Open Letter on Exclusive Demos --- please read and lend your support !!!
John Lewis
community are getting together to ban any demos released as exclusive.
(FILEPLANET, GAMESPY, GAME-PUBLISHERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE).
These sites will refuse to host that demo even after it becomes
public.......... !!
For more info and to lend your support to this movement, please
see the following 3DGamers link:-
http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1071580531/
John Lewis
MB1701
-M
"John Lewis" <john...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3fe15c58...@news.verizon.net...
Knight37
@news.verizon.net:
> A large number of the top websites supporting the computer-gaming
> community are getting together to ban any demos released as exclusive.
>
> (FILEPLANET, GAMESPY, GAME-PUBLISHERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE).
>
> These sites will refuse to host that demo even after it becomes
> public.......... !!
Woo, great news, now we'll NEVER get those demos, instead of just having
to wait a while.
--
Knight37
Mark Morrison
Yeah, I mean - Fileplanet gets an EXCLUSIVE demo, nd the subscribers
get to download it straight away !!!
The non-subscribers have to wait a whole extra 24 hours !!!
The fuckers !
--
Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Gandalf Parker
>
> For more info and to lend your support to this movement, please
> see the following 3DGamers link:-
>
Before I lend my support I would need alittle more info than what was on
your link. All I see there is that you seem to be angry at the practice.
Where can I go to find out what the reason is for them doing it? So I
will be able to balance your ager vs their reasons.
Gandalf Parker
-- There is never a "best".
There are only Pros and Cons.
Lynley James
AVault is one of the sites on the open letter and they have most of
the text up at their site.
Lynley
Gandalf Parker
news:8ro3uv44q1d5fce6v...@4ax.com:
> AVault is one of the sites on the open letter and they have most of
> the text up at their site.
Im not seeing it. Is this text FOR the use of exclusive demos or against?
I already read the against letter.
Gandalf Parker
Lynley James
Against. They believe that demos should be made available to all
sites and at no cost to the consumer.
Lynley
ControlMode
Do you have an idea where this will lead.
"Knight37" <knig...@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns945567B5E...@130.133.1.4...
ControlMode
"Mark Morrison" <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6rl3uvkjqj34g09i6...@4ax.com...
Gandalf Parker
> Against. They believe that demos should be made available to all
> sites and at no cost to the consumer.
OK that wasnt what I was looking for. Someone cant very well decide if
they should back this protest without more than just the fact that they
are angry about it.
Gandalf Parker
Knight37
> "Knight37" <knig...@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns945567B5E...@130.133.1.4...
>> john...@verizon.net (John Lewis) wrote in news:3fe15c58.24051167
>> @news.verizon.net:
>>
>> > A large number of the top websites supporting the computer-gaming
>> > community are getting together to ban any demos released as
>> > exclusive.
>> >
>> > (FILEPLANET, GAMESPY, GAME-PUBLISHERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE).
>> >
>> > These sites will refuse to host that demo even after it becomes
>> > public.......... !!
>>
>> Woo, great news, now we'll NEVER get those demos, instead of just
>> having to wait a while.
>>
"ControlMode" <mc...@check.six.com> wrote in
news:CjnEb.86954$ea%.34545@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
> Short sightedness (spelling???) abounds here doesn't it...YOURS, not
> theirs. Do you have an idea where this will lead.
Where exactly will it lead? So far the worst that has happened is that
demos come out a bit later than they do on FilePlanet. Big whoop. I find
that a lot more desirable than FilePlanet being the ONLY place to get
those demos because some sites don't want to host late demos.
--
Knight37
john graesser
"Lynley James" <mag...@netactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:6vu3uv06uusulfi17...@4ax.com...
So who pays for the download sites and bandwidth charges? I seem to recall
that Fileplanet moves a Terabyte every so many days. If they are going to
front the costs of moving the demos the least they can expect is that you
will look at their ads for 2 seconds.
If a publisher can't or won't provide a download site, then more power to
the sites that will provide the service. Nothing is free. I would rather
wait 30-45 min on a download from fileplanet than blindly waste $40 at the
store to find out that the game sucks or that it doesn't even run on my
hardware.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>You don't understand marketing very well do you...
EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
THAT as your demo.
If it's good, buy it. If not, uninstall and delete the files.
Thanks to this I own (or will own when the latter comes out) Max Payne
2 and Deus Ex 2, and don't own Lionheart and Terminator 3.
I only wish I was doing this back when Pools of Radiance 2 slithered
out of the abortion bucket.
Gandalf Parker
> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
> THAT as your demo.
Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into empty
buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to keep their
stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
Gandalf Parker
-- Support the homeless
Feed the pigeons.
Ajay Tanwar
good way to threaten somebody was to light a stick of dynamite, then
call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone and say:
> Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
> news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
>> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and
>> use THAT as your demo.
> Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into
> empty buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to
> keep their stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
I must confess, I tried a couple grapes at the market the other day
to see if they were good. I ended up not buying them because they
were too mushy. Should I turn myself in now and throw myself at
their mercy, or just start whipping myself?
--
Ajay Tanwar | MCSE | ajta...@spam.yahoo.com
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people
in large groups." -Despair.com
fuzzynavel
As a supporting member of many premium web-sites I'm a bit leery of
anything like this. I personaly find most of the "top" websites are
bandwidth limited, and crammed full of either ads or beg letters, or
both! Just not worth the time to visit.
Just wait a few weeks and quit whinning about it sheesh.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:00:53 GMT, john...@verizon.net (John Lewis)
wrote:
ControlMode
sites are getting this exclusive demos for free, not likely. The companies
have found that some sites are willing to pay for those, pretty soon, some
genius will figure out that a site is willing to pay for a totally exclusive
demo, iow, they ONLY get it. It is a matter of time. We as consumers control
the market place, at least we are supposed to, unfortunately alot of gamers
don't treat developers and publishers as companies rather as beneovolant
parents who are giving us a gift that we should all be thankfull for...and I
am not referring to the demos but rather the released games.
"Knight37" <knig...@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94558E8EA...@130.133.1.4...
ControlMode
are headed. This demos are for the benefit of the publisher not the
consumer, they are advertising for them. THEY should pay for that
advertising NOT US>
"john graesser" <grae...@tca.net> wrote in message
news:vu429l9...@corp.supernews.com...
fuzzynavel
"subscription based server to ensure the fastest downloads possible."
what a joke it'll be a week after the service starts before they have
an exclucive!
LoL
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:32:52 -0600, fuzzynavel <spam...@spam.not>
wrote:
Gandalf Parker
news:Xns9455A754915F6...@151.164.30.93:
> Gandalf Parker <gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> thought that a
> good way to threaten somebody was to light a stick of dynamite, then
> call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone and say:
>
>> Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>> news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
>>> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and
>>> use THAT as your demo.
>
>> Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into
>> empty buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to
>> keep their stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
>
> I must confess, I tried a couple grapes at the market the other day
> to see if they were good. I ended up not buying them because they
> were too mushy. Should I turn myself in now and throw myself at
> their mercy, or just start whipping myself?
So you are saying its nothing? Well as far as being nothing to you I
could have guessed that. It will probably remain nothing to you for
another 10 years or so. If you are thinking its nothing to them then I
guess you would have to try the mercy thing to find out.
As far as whipping yourself that would accomplish nothing unless you
enjoy that kindof thing.
Gandalf Parker
--
Me: Some play to win or lose, others just to stay in the game.
Them: Are we talking about games or about life?
Me: Exactly.
drocket
wrote:
>A large number of the top websites supporting the computer-gaming
>community are getting together to ban any demos released as exclusive.
"Top websites"? I spend WAY too much of my day browsing gaming
websites, and I've never even heard of 3/4 of these guys. A number of
them look like they were designed by a 17 year old running the site on
a DSL connection at their house. I only see 3 that are even
marginally respectable, the biggest of them being Adrenaline Vault, a
once-quality site that's long since collapsed into worthlessness. All
of them together probably represent <25% of Fileplanet's traffic.
Lets face it: this is simply a list of gaming websites that are far
too small to ever get an exclusive demo. Its essentially a 'we're
jealous' petition. If any of them were ever offered anything even a
marginally exclusive, they'd be off this list faster than you can
blink.
Gandalf Parker
news:oca4uvcp53c78v1th...@4ax.com:
>
> As a supporting member of many premium web-sites I'm a bit leery of
> anything like this. I personaly find most of the "top" websites are
> bandwidth limited, and crammed full of either ads or beg letters, or
> both! Just not worth the time to visit.
Most of the "top" websites werent like that until they became the top
websites. And tho some would say it was to cash in on their popularity
others would point out that its a necessity created by becoming popular.
If you find a website that does everything you want without charging,
do yourself a favor.... dont tell anyone about it.
Gandalf Parker
-- Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority it is time to
pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
Gandalf Parker
news:c_pEb.87454$ea%.29406@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
> I assume you won't mind paying for the demo either, because thats
> where they are headed. This demos are for the benefit of the publisher
> not the consumer, they are advertising for them. THEY should pay for
> that advertising NOT US
And you think they dont know all that? You think they are trading
providing demos to a million people for the ability to provide demos of
their product to a few and make some bucks? And if we all refuse to go
this route the only thing that can happen is for them to go back to doing
it for free? Wow, big corporations should hire you to make their business
decisions.
