Amazon.com users hate "Spore" DRM
DC
If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com
http://atu.ca/SPORE you may be surprised to notice that the
game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
rights management, or DRM (via Destructoid).
..Spore's DRM limits owners to only three activations of
the game after installation. The point is to prohibit
software pirates from sharing and reusing activation codes
over and over, but it also means that if a user happens to
uninstall and reinstall Spore more than three times for
completely legitimate reasons, they'll have to contact
Electronic Arts customer support to request and have
approved a new authentication on a case-by-case basis.
Which is precisely what has Amazon users up in arms.
A quick scan of the negative reviews reveals some bitterly
sensationalistic headlines: "DRM Kills another potentially
great game," "Not a chance until the DRM goes," and "DRM
complicates life, removes value." One reviewer, who calls
the DRM "draconian," even likened a purchase to a rental as
opposed to an actual ownership of the game, since a player
could theoretically be barred from playing their copy of
Spore if they use up their activations and EA refuses to
allow more. "What you will be left with is a nice, colorful
$50 coaster. And you will be required to pay for another
copy/license if you want to continue playing," the user
writes.
And believe it or not, this backlash comes after EA and
Maxis made Spore's DRM less stringent, when fans decried
the originally announced plan to require online
authentication every 10 days. As for how much the Amazon
debacle will affect sales of the game remains uncertain,
but it's probably a PR problem that EA and Maxis could have
happily lived without.
WDS
> If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com you may be surprised to notice that the
> game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
> and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
> of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
> are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
> thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
> rights management, or DRM (via Destructoid).
So what? Of those 159 one star raters probably none of them actually
have the game. My guess is someone orchestrated a "let's diss Spore
on Amazon" campaign.
BTW, I couldn't care less as Spore doesn't interest me.
Tim O
<nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>1Up.com http://atu.ca/647
>
>If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com
>http://atu.ca/SPORE you may be surprised to notice that the
>game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
>and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
>of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
>are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
>thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
>rights management, or DRM (via Destructoid).
I'm no fan of this type of copy protection, and could give less than a
shit about Spore, but this reeks of some web sites DRM agenda.
Here is my take on this, and what I suggest publishers do... These
titles are mostly only hot to pirates when they're new. If they
implement the DRM for the first few months of of the release they
would protect their program and satisfy long term fans. Perhaps patch
it or have it do one last "phone home" once the game hits the 20
dollar price point. After that point, all you would need is the CD key
and the install limitation would be removed.
I don't understand why someone would need to reinstall 3 times in that
time period unless they're a shithead that deserves to deal with phone
support.
Raymond Martineau
<nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>1Up.com http://atu.ca/647
>
>If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com
>http://atu.ca/SPORE you may be surprised to notice that the
>game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
>and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
>of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
>are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
>thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
>rights management, or DRM (via Destructoid).
Amazon is known to remove inaccurrate or irrelevant ratings. For
example, if a large quantity of ratings focuses on a single aspect
(e.g. this game had DRM, one star), it gets ranked down. If it's well
reasoned (e.g. Normally I'd give a high rating, but for this site, you
may expect to come close to the activation limit, thus I'm forced to
give a low rating), it's unlikely to be removed.
Schrodinger
"DC" <nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote in message
news:94b9b5835db6b616...@pseudo.borked.net...
I installed it on a laptop for the kids to play and switched off the
wireless network before doing so and it worked fine. It has been online
since, however, so maybe it is time limited somehow.
Either way, it's another reason to simply get a pirated copy next time and
not have to put up with the bullshit.
Wolfing
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:05:07 -0600 (MDT), DC
>
> <nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>
> >If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com
> >game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
> >and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
> >of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
> >are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
> >thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
> >rights management, or DRM (via Destructoid).
>
> I'm no fan of this type of copy protection, and could give less than a
> shit about Spore, but this reeks of some web sites DRM agenda.
>
> Here is my take on this, and what I suggest publishers do... These
> titles are mostly only hot to pirates when they're new. If they
> implement the DRM for the first few months of of the release they
> would protect their program and satisfy long term fans. Perhaps patch
> it or have it do one last "phone home" once the game hits the 20
> dollar price point. After that point, all you would need is the CD key
> and the install limitation would be removed.
less cracked game was available 4!! days before it was released in
North America. So those who pirated the game were and still are
playing the game not caring about how many computers they install it
on, or if they can safely upgrade their video card or hard drive
without the game thinking this is a new installation.
> I don't understand why someone would need to reinstall 3 times in that
> time period unless they're a shithead that deserves to deal with phone
> support.
