NWN... not what I expected
Thrasher
see how I feel about it yet. I'm still creating a variety of characters to
try and find one I can live with. I expected to LIKE the graphics... but I
actually don't. I like the old graphics engine better. Why waste the time on
a 3D game engine if you aren't going to do it right? I can name a dozen RPGs
in the last two years that had better 3d graphics. So hat, you say? Well,
isn't the graphics engine what Bioware has been promoting the last year or
so?
Here's what I see wrong with the graphics engine:
1) The models legs bend at the top of the thigh instead of the hip. Big
deal? Damn sure is. Especially combined with the fat asses they all seem to
have. It makes them look like they are waddling around on stumpy little
legs, swaying their hips the whole time.
2) Metal... doesn't look metallic. It looks gray. Or yellow. Or orange.
3) Weapons... What's with the huge frigging hilts and the tiny little
blades? What's with the bright orange bows? That's _not_ what medieval
weapons looked like.
4) One piece skins instead of composites... Look at dungeon siege to see why
composite skins are vastly superior. Bioware seems to have locked themselves
into their old sprite animation mindset when there was no need to. In fact,
they seem to have retained ALL of their old arbitrary equipment limitations.
Why?
5) Portraits. Why so limited? Why is it that ALL the NPCs are represented
with a seemingly random portrait from the 20 or so total for each sex? The
portraits seem to have no bearing at all to how the NPC actually looks on
the game screen in most cases either. I'm already bored with the portraits
and I haven't even left the training hall yet. If they can't be bothered
with providing a wider variety of portrait, why not have minor NPCs not use
a portrait, like they did in previous games?
Now here's what I don't like about the audio:
1) Player soundsets... the male soundsets are all the same screeching geek
trying to put 8 different intonations into his voice. It doesn't work. They
all sound pretty much the same. I can just imagine in multiplayer trying to
figure out which shouting dork is which. In the spirit of the absurd, I
attached the spastic gay office manager voice to my half-orc fighter.
2) The same screeching dork who did the player soundsets seems to have done
most the NPC dialog. Why is it the trend in PC games seems to be to save
money on the voice acting and break the bank on graphics? Is that really
cost effective? So far I've got Dungeon Siege, Morrowind and NWN in a 3 way
tie for worst voice acting of the year.
3) 3D support... and this isn't just Bioware, it's every game... I don't
like 3D audio. Why can't I turn it off? The option to turn it off seems to
make the game engine use software 3D instead of hardware. I DON'T WANT 3D
AUDIO!!! I've been playing games with headphones on for 10 years, and I
fucking HATE the way 3D audio switches from 100% one side to 100% the other
side just because I moved an inch or rotated the camera. It drives me nuts.
3D audio is the worst thing that ever happened to PC gaming.
Anyway, I feel pretty "underwhelmed" by NWN so far. About as much as I was
with Pools of Radiance. And for the same reasons I suspect. 3D graphics that
almost but not quite lived up to their potential and the damnable third
edition AD&D rules. It's not Bioware's fault that third edition rules are
moronic, but it doesn't help me feel any better about the game.
Oh well. I'm sure 99% of you just love the shit out of NWN and think I'm
being totally unreasonable. Again. That's your business. You should like
NWN, since it's exactly what you were saying you wanted. It doesn't seem to
be what _ I_ wanted though. I guess I'll keep at it and see if my opinion
improves though, since there isn't anything else decent on the market right
now.
BTW, I suppose I'm the only one disgusted by the out of character tutorial
crap spewing from all the NPCs? I keep expecting one of them to tell me how
to contact tech support. There doesn't seem to be an option to turn the
tutorial off either. Very similar to, but worse than, Baldur's Gate 1. I
hope that doesn't mean that they have a thin and poorly developed storyline
like BG1 did. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have no intention of
playing this game online and I'm gonna be pissed if the single player game
is a joke.
CPL Punishment
>isn't the graphics engine what Bioware has been promoting the last year or
>so?
No, they promoted the multiplayer. They did MENTION the 3d graphics, but you
make it sound like that was Bioware's #1 reason their customers should want
this game. They haven't said that at all, not even close. Your post borders
on a TROLL pal.
>1) The models legs bend at the top of the thigh instead of the hip. Big
>deal? Damn sure is.
No big deal, this is nitpicking and WHINING.
>Especially combined with the fat asses they all seem to
>have.
LOL! So they look like most real people? Glad to hear it.
>2) Metal... doesn't look metallic. It looks gray. Or yellow. Or orange.
This is minor and you are grasping at STRAWS.