Gandalf Parker
-- Please. Continue beating me over the head with only one side of the
argument. It does seem to be making things clearer.
Gandalf Parker
news:6ta4uvgjip70pc1ke...@4ax.com:
> Lets face it: this is simply a list of gaming websites that are far
> too small to ever get an exclusive demo.
But look at all the free publicity they are getting without ticking off
the newsgroup population with anything that looks like a spam. I guess if
they announce enough times that they arent giving in to one method of
increasing their traffic, then they wont have to. :)
Gandalf Parker
Mark Morrison
<gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
>
>> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
>> THAT as your demo.
>
>Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into empty
>buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to keep their
>stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
>
I noticed you snipped the part about actually buying the game if you
like it...
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>It will lead to "pay only demos" , thats where it will lead, do you think
>sites are getting this exclusive demos for free, not likely. The companies
>have found that some sites are willing to pay for those, pretty soon, some
>genius will figure out that a site is willing to pay for a totally exclusive
>demo, iow, they ONLY get it. It is a matter of time. We as consumers control
>the market place, at least we are supposed to, unfortunately alot of gamers
>don't treat developers and publishers as companies rather as beneovolant
>parents who are giving us a gift that we should all be thankfull for...and I
>am not referring to the demos but rather the released games.
Who gives a fuck ?
Wait for a review.
Buy the game then return it if it's crap (and if your shop doesn't
allow returns, fucking go somewhere else).
Download the warez version.
Try a friend's copy.
Better yet - find something worthwhile to worry about and get a
fucking life.
Gandalf Parker
> I noticed you snipped the part about actually buying the game if you
> like it...
Very good. And why would I do that?
Gandalf Parker
Joe M.
news:Xns9455A349880...@208.201.224.154...
Because the only way to make your point is to selectively snip so that the
person quoted is taken out of context. It's easy to win a debate when you
changes the facts - don't be impressed with yourself.
--
Joe M.
ControlMode
care
"Mark Morrison" <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cqe4uv0kntsfflf4r...@4ax.com...
Gandalf Parker
news:kZCdnWRERqL...@comcast.com:
I snip anything that doesnt pertain to the conversaton. I dont feel it
took it out of context at all. Im sorry if you feel that was an important
point but stealing something with the intention to maybe pay for it later
just appears to be minor justification from my end. Recommending that
others do the same is a total lack of understanding for any view but your
own IMHO
Gandalf Parker
Joe M.
This is exactly why you shouldn't snip. You're STILL misrepresenting his
post which is clear on it's face if you understand simple English:
>>EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
>>THAT as your demo.
>>If it's good, buy it. If not, uninstall and delete the files.
It seems to me you're taking liberties "interpreting" his post to suit your
needs (aka making stuff up - "stealing something with the intention to maybe
paying for it later") . Had you left the full text of his post a reasonable
person could have concluded that your contradiction was either speculative,
argumentative or simply ignorant since you would have been directly
challenging facts with no articulated theory or proof. You simply snipped
facts and misrepresented his stated behaviors - all to force an anti-piracy
agenda not at issue in this thread.
While I share your disdain for piracy, I will not call his behavior piracy
when viewed in its entirety (which is the only way it can be viewed - unless
you endorse analysis with less than all of the available, relevant facts).
If you believe his behavior is piracy, in light of his claim otherwise, then
include his stated behavior and challenge it - that would be a fair debate.
IMO, it's patently unfair to remove facts that fundamentally change the
ethical implications of a post to suit your position. If you don't see
this then you are, as they say in the vernacular, full of shit my good man.
:) Don't start flaming over the last line - I'm only joking.
--
Joe M.
Gandalf Parker
> You simply snipped
> facts and misrepresented his stated behaviors - all to force an
> anti-piracy agenda not at issue in this thread.
>
> While I share your disdain for piracy, I will not call his behavior
> piracy when viewed in its entirety (which is the only way it can be
> viewed - unless you endorse analysis with less than all of the
> available, relevant facts). If you believe his behavior is piracy, in
> light of his claim otherwise, then include his stated behavior and
> challenge it - that would be a fair debate.
Sorry. You consider me to have interpreted his post as piracy. I consider
you to have interpreted his post as not piracy (as he meant it). It still
amounts to breaking the rules for personal justification. He has no problem
recognizing what he is doing, which is fine. But recommending it to others
on a large scale naive. The companys arent giving us free demos anymore so
we should turn to the warez world with the intention of paying?