As specified above, it's most probably not 3 "installs", it might be 3
different hardware configurations (otherwise you could just copy the
game folder and registry and would be able to install it as many times
as you want). That means, upgrading your video card, buying a new hard
drive, adding memory, installing a Bluray player, etc. could
potentially count as a new installation. Also, I don't do it as
frequently as other people, but in the last 4 years I've re-installed
Windows 2 times, that means 5 years from now I would probably be out
of luck if I wanted to play a game I bought today.
WDS
> The whole point is that DRM does *nothing* to stop pirating. The DRM-
> less cracked game was available 4!! days before it was released in
> North America. So those who pirated the game were and still are
> playing the game not caring about how many computers they install it
> on, or if they can safely upgrade their video card or hard drive
> without the game thinking this is a new installation.
DRM is like locks on your house. It won't keep out a pro or something
who REALLY wants in but it will dissuade the casual thief.
CoinSpin
The only difference being you aren't only given 3 keys to your house and
told "this is all you get." And every time you enter your house one of
the keys breaks... heh
CoinSpin
Wolfing
And also, one thing is the standard copy protection, that will do what
he said... dissuade the casual thief, but Spore's DRM is really bad
for the consumer. I personally applaud and hope that the Amazon scores
news (that by now it's pretty much everywhere, I saw it in my yahoo
news page) gets to EA's ears.
Loren Pechtel
wrote:
>I don't understand why someone would need to reinstall 3 times in that
>time period unless they're a shithead that deserves to deal with phone
>support.
I'm on my third install of Windows in the last 6 months or so. Full
installs, not repair. It has caused me to have to contact one place
to get additional activations.
Tim Smith
DC <nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
> 1Up.com http://atu.ca/647
>
> If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com
> http://atu.ca/SPORE you may be surprised to notice that the
> game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
> and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
> of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
> are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
> thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
> rights management, or DRM (via Destructoid).
Quite a few of them have something else in common: they are from people
who either have not written any amazon reviews before this, or are from
people that had one or two reviews a long time ago, plus a negative
Kindle review a year ago, and now this.
I don't know how widespread that is, but there is definitely some kind
of organized attempt to rig the vote.
This wouldn't be the first time. There's some anti-DRM people
systematically tagging Kindle books with anti-DRM terms and slogans.
It's not just anti-DRM people who try to manipulate Amazon. When Ron
Paul's book came out, there was a call on a popular Paul website to go
give the book five stars, and links to that quickly circulated. It very
quickly got several hundred 5 star reviews, and each of those was voted
as helpful by hundreds of people (yup...not only did the Paul flock
members have time to go to Amazon, make new accounts, and add 5 star
reviews, they had time to go vote up each other's reviews).
--
--Tim Smith
Tim O
I don't want to stray too far off the point, but what exactly are you
doing to your machine that requires that? It used to be at least once
a year with Windows 98, but since 2000 came out, the number of times
I've needed to reformat and reinstall the OS can be counted on one
hand. Thats maintaining about 5 machines, too.
My old gaming rig, a 3ghz Athlon XP became my wifes PC when I
upgraded. That computer has a 4 year old install of XP thats still
going fine.
mcv
> On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:49:57 -0700, Loren Pechtel
> <lorenp...@hotmail.invalid.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:29:52 -0400, Tim O <tim...@REMOVEhotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I don't understand why someone would need to reinstall 3 times in that
>>>time period unless they're a shithead that deserves to deal with phone
>>>support.
>>
>>I'm on my third install of Windows in the last 6 months or so. Full
>>installs, not repair. It has caused me to have to contact one place
>>to get additional activations.
>
> I don't want to stray too far off the point, but what exactly are you
> doing to your machine that requires that?
Maybe he's playing games on it. Some games have DRM that not only
cripples the game itself, but the entire PC. And reinstalling Windows
is the easiest way to fix that.
Looks like a nice vicious cycle, that.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
CoinSpin
I love how quickly conspiracy theorists can jump to conclusions. You do
realize that it could just be that people REALLY DON'T LIKE THE DRM,
don't you? Spore is one of those games that appeals to a wider,
different audience, so maybe those people have never written reviews
because they've never had cause to. Maybe they are younger or older
than the usual demographic that buys and rates games at Amazon. Or
maybe, just maybe, they've just put up with shortcomings in the past and
never felt the need to complain about anything until they ran into
something that got them so up in arms they felt the need to rebel and
make their voice heard!
Seriously, the DRM on Spore is ridiculous and only punishes and limits
the legitimate purchasers of the game, it will not stop the hardcore
pirates. It doesn't take a conspiracy theory to think that maybe those
legitimate purchasers are upset and want people to know about it. Maybe
they (like ALL other protesters EVER) are hoping that their viewpoints
will eventually make their way to someone who matters and can make a
difference, like the game publishing company.
