Computer Games are on the Decline
WOFFORD JEFFREY M
artful drive, and altruistic passion, corporate America has found, captured,
dissected, and degraded the Computer Game. It was a noble thing once: half
way between Art and Science, it amused and challenged like no other pasttime.
It brought people away from boredom or frustration to alternate worlds,
vivid and alive. It was programmed with love, diligence, and a vision for
excellence. The Game was meant to be enjoyed. It was crafted to stand alone
and independent from its creator, to be sent out into the world with a
value all its own. It was forward-looking, progressive, and challenging.
But now, all that has changed. The Game has been broken. It was pressed into
a mold of verifiable and uninteresting funness, marked with a price and
passed to the masses. They gave willingly to have it, because it was now a
drug to them; a lifeless, empty drug. It helped them to escape for a while,
but its mediocrity left them wanting more, though they did not even know
how mediocre it was, since they had nothing with which to compare. What
would become of it?
There, enough flowery language. Basically, it seems to me after hearing
reports far and sundry that Ultima 8 is going to be a 30 hour game, that
Syndicate was a 30 hour game; and after playing the increasingly mediocre
Ultima series, the last installment of which (Ultima 7 part II) was the first
Ultima game to completely capitalize on the success of previous ones and to
totally ignore the old Richard Garriot addage that each Ultima MUST improve
technologically on the previous one; after Ultima Underworld two was actually
a step BACK from Ultima Underworld I; after playing and then taking back
Strike Commander, which cost $60, was over a year late, was not particularly
fun or playable on even a 4MB computer; after playing and then taking back
Privateer, which was Wing Commander I in sheep's clothing (very little
improvement, if any); after playing Shadowcaster long enough to note that it
is a step back to something just more advanced and involved than Wolfenstein
3D; and after noticing that more than half of every software product on the
shelves today is a no-programming-effort sequel, speech pack, or add-on
disk; not to mention that despite advances in software engineering technology
today's software is ridiculously more buggy than a few years ago; I must
conclude that the computer games industry is entering an era of moronic
greed, laziness, gratuitous capitalization and profit-grabbing. My
commendations to those rare programmers and designers out there who continue
to diligently strive for excellence in a marketplace that pressures them from
every direction to concede innovation, reliability, and creativity for
a quick buck selling software drugs. But is there anything we as consumers
can do to let ever-fattening companies like Electronic Arts know that we
won't put up with short-term, mediocre products? Do enough of us know any
better than to accept these ridiculous offerings? With the advancement of
virtual reality, is society akwardly poised for a collision with ill use
of the drug-like power of electronic games?
I ask you fellow citizens of the electronic world, what of it?
Jeff
Isaac Kuo
WOFFORD JEFFREY M <jwof...@ponder.csci.unt.edu> wrote:
>It was bound to happen. After years of more or less blissful innocence,
>artful drive, and altruistic passion, corporate America has found, captured,
>dissected, and degraded the Computer Game. It was a noble thing once: half
>way between Art and Science, it amused and challenged like no other pasttime.
IMHO, you are looking back on a golden age that never was. There never
really was a time when _most_ games were original and innovative. Really
the only time massive numbers of truly original and innovative games
were produced were almost a decade ago at the height of 8-bit computer
gaming. And that really wasn't so great, since you ended up with tons
of original but unplayable crap with only the occasional M.U.L.E. or
Ultima III or Jumpman which was worthwhile.
Today's market is hardly devoid of originality--depending on your
definition. I'd say it's entirely unfair to try and use the same standards
of originality as 10 years ago since virtually everything has already been
tried. Instead, consider the more lax concept of "freshness." Games like
Stardust or Overkill are returns to classic arcade gameplay styles but
with the kind of parallax scrolling ray-traced graphics and digitized
sound we expect today. Desert Strike, after all, is really just an
update of R.O.B.B. with "realistic" weapons and opponents.
Original? Not exactly. What they are is "fresh," in the sense that they
aren't like the rest of what's out there. They're fun.
Of course, whether or not a game is fun is a subjective opinion. I
personally don't feel computer gaming has gotten significantly better or
worse lately. Most fun games have always been "unoriginal" games simply
because there are a lot more of them around.
--
/["o"]|8 Isaac Kuo (isaa...@math.berkeley.edu)
,^-----^==_ "... his most ambitious record breaking escapade to date,
/___________\ because Richard Branson is attempting to go 24 hours
\=\>-----</=/ without publicity." Mel Smith, Smith & Jones
Mitch Burton
>3D; and after noticing that more than half of every software product on th
>disk; not to mention that despite advances in software engineering technol
>conclude that the computer games industry is entering an era of moronic
>greed, laziness, gratuitous capitalization and profit-grabbing. My
Sadly, it's true. Hell, there exists a very real potential for games in
which instead of your player determining the course of the world, the world
acts on it's own. And it can still be fun. Picture : You, a novice
warrior, out to become rich and famous. Now picture 10 other NPCs out
there wanting the same thing. Did I mention those goblin hordes that have
become such a pain (taking over towns and such) over in the western half
of the continent? Oh yeah. There's a mad mage who wants to blow up
half the world, and a noble adventurer-king who is out to slay him. Read
this as the WORLD should act, not just the player. The course of events
can be weighted slightly by what the player does, so he or she can see
some effect and not get frustrated. There is the potential for numerous
plots and subplots. And, most importantly, it can be different each time
you play. And by sacrificing a little eye candy, you can do it in as
much or less than the space taken by, say, Ultima 7, or some other such
product.