>That's _not_ what medieval
>weapons looked like.
This is a GAME and not a simulation of real-world events. What's next? You
gonna whine because undead are fake?
>4) One piece skins instead of composites... Look at dungeon siege to see why
>composite skins are vastly superior.
This is not dungeon siege. Nobody is making you play this. Take your whining
to Dungeon Siege. That game SUCKS compared to NWN.
>3) 3D support... and this isn't just Bioware, it's every game... I don't
>like 3D audio. Why can't I turn it off?
You wanna turn it off? Take a sledge hammer to your sound card, that'll turn
it off.
>I DON'T WANT 3D
>AUDIO!!!
WWWWAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!
>3D audio is the worst thing that ever happened to PC gaming.
>
Oh yeah, I can't think of a SINGLE THING worse than 3d audio. You're right
(not).
>Oh well. I'm sure 99% of you just love the shit out of NWN and think I'm
>being totally unreasonable.
This is the smartest thing you've said all day! Go crawl back under your
bridge TROLL.
>It doesn't seem to
>be what _ I_ wanted though.
I didn't know they were making this game special just for you. You must be
royalty or something, huh?
> I guess I'll keep at it and see if my opinion
>improves though, since there isn't anything else decent on the market right
>now.
Don't tell us what you're going TO DO. Just do it and shut up while you're
doing it. You look like less of an IDIOT that way.
>I don't know about the rest of you, but I have no intention of
>playing this game online and I'm gonna be pissed if the single player game
>is a joke.
Then bring it back. The last time I checked Bioware wasn't forcing you to buy
this game.
Maddog
>
> I expected to dislike the game...
[snip - Thrasher's usual negative rant about everything]
But then where would we be without Thrasher to tell us all about
everthing that's wrong with everything!
And so the world continues to turn...
--
Maddog
======
"Lead, Follow, or get the HELL out of the WAY!"
Wally
NWN? I wonder if you even own it at all...
Happy fishing! Better luck next time chuuummmp.
Robert Reynolds
I am far more concerned about the "lack of soul" this game has so far.
Another poster used the term "stale" and I think that may be appropriate as
well. I started BGII about a month ago and keeping thinking about how funky
and cool it is when I am playing NWN. Not a good sign that this game has
legs.
I an also concerned about the multiplayer aspect. It feels like a cross
between Diablo and a virtual theme park. The games I have played so far I
have either been ganked by higher level players or spent time searching
desperately for the rest of the players on the map. The NPCs who lock every
player in the group into the same conversation is quite ridiculous as well.
Also, communication between party members isn't all that compelling and it
is difficult to tell player characters from non-player characters. I have
hopes that multiplayer will really shine when there is a very good DM and a
group of players who can work together to achieve a common goal!
I disagree about the graphics. They are quite stunning on my system and I
continually find myself zooming in to admire different objects. I also think
the spell effects are amazing.
I do agree about the portraits...WTF is up with that? Not one of the 20 or
so actually represented a character I wanted to adopt. Does anyone know if
we can import portraits from BGII?
I've spent a little bit of time with the editor and it is very nice. It
looks like a nice combination between power and user friendliness. I imagine
some nice mods will come out of this tool.
"Thrasher" <spect...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CA6R8.17510$Fv1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
John Alcock
wrote:
>
>Here's what I see wrong with the graphics engine:
>
Question for you. If you don't EVER like a game, why on earth do you
play them?
--
John Alcock
jalcockATearthlinkDOTnet
Bob Perez
"Thrasher" <spect...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CA6R8.17510$Fv1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> like BG1 did. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have no intention
of
> playing this game online and I'm gonna be pissed if the single player game
> is a joke.
Prepare to be pissed.
--
Bob Perez
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they
quit playing."
- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
CardinalT
"CPL Punishment" <scape...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20020622183822...@mb-fe.aol.com...
> >Well,
> >isn't the graphics engine what Bioware has been promoting the last year
or
> >so?
>
> No, they promoted the multiplayer. They did MENTION the 3d graphics, but
you
> make it sound like that was Bioware's #1 reason their customers should
want
> this game. They haven't said that at all, not even close. Your post
borders
> on a TROLL pal.
You're accusing him of not being serious? I thought a troll was when people
posted provocative things they didn't necessarily believe just to get a rise
out of someone. Thrasher doesn't seem to be doing that.
> >4) One piece skins instead of composites... Look at dungeon siege to see
why
> >composite skins are vastly superior.
