WB - Some things change...
Scott Thomson
Well, if anyone hadn't noticed, things *are* changing in WB these days.
Examples:
1. Red "Experten"?: What was once a rarity is now common with the influx
of such high powered squads as the Black Sheep, F'ing Pigs, Muskies and
other "vet" squads to the Reds.
2. Axis rules?: After flying the new planes in v. 110 I can honestly say
I think the German and Japanese designs rule the roost. The Dora-9 is
an *awesome* BnZ plane, and Ki 84 if flown properly can be a very tough
oppenent. Throw in the switch in the FTD's to the P-38L and you have have
got some very competitive historical fighter matchups. Allies still rule
the Buffs (as the should).
3. Buffs as ACK: Despite the numerous and highly irritated episodes of
AAAB-17's and AAAB-25 recently, I seem to actually see some people
using the bombers as they intended. Could be just people practicing
for FG, but I think we might be seeing a subtle "de-dweebification"
going on here. :-)
4. Gunnery up: As anyone else notice the hit % seem to have gone up over
the last few months. We have guys who routinely post rate over 25% and
even a low skill dweeb like me has a 13% rate, must be all those Buffs
I have been killing recently. <G>
5. K/D way up: Talk about a big change, since ICI started the scoring
competition, we have seen the "Experten" posting some impressive K/D's.
While it is true there are lot's of "newbies" flying these days, but
there has *always* been plenty of them. I think that maybe we are seeing
people *consciously* trying to RTB. This is an excellent tread. Of course
*I am* still mucking around in the ACK at F1 like the suicidal fool that
I am, so it's kind of N/A for me personally.
6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
right time of the day.
7. SMT1 flying Axis kites!?: Yes, I admit it...I have flown the Dora and
Frank in the arena, and *enjoyed* it. <oh, the shame> <BFG>
Of course some things *never* change like...
<Begin rant, not for the humor impaired>
Red AAA DeathStars. (actually seen all countrys do it, but I think the
Reds are the biggest offenders).
Red Zeke HO rammers. (I swear that these guys are actually *trying* for
the collision kill, but I can't really support my claim with proof).
Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
Gold FW Headoners. (very frustrating to fight, best to avoid).
Green gear dropper colliders. (what is it with these guys anyway?)
Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
<end cliched "country specific behavior rant">
And of course there is one thing that will *never* change...
SMT1 getting mistaken for the mighty Smut in the arena. :-)
(yes, it happend *again*)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Scott McKay Thomson - OAO International - Second Shift VAX Operations |
| WarBirds: SMT1 <501 FF CO> squadron leadership, planning and training |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Krempasky
Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
>6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
>"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
>definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
>Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
>a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
>right time of the day.
Well, we (The Screamin' Meanies), one of the better Red squads (few
Red squads?) just switched to Gold because we couldn't tolerate the
incompetence anymore. Now I hear a bunch of Gold squads moved to the
Reds - ironic. I've usually fly evenings US Eastern time, and it
seems like the Golds are doing fine, usually have 5+ fields, and have
as many or more guys up than the other countries most of the time.
This is last week - I've only been Gold for that long. Have noticed
that Red is doing a little better; prior to last week, in the last 3
weeks of my Redness, Red NEVER had more than 1-2 fields and I was
online during a red capture of a field ONCE. In the past week it
seems to be the Greens getting their asses kicked now.
Geof Evans
Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) writes:
>Well, if anyone hadn't noticed, things *are* changing in WB these days.
>Examples:
>1. Red "Experten"?: What was once a rarity is now common with the influx
>of such high powered squads as the Black Sheep, F'ing Pigs, Muskies and
>other "vet" squads to the Reds.
Well...finally there are THREE colours to scan the sky for now ;]
>4. Gunnery up: As anyone else notice the hit % seem to have gone up over
>the last few months. We have guys who routinely post rate over 25% and
>even a low skill dweeb like me has a 13% rate, must be all those Buffs
>I have been killing recently. <G>
I spent 2 sorties buff hunting. Managed 0.64% gunnery. Buffs are easy ;]
>5. K/D way up: Talk about a big change, since ICI started the scoring
>competition, we have seen the "Experten" posting some impressive K/D's.
>While it is true there are lot's of "newbies" flying these days, but
>there has *always* been plenty of them. I think that maybe we are seeing
>people *consciously* trying to RTB. This is an excellent tread. Of course
>*I am* still mucking around in the ACK at F1 like the suicidal fool that
>I am, so it's kind of N/A for me personally.
Not for me. Can't break it above the 5:1 mark, no matter WHAT I do
(apart from doing scenic tours for the Bingo crowd)...what has made
it really hard is 4 colours in view not GOLD for every Gold I see.
I distinctly remeber looking back over the wing last night and seeing
a subtle red tinge in the paintwork ;]
>6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
>"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
>definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
>Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
>a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
>right time of the day.
See above reply. On the upside, there are a great many more targets now
...and I actually landed 1 sortie with 3 hits scored and 3 kills ;]
Yes, that Gold D9 at 50ft. winging over endlessly surrounded by Red and
Green and Purple was quite likely me, lost somewhere on the deck over
and over and over again in the F2 -> F3 -> F8 (F7 ?) triangle.
>7. SMT1 flying Axis kites!?: Yes, I admit it...I have flown the Dora and
>Frank in the arena, and *enjoyed* it. <oh, the shame> <BFG>
Shame shall descend on the Ki driver, woe beget the Ki driver.
Glory be to the Dora Angel, unto thee behold the sublime truth
of accelleration and the thunderous glory of 2200 hp.
Unless of course, you are a Red/Green/Purple Dora, then the devil
be your ailerons ;]
>Of course some things *never* change like...
>Red Zeke HO rammers. (I swear that these guys are actually *trying* for
>the collision kill, but I can't really support my claim with proof).
Crazy fools with crack fuelled neural synapses.
>Gold FW Headoners. (very frustrating to fight, best to avoid).
You take it, you will regret it. Fw has BIG guns, NO turn.
I would think this was the first thing to expect, and avoid.
>Green gear dropper colliders. (what is it with these guys anyway?)
Drop your gear in a fight ? Sure, why not ? A knife is a great
defense against a shotgun isn't it ?
Doc.
--
___________________________________________________________________
|| Geof Evans !2! Baby! | DOMAIN:rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU ||
|| God is a comedian playing to an audience too frightened to laugh. ||
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis Moose Gregory
Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
>Well, if anyone hadn't noticed, things *are* changing in WB these days.
>
>Examples:
>
>1. Red "Experten"?: What was once a rarity is now common with the influx
>of such high powered squads as the Black Sheep, F'ing Pigs, Muskies and
>other "vet" squads to the Reds.
We (greens) captured all of Red's fields and "won the war" last night,
but I think that was more of a numbers issue than anything else (I just
logged on at the tail end of the fight, flying with a Hellfish raid to
bomb F1). The Reds have definitely been more aggressive and more skilled,
it's not hard to see the difference that the influx of new pilots has
made.
>4. Gunnery up: As anyone else notice the hit % seem to have gone up over
>the last few months. We have guys who routinely post rate over 25% and
>even a low skill dweeb like me has a 13% rate, must be all those Buffs
>I have been killing recently. <G>
I've somehow managed to hold 15.9% this time around, and I'll be damned
if I know how. <g> I think it involves some judicious B-25 hunting
(low-side gunnery passes...mmmmmmm, buuuuffffsss), flying very few bomber
sorties so autogunners do not lower my percentage, and waiting until I'm
200 yards away to open fire. I also don't B&Z all that much normally,
although I've started doing that more since I've accepted the challenge of
the new planes, especially the 109K for some reason. I'm weird, I guess.
:)
>
>5. K/D way up: Talk about a big change, since ICI started the scoring
>competition, we have seen the "Experten" posting some impressive K/D's.
>While it is true there are lot's of "newbies" flying these days, but
>there has *always* been plenty of them. I think that maybe we are seeing
>people *consciously* trying to RTB. This is an excellent tread. Of course
>*I am* still mucking around in the ACK at F1 like the suicidal fool that
>I am, so it's kind of N/A for me personally.
Maybe so, but a lot of that k/d is being gathered by people that just
hang out near fields and nail people in transit to somewhere else, without
helping their country capture fields or do any of the other reindeer games
we get to do online. It's a perfectly valid tactic, and if it floats
their boat, more power to 'em. Me, I'll never do it because I
occasionally like to get down and muddy in a field defense, or go drop a
few eggs on somebody's head.
>
>6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
>"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
>definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
>Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
>a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
>right time of the day.
That's because they all hang out between F6 and F9. The past few
nights I've been on, there has been a consistent grouping of reasonably
skilled and aggressive gold pilots that capture F9 and then harass F6.
They're usually in the traditional Golden Focke-Wulf Horde (with some
Franks and P-38Ls thrown in) at 15,000', and sometimes they even attack F6
instead of just trying to interdict us from F9. And as for F8...do we
even really need to consider that as a Green field any more? I *never*
see Green own it when we log on, so we're usually down one field from the
start unless we grab F2. :)
>Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
>this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
I'm not an ack hugger, I'm an ack scraper. I usually wind up having to
run home to Mommy with about eight gazillion (well, OK, two) bad guys on
my tail, rolling and jinking frantically as I try to get myself out of
whatever bad situation I've gotten myself into. So I try to find either
the biggest concentration of friendlies or the biggest concentration of
ack, so the bad guys will go away and I can regain my bearings and begin
all over again. On the good side, however, I'm getting *very* good at
guns defense rolls. ;-)
>
>Gold FW Headoners. (very frustrating to fight, best to avoid).
Yes, they still exist, and yes, they piss me off. When I'm in the
109K, though, I'm sometimes tempted to go nose-to-nose with 'em and see if
I can get lucky and punch some 30mm into that nice shiny new Dora of
theirs. :)
Check six,
Lewis "Moose" Gregory
lgre...@concentric.net
7646...@compuserve.com +------------------------------------------
http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory | WarBirds ID: "moos", for the Greens
-------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
CO 94th Composite Group - "The Flying Squirrels" - WATCH YER NUTS!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Moose's Den -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION -- http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory
CJ Martin
In article <587svr$t...@herald.concentric.net>, Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
[snip]
>Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
>this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
Funny how flying red has opened my eyes to what is really going on
here at least 50% of the time...the reds are constantly being vulched,
so they never really get the chance to get clear of the AAA. Not a
bitch, just an observation.