CoinSpin
Loren Pechtel
wrote:
>On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:49:57 -0700, Loren Pechtel
><lorenp...@hotmail.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:29:52 -0400, Tim O <tim...@REMOVEhotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I don't understand why someone would need to reinstall 3 times in that
>>>time period unless they're a shithead that deserves to deal with phone
>>>support.
>>
>>I'm on my third install of Windows in the last 6 months or so. Full
>>installs, not repair. It has caused me to have to contact one place
>>to get additional activations.
>
>I don't want to stray too far off the point, but what exactly are you
>doing to your machine that requires that? It used to be at least once
>a year with Windows 98, but since 2000 came out, the number of times
>I've needed to reformat and reinstall the OS can be counted on one
>hand. Thats maintaining about 5 machines, too.
>
>My old gaming rig, a 3ghz Athlon XP became my wifes PC when I
>upgraded. That computer has a 4 year old install of XP thats still
>going fine.
I haven't done anything oddball that I'm aware of.
One was a barf during a motherboard replacement--after the repair
install Windows decided it was running on drive E, one was Windows
deciding that if I pressed a key at the login prompt that it was no
longer going to act upon the keyboard or mouse. (It was *NOT*
hung--wait and the screen saver kicked in. Move the mouse and it
restored--but the mouse pointer didn't move.)
Trimble Bracegirdle
Great fun to start & mess around in but soon get bored .
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") mouse
Rob P
"Wolfing" <wolf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ba68005-2929-4851...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Can't we report EA to trading standards in the Uk? After all I'm sure
neither the advertising on Amazon nor the box mention anywhere that one only
has a maximum of three installs (across hardware), surely this is a
misrepresentation of the contents of the box.
RobP
Trimble Bracegirdle
rather than the Game ??
(\__/)
(='.'=)
Shawk
> ...also it's interesting that nearly all of this thread is Re: the DRM
> rather than the Game ??
That'd be because the thread is about comments about DRM and not the
game no?
Tim Smith
CoinSpin <coin^spam^sp...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I love how quickly conspiracy theorists can jump to conclusions. You do
> realize that it could just be that people REALLY DON'T LIKE THE DRM,
> don't you? Spore is one of those games that appeals to a wider,
> different audience, so maybe those people have never written reviews
> because they've never had cause to. Maybe they are younger or older
> than the usual demographic that buys and rates games at Amazon. Or
> maybe, just maybe, they've just put up with shortcomings in the past and
> never felt the need to complain about anything until they ran into
> something that got them so up in arms they felt the need to rebel and
> make their voice heard!
Most of the reviewers haven't ran into anything yet. They are posting
their reviews *before* trying the game. That rules out most of your
explanations.
--
--Tim Smith
CoinSpin
Umm, because draconian DRM measures are turning them off from buying the
game in the first place.
Doesn't rule out any of my explanations at all, just strengthens
them... They are protesting the DRM that is souring their potential
purchase in a medium that they hope will get some attention, since the
developers obviously don't give 2 shits about the average (as in silent)
consumer's opinion.
But I do have one area that I have to agree with you there... There
should NEVER be "customer reviews" of a title allowed prior to any
customers actually HAVING the product. That's just plain silly.
CoinSpin
Darin Johnson
> Most of the reviewers haven't ran into anything yet. They are posting
> their reviews *before* trying the game. That rules out most of your
> explanations.
But I want my reviews before I buy a game. If the only
people doing reviews are professional gaming magazines and
web sites, then you can't trust the reviews. That's why I
don't buy games until months or years after they come out :-)
--
Darin Johnson
CoinSpin
I think I kinda get Tim's point, though... Amazon is supposed to have
consumer reviews of a product by actual purchasers of the product, so
how can the consumers rate it before it's even available for sale? Up
until the date of release, the only people capable of truly "reviewing"
a game would be the press and people given early copies for evaluation.
CoinSpin
Rob P
news:72088a8a-e226-438e...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Agreed. None of the professional reviewers mention DRM or activation limits.
To me this is a fundamental part of the merchantable package as it directly
affects its value.
I am of the belief that the advertising and the packaging of these DRM laden
games is in breach of the UK Sale of Goods Act 1979 with respect to 'Of
Satisfactory Quality'.
A consumer should know, before they buy a game, how often they can activate
or install it. Not indicating these limits directly affects the
Merchantable quality and value of the package, yet it is never placed on the
packaging or advertising. This is a misrepresentation of the contents of the
box as a consumer can reasonably expect to install a piece of software as
often as they like, provided that there is only ever one instance of the
installation at any one time and that they are the legal owners of the
CD/DVD.
I am in communications with the Uk Trading Standards body about this and
hope to pursue this further.
