can't get even that far? Why don't you ask the
author who reported it, his name is John Withers and can be reached at
jpwit...@aol.com I'm sure he can answer this question because I cannot.
Besides your claim of a "no comment" from TT, have you heard *anything* from
them since 1996? Let me guess, it doesn't matter right? It's people like you
who, blinded by illogical hindsight that make publishers think they can pull
this stunt and similar stunts. Because after all, how much of a dent can a
group of spineless, and abusive degenerate flamers do to change 'the way things
are'. Think about it. So, some of you don't like me. Who gives a shit? I sho as
hell don't. But does that make what happened to this game any better if I was
a saint and went "..yesar, masser, you can call me anything you want, I'm just
an unknown developer" blah, blah. Screw that! I'm not anyone's whipping boy.
As a human being, I too am susceptible to mistakes. I've made them and I've
paid the price thereof. As a living breathing human being, I have the right to
defend myself as I see fit. It may not be the 'appropriate' course of action
for a game developer to flame the 'customer' but since when was it okay to
insult someone and make unsubstantiated claims? In my book, customer or no
customer, if you insult me, you're getting it back. If I chose to ignore it,
it's because the voice of reasoning tells me it's a pointless endeavour and
flaming is not the answer. How many of you would even say shit to my face if we
ran into each other at a trade show. I broadcasted the fact that I was going to
be at E3 for the entire term. How come all I got was respect and accolades from
those I ran into? Not a single flamer was in sight. Oh yeah, they can't afford
the trip to E3, blah, blah, blah, but I'm sure you get my meaning. It's easy to
hide behind a keyboard and a phone line.
I have, at several times tried to be rational and explain things in a rational
manner but responses are frought with misconceptions, accusations and downright
blatant lies to the point that you all just look plain silly, simply because I
am still doing what I set out to do and have proven, beyond a doubt, that I was
on to something good, something worth fighting for and something worth saving.
Derek Smart, Ph.D.
Derek Smart
On 2 Dec 1997 17:44:39 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
>
>
>c72...@sp2n17.missouri.edu wrote in article
><65vovn$4oi$5...@news.missouri.edu>...
>
>>
>> : I'm not sure where you go this boyo, but it sho 'nuf didn't come from
>me.
>>
>> Sho 'nuf did punkassmuthafucka.
>
>I am reminded of a selection in Leviticus...
Never 'eard o' the moron
BP
On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:01:09 GMT, dsm...@pobox.com (Derek Smart)
wrote:
>On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:58:16 -0500, "Riboflavin" <ri...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
Is it me or is Derek about to blow ?
What is it ? Please tell us.
>
Derek let me rephrase that for you
I have, at several times tried to explain things in a irrational
manner but it was frought with misconceptions, accusations and
downright blatant lies to the point that I just look plain silly.
Derek Smart
:correction
>The version control file which lists the first official patch as dated 11/06/96
>is at the bottom of this post. The game was released in October. I have *every*
>patch written for it in. Do you? The date of BC3000AD.DAT is dated 9-23-96. The
>file date on the TT v1.00 cd-rom is 10-1-96.
sixball
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:26:33 -0500, "Riboflavin" <ri...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>>
>Do you still get your power from God, like you said before?
Hell he thinks he is God.
Bob Luthardt
Derek Smart <dsm...@pobox.com> wrote in article
<661k6l$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
[...long post snipped...]
>
> Go your way folks and leave me be. I have done you no harm. I just wanted
to
> write this game.
>
Derek
While your supporters will agree with you and will continue to support this
and future efforts, there will be those who, regardless of the truth, will
find reason to argue, bicker, insult, and torment you. There are about 3 of
them who have a sincere hatred for you, but the vast majority are going to
be the ones who like to peer over the shoulders of bullies shouting "yeah,
what _he_ said!" at you.
Then there are those who are here for no other reason but the entertainment
value. And they exist on both sides of the fence. I consider Riboflavin a
good example. In some way, I too hover close to this group. While there are
plenty of people on this planet more than worthy of our hatred, I cannot
for the life of me imagine why a select few revel in hatred and
confrontation.
Some will call me a "mindless supporter", but nothing could be further from
the truth. I'm just a guy who waits a few months before purchasing a game -
waits until it passes the test of consumer opinion. Anyone, in my opinion,
who does not do this is simply tossing money away and shouldn't gripe and
moan when they get taken. For me, Outpost was the last straw. I read the
hype, and bought it on day one. Never again. I always wait, and I end up
not buying many games I completely lusted for when they first hit the
shelves. Your game falls in this group. I was completely hiped up for it,
but waited. Lo and behold, it stunk. Be it TT's fault, your fault, or the
fault of the man in the moon didn't really matter much to me. Only that it
stunk up the place and I was going to skip it.
And what many fail to understand is that while the lead programmer and
designer of Outpost or Darklands, or Tony Larussa II simply moved on to new
projects, shielded by anonymity, your name was emblazoned right across the
box lid, "..A Derek Smart game." It wasn't Take Two who had to do some
late-night ass covering. It was Derek Smart. His name was on the box, it
was _his_ frankenstienian beast sitting on the shelves.
I've been a victim of my own short-temper and frustrations both in action
and in print - I have sat myself in the same hot seat that you're firmly
buckled into. I know how hard it is to ignore the barbs, the jabs, and the
insults. Criticisms, no matter how scathing, are part of the job - I get
those in my line of work. You learn from them, you become better for them,
and you move on. But when the whirlwind gets you, when the barbs become
personal and are more directed at your loved ones than at yourself, and you
enter the lion's cage to shut them up, you'll find that no amount of
explaining is going to quench the hunger for raw meat. They _will_ eat you,
whether you toss laurels at thier feet, or fire quarrels in thier backs.
The end result is the same. The only way to escape is to simply walk out of
the cage. Let animals be animals and return to the humans.
It is said that if one had the time and resolve, you could tap yourself on
the arm enough times to break it. It isn't a matter of how hard you tap,
but how many times - the cumulative degenerative effect on the tissue and
the bone. The psyche is simply another organ of the human body, made up of
unknowns and mysteries we cannot measure by cell or atom - but if tapped
enough times, it too will break under the effect.
Battlecruiser 3000AD was not good. What Battlecruiser 3000AD _COULD_ have
been was a game people would speak of with the same awe and admiration as
Zork II or Wasteland. We can only imagine the might-have-beens. We cannot
create them.
What cannot be done is to turn back time and save this game. It is done.
You also cannot go back and withdraw the posts you made when the
frustrations and the pressures were so heavy and powerful, that you too
became insulting and hostile, and yes, a bit arrogant. All that can be done
is to say today, right now, that the past is the past, and that you are
stronger than the pressure. You would not be where you are today were you
not stronger than the pressure - you would have folded and caved in long
ago.
Keep working hard - it is the only way to the top. If game development were
easy, we'd all be doing it. Just remember - no matter what you say, there
will be those who are deaf to you, choosing to hate rather than listen,
choosing to beliger rather than believe, opting for hatred over reason. And
it is those who often speak the loudest and most often.
I will purchase BC3K 2.0 when it is released, and I will purchase future
games that have the banner, "...A Derek Smart game" emblazoned on the box
lid. Not because I'm a mindless "Smartologist". But because I'm not going
to write off anyone or anything because of a fumbled marketing mistake. And
the fast majority of consumers agree with me. If it were not so, Oldsmobile
would have gone away long ago over the fears of yet another Edsel being
thrust upon an unwary public. People make mistakes - it is our lot. But
decent people admit to them and move on.
My apologies to all for the length of this reply. I will impose some form
of punishment.
Bob Luthardt
Bob Luthardt
*** Portions of quoted text were shortened for size, and not changed in
content or context. ***
Fthx <ft...@aol.com> wrote in article
> That is, Derek was not cooperating with Take2 before the release of the
game.
Is this opinion or established fact? And can you point to an anthology text
that verifies this?
> >To this day, TT deny the account, citing that that report never came
from their
> >people. I believe the reporter wrote what was told to him because he
> >called
>
> To this day, Take2 has never said anything about the Coke machine
incident,
> except what was printed in CGW.
Actually that is partially correct. Take2 officially had "no comment" on
the incident (I would think for legal reasons). While they would
acknowledge the "story", they would not confirm/deny.
> It would be great to see the Latrobe police records on Derek K****-Smart,
but
> as I've said before, no ethical Derekologist would bother the Latrobe
police
> about this stuff.
>
Why is that? You can launch "full blown investigations" into the
documentation over his PhD, but you won't place one phone call to Latrobe
Police and request this information? It is public domain and could not be
easier to do. It isn't a question of ethics but of legitimacy. No
Derekologist wants to be told by the police, "Um, sir? We don't have
anything on record for that day and that address," and risk the realization
of being wrong (note: there is not translation of English-to-Detractor for
the word "wrong". The closest I can find is, "slightly misinformed.").
>
> The Derekological record shows Derek cross-posting positive comments
about the
> game on 12 Oct 1996, on (probably) the first day it hit the street. I
think
> Compu$erve veterans may remember comments from Derek from earlier (but
that's
> outside my Derekological expertise).
>
And this proves he had knowledge of the release? As admitted by yourself
and others, Derek was cross-posting LONG BEFORE the game was released.
> >4. I went out and bought a copy of the game from Best Buy so that I
could see
> > what had shipped.
> >
> > *That was Oct 1996
>
> The Derekological record shows Derek cross-posting positive comments
about the
> game on 12 Oct 1996, on (probably) the first day it hit the street. No
hint of
> a game that crashed, either. The game did contain a manual, but an
inadequate
> one that Derek blamed on Take2. The crashes were later blamed on Take2
and
> system problems, and all was to be taken care of in "the patch". No hint
of a
> game that was years away from being finished.
>
Same thing - he was cross posting about the game LONG BEFORE it's release.
This fact does not establish anything.