[snip]
>Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
Endless, and the same guys over and over. It is making many of the
Pigs rethink the apparent high scores of some purps.
><end cliched "country specific behavior rant">
>
>And of course there is one thing that will *never* change...
>
>SMT1 getting mistaken for the mighty Smut in the arena. :-)
>
>(yes, it happend *again*)
"Mighty"??? I'm seem to be more of a danger to myself these days than
to others, as I keep relearning that same old lesson:
The ground has a Pk of 1.0.
Smut
William Moran
As someone who has been vulched by golds when flying as green, I would
have to say that some of the "best" gold pilots run their scores up
doing this too. On the other hand, some of the gold pilots are sporting
enough to let you get some E ... and then shoot you down. Vulching is
made much worse by the reds not helping each other at all - green falls
into this trap at times, but it is often because there are 1/5 as many
greens on as any other color. Also green shows up like a come kill
me sign against the ground.
A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
behavior.
mcar
James G. Schuldes
Scott Thomson wrote:
>
> SMT1 getting mistaken for the mighty Smut in the arena. :-)
>
> (yes, it happend *again*)
Try wearing some "Groucho Marx" glasses!~ Or just fly the new SBD (it's
awesome!)
Snak, out!
--
Jim Schuldes
Information Processing Consultant
School of Business Administration
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
zeno
Scott Thomson wrote:
(snip)
>
> 2. Axis rules?: After flying the new planes in v. 110 I can honestly say
> I think the German and Japanese designs rule the roost. The Dora-9 is
> an *awesome* BnZ plane, and Ki 84 if flown properly can be a very tough
> oppenent. Throw in the switch in the FTD's to the P-38L and you have have
> got some very competitive historical fighter matchups. Allies still rule
> the Buffs (as the should).
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Scott McKay Thomson - OAO International - Second Shift VAX Operations |
> | WarBirds: SMT1 <501 FF CO> squadron leadership, planning and training |
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Having already spent some memorable moments in the Dora (and been duely
impressed), it would now be only fitting to have an Allied Forces speed
merchant to step up to give her some serious one on one competition.
(Sorry, IMO, the Pony ain't it.) Some of you know the bird of which I
speak, and have been yearning for it too. (I have heard the pleas on
channel 100.) This has the making of a matchup of epic proportions.
It's time for the Spit XIV!
Before people start sqwaking about "it spent all it's time chasing
V-1s". The XIVs spent less than three months out ot the sixteen they
were in combat (from Jan 44 to VE day 45) chasing V-1s. They downed V-1s
June-Aug 44. From Sept 1, 44 on (shortly after the Dora was introduced)
XIVs were flying over Northern Europe from bases in Belgium as air
superiority fighters, seeing regular combat (as they had Jan-Jun '44)
against the LW. They were also produced in about the same numbers as
the Dora (900+).
Re: "Well if we get the Spit XIV, lets add the TA-152." IMO, the Spit
21 is analogous to the Ta152, not the XIV, both in relative time of
introduction & numbers in combat.
IMO, the SpitXIV is no more an "uber plane" than the Dora (if for no
other reason than ammo capacity). It could be modeled as a variant
(like the Dora) & therefore would not require major artwork like a JUG
or La-5.
The forces of Democracy cry out for a new defender! Just think about
those two worthy opponents tearing up the skys. Plus, IMHO it will be a
blast to fly! ;)
zeno
fats
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>It's time for the Spit XIV!
>Before people start sqwaking about "it spent all it's time chasing
>V-1s". The XIVs spent less than three months out ot the sixteen they
>were in combat (from Jan 44 to VE day 45) chasing V-1s. They downed V-1s
>June-Aug 44. From Sept 1, 44 on (shortly after the Dora was introduced)
>XIVs were flying over Northern Europe from bases in Belgium as air
>superiority fighters, seeing regular combat (as they had Jan-Jun '44)
>against the LW. They were also produced in about the same numbers as
>the Dora (900+).
I was waiting for you Zeno to ask for the XIV.:) At the time that
thread was goin on in here, I was chucklin and waitin for someone to
realize that all XIV Squadrons were transfered to main land. Secretely
hoping no one did.:) I agree Spit XIV should be introduced, how ever
there should be no objections for the Me 262 either.
---
fats
Lentolaivue 24.
p.s. the XIV will kill the D-9 so fast you won't be able to say
"murder".<g>
>zeno
Douglas S. Hillman
William Moran (w...@panix.com) wrote:
:
: A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
: off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
: him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
: behavior.
Having flown as a red for the first 2 1/2 months of my WB career, I know
all about getting vulched. I ALSO know that if you've got ANY brains and
with just a touch of luck you can usually avoid it. When we were down to
only F1 (which was most of the time), I'd get a Spit or Zeke (something I
could work well without alot of alt or E) get off the runway and run East
out to sea as hard as I could. I'd say 80% of the time, I would get out
safely and get enought alt to come back and do some serious defending.
The guys getting vulched are the ones who jump off the runway in a FW and
immediatly start turning after an attacker. They never even get enough E
to make the plane work and consequently get zapped time & again. If you
want to have any success here, you've got to fly intelligently. Takeing
up a FW when your only feild is under heavy attack is just not smart.
Along those lines, now that I fly purple I find myself having a little
pity on the poor imbecile reds. Last night I was over F3 pretty much on
my own. I found 1 red there in a Ki and promptly killed him. He was
immediatly back on the runway taking off again. A simple look around
after typing .fly would have shown me hovering there. He got blasted as
soon as he took off. Next time I gave him till about 3000 feet. But he
had no E when he got to 3000 cuz he just climbed straight up from the
runway at me. Another easy kill. I then told him over 100 that I'd wait
till he got some alt this time to make it fair. He gained alt this time,
but still he climbed as straight up towrads me as he could. This one was
at about 7000 this time. Bang zap - again. I'd like to think that maybe
he learned something from all this, as he didn't try to take off from F3
again. Hopefully at least 1 more red now understands that you're very
seldom gonna get an even break in the arena, and it's senseless to
continue to try if you have other options (ie taking off from a field
which is not being capped by another color).
I do find myself letting guys get up more often though. You might have
seen me anouncing it over 100 the past few nights. After vulching a guy a
few times I'll get tired of it and tell him that I'll let him up and wait
for him at say 8K or so and we'll go from there.
I will continue to zoom down on them as they're taking off a few times
first though. Hey, it's a war out there, and if they're foolish enough to
use poor tactics they deserve what they get. Only after I've hopefully
shown them the error of their ways will I let them get some parity in the
fight.
dobe Doberman <No Squad>
<VF-17 Hanger-On until I get officially invited>
zeno
HeHe -- thanks for your "support" fats, but throwing the Me-262 into
this particular discussion is (IMO) a nonsequitor designed to derail
it. While the Dora & Spit XIV are more or less in the same ball park in
performance (as are say the Spit IX & the A-4), the Jets, are IMO,
operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
Nice try "FW-boy". ; )
zeno
Mark Grabski
CJ Martin wrote:
>
> In article <587svr$t...@herald.concentric.net>, Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
> >this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
>
> Funny how flying red has opened my eyes to what is really going on
> here at least 50% of the time...the reds are constantly being vulched,
> so they never really get the chance to get clear of the AAA. Not a
> bitch, just an observation.
>
> [snip]
>
> >Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
>
> Endless, and the same guys over and over. It is making many of the
> Pigs rethink the apparent high scores of some purps.
>
> ><end cliched "country specific behavior rant">
> >
> >And of course there is one thing that will *never* change...
> >
> >
> >(yes, it happend *again*)
>
> to others, as I keep relearning that same old lesson:
>
> The ground has a Pk of 1.0.
>
> Smut
How do the purps get to the red fields in the first place to vulch?
I don't vulch, but I find the fight is mostly over red fields. I
sometimes wish they were closer to purp fields so I wouldn't have to
fly so far. The reds always seem to come in low. They are
definitly not afraid to get into a fight unlike some of us
'superior' alt boom & zoomers. The reds probably spend more time
in fights then the rest of us getting alt (me included).
Mark (Herc)
zeno
>
> >operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
> >or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
> Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
> other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
>
> ---
> fats
> LeLv 24.
>
> >Nice try "FW-boy". ; )
>
> >zeno
fats
Hehe, tYer right, it would be a "Riot" -- what kind is another question
though. Jets might not rule the arena (can't see T&B'n in one & they
would be an easy vulch takin off) but IMO buffs & 25s would become dead
meat. Those 4 30mms in the 262 would slice & dice um into little pieces
in one pass. (Pardon me for doubting the sincerity of your previous
post.:) )
YFS,
zeno
XXX
Redd
>>Smut
>As someone who has been vulched by golds when flying as green, I would
>have to say that some of the "best" gold pilots run their scores up
>doing this too. On the other hand, some of the gold pilots are sporting
>enough to let you get some E ... and then shoot you down. Vulching is
>made much worse by the reds not helping each other at all - green falls
>into this trap at times, but it is often because there are 1/5 as many
>greens on as any other color. Also green shows up like a come kill
>me sign against the ground.
>A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
>off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
>him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
>behavior.
>mcar
Hehe - same alt and same E are two entirely different things.....
There are vulchers and their are polite vulchers it seems......<g>
All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
advantage when they have it.
Redd VF-17
MJes...@aol.com
Re...@Itg.com.au (Redd) wrote:
>All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
>total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
>advantage when they have it.
>
My (current ;) feeling is that if I have to fly all the way to a
main field to find a fight, I'm going to shoot anything that moves.
- Matt
WB: para
JG14
fats
Andrew Smith
Well.. perhaps the SpitXIV...
but the V-1's would be an excellent addition too ...
(use them for target practice in a Dora. hehe)
Varied and dynamic world with interesting objects with unpredictable
actions (dynamic campaigns! and strategy!)
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<32A8FC...@concentric.net>...
MJes...@aol.com
"Andrew Smith" <smi...@cris.com> wrote:
>
>Well.. perhaps the SpitXIV...
>
>but the V-1's would be an excellent addition too ...
Please, please, let me launch 'em!
>
>(use them for target practice in a Dora. hehe)
>
>Varied and dynamic world with interesting objects with unpredictable
>actions (dynamic campaigns! and strategy!)
