Just replayed Borderlands 1 (no spoilers)

[Andrew Rybenkov]

After 1.2 walkthroughs with Zero, and 1.8 (+Pirates) with Gaige
I replayed original game (with Mordekai),
and (I tell you ;) the winner is Borderlands 1!

Indeed Gearbox enhanced/improved/extended about 80% of original elements,
it was easily seen after returning to original.
They added new features including (one of best game inventions ever) Gol-iath.
The list of improvements would be long really.

BUT they botchered very important aspect of the game: LOOT.
1. While in B1 it is exciting to find yet another red coffer, in B2 you just do not care.
2. Also shops: in B1 I bought new items now and then, in B2 shops are useless absolutely.
3. Also B1 gives you bigger inventory capacity (assuming you help all those pitiful
broken claptraps). In B2 it is small and not changeable.
4. Also plot. In B1 you get a lot of quests at once. You can advance (in plot) or not.
You get the feeling of freedom.
In B2 they push the plot into your throat. There are lot of side-quests in B2 too, yet
I felt (all the way) I was on railroad.
Something like Bauldur's Gate 2 vs BG1

5. They re-engineered weapons. To worse - my opinion.
Stupidly they removed weapon efficiency. They thought badass points was more fun. Alas, no.

OK, just summing up: B1 was a fresh breath after so improved yet very heavy B2.

To those who did not played it yet: wait for GOTY of B2. Maybe they will correct
those flaws above.


--
Andrew Rybenkov

There are trash, there are junk, and there are Bioware

Furthermore I think Bioware must be destroyed.

[Miles Bader]

"Andrew Rybenkov" <aryb...@gmail.com> writes:
> 3. Also B1 gives you bigger inventory capacity (assuming you help all
> those pitiful broken claptraps). In B2 it is small and not changeable.

Wait, what about the backpack SDUs you can buy from the eridium guy ...?

-miles

--
Accordion, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin.

[Andrew Rybenkov]

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:51:59 +0400, Miles Bader <mi...@gnu.org> wrote:

> Wait, what about the backpack SDUs you can buy from the eridium guy ...?

Stand corrected really. Still it is B1's 39 items vs B2'27.
I reached "Sold out" long time ago, and totally forgot about "black market"
constantly experiencing lack of free space in my backpack.

[Xocyll]

"Andrew Rybenkov" <aryb...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:51:59 +0400, Miles Bader <mi...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>> Wait, what about the backpack SDUs you can buy from the eridium guy ...?
>
>Stand corrected really. Still it is B1's 39 items vs B2'27.
>I reached "Sold out" long time ago, and totally forgot about "black market"
>constantly experiencing lack of free space in my backpack.

No to mention Mr Black Market Dude basically rendered cash useless since
there are so _very_ very few weapons or other stuff worth buying.
Take away the high purchase cost of ammo upgrades and cash isn't much
use anymore.

Uninspired loot that comes in 50 bazillion different flavors (all of
which are basically vanilla slightly tinged with turpentine) and money
being of no use - kinda renders loot semi-pointless.
And since getting and gathering loot is one of the cornerstones of the
genre, that's not a good thing.

Now if they'd gone with the new characters it would be ok, if they'd
kept the old everything else - old weapons, old skills, old skill window
instead of that retarded animated 3 pane job and so on.
Although frankly, what I'd _REALLY_ hoped for was a real sequel,
featuring the original characters in a whole new set of areas with a new
story.

What we got was a Highlander 2.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

[KCB]

"Andrew Rybenkov" <aryb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:op.wnag28xtowpbh0@obscureserver...

> On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:51:59 +0400, Miles Bader <mi...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>> Wait, what about the backpack SDUs you can buy from the eridium guy ...?
>
> Stand corrected really. Still it is B1's 39 items vs B2'27.
> I reached "Sold out" long time ago, and totally forgot about "black
> market"
> constantly experiencing lack of free space in my backpack.

Original Borderlands with all DLC , and my backpack holds 51 items.

[Trimble Bracegirdle]

If we want more Borderlands 1st there are Fan made levels .
Not tried any yet so I don't know re. quality.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Borderlands%20install%20user%20fan%20made%20levels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") mouse (More Is More)
@@@@

[Anssi Saari]

"KCB" <bcg...@hootmail.com> writes:

> Original Borderlands with all DLC , and my backpack holds 51 items.

Well sure, the maximum with DLCs is 72. But getting an SDU upgrade on
PT2 is random and possible only from the five first claptrap rescues (in
the main game).

Interestingly, Wikia says the game actually tweaks the randomizer to
higher probability if you have less than 42, after that it gets less
likely. I think my PT2-completed Siren has 45 or so. I've played Knoxx
and Zombie island with my PT2 Mordecai, but no SDU upgrades from
those...

[Xocyll]

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn

spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

If it's of a concern you just take steps beforehand to make sure you get
the backpack SDU instead of a grenade mod.

Just make the game file read only, and then complete the rescue claptrap
mission (get the repair kit etc, save, then tab out and make the save
file read only) and if he cheap's out and gives a grenade mod instead,
reload.
Once you get the backpack piece, tab out and make the file writeable
again and continue playing. It's a bit of work for some of them as
he's some distance from the point you'll start from on a reload and all
the critters will be live again.

But if you really want the backpack space...

[Anssi Saari]

"Andrew Rybenkov" <aryb...@gmail.com> writes:

> After 1.2 walkthroughs with Zero, and 1.8 (+Pirates) with Gaige
> I replayed original game (with Mordekai),
> and (I tell you ;) the winner is Borderlands 1!

I'm just maybe halfway in first playthough of BL2 with Maya, started
with the Wildlife Exploitation Preserve on Sunday. So I don't know yet,
I'm maybe a little burned out on BL1. Played Roland for 1.5 playthroughs
before BL2 came out. Zed and Knoxx DLCs last summer with Mordecai.

> BUT they botchered very important aspect of the game: LOOT.
> 1. While in B1 it is exciting to find yet another red coffer, in B2 you just do not care.

Is it really that exciting? I don't think I've ever found much anything
good from those, all legendary guns I've ever found were just random
drops. I know people farmed containers and I tried that a few times too
but never got anything interesting from that.

> 2. Also shops: in B1 I bought new items now and then, in B2 shops are useless absolutely.

Can't agree, I've bought guns and shields and grenade mods in BL2 that
were somewhat better than what I had. Not often though. Maybe just a
little less than BL1. I've certainly had to pass on some cool weapons in
BL1 since I couldn't afford them.

> 3. Also B1 gives you bigger inventory capacity (assuming you help all those pitiful
> broken claptraps). In B2 it is small and not changeable.

