Risen $30 at GoGamer
JLC
for $30. This is what I've been waiting for!
JLC
Nostromo
Domini:
>Just an FYI Risen is on sale at GoGamer during their newest 48 hour sale
>for $30. This is what I've been waiting for!
>
>JLC
Lewis will be so happy! And how many days after release, around 42 by my
calcs?
--
Nostromo
Wile E. Coyote
> Lewis will be so happy! And how many days after release, around 42 by my
> calcs?
>
If I wait another 42 days it will be $9.99 at GamersGate. Steam, D2D or
Impulse. I will buy it then. I'm more interested in Divine Divinity II
when it gets released in N.A.
Werner Punz
also is an excellent game, and sheesh it has puzzles which is rather
rare in RPGs (would love to see more puzzles in RPGs so far there is
mostly only Zelda and I would not call that an RPG per se). I am waiting
for DD to become half price before getting it.
Wile E. Coyote
> From what I could gather from the German Reviews Risen is better but DD
> also is an excellent game, and sheesh it has puzzles which is rather
> rare in RPGs (would love to see more puzzles in RPGs so far there is
> mostly only Zelda and I would not call that an RPG per se). I am waiting
> for DD to become half price before getting it.
Betrayal at Krondor had puzzles too.
John Lewis
Noted at the time.
Back up at $39.99 this week, iirc. Waiting until it hits <$25 :-)
:-). Got to have some purchase discipline here.... And plenty of other
games to amuse me while "waiting".
John Lewis
>--
>Nostromo
JLC
Yeah I told myself about a million times that I was going to wait until
BF before buying another game. But I have a "wish list" going at Amazon
and so when I see a game on my list for cheap I grab it. I just picked
up Dragon Age for $29 yesterday, Batman AA a few weeks ago for $28 and
NFS Shift for $29 last month. At GoGamer I picked up STALKER CS for $6 a
couple of weeks ago, and on Steam I just bought Overlord 2 for $8 this
weekend and last night I picked up "A Reckless Disregard for Gravity"
for $8. I'm stoked about "A Reckless Disregard for Gravity" because I
played the hell out of the demo. It's on sale tell tomorrow (Thurs 19th)
The list goes on, but this is just the last few weeks of game buying. OH
I almost forgot I also got "Torchlight" full price $20 three weeks ago.
Man now that is one heck of a deal on a great, well made game.
John did you mention something about "purchase discipline" :)
JLC
Werner Punz
some kind of spell to progress further.
Nothing fancy.
Werner Punz
>
FPSs nowadays are probably even more expensive to produce since those
are the games which have to cover the engine development costs ;-)
Besides that I am not talking about the PC games here where I feel the
price is quite right, and the bargain bin time also is ok, but have you
looked at console game prices, sheesh
speaking of ripping their customers off.
The worst case I had seen so far was that Bioshock, the PC version came
out at 10 Euros after having gone to every pricerange and 2 meters away
I could see the PS3 Bioshock version heavily promoted at 70 Euros
in the same store.
So much for piracy keeps the prices up and games would be much cheaper
if people would not pirate games.
Nostromo
Domini:
There's a very simple reason the greedy arsewipes want to prevent 'piracy'
(read: file sharing) & it ain't sales. It's the bad publicity they get in 3
seconds flat for a shit game that people are able to try for *free*, some
times before going to retail even, without getting rose-coloured dollar-sign
glasses & the "I paid for it so I won't bag it because I feel like a
dunce/fool" syndrome. Sure, some will still complain vehemently
online/publicly, especially because they paid for it, but a lot more won't.
There wouldn't be nearly as many impartial web reviews (payola sites like
Gamespot & 'gamers' like Failcon aside) if everyone had to pay for their
games. Why do you think mmos that are shit tank so quickly? Because there's
no easy way to dress it up or disguise the epic fails with marketing monkey
bullshit or plain lies on the box cover or web shite. Same principle as
marketing shit sequels for shit movies - hope the retail bunnies just fall
for the pretty cover & shell out.
Viva la revolucion! >8^D
--
Nostromo
Werner Punz
> There's a very simple reason the greedy arsewipes want to prevent 'piracy'
> (read: file sharing) & it ain't sales.
Not quite right it also is sales, they lied so often about 1 copied game
== one game sold less that they believe it themselves already.
How that works out had german Sky/Premiere PayTV recently to find out.
They locked out all the pirates and lost customers in the end, because
no pirate got a subscription due to a bad price / program quality ratio
and regular paying customers who were not using the official set top
boxes but their own solutions (for digital recording etc...) were locked
out as well. The end result was a steady decline of subscriptions along
the lines of contract periods running out for those persons. Sky still
has not recovered and given that they
write losses this situation in my opinion is disastrous.