>
Given all the unpredictable and dynmamic strategies I see in the arena
day-to-day, I wonder which arena you fly in? ;);)
- Matt
WB: para
Douglas S. Hillman
Andrew Smith (smi...@cris.com) wrote:
:
: Well.. perhaps the SpitXIV...
:
: but the V-1's would be an excellent addition too ...
"I aim for the stars. Sometimes I hit London."
Werner Von Braun
Ruy Horta
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>The forces of Democracy cry out for a new defender! Just think about
>those two worthy opponents tearing up the skys. Plus, IMHO it will be a
>blast to fly! ;)
Before I answer this, I'd like to state that I'm VERY satisfied with
ICI's work. They've just delivered 1 new type and 5 upgrades, not
counting "tweeked" a/c and remodeled art. Thus I find it a bit
childish to demand NEW a/c after less then a week of having v1.10.
IMHO the late war types are about even
4 axis vs 4 allied,
If there's "need" for new a/c, then mainly for early Allied types and
finally Russian A/C (those are being worked on), maybe with the axis
exception of the Bf109E-4 (planned) as the only axis a/c still
"needed" (not talking BUFFs etc).
We can state our preference, this may influence design somewhat, but
its mostly a case of patience. If ICI could give us a MkXIV tomorrow,
I think they would do so.
RH
Michael Toler
: >fats wrote:
: >operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
: >or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
: I can...*lots* of them. I personaly think Jets would be a riot. And
: Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
: other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
Besided, ICI would then get to put in the nigh Infamous damage message:
"Fuel leak. Pilot melted"
Ouch out
--
Michael "Ouch" Toler | Don Gaspard Du Lac
Dallas, Texas | Barrony of the Steppes, Ansteorra
Check out my new Web page (WarBirds) at:
http://home1.gte.net/ouch/ouch.html
George Fisher
:]All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
:]total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
:]advantage when they have it.
:]
War is hell, in real life if a pilot saw a kill... I'm sure
he pulled the trigger!
George
__!__
_____(_)_____
] [
AW DOS: NiteRade (1823)
WarBirds: NiteRade (-nr-)
XO VMA696 "DiamondBacks"
E-Mail: gfi...@uniserve.com
Dan & Lori Nowak
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>fats wrote:
>>
>> zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>
>> >fats wrote:
>>
>> >operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
>> >or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
>> I can...*lots* of them. I personaly think Jets would be a riot. And
>> Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
>> other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
>>
>> ---
>> fats
>> LeLv 24.
>>
>> >Nice try "FW-boy". ; )
>>
>> >zeno
>
>fats
>
>Hehe, tYer right, it would be a "Riot" -- what kind is another question
>though. Jets might not rule the arena (can't see T&B'n in one & they
>would be an easy vulch takin off) but IMO buffs & 25s would become dead
>meat. Those 4 30mms in the 262 would slice & dice um into little pieces
>in one pass. (Pardon me for doubting the sincerity of your previous
>post.:) )
>
>YFS,
>
>zeno
>XXX
Sure, bring in the 262 and 163 but bring them in with all of
their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
pilot if it leaked, etc.
Just kidding, the jets have no place in the game unless you
want to change the name from Warbirds to Secret Weapons of the
Luftwaffe ( and I doubt Lucas Arts will part with the name.).
Bring in the Spit XIV, XVIII and the Tempest V, if only to be
fair to the long suffering Mk IX drivers in our squad and give the
Mustang and Dora drivers something to really worry about.
Dan 'Rott' Nowak
Flight Officer
401 Squadron
RCAF
no...@vaxxine.com
Dan & Lori Nowak
d...@interaccess.com ( Douglas S. Hillman) wrote:
>William Moran (w...@panix.com) wrote:
>:
>: A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
>: off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
>: him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
>: behavior.
>
>
Do all of the new guys still get defaulted to the Reds when
they first sign up? I would hate to put someone off of the game by
vulching the poor sob the first 10 times he tried to take off. This
game is tough enough on the newer players.
Ruy Horta
no...@vaxxine.com (Dan & Lori Nowak) wrote:
> Sure, bring in the 262 and 163 but bring them in with all of
>their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
>explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
>pilot if it leaked, etc.
Did you know that the MK 108s in the had magazines of less then
100rds? So the 100rds is an average. With 4x30mm that would probably
mean that your chance of all guns firing is good, 3 firing, 1 jamming
very likely, but that would still leave a BIG punch (talking Me262
here, Me163 is IMHO one of the biggest mistakes the LW made in WW2,
not to be taken seriously as a combat a/c, as a scientific/test a/c
its wonderfull and very interesting)
With the way you would emply the Me262 you probably won't pull that
many Gs when shooting afterall. The engine is the only real weak link
in the 262 and unless engine failures are modelled in WB it won't ever
accuratly model a Me262.
RH
zeno
Ruy Horta wrote:
>
(snip)
. The engine is the only real weak link
> in the 262 and unless engine failures are modelled in WB it won't ever
> accuratly model a Me262.
>
> RH
Hehe--
I believe that PYRO has found an indirect way to do this. THe Ki-84 had
notoriously weak landing gear due to inferior metallurgy (sp?). It was
prone to failure on landing.
I have had my gear destroyed by hostile fire 4 times in two days flying
the Ki, more than
has happened in other planes in several months put togther. So, rather
than have the gear randomly fail on landing, IMO Pyro has made the gear
much more vulnerable than usual. (Could just be a coincidence but....)
Same could be done with jet engines.
zeno
XXX
adf...@psu.edu
In article <32aa48d...@vaxxine.com>,
> their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
> explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
> pilot if it leaked, etc.
>
> want to change the name from Warbirds to Secret Weapons of the
> Luftwaffe ( and I doubt Lucas Arts will part with the name.).
>
> Bring in the Spit XIV, XVIII and the Tempest V, if only to be
> fair to the long suffering Mk IX drivers in our squad and give the
> Mustang and Dora drivers something to really worry about.
>
Oh yeah! Hawker Tempest Mk V Series II would be a nice addition!
Andy
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Mike Marini
If late model planes continue to be added *before* we have a better
mix of early planes, it might be time for ICI to split the arenas by
time period ie 1939-1942 vintage planes in one arena '43-44 in another
and finally a separate arena for planes mainly available in the latter
year of the war, ie. German jets/rockets, Spit XIV, Bearcats, etc.
The older planes could still be present in the later arenas, but not
the other way around...
Chry
Sean Malloy
vill...@evitech.fi (fats) wrote:
>zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
>>or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
> I can...*lots* of them. I personaly think Jets would be a riot. And
>Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
>other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
Give them the same launch limit as bombers -- only from the 'main'
fields -- and you'll see them used for pretty much the same purpose as
they were in WWII -- last-ditch "when it absolutely, positively, has
to be at 20,000 feet _now_" bomber interception.
And it would be hilarious to be able to record the screaming on the
radio when the people driving it learn about the problems with the
cyclic rate on the 30mm cannon -- it cycled so slowly relative to the
speed of the plane that 163 pilots often straddled the target with
rounds, and were past before they could put in a third round splitting
the difference.
--
Sean R. Malloy | American Non Sequitur
Naval Medical Center | Society
San Diego, CA 92134-5000 |
mal...@cris.com | "We may not make sense,
srma...@snd10.med.navy.mil | but we do like pizza"
*NOTE* Remove the '_' in my email address for replies;
it is there to stop automatic remailers
Hardin Gilbert
Dan & Lori Nowak <no...@vaxxine.com> wrote in article
<32aa48d...@vaxxine.com>...
>
> Sure, bring in the 262 and 163 but bring them in with all of
> their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
> explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
> pilot if it leaked, etc.
>
Probably no chance of that--random mechanical failures are, well
random, thus making them
a little less likely to be coded in. (Just a guess) In any case, then
you'd have to put in all the other
foibles for all the planes...I just doubt it'll be done. :)
> Just kidding, the jets have no place in the game unless you
> want to change the name from Warbirds to Secret Weapons of the
> Luftwaffe ( and I doubt Lucas Arts will part with the name.).
>
> Bring in the Spit XIV, XVIII and the Tempest V, if only to be
> fair to the long suffering Mk IX drivers in our squad and give the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Mustang and Dora drivers something to really worry about.
Oh, please. The MkIX is extremely competitive with the other
planes available in the arena.
For what it's worth, I agree the Dora is probably a bit much for the
arena. Only about what, 650 - 700
of them made in WWII? But, I'm enjoying em while they're here. Let the
MkXIV drivers wait for a "hot" ride
like all the FW drivers did--for about a year and a half.
Hobbes
> Oh, please. The MkIX is extremely competitive with the other
> planes available in the arena.
>
> of them made in WWII? But, I'm enjoying em while they're here. Let the
> MkXIV drivers wait for a "hot" ride
> like all the FW drivers did--for about a year and a half.
YES - !!!!! bring the MkXIV !!!!! - YES
Just doit!
Grave-Digger 8-)
Geof Evans
d...@interaccess.com ( Douglas S. Hillman) writes:
> I will continue to zoom down on them as they're taking off a few times
>first though. Hey, it's a war out there, and if they're foolish enough to
>use poor tactics they deserve what they get. Only after I've hopefully
>shown them the error of their ways will I let them get some parity in the
>fight.
> dobe Doberman <No Squad>
> <VF-17 Hanger-On until I get officially invited>
Back in my days as CFI on OZhost, we had a saying.
"Vultch them mecilessly, they *may* learn something" ;]
Whilst this was a bit of a piss-take....fact is the new guys often
would say "So what are we supposed to do ?" and it never ceased to
amaze me that "Grow a brain" was not given as the default reply in
more occassions than it was ;]
Then, several months later, someone would drag me aside on the radio
and say:
"Will you check these dweebs out, do they never learn ?" whilst adding
seconds later, "Heheh...hey Doc, glad it isn't me down there anymore :)"
There is always gonna be those who think it isn't fair play...fair play
is actually learning to be the guy UP HERE and not DOWN THERE ;]
Doc.