The reason this is not being done, of course, is that it's *risky*. Most
people will either love or hate it, and there's always a chance that gamers
will decide is sucks, it'll flop, and the company that wrote/published it
loses a good deal of money.
To sum it, the problem is that companies are going for the same-old
same-old plus more and more eye candy every time. I don't want to see a
perfect rendition of what happens when I lop off a goblin's head, I just
want to know if it dies or not :)
Ok, I've rambled enough now.
--
| Mitch Burton | Think of it |
| pel...@netcom.com | as evolution |
| pel...@io.com | in action |
Gary R. Kephart
that are trying to do more than before. Check out 7th Guest and Return to
Zork. I have the CD versions. You can't expect the new games to run on
your old machines. They've pushed the limits of 286s and are now forging
ahead to 486s and exploring CD-ROM. I believe that in all the facets of
computing, computer games will always be on the cutting edge.
Gary Kephart
keph...@roses.dny.rockwell.com
Barry Bloom
>It was bound to happen. After years of more or less blissful innocence,
>artful drive, and altruistic passion, corporate America has found, captured,
>dissected, and degraded the Computer Game. It was a noble thing once: half
>way between Art and Science, it amused and challenged like no other pasttime.
>It brought people away from boredom or frustration to alternate worlds,
>vivid and alive. It was programmed with love, diligence, and a vision for
>excellence. The Game was meant to be enjoyed. It was crafted to stand alone
>and independent from its creator, to be sent out into the world with a
>value all its own. It was forward-looking, progressive, and challenging.
How long have you been playing computer games? If I think back hard enough
I can remember plenty of crap games on the Apple, Commodore and Atari. Since
when have computer games been this bastion of excellence and creativity?
The bottom line, in any entertainment industry, is money. Allways has been,
and always will. Sounds like the old music industry rant "You sold out DUDE!"
Lame.
Get a new dealer! :) Besides Sydicate, every game you mentioned was an
Origin game. Origin/EA = computer game industry? From your examples, you
cannot conclude that the computer gaming industry is entering some moronic
phase that only the glorious capitalist can stop. I have always had to
search for games that meet my gaming needs. Fact of life I say. It is
sad that Origin's offerings in the last year have been below their standards.
I can say that if U8 is a 30 hour game...... I will return it and send my
standard complaint letter to Origin.
VR = drug like crazed twelve year olds? That's already here in many fashions.
Adding a helmet and gloves won't make more kids play games. Or me for that
matter. I am already a proud gaming hobbyist. (Nice way of saying Game Addict)
>Jeff
>
>
--
ba...@noc.unt.edu I am convinced that UFOs exist
because I've seen one
-Jimmy Carter
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
: can do to let ever-fattening companies like Electronic Arts know that we
: better than to accept these ridiculous offerings? With the advancement of
: virtual reality, is society akwardly poised for a collision with ill use
: of the drug-like power of electronic games?
: I ask you fellow citizens of the electronic world, what of it?
I think it's kinda amusing how you complain that games are all alike, and
all the games you mentioned were sequals. (except syndicate).
Good games that were thought out, and don't dissapoint? Let me take a shot
at this: Some recent (?) games -
LucasArts - XWing (no bitmap/polygon wars, please).
I'll be bold, and say that _All_ of their adventure games are
well thought out.
Broderbund - Prince of Persia II. They took their time making it, but it
was well worth the wait.
Sierra - The incredible machine, and the sequel.
WestWood makes good games, too - Lands of Lore and Dune II were both excellent,
well thought out games. Smooth and easy to use. I think Dune II had
the best sound effect usage in almost any game.
There are plenty more, that I haven't played. Simcity 2000 seems like a sure
winner. Betrayal at Krondor had a interesting interface, but I haven't played
it myself.
Yes, there is a lot of crap out there. Look, and if possible, try before you
buy. Or, have patience, and listen to the feedback on the net about a game.
Because hidden in the pile of rubble are some gold bricks. You just have
to make sure you don't buy really thinly gold plated bricks. =)
- Frank Wang
fw...@sbcs.sunysb.edu
Shannon Bradford
were. Some seem to be going backwards. I was excited when games went from
EGA to 256 color. From PC speaker sound to sound card support. These were
big steps in the gaming industry. Unfortunately, recent advancements haven't
been as large. I have yet to see a high color or true color game. Few use
state of the art modeling processes. I understand the problems. Remember
how big Strike Commander was? Think of how big it would be in true color.