Definitely annoying. I think you can max out your slots earlier though.
The last three in BL1 are pretty late so until then you have 33 max. So
not a huge difference until end of main game or DLC.

And BTW, what does that guy *do* with all the Eridium? Woo Lilith?

> 4. Also plot. In B1 you get a lot of quests at once. You can advance (in plot) or not.
> You get the feeling of freedom.
> In B2 they push the plot into your throat. There are lot of side-quests in B2 too, yet
> I felt (all the way) I was on railroad.
> Something like Bauldur's Gate 2 vs BG1

I haven't felt like I was on a railroad at least after reaching
Sanctuary. I actually did some exploring since I wanted to level a
little. Wandered into Opportunity for example and fought some level 22
loaders while I was on level 19. Handy for some quick XP.

> 5. They re-engineered weapons. To worse - my opinion.
> Stupidly they removed weapon efficiency. They thought badass points was more fun. Alas, no.

I think the proficiency was something of a dull grind and tended to
limit the weapon choice. I think they wanted to encourage the use of
more weapon types since they mostly removed the ammo regen too.

Certainly the amount of ammo you can carry has made for more varied
weapon use for me. It doesn't hurt they improved the shotguns and
launchers from BL1 either.

I don't like that you can't fast track your character in BL2. In BL1 you
could since challenges paid out in XP. And with experience you would
know where and how to do them sooner rather than later.

I don't really like the badass points though. I'm sure they'll come in
handy but that time is just so far in the future... I think I have about
3% boost in various skills on the average now.

> OK, just summing up: B1 was a fresh breath after so improved yet very heavy B2.
>
> To those who did not played it yet: wait for GOTY of B2. Maybe they will correct
> those flaws above.

I doubt it. Decent loot drops might change the game significantly so
it's not an easy thing to do. Maybe they'll add inventory slots since
they did before.

One thing I wanted for BL1 especially was loadout macros.
You know, select a COM and have the appropriate weapons loaded in the
quick slots. Mordecai especially since I used assassin/sniper/ranger
COMs a lot. Shock trooper too sometimes.

[Anssi Saari]

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> But if you really want the backpack space...

... I think I'd rather use a save editor. Looks like WillowTree can do
this, among other things. But really, ~40 slots is usually enough.

[Xocyll]

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Depends on your mode of play.

I tend to run in "Plague of Locusts" mode - I take everything, then
start discarding the cheapest items to make room for more when I find
something more valuable and am out of room.

Editing feels sort of like cheating, whereas this method requires you to
work for it, since it might take a dozen or more reloads and runs to the
downed bot before you finally get the backpack boost instead of the
grenade mod.

The Knoxx DLC one in the prison is especially bad for this, seemingly
heavily weighted toward the grenade mod.

[Xocyll]

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>"Andrew Rybenkov" <aryb...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> After 1.2 walkthroughs with Zero, and 1.8 (+Pirates) with Gaige
>> I replayed original game (with Mordekai),
>> and (I tell you ;) the winner is Borderlands 1!
>
>I'm just maybe halfway in first playthough of BL2 with Maya, started
>with the Wildlife Exploitation Preserve on Sunday. So I don't know yet,
>I'm maybe a little burned out on BL1. Played Roland for 1.5 playthroughs
>before BL2 came out. Zed and Knoxx DLCs last summer with Mordecai.

>> BUT they botchered very important aspect of the game: LOOT.
>> 1. While in B1 it is exciting to find yet another red coffer, in B2 you just do not care.
>
>Is it really that exciting? I don't think I've ever found much anything
>good from those, all legendary guns I've ever found were just random
>drops. I know people farmed containers and I tried that a few times too
>but never got anything interesting from that.

I've found some decent items in chests.

>> 2. Also shops: in B1 I bought new items now and then, in B2 shops are useless absolutely.
>
>Can't agree, I've bought guns and shields and grenade mods in BL2 that
>were somewhat better than what I had. Not often though. Maybe just a
>little less than BL1. I've certainly had to pass on some cool weapons in
>BL1 since I couldn't afford them.

I *bought* a Hellfire in Borderlands from one of the shops (the one
that's usually behind the closed door across from two other gun shops
(one of which is out of order).)

I have yet to see any kind of amazing unique (or semi-unique) gun in BL2
that was actually worth using.

And whoever designed some of these guns is a total retard.
I mean really, putting the clip on a pistol sticking out at a 45 degree
angle upwards and to the right, and then having pistols with a huge
double coil 100+ round clip stuck in there.

Yeah, just try holding a pistol steady with several pounds of clip
sticking out up and to the right, that gun is NOT going to be easy to
hold with one hand and hit anything smaller than a WHALE.

Try it for yourself, get a squirtgun pistol or the like and tape a
paperback or full can of coke sticking out like that - now try holding
it steady and aiming.

Unbalanced weapons are worthless and are HEAVILY represented in BL2 -
style over function.

And there's no explanation why all these good gun designs from the first
game are magically missing from the second. Why are all explosive ammo
guns now pathetically slow firing, when in the first game you could get
them firing at the max possible rates.

There may be 50 bazillion different possible items, but all the good
combos seem to have been locked out.

[Anssi Saari]

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
>>
>>> But if you really want the backpack space...
>>
>>... I think I'd rather use a save editor. Looks like WillowTree can do
>>this, among other things. But really, ~40 slots is usually enough.
>
> Depends on your mode of play.
>
> I tend to run in "Plague of Locusts" mode - I take everything, then
> start discarding the cheapest items to make room for more when I find
> something more valuable and am out of room.

Well sure. With my recent 1.5 playthrough with my fourth character
(Roland) I learned to stop lugging around stuff I wasn't using. Could be
I got too lazy to switch stuff anyway. So one grenade mod (Transfusion)
and two shields, one for the actual shielding, the other for healing if
needed. And found. Healing COMs are rare for the soldier so a healing
shield is fairly important early on.

Leaves almost all space for guns and COMs. I also pretty much stopped
bothering with ammo containers since there's no point with the soldier
class (support gunner COMs have ammo regen). Helps with avoiding
boredom.

> Editing feels sort of like cheating, whereas this method requires you to
> work for it, since it might take a dozen or more reloads and runs to the
> downed bot before you finally get the backpack boost instead of the
> grenade mod.

I suppose. I really don't like that kind of grinding though. If I do
something boring in a game I expect to have some benefit every time.
Like collecting ammo and weapons in GTA games for example.

