Soulbringer: Screw the critics, I like it a LOT
Bob Perez
craving a new RPG. I started playing it and it enjoyed it despite a few
early flaws. Saw the potential in it and kept going. It got better and
better and better and now I am deliriously hooked on it, having caught that
"just one more quest" syndrome that keeps me up all night when I KNOW I
should be in bed. I posted a message here about a week back asking why there
wasn't much discussion of this here. I received several comments back, two
of which amounted to: "Because the game sucks".
One of those messages was from a known troll so I didn't give that one any
consideration. The other, however, came from a forum regular and cited the
following:
a) "bland uninspired graphics, and it's always night"
b) "awkward camera control"
He also described one of my favorite innovations, the Combo (basically a
macro creation system) as "a pain in the butt" that would only appeal to
fans of programmable robot games.
The comment I found the least compelling (and most surprising) was "see
recent reviews for reasons why", as though one would need to turn to a
reviewer's opinion rather than form their own.
Ok, these things are of course subjective and your mileage will vary, etc. I
don't fault others for differing opinions, they're of course entitled to
them. But when flat out dismissive comments like that are made, AND there
appear to be a few bad reviews out there, and you couple that with a lousy
promotion on the part of the publisher, that usually spells the kiss of
death for a game even if it has unusual merit in the eyes of some. That's
why I'm writing this message.
Witness what happened with ShadowWatch. The game was panned by many critics,
dismissed by several on the strategy news group, got ZERO promotion from RSE
and seemed well on its way to becoming not only a commercial flop (probably
inevitable at this point) but also never really seriously considered by most
of the very fans at which it was aimed. Because most of them would never
even try it. What happened next was that 3 or 4 regular posters started
talking up the game and pointing out that it was (gasp) fun! Enough talk
happened that a few players became intrigued and started talking it up even
more. Tom Chick started an infamous thread titled "You guys were right, this
really IS a great game" (I paraphrase). Eventually, the producer got in on
the thread and started pouring out details on the game's mechanics and
design.
The result was that a game that was destined to fail without much notice
suddenly got a lot of attention and wound up attracting the attention of the
audience it was aimed at. Not the critics, not the casual gamers, but the
hardcore turn-based strategy fans who favor good gameplay over Heavy Metal
FAKK eye candy. Of course, Heavy Metal FAKK will sell a lot of copies and
ShadowWatch will not, so this message is not intended as a marketing lesson
to game publishers or a comment on game industry economics. This message is
really just about good games.
Ok, what are the things that I like most about Soulbringer?
a) The reward system - The greatest games understand that there is an
unspoken pact between the gamer and the gaming system: "I pledge to make an
effort, and you pledge to reward me promptly and regularly". Diablo is the
simplest manifestation of this. Kill a monster, take a chance at recovering
the "King's Vampiric Sword of Leech & Quickness" off his corpse.
Kill/reward, kill/reward. PS:T is a much more refined example that rewards
one with the satisfaction of a compelling unwinding story as well as an
endless stream of "experience" points that lead to further character
enhancements, etc. Soulbringer is delightful in this regard, delivering
plenty of visible experience and loot after each accomplisment (quests and
combat), and the pacing is perfect. Every time I've looked at my character
sheet to see my progress I've been surprised at how close I was to leveling
up and getting 6 more stats to distribute. Wheee.
b) The realtime combat system - This simply kicks major ASS. Imagine this.
Every move of your character is motion captured and true to life. When you
lunge, you *lunge*, an overhead smash with a hammer is just that, a stab
faithfully depicts a stab, and so on. I couldn't believe the first time I
swung at a Mercenary and he ducked his head to the side causing my sword to
slice through air: a miss! And then when he swung back at me and I actually
sucked in my gut and watched his sword tickle my buttons as it whiffed past
them, WOW! I tried an uppercut with my sword and I found his weakness and
sliced him to ribbons! This is combat, folks! Tactics that mean something
and offer incredibly lifelike visible feedback, this is what I had in mind.
No clickfest, just an honest contest that took my breath away and turned
every battle into a contest. I would watch and wonder "will my thrust find
purchase", "will I lose the war of attrition as we both seek each other's
weaknesses", and so on. This is by far the greatest part of the game for me,
I look forward to every single kill, whether it's a meaningless minion
patrolling an insignificant area or the final boss.