Few of us, have the huge hard drives that it would take to run these monsters.
Still, it seems that the gaming industry seems happy with it's present state
of technology and doesn't seem to want to press the envelope as much as it
used to.
Another distressing trend, is the corporate take overs of some of the smaller
(and not so small) software companies by the gaming giants. Many are losing
their individuality that made their games interesting. When was the last time
you saw an Origin game that was really something new and great? Sure, they've
put out some good stuff recently, but not the mind blowing, ahead of everyone
else kind of stuff like they used to. I remember the first time I saw
Wing Commander I. I was stunned. Besides, Origin is just one example. There
are many others. Unfortunately the gammers are the ones paying the price,
literally thank you, for this...
Shannon
Ted Dennison
|> It was bound to happen. After years of more or less blissful innocence,
|> artful drive, and altruistic passion, corporate America has found, captured,
|> dissected, and degraded the Computer Game. It was a noble thing once: half
|> better than to accept these ridiculous offerings? With the advancement of
|> virtual reality, is society akwardly poised for a collision with ill use
|> of the drug-like power of electronic games?
|>
|> I ask you fellow citizens of the electronic world, what of it?
|>
|> Jeff
|>
|>
Cooooooool!
Hu-hua. Hu-hua. Hu-hua.
(sorry folks, that's my best Beavis and Buthead impersonation)
T.E.D.
Jason O'Rourke
of the 'Greats' of the past 2-3 years.
Civ
Wing Commander I/II (I thought the speech improvements in II added a lot)
Warlords I/II (SVGA for II)
Xwing + addons
World Curcuit
Links, Links386
Wolf Wolf Wolf + homebrews
Falcon
Comanche
Stunts
Biomenace on 'hard'
7th Guest - not my favorite, but for others
Alone in the Dark
I don't play the rpg games, which there seem to be thousands of. Surely
a couple of these rate well.
There have been spectacular failures (to me, strike commander, maybe fs5)
that were long overdue, and too slow when they arrived. But I see no
shortage of games that can be played for some years.
In the past there were greats like Hard Hat Mack, Pinball Construction kit,
and test drive i/ii (especially nice on amiga), but sound was not a feature
of ibms until Creative Labs managed to introduce the Sb standard.
You can add to the above list of games, or suggest others, but any flames
of the list can be stuffed [somewhere] The thing wrong with games these
days is it takes many people a long time to produce what we expect for
$40. In the old days, it took a lot less work for that money.
Jason O'Rourke
Philip Brown
In <2bttd5...@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> sbra...@ecst.csuchico.edu (Shannon Bradford) writes:
>Remember
>how big Strike Commander was? Think of how big it would be in true color.
>Few of us, have the huge hard drives that it would take to run these monsters.
That's why some of the larger games should be designed to run off CD-ROM,
not just have it as an installation media.
Would you really care if a game took 60 seconds to load from CD-ROM, if
it was the best game you ever played?
Likewise, would 10 second pauses between key stages kill your enjoyment
of a game?
>Still, it seems that the gaming industry seems happy with it's present state
>of technology and doesn't seem to want to press the envelope as much as it
>used to.
It doesn't have to. It just has to make better use of what it's got.
The prime trouble I think is in the software industry:
"Game Companies" are turning into "Marketing Companies".
The unfortunate thing is.. that's the only way to make an "acceptable"
level of profit these days.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Look! Up in the Sky! It's a bird!" "It's a plane!" "It's... time for lunch!"
"Naaa. it's just SuperBabs"
"Well, I was hoping it was time for lunch..."
William Speiser
|> |> virtual reality, is society akwardly poised for a collision with ill use
|> |> of the drug-like power of electronic games?
|> |>
|> |> I ask you fellow citizens of the electronic world, what of it?
Unfortunately, I must concurr. It seams I had much more fun playing
the good old apple II choplifter and the atari 800xl fort apocalypse
than I ever had playing comanche maximum overkill.
I thought this may have been an exagerated memory from my youth, but
I pulled out my old 8bit and played, and suprisingly it was pretty fun.
I think the real problem is that we play games to escape from reality
into a world where we actually get points and win. Now that game realism
is at its peak, games may not provide the escape were looking for.
Bilbo Baggins
Shannon Bradford
Philip Brown <ph...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>
>In <2bttd5...@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> sbra...@ecst.csuchico.edu (Shannon Bradford) writes:
>>how big Strike Commander was? Think of how big it would be in true color.
>>Few of us, have the huge hard drives that it would take to run these monsters.
>
>not just have it as an installation media.
>
>Would you really care if a game took 60 seconds to load from CD-ROM, if
>it was the best game you ever played?