Fine, I will redo the post. :-)
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:35:26 GMT, "ControlMode" <mc...@check.six.com>
> wrote:
>
>>You don't understand marketing very well do you...
>
> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
> THAT as your demo.
>
> If it's good, buy it. If not, uninstall and delete the files.
<longer version including his justification and extending mine with self-
justifications for those that missed the point>
And everyone should shoplift their food, the stores expect it anyway.
Break into empty buildings to sleep, its better than no one using them.
Take a shopping cart for my stuff, it will end up back there eventually
its just taking longer. Lets see, what are the other things the homeless
do to not pay for things but not really steal.....
Its not justification of stealing if I can find a reason for it. Its
their fault for not giving us free demos anymore. Besides if I like it Im
going to replace the full version I have with the full version I buy.
Everyone should do that. That way its not piracy, its demos. >:)
Gandalf Parker
erimess
>john...@verizon.net (John Lewis) wrote in news:3fe15c58.24051167
>@news.verizon.net:
>
>> A large number of the top websites supporting the computer-gaming
>> community are getting together to ban any demos released as exclusive.
>>
>> (FILEPLANET, GAMESPY, GAME-PUBLISHERS PLEASE TAKE NOTE).
>>
>> These sites will refuse to host that demo even after it becomes
>> public.......... !!
>
>Woo, great news, now we'll NEVER get those demos, instead of just having
>to wait a while.
>
Exactly what I was thinking, and I'm really tired of agreeing with
everything you say. Getting quite disgusting really.
---
erimess
Do infants enjoy infancy as much as
adults enjoy adultery?
--George Carlin Mumblings
Joe M.
As long as you admit HE is not CURRENTLY stealing then you make fair point.
I would tend to agree that we should not encourage warez as a demo solution
for the masses. This is far too tempting and the more widespread the
practice, the more potential for theft. It becomes an ethical slippery
slope. First we demo the game for a week, then we demo games for a month,
then we keep a few games on the hard drive for a year just in case we get
the urge to play, until one day we've desensitized ourselves enough that we
start keeping all games permanently.
--
Joe M.
someone
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:12:07 -0600, "john graesser" <grae...@tca.net>
posted:
a simple solution would be to bitorrent it.
John Lewis
wrote:
>Gandalf Parker <gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> thought that a
>good way to threaten somebody was to light a stick of dynamite, then
>call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone and say:
>
>> Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>> news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
>>> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and
>>> use THAT as your demo.
>
>> Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into
>> empty buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to
>> keep their stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
>
>I must confess, I tried a couple grapes at the market the other day
>to see if they were good. I ended up not buying them because they
>were too mushy. Should I turn myself in now and throw myself at
>their mercy, or just start whipping myself?
>
How interesting. I love table-grapes, but NEVER buy without
(er...) sampling one. However, I purchase 5-10 pounds
of grapes all at once. On average, the vendor has won out
at least 1000:1, since before I ever sample I first judge the
grapes by their appearance. If the actual vendor is present, I
ask their permission first; in a supermarket, I just sample.
If the security cameras catch me, I doubt that my sample of a
single grape is going to get me into trouble.
I do not feel that I am a sinner...............and I never
rip off software.........
John Lewis
John Lewis
FYI.
The sites on the list are not at all little gaming web-sites.
For example, Avault and 3DGamers are amongst the most
respected and popular on the planet of English-speaking folk.
Avault for general gaming news, reviews and downloads (lately
including a console section) , 3DGamers for PC-related demos
and patches plus access to very powerful download servers.
You may not know them in your little world.............
Anyway, the sooner parasites like FilePlanet
are brought to heel the better.
John Lewis
RM
"> > EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
> > THAT as your demo.
>
> Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food,
Grocer out of a tangible item. Definitely misses a sale.
>break into empty buildings for a place to sleep,
Damage to private property, again owner out funds for repair and possible
use of building.
>and take shopping carts to keep their stuff in.
Again a tangible item that must be replaced with a cost attached.
> You got any other great tips for us? :)
>
> Gandalf Parker
> -- Support the homeless
> Feed the pigeons.
Yeah, stay in context of the situation. He said he would buy the programs he
likes. Publisher paid for good product.
RM
> amounts to breaking the rules for personal justification. He has no
problem
> recognizing what he is doing, which is fine. But recommending it to others
> on a large scale naive. The companys arent giving us free demos anymore so
> we should turn to the warez world with the intention of paying?
>
business model. Free demos will sell a lot more product than "here, buy this
and whether you like it or not you have to keep it" method.