c) The graphics - This is a weird one. Many who pan the game pick on it
because of the graphics. There are several reasons, I think. One is the
always night thing. Um, so what? Planescape Torment may have daylight but
have you ever played in a more morose, morbid atmosphere? Probably not, but
so what? Again, these are things which will probably not help sales (look at
the box art for PS:T as an example) but they do help create the atmosphere
for the target audience, small as they may be. Another aspect of the
graphics that has been commented on is the slight pixelization. Think
Daggerfall or M&M, that software 3d rendering look. Except that
Soulbringer's is much, much nicer and dazzling if you ask me. You can swivel
around the camera with a right click (think Homeworld or Ground Control,
although only on one plane, not freely 3 dimensional alas). Whatever
pixelization is apparent (and yes it is apparent) becomes invisible once
you've become sucked up into the game. I would compare this phenomenon to
Impressionist art. Through Impressionism one gains a view of the substance,
the essence, unfettered by the requirements of photo-realism. History
reminds us of the first reactions to Van Gogh's paintings. Although no one
said "fuzzy graphics" you can bet a lot of people reduced his work to just
that. Ok, so the Impressionist analogy is overstating the case, but the
underlying point remains: the essence of the communication is achieved
admirably (as I said, I am dazzled) even if it there is some perceptible
imperfection.
d) The story - It's a deep story line with many developments. Although there
are plenty of the classic RPG simple idioms, the story is not reduced to a
"Kill Foozle and recover the Orb of Originality". There is honor in the
battle of an enslaved and outnumbered people, there is tragedy, there is
depth. I am still making my way through the story (the game is a lot longer
than I realized initially).
e) The game mechanics - I think there are many reasons that people will have
trouble getting into Soulbringer. One of them is the unfortunate reality
that the game designers created a system that is initially somewhat tedious
and slow in developing. In the first 25% of the game you will wander around
on foot and constantly be wishing you had a Town Portal scroll as you lug
your loot back to the market to sell. But at a certain point in the game you
acquire a new ability and the game just opens up incredibly. The very tedium
of the initial phase makes this particular acquisition that much sweeter.
It's a wonderful development and fits neatly with the overall reward system,
although it will only be achieved by those few of us who are willing to put
in the investment. That is really the turning point of the game because
along with this development come other benefits and suddenly the game
becomes vastly different and infinitely more enjoyable. Add to this a
generally excellent system of game feedback (you see the actual damage and
heal numbers on screen as you fight, this helps you adjust
tactics/weapons/spells). Finally, the Combo system. This is a system that
lets you create macros that enable one-button presses to initiate a sequence
of events. I can create a Combo called "Kill Vampire" that begins by casting
Shielding on myself, then does a Stab with my Blooddrinker sword, followed
by a Slash with the sword, followed by an Upper Cut with the sword, and then
loops back up to the Slash and continues until the Vampire is dead. Great
idea! Despite the criticism I've seen of this feature (one reviewer said
"You will not use it once you're well into the game because it just gets in
the way") I have found it to be incredibly useful. I use Combos
*exclusively* for every battle I have had in the game. So the critics are
wrong again, you will use this feature just as much as you want to. In my
case, that's been the entire game so far.
f) The magic system - This one's different from any system I've ever seen.
Sure, the usual spells based on five elements (Fire, Water, Air, Earth and
Spirit) but the mechanism for learning and executing spells was unusual. You
must acquire spellbooks and then a magical Rune associated with that
spellbook in order to access the spells in that book. These are typically
found independently. Even if you manage to acquire the Book and the Rune,
however, it will only work once you've discovered the one location in the
game where these two items will come together to give you access to the
spells. And even then you only get access to the first few spells in the
book, picking up the more advanced ones as you progress. And then there's
the notion of a Seculorum, a five-spoked wheel that represents these 5
elements in balance. The wheel never shrinks or grows, but the "spokes"
change position as you cast among the elements so that if you rely too much
on Fire, all the others will diminish. You can wind up with a huge wedge for
Fire and Earth, and tiny slivers for Air, Water and Spirit if you're not
careful. The consequence of small spokes? Your elemental resistance is
directly tied to your Seculorum state. So although a big Fire wedge will
give you great resistance to Fire, you're SOL if you come up against Water
damage. So one goal may be to maintain balance in your Seculorum. Or, you
may say the Hell with it and rely exclusively on Fire or Air and take the
consequences. Your choices determine your game behaviors.
g) The challenges - The game is not easy. You will use the Save/Load
feature. But it rewards thinking. There was one encounter with a
particularly tough character that I thought I would *never* kill . My blows
would not damage him, he did incredible damage to me, and in general I
thought I was hopelessly ahead of myself and not ready for this battle. I
considered going out to level up some more and then discovered something
interesting (spoiler follows, skip paragraph if you don't want to learn the
solution). My Firebolt spells actually healed him. I saw the little green
numbers floating up that indicated this and thought "Ok, cold damage". I
realized I didn't have any Cold damage spells available. Earlier on that
level I had noticed a strange architectural issue. Green mists spraying out
of four posts that surrounded a pentragram. When I touched one of the posts
the color of the mist changed from green to blue, then to red, then back to
green. If I touched all 4 of the posts and changed them all to red mist,
walking over the pentagram caused massive Fire damage to me. Changing them
all to Blue caused massive cold damage. Bingo, change them all to Blue, go
meet my friend, run away and have him chase me and lure him into the
pentagram to fight me. By deft maneuvering I managed to get him to cross the
pentagram and watched with intense satisfaction as he died from the massive
cold damage.