>
to make these changes. Like you said before, it's becomming to much of a
marketing industry, that has lost sight of it's main theme; making good
games that improve as technology improves. Some would say, what about all of
the current great games we have. But the problem isn't that we don't have
some pretty good games out there (and a few great ones). It's that the
there doesn't seem to be as much drive in the gaming industry to both make
good games and make them technologically superior. Instead, the industry
seems to be focusing on the marketing/make a profit now end of things.
Shannon
Michael Lewchuk
>It was bound to happen. After years of more or less blissful innocence,
>artful drive, and altruistic passion, corporate America has found, captured,
>dissected, and degraded the Computer Game. It was a noble thing once: half
>way between Art and Science, it amused and challenged like no other pasttime.
You mean like the text-only adventures "Adventure International"
put out for the Apple and TRS-80, or the Pac-Man and Defender and
Space Invader rip-offs that grew into prominence during the 80s?
>But now, all that has changed. The Game has been broken. It was pressed into
>a mold of verifiable and uninteresting funness, marked with a price and
>passed to the masses. They gave willingly to have it, because it was now a
Uh, excuse me:
1. Inform me when Nintendo stops making 2D games whose primary objective
is to kill whatever moves on the screen. I'd like to see something
even remotely original in this respect. That, and SuperMario XXVII.
2. Computer games have always been marked with a price. Where were you
when they sold for $20 in the early 80s?
3. If they're not "passed to the masses", they ain't played.
>There, enough flowery language. Basically, it seems to me after hearing
>reports far and sundry that Ultima 8 is going to be a 30 hour game, that
Rumor. Btw: 30 hours is relative depending on what you do and how quickly
you can solve it.
>Ultima series, the last installment of which (Ultima 7 part II) was the first
>Ultima game to completely capitalize on the success of previous ones and to
>totally ignore the old Richard Garriot addage that each Ultima MUST improve
>technologically on the previous one;
It improved. Your character can now freeze or bake. Temporary subscenes
can be created which allow your position to essentially be saved while
something else goes on (a waking dream, perhaps).
Who says *you* have to notice all the new spiffy stuff they put in the code?
>after Ultima Underworld two was actually
>a step BACK from Ultima Underworld I;
In what way? Was it the appearance of a larger number of objects? How
about the larger number of levels? Perhaps the variety of environments?
Or maybe you didn't like the fact that it was still in VGA and Lord British
didn't look good close-up.
>after playing and then taking back
>Strike Commander, which cost $60, was over a year late, was not particularly
>fun or playable on even a 4MB computer; after playing and then taking back
SC requires a 486/33 with 8Mb RAM recommended. Don't blame Origin if they
program for a higher end system than you have. Instead, don't buy it. That
way they know they'll have to program for 4Mb 386s.
Btw: was SC good by your other standards: graphics or improvement in some
way over most flight simulator games?
If you aren't sure, WAIT. Listen to the comments on InterNet, and then buy it.
If you don't like the comments, don't buy it. And if you don't like the
release date (I agree Origin should try to stick to their release dates, but
there are nuts out there who wanna buy the next product NOW and don't have any
notion of the word "patience" and Origin has to cater to them too), then try
programming or debugging the game yourself.
>3D; and after noticing that more than half of every software product on the
>shelves today is a no-programming-effort sequel, speech pack, or add-on
Hardly "no programming effort". Besides, how much of every Origin game goes
into *graphics* and *sound*, not programming? Methinks you would be very
surprised at this.
If you wish to write your own scenarios, by all means go ahead. Get xdk and
you can create an unlimited number of Xwing missions (you did buy Xwing,
didn't you? I'm not sure since you haven't whined about it yet) so you'll
never have to buy another mission disk again.
>today's software is ridiculously more buggy than a few years ago; I must
Today's software tries to do continuous graphics on a VGA screen, AI, and
several other things all for better "realism" which all these gamers seem
to demand. Look, complex tasks require more complex programming. Just
installing Falcon-AT on a 486 does NOT turn it into Falcon 3.0.
>conclude that the computer games industry is entering an era of moronic
>greed, laziness, gratuitous capitalization and profit-grabbing. My
Actually, the gamers are entering an era of greed, impatience, and
unwillingness to pay for services rendered. "Gratuitous capitalization
and profit-grabbing" is the motto of your beloved capitalism, my dear sir.
What else do you expect them to do? If half the gamers are greedy, whining
for SVGA software at $20 a pack, of COURSE they'll get add-ons and not
full games each time. Either that or shareware.
>commendations to those rare programmers and designers out there who continue
>to diligently strive for excellence in a marketplace that pressures them from
>every direction to concede innovation, reliability, and creativity for
Name a few products and programmers you ARE satisfied with. The one thing
that pressures them from "innovation" is that they can make more with average
stuff than "super" stuff. If they take 3 times as long to make a product
that sells for $120, who will buy it, when they can just pick up another
Ultima for half the price? And would it really be *that* much better?