RobP
Dimensional Traveler
--
"What Kind of perv rememembers the scenes where she's clothed???" -
Anim8rFSK, 8/23/08
SpammersDie
"CoinSpin" <coin^spam^sp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:LKqdnaD9Z7r2QlvV...@comcast.com...
> Darin Johnson wrote:
>> On Sep 9, 11:56 am, Tim Smith <reply_in_gr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Most of the reviewers haven't ran into anything yet. They are posting
>>> their reviews *before* trying the game. That rules out most of your
>>> explanations.
>>>
>>
>> But I want my reviews before I buy a game. If the only
>> people doing reviews are professional gaming magazines and
>> web sites, then you can't trust the reviews. That's why I
>> don't buy games until months or years after they come out :-)
>>
>
> I think I kinda get Tim's point, though... Amazon is supposed to have
> consumer reviews of a product by actual purchasers of the product, so how
> can the consumers rate it before it's even available for sale?
I only care about that when it affects the accuracy of the reviews, and
accuracy doesn't seem to be in dispute here.
CoinSpin
Doesn't it? I mean, I understand giving a bad review because of DRM,
but they are giving the lowest possible review scores for the DRM issue
ONLY, without having played a single solitary second of the game. So it
could have incredible, awesome, radically fun game play... And have
this DRM issue... But if you just look at the Amazon score of 1 star,
without delving deeper into why it's only got 1 star, you'd get a false
impression that the entire game sucks ass.
So, yes, I'd say accuracy of the reviews should be questioned. I stick
by my earlier comment, letting someone rate a game they have NEVER EVEN
PLAYED is just ridiculous. But I'm torn, because I applaud the
reviewers for attempting to make a stand against the DRM through this
review process... Bah, it's making me schizophrenic!
CoinSpin
John Lewis
Hey, Tim.
I have refused to buy EA's Mass Effect because it uses the same DRM as
Spore, akthough I would really like to buy the game. I have never
pirated any computer-games, so a torrent alternative is not a personal
option. In the case of Spore, it seems a universally awful game from
my personal view, but I can understand the DRM uproar from those who
would like to play the game. EA is in the process of acquiring Take
Two, so while thay are in that process, they might just consider
copying the Bioshock DRM scheme - 5 installations, each RECOVERABLE
whenever the game is uninstalled. Easily implemented in a patch to
Spore or Mass Effect. Bioshock originally had a far more stringent DRM
scheme, but (unlike EA so far) Take Two/2K Games listened to the
customers and migrated to the current DRM scheme after the first 2
patches - applicable to all copies of the game regardless of purchase
time.
John Lewis
John Lewis
Having a teeny-weeny comprehension problem today, mousey. Please read
the header to this thread. If you want to discuss the (lack of) virtue
in the game-play of Spore, feel free to start another relevant thread.
John Lewis
SpammersDie
>>>
>>
>> I only care about that when it affects the accuracy of the reviews, and
>> accuracy doesn't seem to be in dispute here.
>>
>
> Doesn't it?
> I mean, I understand giving a bad review because of DRM, but they are
> giving the lowest possible review scores for the DRM issue ONLY,
The score is a separate thing from the review. Scores are inherently
subjective and can't really be "disputed." I'm talking about the factual
assertions in the text of the reviews, which I haven't seen anyone
disputing.
> without having played a single solitary second of the game. So it could
> have incredible, awesome, radically fun game play...
But if it comes packaged in a DRM that these reviewers find unacceptable,
then the product is worthless and it's the product that's being reviewed. It
just doesn't matter how wonderful the gameplay is if people won't buy it
because of the DRM - hence, a "1 star" in the DRM category *should* limit
the total score to 1. It also works the other way: if the gameplay is a "1",
it doesn't matter if the game has no DRM at all - the total score can still
be no better than 1.
> And have this DRM issue... But if you just look at the Amazon score of 1
> star, without delving deeper into why it's only got 1 star, you'd get a
> false impression that the entire game sucks ass.
That's only if you think of the total score as an "average" of the component
scores. For lower-priority categories like graphics, that makes some sense
but the really critical categories like gameplay, bug-freeness and DRM
(really a subcategory of the "bug-freeness" category) can and should act as
ceilings on the total score.
none
> Here is my take on this, and what I suggest publishers do... These
> titles are mostly only hot to pirates when they're new. If they
> implement the DRM for the first few months of of the release they
> would protect their program and satisfy long term fans.
The cracked version of Spore was on usenet around a week before the US
release.