But on the other hand serious piracy really can hurt games sales, and
justifying piracy as sort of demo testing does not work out either.
If you look at the iphone situation, piracy rate 90% and more for games
which are in the 1-5$ range. And those pirates really hurt small time
developers who just try to make a living outside of corporations that
way. It just works out for now because there still is the gold rush myth
that you can get rich by doing iphone games.
I personally like the way google handles it in Android you simply can
give back any program within one day if you dont like it period. Hard
for the developers because they cannot earn anything on stinkers but
fair on the customers who legally can test drive the program.
Anyay back to piracy:
The PSP is another such thing, piracy is so strong on that machine
that many developers simply do not support it anymore.
So the entire line is very blurry in this regard. It works best for all
sides in my opinion if there is a good balance between piracy and
regular sales.
But killing off piracy is just killing off another competitor which
results in a price hike, which means in the end the customer is
ultimately screwed.
It's the bad publicity they get in 3
> seconds flat for a shit game that people are able to try for *free*, some
> times before going to retail even, without getting rose-coloured dollar-sign
> glasses & the "I paid for it so I won't bag it because I feel like a
> dunce/fool" syndrome. Sure, some will still complain vehemently
> online/publicly, especially because they paid for it, but a lot more won't.
> There wouldn't be nearly as many impartial web reviews (payola sites like
> Gamespot & 'gamers' like Failcon aside) if everyone had to pay for their
> games. Why do you think mmos that are shit tank so quickly? Because there's
> no easy way to dress it up or disguise the epic fails with marketing monkey
> bullshit or plain lies on the box cover or web shite. Same principle as
> marketing shit sequels for shit movies - hope the retail bunnies just fall
> for the pretty cover & shell out.
>
Payola testing is another issue, this already killed the games magazine
market to some degree (Internet did the rest). I stopped reading those
papers even before the gaming reviews on the internet became big,
because you simply could not trust the reviews anymore. The lowest I
encountered and then I stopped reading was a 90s score in a german
magazine for Ultima 9 which at the time of testing was unplayable.
I had the gutsy feeling of payola before because big publishers always
got big scores small publishers usually were lucky if they got more than
85 if at all, there usually was a 10 points difference in a 100s scale
between those two, and it was not due to quality, the smaller publishers
often had the better games. Ultima 9 for me was then the ultimate proof.
The same payola testing now hits the internet sites, you simply cannot
trust the gig gaming sites anymore. Big publishers will get 90s scores
no matter how shoddy the game is and small ones get smacked on the head
for and rated down a few scores just for being small and no big ad
customer. Those sites have reached now the same quality print mags have
before their downfall.
There are a few sites out there which are better but for now I
personally wait at least 2-3 weeks after a game has been released to get
any honest reviews. Usually it is like that game comes out the first
week the 90s scores from the usual sites roll in, after about 2-3 weeks
the honest reviews and user comments come out and either say the game is
worth playing or a stinker.
If the game comes from a smaller developer I usually wait 2-3 weeks
until the higher scores and good user comments come in. If they do the
game is worth buying if not then the game is a stinker as well.
Nostromo
Domini:
All very salient & well made points. Of *course* file sharing would implode
if it was ubiquitous to the point of no sales, but that isn't what happens,
point in case. I'd be willing to go out on a limb & say that file sharing
has done more for the human race than man walking on the moon. Happy to go
into the anthropology/sociology of it all if anyone is interested :).
I d/l 'try-b4-u-buy' a lot. I play *most* games for less time than most
demos last (I don't trust demos to be indicative of anything any more), & I
rarely finish any games these days unless they're unexpectedly short.
I certainly support quality indy studios/titles in a big way, but the bigger
the publisher/dev studio, the bigger the effort they have to demonstrate
before they get my dollar. By that I mean, fun-factor, innovation, value for
money, scope & 'wow' factor. Anyone demanding top dollar for regurgitating
the same ol shite these days can go the way of the dodo, the sooner the
better I say. In fact, I may d/l their games, but I sure as hell won't
*share* them & I will get vocal online to let as many ppl as possible know
just how shite an A-grade title can be! >8^D
--
Nostromo
Werner Punz
> I d/l 'try-b4-u-buy' a lot. I play *most* games for less time than most
> demos last (I don't trust demos to be indicative of anything any more), & I
> rarely finish any games these days unless they're unexpectedly short.
>
Actually there have been cases in the past where this does not work out,
the pirated version was seriously broken.
As well there are shops which have the give back everything within a few
days no questions asked policy. I have used that one as well from time
to time.