JLC
"drocket" <dro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ta4uvgjip70pc1ke...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:00:53 GMT, john...@verizon.net (John Lewis)
> wrote:
>
> >A large number of the top websites supporting the computer-gaming
> >community are getting together to ban any demos released as exclusive.
>
> "Top websites"? I spend WAY too much of my day browsing gaming
> websites, and I've never even heard of 3/4 of these guys. A number of
> them look like they were designed by a 17 year old running the site on
> a DSL connection at their house. I only see 3 that are even
> marginally respectable, the biggest of them being Adrenaline Vault, a
> once-quality site that's long since collapsed into worthlessness.
May I ask you why you feel this way about Avault? I have been going to this
site every day for 5 years. I DL all my demos from them and enjoy their
reviews and articles. They also have a vast amount of game patches either on
their server's or linked. Why is it "worthless" now? JLC
Mark Morrison
You're insane, which is why you name yourself after a wizard ?
Lynley James
>
>"Lynley James" <mag...@netactive.co.za> wrote in message
>news:6vu3uv06uusulfi17...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:46:13 GMT, Gandalf Parker
>> <gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>>
>> >Lynley James <mag...@netactive.co.za> wrote in
>> >news:8ro3uv44q1d5fce6v...@4ax.com:
>> >
>> >> AVault is one of the sites on the open letter and they have most of
>> >> the text up at their site.
>> >
>> >Im not seeing it. Is this text FOR the use of exclusive demos or against?
>> >I already read the against letter.
>> >
>> >Gandalf Parker
>>
>> Against. They believe that demos should be made available to all
>> sites and at no cost to the consumer.
>
>So who pays for the download sites and bandwidth charges? I seem to recall
>that Fileplanet moves a Terabyte every so many days. If they are going to
>front the costs of moving the demos the least they can expect is that you
>will look at their ads for 2 seconds.
>
>If a publisher can't or won't provide a download site, then more power to
>the sites that will provide the service. Nothing is free. I would rather
>wait 30-45 min on a download from fileplanet than blindly waste $40 at the
>store to find out that the game sucks or that it doesn't even run on my
>hardware.
>
No-one is arguing against ad supported sites, just exclusive demo
releases to pay sites.
Lynley
Mark Morrison
Yes - otherwise how are we to know what the game is like ? I've yet
to read a 'Work in Progress' where the designers and programmers say
"Actually, it's not going as well as planned. A few ideas didn't turn
out so well, and it looks our publishers are going to force us to
release early. Basically, it's looking like it going to be crap !"
And yes, I'm thinking of Lionheart. Even after the complaints about
the shit demo, they STILL told us "It's great ! Don't worry, the demo
isn't representative of the actual game, it'd just different bits
cobbled together !"
I if I hadn't warezed it, I'd have ended up paying £30 for it, thus
ensuring I'd have never bought another game from them again. As it
was, I almost did own it, as I forgot to cancel my pre-order with
Amazon, and had to send the game back when it arrived.
By comparison, Deus Ex 2, which I liked, is still on pre-proder with
Amazon, thus ensuring I'll play my small part in creating a
possibility of Deus Ex 3.
I have no problems, morally, or ethically, with my actions whatsoever.
>Fine, I will redo the post. :-)
>Gandalf Parker
>
Mark Morrison
Ah, but if you could TRUST the demos, you might have a point. What
happens when you have the game company saying "We know the demo isn't
very good, and it's buggy and crude, but buy the game anyway !"
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Wow, such anger for something you DON'T care about, I am sure glad you don't
>care
Here's is my personal point of view -
It's close to Christmas and I'm running around trying to finish my
shopping - we have soldiers in Iraq getting killed almost daily, we
have North Korea building up it's nuclear arsenal while Bush is
looking for someone else to bomb (as long as they can't bomb back), GM
crops are spreading everywhere, I need cash for a party tonight so i
can buy drinks and hopefully have sex.
And you expect me to get worked up about a bunch of guys whining about
how they're ENTITLED to free demos ?
Look out the window and find something meaningful to worry about.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Anyway, the sooner parasites like FilePlanet
>are brought to heel the better.
You know know what a parasite actually DOES than defines it as a
parasite ?
You gimp.
drocket
>May I ask you why you feel this way about Avault? I have been going to this
>site every day for 5 years. I DL all my demos from them and enjoy their
>reviews and articles. They also have a vast amount of game patches either on
>their server's or linked. Why is it "worthless" now? JLC
It looks like they've improved somewhat since the last time I bothered
to check them out (which was quite a while back, admittedly.)