>? With the advancement of virtual reality, is society awkwardly poised
>for a collision with ill use of the drug-like power of electronic games?
Yes.
>I ask you fellow citizens of the electronic world, what of it? >Jeff > >
All I can say is : pay for your software. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
If it doesn't appeal to you, sell it to someone else, don't take it back. It
ain't Origin's fault that you don't like their games.
Michael Lewchuk
lew...@cs.UAlberta.CA
Michael Lewchuk
>I agree with you. Games don't seem to be improving as rapidly as they once
>were. Some seem to be going backwards. I was excited when games went from
>EGA to 256 color. From PC speaker sound to sound card support. These were
>big steps in the gaming industry. Unfortunately, recent advancements haven't
>Still, it seems that the gaming industry seems happy with it's present state
>of technology and doesn't seem to want to press the envelope as much as it
>used to.
Um, since when does the gaming industry have any say in the technology
involved? I agree they could move from SoundBlaster to SBPro and SB16
and the other little dohickeys I see in various stores, but what of it?
Btw: as far as I can tell, allegedly no computer can support the data
throughput that is required for real-time SVGA graphics. Although we
have gone from 8088 to Pentiums, not many computers out there have the
local bus 1Mb/2Mb SVGA required to move that data fast-fast-fast. Face
it: the hardware industry is dying in terms of better monitors and sound.
The thing today is CD-ROMs, processor power, and local bus graphics so
that we can start seeing some games doing real-time SVGA. But especially
CD-ROMs.
>Another distressing trend, is the corporate take overs of some of the smaller
>(and not so small) software companies by the gaming giants. Many are losing
>you saw an Origin game that was really something new and great? Sure, they've
>put out some good stuff recently, but not the mind blowing, ahead of everyone
>else kind of stuff like they used to. I remember the first time I saw
That's because everyone else has caught up with them. The smaller companies
and individual writers of the 80s became the corporations of the 90s or were
phased out, so that the bad stuff isn't put out anymore. Corporations can't
afford bad stuff, so Origin doesn't look as good because everyone else isn't
as bad anymore.
>Wing Commander I. I was stunned. Besides, Origin is just one example. There
>are many others. Unfortunately the gammers are the ones paying the price,
So don't buy from them anymore. Wait for InterNet reviews before buying. The
2 or 3 day wait is usually a small price to pay for getting more information
on what a game is like.
How shall I put this: "Don't ask whether it's new or awesome or whatever.
Find out whether you LIKE it or not and then do or don't buy it". It's
not Origin's responsibility to keep 5 steps ahead of everyone else, you know.
If you LIKE Ultima Underworld 2, buy it. Don't worry if it's a rehash of
UUW1 in terms of interface. Or are you buying games solely for the purpose
of seeing a new graphics or sound technique? If so, I think you picked the
wrong computer (and the wrong continent). Amigas in Europe are best for this.
>Shannon
Michael Lewchuk
lew...@cs.UAlberta.CA
Rick Reed
former head of 20th Century Fox as CEO, games long on graphics, though short on
gameplay (Crash & Burn)...
-Rick
Bowers, Michael
>I must
>conclude that the computer games industry is entering an era of moronic
>greed, laziness, gratuitous capitalization and profit-grabbing. My
Sounds like the RPG market to me.
:-) :-) :-)
-----
My .sig was crashed by a .sig virus.
Ismo Peltonen
(I've got EGA), don't have 20MB free HD space (I could manage even three
or four MB quite easily, more than that is hard, as I currently have
less than 1MB free), don't have sound card, and so on?
Once I had SVGA, SB, and 300MB DOS partition. I could install Wing
Commander II with all the speech disks and so on (took 21MB if I
remember right). I had it a week or so. Then I decided that I have other
things to do with that 20MB, and deleted it. And a week was a LOT in my
case (most often I checked the game (which took one or two days) before
deleting it). Oh yes, I bought only those games I thought were worth
that (after checking them, and only if the stayed on my HD for more than
the normal a few days).
But, even when many games came and went (taking anything from 5 to 25MB),
there were some that stayed (Empire was one of them. 'Wargame of the
Century'), and generally they were those that took only one meg of HD,
could do with less than 4MB of RAM (although I do have 8), and so on.
I've come to the conclusion that the lifetime of a game depends on the
space it takes (the more space it takes, the faster I need that space
for something else, while those who take very little space can well stay
there).
--
Elandal (aka Ismo Peltonen) # snail Hanuripolku 5B15 #
# mail 00420 Helsinki #
home (UUCP): Ismo.P...@Tower.NullNet.FI # FINLAND #
Univ (inet): Ismo.P...@Helsinki.FI # #
# Phone data +358-0-5072005 #
Errare humanum est. # voice +358-0-537515 #
(1.0.1) GCS/O -d+(--?)@ -p+(-) c++(++++) l(+) u(+) e+(*) m(+)@
s+/ n- h f+ g+ w++(+++) t+ r++(++++) y?