Normally I just wait for the honest reviews to roll in, maybe watch a
handful of youtube videos as well to see if the gameplay is around my
angle and then buy the game. It is about 3-4 games per year anyway
nowadays due to my limited time, due to my baby boy.
I dont feel any need for piracy. Sure the publishers wont earn that much
from me, but I have yet to buy any stinker this year as well ;-).
(One reason why I am still waiting for honest reviews to Assassins
Creed2, this is one game I will have a serious waiting period with, the
first game was boring as hell, glad I did not buy it)
Nostromo
Domini:
>Nostromo schrieb:
>
>> I d/l 'try-b4-u-buy' a lot. I play *most* games for less time than most
>> demos last (I don't trust demos to be indicative of anything any more), & I
>> rarely finish any games these days unless they're unexpectedly short.
>>
>Actually there have been cases in the past where this does not work out,
>the pirated version was seriously broken.
True, but I don't rush out to be the first at commercial s/ware, so I
certainly won't rush to be the first bunny to try torrented games <EG>. Let
the kiddies do the 'testing' & integrity checking in the first week or so,
until the right distro to d/l & use becomes apparent.
>As well there are shops which have the give back everything within a few
>days no questions asked policy. I have used that one as well from time
>to time.
Fair enough, but I've given up on bricks & mortar stores. I may grab a
bargain bin oldie every now & then, but most new titles are grossly
overpriced (down under anyway), so either I get them from o'seas online or
wait until the first round of price drops. And I know about new titles long
before I see them on the shelves here, so what's the point ;).
>Normally I just wait for the honest reviews to roll in, maybe watch a
>handful of youtube videos as well to see if the gameplay is around my
>angle and then buy the game. It is about 3-4 games per year anyway
>nowadays due to my limited time, due to my baby boy.
They do that to you, babies. There should be a law against it I reckon! ;)
(& they know what causes them now & they even have cures! :)
>I dont feel any need for piracy. Sure the publishers wont earn that much
>from me, but I have yet to buy any stinker this year as well ;-).
I guess I must be a hopeless optimist when it comes to games (before I play
them). I would probably only purchase the 'safe' titles like yourself if I
only played what I bought, period. Once in a blue moon I do get surprised by
some of my impulse d/ls & it then almost always leads to a purchase to
support the devs, usually indy titles fall into this category for me.
>(One reason why I am still waiting for honest reviews to Assassins
>Creed2, this is one game I will have a serious waiting period with, the
>first game was boring as hell, glad I did not buy it)
The first one just reeked of consolitis so I didn't even bother to
try-b4-I-buy with it.
A game I may never have bought if I hadn't been able to try it is
Borderlands, & possibly Anno1404, two games that have grabbed my attention
recently (apart from mmos). DA:O is still up in the air until I give it a
better go.
--
Nostromo
Werner Punz
e devs, usually indy titles fall into this category for me.
>
>> (One reason why I am still waiting for honest reviews to Assassins
>> Creed2, this is one game I will have a serious waiting period with, the
>> first game was boring as hell, glad I did not buy it)
>
which I almost bought without even checking the reviews) were two
things, first the honest reviews of Assassins Creed, this is the prime
example how foul smelling garbage can sell in millions if it looks good
and has perfume on top of it.
Secondly, I made once the mistake of not reading reviews and bought the
latest prince of persia because I like the series generally (which still
lives from the good work Jordan Mechner did with Sands of Time) and
wanted to support the no DRM apprach Ubisoft did. Well Ubi had a reason
for no DRM on the latest Pop, the game was dreadful. The lets grap the
casual crowd apprach made the game basically a slow Dragons Lair, push
the correct button within a 3 seconds timeframe, that was it.
Fight ever boss 5 times over without adjusting strategies.
Again, it looked awesome, Ubisoft definitely has the best 3d engine out
there in the wild, everything else looks pale compared to it, but the
game designers really need to go
to game design school for that one, and who also replaced the excellent
english voice artists from the titles before with the ones from the
Zelda cartoons also needs a serious hearing test.
After having been burned with that title I wait at least 2 months before
even considering any Ubisoft title for purchase.
Assassins Creed 1 was another issue, there within a week the first user
reviews started to roll in that the game is boring as hell (which did
not happen that fast in case of POP due to the smaller audience).
I knew instantly stay away from that game.
Anyway POP was the last stinker I have bought so far, and that was
because I ignored my golden rule of giving the game a waiting period
until honest reviews are in.
> The first one just reeked of consolitis so I didn't even bother to
> try-b4-I-buy with it.
> A game I may never have bought if I hadn't been able to try it is
> Borderlands, & possibly Anno1404, two games that have grabbed my attention
> recently (apart from mmos). DA:O is still up in the air until I give it a
> better go.