As for your wanting hints that the game was years away from being finished,
I don't think *ANYONE* had any idea that this game was that far from
completion. Also, keep in mind that in those 2 years, as broken and
imcomplete features were being repaired/replaced, NEW FEATURES were being
implemented and the decision was made to delay a bit here, delay a bit
there. I don't know if I support this or not, but I certainly don't think
it worth the ludicrous vendetta you have.
>
> Granted, Derek Smart is a fool. He still seemed to think that there was
a big
> market for this game, and that he deserved yet another advance on phantom
> royalties.
>
Uh oh. More opinion. And crummy presentation at that. Calling someone a
fool is pretty severe, at least it should be. And as to the size of the
potential market, I wasn't aware that this was a determining factor in
whether a product is permitted to be developed and released. And as far as
royalty advances, they are part of the industry, and it is not unheard of
or uncommon to request and advance. And most parties are willing to oblige
royalty advances. I don't see why this was so hurtful for you.
>
> Take2 provided web space for patches, but they were just the publisher
that
> paid you, right Derek? You were too smart to use their help, and you'll
take
> as many more years as you need to finish the game, right?
>
Again, how were you hurt by the fact that Derek didn't use Take2 web space?
Maybe you could sue for personal injury damages.
>
> "Stop lying about it" might have been a good start. For money, did you
think
> about *getting a job*, Derek?
>
Are you hiring?
>
> But the BC3K online game continues!
>
But with your help, maybe we can prevent it! (?)
> The $15 scam came a mere two weeks after yet another promise of the D
patch
> (which until recently was supposed to be the last patch, to be called
V1.1 when
> all the bugs were found (ha!))
>
Why is this a scam? If Microsoft can simply patch Flight Simulator again
and again, using the same tired old engine, and charge full price for it
over and over, why are you not going ballistic on Bill Gates?
Oh, is it because he considers you a mindless little grub in the mud?
Hmm...I'd say he's wrong, but he considers me one too.
> Uh huh. How many more years, Derek? Is it finished yet???
>
What part of your personal life is currently "on hold" until it is
finished?
>
> But that didn't stop you from flaming the people who tried to play it,
did
> you???
>
Flaming people is a hard stand to defend. All I can say is people can act
like real jerks when under intense pressure and constant bombardment. It's
the real jerks who never come back to reality.
> >Go your way folks and leave me be. I have done you no harm. I just
wanted to
> >write this game.
>
> My heart bleeds for the poor, defenseless Taco Boy.
You've already proven your lack of heart, tinman. You can bleed from what
you don't have.
>
> >
> >
> >Derek Smart, Ph.D. NOT!
>
> Again, the PhD is a fraud. Details at:
>
> http://members.aol.com/fthx/bc3k/DerekSmartPhDFraudAnthology2.txt
>
Jon Ballinger
Riboflavin wrote in message <662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
[snip]
>>Is that how your logic works? Where did you even get a "no
>>comment?" when even the press can't get even that far?
>
>Is that how your logic works? Where did you even get a "DENIES" when Take2
>won't say anything on the matter?
>
>>Why don't you ask the
>>author who reported it, his name is John Withers and can be reached at
>>jpwit...@aol.com I'm sure he can answer this question because I cannot.
>
>I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story and Take2
>declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not deny it.
You don't feel like harassing him as you don't want your little dreamworld
view of Derek to be punctured.
Hell, you're probably one of those people who believe every word in the
Tabloids!
[snip]
Denials or no comments don't mean shit unless someone confirms it other than
a cheap shot story ran a year ago.
>> It's people like you
>>who, blinded by illogical hindsight that make publishers think they can
>pull
>>this stunt and similar stunts.
>
>And the failed game developer attempts to blame every fault of the software
>industry on BC3K detractors. Derek, if you hadn't hyped your unfinished
>game, flamed your customers, bragged about your supposed greatness, then
>lied about everything you did and were going to do, no one would flame you.
>You want attention, you've got it.
Crap. Release slippage is common place. The game is almost complete and a
vast number of people are playing it and enjoying it. A few ignorant people
are attacking Derek when they, understandably, started off attacking the
game. Now the game is all but fixed they've gotta get their jollys
elsewhere.
[snip]
>> So, some of you don't like me. Who gives a shit? I sho as
>>hell don't.
>
>If you don't care, then why do you keep responding to us? If you really
>didn't care, all you'd have to do is actually killfile us (and stop asking
>people to email things to you), and ignore us. Of course you give a shit,
>you spend all this time making these ludocras rants.
There's nothing more ludicrous than someone ranting and raving to Derek
about killfiles and coke machines. Most of the detractors seem unduly
obsessed with bringing down Derek and BC3K.. It's about time that you
realised that you have no effect at all on the real world.
Usenet is a forum which is invariably full of moaners. Like the moaners
that sit on a park bench and whine to every one else who stops and sits
down.
[snip]
>> I'm just
>>an unknown developer" blah, blah. Screw that! I'm not anyone's whipping
>boy.
>
>And again, Derek, how is someone saying they have a problem with the game
>insulting you? Yet you've always (up until the recent rash of niceness)
>found it neccessary to flame them. And YOU were the one who hyped up the
>unfinished piece of junk that Take2 foisted on the world.
People who ask legitimate queries about the game do not get flamed. Only
the people who make personal attacks do.
Okay, try this for an experiment. By something from a hardware store. Lets
say it didn't work, a broken part or something.
You take it back and say "This doesn't work, this bits broken. And by the
way you're an asshole muthafucka."
Think you'd still get served?
>>As a human being, I too am susceptible to mistakes. I've made them and
I've
>>paid the price thereof.
>
>And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the last time
>Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
Different types of people.
>>As a living breathing human being, I have the right to
>>defend myself as I see fit.
>
>And as a living breathing human being, I have the right to call a moronic
>asshole a moronic asshole.
Go find the nearest mirror then, that'll do it.
>>It may not be the 'appropriate' course of action
>>for a game developer to flame the 'customer' but since when was it okay
to
>>insult someone and make unsubstantiated claims? In my book, customer or no
>>customer, if you insult me, you're getting it back.
>
>Derek, you obviously have no grasp of how to run a business. You simply
>ignore a customer who gets insulting.
>
>Also, you ignore the fact that most of the people you insulted WERE ASKING
>FOR HELP WITH THE GAME, not flaming you.
Bull.
>>If I chose to ignore it,
>>it's because the voice of reasoning tells me it's a pointless endeavour
and
>>flaming is not the answer.
>
>Or perhaps the voices in your head give you some instructions.
Now you're saying he has psychological problems? Hehe, he's remarkably sane
if you think about the amount of crap he's had to take from people like you.
>> How many of you would even say shit to my face if we
>>ran into each other at a trade show.
>
>I have no idea what you're like in person. If I ran into a person who
>started telling me how they were smarter than I could possibly imagine, I'd
>laugh at them in RL too.
I'm sure you would. Even if it were true?
>> I broadcasted the fact that I was going to
>>be at E3 for the entire term. How come all I got was respect and accolades
>from
>>those I ran into?
>
>Because most people are polite...
And they obviously weren't BC3K/Derek haters who reside on Usenet.
[snipped rest of crap]
It's down to Derek to quit is it? Why not you? Takes two to tango.
--
Jon Ballinger
3D Graphics Toolkit: http://www.jabsystems.demon.co.uk
BC3K sci-fi story: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
Jon Ballinger
All hail Bill's latest witty remark!
Jeez, come up with something different.
--
Jon Ballinger
3D Graphics Toolkit: http://www.jabsystems.demon.co.uk
BC3K sci-fi story: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
sixball wrote in message <663iuf$n...@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:26:33 -0500, "Riboflavin" <ri...@mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>
>>Do you still get your power from God, like you said before?
>Hell he thinks he is God.
Bob Luthardt
Riboflavin <ri...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
<<D.Smart quote:>>
> >Why don't you ask the
> >author who reported it, his name is John Withers and can be reached at
> >jpwit...@aol.com I'm sure he can answer this question because I
cannot.
>
> I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story and
Take2
> declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not deny it.
Now I'm confused. You don't mind harrasing Dr. Smart, but you won't send a
simple email to J Withers because you don't want to _harass him_!!??
This is so insane.
Bob Luthardt
Jon Ballinger <jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<881160537.7609.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Riboflavin wrote in message <662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
>
> >And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the last
time
> >Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
Sid Meier is a confirmed jerk. A friend of mine works at Microprose in Hunt
Valley, and has had nothing but smiles on his face since SM left. And I've
heard this from people on the Magic The Gathering dev team as well. He's
abusive, abrasive, and _loves_ to humiliate people.
Please, Rib. Don't assume - make informed decisions.
KAD
Derek Smart wrote in message <662b3f$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
><snip>
>
>the trip to E3, blah, blah, blah, but I'm sure you get my meaning. It's
easy to
>hide behind a keyboard and a phone line.
>
You mean like calling someone a "jackass"?
Shithead.
sixball
>All hail Bill's latest witty remark!
All hail Jon's witty retort !
It wasn't witty by the way he does consider himself the be the higher
authority, he has said so himself.
So get off you high horse and read the thread oh and you might want to
read Derek's post also.
Are you looking for a promotion from the Supreme Taco Commander ?
I have an idea for you Jon
Go to Deja News look up Derek Smart start at the oldest date and read
them all (should only take a few weeks) then come back here and tell
me you feel the same about Derek.
Seeya
Bill
>Jeez, come up with something different.
>
>--
>Jon Ballinger
>3D Graphics Toolkit: http://www.jabsystems.demon.co.uk
>BC3K sci-fi story: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
>
>
>sixball wrote in message <663iuf$n...@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>>On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:26:33 -0500, "Riboflavin" <ri...@mindspring.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>Do you still get your power from God, like you said before?