In the end, few players are going to make the kind of investment this game
requires to reach satisfaction. That's a shame, because it's a wonderful
game full of depth and innovation. I cannot tear myself away from it and had
to force myself to make the time to share this information with the rest of
the newsgroup in the hopes that some of you who have read the negative
accounts will see enough possibility in the game to give it a try. For those
of you who do, I hope you wind up getting as much out of it as I have so
far. You might not, that's the nature of these subjective reviews. I may be
part of a small handful of people who wind up enjoying this title, but if
you're up for trying something different and you enjoy the pursuit of good
games, there's a lot here to like.
BP
Polonius
>I picked up this game on a lark without knowing really anything about it,
>craving a new RPG. I started playing it and it enjoyed it despite a few
>early flaws. Saw the potential in it and kept going. It got better and
>better and better and now I am deliriously hooked on it, having caught that
>"just one more quest" syndrome that keeps me up all night when I KNOW I
>should be in bed. I posted a message here about a week back asking why there
>wasn't much discussion of this here. I received several comments back, two
>of which amounted to: "Because the game sucks".
>
Good on you Bob! Not only do I agree with your enthusiasm for
Soulbringer, but I'm delighted to see someone post even longer rambles
than I do! ;-)
For anyone who has read a negative opinion of the game, the last
review that I read of Soulbringer commented on the lack of publicity
for it and actually called it "the sleeper hit of the milennium" - so
obviously there are some other enthusiasts out there too.
I've been an avid game player for 15 years - since the days of Zork 1,
text only - and in that time had never bought a game guide (although I
would have been tempted for Baldur's Gate, if it hadn't been for
Desslock's great guide online). But I recently bought the guide for
Soulbringer, despite being fairly well through it. To cheat? No - if I
had got stuck there's a very friendly and helpful site at
soulhelp.com. So, the reason? There's just so much in the game that I
wanted to read about, explore, learnt the detail and background to
etc. It's not super easy, maybe not a mass-market megahit, but it's
still a very worthwhile game with a charm and character all its own.
Polonius.
Try at all times to be polite, helpful, friendly
and respectful to your fellow posters. But when
that gets boring, being a complete arsehole can be
a lot of fun too. Just don't tell anybody I said so.
Brian H.
Bob Perez <b...@deletethis.bobperez.com> wrote in message
news:8on6fe$5cf$1...@brokaw.wa.com...
> I picked up this game on a lark without knowing really anything about it,
> craving a new RPG. I started playing it and it enjoyed it despite a few
> early flaws. Saw the potential in it and kept going. It got better and
> better and better and now I am deliriously hooked on it, having caught
that
> "just one more quest" syndrome that keeps me up all night when I KNOW I
> should be in bed. I posted a message here about a week back asking why
there
> wasn't much discussion of this here. I received several comments back, two
> of which amounted to: "Because the game sucks".
>
I think I can understand why they think this game sucks. Because it does
require a certain amount of time & patience in the beginning. I must
clarify, I enjoy this game.
> One of those messages was from a known troll so I didn't give that one any
> consideration. The other, however, came from a forum regular and cited the
> following:
>
> a) "bland uninspired graphics, and it's always night"
I often find people can't distinguish graphics & artwork. To me,
Soulbringer's graphics is definitely not top notch. But its artwork is very
good. Many of the tombs inside the game are very well crafted and very
logically IMO. Compare with, e.g., BG's Thief Maze or Firewine dungeon, the
graphics are good but the artwork are ugly.
> b) "awkward camera control"
>
I didn't play many games that have camera control so I don't know if
Soulbringer's awkward or not. It works for me.
> He also described one of my favorite innovations, the Combo (basically a
> macro creation system) as "a pain in the butt" that would only appeal to
> fans of programmable robot games.
>
Heh. Action gamers probably don't like them.
> The comment I found the least compelling (and most surprising) was "see
> recent reviews for reasons why", as though one would need to turn to a
> reviewer's opinion rather than form their own.
>
Game reviewers typically have limited time to play through a game in order
to review it. This requires patience. If the game can't cheer them up in
the beginning, it's almost doomed in reviews.
I still can't have any fun with Shadow Watch. =P
Unfortunately the gamers have to play until it reaches about the mid game to
find them out.