--
___________________________________________________________________
|| Geof Evans !2! Baby! | DOMAIN:rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU ||
|| God is a comedian playing to an audience too frightened to laugh. ||
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tristrim Peter Murnane
Mark Grabski (gra...@intrex.net) wrote:
: CJ Martin wrote:
: >
: >
: > >Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
Hmm, when I'm flying out for f3 or f4 (just after we've taken off
the commies :) ), nd there's a lot of reds over the place. I just take off
from 16(?) of 15, or if 15's under attack, from back at the purp rear
base. I don't understand WHY anybody would want to bother trying to take
off from a base under heavy vulching (but i love doing it f3 ;)).
kat...@cris.com
On Sun, 08 Dec 1996 20:35:01 GMT, mal...@cris.com (Sean Malloy)
wrote:
>And it would be hilarious to be able to record the screaming on the
>radio when the people driving it learn about the problems with the
>cyclic rate on the 30mm cannon -- it cycled so slowly relative to the
>speed of the plane that 163 pilots often straddled the target with
>rounds, and were past before they could put in a third round splitting
>the difference.
The same thing was often true on "jet nights" on AW...a whole bunch of
planes flying around really fast with no ammo left (especially if it
was at all warpy).
--)--Katana-CO---
Ruy Horta
"Hardin Gilbert" <hgil...@iswest.com> wrote:
> For what it's worth, I agree the Dora is probably a bit much for the
>arena. Only about what, 650 - 700
>of them made in WWII? But, I'm enjoying em while they're here. Let the
>MkXIV drivers wait for a "hot" ride
>like all the FW drivers did--for about a year and a half.
Don't say THAT!
Try your numbers again friend:
1500+ D-9s built
4th largest production run Fw fighter after
A-3 2166
A-5 1575
A-8 2000+
You must remember that switching to D-9 production was fairly easy as
it shared most components with the A-8/9. Its another question if many
of these D-9s saw the frontline in the later stages of the war with
fuel shortage etc.
D-9 IS an a/c that is worth modeling in WB, and it saw wide use in the
Luftwaffe. Some requests being made for allied a/c do not share this.
RH
Ruy Horta
mto...@bnr.ca (Michael Toler) wrote:
>Besided, ICI would then get to put in the nigh Infamous damage message:
>"Fuel leak. Pilot melted"
In the 51 it would be
"5hrs of flying....pilot leakin'" :)
Me262 would be nice, Me163 would be next to useless.
RH
Luis Caamano
Dan & Lori Nowak wrote:
>
>
> Do all of the new guys still get defaulted to the Reds when
> they first sign up? I would hate to put someone off of the game by
> vulching the poor sob the first 10 times he tried to take off. This
> game is tough enough on the newer players.
>
It had the opposite effect on me. You see, I was "good at
flight sims (tm)", and I would pretty quickly get bored
with those AI nmes. When I got up the first time in
WB, I got killed in about 10 seconds. Cool! I said, a
new challenge. I went up again, and got vulched right
away while just getting my gear in. I repeated about
6 times and then I said: "This is excellent! Now, let
me read all the info I can and get some training."
That was a Monday, and the next training session was
next Thursday. So, I proceeded to download all the info
I could and read it all before Thursday. When I went
to training, French was the trainer--where is french by
the way? He asked if I had read the FAQ, I said yes.
He asked me if I knew what a split S was, I said yes.
Then he proceeded to show me how to shoot him by
applying lead. He continued giving me more hints, like
how not to get vulched, etc. In my next session in WB,
I died again, but not vulched.
I don't know, it all seemed logical to me.
-=aaCL=-
--
Luis P. Caamano |** luis_c...@hp.com **
Internet and System Security Lab | (404) 648-9508
Hewlett Packard Co. Atlanta, GA, USA | Fax (404) 648-9516
Douglas S. Hillman
Luis Caamano (lpc%issl.at...@hp.com) wrote:
:
: That was a Monday, and the next training session was
: next Thursday. So, I proceeded to download all the info
: I could and read it all before Thursday. When I went
: to training, French was the trainer--where is french by
: the way? He asked if I had read the FAQ, I said yes.
: He asked me if I knew what a split S was, I said yes.
: Then he proceeded to show me how to shoot him by
: applying lead. He continued giving me more hints, like
: how not to get vulched, etc. In my next session in WB,
: I died again, but not vulched.
:
: I don't know, it all seemed logical to me.
EXACTLY what I did too aacl. BEFORE I came online I read ALL the docs
that came with the WB install (so I had an idea on how to use the radio,
operate the B-17, change my ordinance, etc), downloaded ALL the training
lectures printed them and read them several times, went to ALL the web
pages i could find and read all of the helpful hints I found there,
turned OFF easy flight & turned ON blackouts offline and learned how to
get my plane off the ground.
Then my 1st nite online I jumped in the arena for a bit before the
trainers showed up just to get an idea of what went on. Got killed alot,
got a lucky kill, and got the general feel for the place. Then I went
and spent the rest of the night with the trainers.
I think that this intelligent approach to the sim got my very quikly
over the initial learning curve. That and some common sense helps too.
I have NEVER been continnually vulched over & over at a feild, as I have
done to some reds recently. I knew enough to use the outside view from
the tower to check & see if there's several baddies just waiting to kill
me. I knew enough to go sommewhere else if there was. And I knew
enoughh to sneak quikly away if I was taking off from our only base.
dobe Doberman
Mark Grabski
MJes...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Re...@Itg.com.au (Redd) wrote:
> >All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
> >total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
> >advantage when they have it.
> >
>
> main field to find a fight, I'm going to shoot anything that moves.
>
> - Matt
> WB: para
> JG14
I have to wonder about the people who will dive through ack and
other fighters to get the crack at the guy just taking off.
Whats going through their heads.
Mark (Herc)
Trevor Myler
Sean Malloy wrote:
<snip>
>
> And it would be hilarious to be able to record the screaming on the
> radio when the people driving it learn about the problems with the
> cyclic rate on the 30mm cannon -- it cycled so slowly relative to the
> speed of the plane that 163 pilots often straddled the target with
> rounds, and were past before they could put in a third round splitting
> the difference.
I thought the 163 carried 20mm cannons, not 30's? No idea which type of
20mm, but I'm sure Roy can tell us :).
Vortex
Trevor Myler
Mike Marini wrote:
>
> If late model planes continue to be added *before* we have a better
> mix of early planes, it might be time for ICI to split the arenas by
> time period ie 1939-1942 vintage planes in one arena '43-44 in another
> and finally a separate arena for planes mainly available in the latter
> year of the war, ie. German jets/rockets, Spit XIV, Bearcats, etc.
>
> The older planes could still be present in the later arenas, but not
> the other way around...
>
> Chry
I think this is the key to solving ICI's arena load concerns. It's very
difficult to get folks out of the main arena and into other more specific
arena formats. We saw this with AW over the years and see it again
with WB's, there really isn't an easy solution imo. Splitting plane types by
era, though, might be the most viable route to go. This of course is simply
all theory right now until a more diverse early war plane set is developed.
But I do think it would work. I'd luv to take a P39 (pr P40, or F4F,
or...well, you get the idea) up against a Zeke and not have to worry about
getting bounced by some steroid pumped late war rig.
Vortex
Trevor Myler
Ruy Horta wrote:
>
> With the way you would emply the Me262 you probably won't pull that
> many Gs when shooting afterall. The engine is the only real weak link
> in the 262 and unless engine failures are modelled in WB it won't ever
> accuratly model a Me262.
>
> RH
This would require a "randomizer" of sorts, and with HT's strong dislike
of such things (from what I'm told anywhoo) I doubt we'll ever see such
features. Heck, we likely won't ever see structural failures modelled
for the same reasons, or at least that's what I was told online by one
of the ICI lads not long ago. Personally, I don't see how randomizing
works into structural weaknesses, but obviously they do.
Vortex
George Fisher
In article <58ghaj$shr$1...@aggedor.rmit.edu.au>, rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU (Geof Evans) wrote:
:]There is always gonna be those who think it isn't fair play...fair play
:]is actually learning to be the guy UP HERE and not DOWN THERE ;]
:]
:]Doc.
As I've said before on occasion, sometimes in the arena....
"war is hell", chivalry may have played a small part in real
WWII combat where they may have let a pilot go after he's
been to shot up to the point where he's no threat to anyone,
but first you shoot him up. I'm sure they didn't circle a
field waiting for the enemy to get alt, I sure wouldn't
have! :)
George
__!__
_____(_)_____
] [
WarBirds: NiteRade (-nr-)
XO VMA696 "DiamondBacks"
George Fisher
In article <01bbe5a1$c805f6b0$126b86c1@zhpc16496>, "Hobbes" <gl...@datacomm.ch> wrote:
:]YES - !!!!! bring the MkXIV !!!!! - YES
:]
:]
:] Just doit!
sure do it... but I hope that model carries more bullets
than the rest, I still fly around "spraying" my enemas...
damn, guess I need more practice shootin' that stupid drone!
George Fisher
In article <58h337$f...@news.xs4all.nl>, rho...@xs4all.nl wrote:
:]
:]In the 51 it would be
:]"5hrs of flying....pilot leakin'" :)
:]
I wish ICI would model a dump hose or something.... I hate
leaving the plane to go for a leak and come back to find I
bin shot down!
Lewis Moose Gregory
Mark Grabski <gra...@intrex.net> wrote:
>I have to wonder about the people who will dive through ack and
>other fighters to get the crack at the guy just taking off.
>Whats going through their heads.
Their ass, when the ack weenies blow their plane apart. :)
Check six,
Lewis "Moose" Gregory
lgre...@concentric.net
7646...@compuserve.com +------------------------------------------
http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory | WarBirds ID: "moos", for the Greens
-------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
CO 94th Composite Group - "The Flying Squirrels" - WATCH YER NUTS!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Moose's Den -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION -- http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory
George Fisher
In article <58ghuq$hs1$1...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>, tmur...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au (Tristrim Peter Murnane ) wrote:
:]I don't understand WHY anybody would want to bother trying to take
:]off from a base under heavy vulching (but i love doing it f3 ;)).
Actually, I kinda find it a challenge sometimes. Gotta go up
in a Zeke or KI tho to get any chance at turn&burn, the
other advantage is if/when ya get kilt, you don't havta fly
far to get back in the action. :)
'Course for those that are worried about their score and
wanna land all their ac, then I guess that's not the plan
for them :)
MJes...@aol.com
<Snicker> Now that's what one of my frustrated squadmates said
about your beloved 109 last night ;)
John Krempasky
gfi...@uniserve.com (George Fisher) wrote:
>As I've said before on occasion, sometimes in the arena....
>"war is hell", chivalry may have played a small part in real
>WWII combat where they may have let a pilot go after he's
>been to shot up to the point where he's no threat to anyone,
>but first you shoot him up.