>>Hell he thinks he is God.
sixball
On 3 Dec 1997 15:04:59 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
>
>
>Jon Ballinger <jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
><881160537.7609.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> Riboflavin wrote in message <662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
>>
>> >And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the last
>time
>> >Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
>
>Sid Meier is a confirmed jerk. A friend of mine works at Microprose in Hunt
>Valley, and has had nothing but smiles on his face since SM left. And I've
>heard this from people on the Magic The Gathering dev team as well. He's
>abusive, abrasive, and _loves_ to humiliate people.
>
>Please, Rib. Don't assume - make informed decisions.
>
>
Maybe you didn't read the question to well
go to the top and try again.
BTW what you stated is hear say and is only one side of the story.
Means zippo.
sixball
On 3 Dec 1997 15:01:27 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
>
>
>Riboflavin <ri...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
><662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
><<D.Smart quote:>>
>> >Why don't you ask the
>> >author who reported it, his name is John Withers and can be reached at
>> >jpwit...@aol.com I'm sure he can answer this question because I
>cannot.
>>
>> I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story and
>Take2
>> declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not deny it.
>
>
>Now I'm confused. You don't mind harrasing Dr. Smart, but you won't send a
>simple email to J Withers because you don't want to _harass him_!!??
>This is so insane.
>
Reading problem again Bob ?
He went on to say he read the original story.
>
Killtaker
In article <662b20$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, dsm...@pobox.com wrote:
>On 2 Dec 1997 19:55:11 GMT, ft...@aol.com (Fthx) wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>That is, Derek was not cooperating with Take2 before the release of the
game.
>
>Oh sure
>
Derek, I thought you killfiled FTHX? I say your killfile is a hoax; his email
adress and name havent changed, yet you keep responding to him with 1000+ line
entries. Jesus Christ, I thought you were gonna leave and not come back until
version 2.0? I know most of us have been praying for such a silence so we can
get back to our lives and forget about your insignifigant failure of a game.
Killtaker
Bob Luthardt
Killtaker <jas...@aol.com> wrote in article
<6644rh$9p...@theusc.csd.sc.edu>...
> In article <662b20$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, dsm...@pobox.com
wrote:
> >On 2 Dec 1997 19:55:11 GMT, ft...@aol.com (Fthx) wrote:
> Derek, I thought you killfiled FTHX? I say your killfile is a hoax; his
email
> adress and name havent changed, yet you keep responding to him with 1000+
line
> entries. Jesus Christ, I thought you were gonna leave and not come back
until
> version 2.0? I know most of us have been praying for such a silence so we
can
> get back to our lives and forget about your insignifigant failure of a
game.
>
> Killtaker
Kilta -
Maybe someone forwarded it to him via email.
I seem to recal Derek recently asking this be done anyway.
Hope this clears this little mystery up for you.
If not, try nytol - you'll be able to sleep fine, I assure you.
chris tilton
> > >Why don't you ask the
> > >author who reported it, his name is John Withers and can be reached at
> > >jpwit...@aol.com I'm sure he can answer this question because I
> cannot.
> >
> > I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story and
> Take2
> > declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not deny it.
>
> simple email to J Withers because you don't want to _harass him_!!??
> This is so insane.
Oh yeah, this whole bc3000 flamewar thing is something else. It's
like an ongoing soap opera. If nothing else it is enteraining to
occasionally browse the bc3000 posts and see what sort of name calling,
ranting, raving, and general abuse is being exchanged. It dies
down and once you think that it's ready to wither away, it comes
back - sorta like athletes foot... but more annoying.
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
J. Chris Tilton Twin Valley South Lady Panthers
proud Software Engineer Basketball starts December 2!
LEXIS-NEXIS
proud Reed/Elsevier Company Basketball, it's whats
937-865-6800 ext. 6042 for breakfast.
chris....@lexis-nexis.com
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/4722/
_______________________________________________________
bill.h...@sandiegoca.ncr.com
I
In article <661k6l$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Derek Smart <dsm...@pobox.com> wrote:
....snip...
>Now you're getting more ridiculous. There are dozens of posts explaining this
>in excrutiating detail. Here's a summary, you will have to do the extra work
>and find the original posts. I have better things to do with my time.
Apparently not based on the size of this rant.
>
>
>1. Take Two _did_ release the wrong version of the game. We were working on two
> different versions because I did NOT want to use their Chase dogfigting
> engine
In other words Derek's saying, "I couldn't work or agree on anything with
the rest ofthe BC3K development team."
>
>2. Once I was told that they were releasing 'what they had', I left. They
> released, '..what they had' knowing it to be incomplete. On attorney's
> instructions, I had uploaded my current version to the TT bbs we used for
> file transfers (I usually worked from home) and requested a performance of
> contract letter in order that I not be sued for abandonment. I got this.
>
> The whole Coke machine story was a fabrication and based on unsubstantiated
> accounts given to a reporter by a TT 'insider' in an attempt to justify
> their release of the game citing my 'absence' or 'unruly behavior'. To this
>
> day, TT deny the account, citing that that report never came from their
> people. I believe the reporter wrote what was told to him because he called
>
> me _before_ that and I explained what had happened. He never told me
> anything about the TT story. I became aware of it when I read it. There was
>
> NO way he could've known about Tom Rigas rampaging through the office that
>
> day unless someone had called and told him. Someone had to call and tell
> him because he caught me just before I left TT to return to Miami. How did
> he get my home phone number in Latrobe? It wasn't listed and only TT and my
> own team had it. I in turn told him to speak to my attorney, which he did.
> The whole thing about the Coke machine and cops showing up were all news to
> me until I was advised by the public. Even after that fateful day, I
> remained in Latrobe for 9 days, waiting for the performance contract, before
>
> I could leave. No cops came to my house. No one questioned me and Latrobe
> Police have no accounting of the matter as far as I'm told.
In other words, the longer and more irrelevant the rant, the more likely
that Derek is trying to hide an embarrassing truth.
>
>3. I did NOT know the game had shipped because I though they were bluffing
> and that it was another ploy to dissect my contract like they did when I
> left Miami and went up there.
In other words Derek's saying, "I believe everyone to be as big of a liar
as I am."
>
>4. I went out and bought a copy of the game from Best Buy so that I could see
> what had shipped. Here is what I found.
>
> - a box with old screen shots. NONE of them reflecting the game's current
> graphics state. Also contained features that were not in the game because
> they had either been (a) removed or (b) remain incomplete
>
> - a complex game without a manual
In other words Derek's saying, "Please believe that somehow I didn't know
they hadn't updated the manual."
>
> - a game that didn't work for more than 5 mins without crashing
In other words Derek's saying, "Please believe that somehow I didn't know
that my game was as buggy as hell."
>
> *That was Oct 1996
>
>5. Two days later, I released a patch which among other things, disabled parts
> of the Chase dogfighting engine and made the game somewhat playable. This
> is a version that I had left behind and yes, TT did master the wrong
> version regardless of whether the game was finished or not. A product that
>
> worked out of the box is better than one which doesn't.
In other words Derek's saying, "Please believe that I fixed it in only
two days when in fact the first patch was week(s) from release and the
first two patches were not really an improvement."
>
> From that point on, I contacted some folks and we got together forming a
> an official testing team for the BC3K. All dedicated gamers with nothing
> to gain other than to see a game they paid for, work.
>
>6. I proceeded to patch the game amidst widespread attacks on AOL, the media
> and here. At the time, no-one even knew what had happened. There were only
> rumors. I was pissed, confused and distressed. I did NOT think TT would
> release the game. At best, I thought that they would rethink the situation,
In other words Derek's saying, "Please believe that people were only
attacking me instead of just expressing frustration which provoked
attacks from me."
>
> give us more time to finish and take a royalty hit like I did when they
> re-did my contract in 1996 when it was decided that (a) the graphics had to
>
> be revamped (b) I had to bring the development 'in house' and use their
> artists, animators, programmers etc.
>
>7. Patching became an on-going event with NO support from TT once the game was
> released.
In other words Derek's saying, "The real online game was in full swing
and I was spending hours each day flaming and self-destructing for the
amusement of many."
>
>8. Once C4 was released, Gametek released the game in the UK and Europe because
> it was a better+stable version and also because, according to them, the bad
>
> US units were filtering into the UK.
>
> *That was Mar 1996
In other words Derek's saying, "Please forget that I said I wouldn't
support the Europe release and that I said Gametek released the wrong
version."
>
>9. By this time, people were buying the game and patching it to make it work.
> Coming to me for help and posting messages at the web site. The game still
>
> had problems as it was still not finished.
In other words Derek's saying, "People were starting to complain about me
not releasing a FAQ that I said was done."
>
>10. Then the most secure and significant patch C5.3 was released. By this time,
>
> it was obvious that I was (a) patching a game I wasn't going to make a penny
>
> on (b) doing tech support for the game was taking up too much of my time (c)
>
> I could not turn back on my gamers, so I pressed on.
>
> *That was in April 1996
In other words Derek's saying, "The online game was much more engrossing
and fun than patching BC3K, so I pressed on."
>
>11. During the lull following the release of C5.3 and my E3 trip, I had to make
>
> some decisions which would benefit the game and my company. It was
> pointless patching a game that probably would not get re-released
> regardless of TT promises to do this. I had already spent a half year
> trying to complete the game amidst doing tech support, engaging in flames
> etc. The game was only being patched to this extent because it was released
> incomplete. Whether or not it would have been finished within 6 months had
> it not been released, is speculatory. The fact of the matter is that I was
> not just patching the game, I was still working on completing features that
> were missing, incomplete or plain broken.
>
> I then decided that I had to come up with a plan that would (a) finish the
> game and give the gamers what they wanted and (b) give me something to
> show for my hardwork in the form of a title that could be released as a
> derivative product. How on Earth was I to release a *patched* game? (a) the
> retailers won't take it (b) TT had no intentions of re-releasing it (c) where
>
> the heck was I supposed to get the money from to do it? What was I supposed
> to do? Spend a year patching a game and resting on my laurels saying "..great
> now it's done, let me go do something that's going to pay my bills. Where do
> I start?"