> e) The game mechanics - I think there are many reasons that people will
have
> trouble getting into Soulbringer. One of them is the unfortunate reality
> that the game designers created a system that is initially somewhat
tedious
> and slow in developing. In the first 25% of the game you will wander
around
> on foot and constantly be wishing you had a Town Portal scroll as you lug
> your loot back to the market to sell. But at a certain point in the game
you
> acquire a new ability and the game just opens up incredibly. The very
tedium
> of the initial phase makes this particular acquisition that much sweeter.
> It's a wonderful development and fits neatly with the overall reward
system,
> although it will only be achieved by those few of us who are willing to
put
> in the investment. That is really the turning point of the game because
> along with this development come other benefits and suddenly the game
> becomes vastly different and infinitely more enjoyable.
Yes, this amazed me when I reached that point!! =D Suddenly, you are a
power that everyone will reckon with!! And I like them to call me "My Lord"
in every dialog.
> Add to this a
> generally excellent system of game feedback (you see the actual damage and
> heal numbers on screen as you fight, this helps you adjust
> tactics/weapons/spells). Finally, the Combo system. This is a system that
> lets you create macros that enable one-button presses to initiate a
sequence
> of events. I can create a Combo called "Kill Vampire" that begins by
casting
> Shielding on myself, then does a Stab with my Blooddrinker sword, followed
> by a Slash with the sword, followed by an Upper Cut with the sword, and
then
> loops back up to the Slash and continues until the Vampire is dead. Great
> idea! Despite the criticism I've seen of this feature (one reviewer said
> "You will not use it once you're well into the game because it just gets
in
> the way") I have found it to be incredibly useful. I use Combos
> *exclusively* for every battle I have had in the game. So the critics are
> wrong again, you will use this feature just as much as you want to. In my
> case, that's been the entire game so far.
>
And later when you acquire more and more magic, it's fun to create combos
that combine those magic with melee combat.
> f) The magic system - This one's different from any system I've ever seen.
> Sure, the usual spells based on five elements (Fire, Water, Air, Earth and
> Spirit) but the mechanism for learning and executing spells was unusual.
You
> must acquire spellbooks and then a magical Rune associated with that
> spellbook in order to access the spells in that book. These are typically
> found independently. Even if you manage to acquire the Book and the Rune,
> however, it will only work once you've discovered the one location in the
> game where these two items will come together to give you access to the
> spells. And even then you only get access to the first few spells in the
> book, picking up the more advanced ones as you progress. And then there's
> the notion of a Seculorum, a five-spoked wheel that represents these 5
> elements in balance. The wheel never shrinks or grows, but the "spokes"
> change position as you cast among the elements so that if you rely too
much
> on Fire, all the others will diminish. You can wind up with a huge wedge
for
> Fire and Earth, and tiny slivers for Air, Water and Spirit if you're not
> careful. The consequence of small spokes? Your elemental resistance is
> directly tied to your Seculorum state. So although a big Fire wedge will
> give you great resistance to Fire, you're SOL if you come up against Water
> damage. So one goal may be to maintain balance in your Seculorum. Or, you
> may say the Hell with it and rely exclusively on Fire or Air and take the
> consequences. Your choices determine your game behaviors.
>
And I played my Soulbringer with the seculorum constantly in balance. This
creates another challenges to me because I will constantly switch tactics so
that each elemental magic does not overwhelm another.
If I haven't read the spoilers from this NG I wouldn't know how to defeat
him. =P
>
> In the end, few players are going to make the kind of investment this game
> requires to reach satisfaction. That's a shame, because it's a wonderful
> game full of depth and innovation. I cannot tear myself away from it and
had
> to force myself to make the time to share this information with the rest
of
> the newsgroup in the hopes that some of you who have read the negative
> accounts will see enough possibility in the game to give it a try. For
those
> of you who do, I hope you wind up getting as much out of it as I have so
> far. You might not, that's the nature of these subjective reviews. I may
be
> part of a small handful of people who wind up enjoying this title, but if
> you're up for trying something different and you enjoy the pursuit of good
> games, there's a lot here to like.
>
> BP
>
>
Well, I think you'd better wait for the endgame. Some of those who like the
game felt that the ending, sorry, *sucks*. Everyone has his/her own
opinion. =P
Brooks
> craving a new RPG. I started playing it and it enjoyed it despite a few
Me too; I didn't want to get Diablo II.. the first one was addictive,
but not very RPGish with character interaction.
> "just one more quest" syndrome that keeps me up all night when I KNOW I
> should be in bed. I posted a message here about a week back asking why there
Heh, I've got that bug from soulbringer, also. The only thing I'm not
too keen on, is that they could have some branching plot lines & more
NPC interaction.