[Xocyll]

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
>
>> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
>> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> But if you really want the backpack space...
>>>
>>>... I think I'd rather use a save editor. Looks like WillowTree can do
>>>this, among other things. But really, ~40 slots is usually enough.
>>
>> Depends on your mode of play.
>>
>> I tend to run in "Plague of Locusts" mode - I take everything, then
>> start discarding the cheapest items to make room for more when I find
>> something more valuable and am out of room.
>
>Well sure. With my recent 1.5 playthrough with my fourth character
>(Roland) I learned to stop lugging around stuff I wasn't using. Could be
>I got too lazy to switch stuff anyway. So one grenade mod (Transfusion)
>and two shields, one for the actual shielding, the other for healing if
>needed. And found. Healing COMs are rare for the soldier so a healing
>shield is fairly important early on.

Ahh I rarely carried extra stuff unless it was for specific bosses.
My favorite character was Lilith and one of the coms gives SMG ammo
regen, so I tended to just get a good one and stick with it until I
could find one that regened ammo even faster - all other coms I
basically ignored. Ditto shields - I just picked a good one with fast
regen (shield rebuild not health) and ignored all the specialty stuff
like acid resists or fire resists and whatnot.
I would use a health regen shield early on until I had access to the
regen health when phased skill.

>Leaves almost all space for guns and COMs. I also pretty much stopped
>bothering with ammo containers since there's no point with the soldier
>class (support gunner COMs have ammo regen). Helps with avoiding
>boredom.

I used all the inventory for loot - like I said "Plague of Locusts".
If borderlands had a Diablo style town portal mechanism I would take
_everything_.

I made so much cash I wrapped the counter a couple times (a bit over 2
billion and it wraps to negative numbers.)

>> Editing feels sort of like cheating, whereas this method requires you to
>> work for it, since it might take a dozen or more reloads and runs to the
>> downed bot before you finally get the backpack boost instead of the
>> grenade mod.
>
>I suppose. I really don't like that kind of grinding though. If I do
>something boring in a game I expect to have some benefit every time.
>Like collecting ammo and weapons in GTA games for example.

As a general rule I hate grinding, but I never really considered this
grinding, just shading the odds to get the reward I wanted.

Meta gaming as opposed to cheating by editing the savegame.

I loathed collecting the things in GTA games and only did it for the
weapon spawns (Vice City mostly) in the apartment - I did so love the
minigun and having the spawns in the 2 apartments meant I could build up
a shitload of ammo for it.

If collecting all those tiki dolls or whatever it was just gave an
"achievement" title or something else not a concrete advantage, I'd
never have bothered collecting them.

I'm really not into that whole Pokemon "gotta collect em all" crap so
unless it gives a tangible advantage to do so in a game, I won't do it.
It does not count as content to me.

[Anssi Saari]

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>

>>Is it really that exciting? I don't think I've ever found much anything
>>good from those, all legendary guns I've ever found were just random
>>drops. I know people farmed containers and I tried that a few times too
>>but never got anything interesting from that.
>
> I've found some decent items in chests.

Obviously many people have and hence the farming but how often does it
happen?

> I *bought* a Hellfire in Borderlands from one of the shops (the one
> that's usually behind the closed door across from two other gun shops
> (one of which is out of order).)

Wow. Well, come to think of it, I too have seen and maybe bought an
orange gun or two from a vending machine in BL1. In fact I had to pass
on a pestilent defiler once since I couldn't afford it and those are
orange.

> I have yet to see any kind of amazing unique (or semi-unique) gun in BL2
> that was actually worth using.
>
> And whoever designed some of these guns is a total retard.

Well yes, but it's not like the game has realistic physics anyways. It
seems they simplified things even further for the sequel. Vehicles feel
feather light now and they removed falling damage and aim jiggle when
shot too. I really would've liked slippery ice and slippery goo...

> Unbalanced weapons are worthless and are HEAVILY represented in BL2 -
> style over function.

I agree and yes, it's ridiculous. I'm not really sure about the
exploding guns either.

> And there's no explanation why all these good gun designs from the first
> game are magically missing from the second. Why are all explosive ammo
> guns now pathetically slow firing, when in the first game you could get
> them firing at the max possible rates.

The only useful explosive guns in BL2 seem to be shotguns (well,
launchers too). I got a purple one fairly early and it does something
like 77x16 damage + the extra from the explosions. Only two shots per
clip but that was usually enough to kill a charging Lab Rat or badass
psycho or any other fast charging toughie.

Still, while I seem to remember you've praised the explosive SMGs in BL1
before but I rarely got much out of them. I always felt like I wasn't
getting enough damage. Maybe I didn't have any decent ones or didn't go
for headshots enough.

I actually had an (explosive) Ogre with decent accuracy and low recoil
but it still wasn't my main gun. Used it against the Devastators in
Knoxx but not much else. Could be I just prefer more specific elemental
damage.

But maybe the designers felt the explosive guns were too good so now
they suck in BL2? In fact it seems most SMGs and assault rifles suck
now. My main guns in BL2 are snipers for longer range and shotguns and
pistols for closer. Launchers for immobile or slow heavies.

[Xocyll]

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
>
>> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
>> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>Is it really that exciting? I don't think I've ever found much anything
>>>good from those, all legendary guns I've ever found were just random
>>>drops. I know people farmed containers and I tried that a few times too
>>>but never got anything interesting from that.
>>
>> I've found some decent items in chests.
>
>Obviously many people have and hence the farming but how often does it
>happen?

It's rare-ish since it's a gimme and as you say, people farm chests in
the second town where there were a bunch before the first patch.
They're all white chests now, but there are 5 in that town.

>> I *bought* a Hellfire in Borderlands from one of the shops (the one
>> that's usually behind the closed door across from two other gun shops
>> (one of which is out of order).)
>
>Wow. Well, come to think of it, I too have seen and maybe bought an
>orange gun or two from a vending machine in BL1. In fact I had to pass
>on a pestilent defiler once since I couldn't afford it and those are
>orange.

Yeah the P.D. is one of the good uniques and one that pretty much every
player runs into eventually.

>> I have yet to see any kind of amazing unique (or semi-unique) gun in BL2
>> that was actually worth using.
>>
>> And whoever designed some of these guns is a total retard.
>
>Well yes, but it's not like the game has realistic physics anyways. It
>seems they simplified things even further for the sequel. Vehicles feel
>feather light now and they removed falling damage and aim jiggle when
>shot too. I really would've liked slippery ice and slippery goo...

Yeah but there's unrealistic physics and Cartoon physics.
It's like saying that if you manage to get the car on only 2 wheels
it'll go twice as fact - it just _can't_ happen.

>> Unbalanced weapons are worthless and are HEAVILY represented in BL2 -
>> style over function.
>
>I agree and yes, it's ridiculous. I'm not really sure about the
>exploding guns either.

Those are just plain stupid and dangerous to the user too if you use
cover - step out, fire, duck back behind cover and reload, oops grenade
effect at your feet.
It's something that belongs in a cartoon, not a comic book so it just
doesn't fit in Borderlands' graphic novel style.