In other words Derek's saying, "My tangled web of lies (like who was
suing who) was getting so confusing, I didn't know what to do."
>
>12. I then decided to enhance the game's graphics and feature set and have
> something that was worthy of a re-release, not a year-old title with outdated
> graphics and things everyone has already seen for a year. It's not like I was
>
> on anyone's deadline or anything. Had I not patched the game and left it as
> is, *every* copy would've been returned and I would still have been the bad
> guy because TT would have pointed the finger in my direction.
>
> It is sheer hard work and dedication that has brought the game this far and
> kept it where it is - MORE THAN A YEAR AFTER IT'S RELEASE. How many
> games released in that manner can boast this. Heck, good games are forgotten
> in a matter of weeks with all the choices the gamer has these days.
In other words Derek's saying, "The online game was paying off. It is
keeping BC3K in the lime-light."
In other words Derek's saying, "I'm a great guy and BC3K 2.0 will be
better than anything I've ever hyped before. Also, please forget that in
December 1995 I said the game was complete and after fixing a few bugs
and finishing the manual BC3K will be ready for a January 1996 release."
>
>14. At the moment a complaint is about to be filed in the NY courts which TT is
>going to have a hard time defending if they don't tell me where the existing
>units are. We've been working on a mutual resolution which releases them of all
>rights to the original title and all it's derivative works and allows me to do
>what I please. They want the rights to continue selling the old units because
>according to them, they have obligations to distributors. I have asked them to
>make a warranty indicating how many there were and where they were. We're still
>waiting for this info. At the end of the day, I don't want TT mastering v1.00
>units knowing that a v2.0 enhancement exists. Even if the stores didn't take it
>(which they won't), it can still be sold thru other channels. When it comes to
>making money, no-one gives a shit about the morals associated with the
>endeavour. BC3K had sold every unit that was mastered and I do not believe that
>units exist in any warehouse anywhere because not many were mastered in the US.
>To date we estimate that BC3K, regardless of it's history and premature
>release, has sold in excess of 100K units worldwide. All because of me. Units
>for which I did not get paid. To date, I have not received a single sheet of
>paper from TT or Gametek about my royalties and sales reports. I am being told
>that the game has not sold enough units to warrant royalty payments in lieu of
>their development expenses. It's been more than a year. Several letters
>requesting same have gone ignored and TT continue to operate on their own
>terms. I continue to complete a game I started on in 1989.
In other words Derek's saying, "I'm a great guy that is being persecuted
and picked on by everyone. I really wish I could sue somebody for
something."
>
>Finally, I was to touch on the issues of a manual, broken promises and the
>whereabouts of Elvis.
>
>Manual - You CAN'T do a manual for a game that is not finished, especially for
>a game as complex as BC3K. I made several attempts at releasing 'a manual' this
>past year but better judgement told me not to. Amidst pressure, I sat down and
>did one which was released a few months ago as a Preview. I am glad I took that
>advice from Mark Asher, Mr detractor extraordinaire himself (hi Mark! <g>) et
>al. It was a wise choice because it opened the gamers to the nature of the
>beast. It wasn't that I was making broken promises. It couldn't be done and I
>was scared that I would do a bad job considering I barely had time to do
>anything but program. I had never written a manual before and when the press
>types who saw it said it was good, I was shocked and still am. Before that
>point, all I had were manuscripts, design docs, diagrams etc. All what TT
>needed to use in order to do a manual. THEY couldn't do one for the same
>reason. Heck, they released and incomplete game, what good would a manual be?
In other words Derek's saying, "Please forget that I promised a manual
almost every weekend for months. Please forget I said the manual was
done months before the half completed manual was released with the CGW
demo."
>
>Broken Promises - Gimme a break. If you had to write a game as complex as this,
>
>co-ordinate a development and testing team, deal with attorneys and
>disreputable publishers, engage in meaningless and pointless flame-wars, toss
>your bank statements in the bin knowing there's no need to reconcile them and
>spend minutes wondering if you really should've read it, panic at any email or
>post that starts off with '..Dear Mr fuckhead, about this game...' or "..hey,
>Derek, your game sucks!", respond to HUNDREDS of posts from gamers, flamers and
>folks trying to sell you on-line access to the best XXX site on the net because
>they think you have no life, look at your dedicated partner in the face in the
>morning and say "..sorry honey, couldn't come to bed last night, did you sleep
>well?" which then leads to a meaningless argument bordering on questions
>regarding your sanity and when you finally get to sleep you dream about how you
>single-handedly and without help, fucked up your _entire_ life and career over
>a game, YOU too would slip release dates.
In other words Derek's saying, "Please forget that I lied and that I
authored many vulgar and personally insulting posts."
>
>If you have a rewarding life, career, job and a family to go home to, be
>thankful because you could be me. Can you handle it?
>
>Go your way folks and leave me be. I have done you no harm. I just wanted to
>write this game.
In other words Derek's saying, "Please forget that my PhD is a fraud."
>
>
>Derek Smart, Ph.D. NOT!
Nice rant Derek. You must have reviewed it. It is much more literate
than most of your rants.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Jorge Diaz
In article <881160589.7636.0...@news.demon.co.uk>,
Jon Ballinger <jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>All hail Bill's latest witty remark!
>Jeez, come up with something different.
Just this afternoon I've counted no less than four posts to which Derek
followed up, quoted the whole thing, and wrote nothing more than
LOL
on the bottom. And you want to talk about 'witty remarks'?
--
Jorge Diaz | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology | the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology | moments... my hand at your throat. I want
cco...@oit.gatech.edu | you to remember the one man who beat you."
Jonathan Normington
Jon Ballinger recently wrote:
>People who ask legitimate queries about the game do not get flamed. Only
>the people who make personal attacks do.
What utter bollocks. I'm only here because Derek flamed me after I
posted a "legitimate query" about his game (and I only resorted to
posting it because the answer I got from Derek via e-mail was totally
unhelpful, and condescending to boot).
--
Jonathan Normington
http://www.souragne.demon.co.uk/
ICQ: 3941294
Jimmy Chan
Jon Ballinger (jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk) wrote:
:#All hail Bill's latest witty remark!
The legendary Jon Kafka Ballinger is back. Pretty long hiatus there,
planning on calling anyone else racist? Never seen an apology considering
that you call someone a racist publicly, you should apologize publicly.
:#Jeez, come up with something different.
Guess he'll call someone a racist then.
Liam Edgeley
Derek Smart wrote in message <661k6l$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
<SNIP>
>Go your way folks and leave me be. I have done you no harm. I just wanted
to
>write this game.
Considering he's been paid nothing for this game so far, I think Derek Smart
is doing a pretty nice job of completing this game. Keep up the good work -
I for one would bay $50 for version 2.
Liam Edgeley
P.S. Thanks for all your technical help, including which patch to d/l etc..
Derek Smart
On 3 Dec 1997 13:41:38 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
<snip>
>Derek
>While your supporters will agree with you and will continue to support this
>and future efforts, there will be those who, regardless of the truth, will
>find reason to argue, bicker, insult, and torment you. There are about 3 of
>them who have a sincere hatred for you, but the vast majority are going to
>be the ones who like to peer over the shoulders of bullies shouting "yeah,
>what _he_ said!" at you.
<snip>
Thanks for the words of advice and encouragement. Your support, whether you're
a detractor, supporter or sitting on the fence is appreciated and it's the life
line that I cling to.
Thanks to all of you.
Derek Smart
On 3 Dec 1997 15:04:59 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
>
>
>Jon Ballinger <jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
><881160537.7609.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> Riboflavin wrote in message <662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
>>
>> >And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the last
>time
>> >Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
>
>Sid Meier is a confirmed jerk. A friend of mine works at Microprose in Hunt
>Valley, and has had nothing but smiles on his face since SM left. And I've
>heard this from people on the Magic The Gathering dev team as well. He's
>abusive, abrasive, and _loves_ to humiliate people.
>
>Please, Rib. Don't assume - make informed decisions.
>
I've heard this too but do not wish to comment any further. I respect the man's
work and do not base my opinion on his personal attributes.
Derek Smart
On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:22:12 -0500, chris tilton <chris....@lexis-nexis.com>
wrote:
>> > >Why don't you ask the
>> > >author who reported it, his name is John Withers and can be reached at
>> > >jpwit...@aol.com I'm sure he can answer this question because I
>> cannot.
>> >
>> > I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story and
>> Take2
>> > declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not deny it.
>>
>> Now I'm confused. You don't mind harrasing Dr. Smart, but you won't send a
>> simple email to J Withers because you don't want to _harass him_!!??
>> This is so insane.
> ^^^^^^
>
>Oh yeah, this whole bc3000 flamewar thing is something else. It's
>like an ongoing soap opera. If nothing else it is enteraining to
>occasionally browse the bc3000 posts and see what sort of name calling,
>ranting, raving, and general abuse is being exchanged. It dies
>down and once you think that it's ready to wither away, it comes
>back - sorta like athletes foot... but more annoying.
<lol>
Okay, the post was lethal and clearly designed to induce a bout of spluttering.
Derek Smart
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:41:46 +0000, Jonathan Normington
<rep...@souragne.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Jon Ballinger recently wrote:
>
>>People who ask legitimate queries about the game do not get flamed. Only
>>the people who make personal attacks do.
>
>What utter bollocks. I'm only here because Derek flamed me after I
>posted a "legitimate query" about his game (and I only resorted to
>posting it because the answer I got from Derek via e-mail was totally
>unhelpful, and condescending to boot).
Okay, lets see the posts you lying sack o' shit. I have an _entire_ database of
Agent posts from you. Jon Ballinger does too. Hey Jon, do a search on this
fool's id and shove the results down his throat.