Jacques Guy
>>Ultima series, the last installment of which (Ultima 7 part II) was the first
>>Ultima game to completely capitalize on the success of previous ones and to
>>totally ignore the old Richard Garriot addage that each Ultima MUST improve
>>technologically on the previous one;
Why should it improve? U7 is about as good as such a game can get. The
only room for useful improvement would be catering for those cases when
your characters paint themselves into a *BLOCKED* corner.
>>after Ultima Underworld two was actually
>>a step BACK from Ultima Underworld I;
What??????? UU2 was a gigantic improvement on UU1 in the graphics
department. Creatures and objects got terribly blocky close-up in
UU1. There get bearably blocky in UU2.
Enough said. That was patent intellectual dishonesty and humbuggery.
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, bitch, like the honourable
poster.
David A. Masten
There is always a tendency to remember the great oldies and forget
the duds. Happens in TV, movies, records, games, heck life.
I think we get a heck of a lot for our $40 in general. Look at what
Falcon3 does for that paltry sum!
Some games I consider fantastic either for comprehensiveness,
originality, playability, or sheer amount of effort that went into
it:
Falcon3
World Circuit
Tornado
X-Wing (okay, this one is close)
Star Control II (great game!)
Air Warrior
MOO (maybe)
Wing Commander (sort of)
etc.
Yep, there are plenty of duds. You have to watch out for falling for
the pre-release hype and pretty cover art. Wait for reviews (Gamebytes,
the net, CGW) if you really don't want to "waste" your $$.
Dave
Michael Bush
>Unfortunately, I must concurr. It seams I had much more fun playing
>the good old apple II choplifter and the atari 800xl fort apocalypse
>than I ever had playing comanche maximum overkill.
>I thought this may have been an exagerated memory from my youth, but
>I pulled out my old 8bit and played, and suprisingly it was pretty fun.
>I think the real problem is that we play games to escape from reality
>into a world where we actually get points and win. Now that game realism
>is at its peak, games may not provide the escape were looking for.
I think current games are still interesting, but they do not inspire
the player to use their imagination as much as the old games. I like
playing current offerings such as Comanche, but I like games like
Megafortress because they offer more of an opportunity to develop
strategy while still offering decent graphics. The old games still
have their appeal, though- I keep an Apple II around so I can keep
on playing Castle Wolfenstein.
>Bilbo Baggins
--
Mike Bush
Raytheon Equipment Division
bu...@tif396.ed.ray.com
Mitch Burton
I agree there..
>MOO (maybe)
Also a very cool game. I only got it a couple days ago and I've put 15-20
hours into it already.
I wish people would forget about the eye candy and work harder on the game
itself... Graphics are nice, yes, but 1) I'm one of those poor souls with
an old 80meg harddrive, I don't really have the space for the pics even if
I wanted them and 2) companies these days seem to put more effort into
graphics and sound than into the game itself :( (I wish they'd at least
provide an option to not install all those sound files I can't use...)
Don't get me started on what I think of those intros that take up more
space than the rest of the game..
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
Thats my problem with games like Doom. I don't want a game based on
reality, I just want a game. The last computer game I was hooked on was
Civ. Now there is Epic Pinball/silver ball. Most of the games I have played
the time inbetween have been real yawners.
I guess I should mention Wolf 3d although that was more or lass a passing
fancy.
Rob Merritt
email:rcme...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil**Disclaimer: My opinions are mine alone,
Sysop of Moon Base Tycho BBS. **not of my employer, of my friends and
(410)391-6291, Running Renegade **family, nor of a co-worker.
[Team OS/2] "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be" -unknown
Peter
I used to get far more excited and involved playing the old
text adventures.
Then again, I was a teenager in those days, and my imagination
and sense of excitement and adventure hadn't been obliterated
by years of study at uni and work.
: >Bilbo Baggins
Jason Packer
David A. Masten <mas...@beta.lanl.gov> wrote:
>Yep, there are plenty of duds. You have to watch out for falling for
>the pre-release hype and pretty cover art. Wait for reviews (Gamebytes,
>the net, CGW) if you really don't want to "waste" your $$.
Or if you live in a civilized place like I do, you can rent games and
test them out for a couple days for a little investment, before you
decide to buy them or not. And more often than not, the cost of the
rental can be applied to purchase.
I personally think that 90% of computer games produced today, yesterday,
and likely tomorrow as well, suck. But then, the last game I liked
enough to rent, let alone buy, was Civilization.
Jas
Bryan Parker
Jason Packer <jpa...@willamette.edu> wrote:
>Or if you live in a civilized place like I do, you can rent games and
>test them out for a couple days for a little investment, before you
>decide to buy them or not. And more often than not, the cost of the
>rental can be applied to purchase.