~None
Justisaur
> On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:51:26 -0700, Tim Smith
>
>
>
> >In article <94b9b5835db6b616cfdd9f7dd549c...@pseudo.borked.net>,
> > DC <nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
> >> 1Up.comhttp://atu.ca/647
>
> >> If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com
Hmm.. I have Mass Effect. I have had some serious problems with the
system hanging for long periods when there is a CD in the drive. I'm
not sure if it's the DRM that came with Mass Effect or if the drive
itself isn't compatible with my HD, as I had some difficulty
installing windows as well and had compatibility issues between it and
my old HD. but I don't remember that particular problem before
installing Mass Effect - I'm not absolutely sure though. I haven't
put any other CDs in the drive since so it might have just been the ME
CD too.
Is there somewhere you can point me to for people having problems with
this DRM?
- Justisaur
Trimble Bracegirdle
problem"..hopefully it is indeed Teeny Weenie.
...The fact that lots want to discuss the Spore DRM is clear , powerful
symptom
that the game is not interesting them , not enough anyway to take the
collective minds(s)
off the DRM
.
If the game itself is in fact interesting enough to deserve a Thread then
one of those interested here would have started one ?
It would be far to arrogant & forward for one such as I to go against the
clear desires of the masses & start such a Thread .
(\__/)
(='.'=)
Dimensional Traveler
copies keep showing up days or weeks before the "legal" versions. Like the
problem is not someone buying one and then copying it for the world? And
DRM anti-copying measures on the copies they sell aren't going to do a thing
about large scale piracy because the real software pirates are tapping in
much farther up the distribution chain?
John Lewis
Huh, you show yourself in your "true colors" - just a timid little
mouse.......... Here let me oblige on your behalf...
John Lewis
John Lewis
>
>
>
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> they might just consider copying the Bioshock DRM scheme - 5
> installations, each RECOVERABLE whenever the game is uninstalled.
That assumes that you managed to run the uninstall program, though. If
you've had a problem with Windows that meant that you had to reformat
the machine then the activation's still gone, I would imagine.
--
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
nos...@jades.org /is/ a real email address!
John Lewis
<nos...@jades.org> wrote:
>On the 10 Sep 2008, john...@verizon.net (John Lewis) wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> they might just consider copying the Bioshock DRM scheme - 5
>> installations, each RECOVERABLE whenever the game is uninstalled.
>
>That assumes that you managed to run the uninstall program, though. If
>you've had a problem with Windows that meant that you had to reformat
>the machine then the activation's still gone, I would imagine.
>
Not if you have generated one or more image/incremental backups of
your system (C:) drive after installing the game. Just recover the
latest image. Added benefit -- no need to re-install Windows. Anybody
who does not regularly image backup their system partition, or perform
a System Restore before installing new drivers or applications
deserves the consequences.
Anyway, in many cases of problems with Windows integrity, an uninstall
of an application can still be successfully performed before taking
any more drastic measures to rectify the problem.
John Lewis
Darin Johnson
> Two, so while thay are in that process, they might just consider
> copying the Bioshock DRM scheme - 5 installations, each RECOVERABLE
> whenever the game is uninstalled.
How about no DRM at all? I don't want my game to have to
call home to a server to get permission every time I install a
game. It doesn't fix the fundamental problem that you're
relying on the publisher's infrastructure to remain around
and accessible for as long as you want to play the game.
John Lewis
<da...@usa.net> wrote:
I agree entirely!!! But the paying customer suffers the consequences
of rampant piracy. No piracy, no DRM -- except for Valve, who have
another few Valve-benefiting reasons to permanently attach their
purchasers to Valve via Steam.
John Lewis
Shawk
Kroagnon
"SpammersDie" <x...@xx.xx> wrote in message
news:NNJxk.210305$102....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> I mean, I understand giving a bad review because of DRM, but they are
>> giving the lowest possible review scores for the DRM issue ONLY,
> The score is a separate thing from the review. Scores are inherently
> subjective and can't really be "disputed." I'm talking about the factual
> assertions in the text of the reviews, which I haven't seen anyone
> disputing.
>> without having played a single solitary second of the game. So it could
>> have incredible, awesome, radically fun game play...
> But if it comes packaged in a DRM that these reviewers find unacceptable,
> then the product is worthless and it's the product that's being reviewed.
> It just doesn't matter how wonderful the gameplay is if people won't buy
> it because of the DRM - hence, a "1 star" in the DRM category *should*
> limit the total score to 1. It also works the other way: if the gameplay
> is a "1", it doesn't matter if the game has no DRM at all - the total
> score can still be no better than 1.
I totally agree that DRM should be included in the score - it's ever bit as
important as the gameplay if you can't even GET to the gameplay due to the
DRM.