> a) "bland uninspired graphics, and it's always night"
I don't think the graphics are that hot, but it makes up for it with
fun-playing time.
> b) "awkward camera control"
Once you get used to it, it's all good. Sometimes it's a PITA to revolve
the camera around to get your guy to go into a doorway or something.
Once you play it a bit though, it becomes almost second nature.
> and slow in developing. In the first 25% of the game you will wander around
> on foot and constantly be wishing you had a Town Portal scroll as you lug
Jah, that was my irritation at first, also. Was somewhat a PITA to get
started! Minor spoiler/hint for those who haven't played it: Talk to the
head guard guy, and get the quest. You take care of it inside the city.
If you're thinking you need to adventure around outside to do it, well,
you don't, and you'll get killed. :)
In summary,
"Me Too!"
I too, hope that more people give this game a shot, and put up with the
slightly difficuly character development for the first couple of levels.
It's a good time, and for about the same $ spent, has entertained me a
hell of a lot more than, say, Vampire, or IWD.
B
Slasher Arcana
> I too, hope that more people give this game a shot, and put up with
the
> slightly difficuly character development for the first couple of
levels.
> It's a good time, and for about the same $ spent, has entertained me
a
> hell of a lot more than, say, Vampire, or IWD.
>
This game piqued my interest when I saw the box art. The graphics
looked none too shabby if you ask me. Anyway even if the graphics
weren't up to scratch compared to recent offerings, at least it would
be safe to assume that I'll be assured smooth framerates. I loved
Daggerfall, but it was too buggy and generic-random for me.
How's the stuff inside the box? Any hefty manual? I like to read
manuals, especially if they come with nice stories and spellbooks and
such.
Questions tho.
Is there a save-anywhere feature?
When u initiate a combo, do you need to be lined up with the opponent?
Is there sideways dodging (like say Virtua Fighter) and if so will you
go swishing past your foe?
Are the spell effects nifty?
Are the sound effects during fighting good? For example will I hear
steel on steel, mace on wood, etc or are hits generic pings-pings?
Is there a large range of stuff to buy? Weapons, armour, scrolls,
potions, magic items, etc?? Or are most items found?
Are there logic puzzles?
How's the loading per se? Does it load as you enter a new area or town
or dungeon?
Hope my questions would be answered. But hey who knows I might do a Bob
Perez! ;-)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
erimess
<b...@deletethis.bobperez.com> wrote:
>
>In the end, few players are going to make the kind of investment this game
>requires to reach satisfaction. That's a shame, because it's a wonderful
>game full of depth and innovation. I cannot tear myself away from it and had
>to force myself to make the time to share this information with the rest of
>the newsgroup in the hopes that some of you who have read the negative
>accounts will see enough possibility in the game to give it a try. For those
>of you who do, I hope you wind up getting as much out of it as I have so
>far. You might not, that's the nature of these subjective reviews. I may be
>part of a small handful of people who wind up enjoying this title, but if
>you're up for trying something different and you enjoy the pursuit of good
>games, there's a lot here to like.
>
>BP
>
It should make you feel better to know that I was looking at this game
the other day and was considering it, and your little review here has
actually pointed me a little closer to the "play it" direction. Maybe
partly cause I'm not that concerned with graphics. Maybe partly
because I'm willing to take the necessary time it sounds like the game
requires (which may make the difference between "love it" and "it
sucks"). And maybe partly because you just sounded so absolutely
ernest, by golly, that I just couldn't help myself.
Alas for my brother though. He hates real-time fighting.
erimess
JPA
eri...@altavista.com wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:08:35 -0700, "Bob Perez"
> <b...@deletethis.bobperez.com> wrote:
>
>
> It should make you feel better to know that I was looking at this game
> the other day and was considering it, and your little review here has
> actually pointed me a little closer to the "play it" direction. Maybe
> partly cause I'm not that concerned with graphics. Maybe partly
> because I'm willing to take the necessary time it sounds like the game
> requires (which may make the difference between "love it" and "it
> sucks"). And maybe partly because you just sounded so absolutely
> ernest, by golly, that I just couldn't help myself.
>
> Alas for my brother though. He hates real-time fighting.
>
> erimess
>
Just be prepared. You can't run away from the fight as in other games
as part of your strategy (which "is" IMO a valid strategy). Once you
start the sequence of the macro, you just "watch it happen". You
either "win" or "die". <and you "will die" a lot.... a "whole lot">.
I "personally" don't have the patience for retry after retry after
retry. One of the reviewers (can't remember who), had that particluar
screen on his review to illustrate and emphasize this.