Probably the biggest problem is that they don't seen to know what kind
of website they want to be. Looking at the headlines they have up
right now, if I didn't know better, I'd think they were a movie review
site. You have to dig to find anything related to PC gaming. If I
want news and information about PC games, I'm going to go to a website
that specializes in PC games, not one that happens mention them a few
times between movies reviews, console game news, hardware reviews,
information about buying a new stereo, etc. Seriously, pick a topic
and stick to it.
Gerry Quinn
>Gandalf Parker <gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> thought that a
>good way to threaten somebody was to light a stick of dynamite, then
>call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone and say:
>
>>> use THAT as your demo.
>
>> empty buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to
>> keep their stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
>
>I must confess, I tried a couple grapes at the market the other day
>to see if they were good. I ended up not buying them because they
>were too mushy. Should I turn myself in now and throw myself at
>their mercy, or just start whipping myself?
I remember someone posting a great big whinge just a while ago about how
his hard disk had crashed and all "his" games and movies etc. had been
lost. The problem is, you see, you get a lot of pirates who hide behind
'responsible warez users' such as Mr. Morrison.
- Gerry Quinn
Knight37
news:1ZpEb.87452$ea%.21324@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:
> It will lead to "pay only demos" , thats where it will lead,
So what? If they think they can charge for demos then more power to them.
I'm not going to be buying them but others might. It just means there
will be fewer people who see the demo and possibly fewer people buying
the full game as a result. If that's how game companies want to operate,
that's their decision.
> do you
> think sites are getting this exclusive demos for free, not likely. The
> companies have found that some sites are willing to pay for those,
> pretty soon, some genius will figure out that a site is willing to pay
> for a totally exclusive demo, iow, they ONLY get it. It is a matter of
> time. We as consumers control the market place, at least we are
> supposed to, unfortunately alot of gamers don't treat developers and
> publishers as companies rather as beneovolant parents who are giving
> us a gift that we should all be thankfull for...and I am not referring
> to the demos but rather the released games.
Not sure where you're going with the rest of this.
--
Knight37
Alex
wrote:
>And you expect me to get worked up about a bunch of guys whining about
>how they're ENTITLED to free demos ?
Seems you already are worked up...
Lynley James
SInce their new look was developed about two months ago they do seem
to be concentrating on films. I have the same problem as you, I do
not want movie reviews, just good game reviews.
Lynley
ControlMode
the post sure seem pretty 'worked up' to me.
"Mark Morrison" <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bqd5uvksg9o5almoa...@4ax.com...
Gandalf Parker
news:r2yEb.3454607$Id.5...@news.easynews.com:
> Flaws in your theory....
You provided me with excellent examples of where the loss would really be
therefor making the justifications obviously worthless.
> Yeah, stay in context of the situation. He said he would buy the
> programs he likes. Publisher paid for good product.
Ahhhh again someone has failed to follow the point. Subtlety is lost. What
he said would be excellent reasoning and a good recommendation .....
Finish it out. Can you do for his statement what you did for my examples?
Come on. No one can be a good debater if they cant flip over and look at
things from the other side.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
news:p5yEb.3454819$Id.5...@news.easynews.com:
True enough. Plainly obvious. Probably why so many small developers will
always provide free demos. Their goal is to get more people to try their
games.
Unfortunately, the large companies have a slightly more involved goal.
They want people to buy their games specifically to make a profit. While
you recognize that as their goal you seem to be giving in to the "big
boys start charging because they become greedy" line of thinking. I keep
hearing this about banners, pop-up ads, subscription services, pay-to-
download, etc etc.
I have 2 points here.
A) This is Internet. Big and popular means you cant AFFORD to do it the
small guys way.
B) This is Internet. If you dont like it, fix it. become one of the small
guys and provide it yourself. If you want to think its out of spite and
will make them angry, fine. The truth is that they will probably be
relieved that you do.
And yes Ive done that. Ive seen it from both sides.
I worked for internet servers, now I am one.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
>>Very good. And why would I do that?
>>Gandalf Parker
>>
> You're insane, which is why you name yourself after a wizard ?
Ahhh good shot! WRONG!
Is that why you named yourself after a Mark?
(slang term for target of a con)
If you search you will see that I specifically put my last name also in
order to give some people a clue.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
> Yes - otherwise how are we to know what the game is like ? I've yet
> to read a 'Work in Progress' where the designers and programmers say
> "Actually, it's not going as well as planned. A few ideas didn't turn
> out so well, and it looks our publishers are going to force us to
> release early. Basically, it's looking like it going to be crap !"