These fucking publishers go on and on about "piracy destroying the PC games
industry" and yet keep putting in more and more DRM that pisses off more and
more people. If a gamer can just download a pirate copy of a game for free
without any DRM, or pay $50-$60 for a game with draconian DRM, which do you
think they are going to do? Why would anybody buy these games?
How exactly do I buy a game without DRM, supporting the developer while
bypassing the publisher?
Bent C Dalager
>
> How exactly do I buy a game without DRM, supporting the developer while
> bypassing the publisher?
There is no general way to bypass the publisher. If you purchase the
game then get the no-DRM crack, however, you can buy your game and
play it too.
Legality may vary.
Cheers,
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - b...@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
powered by emacs
CoinSpin
And people wonder why "PC games are failing" these days... Many of the
titles are available on consoles, where you can go and play to your
heart's content without having to deal with DRM issues - it's all
built-in in a sub-level you never really even have to acknowledge on the
console. Pretty sad when consoles are becoming more "plug & play" than
the PCs that originated the phrase.
CoinSpin
none
> Anybody
> who does not regularly image backup their system partition, or perform
> a System Restore before installing new drivers or applications
> deserves the consequences.
Err...what? Why on earth would you waste time and space backing up Windows
or your applications, both of which can be easily reinstalled? Anything that
traps system calls (as SecuROM does) may or may not work with system resore.
Just as you can't use system restore to remove most spyware/worms - which,
let's face it, is essentially what SecuROM is.
~None
David Alex Lamb
> Pretty sad when consoles are becoming more "plug & play" than
> the PCs that originated the phrase.
Nitpick: I'm pretty sure it was the Mac that invented "plug & play."
David Alex Lamb
> I am in communications with the Uk Trading Standards body about this and
> hope to pursue this further.
More power to you. Unfortunately the computing industry in general has
done its best over the years to avoid having to live up to trading
standards, to the extent in some cases claiming that providing you a
disk was a "service" and not a "product" (which has totally different
liability laws)
CoinSpin
Well, true and false... The Mac had "plug & play" capabilities for
quite a while previously, but Microsoft is generally credited with
coining the actual phrase as part of the sales pitch for Windows95.
They wanted people to think it was a shiny new thing, came up with a
quirky little catchy name for it, and made like they had invented the
concept. Kinda like they did with the whole windows concept... It's
all about the PR spin, you know.
CoinSpin
Ross Ridge
> Pretty sad when consoles are becoming more "plug & play" than the PCs
> that originated the phrase.
David Alex Lamb wrote:
> Nitpick: I'm pretty sure it was the Mac that invented "plug & play."
CoinSpin <coin^spam^sp...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Well, true and false... The Mac had "plug & play" capabilities for
>quite a while previously, but Microsoft is generally credited with
>coining the actual phrase as part of the sales pitch for Windows95.
Well, the phrase "plug and play" predates both. I had an Okidata ML92
printer from 1983 that supported a "Plug 'N Play" option. It made it
emulate an IBM printer so in theory it could be used with an IBM computer
without requiring special Okidata drivers (for each of your applications).
I recall at the time that phrase wasn't unique to Okidata, and was sort
of a buzz word.
Note that early Macintoshes didn't support any sort of plug and play
functionality. Plug and play refers to the ability to plug in some
sort of device into a computer and just have it work. Early Macs didn't
support pluging in much of anything.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
DC
<94b9b5835db6b616...@pseudo.borked.net>
DC <nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>
> 1Up.com http://atu.ca/647
>
> If you take a look at Spore's listing on Amazon.com
> game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
> and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
> of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
> are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
> thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
> rights management, or DRM
"Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever, Thanks to DRM" -
http://atu.ca/675
Andrew
<nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>"Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever, Thanks to DRM" -
>http://atu.ca/675
Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever, by a bunch of thieves pretending they
are on a moral crusade.
No wonder PC gaming is dying.
--
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Shawk
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:49:00 -0600 (MDT), DC
> <nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>
>> "Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever, Thanks to DRM" -
>> http://atu.ca/675
>
> Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever, by a bunch of thieves pretending they
> are on a moral crusade.
>
> No wonder PC gaming is dying.
Absolutely they should have bought the game if they're going to play it
but I do have to wonder. Is there any merit to the argument that people
that might normally have bought the game, that might normally be averse
to d-loading something for free are now getting so fed up that they're
looking to d-load because of DRM? I'd certainly be interested to see an
independent study of that.
Walter Mitty
None. They *claim* thats why they download. But in reality they know
full well that in the "vogue" period they would never install it 5 times
anyway. Like all DRM like this they know it will be cracked or opened up
later.
They are thieving scum. Nothing more, nothing less.
> I'd certainly be
> interested to see an independent study of that.