In addition, when the main character initiates dialouge with NPC's it
moves slowy, very slowly when you start it. And the dialog can be quite
long. I guess I am the type that doesn't mind the great deal of
dialogue in say Planscape: Torment, but does in this type of game. At
least I could terminate the dialog and go back and try different
branches and it didn't take a long time. I dunno, the interface, and
pace, how the combat/spells worked in this game turned me off. I really
couldn't get into it. But then again, that's me, you may like it. BTW
the graphics didn't bother me at all.
I too tried very hard to like this game. I even "preordered it". Heh,
when it came out like "nobody in line waiting for it". I don't believe
I ever saw it on the EB World top 5 preorder charts, or subsequently in
the Top PC games being played currently either. But that doesn't mean
it's not a good game.
I really thought Soulbringer would be a differnet kind of game when I
was reading the initial reviews, and some of the comments from the
European players on this NG came out here first. And I have liked a few
Ingfogrammes Titles. But, for me, the game just didn't "hook me".
Too tedius, I guess, and not satisfying enough for me. I returned it.
Anyway, my .02 on this thread just for some balance I guess. Good luck
and I hope you enjoy and find Soulbringer satisfying.
J...
Bob Perez
Slasher Arcana <arca...@catcha.com> wrote in message
news:8opqhq$8a3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > How's the stuff inside the box? Any hefty manual? I like to read
> manuals, especially if they come with nice stories and spellbooks and
> such.
>
Sadly, not a very useful manual. A 36 page thin paper thing that does list
some of the spells. Disappointing.
> Is there a save-anywhere feature?
Yes, save anywhere. I only use 4 save slots, so I don't know but it looks
like you could have a lot more if you want. You can title the save anything
you like and it saves your title along with game time/date/location
information. Nice.
> When u initiate a combo, do you need to be lined up with the opponent?
Not sure what you mean by "lined up", but there is no physical requirement
other than proximity. If you're close enough to have an opponent targetable
it doesn't matter where you stand relative to each other, you can initiate
combos. This is true even if the opponent is on the other side of a wall,
for example. You can therefore use targeting as a means of scoping out the
presence of enemies. There were times when I used this to advantage. I would
hit the "target closest enemy" key (uparrow, sadly not configurable) and
discover a group of Vampires on the other side of a wall. I could then
initiate a Fear Cloak spell which would send them running away before I even
opened the door, thus clearing the way for a safe entrance.
> Is there sideways dodging (like say Virtua Fighter) and if so will you
> go swishing past your foe?
Yes. It's not done manually, it just happens if your speed skill is high
enough to give you a good dodging ability. What will happen is the opponent
will swing and you'll step to the side, or duck your head, or whatever, and
avoid the blow. It's quite cool, but don't misunderstand, this particular
action is not explicitly controlled, it's part of the combat animation. You
don't hold down a key and click away, you just initiate combat in one of two
ways: a combo that includes a looping feature so that your various attacks
(e.g., Slash, Slash Low, Uppercut, Smash, Powerful Strike, Lunge, Stab) can
sequence until the opponent is dead, or you can just manuallyselect the
weapon of choice and then manually click on the list of attacks available to
that weapon. Either way works well. I like Combos because they give you so
many choices. You can choose attacks with different weapons and the weapon
switches will occur automatically. You can interpose spells in between
attacks as part of the combos, etc. Infinitely variable.
> Are the spell effects nifty?
Reasonably so, with very nice colored lighting effects. Not earth shaking,
but very pleasant. The configuration options allow you to choose for T&L
capable cards so a GeForce may look even nicer.
> Are the sound effects during fighting good? For example will I hear
> steel on steel, mace on wood, etc or are hits generic pings-pings?
Another good point I forgot to raise, the sounds are exquisite! You will
hear steel on steel, you will hear the knock of wood against a sword, the
smash of a mace, and the klang of crossed swords. Stunning effects. You will
also see it. When my mace hits his sword you will hear the effect and see
little onscreen effects of flying debris. Amazing detail.
> Is there a large range of stuff to buy? Weapons, armour, scrolls,
> potions, magic items, etc?? Or are most items found?
Reasonable amount to buy, not nearly enough though. The vast majority of
cool items in the game will be found. Nice variety of magical swords. Make
sure to Identify everything. I made the mistake of being disappointed when I
found yet another "Longsword" and almost sold it. When I looked at the
description, however, I noticed that it had a different graphic and had not
been Identified, meaning that it was not an ordinary Longsword. Great
magical sword as it turned out but it looked on the ground like a normal
Longsword. Surprisingly there are no shields that I've seen yet (even though
weapons are classed as 1h or 2h, probably just affects their speed). Variety
of potion types and there are a wide variety of mushrooms and Herbs that are
found in random locations with a variety of magical and restorative powers.
> Are there logic puzzles?