>
Really? I can remember a few interviews with developers that went exactly
along that line. In fact, its quite common. But then anyone who has ever
worked with programmers will smile at that since no programmer ever comes
out and says his project is completely finished and ready. In fact Id say
its probably true of any author, music writer, finl director. Thats one of
the jobs of a publisher or producer, to keep pushing a deadline and finally
snatch it away from the artist. In general the scoreboard is pretty good
although some get it wrong.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
>>their fault for not giving us free demos anymore. Besides if I like it
>>Im going to replace the full version I have with the full version I
>>buy. Everyone should do that. That way its not piracy, its demos.
>>>:)
>>
> Ah, but if you could TRUST the demos, you might have a point. What
> happens when you have the game company saying "We know the demo isn't
> very good, and it's buggy and crude, but buy the game anyway !"
Hmmm Im not quite following this. First off a game company would never say
that, only the developers would.
Oh you mean that if the game sucks then it justifies using the warez thing
as a demo. Well thats true. Im not arguing that point. Test driving a car
before buying it makes sense. Downloading a demo before buying the full
game is a no-brainer good idea. Using warez to play-test a program before
buying it makes a ton of sense.
Gandalf Parker
Mark Morrison
<gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:17d5uv83fn11v8795...@4ax.com:
>
>> Yes - otherwise how are we to know what the game is like ? I've yet
>> to read a 'Work in Progress' where the designers and programmers say
>> "Actually, it's not going as well as planned. A few ideas didn't turn
>> out so well, and it looks our publishers are going to force us to
>> release early. Basically, it's looking like it going to be crap !"
>>
>
>Really? I can remember a few interviews with developers that went exactly
>along that line. In fact, its quite common.
Sure - AFTER the game is released and no longer being bought, not
pre-release. After it's out, their line changes to "Oh yeah, we know
it was crap but the publisher's forced us to release early, so it wsa
buggy and unfinished. But the game we're working on now is going to
be great !" Then THAT game is released, and we hear the same old
lines.
Mark Morrison
You like the kid out of Parker Lewis Can't Lose ?
Mark Morrison
<gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:8md5uvc213eeq299p...@4ax.com:
>
>>>their fault for not giving us free demos anymore. Besides if I like it
>>>Im going to replace the full version I have with the full version I
>>>buy. Everyone should do that. That way its not piracy, its demos.
>>>>:)
>>>
>> Ah, but if you could TRUST the demos, you might have a point. What
>> happens when you have the game company saying "We know the demo isn't
>> very good, and it's buggy and crude, but buy the game anyway !"
>
>Hmmm Im not quite following this. First off a game company would never say
>that, only the developers would.
Company, Publishers, Developers, whoever - this is precisely what the
Lionheart people said pre-release, post demo.
>Oh you mean that if the game sucks then it justifies using the warez thing
>as a demo. Well thats true. Im not arguing that point. Test driving a car
>before buying it makes sense. Downloading a demo before buying the full
>game is a no-brainer good idea. Using warez to play-test a program before
>buying it makes a ton of sense.
>
Then what's the problem ? Assuming you're not being sarcastic.
Mark Morrison
Not about the 'cause' itself, but I'm annoyed at the no-life idiots
for whom this is the most importnant thing in their life right now.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Well, you response says different, anyone who swears as much as you did in
>the post sure seem pretty 'worked up' to me.
I swear a lot anyway, to be honest, regardless of conversation.
I only swear in newsgroups, or in any text based mediums, when I'm
annoyed, or want to cause offense, etc.
Kroagnon
"john graesser" <grae...@tca.net> wrote in message
news:vu429l9...@corp.supernews.com...
> If a publisher can't or won't provide a download site, then more power to
> the sites that will provide the service. Nothing is free. I would rather
> wait 30-45 min on a download from fileplanet than blindly waste $40 at the
> store to find out that the game sucks or that it doesn't even run on my
> hardware.
The idea is to stand against submiting personal info or even paying to
download demos. Anybody who is for places like Fileplanet is an enemy to the
free anonymous Internet.
Gandalf Parker
>>Really? I can remember a few interviews with developers that went
>>exactly along that line. In fact, its quite common.
>
> Sure - AFTER the game is released and no longer being bought, not
> pre-release.
No thats not at all true. Alot of interviews with the developers PRE-
distrib talk about the things they feel are not yet ready. Of course with
the larger companies its hard to get an interview with a real programmer of
the game but the ones Ive seen seem to follow the norm of "a programmer
never feels his stuff is ready for distrib".
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
>>Gandalf Parker
>
> You like the kid out of Parker Lewis Can't Lose ?
>
Sorry. that one went by me. I guess I dont remember that movie?