>
> This is not dungeon siege. Nobody is making you play this. Take your
whining
> to Dungeon Siege. That game SUCKS compared to NWN.
Using your all-purpose definition (i.e. a troll is whatever one disagrees
with), this opinion of yours is a troll. Therefore, it is unworthy of
consideration.
Dumbass motherfucker. (Just thought I'd throw that in, since it seems to be
de rigeuer these days. Don't want to appear foolish by breaching teenage
protocol :)
Christoph Nahr
wrote:
>Question for you. If you don't EVER like a game, why on earth do you
>play them?
So that he can rant about them on Usenet?
--
http://www.kynosarges.de
Ack!
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I have no intention of
> playing this game online and I'm gonna be pissed if the single player game
> is a joke.
Hey thrasher, this isnt Diablo or Baldurs Gate
Bioware is creating a single player game pretty much to show off the aurora
toolset. the game is what you make of it
"Playing this game online" isnt about phat lewtz or smashing barrels. Its
about playing Dungeons and Dragons with some friends over the internet.
But dont worry, there are still many copies of Diablo II and Dungeon Siege
in the stores. You can always add one of those to your unplayed copy of
Morrowind that sits on your "too complicated and time consuming" shelf.
you can find more simplistic gaming to match your level of would be
involvement on a X-Box or PS2
perhaps computer games are to much for your A.D.D. and you should sitck with
a gameboy?
John Alcock
wrote:
>On 22 Jun 2002 19:23:08 -0500, jal...@NOJUNKMAIL.com (John Alcock)
>wrote:
>
>>Question for you. If you don't EVER like a game, why on earth do you
>>play them?
>
>So that he can rant about them on Usenet?
>--
How truly pathetic if so.
--
John Alcock
jalcockATearthlinkDOTnet
Seneca
[ . . . ]
> >1) The models legs bend at the top of the thigh instead of the hip. Big
> >deal? Damn sure is.
>
> No big deal, this is nitpicking and WHINING.
If their legs bend in the wrong place, this seems like a legitimate
complaint to me. I don't see anything "whining" about his mentioning it.
[ . . . ]
> >2) Metal... doesn't look metallic. It looks gray. Or yellow. Or orange.
>
> This is minor and you are grasping at STRAWS.
Metal objects should look reasonably metallic. Other games manage this.
>
> >That's _not_ what medieval
> >weapons looked like.
>
> This is a GAME and not a simulation of real-world events.
If the game displays medieval weapons, they should look like medieval
weapons.
[ . . . ]
> >3) 3D support... and this isn't just Bioware, it's every game... I don't
> >like 3D audio. Why can't I turn it off?
>
> You wanna turn it off? Take a sledge hammer to your sound card, that'll
turn
> it off.
Well, there should be a less extreme method than that. But in this case I
can't understand his complaint either.
[ . . . ]
> >3D audio is the worst thing that ever happened to PC gaming.
I really like 3D audio. [To Thrasher:] What's wrong with 3D audio?
[ . . . ]
> >Oh well. I'm sure 99% of you just love the shit out of NWN and think I'm
> >being totally unreasonable.
>
> This is the smartest thing you've said all day! Go crawl back under your
> bridge TROLL.
He's expressing his opinion. That's not trolling.
Seneca
Transit
>with Pools of Radiance. And for the same reasons I suspect. 3D graphics that
>almost but not quite lived up to their potential and the damnable third
>edition AD&D rules. It's not Bioware's fault that third edition rules are
>moronic, but it doesn't help me feel any better about the game.
>
>Oh well. I'm sure 99% of you just love the shit out of NWN and think I'm
>being totally unreasonable.
I completely agree with all your points. I'm returning it today. This isn't
worth $60 (no, the toolset doesn't make up for it when the game functionality
itself is so unstable and badly done).
R. Cohen
> see how I feel about it yet. I'm still creating a variety of characters to
> try and find one I can live with. I expected to LIKE the graphics... but I
> actually don't. I like the old graphics engine better. Why waste the time on
> a 3D game engine if you aren't going to do it right? I can name a dozen RPGs
> in the last two years that had better 3d graphics. So hat, you say? Well,
> isn't the graphics engine what Bioware has been promoting the last year or
> so?
>
> Here's what I see wrong with the graphics engine:
>
I think the graphics engine has grown on me, I like it more the more I
play.
>
> 4) One piece skins instead of composites... Look at dungeon siege to see why
> composite skins are vastly superior. Bioware seems to have locked themselves
> into their old sprite animation mindset when there was no need to. In fact,
> they seem to have retained ALL of their old arbitrary equipment limitations.