--
Andrew
wrote:
>Absolutely they should have bought the game if they're going to play it
>but I do have to wonder. Is there any merit to the argument that people
>that might normally have bought the game, that might normally be averse
>to d-loading something for free are now getting so fed up that they're
>looking to d-load because of DRM? I'd certainly be interested to see an
>independent study of that.
If people want to protest, don't buy the game, and email the
publishers telling them why. Publishers have no way of knowing which
of the millions of warezed copies are just the usual thieves or those
"making a stand" (no difference in my mind) so therefore no useful
message is sent.
Anssi Saari
> Note that early Macintoshes didn't support any sort of plug and play
> functionality. Plug and play refers to the ability to plug in some
> sort of device into a computer and just have it work. Early Macs didn't
> support pluging in much of anything.
My first memory of plug and play is someone trying to detach an extra
battery from a laptop and put in a CD drive, in a modular bay or
whatever it was called back then. Laptop was running Windows 1995 and
the guy gushed about how cool plug and play is. The machine crashed of
course...
I seem to also remember the iMacs did popularize USB in the late
1990s, with the first iMac which came out in 1998. So that would be
the start of plug and play on the Macs.
JAB
Unfortunately the whole article has the air of trying to justify why
someone is right to pirate a game ... to me it's just a really weird
sense of logic that can come to this conclusion.
freestonew
> 1Up.comhttp://atu.ca/647
>
> If you take a look atSpore'slisting on Amazon.comhttp://atu.ca/SPOREyou may be surprised to notice that the
> game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
> and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
> of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
> are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
> thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
>
> ..Spore'sDRM limits owners to only three activations of
> the game after installation. The point is to prohibit
> software pirates from sharing and reusing activation codes
> over and over, but it also means that if a user happens to
> uninstall and reinstallSporemore than three times for
> completely legitimate reasons, they'll have to contact
> Electronic Arts customer support to request and have
> approved a new authentication on a case-by-case basis.
> Which is precisely what has Amazon users up in arms.
>
> A quick scan of the negative reviews reveals some bitterly
> sensationalistic headlines: "DRM Kills another potentially
> great game," "Not a chance until the DRM goes," and "DRM
> complicates life, removes value." One reviewer, who calls
> the DRM "draconian," even likened a purchase to a rental as
> opposed to an actual ownership of the game, since a player
> could theoretically be barred from playing their copy ofSporeif they use up their activations and EA refuses to
> allow more. "What you will be left with is a nice, colorful
> $50 coaster. And you will be required to pay for another
> copy/license if you want to continue playing," the user
> writes.
>
> And believe it or not, this backlash comes after EA and
> Maxis madeSpore'sDRM less stringent, when fans decried
> the originally announced plan to require online
> authentication every 10 days. As for how much the Amazon
> debacle will affect sales of the game remains uncertain,
> but it's probably a PR problem that EA and Maxis could have
> happily lived without.
same at Best buy, sunday the 15th of september, only a thee star
rating out of maybe six or seven stars and most people had terrible
experiences with this.
I feel that the most "intelligent" user reviews tend to be on amazon!!
freestone
Loren Pechtel
>On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:49:00 -0600 (MDT), DC
><nob...@pseudo.borked.net> wrote:
>
>>"Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever, Thanks to DRM" -
>>http://atu.ca/675
>
>Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever, by a bunch of thieves pretending they
>are on a moral crusade.
>
>No wonder PC gaming is dying.
No. Get too offensive about the DRM and people will pirate rather
than put up with it.
Spore isn't going to do nearly as well as they expected because it's
simply not up to the hype. They will of course blame piracy but
that's not the real cause.
Shawk
Its that kind of site though Jab - pro-sharing.
That's why I'd like to see an independent study - I think it'd be of
interest to publishers and devs. I'm sure that a number of people who
read the outcry on Amazon and other sites but were looking forward to
the game may well have though I wonder how hard bit-torrent actually is
to use?
Walt's confident that no decent person would be driven to behaving like
a criminal even if people consistently treat them as criminals and I'm
sure he's right for a percentage of people. Andrew has a good, common
sense point but I'm not sure that 'if' normal non-thieving bastards
suddenly decide to d-load Azureus of UTorrent because they've had enough
of DRM whether they are bothered about sending a message or just want to
play.
This game is the wrong one for such a study anyway by the sound of it.
Even without DRM it hasn't turned out to be much of a game and I'm not
sure 'any' of those million d-loaders would have paid for it...
JAB
Like all these things trying to work out the real figures is going to be
difficult as a simple example I'm one of those d/l but I also bought the
game - Amazon's predicted delivery time was way to long! Saying that I
can see there being people that because of the hype surrounding the DRM
then justified pirating the game because of that or even didn't realise
that sites like pirate bay even existed. In the end the sales figures
that will really count.