Of a sort. The one I mention above in the spoiler is an example of a typical
puzzle. But honestly there really aren't that many. The game does require
you to think and experiment, however. One thing I like is that different
spells do have widely varying effects on monsters so you don't wind up just
using 2 or 3 all the time for every purpose. Just last night I discovered
that a particular monster that I was having a *lot* of trouble with simply
melts away to the Purify spell, and that has helped tremendously. I simply
created a combo for this monster that starts by casting Purity on it then
initiates sword combat.
> How's the loading per se? Does it load as you enter a new area or town
> or dungeon?
Ok, a large negative here. Virtually every new location (the main city has 3
locations or zones) requires a load screen. It's not as bad as some we've
seen, but it's sufficiently annoying that I rate it one of the game's
primary weaknesses.
>
> Hope my questions would be answered. But hey who knows I might do a Bob
> Perez! ;-)
;-> As I said, it won't be everyone's cup of tea, but there definitely is a
lot to like here.
BP
Bob Perez
JPA <jan...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8or41c$jlc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
> Just be prepared. You can't run away from the fight as in other games
> as part of your strategy (which "is" IMO a valid strategy).
I honestly don't know what you mean here, it's simply not true. One of the
main tactics that I employ in really tough battles is to initiate combat and
if it's close or I'm taking more damage, I'll break off and run away to find
a spot either to heal or buff up with spells before re-engaging. If what you
mean is that the enemy will continue to pursue, then yes that's true but so
what? It's realistic and in any case if you're really in need of safe refuge
you simply zone into another room and they will not follow you. Heal up,
zone back in and continue. What exactly is your complaint here?
> In addition, when the main character initiates dialouge with NPC's it
> moves slowy, very slowly when you start it. And the dialog can be quite
> long. I
I'm not a big fan of conversation trees (PST) or non-interactive
conversation bubbles (console RPGs). Fortunately, Soulbringer doen'st have a
lot of either, just enough so that I don't find it annoying. And you can
always hit the period key to completely end any dialogue sequence and put
you immediately back into interactivity. Again, I'm not sure of your
complaint here. Were you aware that you could terminate the dialog
sequences? Your point about being able to do it in PST suggests maybe you
didn't know this was possible in Soulbringer as well.
> I really thought Soulbringer would be a differnet kind of game when I
> was reading the initial reviews, and some of the comments from the
> European players on this NG came out here first. And I have liked a few
> Ingfogrammes Titles. But, for me, the game just didn't "hook me".
Yea, like I said it won't appeal to everyone. It does require some patience
up front. I almost quit a couple of times before that magical moment
arrived. Did you get past that initial point I'm talking about (if so, you
will clearly know what I mean)?
> Anyway, my .02 on this thread just for some balance I guess. Good luck
> and I hope you enjoy and find Soulbringer satisfying.
That's the value of these threads, from the diversity of opinions presented
one can begin to piece together enough balanced information to make a
decision to investigate and come to their own conclusions.
BP
JPA
"Bob Perez" <b...@deletethis.bobperez.com> wrote:
>
> JPA <jan...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8or41c$jlc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> >
> > Just be prepared. You can't run away from the fight as in other
games
> > as part of your strategy (which "is" IMO a valid strategy).
>
> I honestly don't know what you mean here, it's simply not true. One
of the
> main tactics that I employ in really tough battles is to initiate
combat and
> if it's close or I'm taking more damage, I'll break off and run away
to find
> a spot either to heal or buff up with spells before re-engaging. If
what you
> mean is that the enemy will continue to pursue, then yes that's true
but so
> what? It's realistic and in any case if you're really in need of safe
refuge
> you simply zone into another room and they will not follow you. Heal
up,
> zone back in and continue. What exactly is your complaint here?
I just like a little more "control" over what I am doing when I am in
combat. The tactic you mention here is correct, but I just didn't care
for the combat system in this game. It's just "me". Perhaps other's
will like it. I just wanted to point out to the previous poster that
this game's combat system is not what one usually sees in these types
of games.
>
> > In addition, when the main character initiates dialouge with NPC's
it
> > moves slowy, very slowly when you start it. And the dialog can be
quite
> > long. I
>
> I'm not a big fan of conversation trees (PST) or non-interactive
> conversation bubbles (console RPGs). Fortunately, Soulbringer doen'st
have a
> lot of either, just enough so that I don't find it annoying. And you
can
> always hit the period key to completely end any dialogue sequence and
put
> you immediately back into interactivity. Again, I'm not sure of your
> complaint here. Were you aware that you could terminate the dialog
> sequences? Your point about being able to do it in PST suggests maybe
you
> didn't know this was possible in Soulbringer as well.