> Why?
>
I agree with you on this point a lot. Both DungeonSiege and Morrowind
do an excellent job of the character reflecting what they are wearing
and I think Bioware could have easily done the same.
> 5) Portraits. Why so limited? Why is it that ALL the NPCs are represented
> with a seemingly random portrait from the 20 or so total for each sex? The
> portraits seem to have no bearing at all to how the NPC actually looks on
> the game screen in most cases either. I'm already bored with the portraits
> and I haven't even left the training hall yet. If they can't be bothered
> with providing a wider variety of portrait, why not have minor NPCs not use
> a portrait, like they did in previous games?
>
A valid complaint but a nit honestly. I didn't check but can you
supply your own portrait?
>
> Now here's what I don't like about the audio:
>
> 1) Player soundsets... the male soundsets are all the same screeching geek
> trying to put 8 different intonations into his voice. It doesn't work. They
> all sound pretty much the same. I can just imagine in multiplayer trying to
> figure out which shouting dork is which. In the spirit of the absurd, I
> attached the spastic gay office manager voice to my half-orc fighter.
>
I'm definitely tired of the same guy screaming when they die. Talk
about chalk on a blackboard!!
Overall I think NWN is very well done, but it seem well crafted and
developed then something, well, "great" (which is the larger realm of
things isn't so bad). Maybe it will start to shine in multi-play. I
have mixed feelings about the single player version. The more I play
the more I enjoy it but there are long stretches where the single
player game seems to be missing "something" so far.
But the comparision between NWN and Pools of Radiance2 has to end at
the graphics engine. NWN is sooooooooooooooooooooo much better than
Pools or Radiance 2!!!!
BTW here is another big plus for the NWN engine. It plays very well
on my middle level system. The graphics are pretty damm good and
performance is generally quite smooth, no halting, stuttering type of
performance problems that was rife in Morrowind.
In the first few weeks of each game 90% of the Morrowind posts were
about performance, performance, performance. Later on gameplay issues
started to come up. while 90% of NWN are all about gameplay,
performance being pretty much non-existant.
El Ravager
wrote:
I considered responding to this message. The only thing I can think
of to ask is this...
When you get cut, do little pussies come hopping out?
- El Rav
mr bernard langham
"Ack!" <lopez...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:r%jR8.56538$UT.38...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Trasher... meet Ack! Ack!.... Thrasher.
I think you'll get on famously.
>^..^<
Bernard
www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~langhb01
Trickle
>playing this game online and I'm gonna be pissed if the single player game
>is a joke.
I find it quite amusing your whole message is basically an indirect
criticism that the developers have made too many easily foreseeable
design line errors, yet you make the oldest end user schoolboy error
in the book and have the bare faced cheek to come here and whine....
You bought the game without waiting to read the reviews. (No, the
majority of the rushed ones out within 3 days or so dont count)
Knight37
>> I don't know about the rest of you, but I have no intention of
>>playing this game online and I'm gonna be pissed if the single player
>>game is a joke.
>
> I find it quite amusing your whole message is basically an indirect
> criticism that the developers have made too many easily foreseeable
> design line errors, yet you make the oldest end user schoolboy error
> in the book and have the bare faced cheek to come here and whine....
ROFL. Good one. But I am glad we have the early adopters to give us the
low-down, and at least Thrasher was more or less coherent in his rant, no?
--
Knight37
"A planet of playthings
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
'The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign'
Blame is better to give than receive"
-- Rush "Free Will"
Olaf
>
> 1) The models legs bend at the top of the thigh instead of the hip.
Big
> deal? Damn sure is. Especially combined with the fat asses they all
seem to
> have. It makes them look like they are waddling around on stumpy
little
> legs, swaying their hips the whole time.
I dont notice this. Maybe you selected the wide body models?
> 2) Metal... doesn't look metallic. It looks gray. Or yellow. Or
orange.
Agree.
> 3) Weapons... What's with the huge frigging hilts and the tiny little
> blades? What's with the bright orange bows? That's _not_ what medieval
> weapons looked like.
Agree. Although I dont really have a problem with stylized
representations of weapons. I do wish the game had more model
customizations based on gear, ala Dungeon Siege.
> 4) One piece skins instead of composites... Look at dungeon siege to
see why
> composite skins are vastly superior. Bioware seems to have locked
themselves
> into their old sprite animation mindset when there was no need to. In
fact,
> they seem to have retained ALL of their old arbitrary equipment
limitations.
> Why?
>
Agree.