To my mind chivalry had next to NOTHING to do with WWII air combat;
this is why I'm so suspicious of the fact that EVERY story or release
about Confirmed Kill prominently features a sentence or two where they
proudly state that the they are going to eliminate naughty
"dive-and-run" attacks or vulching or some such nonsense and make sure
everything is "fair."
There isn't a pilot in World War II (well, none that survived many
missions) that wanted a fair fight. ALL of the top aces of the war
were top aces and lived because they spent every moment in the air
desperately striving for an UNFAIR fight. Far more Axis planes were
destroyed by what we'd call "vulching" than by nice even aerial
dogfights.
I vulch as often as I can, and I when I get vulched I accept it.
Tristrim Peter Murnane
: > >It's time for the Spit XIV!
: >
: >
: > I was waiting for you Zeno to ask for the XIV.:) At the time that
: > thread was goin on in here, I was chucklin and waitin for someone to
Me, I just want the P-40 Warhawk. Sure it will got shot to pieces
by anything in flight (expt mabye the zero by a good pilot), but just for
use in a HA (IF I ever get around to USING the HA) ;)
Tristrim Peter Murnane
Lewis "Moose" Gregory (lgre...@concentric.net) wrote:
: Mark Grabski <gra...@intrex.net> wrote:
:
: >I have to wonder about the people who will dive through ack and
: >other fighters to get the crack at the guy just taking off.
: >Whats going through their heads.
:
: Their ass, when the ack weenies blow their plane apart. :)
HA! I only tend to vultch after I've dropped my 1000 bd's on the
ack :)
Scott Thomson
Tristrim Peter Murnane (tmur...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au) wrote:
<snip>
:
: Me, I just want the P-40 Warhawk. Sure it will got shot to pieces
: by anything in flight (expt mabye the zero by a good pilot), but just for
: use in a HA (IF I ever get around to USING the HA) ;)
I think a P-40N would make a decent arena plane actually, it's fairly fast
a low altitudes, and it supposedly turns resonably well, and it very
rugged by all accounts. Many P-40N pilots *swore* that it was a better
plane below 10K then a P-51 or P-47. They were still flying them until
the end of the war in CBI.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Scott McKay Thomson - OAO International - Second Shift VAX Operations |
| WarBirds: SMT1 <501 FF CO> squadron leadership, planning and training |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rickenbacker
In article <32ACA0...@intrex.net>, gra...@intrex.net says...
>I have to wonder about the people who will dive through ack and
>other fighters to get the crack at the guy just taking off.
>Whats going through their heads.
>
Yeah, I always wait until he's out of the ack umbrella, that way he's easier to
kill (he'll be climbing, usually) and cant complain about "vulching" (Well, he
can, but oh well).
--
<Person in mirror is more close-minded than he/she appears>
Mats Erik Axel Anders Nylund
Rickenbacker (-ri- ~RK^)
Email: op...@mbox300.swipnet.se*
Homepage: http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-11503/index.htm
Rickenbacker
In article <32AB66...@concentric.net>, zen...@concentric.net says...
>I believe that PYRO has found an indirect way to do this. THe Ki-84 had
>notoriously weak landing gear due to inferior metallurgy (sp?). It was
>prone to failure on landing.
>
>I have had my gear destroyed by hostile fire 4 times in two days flying
>the Ki, more than
>has happened in other planes in several months put togther. So, rather
>than have the gear randomly fail on landing, IMO Pyro has made the gear
>much more vulnerable than usual. (Could just be a coincidence but....)
>Same could be done with jet engines.
Considering the Ki's general, eh, "sturdiness", I'm surprised you lived long
enough to see what part was hit before you blew up :).
Rickenbacker
In article <58icna$d...@atlas.uniserve.com>, gfi...@uniserve.com says...
>As I've said before on occasion, sometimes in the arena....
>"war is hell", chivalry may have played a small part in real
>WWII combat where they may have let a pilot go after he's
>been to shot up to the point where he's no threat to anyone,
>field waiting for the enemy to get alt, I sure wouldn't
>have! :)
who's trailing black smoke (or who asks me in a funny way, or gave me a really
good fight) attempt a ditch unmolested, though. I've even protected a Gold P51
from some greens as he tried to ditch after I shot his engine :).
I'm only in it for the fun.
Rickenbacker
In article <8500869...@dejanews.com>, adf...@psu.edu says...
>Oh yeah! Hawker Tempest Mk V Series II would be a nice addition!
> Andy
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Tempest, Spit XIV, hell, why not get an F-16 while we're at it. :)
Luis Caamano
Douglas S. Hillman wrote:
>
> I have NEVER been continnually vulched over & over at a feild, as I have
> done to some reds recently. I knew enough to use the outside view from
> the tower to check & see if there's several baddies just waiting to kill
> me. I knew enough to go sommewhere else if there was. And I knew
> enoughh to sneak quikly away if I was taking off from our only base.
>
> dobe Doberman
One thing I did when I thought I got the hang of it, was
to test if it's possible to get out of a vulched field.
That particular day, like a week before Solomons, the
field had like 4 gold vultures flying over. I took my
zeke (I was in the IJA) and tried to see if I could
get out without being vulched. Hehe, I would go up
dodge the first vulch, dogde the second, and then get
nailed by the third one or fourth one. Total running
time for a sortie: 45 seconds. After the 7th try,
I got one kill, but then got killed again. It was
fun to try to fight the vulchers. Then I moved to
another field and resumed normal flying.
Every now and then I do that again. I think is
challenging and fun to set yourself for vultures
and to force them to black out and smack them
when they're out, or to get manuver kills when
they crash behind ya. Just another part of
the game that we can enjoy in a simulator since
you don't really die. :)
People care too much about killing and not about
flying. I don't care if I outmaneuver this
guy on my six and some other lucky guy comes
and kills me. I did good, I outmaneuvered
the guy on my six. Unless they were wingmen,
in that case, I should've recognized that
an tried to outmaneuver the flite.
Tone <DoD>
Tristrim Peter Murnane <tmur...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au> wrote in article
<58iq0q$qrb$2...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>...
> zeno (zen...@concentric.net) wrote:
> : fats wrote:
> : >
> : > zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
> : >
> : > >It's time for the Spit XIV!
> : >
> : >
> : > I was waiting for you Zeno to ask for the XIV.:) At the time
that
> : > thread was goin on in here, I was chucklin and waitin for someone to
>
> Me, I just want the P-40 Warhawk. Sure it will got shot to pieces
> by anything in flight (expt mabye the zero by a good pilot), but just for
> use in a HA (IF I ever get around to USING the HA) ;)
>
GOOD MAN!
Yes, I'd like to see more HA's with specific match-ups.
What can compare to flying the early US planes in those dark days?
I read "Doomed from the Start", and now I want P-40B, P-40D, and P-36A's,
as well as Oscars (? or whatever the shoddy open-cockpit IJA fighter was).
tone
Chris McGeary
Tone <DoD> wrote:
<snip>
> Yes, I'd like to see more HA's with specific match-ups.
> What can compare to flying the early US planes in those dark days?
> I read "Doomed from the Start", and now I want P-40B, P-40D, and P-36A's,
> as well as Oscars (? or whatever the shoddy open-cockpit IJA fighter was).
>
> tone
Are you thinking of the Ki27 Nate? 2 MGs, no speed, no armor.
ccm
zeno
Tone wrote:
>
> Tristrim Peter Murnane <tmur...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au> wrote in article
> <58iq0q$qrb$2...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>...
> > zeno (zen...@concentric.net) wrote:
> > : fats wrote:
> > : >
> > : > zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
> > : >
> > : > >It's time for the Spit XIV!
> > : >
> > : >
> > : > I was waiting for you Zeno to ask for the XIV.:) At the time
> that
> > : > thread was goin on in here, I was chucklin and waitin for someone to
> >
> > Me, I just want the P-40 Warhawk. Sure it will got shot to pieces
> > by anything in flight (expt mabye the zero by a good pilot), but just for
> > use in a HA (IF I ever get around to USING the HA) ;)
> >
>
> GOOD MAN!
>
> What can compare to flying the early US planes in those dark days?
> I read "Doomed from the Start", and now I want P-40B, P-40D, and P-36A's,
> as well as Oscars (? or whatever the shoddy open-cockpit IJA fighter was).
>
> tone
Hell. if we're goin retro, lets go all the way: Galdiators, Falcones &
F3FS!
zeno
adf...@psu.edu
In article <58jt67$q...@mn5.swip.net>,
Don't be such a whiner, Rickenbacker, you're a better person than that :)
Just kidding! Anyhow, the point I was trying to make is this:
Luftwaffe flyers have 6 different fighter aircraft to choose from.
American
flyers
also have a bunch of fighter aircraft to choose from. Japanese flyers
have just
3
fighters as options, while British flyers only have 2 fighter options.
As far as
I'm
concerned, ICI can, for the time being, stop modelling new German and US
designs and concentrate on the planes of other nations! Unfortunately,
the
only
other aircraft I am even mildly knowledgeable of are those of Britain,
which is why
I support the modelling of the Spitfire Mk XIV and the Tempest Mk V.
From
my
POV, these aircraft are definitely arena-viable, and it would let British
flyers
get
their hands on their own "superplanes" for a change. And I wouldn't mind
seeing
some new Japanese and maybe Italian (YES, they had some decent designs
out
right before they were taken out of the war) designs, too.
And let's remember that it's generally the pilot, and NOT the
plane,
that
makes the difference.
Andy Fuller
P.S. I wouldn't mind seeing the F4U-4 either, ICI ; )
Trevor Myler
John Krempasky wrote:
<snip>
> There isn't a pilot in World War II (well, none that survived many
> missions) that wanted a fair fight. ALL of the top aces of the war
> were top aces and lived because they spent every moment in the air
> desperately striving for an UNFAIR fight. Far more Axis planes were
> destroyed by what we'd call "vulching" than by nice even aerial
> dogfights.
Yah, when your butt's on the line, "fairness" shouldn't enter the
thought process much. But when it's a game (WB's et al) there's nothing
to loose, so chivalry has a role if the user chooses. If he doesn't,
well, that's his choice too.