>
No I didn't know this. But as you say above, you are not a big fan of
conversation trees .... and as I said, I didn't like the way
Infogrammes did this in Soulbringer. Different opinions are good :)
> > I really thought Soulbringer would be a differnet kind of game when
I
> > was reading the initial reviews, and some of the comments from the
> > European players on this NG came out here first. And I have liked a
few
> > Ingfogrammes Titles. But, for me, the game just didn't "hook me".
>
> Yea, like I said it won't appeal to everyone. It does require some
patience
> up front. I almost quit a couple of times before that magical moment
> arrived. Did you get past that initial point I'm talking about (if
so, you
> will clearly know what I mean)?
>
No, I didn't have the patience to get to that point. I have seen
mention of it made by one particular poster on this NG, but like I
said, I tried, and it didn't "hook me". Example, I am not by any means
a FPS fan. But I did like and played the heck out of Half Life, and HL:
Opposing Force ... I got "hooked", I tried Deus Ex, ... I really
got "hooked"... and that's about it. Can't stand the Quakes and UT's
etc. With RPG's I got hooked on BG and IWD, and I hated D1 but Liked D2
enough to finish and start Hell. I know I'm going to like BG2 and I
liked the Fallouts and PST. They "hooked me". Soulbringer didn't.
> > Anyway, my .02 on this thread just for some balance I guess. Good
luck
> > and I hope you enjoy and find Soulbringer satisfying.
>
> That's the value of these threads, from the diversity of opinions
presented
> one can begin to piece together enough balanced information to make a
> decision to investigate and come to their own conclusions.
>
> BP
>
>
Hear hear!
:)
Polonius
>Just be prepared. You can't run away from the fight as in other games
>as part of your strategy (which "is" IMO a valid strategy). Once you
>start the sequence of the macro, you just "watch it happen". You
>either "win" or "die". <and you "will die" a lot.... a "whole lot">.
>I "personally" don't have the patience for retry after retry after
>retry. One of the reviewers (can't remember who), had that particluar
>screen on his review to illustrate and emphasize this.
>
Perhaps, like many reviewers, he/she had not grasped the mechanics of
the game they were reviewing and/or hadn't played very far. That
comment simply is not true. Nothing forces you to build and use
complex combos, you can do the fight one hit at a time if you like. It
is actually a highly flexible system that you can make as simple or as
complicated as you like. There is no necessity whatever to 'loop' your
combos so that the fight will proceed unaided - it's an OPTION!
If you like the click click click style of fight you can do it - in
fact that's what dummy here did until I got the hang of the system
properly (doh....)
As for having the patience for doing retries - that pretty much
applies to any game you can mention with combat in it. Naturally you
always looks for a game that balances your own degree of skills level
with the difficulty of winning battles - but that's the whole point
isn't it? If it's too easy it gets boring, and if it's too hard it
also gets dull. If you're dying too much in any game it usually means
that you have either set the difficulty too high, or your strategy
sucks. Certainly I have found that I can slice through some of the
peasantry in Soulbringer with satisfying ease as long as I don't make
stupid mistakes. The "try and die" factor comes into play mainly when
you meet new foes or 'bosses' - just like most games!
Of course, I completely agree with your right to dislike Soulbringer,
it's not for everyone. Personally, I find that my own like or
dislike of a game is usually quite irrational and doesn't really boil
down to the details of the game's mechanics. Some games just grab me
and some don't. Sometimes it can be as simple as whatever I played
last. E.g. - I first started Icewind Dale right after Diablo 2, which
had a real edge of the seat - blink and die style of play. By
comparison IWD seemed extremely dull and flat. However, I persisted
(in between bouts of Deus Ex and Vampire) and am now thoroughly
enjoying it :-)
.
Polonius
erimess
>
>I just like a little more "control" over what I am doing when I am in
>combat. The tactic you mention here is correct, but I just didn't care
>for the combat system in this game. It's just "me". Perhaps other's
>will like it. I just wanted to point out to the previous poster that
>this game's combat system is not what one usually sees in these types
>of games.
>
Since that would be me, I thought I'd respond. I've only played three
games with real-time fighting, so I don't have much to compare.
Therefore, I wouldn't know what "not what one usually sees in these
types of games" would mean. In the ones I've played, I could do as
Bob pointed out and just escape from the enemy's "zone," but of course
that enemy would still be there when I returned.
I also don't mind being killed a few times or having to retry, as long
as it doesn't get too ridiculous. I don't want to retry ten times!
>
>> > Anyway, my .02 on this thread just for some balance I guess. Good
>luck
>> > and I hope you enjoy and find Soulbringer satisfying.
>>
>> That's the value of these threads, from the diversity of opinions
>presented
>> one can begin to piece together enough balanced information to make a
>> decision to investigate and come to their own conclusions.
>>
>> BP
>>
>>
>Hear hear!
>
I'll second that.
erimess