> 5) Portraits. Why so limited? Why is it that ALL the NPCs are
represented
> with a seemingly random portrait from the 20 or so total for each sex?
The
> portraits seem to have no bearing at all to how the NPC actually looks
on
> the game screen in most cases either. I'm already bored with the
portraits
> and I haven't even left the training hall yet. If they can't be
bothered
> with providing a wider variety of portrait, why not have minor NPCs
not use
> a portrait, like they did in previous games?
Well, they could have included more. But they did include alot. More
than most games like this, IIRC.
> 1) Player soundsets... the male soundsets are all the same screeching
geek
> trying to put 8 different intonations into his voice. It doesn't work.
They
> all sound pretty much the same. I can just imagine in multiplayer
trying to
> figure out which shouting dork is which. In the spirit of the absurd,
I
> attached the spastic gay office manager voice to my half-orc fighter.
Amen. The character voices are horrible for the guys. The girls I
havent noticed much.
> 2) The same screeching dork who did the player soundsets seems to have
done
> most the NPC dialog. Why is it the trend in PC games seems to be to
save
> money on the voice acting and break the bank on graphics? Is that
really
> cost effective? So far I've got Dungeon Siege, Morrowind and NWN in a
3 way
> tie for worst voice acting of the year.
Agree. I really like good voice acting.
> 3) 3D support... and this isn't just Bioware, it's every game... I
don't
> like 3D audio. Why can't I turn it off? The option to turn it off
seems to
> make the game engine use software 3D instead of hardware. I DON'T WANT
3D
> AUDIO!!! I've been playing games with headphones on for 10 years, and
I
> fucking HATE the way 3D audio switches from 100% one side to 100% the
other
> side just because I moved an inch or rotated the camera. It drives me
nuts.
> 3D audio is the worst thing that ever happened to PC gaming.
I think there is a 2D/3D bias slider that might do a little of what you
want.
> Anyway, I feel pretty "underwhelmed" by NWN so far. About as much as I
was
> with Pools of Radiance. And for the same reasons I suspect. 3D
graphics that
> almost but not quite lived up to their potential and the damnable
third
> edition AD&D rules. It's not Bioware's fault that third edition rules
are
> moronic, but it doesn't help me feel any better about the game.
I like the game. It does feel like advanced diablo, or advanced dungeon
siege though, at least the way it plays. I love the character
development though. More specifically, I love feats. The skills could
use some work, as very few of them seem worth it a general sense.
My main gameplay beef is the henchmen system. I despise it.
I have a lot of problems with the technical bugs as well. So far I have
been hit with
1) Not even being able to load the game on one machine due to Securom
protection. A minor annoyance with the cracked exe, but a very big
annoyance before I got my hands on it.
2) Random hard crashes. Huge irritation factor. Not sure what is going
on here.
3) Black screen multiplayer bug. Annoying.
4) Corrupt save games. Game stopping, how wonderful. Basically, the
NPCs in the temple turned aggro on me, out of the blue, for no reason.
5) Unauthorized CD key error. More annoying than anything, but it
really chaps my ass when this kind of thing (along with the first bug I
listed) lessens my gameplay experience. It should bother developers
too, but it doesnt.
Anyway
olaf
Fuggar
@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
>
> 1) Not even being able to load the game on one machine due to Securom
> protection. A minor annoyance with the cracked exe, but a very big
> annoyance before I got my hands on it.
I had to reinstall before I could upgrade. This is a problem with my new
CD-R drive. If I reinstall old DVD-ROM drive no problems with Securom.
>
> 2) Random hard crashes. Huge irritation factor. Not sure what is
going
> on here.
So far been lucky. Save game once and then quit. Game crashed while
quitting.
>
> 3) Black screen multiplayer bug. Annoying.
>
> 4) Corrupt save games. Game stopping, how wonderful. Basically, the
> NPCs in the temple turned aggro on me, out of the blue, for no reason.
>
> 5) Unauthorized CD key error. More annoying than anything, but it
> really chaps my ass when this kind of thing (along with the first bug I
> listed) lessens my gameplay experience. It should bother developers
> too, but it doesnt.
>
6) Your character can get stuck in walls. I had my character near a wall.
Turned him around and he went half way into the wall. I tried and tried
and couldn't get him to move. Luckily I had a save from just before. I
now religiously save game.
7) Started a character has a fighter. Got him upto 2nd level then for 3rd
switched to Wizard. I can't cast spells using the dial. I have to drag
spells to quick bar to cast.
8) Path finding really sucks. I continually have to go back to get NPC or
familiar from stuck area.