>> And there's no explanation why all these good gun designs from the first
>> game are magically missing from the second. Why are all explosive ammo
>> guns now pathetically slow firing, when in the first game you could get
>> them firing at the max possible rates.
>
>The only useful explosive guns in BL2 seem to be shotguns (well,
>launchers too). I got a purple one fairly early and it does something
>like 77x16 damage + the extra from the explosions. Only two shots per
>clip but that was usually enough to kill a charging Lab Rat or badass
>psycho or any other fast charging toughie.

I never found shotguns to be much good, nor launchers except in a few
circumstances. They're both too inaccurate so long range fire is
impossible and as you note, they tend to not get many shots per clip AND
have ungodly long reload times so if you didn't kill whatever is
charging at you, you're getting mauled as you reload.

>Still, while I seem to remember you've praised the explosive SMGs in BL1
>before but I rarely got much out of them. I always felt like I wasn't
>getting enough damage. Maybe I didn't have any decent ones or didn't go
>for headshots enough.

The big value of Explosive SMGs is that they were useful on a multitude
of enemy types. Good if not great on soft skin critters (that fire was
best one), but explosive is fabulous vs hard shell critters like the
spiderants and vs metallic - armored guys and robots.
The other advantage is of course that it's explosive, so even a close
miss can cause damage if it hits something near them.
For whatever reason they were also great vs the Eridani critters in the
endgame.

Once I had a decent SMG I stopped using acid weapons entirely (and since
Lilith was my main character I mostly specialized in SMGs.)

>I actually had an (explosive) Ogre with decent accuracy and low recoil
>but it still wasn't my main gun. Used it against the Devastators in
>Knoxx but not much else. Could be I just prefer more specific elemental
>damage.
>
>But maybe the designers felt the explosive guns were too good so now
>they suck in BL2? In fact it seems most SMGs and assault rifles suck
>now. My main guns in BL2 are snipers for longer range and shotguns and
>pistols for closer. Launchers for immobile or slow heavies.

Probably. My guess is they made the promise of "more of everything" and
then found that their routines gave out too much good stuff, so they
tweaked things to make most of it crap.

Frankly I'd rather have a game with thousands of combinations, most of
which are at least good, than one with 70 bazillion combinations, 99.9%
of which are the equivalent of a sword made of pasta.

The weapons in BL2 are ridiculous.
Guns that explode when you throw them and then magically reform in your
hand fully reloaded.
Sniper rifles that fire on full auto when you're zoomed in, but fire
single shot when you aren't zoomed.
Honestly, who would ever make such a thing - who would use it?
Yeah maybe the autofire _might_ help you kill that first target by using
a burst instead of one bullet, but then you have no shots for the rest
of the targets. More likely though, the burst fire would degrade
accuracy enough that you'd miss that first target anyway.
Totally blows the snipers credo - one shot, one kill.

Unbalanced weapons that look like they were designed by the marauders in
Road Warrior, not professional weapon designers from companies that make
their money from selling reliable accurate weapons.
An SMG would 2 clips sticking out at 45 degree angles from the bottom
making a _small_ smg 14 inches or more wide?

I stand by what I said before - the guy who designed most of these
weapons is retarded, he doesn't understand what they're for, how they're
used or what would be looked for in a weapon. He just went for "I think
this looks cool" and left it at that.
Pity no one else was monitoring the work to give him a reality check.

BL1 was comic/graphic novel inspired, BL2 is pure Hollywood, "realistic
physics, we can't even spell it, much less do it"

Even Bugs Bunny and crew would laugh at the weapons in BL2, they're so
outlandish and unrealistic.

[Justisaur]

On Nov 9, 9:51 am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

> >> I have yet to see any kind of amazing unique (or semi-unique) gun in BL2
> >> that was actually worth using.

I've found several. Two homing pistols, the minecraft shotgun, the
smg from the clan war, a purple e-tech plasma smg, the pistol from the
robot who wanted to be a human.

>
> >The only useful explosive guns in BL2 seem to be shotguns (well,
> >launchers too). I got a purple one fairly early and it does something
> >like 77x16 damage + the extra from the explosions. Only two shots per
> >clip but that was usually enough to kill a charging Lab Rat or badass
> >psycho or any other fast charging toughie.

The explosive pistols I've found are crap, but I've had decent (not
great) explody assault rifles and shotguns. Launchers are awesome,
but ammo-regen doesn't work on them. Explody seems to work best on
the guys with doors.

> I never found shotguns to be much good, nor launchers except in a few
> circumstances.   They're both too inaccurate so long range fire is
> impossible and as you note, they tend to not get many shots per clip AND
> have ungodly long reload times so if you didn't kill whatever is
> charging at you, you're getting mauled as you reload.

Shotguns are awesome for close range and fliers. With my gunzerker I
can one or two shot some guys with the triple barreled ones. The
minecraft shotgun is arguably the best gun I've ever found,
unfortunately I out leveld it.

> The big value of Explosive SMGs is that they were useful on a multitude
> of enemy types.   Good if not great on soft skin critters (that fire was
> best one), but explosive is fabulous vs hard shell critters like the
> spiderants and vs metallic - armored guys and robots.
> The other advantage is of course that it's explosive, so even a close
> miss can cause damage if it hits something near them.
> For whatever reason they were also great vs the Eridani critters in the
> endgame.

Explody still works fairly well against spider ants, but it doesn't
seem to do terribly well vs. robots, it does o.k. but corrosive is
king there.

> >But maybe the designers felt the explosive guns were too good so now
> >they suck in BL2? In fact it seems most SMGs and assault rifles suck
> >now. My main guns in BL2 are snipers for longer range and shotguns and
> >pistols for closer. Launchers for immobile or slow heavies.

Sniper seems useful all the time. I prefer the no element type as
they seem to work best against almost everything, except for the
bandit fliers.

Assault rifles in general seem like the big losers to me.

>
> The weapons in BL2 are ridiculous.
> Guns that explode when you throw them and then magically reform in your
> hand fully reloaded.

Those are some of the best guns. Watch out for Tediore shotguns.
They do as much damage when you throw them, or more, so even with long
reload times it's like getting another shot. If you got ammo to
spare, you can fire them once and throw doing massive damage.

> Sniper rifles that fire on full auto when you're zoomed in, but fire
> single shot when you aren't zoomed.
> Honestly, who would ever make such a thing - who would use it?
> Yeah maybe the autofire _might_ help you kill that first target by using
> a burst instead of one bullet, but then you have no shots for the rest
> of the targets.  More likely though, the burst fire would degrade
> accuracy enough that you'd miss that first target anyway.
> Totally blows the snipers credo - one shot, one kill.