It's one thing to face the music and it's another to cower in the shadows when
faced with adversity.
Derek Smart
Thanks for your support Liam. I just posted a newsbrief at www.game-wire.com
that you might want to check out.
Derek Smart
On Wed, 03 Dec 97 17:30:29 GMT, jas...@aol.com (Killtaker) wrote:
>In article <662b20$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, dsm...@pobox.com wrote:
>>On 2 Dec 1997 19:55:11 GMT, ft...@aol.com (Fthx) wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>That is, Derek was not cooperating with Take2 before the release of the
>game.
>>
>>Oh sure
>>
>
>
>Derek, I thought you killfiled FTHX? I say your killfile is a hoax; his email
>adress and name havent changed, yet you keep responding to him with 1000+ line
>entries. Jesus Christ, I thought you were gonna leave and not come back until
>version 2.0?
>
>Killtaker
Listen to me. IF you read my post in another thread, I have the right to do
what I want when I want. My post to FTHX and his girlfriends was designed to
reply to them about specific issues for the benefit of new readers and put my
response in file that I can just cut and paste as needed. If you go back and
see, I have done 3 posts which are very, very long. Anytime one of these fools
brings up that kind of stuff, I'm gonna cut and paste the whole thing as a
reply.
>I know most of us have been praying for such a silence so we can
>get back to our lives and forget about your insignifigant failure of a game.
Yes, of course you would say this, when I was silent what the heck were fthx,
bill pullman, Riboflavin and that other degenerate-wanna Baz doing? Posting!
Where were you then? Oh, lemme guess you're just another one of their alter
egos hiding behind a newly created fake address.
Coward.
Derek Smart
On 3 Dec 1997 18:29:43 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
>
>
>Killtaker <jas...@aol.com> wrote in article
><6644rh$9p...@theusc.csd.sc.edu>...
>> In article <662b20$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, dsm...@pobox.com
>wrote:
>> >On 2 Dec 1997 19:55:11 GMT, ft...@aol.com (Fthx) wrote:
>> Derek, I thought you killfiled FTHX? I say your killfile is a hoax; his
>email
>> adress and name havent changed, yet you keep responding to him with 1000+
>line
>> entries. Jesus Christ, I thought you were gonna leave and not come back
>until
>> version 2.0? I know most of us have been praying for such a silence so we
>can
>> get back to our lives and forget about your insignifigant failure of a
>game.
>>
>> Killtaker
>
>Kilta -
>Maybe someone forwarded it to him via email.
>I seem to recal Derek recently asking this be done anyway.
>
>Hope this clears this little mystery up for you.
>If not, try nytol - you'll be able to sleep fine, I assure you.
Nah, he should try Nitrol. More potent.
Bill Huffman
In article <6644mm$n...@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
sixball <six...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On 3 Dec 1997 15:04:59 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Jon Ballinger <jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
>><881160537.7609.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>>time
>>> >Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
>>
>>Valley, and has had nothing but smiles on his face since SM left. And I've
>>heard this from people on the Magic The Gathering dev team as well. He's
>>abusive, abrasive, and _loves_ to humiliate people.
>>
>>Please, Rib. Don't assume - make informed decisions.
>>
>>
>go to the top and try again.
>
>BTW what you stated is hear say and is only one side of the story.
>Means zippo.
Well Bob is very fond of stating that he likes to assume people
are innocent until proven guilty. So he must have some pretty
darn strong proof that Sid Meier is a "confirmed jerk". After all,
he's totally convinced that Derek's PhD is valid even though
multiple people have searched Dissertations Abstract International
and have concluded that no Derek K****-Smart is listed. And even
though Derek is unable to explain how he prevented publication
but still get a PhD and even though Derek is unable to say where
he went to school. It must be damn good evidence that Sid Meier
is a "confirmed jerk" to convince Mr. Innocent-Until-Proven-Guilty.
Riboflavin
Bob Luthardt wrote in message <01bcfffc$6f1f6060$bafdfbce@luthardt>...
>
>
>Jon Ballinger <jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
><881160537.7609.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> Riboflavin wrote in message <662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
>>
>> >And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the last
>time
>> >Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
>
>Sid Meier is a confirmed jerk. A friend of mine works at Microprose in Hunt
>Valley, and has had nothing but smiles on his face since SM left. And I've
>heard this from people on the Magic The Gathering dev team as well. He's
>abusive, abrasive, and _loves_ to humiliate people.
>Please, Rib. Don't assume - make informed decisions.
And like I said, when was the last time he felt it neccessary to flame a
customer? Please, point me to somewhere where he comes into the newsgroups
and starts flaming away at people. I don't care if he's a jerk or not, what
I care about is does to his paying customers. Find Sid making a rant on this
newsgroup about what an idiot one of his customers is. His private actions
are of little concern to me.
Derek could yell at people who work with him, laugh his ass off as he
answers questions, and walk into work naked every day for all I care. It's
when he comes into the newsgroups and starts flaming people and bragging
about how great he is ("smarter than you can possibly imagine") that
attracts my flamage.
Also I would note that you've called for firm proof of everything and ranted
about innocent until proven guilty, yet now you're expecting us to believe
your unverified personal anecdote against Sid. Pot, kettle, black.
Riboflavin
Derek Smart wrote in message <664kja$m...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>On 3 Dec 1997 15:04:59 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net> wrote:
>I've heard this too but do not wish to comment any further. I respect the
man's
>work and do not base my opinion on his personal attributes.
>
Idiot. I don't base my opinion of you on your PERSONAL attributes, I base my
opinion on your PUBLIC behavior. One day maybe you'll learn the difference.
Oh, and you saying that you've heard this too makes me inclined to
disbelieve it.
Riboflavin
Bob Luthardt wrote in message <01bcfffb$efce9a60$bafdfbce@luthardt>...
>Riboflavin <ri...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
>>
>> I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story and
>Take2
>> declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not deny it.
>
>Now I'm confused. You don't mind harrasing Dr. Smart, but you won't send a
>simple email to J Withers because you don't want to _harass him_!!??
>This is so insane.
Bob, have you read a single post by me in the last week? I harass Derek
because he comes to the newsgroups and is an ass on them. Please, point me
to an article where jpwit...@aol.com came to the newsgroup and started
talking about someone smelling the mousse or how is girlfriend is more
beautiful than you can possibly type.
Riboflavin
Derek Smart wrote in message <664l5m$m...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>Thanks for your support Liam. I just posted a newsbrief at
www.game-wire.com
>that you might want to check out.
>
Hey Derek, you don't need to follow up your own posts with posts from your
real email address. We know that Jon Ballinger and all of your girlfriends
are just you switching your email address around.
(two can play at this game)
Riboflavin
Correction to what? More proof that Taco Supreme Commander, WHS is losing
his mind...
Derek Smart wrote in message <662h11$e...@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>:correction
>
>>The version control file which lists the first official patch as dated
11/06/96
>>is at the bottom of this post. The game was released in October. I have
*every*
>>patch written for it in. Do you? The date of BC3000AD.DAT is dated
9-23-96. The
>>file date on the TT v1.00 cd-rom is 10-1-96.
Riboflavin
Derek Smart wrote in message <664ld8$m...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>On Wed, 03 Dec 97 17:30:29 GMT, jas...@aol.com (Killtaker) wrote:
>>Derek, I thought you killfiled FTHX? I say your killfile is a hoax; his
email
>>adress and name havent changed, yet you keep responding to him with 1000+
line
>>entries. Jesus Christ, I thought you were gonna leave and not come back
until
>>version 2.0?
>>
>>Killtaker
>
>Listen to me. IF you read my post in another thread, I have the right to do
>what I want when I want.
So, logically, if he doesn't read your post in the other thread, you don't
have the right to do what you want when you want?
>My post to FTHX and his girlfriends
Damn, I'm feeling raw today...
>was designed to
>reply to them about specific issues for the benefit of new readers and put
my
>response in file that I can just cut and paste as needed.
True, but this means your killfile is not working, right?
> If you go back and
>see, I have done 3 posts which are very, very long. Anytime one of these
fools
>brings up that kind of stuff, I'm gonna cut and paste the whole thing as a
>reply.
Yeah, Derek, we all believe that. You've gone back into long, rambling,
nutty reply mode. I'll be ready to cut and paste my old flames of your old
material each time you post them. Oh, and how will you know what we talk
about? The killfile not working again?
>>I know most of us have been praying for such a silence so we can
>>get back to our lives and forget about your insignifigant failure of a
game.
>
>Yes, of course you would say this, when I was silent what the heck were
fthx,
>bill pullman, Riboflavin and that other degenerate-wanna Baz doing?
Posting!
You weren't silent, oh Smarter than we can possibly imagine, you just didn't
respond directly to us.
>Where were you then? Oh, lemme guess you're just another one of their alter
>egos hiding behind a newly created fake address.
Look, John Ballinger, sorry, I meant Ironman, sorry I meant Derek Smart,
this "all the detractors are the same person" bit doesn't convince anyone.
>Coward.
That's right! Posting anything to a newsgroup is a sure sign that you're a
coward. Derek smart gets his power from God!
Riboflavin
I hereby vote that we call Jon Ballinger "Kafka" until he apologizes for the
accusations of racism.
Jon Ballinger wrote in message
<881160537.7609.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>Riboflavin wrote in message <662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
>You don't feel like harassing him as you don't want your little dreamworld
>view of Derek to be punctured.
>Hell, you're probably one of those people who believe every word in the
>Tabloids!
Kafka. Point me to somewhere where Take2 DENIES (not declines to comment,
but actually DENIES) the Coke machine incident. I read the article, and
Take2 had no comment on the matter.
>[snip]
>
>Denials or no comments don't mean shit unless someone confirms it other
than
>a cheap shot story ran a year ago.