Vortex
Lewis Moose Gregory
"Tone <DoD>" <to...@wildfire.com> wrote:
You're thinking either the Ki-27 "Nate", the immediate predecessor to
the Ki-43 "Oscar", or the navy's A5M1 "Claude", the immediate predecessor
to the Zero. The Claude was a fixed-gear fighter with a pair of popguns
that went up against I-15s and I-16 Ratas in China in 1939-40 with mixed
results (read "Samurai!" for Sakai's experiences in a Claude, including
his first dogfight).
Hardin Gilbert
Ruy Horta <rho...@xs4all.nl> wrote in article
<58h303$f...@news.xs4all.nl>...
> A-3 2166
> A-5 1575
> A-8 2000+
>
> You must remember that switching to D-9 production was fairly easy as
> it shared most components with the A-8/9. Its another question if many
> of these D-9s saw the frontline in the later stages of the war with
> fuel shortage etc.
>
> D-9 IS an a/c that is worth modeling in WB, and it saw wide use in the
> Luftwaffe. Some requests being made for allied a/c do not share this.
I'll take your numbers on faith--the source I got that number from wasn't
what I'd consider impeccable
and I may have misinterpreted them in any case. Don't bite me head off.
;)
My main beef with Dora in the no icon arena is that I find it virtually
invisible against the terrain
background. And with it's incredible speed and acceleration, that makes it
almost impossible to
defend against. Which also made me relent on the "no icons in the HA"
stance. With the limited
palette in WB, poor blue-green colorblind folks like me are likely to call
it quits....well at least I am. :)
Ruy Horta
"Tone <DoD>" <to...@wildfire.com> wrote:
>Yes, I'd like to see more HA's with specific match-ups.
>What can compare to flying the early US planes in those dark days?
>I read "Doomed from the Start", and now I want P-40B, P-40D, and P-36A's,
>as well as Oscars (? or whatever the shoddy open-cockpit IJA fighter was).
Nakajima Ki27 "Nate" or the IJNAF Mitsubishi A5M "Claude"
RH
Douglas S. Hillman
adf...@psu.edu wrote:
: and maybe Italian (YES, they had some decent designs
: out right before they were taken out of the war) designs, too.
You bet they did. I don't have my refernce material here but I believ
it was the F-55 by Fiat that would fit nicely into the arena. I'll dig up
my data and post more on this later.
dobe Doberman VF-17 (US)
Mark Grabski
Tristrim Peter Murnane wrote:
>
> zeno (zen...@concentric.net) wrote:
> : fats wrote:
> : >
> : > zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
> : >
> : > >It's time for the Spit XIV!
> : >
> : >
> : > I was waiting for you Zeno to ask for the XIV.:) At the time that
> : > thread was goin on in here, I was chucklin and waitin for someone to
>
> Me, I just want the P-40 Warhawk. Sure it will got shot to pieces
> by anything in flight (expt mabye the zero by a good pilot), but just for
> use in a HA (IF I ever get around to USING the HA) ;)
I remember when AWI opened up Me262s for awhile. I found that I
had to keep speed up to fight with the other jets. In doing so,
I coudn't get any kills on pistons. I did get a few jet kills
though. It would be embarassing to get shot down by a mustang
so I kept it fast. They may be able to add 262's without too
many problems.
Mark (Herc)
Steve Sarlls
gfi...@uniserve.com (George Fisher) wrote:
>In article <58ghuq$hs1$1...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>, tmur...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au (Tristrim Peter Murnane ) wrote:
>:]I don't understand WHY anybody would want to bother trying to take
>:]off from a base under heavy vulching (but i love doing it f3 ;)).
>Actually, I kinda find it a challenge sometimes. Gotta go up
>in a Zeke or KI tho to get any chance at turn&burn, the
>other advantage is if/when ya get kilt, you don't havta fly
>far to get back in the action. :)
>'Course for those that are worried about their score and
>wanna land all their ac, then I guess that's not the plan
>for them :)
I used to do this till I learned better. Zeke and Ki are too fragile I
think. Spitfire or F4-U. Both offer more armor and if you can get a Hog
airborne and stay alive you're not flyin' an egg.
Steve
+-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| All the worlds a stage, | ("'-''-/").___..--''"'-._ |
| and there's a comedy playing. | '6_ 6 ) '_. ( ).'-.__.') |
| May as well enjoy the show. | (_Y_.) ._ ) '._ '. ''-..-' |
| ste...@io.com | _..'--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' |
| Steve Sarlls ste...@cris.com | (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' |
+-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Go Dale Earnhardt #3 | Go Rusty Wallace #2 |
+-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Split_S on IRC Steve_Sarlls on Hawaii unfg on Warbirds |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fryster
jo...@dmv.com (John Krempasky) wrote:
>gfi...@uniserve.com (George Fisher) wrote:
>>As I've said before on occasion, sometimes in the arena....
>>"war is hell", chivalry may have played a small part in real
>>WWII combat where they may have let a pilot go after he's
>>been to shot up to the point where he's no threat to anyone,
>>but first you shoot him up.
> To my mind chivalry had next to NOTHING to do with WWII air combat;
>this is why I'm so suspicious of the fact that EVERY story or release
>about Confirmed Kill prominently features a sentence or two where they
>proudly state that the they are going to eliminate naughty
>"dive-and-run" attacks or vulching or some such nonsense and make sure
>everything is "fair."
> There isn't a pilot in World War II (well, none that survived many
>missions) that wanted a fair fight. ALL of the top aces of the war
>were top aces and lived because they spent every moment in the air
>desperately striving for an UNFAIR fight. Far more Axis planes were
>destroyed by what we'd call "vulching" than by nice even aerial
>dogfights.
> I vulch as often as I can, and I when I get vulched I accept it.
After following the info on CK for months and months, I've NEVER heard once
about them having a "no vulching" feature. B'n'Z and/or vulchhing are
pilot tactics; how would a sim guard against that??
FRYSTER
fry...@concentric.net
adf...@psu.edu
In article <58mofm$d...@nntp.interaccess.com>,
Yeah, it's amazing how many WW2 aviation enthusiast give me strange
looks
when I mention Italian fighters. Towards the end of their involvement in
WW2
the Italians had created 3-4 good fighter designs (possibly based on
German
engines?) but they had only been produced in VERY small numbers.
I also forgot too mention Russian fighters in my previous post.
Again, I
get
strange looks when I mention them. Unfortunately, I know little about
both
Italian and Russian WW2 aircraft, so if someone has any suggestions as to
what
fighters from these countries would make good arena planes, PLEASE
post'em!
dobe, I take it that you're in the Jolly Rogers WB squadron. Tell
Spinny that
I'm
doing my best to locate F4U-4 flight test data, and I hope that the JR's
get
their
F4U-4 soon.
As for me, I'm waiting for the Tempest Mk. V Series 2!
Andy Fuller
Douglas S. Hillman
Fryster (fry...@concentric.net) wrote:
:
: > I vulch as often as I can, and I when I get vulched I accept it.
: After following the info on CK for months and months, I've NEVER heard once
: about them having a "no vulching" feature. B'n'Z and/or vulchhing are
: pilot tactics; how would a sim guard against that??
I've heard it. Don't remember where, but I have. BTW, BnZ & vulching
are FAR from the same thing.
To answer your question: Start in the air. If that's the option I'll
probably never even play the thing once.
dobe Doberman VF-17 (US)
B Only J Only
In article <58ngiq$l...@nntp.interaccess.com>, d...@interaccess.com says...
>
>Fryster (fry...@concentric.net) wrote:
>:
>: > I vulch as often as I can, and I when I get vulched I accept it.
>:
>: After following the info on CK for months and months, I've NEVER heard once
>: about them having a "no vulching" feature. B'n'Z and/or vulchhing are
>: pilot tactics; how would a sim guard against that??
>
> I've heard it. Don't remember where, but I have. BTW, BnZ & vulching
>are FAR from the same thing.
>
I wouldn't classify BnZ and vulching as being far from the same thing.........I
WOULD SAY THEY ARE KISSING COUSINS!
B Only J Only
> I've heard it. Don't remember where, but I have. BTW, BnZ & vulching
>are FAR from the same thing.
>
>
> dobe Doberman VF-17 (US)
>
The easiest way to tell them apart, is the vulvher complains the
LOUDEST about ack huggers.
Geoff Evans
Don't allow yourself to think for ONE SECOND we have the current mix
of aircraft (and in the order we got them) because ICI wanted it this
way...the German Iron was expanded when it was because it was easier
to do in that time frame. ICI are working on many different aircraft
...including the British birds, some Russian ones, bombers from the
German, Japanese, British (maybe the Russian Pe-2 ? Certainly the Il-2)
...however, they don't all represent the same difficulty in completion
and new aircraft arrive when they CAN GET THEM OUT.
It isn't a "preferance" for one or the other, that sees them arrive
in any sort of chronological order. Their only real preferance would
be to have them all out right now ;]
What I'm saying is, it isn't a matter of "hold off on these planes"
while you get "these other more needed planes" out the door.
All the future planes we'll have are needed, right now, and they will
arrive in the order that "ease of modelling" them dictates...there is
no timetable based on preference.
When you model varients (such as in the Bf109/Fw190 vein) you have a
bundle of the work already done. Totally different planes take longer.
ICI have said this before in this thread, in the past, and as stated
at that earlier time, give us all the planes, as soon as you possibly
can ;] The order, might be able to be "held back" for a timetable...
but not "sped up"...so I reckon take what they can churn out whenever
they can churn it out.
With patience, you will see the Typhoons, Tempests, P40s, Laggs, Ju88s
...Mosquitos, Hurricanes, Bf110s, Stukas, Yaks and whatever in the game
...but I don't think you'll be seeing them in the order or timeframe you'd
prefer ;]
Just have to wait my friend ! We're ALL waiting with you ;]
Doc.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Geof Rey Evans "The Doctor of Doom" an alternate email account due to stuff.|
| rxx...@otto.bs.rmit.edu.au Pay no attention if you cant afford the entry fee|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rickenbacker
In article <8502813...@dejanews.com>, adf...@psu.edu says...
>I support the modelling of the Spitfire Mk XIV and the Tempest Mk V.
>From
Personally I'd like to see some more early war designs, and some HA matchups
with these not-so-super planes. How about the Spit Mk I, 109E, Hurricane,
Typhoon, Stuka, any russian plane whatsoever :), He-111, any english bomber,
the Brewster Buffalo (for the Finns), the Polikarpov I-16 (for me and Toad :).
Douglas S. Hillman
B "Only" J "Only (dl...@gte.net) wrote:
: I wouldn't classify BnZ and vulching as being far from the same thing....