Yeah, those suck.

> Unbalanced weapons that look like they were designed by the marauders in
> Road Warrior, not professional weapon designers from companies that make
> their money from selling reliable accurate weapons.

Aren't those Bandit weapons? Those were designed by the bandits in
the game, they make Road Warrior marauders look sane. I mean come on,
Face McShooty?

Admittedly BL2 just doesn't seem to have whatever it was that made BL1
so addictive and fun. Although I am still playing it, with my first
character at lv 50 - trying to finish playthrough 2.

- Justisaur

[Xocyll]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of

the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Nov 9, 9:51 am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
>> spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>> >> I have yet to see any kind of amazing unique (or semi-unique) gun in BL2
>> >> that was actually worth using.
>
>I've found several. Two homing pistols, the minecraft shotgun, the
>smg from the clan war, a purple e-tech plasma smg, the pistol from the
>robot who wanted to be a human.

Oh I've found several, I just haven't found any that were actually worth
using barring one ultra-large magazine corrosive machine gun.

>> >The only useful explosive guns in BL2 seem to be shotguns (well,
>> >launchers too). I got a purple one fairly early and it does something
>> >like 77x16 damage + the extra from the explosions. Only two shots per
>> >clip but that was usually enough to kill a charging Lab Rat or badass
>> >psycho or any other fast charging toughie.
>
>The explosive pistols I've found are crap, but I've had decent (not
>great) explody assault rifles and shotguns. Launchers are awesome,
>but ammo-regen doesn't work on them. Explody seems to work best on
>the guys with doors.

I tend to keep an explosive assault rifle as one of my standard weapons.

Although on occasion I have swapped it for an explosive pistol.
While good ones are far rarer than good assault rifles (there have no
great ones of either) they do occur.
I have one explosive pistol that does over 1000 damage per shot.

>> I never found shotguns to be much good, nor launchers except in a few
>> circumstances.   They're both too inaccurate so long range fire is
>> impossible and as you note, they tend to not get many shots per clip AND
>> have ungodly long reload times so if you didn't kill whatever is
>> charging at you, you're getting mauled as you reload.
>
>Shotguns are awesome for close range and fliers. With my gunzerker I
>can one or two shot some guys with the triple barreled ones. The
>minecraft shotgun is arguably the best gun I've ever found,
>unfortunately I out leveld it.

I've tried them several times, but they've never been decent enough to
keep using for more than a few minutes.

>> The big value of Explosive SMGs is that they were useful on a multitude
>> of enemy types.   Good if not great on soft skin critters (that fire was
>> best one), but explosive is fabulous vs hard shell critters like the
>> spiderants and vs metallic - armored guys and robots.
>> The other advantage is of course that it's explosive, so even a close
>> miss can cause damage if it hits something near them.
>> For whatever reason they were also great vs the Eridani critters in the
>> endgame.
>
>Explody still works fairly well against spider ants, but it doesn't
>seem to do terribly well vs. robots, it does o.k. but corrosive is
>king there.

Unfortunately I've found that really good corrosive weapons are very
rare in BL2. I've found a few decent ones, but since they were really
only good for use on robots, they weren't worth "wasting' a weapon slot
on when an explosive weapon would work almost as well on the robot and
works very well vs a bunch of other things.

>> >But maybe the designers felt the explosive guns were too good so now
>> >they suck in BL2? In fact it seems most SMGs and assault rifles suck
>> >now. My main guns in BL2 are snipers for longer range and shotguns and
>> >pistols for closer. Launchers for immobile or slow heavies.
>
>Sniper seems useful all the time. I prefer the no element type as
>they seem to work best against almost everything, except for the
>bandit fliers.

The fire ones can be handy if the regular hit won't quite kill with one
shot. The extra fire damage can finish off the severely wounded
whatever without the need for a second shot.

>Assault rifles in general seem like the big losers to me.

Pretty much - they all seem to either fire way too slowly or have
magazine sizes that are so tiny as to be useless.

>> The weapons in BL2 are ridiculous.
>> Guns that explode when you throw them and then magically reform in your
>> hand fully reloaded.
>
>Those are some of the best guns. Watch out for Tediore shotguns.
>They do as much damage when you throw them, or more, so even with long
>reload times it's like getting another shot. If you got ammo to
>spare, you can fire them once and throw doing massive damage.

I object to them not because of their uselessness, but because this is a
science fiction game not a fantasy game and those are pure magic so they
fit as well as smurfs in Call of Duty.

>> Sniper rifles that fire on full auto when you're zoomed in, but fire
>> single shot when you aren't zoomed.
>> Honestly, who would ever make such a thing - who would use it?
>> Yeah maybe the autofire _might_ help you kill that first target by using
>> a burst instead of one bullet, but then you have no shots for the rest
>> of the targets.  More likely though, the burst fire would degrade
>> accuracy enough that you'd miss that first target anyway.
>> Totally blows the snipers credo - one shot, one kill.
>
>Yeah, those suck.
>
>> Unbalanced weapons that look like they were designed by the marauders in
>> Road Warrior, not professional weapon designers from companies that make
>> their money from selling reliable accurate weapons.
>
>Aren't those Bandit weapons? Those were designed by the bandits in
>the game, they make Road Warrior marauders look sane. I mean come on,
>Face McShooty?

The SMGs with the clips sticking out of both sides are bandit, but the
pistols with the 45 degree clip out the side are from several of the big
manufacturers as well.

Even bandits wouldn't make a pistol like that since it's inherently
inaccurate and unbalanced and a bandit with a gun that can't hit shit is
a sitting duck.

>Admittedly BL2 just doesn't seem to have whatever it was that made BL1
>so addictive and fun. Although I am still playing it, with my first
>character at lv 50 - trying to finish playthrough 2.

It really feels to me like a game that was built by accountants that
analyzed the "fun factors" of the first game without actually
understanding what made it fun in the first place.
Then they "supersized" each of the elements in an attempt to make the
game even more FUN.

It's like a joke created by a computer, analyzing the elements that go
into a good joke and then assembling a bunch of elements together to
make a joke (Didn't Data do this on STNG?), but since it doesn't
actually understand humor or _feel_ anything the joke falls flat every
time.

I have this vision of the game designers sitting around in 3 piece
pinstriped suits like a bunch of humorless Victorian bankers (or those
bald guys in the latest season of Fringe) deciding on the best "fun"
elements to include in the game while having no understanding at all of
what fun is.

Borderlands was an instant classic, Bl2 is, instantly forgettable and
may have killed the franchise.

Ok the crazy bomb chick was kinda fun and memorable, but the rest of the
game is just meh.