>
Well some console games can be really good, I do not mind PC ports of
console games, after all the PC version always is substantially cheaper.
There are really good console games, like Okami, or generally the Zelda
series which do not really have eqivalents on the PC.
(Exploratorive Puzzle heavy RPGs)
But generally having to play something upfront can help sales I agree. I
was never a big fan of the Spiderweb games before, last night I started
with Avernum 6 and despite the crude engine, the lousy controls and the
graphics and animations which reminded me a lot on a mix somewhere
between Ultima 5 and Ultima 6 with worse controls, I really have started
to like the game
after the first hour of cursing the controls and graphics, I especially
love it how the story still rolls on while you are in the middle of the
fight, extremely immersive. I will play further but as it looks
Spiderweb will have a sure sell, the demo fortunately is big enough that
you can do a good judgement of it.
Nostromo
Domini:
<snip Ubi expose>
>After having been burned with that title I wait at least 2 months before
>even considering any Ubisoft title for purchase.
>
>Assassins Creed 1 was another issue, there within a week the first user
>reviews started to roll in that the game is boring as hell (which did
>not happen that fast in case of POP due to the smaller audience).
>I knew instantly stay away from that game.
I really am at a point that any games marketed directly by any of the larger
publishers primarily under their own banner, are a no-fly zone for me. They
are invariably commercially raped titles where the devs either end up
getting screwed royally, or they become just like their 'benefactors' imo.
Bioware being a perfect example. And there are few self-published larger
devs left who can be trusted with anyone's money e.g. Beth, Blizz, etc.
The only few larger, commercially successful publishers I tend to 'trust'
with my money (though still never sight-unseen) are ArenaNet, mainly because
of their sub/business model, and maybe Turbine (though for different
reasons; mental note: must try DDO over xmas break). Which is again why
indies quite often get my dollar these days: they offer far better value for
money, usually provide a very indicative demo of the full game (as shareware
used to once upon a time) & they're not greedy, corporate fucks who's only
motivation is the almighty dollar!
MMOs tend to be a whole other kettle of fish. You can't easily
'try-b4-u-buy' in the early days, so you have to rely on gamer reviews &
possibly a free trial at some point. I almost never pay full price for them,
with the exception of LOTRO, which was a no-brainer after being a part of
the beta program (even then I got almost 1/2 AU price from a games shop in
Singapore :). The monthly fee is a non-issue if you get even just a few
hours of monthly entertainment out of a mmo, as I would consider that
reasonable value for money. In any case, mmos are more about the social
aspects for myself & feeling like you're in a world full of real sentient
beings, even though I mainly solo & abhor all thins PvP, go figure.
>Anyway POP was the last stinker I have bought so far, and that was
>because I ignored my golden rule of giving the game a waiting period
>until honest reviews are in.
Always a good principle to adhere to, if you can hold off on the
instant-gratification ;).
>> The first one just reeked of consolitis so I didn't even bother to
>> try-b4-I-buy with it.
>> A game I may never have bought if I hadn't been able to try it is
>> Borderlands, & possibly Anno1404, two games that have grabbed my attention
>> recently (apart from mmos). DA:O is still up in the air until I give it a
>> better go.
>>
>Well some console games can be really good, I do not mind PC ports of
>console games, after all the PC version always is substantially cheaper.
>There are really good console games, like Okami, or generally the Zelda
>series which do not really have eqivalents on the PC.
>(Exploratorive Puzzle heavy RPGs)
I have a rule of thumb: if it's released on a console before, during or not
long after the PC, or if it has any plans to be released on a console, even
if it's a pc 'exclusive' initially, it's a console port, period. And
therefore it will suffer from 1 or more annoying consolitis crap elements.
Which means it has to be *sensational* by all accounts for me to even try
it. There have been very few exceptions in my books, Summoner & some fps
titles spring to mind, that weren't destroyed by consolitis.
>But generally having to play something upfront can help sales I agree. I
>was never a big fan of the Spiderweb games before, last night I started
>with Avernum 6 and despite the crude engine, the lousy controls and the
>graphics and animations which reminded me a lot on a mix somewhere
>between Ultima 5 and Ultima 6 with worse controls, I really have started
>to like the game
>after the first hour of cursing the controls and graphics, I especially
>love it how the story still rolls on while you are in the middle of the
>fight, extremely immersive. I will play further but as it looks
>Spiderweb will have a sure sell, the demo fortunately is big enough that
>you can do a good judgement of it.
Oh yes, Jeff is one of the few indy devs who is keeping up the faith with
old school pc crpgs. If you haven't tried Geneforge, that's his most modern
engine - you can jump right in to the latest one w/o having played the
earlier ones either. Enjoy! ;)
--
Nostromo