Well, we must be extremely UNcivilized because it's AGAINST THE LAW in
the US.
Jason Packer
Hate to say it, but I live in Salem, Oregon, in the good ol' US of A,
and we have several different places where you can rent software for
almost any platform.
It must just be in your state...
Jas
Carl D. Perkins
2>test them out for a couple days for a little investment, before you
2>decide to buy them or not. And more often than not, the cost of the
2>rental can be applied to purchase.
>
>Well, we must be extremely UNcivilized because it's AGAINST THE LAW in
>the US.
Nonsense.
It is no more illegal than renting out videotapes - i.e. not at all.
--- Carl
CHARLES P. GREIG
as Canadian law goes, there's a whole s__tload of them here in Toronto. Are
you sure about that?
Philip Brown
>Nonsense.
>It is no more illegal than renting out videotapes - i.e. not at all.
That statement makes me think.
To rent out videotapes, you have to get special liscensing, I think.
Do rest-out shops actually ask the companies involved whether they can
rent out the games?
I suspect not.
Bryan Parker
Carl D. Perkins <ca...@gergo.tamu.edu> wrote:
>>Well, we must be extremely UNcivilized because it's AGAINST THE LAW in
>>the US.
>
>Nonsense.
>It is no more illegal than renting out videotapes - i.e. not at all.
No, I'm afraid you're wrong. It's quite illegal.
Bryan Parker
CHARLES P. GREIG <cs93...@ariel.cs.yorku.ca> wrote:
>>Well, we must be extremely UNcivilized because it's AGAINST THE LAW in
>>the US.
>>
>That's funny.. I've seen 3 or 4 of those rental places in Buffalo. And so far
>as Canadian law goes, there's a whole s__tload of them here in Toronto. Are
>you sure about that?
Yes, I'm quite sure about it. Rental places still get away with it, however.
There is a place here in Austin at which you can 'buy' a game and return
it within 4 days for a 'restocking' fee. The funny thing is that when you
'buy' the game you don't get the box, you just get the software (and manuals)
in a plastic case (a la Blockbuster).
However, if you ask someone at this store if they rent software, the answer
is, "No, that's illegal."
Ron
>>Nonsense.
>>It is no more illegal than renting out videotapes - i.e. not at all.
>That statement makes me think.
>To rent out videotapes, you have to get special liscensing, I think.
>Do rest-out shops actually ask the companies involved whether they can
>rent out the games?
>I suspect not.
I know that places like videostores (ie, Blockbluster) rent out videogames
(mostly Nintendo/Sega). I just joined this newsgroup so I'm not sure
if this is what you're referring to. I believe this is legal, and I bet
Blockbuster has a licensing agreement with the makers of said games to
be able to do this.
- Ron
--
-----------------------------oOO--O--OOo-------------------------------------
rsm5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |o o| Writer, Systems Engineer VSOFT Inc,
u1...@sparc0a.cs.uiuc.edu ||||| Comp Sci, Finance, Law [Allen 251]
-- "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe." -Roy Batty, Bladerunner -
Kevin Munoz
Well, if it is, then please provide us with proof.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Tab damage Caoimhin (Kevin) Munoz
Tab damage kmu...@occs.cs.oberlin.edu
Tab damage
Tab damage
Deal.
Peter Glen Berger
actually *sign* a license agreement or agree to it in some way other
than opening a package.
Peter G. Berger, Esq.
This message should not be construed to be legal advice.
Dave Weinstein
: Nonsense.
: It is no more illegal than renting out videotapes - i.e. not at all.
Unlike videotapes, there is specific language against computer software
rentals in the US Copyright law.
--Dave
--
Dave Weinstein
dwei...@carl.org
CARL Systems, Inc. - Systems That Inform
Estne tibi forte magna feles fulva et planissima?
Mitch Burton
>the US.
<rolls eyes> Yes, it was last time I checked, but you can't stop a store
from implementing a return policy last time I checked. That's all renting
is.
ru...@embl-heidelberg.de
>
>>>Nonsense.
>>>It is no more illegal than renting out videotapes - i.e. not at all.
>>That statement makes me think.
>>To rent out videotapes, you have to get special liscensing, I think.
>>Do rest-out shops actually ask the companies involved whether they can
>>rent out the games?
>>I suspect not.
>
> I know that places like videostores (ie, Blockbluster) rent out videogames
> (mostly Nintendo/Sega). I just joined this newsgroup so I'm not sure
> if this is what you're referring to. I believe this is legal, and I bet
> Blockbuster has a licensing agreement with the makers of said games to
> be able to do this.
>
I was talking to the owner of a local games shop over here in Heidelberg,
Germany. They are not allowed to actually rent games out!
