Best Tactical Combat Game - Rogue Spear, Jagged Alliance, SWAT, etc?
Jesse
Simulation genre - what is the best, pound-for-pound game out there on the
market now?
I'm trying decide which to get from a slew of titles like Rogue Spear, SWAT
3, Jagged Alliance 2, Commandos, etc. This are a mish-mash of titles, as
some are real-time, while others are turn-based, and they differ in their
own ways. Still, I'd value any advice on what people feel is the best
tactical combat game on the market, all features taken into account.
Jesse
Sean Howard
: Just a question for the more experienced gamers in the Tactical Combat
Depends on what you are looking for, but for my dollar, I suggest Commandos
which is my all time favorite game. It is difficult, but always doable.
After playing the game, you will get an extreme rush from finishing each
level, but also an intense desire to watch "The Dirty Dozen". I haven't
found a game as rewarding as Commandos except for possibly Deus Ex.
The games you've listed all have fans, though JA2 and Commandos aren't
as well regarded by reviews, but make up for it with obssessive fans.
SWAT 3 and Rogue Spear are the most similar, but ultimately all of them
give you very different experiences.
As far as price is concerned, JA2 is $10, Commandos + Expansion is $15-$20,
SWAT 3 is $20-$30, and Rogue Spear is, I don't know, $40 for the platinum box?
@@
Sean Howard
KaiserZo
For FIRSTPERSON Tactical Combat Simulation, no game has beat Operation
Flashpoint. It is currently setting the benchmark for Combat Simulation, in
which tactics are a necessity.
I love SWAT 3, and didn't appreciate all the planning of Rouge Spear, but
Operation Flashpoint wins hands-down, IMHO. While I prefer firstperson
simulations, you also have...
Turn based Tactical Combat Simulation, Jagged Alliance 2 is the best, in
terms of depth, replayability, and the implementation of tactics.
So, if you want first person, Operation Flashpoint. You want turn-based,
top-down 3d view, Jagged Alliance 2.
KZ
"Jesse" <odi...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
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Olaf
olaf
rrevved <edb...@nope.com> wrote in message
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>
> Best turn-based tactical combat = Jagged Alliance 2 (period)
>
> Buy it now.
someone
And it is $10 in Best buy bargan bin
"Olaf" <ol...@postbox.net> wrote in message
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someone
if smart people on the server it gets very tactical :)
"KaiserZo" <camdunn...@home.com> wrote in message
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Gerbopel
playing it after 3 years. I haven't played the rest so I can't comment on
them.
If you don't have DSL or Cable, Rogue Spear might prove to be more
of a headache than anything else... something to keep in mind.
Gerb
Jesse wrote in message ...
Bill and Ben, the flower pot men.
wrote:
JA2 and Commandos are not realistic tactical simulations. They are
tactical strategic games with not much basis in realityu at all. JA2
is a great game though and is worth getting, especially considering it
is so cheap.
The other games are FPS tactical games that are based on reality. As
someone else said, Operation Flashpoint is well worth getting, but I
myself am waiting for the US release because the version from the UK
is unfinished. I like both Swat3 and Rogue Spear, but give the nod to
Swat3 because it has a better command system and is not about just
killing everything in sight.
Grifman
wrote:
>Jesse (odi...@NOSPAMyahoo.com) wrote:
>: Just a question for the more experienced gamers in the Tactical Combat
>: Simulation genre - what is the best, pound-for-pound game out there on the
>: market now?
>
>: I'm trying decide which to get from a slew of titles like Rogue Spear, SWAT
>: 3, Jagged Alliance 2, Commandos, etc. This are a mish-mash of titles, as
>: some are real-time, while others are turn-based, and they differ in their
>: own ways. Still, I'd value any advice on what people feel is the best
>: tactical combat game on the market, all features taken into account.
>
>Depends on what you are looking for, but for my dollar, I suggest Commandos
>which is my all time favorite game. It is difficult, but always doable.
>After playing the game, you will get an extreme rush from finishing each
>level, but also an intense desire to watch "The Dirty Dozen". I haven't
>found a game as rewarding as Commandos except for possibly Deus Ex.