Meh weapons, Meh plot, Meh villain, meh humor, meh skills and a horrible
user interface.

Game of the year it will never be unless every possible judge gets a
payoff. A LARGE payoff.

[Anssi Saari]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Nov 9, 9:51 am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:

> I've found several. Two homing pistols, the minecraft shotgun, the
> smg from the clan war, a purple e-tech plasma smg, the pistol from the
> robot who wanted to be a human.

Hmm, that last would be the Fibber? I don't know, I used it some
recently but it's so hard to know what it does since stats are random...
I went through the Lost Treasure quest last weekend and got the
Dahlminator. E-Tech pistol, homing, corrosive. Nice but slow. I wonder
if it's useful against those flying Buzzards.

> Sniper seems useful all the time. I prefer the no element type as
> they seem to work best against almost everything, except for the
> bandit fliers.

Yeah, I was actually wearing a Jacob's skin recently since I have a
pretty good Jacob's sniper now, the plain type. Really good for shooting
up Crystalisks. But I lug fire/slag/corrosive snipers around too.

> Admittedly BL2 just doesn't seem to have whatever it was that made BL1
> so addictive and fun. Although I am still playing it, with my first
> character at lv 50 - trying to finish playthrough 2.

Well, the B grade and annoying writing is one reason, the silence in the
original was better. And not enough cool loot. And how hard is it to
make a decent in game map? Now it's strictly 2D even with the huge
height differences. So is that Ammo Dump just around the corner or
around the corner and 600 feet up?

[Justisaur]

On Nov 17, 3:25 pm, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
> Justisaur <justis...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of

> the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
> >On Nov 9, 9:51 am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
> >> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> >> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
> >> >> I have yet to see any kind of amazing unique (or semi-unique) gun in BL2
> >> >> that was actually worth using.
>
> >I've found several.  Two homing pistols, the minecraft shotgun, the
> >smg from the clan war, a purple e-tech plasma smg, the pistol from the
> >robot who wanted to be a human.
>
> Oh I've found several, I just haven't found any that were actually worth
> using barring one ultra-large magazine corrosive machine gun.

All those I've mentioned I used quite a bit.

I haven't found any orange weapons yet, I must have found something
like 6 orange shields though, there's a couple you get from quests,
and I just got one last night from the Warrior. It shoots out
corrosive spikes if you get hit by bullets. Not bad, but not sure
it's really any better than my usual green elemental resist one.

> >> I never found shotguns to be much good, nor launchers except in a few
> >> circumstances. They're both too inaccurate so long range fire is
> >> impossible and as you note, they tend to not get many shots per clip AND
> >> have ungodly long reload times so if you didn't kill whatever is
> >> charging at you, you're getting mauled as you reload.
>
> >Shotguns are awesome for close range and fliers.  With my gunzerker I
> >can one or two shot some guys with the triple barreled ones.  The
> >minecraft shotgun is arguably the best gun I've ever found,
> >unfortunately I out leveld it.
>
> I've tried them several times, but they've never been decent enough to
> keep using for more than a few minutes.

Probably just better on the Gunzerker, since the playstyle works well
with up close and personal. That minecraft shotgun though! It was
good even at some range. I keep going back there trying to find
another one at my level but no luck.

>
> >> The big value of Explosive SMGs is that they were useful on a multitude
> >> of enemy types. Good if not great on soft skin critters (that fire was
> >> best one), but explosive is fabulous vs hard shell critters like the
> >> spiderants and vs metallic - armored guys and robots.
> >> The other advantage is of course that it's explosive, so even a close
> >> miss can cause damage if it hits something near them.
> >> For whatever reason they were also great vs the Eridani critters in the
> >> endgame.
>
> >Explody still works fairly well against spider ants, but it doesn't
> >seem to do terribly well vs. robots, it does o.k. but corrosive is
> >king there.
>
> Unfortunately I've found that really good corrosive weapons are very
> rare in BL2.   I've found a few decent ones, but since they were really
> only good for use on robots, they weren't worth "wasting' a weapon slot
> on when an explosive weapon would work almost as well on the robot and
> works very well vs a bunch of other things.

I haven't had any trouble there, but good fire weapons seem to be the
most numerous. Still don't see much point in electric, but I'll
switch to my elec/slag if I see someone with shields first sometimes.

Corrosive seems to work well enough against the Hyperion agents too,
enough that I don't switch out.

>
> >> >But maybe the designers felt the explosive guns were too good so now
> >> >they suck in BL2? In fact it seems most SMGs and assault rifles suck
> >> >now. My main guns in BL2 are snipers for longer range and shotguns and
> >> >pistols for closer. Launchers for immobile or slow heavies.
>
> >Sniper seems useful all the time.  I prefer the no element type as
> >they seem to work best against almost everything, except for the
> >bandit fliers.
>
> The fire ones can be handy if the regular hit won't quite kill with one
> shot.  The extra fire damage can finish off the severely wounded
> whatever without the need for a second shot.

Too many people with shields that fire does lousy against I think.
I'm loving my cherie' sniper, it's slag which is kind of useless in a
sniper, but it returns health, so I just kill everything with it now.

> >Assault rifles in general seem like the big losers to me.
>
> Pretty much - they all seem to either fire way too slowly or have
> magazine sizes that are so tiny as to be useless.

I found the best weapon in the game. I can't imagine anything is
better. It took a lot of learning how to use it, it's an explosive
assault rifle. I'll give some spoiler space at the end.

> >> The weapons in BL2 are ridiculous.
> >> Guns that explode when you throw them and then magically reform in your
> >> hand fully reloaded.
>
> >Those are some of the best guns.  Watch out for Tediore shotguns.
> >They do as much damage when you throw them, or more, so even with long
> >reload times it's like getting another shot.  If you got ammo to
> >spare, you can fire them once and throw doing massive damage.
>
> I object to them not because of their uselessness, but because this is a
> science fiction game not a fantasy game and those are pure magic so they
> fit as well as smurfs in Call of Duty.
>

I think it fits fairly well with the way the respawning, instant
travel, vehicle and robot construction are done. It's just
reconstructed in your hand.

Spoiler Space
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Best weapon in the game - the Evil Smasher Assault Rifle. It comes
from a quest from Markus. It appears kinda crap from the stats. It
does about 5k damage and has about a 2.5 fire rate and only holds 6
ammo. Occasionally when reloaded when not in combat (never seems to
happen if someone's firing at you) it has an effect that bumps the
damage up to 70k, increases the speed and ammo cap to 27, which goes
away when reloaded, or switched away from.

I figured out that with my Gunzerker I never have to reload it though,
I just go into gunzerking mode and it automatically refills the gun.