Their trick is to sell the games with a sort of "We_take_the_game_back_if
you_don't_like_it"-guarantee. You pay a deposit of 10 DM which allows you
to try out the game for a day. If you like the game (& decide to buy it)
they substract the deposit off the actual price.
I think this is sort of semi-legal over here??
Thomas
Scott Riffe
As of about two years ago software rental is illegal. I was a member
of a software rental company in Austin prior to this law. When this
law went into effect, "Floppy Joe's" (the software rental co.) had
to change their policy. Now for a $10 a year membership fee, a member
can buy the software and use it for three days. If the member doesn't
like the game or whatever, he can return it and pay a 10% restocking
fee (usually about $5). This is very similar to renting except the
member owns the copyright for three days and returns it.
BTW, if your ever in Austin, stop by Floppy Joes; you can buy (rent) all
the newest games.
Scott
ppug...@pimacc.pima.edu
Illegal in the US? yes; Canada? no
However, in the US it *IS* still legal for software to be sold & then
returned, minus a "restocking fee". So it is effectively still legal.
Mitch Burton
Last I head some group TRIED to get a law passde in the US basically
saying that you can't rent software.. I thought they did get it apssed
but I could be wrong..
In any case, since rental is just a return policy, there is nothing they
can do about it.
Blake Stone
> the new 3DO ...
You're going to claim they're larger than Origin, Electronic
Arts, Sierra On-Line et al? Crystal Dynamics just happens to
have developed the pack-in game for the 3DO, they're far from the
last word in 3DO software.
> ... former head of 20th Century Fox as CEO, games long
> on graphics, though short on gameplay (Crash & Burn)...
While it isn't the deepest game ever, I find Crash & Burn to have
MUCH more depth than I expected and better replay value too.
Most driving games appear to have a bunch of drivers who have no
"personality", they're all more or less the same except some are
better than others.
In Crash & Burn the other drivers each have a VERY distinctive
personality, each matched well with their car's limitations.
You'll find drivers pulling tricks like waiting by the side of
the road for you to catch up so they can nail you, or dropping
behind you if you're doing too much damage so they can try to
sneak by at the end of the race and grab first place.
Better yet, the assortment of weapons (including black market
items) gives a number of different possible approaches to the
game. I won the game initially without using missiles or mines
at all, but as I start to play using other cars, I find that
tactics I ignored initially are required to progress at all.
I'm certainly looking forward to better titles yet, but Crash &
Burn is good enough that I'd have bought it if it had shipped
seperately.
All that said, yes, the game certainly does have stunning
graphics. I look forward to seeing what other developers do with
the hardware.
--
Blake W. Stone | DKW Systems Corporation
Chief Technical Officer | A N[EXTSTEP,eXT[STEP,step,Step]] VAR
bst...@acs.ucalgary.ca |
| ... couldn't have been ME
Joseph Cochran
Michael Lewchuk <lew...@cs.UAlberta.CA> wrote:
>>Ultima series, the last installment of which (Ultima 7 part II) was the first
>>Ultima game to completely capitalize on the success of previous ones and to
>>totally ignore the old Richard Garriot addage that each Ultima MUST improve
>>technologically on the previous one;
>
>can be created which allow your position to essentially be saved while
>something else goes on (a waking dream, perhaps).
>
>Who says *you* have to notice all the new spiffy stuff they put in the code?
Actually, Garriott's philosophy is that each Ultima engine be a
major technological improvement over its predecessor. That's why games
like Savage Land and Martian Dreams were not Ultima games. Ultima 7 part 2
was not felt to be a significant improvement over U7, since it was done on
what amounts to the same game engine, thus it was not Ultima 8.
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@polaris.async.vt.edu
| csi...@polaris.async.vt.edu |
+-------------------------------------+------------------------------------
"Well ... we're back ... in the car again."
"But at least we're out of the tree." Tim and Alan, JP.
Mitch Sprague
Here in Vanier/Ottawa the deal is that the software is not "rented" so
much as "taken out for evaluation". A fee is charged and the full price
is supposed to be charged if the game is installed on a hard-drive. Now,
how they know it isn't installed on a hard-drive is a mystery.
--
|Mitch Sprague |"A short, decisive war is one of the |
|ac...@freenet.carleton.ca | most ancient and dangerous of human |
|ub...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca | illusions." Robert Lynd |
Yong-Su Kim
Stores like BlockBuster can simply buy Nintendo/Sega cartridges and
then rent them to people and charge them for rentals. Game cartridges
are not treated like videos, and are not protected under similar
intellectual property laws.
Of course Nintendo tried to stop BlockBuster from renting game carts
but they were unsuccessful.
You can read all about it in the book:
"Game Over: How Nintendo zapped an American industry, captured
yours dollars, and enslaved your children"
Author: David Sheff.
It's a great book if you want to know how Nintendo has a virtual
stranglehold on the game industry and how there is a Nintendo in
most homes in the US.