: .....I WOULD SAY THEY ARE KISSING COUSINS!
Nope. You can sit & vulch someone alll day long using stallfighting
tactics. BnZ is just a mode of fighting. True it's probably alot more
effective for vulching than turnfighting is, but that doesn't really mean
that vulching = BnZ.
dobe Doberman VF-17 (US) 1 kill away from being a Fortress Germany Ace.
zeno
Rickenbacker wrote:
>
> Well, OK, point taken, but the _tempest_? Did it ever see combat service?
Yeah, at least a year. Typhoon saw more action, but of course, they got
the design right with the Tempest V.
zeno
zeno
Geoff Evans wrote:
>
> Don't allow yourself to think for ONE SECOND we have the current mix
> of aircraft (and in the order we got them) because ICI wanted it this
> way...
(snip)
> Doc.
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Geof Rey Evans "The Doctor of Doom" an alternate email account due to stuff.|
> | rxx...@otto.bs.rmit.edu.au Pay no attention if you cant afford the entry fee|
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well thought out post Doc. I'm sure everyone would agree with what you
said. So why did you post it? <g>
zeno
XXX
adf...@psu.edu
In article <58ohqh$sff$1...@aggedor.rmit.edu.au>,
rxx...@bf.rmit.edu.au (Geoff Evans) wrote:
>
>
> Don't allow yourself to think for ONE SECOND we have the current mix
> of aircraft (and in the order we got them) because ICI wanted it this
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Geof Rey Evans "The Doctor of Doom" an alternate email account due to stuff.|
> | rxx...@otto.bs.rmit.edu.au Pay no attention if you cant afford the entry fee|
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you're right, I really oughtta have some patience. After all,
ICI's ability
to
model planes is limited by the availablity of technical info, the number
of
people
working for ICI, and the fact that the guys at ICI are _only_ human.
And, for
the
most part, ICI has never disappointed me in the past.
Version 1.10 just came out, giving us a few new variants and aircraft,
and I'm
happy with it. I was just stating what I would _like_ to see ICI model
next. But
I
know that all the wishes I may have don't mean squat (and they shouldn't)
to
ICI.
They churn out aircraft when they think they're finished, and they should
be
congratulated for the wonderful work they've done so far. As for now,
I'll
just
have to have patience and quietly hope they'll model some of my fav's.
Thanks
for bringing me out of my semi-whiny/semi-demanding stupor, Doc. I owe
you.
adf...@psu.edu
In article <58p1u2$1...@mn5.swip.net>,
Commercia...@Die.like.pigs (Rickenbacker) wrote:
>
> In article <8502813...@dejanews.com>, adf...@psu.edu says...
> >I support the modelling of the Spitfire Mk XIV and the Tempest Mk V.
> >From
> with these not-so-super planes. How about the Spit Mk I, 109E, Hurricane,
> Typhoon, Stuka, any russian plane whatsoever :), He-111, any english bomber,
> the Brewster Buffalo (for the Finns), the Polikarpov I-16 (for me and Toad :).
>
> --
> <Person in mirror is more close-minded than he/she appears>
> Mats Erik Axel Anders Nylund
> Rickenbacker (-ri- ~RK^)
> Email: op...@mbox300.swipnet.se*
> Homepage: http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-11503/index.htm
Umm, it most certainly did see service with the RAF. As a matter of
fact, Pierre Clostermann (sp?) flew it for awhile...until he was killed.
The Tempest Mk.
V
Series one started to enter service sometime in April of '44, the Series
2 saw
service
a little while after that. Only several hundred were produced before the
war ended,
though.
Both versions of the plane saw action in WW2. It was damn fast at
low-medium
altitudes,
great for intercepting V-1's and fast, low-alt Jabo raids. They shot
down a
few
Me-262's and several hundred V-1's while in service.
4 20mm cannons and the ability to carry the more accurate British rockets
(guide rails) made
them
decent fighter-bombers, too. Great against tanks and trains.
I wouldn't mind seeing the early war designs either. Of course,
they'd probably
be
limited to the HA. For the time being, I'm just going to use v1.10 (if I
can get my FS Pro to
work)
and enjoy it. I'm just going to get myself some patience and quietly
hope the ICI models some
of
my fav's. I realize that the guys at ICI are doing their best, and they
haven't really disappointed
me
so far.
BTW, sorry my posts come out all f@#*ed up, it's friggin' Deja News!
ANDY FULLER
John Killer Macqueen
Yep and all the while doing everything he can to make sure they don't
get a chance to get out of the acks. <g>
John MacQueen
kil...@www.icigames.com
VP Operations Interactive Creations Inc.
Geof Evans
ICI have already released their intention (some time ago) to model:
La-5n (bloody fine russian fighter with 3 x 20mm Shvak cannons)
Yak-3 (another fine aircraft, slightly superior to the Yak-9)
While this is only 2 russian fighters, it's at least a start. The rather
famous Sturmavik Il-2 "flying tank" ground attack plane is also on the
"to be modelled" list. You virtually cannot knock this bird down except
with very well placed (into the oil cooler or starter cartridge) cannon
rounds...20mm rounds were known to BOUNCE OFF this plane when striking
any of the armoured surfaces. In case you wonder how this was possible
...the fuselage was basically an armoured "tub" encasing engine, cockpit
and all vital systems, and the wing roots were armoured sorta like an
"extension" of the fuselage tub. Heavy heavy heavy old bird, not very
fast or manuoevrable...rear gunner (sometimes with TWO guns) for some
basic defense which worked rather well given that inexperienced pilots
were known to rent a room on the 6 of a Sturmavik just trying to get
their hits to DO SOMETHING ;]
I don't expect data to be all that available for the fine Italian jobs
such as the C.202 and C.205...they weren't produced in large numbers
and have you ever encountered Italian Beuaucracy ? Has to be the worst
on planet earth ;]
Getting back to the Russian planes, the Pe-2 fast twin engined bomber
(and even heavy figher) would also be a nice addition...data again is
the big thing to nix these efforts, as always.
Somehow, the "Big Book of WWII Airplanes" just doesn't do the job ;]
Doc.
<still, already it looks like WB will boast a big swag of WWII types>
*** it's up to 18 aircraft so far, will be easy 20+ before long ! ***
--
___________________________________________________________________
|| Geof Evans !2! Baby! | DOMAIN:rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU ||
|| God is a comedian playing to an audience too frightened to laugh. ||
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Geof Evans
d...@interaccess.com ( Douglas S. Hillman) writes:
>adf...@psu.edu wrote:
>: and maybe Italian (YES, they had some decent designs
>: out right before they were taken out of the war) designs, too.
> You bet they did. I don't have my refernce material here but I believ
>it was the F-55 by Fiat that would fit nicely into the arena. I'll dig up
>my data and post more on this later.
> dobe Doberman VF-17 (US)
Folgore C.202
Veltro C.205V
Orione C.205N
Superb handling machines, with a variety of 12.7mm and 20mm guns...
unfortunatly not seen in great numbers at any time. Well thought of
as fighters though.
More detail can be supplied if requested.
Doc.
Geoff Evans
I messed up just before. Warbirds now offers us 22 aircraft to get our
jollies in. So I was right, it'll be 20+ in no time ;]
Not bad at all for a game that was in beta just over a year ago...
with a starting point of SEVEN aircraft. Take into account the
accuracy and feel of the different types, outstanding effort.
Take the day off ICI, go and do something special for yourselves ;]
For the sceptics, a list. Yes, some are varients of the same type...
but all are uniquely different and can be employed as such:
P51-D F4U-1 F6F-3 P38-J P38-L P38-F SpitIX SpitV Ki-84 SBD-5 P39-D
Bf109F-4 Bf109G-6 Bf109K-4 Fw190A-4 Fw190A-8 Fw190D-9 B17-G B25-J
B25-H Zero-A6M3 Zero-A6M5(52)
And yes...I want some new planes as soon as the next guy ;]
But I can wait. I'm gonna have to, now aren't I ?
Doc.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Geof Rey Evans "The Doctor of Doom" an alternate email account due to stuff.|
| rxx...@otto.bs.rmit.edu.au Pay no attention if you cant afford the entry fee|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Beach
BTW, the Tempest V was in service almost exactly the same length of
time as the P38L. Maybe a bit longer. My two cents worth ;-)
Rick,
badg
Jim Knutson
In article <58ai09$o...@idefix.eunet.fi>, fats <vill...@evitech.fi> wrote:
>Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
Now a 163 would make an excellent field defense item against the
superior american buffs. Very limited powered flight time, extermely
fast climb, vulnerable unpowered glide home, dangerously difficult to
land. What fun!
RB
Pekka Koski
rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU (Geof Evans) wrote:
>and have you ever encountered Italian Beuaucracy ? Has to be the worst
>on planet earth ;]
Gotta straighten you on this issue :)
Russian bureaucracy is the worst possible, Swedish such is a good
number two, and ours (Finnish) gotta be fighting for the #2 ranking
with swedes.
No way that lazy southern europeans could have managed to put up
a worse system. Local kind of bureaucracy takes a LOT of effort to build
up. Well, the Italians have had a several centuries lead but I deeply
doubt their ability to put up anything this satanic system as we and the
Swedes have here.
Russkies are the winners in this competition, hands down.
BTW Hiya Doc!
----
PCMCIA = People Cannot Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms
SCSI = System Cannot See It
----
Pekka...@oulu.fi
ICBM address 65.02N 25.27E
WB TNeck -=ICE=- id: neck
Geoff Evans
ko...@rieska.oulu.fi (Pekka Koski) writes:
>>and have you ever encountered Italian Beuaucracy ? Has to be the worst
>>on planet earth ;]
> Gotta straighten you on this issue :)
*SNIP*
> BTW Hiya Doc!
>Pekka...@oulu.fi
>ICBM address 65.02N 25.27E
>WB TNeck -=ICE=- id: neck
Yeah...g'day there ;]
I was just speaking on my own experience, something about a connecting
train to Venice from Turin, 8 hours of "you gotta go-a to thata window
down-a there" and "thassa up the other end-a" and so on and so on...
all experienced on my 3 month "nothing booked but plane tickets" tour
of Europe and the USA. Was a blast...specially after we got to the US of A
and bought ourselves a van. At least the Americans cater to car travel
rather well ;]
Geoff Evans
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> writes:
>Well thought out post Doc. I'm sure everyone would agree with what you
>said. So why did you post it? <g>
>zeno
>XXX
To sell more books ?
zeno
Pekka Koski wrote:
>
> rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU (Geof Evans) wrote:
>
> >and have you ever encountered Italian Beuaucracy ? Has to be the worst
> >on planet earth ;]
>
> Gotta straighten you on this issue :)
>
> number two, and ours (Finnish) gotta be fighting for the #2 ranking
> with swedes.