Derek claimed that Take2 had DENIED the incident, when in reality Take2
declined to comment. Those are not the same thing. Therefore, Derek is lying
about the incident, which generally means that there is something he's
really worried about in there somewhere.
>Crap. Release slippage is common place. The game is almost complete and a
>vast number of people are playing it and enjoying it. A few ignorant
people
>are attacking Derek when they, understandably, started off attacking the
>game. Now the game is all but fixed they've gotta get their jollys
>elsewhere.
Release slippage may well be commonplace, but bragging about the incomplete
game (even you admit it's not complete), flaming customers, boasting of how
great you are, lying about past events, and giving 'personal guarantess'
that always fall through isn't. Get a clue, Kafka.
>[snip]
>
>>> So, some of you don't like me. Who gives a shit? I sho as
>>>hell don't.
>>
>>If you don't care, then why do you keep responding to us? If you really
>>didn't care, all you'd have to do is actually killfile us (and stop asking
>>people to email things to you), and ignore us. Of course you give a shit,
>>you spend all this time making these ludocras rants.
>
>There's nothing more ludicrous than someone ranting and raving to Derek
>about killfiles
Now let's see, Kafka. Derek claims to have killfiled all of the detractors.
Derek also knows who is and isn't posting, and responds to material from the
'killfiled' people. Derek just posted a bunch of responses directly to
'killfiled' people. Conclusion: Derek either doesn't have a killfile or
doesn't know how to use one.
Derek claims not to give a shit about the detractors. Derek posts several
thousand lines of responses to detractors in one day. Conclusion: Derek
either is using 'give a shit' in a usage which no one else does, or Derek
does give a shit.
>and coke machines.
So why doesn't he just ignore the Coke machine bit? He does like to make up
Take2 denials of it, doesn't he?
>Most of the detractors seem unduly
>obsessed with bringing down Derek and BC3K..
Most of us like to make fun of idiots.
> It's about time that you
>realised that you have no effect at all on the real world.
I have plenty of effect on the real world, but none from what I post on
Usenet. It's people like you who think that I expect Usenet posts to bring
about World Peace that are funny.
>Usenet is a forum which is invariably full of moaners. Like the moaners
>that sit on a park bench and whine to every one else who stops and sits
>down.
So use a killfile properly, Kafka.
>>And again, Derek, how is someone saying they have a problem with the game
>>insulting you? Yet you've always (up until the recent rash of niceness)
>>found it neccessary to flame them. And YOU were the one who hyped up the
>>unfinished piece of junk that Take2 foisted on the world.
>
>People who ask legitimate queries about the game do not get flamed. Only
>the people who make personal attacks do.
Oh really? I'll go hit DejaNews if fthx doesn't post a few legitimate
queries answered with flames. Come on John, you've been watching this a long
time.
>Okay, try this for an experiment. By something from a hardware store.
Lets
>say it didn't work, a broken part or something.
>
>You take it back and say "This doesn't work, this bits broken. And by the
>way you're an asshole muthafucka."
>
>Think you'd still get served?
Okay, try this for an experiment. Open a hardware store. Someone comes in
and says "This doesn't work, this bit doesn't fit into this bit. How can I
get it to work?"
Respond to them with "Only a complete idiot wouldn't know how that works.
You're probably just a detractor in disguise. You know what? Fuck you!"
Think you'd still have customers?
>>And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the last time
>>Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
>
>Different types of people.
Yes, one set knows how to conduct business, the set with Derek doesn't.
>>>As a living breathing human being, I have the right to
>>>defend myself as I see fit.
>>
>>And as a living breathing human being, I have the right to call a moronic
>>asshole a moronic asshole.
>
>Go find the nearest mirror then, that'll do it.
Ohh, Kafka, I'm hurt.
>>Also, you ignore the fact that most of the people you insulted WERE ASKING
>>FOR HELP WITH THE GAME, not flaming you.
>
>Bull.
Sure, John, ignore the past.
>>Or perhaps the voices in your head give you some instructions.
>
>Now you're saying he has psychological problems? Hehe, he's remarkably
sane
>if you think about the amount of crap he's had to take from people like
you.
Cleve, Kafka, and Derek are all unable to tell the difference between a joke
and an actual accusation of drug abuse or mental instability.
>>> How many of you would even say shit to my face if we
>>>ran into each other at a trade show.
>>
>>I have no idea what you're like in person. If I ran into a person who
>>started telling me how they were smarter than I could possibly imagine,
I'd
>>laugh at them in RL too.
>
>I'm sure you would. Even if it were true?
ROTFL. I can imagine someone smart enough to use an FTP client. Derek has
posted about his inability to do so. Therefore, Derek is not smarter than I
could possibly imagine.
>It's down to Derek to quit is it? Why not you? Takes two to tango.
Because I'm entertained by this. I don't want it to stop, Derek does.
Therefore, if Derek wishes it to stop, he is the one that needs to take
action (or lack of action, as the case may be).
Riboflavin
Derek Smart wrote in message <664l48$m...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>Okay, lets see the posts you lying sack o' shit. I have an _entire_
database of
>Agent posts from you. Jon Ballinger does too. Hey Jon, do a search on this
>fool's id and shove the results down his throat.
Derek, you know people have records of you flaming people with simple
questions. Why do you keep doing this?
Oh, and Derek, OF COURSE you and Jon Ballinger both have a database of Agent
posts. You're all the same person. Funny, isn't it, how Jon only came out of
the woodwork someone cracked about you two being the same person?
(two can play that game...)
>It's one thing to face the music and it's another to cower in the shadows
when
>faced with adversity.
>
Whatever that means.
Bob
Derek Smart wrote:
> Okay, lets see the posts you lying sack o' shit. I have an _entire_
> database of
> Agent posts from you. Jon Ballinger does too. Hey Jon, do a search on
> this
> fool's id and shove the results down his throat.
Too bad you didn't put as much effort into your game.
Pat Lundrigan
Fthx <ft...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971203210...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Guess I'm out of the killfile, huh?
>
> For the Derekological record, here are some responses.
>
> Taco Supreme Commander said:
> >
> >huh???? Someone _please_ get this guy some help. On www.game-wire.com is
a
> >post
> >that details my experiences with Take Two's lack of support for the
game. I
> >received over FOUR THOUSAND responds. Take Two has NEVER supported this
game.
> >Show me ONE gamer who got ANY assistance from Take Two. Just ONE. And
what
> >was
> >it they helped with. Take Two *ONLY* allocated web space when I
threatened to
> >sue and made my gripes public. [snip]
Uhh, My game didn't come with a registration card, and layne at Take2
emailed where to send
registration by email.
/////////////////////////
Pat Lundrigan
////////////////////////
Dan Brooks
OK, Jonathan. Please repost that "legitimate query" so others can
judge whether there was a "personal" smell to it.
Otherwise, what utter bullocks.
Dan Brooks
===============================
Computer Rescue
St. Louis, MO
HOME OF THE ST. LOUIS BLUES!
e-mail: comput...@msn.com
===============================
Jonathan Normington wrote in message
<9w$1tGA6X...@souragne.demon.co.uk>...
|Jon Ballinger recently wrote:
|
|>People who ask legitimate queries about the game do not get flamed.
Only
|>the people who make personal attacks do.
|
|What utter bollocks. I'm only here because Derek flamed me after I
|posted a "legitimate query" about his game (and I only resorted to
|posting it because the answer I got from Derek via e-mail was totally
|unhelpful, and condescending to boot).
|
Dan Brooks
Riboflavin wrote in message <664v8j$m...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
|Derek Smart wrote in message
<664l48$m...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
|>Okay, lets see the posts you lying sack o' shit. I have an _entire_
|database of
|>Agent posts from you. Jon Ballinger does too. Hey Jon, do a search
on this
|>fool's id and shove the results down his throat.
|
|
|Derek, you know people have records of you flaming people with simple
|questions. Why do you keep doing this?
|
Examples, please.
Otherwise, utter bullocks.
Dan
Dan Brooks
sixball wrote in message <6644mm$n...@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
|On 3 Dec 1997 15:04:59 GMT, "Bob Luthardt" <luth...@clark.net>
wrote:
|
|>
|>
|>Jon Ballinger <jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote in
article
|><881160537.7609.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
|>> Riboflavin wrote in message <662g9m$o...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
|>>
|>> >And you keep making them and keep paying the price. When was the
last
|>time
|>> >Sid Meier or Brad Wardell felt it neccessary to flame a customer?
|>
|>Sid Meier is a confirmed jerk. A friend of mine works at Microprose
in Hunt
|>Valley, and has had nothing but smiles on his face since SM left.
And I've
|>heard this from people on the Magic The Gathering dev team as well.
He's
|>abusive, abrasive, and _loves_ to humiliate people.
|>
|>Please, Rib. Don't assume - make informed decisions.
|>
|>
|Maybe you didn't read the question to well
|go to the top and try again.
|
|BTW what you stated is hear say and is only one side of the story.
|Means zippo.
LOLOLOLOL. Now, apply that standard to YOUR trash.
Thought so.
Dan Brooks
Riboflavin wrote in message <664qd7$s...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
|
|Bob Luthardt wrote in message
<01bcfffb$efce9a60$bafdfbce@luthardt>...
|>Riboflavin <ri...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
|
|>>
|>> I don't feel like harassing him, since I read the original story
and
|>Take2
|>> declined to comment on the Coke Machine incident, they did not
deny it.
|>
|>Now I'm confused. You don't mind harrasing Dr. Smart, but you won't
send a
|>simple email to J Withers because you don't want to _harass him_!!??
|>This is so insane.
|
|
|Bob, have you read a single post by me in the last week? I harass
Derek
|because he comes to the newsgroups and is an ass on them. Please,
point me
|to an article where jpwit...@aol.com came to the newsgroup and
started
|talking about someone smelling the mousse or how is girlfriend is
more
|beautiful than you can possibly type.
|
|--
Thank god there are people like you policing the newsgroups for asses.