That's pretty awesome, and I found that better than any previous gun I
had. But there's more. I won't get into how to do it, but there's a
bug or glitch or perhaps as intended, but this can occasionally
transfer to other weapons increasing their damage fire rate and
capacity. I was doing 640k with my cherie rifle, that's not even on a
crit.

- Justisaur

[Justisaur]

On Nov 19, 6:49 am, Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:

> Justisaur <justis...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Nov 9, 9:51 am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
> > I've found several.  Two homing pistols, the minecraft shotgun, the
> > smg from the clan war, a purple e-tech plasma smg, the pistol from the
> > robot who wanted to be a human.
>
> Hmm, that last would be the Fibber? I don't know, I used it some
> recently but it's so hard to know what it does since stats are random...
> I went through the Lost Treasure quest last weekend and got the
> Dahlminator. E-Tech pistol, homing, corrosive. Nice but slow. I wonder
> if it's useful against those flying Buzzards.

Yeah the Fibber, I probably got lucky with it, The one I got was like
the old smashers, firing something like 7 bullets. I was one shotting
stuff with it for awhile.

The second one I just got was crap though, just a kind of meh bouncing
slag bullet.

>
> > Sniper seems useful all the time.  I prefer the no element type as
> > they seem to work best against almost everything, except for the
> > bandit fliers.
>
> Yeah, I was actually wearing a Jacob's skin recently since I have a
> pretty good Jacob's sniper now, the plain type. Really good for shooting
> up Crystalisks. But I lug fire/slag/corrosive snipers around too.

I find slag too difficult to use unless I'm gunzerking, but I've got a
couple slag weapons with other good effect that I use anyway. The
fire sucks vs. shielded characters so I just stick with plain overkill
normal bullets on the sniper.

I rather like the buffalo, no sight, but awesome damage, the first one
I got fired at a reasonable rate, but the 2nd one was .5 which was
just too slow.

> > Admittedly BL2 just doesn't seem to have whatever it was that made BL1
> > so addictive and fun.  Although I am still playing it, with my first
> > character at lv 50 - trying to finish playthrough 2.
>
> Well, the B grade and annoying writing is one reason, the silence in the
> original was better. And not enough cool loot. And how hard is it to
> make a decent in game map? Now it's strictly 2D even with the huge
> height differences. So is that Ammo Dump just around the corner or
> around the corner and 600 feet up?

I think the music was far better in BL1 too. I was also missing the
vehicle jumps and other challenges.

I think I'm pretty much done with it now that I finished playthrough 2
with my gunzerker, the other characters don't really appeal to me.
That was pretty much how it was with 1 for me until I picked up all
the DLCs, then the whole thing seemed better.

Maybe 3 will be good again like with the rule for movies.

- Justisaur

[Xocyll]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of

the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Nov 17, 3:25 pm, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>> Justisaur <justis...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>> the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>> >On Nov 9, 9:51 am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>> >> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
>> >> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>> >> >> I have yet to see any kind of amazing unique (or semi-unique) gun in BL2
>> >> >> that was actually worth using.
>>
>> >I've found several.  Two homing pistols, the minecraft shotgun, the
>> >smg from the clan war, a purple e-tech plasma smg, the pistol from the
>> >robot who wanted to be a human.
>>
>> Oh I've found several, I just haven't found any that were actually worth
>> using barring one ultra-large magazine corrosive machine gun.
>
>All those I've mentioned I used quite a bit.
>
>I haven't found any orange weapons yet, I must have found something
>like 6 orange shields though, there's a couple you get from quests,
>and I just got one last night from the Warrior. It shoots out
>corrosive spikes if you get hit by bullets. Not bad, but not sure
>it's really any better than my usual green elemental resist one.

I've found a couple but they were basically crap.

It's pretty much the same as Diablo3 vs the previous.
Used to be when you saw a unique it was a WOW! moment even before you'd
looked at it, but these new uniques are mostly meh.

>> >> I never found shotguns to be much good, nor launchers except in a few
>> >> circumstances. They're both too inaccurate so long range fire is
>> >> impossible and as you note, they tend to not get many shots per clip AND
>> >> have ungodly long reload times so if you didn't kill whatever is
>> >> charging at you, you're getting mauled as you reload.
>>
>> >Shotguns are awesome for close range and fliers.  With my gunzerker I
>> >can one or two shot some guys with the triple barreled ones.  The
>> >minecraft shotgun is arguably the best gun I've ever found,
>> >unfortunately I out leveld it.
>>
>> I've tried them several times, but they've never been decent enough to
>> keep using for more than a few minutes.
>
>Probably just better on the Gunzerker, since the playstyle works well
>with up close and personal. That minecraft shotgun though! It was
>good even at some range. I keep going back there trying to find
>another one at my level but no luck.

Haven't tried the gunzerker - it just doesn't appeal to me at all.

>> >> The big value of Explosive SMGs is that they were useful on a multitude
>> >> of enemy types. Good if not great on soft skin critters (that fire was
>> >> best one), but explosive is fabulous vs hard shell critters like the
>> >> spiderants and vs metallic - armored guys and robots.
>> >> The other advantage is of course that it's explosive, so even a close
>> >> miss can cause damage if it hits something near them.
>> >> For whatever reason they were also great vs the Eridani critters in the
>> >> endgame.
>>
>> >Explody still works fairly well against spider ants, but it doesn't
>> >seem to do terribly well vs. robots, it does o.k. but corrosive is
>> >king there.
>>
>> Unfortunately I've found that really good corrosive weapons are very
>> rare in BL2.   I've found a few decent ones, but since they were really
>> only good for use on robots, they weren't worth "wasting' a weapon slot
>> on when an explosive weapon would work almost as well on the robot and
>> works very well vs a bunch of other things.
>
>I haven't had any trouble there, but good fire weapons seem to be the
>most numerous. Still don't see much point in electric, but I'll
>switch to my elec/slag if I see someone with shields first sometimes.
>
>Corrosive seems to work well enough against the Hyperion agents too,
>enough that I don't switch out.

It works well against anything metal - armored guys, robots, flying
machines, turrets etc. BUT explosive works almost as well on those guys
as well as on things corrosive is basically useless on.

The only real advantage of corrosive is the DoT effect it also has so
you can duck out of cover, hit something then duck back and let it take
more damage while you're safe - good for taking out turrets that
otherwise would shoot the hell out of you.

But in a stand up fight, that extra corrosive DoT is just getting
wasted.