> No way that lazy southern europeans could have managed to put up
> a worse system. Local kind of bureaucracy takes a LOT of effort to build
> up. Well, the Italians have had a several centuries lead but I deeply
> doubt their ability to put up anything this satanic system as we and the
> Swedes have here.
> Russkies are the winners in this competition, hands down.
>
> BTW Hiya Doc!
>
> ----
>
> PCMCIA = People Cannot Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms
> SCSI = System Cannot See It
>
> ----
>
NAW -- here in the States we have what's called "the DMV" in most
states. The Department of Motor Vehicals -- where we get our Drivering
Liscences. You haven't lived (or died) until you have dealt with them
<g>
zeno
XXX
ROrdway604
>>With patience, you will see the Typhoons, Tempests, P40s, Laggs, Ju88s
...Mosquitos, Hurricanes, Bf110s, Stukas, Yaks and whatever in the game
...but I don't think you'll be seeing them in the order or timeframe you'd
prefer ;]
Just have to wait my friend ! We're ALL waiting with you ;]<<
Yes, ICI is doing something unprecedented in the whole <recorded)<G>
history of the human race. They are the first to make new PC models of
previously unmodeled WW2 aircraft using declassified military data that
PC flight simmers have never flown before at unprecedented levels of
accuracy. This is new ground and untrodded...bravo!
-Richard
Phil Massimi
> NAW -- here in the States we have what's called "the DMV" in most
> states. The Department of Motor Vehicals -- where we get our Drivering
> Liscences. You haven't lived (or died) until you have dealt with them
> <g>
>
Oh come on! I've owned well over a dozen different vehicles in my life,
and never had a single problem w/ the BMV... I show up once a year on my
birthday, pay'em $100-$150, and stick a couple stickers on my car...
simple as that.
Now, you wanna know about American beauracracy (sp?), try goin to COURT
for somethin! Been there a couple times fer traffic related things...
last time I went, I sat there ALL DAY LONG. After sitting there all
day,
they FINALLY called my name, I walked up, repeated my name, some cop
read
some stuff off the ticket, and w/in like 5 min I was done.
Court is truly Satan's bedroom.
--
Phil Massimi ---------------------------------------
aka "Mad Mass" --- "WAIT!!! Remember... no matter ---
Scout, U.S.Cavalry --- where you go, there you are." ---
1/33 Armor Battalion ---------------------------------------
Pig Killer (Mad Max BTD)
mailto:mad...@midohio.net
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~massimi
Sean Malloy
jo...@dmv.com (John Krempasky) wrote:
>gfi...@uniserve.com (George Fisher) wrote:
>>As I've said before on occasion, sometimes in the arena....
>>"war is hell", chivalry may have played a small part in real
>>WWII combat where they may have let a pilot go after he's
>>been to shot up to the point where he's no threat to anyone,
>>but first you shoot him up.
>
> To my mind chivalry had next to NOTHING to do with WWII air combat;
>
>missions) that wanted a fair fight. ALL of the top aces of the war
>were top aces and lived because they spent every moment in the air
>desperately striving for an UNFAIR fight. Far more Axis planes were
>destroyed by what we'd call "vulching" than by nice even aerial
>dogfights.
WWII _started_ with most of the "knights of the sky" chivalry
attitudes held over from WWI, and early in the war there were a number
of clear examples of it. For example, it was considered improper to
shoot a pilot up in his chute after bailing. During the Battle of
Britain, there was a German pilot who would routinely shoot up the
chutes of bailed British pilots, despite the disapproval of his
Staffel mates. When _he_ got shot up and had to bail, his fellow
pilots carefully disengaged and orbited while the British pilots shot
up _his_ chute, then the combat resumed.
But as the war continued and the losses mounted, the old idealism
about air warfare being somehow more 'noble' than other forms of
warfare eroded until it was just as much a dirty business as any
other, and the operating principle became "The duty of a soldier is
not to die for his country; it is to make the _other_ poor bastard die
for _his_ country", and whatever it took to win was acceptable.
--
Sean R. Malloy | American Non Sequitur
Naval Medical Center | Society
San Diego, CA 92134-5000 |
mal...@cris.com | "We may not make sense,
srma...@snd10.med.navy.mil | but we do like pizza"
*NOTE* Remove the '_' in my email address for replies;
it is there to stop automatic remailers
Sean Malloy
"Hardin Gilbert" <hgil...@iswest.com> wrote:
>My main beef with Dora in the no icon arena is that I find it virtually
>invisible against the terrain background. And with it's incredible speed
>and acceleration, that makes it almost impossible to defend against. Which
>also made me relent on the "no icons in the HA" stance. With the limited
>palette in WB, poor blue-green colorblind folks like me are likely to call
>it quits....well at least I am. :)
Thinking about the way icons are handled, I remember Pyro or one of
the ICI people telling us that the icons for different plane types
were going to be genericized -- that you'd see "P38" for both the
P-38F and P-38J, for example. But as it worked out, you get within
2500 yards, and you get a nice, positive make on the plane, so you
know what its capabilities are.
I'd like to see the type icons for different models genericized --
regardless of _which_ Bf109 model it was, all you see is 'BF109', all
the P-38 models show up as 'P38', and all the Spitfire models show up
as 'SPIT'. The FW-190 I'm ambivalent about; I'm not sure whether
there's enough visual difference between the radial- and inline-engine
models to ID the difference at range; _I_ think the nose length is
enough to differentiate between them, but I'm not totally convinced.
If there is, the icons should be 'FW190A' for the A-4 and A-8, and
'FW190D' for the D-9; if not, then 'FW190' would be the icon for all
models.
When you get in close enough to pick up the color scheme, you'd be
able to ID the plane model, but genericizing the model icons would
add, in my opinion, a greater degree of uncertainty about what you
were facing, and make people plan tactics more conservatively.
Geoff Evans
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> writes:
>NAW -- here in the States we have what's called "the DMV" in most
>states. The Department of Motor Vehicals -- where we get our Drivering
>Liscences. You haven't lived (or died) until you have dealt with them
><g>
>zeno
>XXX
A couple of years ago (err..geesus, it's nearly 4 now ;) on that famous
honeymoon trip....
After driving the '78 Chevy Rustbucket 17,000 miles across the USA from
Catawissa -> Detroit -> Southern Canada -> Boston -> New York -> KeyWest
-> New Orleans -> Mississippi -> Rocky Mountains -> Grand Canyon -> Paris
Texas -> Aberqueque -> Tombstone -> San Diego -> Los Angeles -> Frisco ->
Beverly Hills.....we dropped into the DMV and 1/2 an hour later had all
the paperwork done and sold our East Coast clunker to a West Coast guy
(yeah, there was the smog cert...and some other papers...no problem ;)
and it was a breeze...some said we were REAL lucky but the point is...
you haven't experienced DMV madness to you go to the RTB in Vic. Aust ;]
Just kidding...however I was actually *impressed* by the DMV in Hollywood
...I had been expecting something along the lines you have indicated but
it never happened, I am pleased to say. Perspective is an amazing thing
isn't it ?
Ok...this is C.S.I.P.G.F-S so to keep it all kosher....anybody know
how to calculate the position of the enemy when pulling deflection
at 300 yds in a Bf109 <any varient> ??? ;] <- That's a joke son !
A joke, witisism of sorts, amusing little...oh forget it ;]
MJes...@aol.com
mal...@cris.com (Sean Malloy) wrote:
> _I_ think the nose length is
>enough to differentiate between them, but I'm not totally convinced.
>If there is, the icons should be 'FW190A' for the A-4 and A-8, and
>'FW190D' for the D-9; if not, then 'FW190' would be the icon for all
>models.
Yes, and my FW buddies don't appreciate having the longest easiest
to see icon in the game much either.
- Matt
WB: para
JG14
Zombie
On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:26:30 -0600, zeno <zen...@concentric.net>
wrote:
>NAW -- here in the States we have what's called "the DMV" in most
>states. The Department of Motor Vehicals -- where we get our Drivering
>Liscences. You haven't lived (or died) until you have dealt with them
Sorry Zeno, but now you just do not know what you talking about. Bring
your car to Finland and meet the finnish motor vehicle officials. I'd
let that lived part away :)
--
Zombie
FW is not for dogfighting. I'll just dive down and execute!
Then watch me run.
http://www.clinet.fi/~petsku/zombies_AW_page.html
John Krempasky
rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU (Geof Evans) wrote:
)
>Folgore C.202
>Veltro C.205V
>Orione C.205N
The Veltro is more arena competitivethan the Folgore; the Orione
wasn't seen in any numbers IMHO the Italian plane for WB is the
Macchi mC205V Veltro....
From the specs and descriptions I've seen it would be very Spit
IX-ish.
John Krempasky
adf...@psu.edu wrote:
> As for me, I'm waiting for the Tempest Mk. V Series 2!
Well, I've given a lot of thought to what planes would be
arena-suitable for WB....
IMHO, the Tempest would be too good for the arena. It did see
significant combat in 1945....but....
It would be faster than the Dora, with a better turn, AND with 4 20mm,
AND built tough as hell.
With a Tempest in the Arena, It would be TempestBirds more so than AW
was ever "Spit Warrior."
Trevor Myler
John Krempasky wrote:
>
> adf...@psu.edu wrote:
>
> > As for me, I'm waiting for the Tempest Mk. V Series 2!
>
> Well, I've given a lot of thought to what planes would be
> arena-suitable for WB....
>
> With a Tempest in the Arena, It would be TempestBirds more so than AW
> was ever "Spit Warrior."
I think one needs to get regressive rather than progressive. We've got a
pretty diverse late war set, it'd be nice to see a bit more of the early
war planes modelled. And some buffs from anywhere other than the US.
...and a gun camera
...and structural failures under G load
...and a user definiable gun sight
...and some stategic features ala the Euro terrain (that actually have
an effect when you hit them too of course)
...and...and...and...
Well Xmas is coming yah know -g-
Vortex