I feel so much safer.
Sorry, but "get a life" REALLY applies here. I though I was rid of
bullies like you when I graduated grammer school.
Dan
BaZ
Derek Smart wrote:
> I have, at several times tried to be rational and explain things in a rational
> manner but responses are frought with misconceptions, accusations and downright
> blatant lies to the point that you all just look plain silly, simply because I
> am still doing what I set out to do and have proven, beyond a doubt, that I was
> on to something good, something worth fighting for and something worth saving.
>
Ok. Explain why you said that you are Novell certified and yet, Novell knows
nothing of you? Call the Novell Training number yourself and say: "Do you keep
records on who you certify? You do? Can you look up Derek Smart for me? They will
say, "Never heard of him." Here's the number - 800-233-3382 (It's an 800 number
so that you won't need to add 10 cents a minute to your 3 million dollar investment
in BM3K)
BaZ
PS: see your buddy Cleve's idol Ayn Rand grow a mustache and say "I love you Cleve"
and see you head get so big it explodes at the web address below...
--
<preemptive yawn>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Remove the PhD in my e-mail address to reply
Contact Derek Smart At: suprem...@bc3000ad.com or dsm...@pobox.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See the Taco Supreme Commanders | "Some areas aboard the
Head Grow So Big It Explodes! | BattleCruiser are currently
See Ayn Rand Grow A Mustache And Say | off-line due to refitting.
That She Loves Cleve at: | All systems should be on-line
http://www.aros.net/~baz/tacblow.html | shortly." - Derek Smart, PhD
--------------------------------------|
Now THAT Smarts! |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm not sure where you go (sic) this boyo,
but it sho 'nuf didn't come from me." -D. Smart
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BaZ
Bob Luthardt wrote:
> Sid Meier is a confirmed jerk. A friend of mine works at Microprose in Hunt
> Valley, and has had nothing but smiles on his face since SM left. And I've
> heard this from people on the Magic The Gathering dev team as well. He's
> abusive, abrasive, and _loves_ to humiliate people.
>
Sounds like Derek... Maybe you should start quoting all of Sids posts for him
too. You remind me of that little furry lapdog of Jabba the Huts...
BaZ
BaZ
Derek Smart wrote:
> Manual - You CAN'T do a manual for a game that is not finished, especially for
> a game as complex as BC3K.
This is utter horse crap. Of course you can. Ever heard of a REVISED MANUAL? You
just never got on top of it and you won't admit it.
> ...if my reluctance to tell YOU where who the granting body is means that I
> don't have a Ph.D., then there's this bridge I'd like to sell you. Furthermore,
Ok. Forget the PhD for a sec. Tell us your Novell Training ID... Novell has never
heard of you and you said that you were Novell Certified. here, call them
yourself. (800) 233-3382
James Thompson
This about sums up the whole BC3K experience.
> I have, at several times tried to be rational ........
Jon Ballinger
If it'll stop you acting stupid then I apologize.
--
Jon Ballinger
3D Graphics Toolkit: http://www.jabsystems.demon.co.uk
BC3K sci-fi story: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
Riboflavin wrote in message <664v4e$m...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
Jon Ballinger
I've been around a while buddy. Just been busy with RL.
--
Jon Ballinger
3D Graphics Toolkit: http://www.jabsystems.demon.co.uk
BC3K sci-fi story: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
Riboflavin wrote in message <664v8j$m...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
>Oh, and Derek, OF COURSE you and Jon Ballinger both have a database of
Agent
>posts. You're all the same person. Funny, isn't it, how Jon only came out
of
>the woodwork someone cracked about you two being the same person?
>
>(two can play that game...)
>
>>It's one thing to face the music and it's another to cower in the shadows
>when
>>faced with adversity.
>>
>Whatever that means.
Jimmy Chan
Derek Smart (dsm...@pobox.com) wrote:
:#Now you're getting more ridiculous. There are dozens of posts explaining this
:#in excrutiating detail. Here's a summary, you will have to do the extra work
:#and find the original posts. I have better things to do with my time.
Since I asked for this and now have the time to really read the post, here
goes.
:#1. Take Two _did_ release the wrong version of the game. We were working on two
:# different versions because I did NOT want to use their Chase dogfigting
:# engine
:#2. Once I was told that they were releasing 'what they had', I left. They
:# released, '..what they had' knowing it to be incomplete. On attorney's
:# instructions, I had uploaded my current version to the TT bbs we used for
:# file transfers (I usually worked from home) and requested a performance of
:# contract letter in order that I not be sued for abandonment. I got this.
Still don't see a current version other than what was released. Seeing as
you have SOLE control of the software now. I still didn't see it offered to
legitimate buyers of the original software. It stills leads me to question
whether the so-called current version you uploaded to the TT bbs was no
better than the one they published. You still went on to patch a buggy
software, you still didn't answer the question of where is the other
software.
<Coke machine rant deleted. Never asked about the coke machine, whether it
is true or not is your word against TT. Neither of you have a good track
record in honesty, though of course they don't come ranting in these
newsgroups.>
:#3. I did NOT know the game had shipped because I though they were bluffing
:# and that it was another ploy to dissect my contract like they did when I
:# left Miami and went up there.
Why would they be bluffing? Wasn't the released date of the game kept
moving up? I don't know the actual release dates but there have been many
postings of BC3K release dates slipping.
:#4. I went out and bought a copy of the game from Best Buy so that I could see
:# what had shipped. Here is what I found.
:# - a box with old screen shots. NONE of them reflecting the game's current
:# graphics state. Also contained features that were not in the game because
:# they had either been (a) removed or (b) remain incomplete
Can't comment on this.
:# - a complex game without a manual
Well considering how long you took to even get a preview manual out, I'm
not surprised.
:# - a game that didn't work for more than 5 mins without crashing
:# *That was Oct 1996
:#5. Two days later, I released a patch which among other things, disabled parts
:# of the Chase dogfighting engine and made the game somewhat playable. This
:# is a version that I had left behind and yes, TT did master the wrong
:# version regardless of whether the game was finished or not. A product that
:# worked out of the box is better than one which doesn't.
This is confusing. The patch you released later is the one that would be
just like in the version that TT didn't master? Considering that the patch
didn't really do much for the game and if your so-called other version is
based on this patch then your so-called other version doesn't seem to be
any better than the one that TT released. A friend has the first patch and
it wasn't much better.
<Rest removed for brevity>
--
==============================ji...@hawaii.edu===============================
Killtaker
>Listen to me. IF you read my post in another thread, I have the right to do
>reply to them about specific issues for the benefit of new readers and put my
>see, I have done 3 posts which are very, very long. Anytime one of these fools
>brings up that kind of stuff, I'm gonna cut and paste the whole thing as a
>reply.
Dammit Derek, it was a direct reply to a post by "FT...@AOL.COM", not one of
his "girlfriends" as you put it. You were reading an original post. Yr
Killfile, like your PHD, is a big lie.
>Yes, of course you would say this, when I was silent what the heck were fthx,
>bill pullman, Riboflavin and that other degenerate-wanna Baz doing? Posting!
>Where were you then? Oh, lemme guess you're just another one of their alter
>egos hiding behind a newly created fake address.
"Paranoia strikes deep."
>Coward.
Liar. Fraud. Sheep Rapist. etc...
>
killtaker
}
Riboflavin
Killtaker wrote in message <6657ih$am...@theusc.csd.sc.edu>...
>Dammit Derek, it was a direct reply to a post by "FT...@AOL.COM", not one of
>his "girlfriends" as you put it. You were reading an original post. Yr
>Killfile, like your PHD, is a big lie.
But of course...
>
>Liar. Fraud. Sheep Rapist. etc...
Quit making up insults to Derek! Those sheep were willing...
Riboflavin
Fthx wrote in message <19971204054...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>Considering he's been paid nothing for this game so far, I think Derek
Smart
>>is doing a pretty nice job of completing this game.
>
>This is one of the many Big Lies that is still floating around on Planet
Derek.
> Although Derek Smart has indeed been paid for a finished game, he has yet
to
>deliver one. How many more years, Derek? Taco Boy, go ahead and say it
right
>here, that Take2 and your many other publishers have never paid you. We're
all
>due for a new round of "fuck you"'s, while you're at it. If the strain
gets to
>be too much for you, I suggest that you attack another vending machine.
fthx, I think we may be being too hard on Derek with the vending machine
bit. I am under the distinct impression that it made a yawning sound shortly
before Derek's assault, and thus in Derek's world his assault was
self-defense. Perhaps we should say "Derek, I suggest you go defend yourself
against another vending machine."
(preemptive yawn)
Jon Ballinger
Real Life......
--
Jon Ballinger
3D Graphics Toolkit: http://www.jabsystems.demon.co.uk
BC3K sci-fi story: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
sixball wrote in message <6669tg$5...@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>...
>On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:11:09 -0000, "Jon Ballinger"
><jon.ba...@jabsystems.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I've been around a while buddy. Just been busy with RL.
>>
>>--
>RL ????
sixball
>
>
>LOLOLOLOL. Now, apply that standard to YOUR trash.
>
>Thought so.
Thought what ?? whats a so ?
Oh your right Derek is a really nice but misunderstood guy that never
told a lie and not only has a Phd but actially has two of them.
LOL
Hey Dan are one of Derek's secret friends are you ?
Whats your rank in the Taco Empire's command structure ?
Oh wait maybe you're Derek posting with a fake address, yeeaa thats
must be it.
Keep up the good work Dan you may save the Empire yet.
Seeya
Bill
>
>
sixball
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:55:22 -0000, "Liam Edgeley"
<phi...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>Derek Smart wrote in message <661k6l$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
><SNIP>
>
>>Go your way folks and leave me be. I have done you no harm. I just wanted
>to
>>write this game.