>> >> >But maybe the designers felt the explosive guns were too good so now
>> >> >they suck in BL2? In fact it seems most SMGs and assault rifles suck
>> >> >now. My main guns in BL2 are snipers for longer range and shotguns and
>> >> >pistols for closer. Launchers for immobile or slow heavies.
>>
>> >Sniper seems useful all the time.  I prefer the no element type as
>> >they seem to work best against almost everything, except for the
>> >bandit fliers.
>>
>> The fire ones can be handy if the regular hit won't quite kill with one
>> shot.  The extra fire damage can finish off the severely wounded
>> whatever without the need for a second shot.
>
>Too many people with shields that fire does lousy against I think.
>I'm loving my cherie' sniper, it's slag which is kind of useless in a
>sniper, but it returns health, so I just kill everything with it now.

I mostly use it on animal types, although a fire sniper can also be good
vs those Buzzard flying machines especially if it has a high DoT effect.

>> >Assault rifles in general seem like the big losers to me.
>>
>> Pretty much - they all seem to either fire way too slowly or have
>> magazine sizes that are so tiny as to be useless.
>
>I found the best weapon in the game. I can't imagine anything is
>better. It took a lot of learning how to use it, it's an explosive
>assault rifle. I'll give some spoiler space at the end.

Yeah I tend to use an explosive assault rifle myself, but as I noted
they fire rate on them is abysmally slow - down at semi-auto speeds
usually.

>> >> The weapons in BL2 are ridiculous.
>> >> Guns that explode when you throw them and then magically reform in your
>> >> hand fully reloaded.
>>
>> >Those are some of the best guns.  Watch out for Tediore shotguns.
>> >They do as much damage when you throw them, or more, so even with long
>> >reload times it's like getting another shot.  If you got ammo to
>> >spare, you can fire them once and throw doing massive damage.
>>
>> I object to them not because of their uselessness, but because this is a
>> science fiction game not a fantasy game and those are pure magic so they
>> fit as well as smurfs in Call of Duty.
>>
>
>I think it fits fairly well with the way the respawning, instant
>travel, vehicle and robot construction are done. It's just
>reconstructed in your hand.

Except for one thing. All the other things you mention have _something_
spawning them the weapon is destroying and then respawning _itself_ -
that's magic not tech.
Basically it's the equivalent of a Star Trek replicator.
It requires a pattern and power and the replicator itself to replicate
something.

Those guns are something for nothing; they explode, then magically
replicate themself back in the users hand - that would require micro
miniaturized, explosion hardened sensors, power source and replicator,
that not only would accurately recreate the pistol, it's recreating
everything else - INCLUDING the power source.
A battery powered item that replicates itself including it's fully
charged battery, and does so _after_ it explodes. Yeah right!

Unless you're going to believe that the weapon companies put satellites
in orbit around every planet they sell these weapons on that monitor
each and every weapon and instantly, zero-lag, respawn them in their
customers hands when the customer reloads even when the customer is deep
underground and the satellite couldn't possibly track them.
Seems like the cost of hundreds, thousands or millions of satellites,
the monitoring of all those weapons, and power use would require those
weapons to costs tens or hundreds of millions each.
They'd be rich men's toys, not something in widespread use.

It's just a stupid, "Hollywood Science" gimmick, not thought out and
just plain wrong for the game. If they wanted something believable
that fit with the tech in the game they should have had exploding
_magazines_ - you remove and toss at the enemy setting off a tiny
anti-matter explosion or something.

The gun blowing up and reforming itself - that's magic not science

Just another example of the "wouldn't it be cool if" school of design
which always requires turning off rational thought first.

I expected far more than that from the guys who made Borderlands.

It's like expecting a Spielberg picture but being shown something made
by the SyFy channel. (Known for low budgets, bad CGI and zero fact
checking if you've never seen one.)

It sounds almost interesting, but also useless for a non Gunzerker.
A 27 fire rate isn't much help when there's only 6 bullets.
What's the reload time on that thing?

I tend not to use the highest damage weapon I find in whichever
category, since the highest damage ones generally also have tiny clips,
multiple bullets used per shot (sometimes both,) slow fire rates and
often other undesirable traits (like the burst fire on sniper rifles.)

I stand by what I said before - they carefully tuned their random
generator to turn out crap weapons just so they could say there's
bazillions of possible weapons. Honestly who cares how many there are
when over 95% of them are garbage - give me quality not quantity, and
quality weapons are noticeably lacking in BL2.

What happened to all those good to great weapons from the first game -
are we to believe that they were all rounded up and destroyed and
replaced by the crap that exists in the second game?

Most of what drops is such crap it's hardly worth even trying to sell it
you gets so little - not what you want in a game that's all about the
loot.

Loot that's not worth picking up isn't really loot, it's litter.

[Anssi Saari]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Nov 19, 6:49 am, Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:

>> Yeah, I was actually wearing a Jacob's skin recently since I have a
>> pretty good Jacob's sniper now, the plain type. Really good for shooting
>> up Crystalisks. But I lug fire/slag/corrosive snipers around too.
>
> I find slag too difficult to use unless I'm gunzerking, but I've got a
> couple slag weapons with other good effect that I use anyway. The
> fire sucks vs. shielded characters so I just stick with plain overkill
> normal bullets on the sniper.

I usually use slag sniper on Goliaths, then followed by fire sniper.
Just need to get those guys quick... Or do a headshot instead and let
them kill everything :)

> I think the music was far better in BL1 too. I was also missing the
> vehicle jumps and other challenges.

I like some of the music in BL2 at least. I spent quite a long time in
Caustic Caverns last weekend looking for the lost treasure and liked the
music that plays there.

Good thing too since I was dying a lot. A badass pyro thresher spawns
there sometimes and it's just unbelievably powerful. The other beasts in
there, crystalisks and threshers and varkids and spiderants, weren't
that much of a problem. I had actually avoided the badass thresher but
then of course I realized too late what the clues to the treasure
actually meant so I had to go back and there was just no escaping that
thing a second time...

But that was pretty much a perfect quest. No quest arrow to lead you by
the nose (although the clues were hardly difficult), challenging enemies
and decent reward with the Dahlminator seeking+corrosive pistol.

I also like the exploration you can do. I think I'll go back and try to
find the audio logs from the different characters that give some back
story about the characters' past. I've found some for Maya and Zero and
Axton, but not all.

> I think I'm pretty much done with it now that I finished playthrough 2
> with my gunzerker, the other characters don't really appeal to me.
> That was pretty much how it was with 1 for me until I picked up all
> the DLCs, then the whole thing seemed better.

I haven't quite finished my first playthrough with my siren but we'll
see. I didn't play BL1 much either after first playthrough until I got
all the DLC in a Steam sale. Then I played through a few more times...
PT2 with Siren, PT1 with berserker, PT1 and most of PT2 with hunter and
soldier... DLC with PT2 hunter. Still haven't done the robot revolution
DLC at all.

There may be no way of avoiding doing all this in BL2... Oh well, at
least I'll get my money's worth.