Uh, Commandos may be fun, but it is more of a puzzle game than a
tactical combat game. Each guy has a unique skill, so they are not
very interchangeable. It is very easy to screw up if you don't tackle
a Commando scenario just right - hence the puzzle nature.
JA2 is the best tactical game hands down - no true competitors.
>
>The games you've listed all have fans, though JA2 and Commandos aren't
>as well regarded by reviews, but make up for it with obssessive fans.
>SWAT 3 and Rogue Spear are the most similar, but ultimately all of them
>give you very different experiences.
I'm not aware of any negative JA2 reviews and it was in competition
for several strategy game of the year awards at several number of
websites, mags, etc..
Grifman
Leejay Wu
Best Tactical Combat Ga.. by Gri...@carolina.rr.com
Unless either realism or multiplayer is crucial to the original
poster. Multiplayer, if memory serves, is available via the older
JA:DG.
By realism, JA2 is "hyper" in certain aspects. The armor, when
dealing with low-tech weapons, is very good; my record in terms of
consecutive survived head shots on an enemy solder is 10 regular
(non-AP/HP) rounds from a 9mm SMG (individual aimed shots to back
of head from a rooftop less than 30m away). Unmodded, this makes
stealthiness harder early, because it's harder to eliminate
enemies with, say, a pair of scouts.
Early-game accuracy is pretty poor (on both sides), as one might
expect. Late-game, when scopes, laser sights and bipods are
ubiquitous, accuracy becomes very high -- as does weapon power.
Interrupts become extremely deadly. This is even more extreme
in the user-created mod JA2:DL, which seriously improved both the
power and frequency of weapons and ammmo and makes for MANY
one-shot kills once you reach the mid-game or so; by the endgame,
my main character's hit rate averaged ~80% *including* the early
game with low experience and lousy weaponry. Mortar accuracy
is outrageously high (in both JA2 stock and JA2DL); a character
(or enemy merc...) can reliably put a 60mm HE round square on an
individual target first-shot, even without LOS (IOW, if somebody
else is acting as spotter). Strangely, 60mm HE makes an
excellent tank-buster (against buttoned-up tanks... not just
soft kills)...
Interrupt accuracy also seems to be oddly high. My suspicion is
that there's no penalty for interrupt shots, and you can apply
full aiming... making for paranoia when you are near LOS of a
possibly hostile-occupied window, rooftop or open door.
FWIW, according to Sir-Tech, enemies obey the same accuracy
rules you do, at least on the main level; under higher difficulty
levels, they may be more numerous, behave somewhat brighter than
normal, and better equipped. They also generally have reasonable
health; this isn't an arcade game with massively strong, extremely
well armed, but STUPID enemies.
Game balance comes largely from equipment availability, which is
affected by how much progress you've made. This also affects
money (most of it will come from mine income, and you don't start
with any mines under your control), which governs which mercs
are affordable and what gear you can buy (instead of scavenging).
There's some weirdness such as enemies generally not dropping
their weapons or (heavily perforated) armor when they die (to
maintain balance, so you're not rolling in money and gear). You
won't start with a heavily armed expert team in excellent armor
and toting heavy weapons, unless you cheat and edit inventory
and money directly.
Overall, then, you're usually outnumbered (at least globally in
a sector; since enemies are usually fairly dispersed (the game
apparently NOT cheating by placing them with particular regards
to your direction of assault)) and outgunned (if only somewhat,
later on), you do need to use reasonable tactics such as
maintaining overwatch and using cover. You also have to deal
with civillians (and in this game, if you mistakenly hurt
somebody, there's no way to say that you're sorry; they're
(understandably!) hostile for the rest of their probably short
life), so you shouldn't just wantonly lob gas grenades, LMG
fire or 60mm HE at every shadow when liberating a town.
Aside from tactical considerations... there's some RPG elements
where different mercs have different quirks, such as particularly
good or bad relations between mercs, or unusual behavior such as
sometimes getting up during a firefight (!). There's also a bit
of the traditional search-every-container-in-every-building bit,
but that's not vital; it might net you some extra cash or an
occasional odd item. There are also some side quests to
perform, usually for money or improved citizen loyalty.
General plot: Queen Deidranna basically usurps power from her
elected husband Enrico Chivaldori, and has been using her
control of the Arulcan mines to fund her army, oppress the
people, and stomp the rebels. Your job upon insertion is to
link up with the rebels and liberate the country sector-by-sector.