>
>Considering he's been paid nothing for this game so far, I think Derek Smart
>is doing a pretty nice job of completing this game. Keep up the good work -
>I for one would bay $50 for version 2.
>
Thats one
Only 60000 to go to break even.
>Liam Edgeley
>
>P.S. Thanks for all your technical help, including which patch to d/l etc..
>
>
Dan Brooks
Riboflavin wrote in message <664u55$f...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
|
|Derek Smart wrote in message
|>On Wed, 03 Dec 97 17:30:29 GMT, jas...@aol.com (Killtaker) wrote:
|>>Derek, I thought you killfiled FTHX? I say your killfile is a hoax;
his
|>>adress and name havent changed, yet you keep responding to him with
1000+
|line
|>>entries. Jesus Christ, I thought you were gonna leave and not come
back
|until
|>>version 2.0?
|>>
|>>Killtaker
|>
right to do
|>what I want when I want.
|
don't
|have the right to do what you want when you want?
|
LOL. Is this an example of YOUR logic? LOL. Try again. Read . . .
more . . . slowly. Try Evelyn Wood's Reading Dynamics. I *know*
you'll do better next time. LOL.
Here. I'll help. "If you read my post in another thread," [I stated
there that] "I have the right to do what I want when I want." Now
wonder YOUR posts make such fun reading. LOL
Dan
sixball
On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 21:55:16 GMT, dsm...@pobox.com (Derek Smart)
wrote:
>
>I've heard this too but do not wish to comment any further. I respect the man's
>work and do not base my opinion on his personal attributes.
Good idea maybe you wish we would judge you the same way (not sure it
would really help) ??
For a guy thats so Smart you sure are transparent.
Hey Dan let me save you some time:
sixball you are a idiot, fool, coward, low life with no life.
sixball
>
>|--
>
>Thank god there are people like you policing the newsgroups for asses.
>I feel so much safer.
Yes you are doing a wonderful job Dan.
Thank you and keep up the good work maybe Derek will promote you.
>
>Sorry, but "get a life" REALLY applies here. I though I was rid of
>bullies like you when I graduated grammer school.
You granduated grammer school ??
>
>Dan
>
>
sixball
On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 22:04:19 GMT, dsm...@pobox.com (Derek Smart)
wrote:
>Okay, lets see the posts you lying sack o' shit. I have an _entire_ database of
>Agent posts from you. Jon Ballinger does too. Hey Jon, do a search on this
>fool's id and shove the results down his throat.
Oops Derek you're not suppose to let us know that Jon is working for
you.
Dumbass
>
>It's one thing to face the music and it's another to cower in the shadows when
>faced with adversity.
>
>
sixball
>
>
>LOL. Is this an example of YOUR logic? LOL. Try again. Read . . .
>more . . . slowly. Try Evelyn Wood's Reading Dynamics. I *know*
>you'll do better next time. LOL.
Dan doesn't Evelyn Wood's teach speed reading ?
sixball
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:52:04 -0500, "Riboflavin" <ri...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>I hereby vote that we call Jon Ballinger "Kafka" until he apologizes for the
>accusations of racism.
Just in case anyone is wondering
Jon is a friend of Dereks. I guess now that
Derek doesn't post he has given the go ahead for some of his secret
friend to do so for him.
sixball
Jon Ballinger
It's Jon, not John..... sometimes you get it right, sometimes not. If I'm
gonna be insulted then use my correct name.
Thankyou!
--
Jon Ballinger
3D Graphics Toolkit: http://www.jabsystems.demon.co.uk
BC3K sci-fi story: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/4739/index.html
Riboflavin wrote in message <664u55$f...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
>
>Derek Smart wrote in message <664ld8$m...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>>On Wed, 03 Dec 97 17:30:29 GMT, jas...@aol.com (Killtaker) wrote:
>>>Derek, I thought you killfiled FTHX? I say your killfile is a hoax; his
>email
>>>adress and name havent changed, yet you keep responding to him with 1000+
>line
>>>entries. Jesus Christ, I thought you were gonna leave and not come back
>until
>>>version 2.0?
>>>
>>>Killtaker
>>
>>Listen to me. IF you read my post in another thread, I have the right to
do
>>what I want when I want.
>
>So, logically, if he doesn't read your post in the other thread, you don't
>have the right to do what you want when you want?
>
>>My post to FTHX and his girlfriends
>
>Damn, I'm feeling raw today...
>
>>was designed to
>>reply to them about specific issues for the benefit of new readers and put
>my
>>response in file that I can just cut and paste as needed.
>
>True, but this means your killfile is not working, right?
>
>> If you go back and
>>see, I have done 3 posts which are very, very long. Anytime one of these
>fools
>>brings up that kind of stuff, I'm gonna cut and paste the whole thing as a
>>reply.
>
>Yeah, Derek, we all believe that. You've gone back into long, rambling,
>nutty reply mode. I'll be ready to cut and paste my old flames of your old
>material each time you post them. Oh, and how will you know what we talk
>about? The killfile not working again?
>
>>>I know most of us have been praying for such a silence so we can
>>>get back to our lives and forget about your insignifigant failure of a
>game.
>>
>>Yes, of course you would say this, when I was silent what the heck were
>fthx,
>>bill pullman, Riboflavin and that other degenerate-wanna Baz doing?
>Posting!
>
>You weren't silent, oh Smarter than we can possibly imagine, you just
didn't
>respond directly to us.
>
>>Where were you then? Oh, lemme guess you're just another one of their
alter
>>egos hiding behind a newly created fake address.
>
>Look, John Ballinger, sorry, I meant Ironman, sorry I meant Derek Smart,
>this "all the detractors are the same person" bit doesn't convince anyone.
>
>>Coward.
>
>That's right! Posting anything to a newsgroup is a sure sign that you're a
>coward. Derek smart gets his power from God!
sixball
>Maybe someone forwarded it to him via email.
>I seem to recal Derek recently asking this be done anyway.
>
>Hope this clears this little mystery up for you.
>If not, try nytol - you'll be able to sleep fine, I assure you.
>
That' Smart killfile people then ask your friends to email the post to
you.
Hmmmm
Killtaker
>>Dammit Derek, it was a direct reply to a post by "FT...@AOL.COM", not one of
>>his "girlfriends" as you put it. You were reading an original post. Yr
>>Killfile, like your PHD, is a big lie.
>
>But of course...
Notice how he avoids this accusation, like all others? He asks for our
respect, or at least to leave him alone, which wouldnt be so bad if we werent
forced to swallow lie after lie (not to mention piss whenever he gets in the
mood..)
>>Liar. Fraud. Sheep Rapist. etc...
>
>
>Quit making up insults to Derek! Those sheep were willing...
That hasnt been proven. I'm not sure there are too many sheep who would
willingly have the taco-meister.
"The last sheep you will desire.."
killtaker
sixball
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:46:03 -0600, "Dan Brooks"
<cmput...@primary.net> wrote:
>
>Riboflavin wrote in message <664v8j$m...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
>|Derek Smart wrote in message
><664l48$m...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>|>Okay, lets see the posts you lying sack o' shit. I have an _entire_
>|database of
>|>Agent posts from you. Jon Ballinger does too. Hey Jon, do a search
>on this
>|>fool's id and shove the results down his throat.
>|
>|
>|Derek, you know people have records of you flaming people with simple
>|questions. Why do you keep doing this?
>|
>
>Examples, please.
>
>Otherwise, utter bullocks.
>
>Dan
Dan,
No one can make a blind man see.
>
>
Riboflavin
Dan Brooks wrote in message <34864...@news.primary.net>...
>Thank god there are people like you policing the newsgroups for asses.
>I feel so much safer.
Dan, please find a post where I said I was 'policing' the newsgroups. I'm
having entertainment at the expense of idiots, not preforming some great
civic deed.
>Sorry, but "get a life" REALLY applies here. I though I was rid of
>bullies like you when I graduated grammer school.
Bullies? Bullies? Get real, Derek and Cleve are the grammar school bully
types. And remember, I'm not the one who posted a fantasy about pissing in
someone's mouth, bending their ribs sequentially, or shoving their head so
far up their ass they'll smell the mousse. (those were Derek lines, in case
you didn't know).
Anyway Dan, you look like the latest of Derek Smart's girlfriends to start
using fake email addresses to confuse us detractors (see how easy it is to
play the 'everyone else is one person' game?)
Riboflavin
Jon Ballinger wrote in message
<881201325.27235.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>If it'll stop you acting stupid then I apologize.
Actually, on pulling your quote out of DejaNews, I see that you didn't
demand an apology, but instead called fthx 'an obscene racist piece of
shit'. And humorously, you never complained about Derek's 'go count camels'
(to someone he thought was Arabic) or 'well, Nunchaku would that be the
TOEFL' (to Nai-Chi Lee) comments, both of which are just a tad more racially
oriented than Kafka.
So instead of an apology, I want you to start calling your hero Derek 'an
obscene racist piece of shit'. How's that?
I've got the original quote from you below, if anyone wants to verify it
just search for "kafka fthx bc3k" in c.s.i.p.g.s and look for Jon
Ballinger's posts. Also, I would note that my spellchecker wanted to replace
'Ballinger's' with 'Bologna's'.
[begin Jon Ballinger quote]
[snip - irrelevant stuff]
>fthx
>
>* Dr. Smart now claims to have a secret African hypenated surname
>beginning with the letter K (as in Kafka), so search for any variation of
>"Smart" if you're continuing the PhD dissertation search.
OK, fthx. You've crossed the line you were so long skitting along.
Kafka is an insulting word to African-Americans and that now
invalidates all your "Derek Smart is racist" claims.
So fthx, everyone on Usenet now knows what an obscene racist piece of
shit you are. And you hide behind a name that looks like came from
hitting random keys.
[snip - PhD stuff]
[end Jon Ballinger quote]