Oh and as a game I really like it if you can get past the it's more a
pastime than a normal game IMHO. I liken it to something that's easy
just to spend the odd hour here and there just playing around with. I
love STALKER but it's nice to have something "fun" to play occasionally.
Dimensional Traveler
I've never pirated a game or downloaded a cracked version but there have
been several that I would have bought if not for the DRM or other malware
that would have had to be installed with them.
--
"What Kind of perv rememembers the scenes where she's clothed???" -
Anim8rFSK, 8/23/08
David Alex Lamb
> I seem to also remember the iMacs did popularize USB in the late
> 1990s, with the first iMac which came out in 1998. So that would be
> the start of plug and play on the Macs.
I seem to recall plug-and-play far preceding the iMac, but sometimes my
recall isn't worth much.
David Alex Lamb
> Walt's confident that no decent person would be driven to behaving like
> a criminal even if people consistently treat them as criminals and I'm
> sure he's right for a percentage of people.
"Criminal" is a pretty loaded word. Laws have a wide range of
seriousness, and there's lots of evidence that many (maybe most) people
don't consider some of them (say, speeding laws, or jaywalking laws) to
be so serious as to be worth obeying if it's inconvenient to do so.
It has long been clear, since at least the days of cheap photocopying
and cheap audio cassettes, that a large fraction of the public has
trouble taking copyright seriously. I can easily imagine people who
never bothered to figure out how to pirate anything suddenly getting
pissed off enough about laws they barely respect in the first place to
start downloading, just because of DRM.
I am not trying to justify breaking any such laws. While the Pirate Bay
article may well have been trying to do so, I think many newly-minted
pirates might just be saying to themselves "f**k it, that rule is just
as silly as a 100km/hr speed limit on the 401". They might think of
their one download as pretty much equivalent to driving 105km/hr instead
of 100.
Shawk
That was my point David.
Magnate
I've resisted the temptation to join this thread so far, but I just have to
say that that's the best explanation for why DRM is a bad thing that I've
ever seen.
Thanks David.
CC
Magnate
I've resisted the temptation to join this thread so far, but I just have to
David Alex Lamb
> David Alex Lamb wrote:
>> Shawk wrote:
>>> Walt's confident that no decent person would be driven to behaving
>>> like a criminal even if people consistently treat them as criminals
>>> and I'm sure he's right for a percentage of people.
>>
>> "Criminal" is a pretty loaded word.
>
I think what was going on is that I was objecting to what Walt said and
supporting what you said in (I think) a suitably different way to be
worth saying.
David Alex Lamb
> I've resisted the temptation to join this thread so far, but I just have to
> say that that's the best explanation for why DRM is a bad thing that I've
> ever seen.
I guess it's an application of the basic idea that an officer should
never issue an order he knows won't be obeyed, and a legislature should
be wary about passing laws they know are going to be largely ignored.
Shawk
...and saying it much better (I've applied to your fan club) ;-)
David Alex Lamb
> ... a legislature should
Should have finished with: Because that increases disrespect for the law
in general.
Magnate
Agreed again. When are you running for president?
(Just finished season six of the West Wing - suddenly US politics is
interesting!)
CC
David Alex Lamb
Ineligible: Canadian.
Shawk
Even better... no-one in the World really hates you
DC
> game (as of this writing) has an abysmal user rating of one-
> and-a-half stars. But that isn't necessarily an indictment
> of the game's quality -- out of 184 customer reviews, 159
> are one-star ratings, and just about all of them have one
> thing in common: pure, vile hatred of the game's digital
> rights management, or DRM
ZDNet - "Spore DRM could kill PC gaming"
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2617
David Alex Lamb
Bin Laden put us on his List a year or two ago.
Graham Thurlwell
It wasn't called plug-and-play, but a lot of stuff for the BBC micro
and its successors would work straight away. This was because the
drivers etc were in ROMs on the card or peripheral. The Beeb had
massive expandability.
--
Graham Thurlwell.
Jades' First Encounters Site.
http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
Loren Pechtel
Agreed. DRM just encourages hostility towards the game makers and
thus encourages piracy.
MindFever
"Brian Adams" <b...@none.cnn> wrote in message
news:o8lil4p391pppnch2...@4ax.com...
> Yes from what I have read is that SPORE is now the most pirated Game out.
>
>
> Plus the other problem the DRM would not be Valid here in NZ, I often
> have
> to reinstall XP a few times, I play with stacks of software and some
> Beta's,
> our Retail laws stated that it must be fit for the purpose it was made for
> so
> restricting the reinstalls to 5 as I think it would be illegal here.
>
>
that's old news...