At any one time, you may have up to 18 mercenaries (in up to
as many different locations) under your command.
What else? Hrm, maybe replayability. There's no random maps,
and until recently no large user-created campaigns. You can
replay with a different combination of mercs, perhaps (some try
interesting self-imposed constraints such as an all-female band
of mercs, or all "budget" mercs, or so forth). You can try to
conquer towns in a different order, or try to finish the game
faster *shrug*. There's a "sci-fi mode", but the main
difference is adding a fairly nasty side quest (with a nice
reward); most of the rest of the game is unaffected.
That should be enough info to give some ideas about its
suitability *shrug*.
Leejay Wu
> >>tactical combat game on the market, all features taken into account.
> >
> >of action), real time execution of the orders. Check out the
> >demo at http://www.battlefront.com/
>
> Whoops! I should have mentioned that one along with JA2.
VERY fun. Very different from the others, 'tho; since it's
generally company- or battalion-level combat, and it models at
the squad/team level rather than individual soldiers. Compared
to, say, JA2, it has both more attention to detail (the cardinal
example of armor details such as armor slope and hardness,
design flaws such as shot traps...) and less (greater degree of
abstraction at the squad level; no hit points, for instance --
soldiers are either seriously-enough wounded to be out of the
rest of the fight, or healthy, if possibly tired and
panicking...).
Jesse
"Leejay Wu" <lw...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
> That should be enough info to give some ideas about its
> suitability *shrug*.
Good lord, yes! Thank you - this is far and away the most in-depth analysis
of a game I'd had the pleasure to come across in my many days of Usenet
browsing. Some pretty dense stuff here, I'd say you deserve a column
somewhere :)
Thanks to all who posted - it's pretty set in my mind now to pick JA:2
whenever possible, followed closely by Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord.
Between those two I should have an ample amount of tatical combat to occupy
myself. If I like what I see, I may move on to other titles like Commandos,
Flashpoint, and the slew of other titles.
Cheers,
Jesse
Zackman
yourself to try Operation Flashpoint. If you also like tank and chopper sim
games... well, you'll cream yourself.
-Z-
"someone" <som...@duke.edu> wrote in message
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mtkafka
"Action" based tactical wargame OPERATION FLASHPOINT!!!
in fact... OFP is the best game ever imo... its an open ended "action" game
that gives you a war to play with. its good... trust me.
etc
Knight37
I'll agree with the other sheep that JA2 is the best tactical turn-based.
However, if you want to BE THERE, in the action, then I highly recommend
downloaded the rather large Operation Flashpoint demo and checking it out.
Had more fun with this demo than many full games. You can buy it now in the
states if you order an imported copy, but it will be out this fall in a US
version that will supposedly have better multiplayer support.
--
Knight37
"FIRE!
Is the outcome of hypocrisy,
Darkest potency!
In the exit of Humanity,
Color our world Blackened!
Blackened!" -- Metallica "Blackened"
Chris Camfield
>On 25 Jul 2001 21:55:34 GMT, how...@mailer.fsu.edu (Sean Howard) wrote:
>
>>The games you've listed all have fans, though JA2 and Commandos aren't
>>as well regarded by reviews
>
>Huh? Have you ever seen a bad JA2 review? I haven't.
Well, PC Gamer gave it a relatively low rating. However, the reviewer
also stated some things which didn't jive with the actual game. Make
your own assumptions. :-)
I'd agree with those people who said that JA2 is not a simulation. We
didn't set out to make it one, so not surprisingly, it isn't. :-)
Chris
Richard Hutnik
> Turn Based its JA2...
>
> "Action" based tactical wargame OPERATION FLASHPOINT!!!
>
> in fact... OFP is the best game ever imo... its an open ended "action" game
> that gives you a war to play with. its good... trust me.
>
> etc
Well, based on the demo, I have to say one thing about OFP, it
certainly does give a feeling of being on the battlefield than any
other demo of a game I ever played. Shogun:Total War gives the best
feeling of being a commander over a battlefield, but OFP gives one the
best feeling of being a troop on the battlefield.
- Richard Hutnik