Gandalf Parker
Mark Morrison
I've never read, in any interview, a statement by a programmer,
designer, etc, where they say "I just don't the game is going to be
any good - too many things have happpened behind the scenes and it's
just not going to be a good game."
Ony after release does all this come out.
Mark Morrison
I think it was a US kid's TV show. I've never seen it myself, either.
:-p
Gandalf Parker
>>Oh you mean that if the game sucks then it justifies using the warez
>>thing as a demo. Well thats true. Im not arguing that point. Test
>>driving a car before buying it makes sense. Downloading a demo before
>>buying the full game is a no-brainer good idea. Using warez to
>>play-test a program before buying it makes a ton of sense.
>>
> Then what's the problem ? Assuming you're not being sarcastic.
??? Wow. Like a paladin debating with thieves. You dont see the
difference in the things I listed? Two of those are provided for you and
considered a good idea by both parties. One is stepping into the rip-off
world armed with a justification why its OK. Its not that warez will
allow a way to test the program first that I doubt. Its trying to turn it
into an acceptable thing by saying they will buy it if they like it.
Thats like "these warez are only for backups" or "these MP3's are only
high quality recordings provided if you legally own the CD" or "these
programs to crack sites are for learning purposes only". Next I expect to
see "this porn is for medical studies". Just accept that warez are a rip-
off. Say it proudly then take the hits for saying it. Not that I will
like anyone better for it but its better than justification.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
news:vu6ckro...@news.supernews.com:
Heehee. Free Anonymous Internet? Thats funny. Good shot. :)
You should come over to the hacker newsgroups and join some of the
conversations. Its one of the favorite subjects how the WWW generation has
such strange views on how the net is run.
Gandalf Parker
--
"The Internet is made up of a totally Democratic structure governing
hundreds of thousands of small dictatorships."
Gandalf Parker
>>No thats not at all true. Alot of interviews with the developers PRE-
>>distrib talk about the things they feel are not yet ready. Of course
>>with the larger companies its hard to get an interview with a real
>>programmer of the game but the ones Ive seen seem to follow the norm
>>of "a programmer never feels his stuff is ready for distrib".
>
> I've never read, in any interview, a statement by a programmer,
> designer, etc, where they say "I just don't the game is going to be
> any good - too many things have happpened behind the scenes and it's
> just not going to be a good game."
Of course not. Why would that ever happen. But alot of them say the game
isnt ready. They specifically mention things that the users complain
about after the game is released.
> Ony after release does all this come out.
Duh. Only after the release can such a statement BE made. Before its
released its the programmers saying its "not finished" and after a
release its "the publisher pushed us to release it too soon". Im not
saying that publishing companies havent made that mistake. But I dont
think it was planned ahead of time.
Gandalf Parker
Kevin Kramer
>
[snip]
> - Gerry Quinn
Nothing personal, but...
Every damn time I read your posts I get "Quinn the Eskimo"
stuck in my head!!!
Kevin
Dave Hayslett
gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites says...> news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
>
> > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:35:26 GMT, "ControlMode" <mc...@check.six.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>You don't understand marketing very well do you...
> >
> > EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
> > THAT as your demo.
> >
>
> <longer version including his justification and extending mine with self-
> justifications for those that missed the point>
>
> And everyone should shoplift their food, the stores expect it anyway.
> Break into empty buildings to sleep, its better than no one using them.
> Take a shopping cart for my stuff, it will end up back there eventually
> its just taking longer. Lets see, what are the other things the homeless
> do to not pay for things but not really steal.....
>
> Its not justification of stealing if I can find a reason for it. Its
> going to replace the full version I have with the full version I buy.
> Everyone should do that. That way its not piracy, its demos. >:)
>
>
>
>
Test-driving a car is a much better analogy for what he's talking about.
--
Dave
My inner Carl is named Bob.
Brian Trosko
> Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
> news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
> > EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
> > THAT as your demo.
> Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into empty
> buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to keep their
> stuff in.
Still intentionally misrepresenting non-rival goods as rival ones, are
you?
Gandalf Parker
news:MPG.1a4d5d8b9...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com:
> Test-driving a car is a much better analogy for what he's talking about.
>
Id say test driving a car by snagging off the lot in the middle of the
night and returning it, with the intention of buying it if he likes it.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
news:bs071p$rlj$2...@reader2.panix.com:
The concept of "nothing stolen, no crime" is still in the eyes of the
perpetrator. Until the other side agrees, its just an opinion.
Gandalf Parker
Joe M.
news:Xns9456BD8F1B1...@208.201.224.154...
Not a valid analogy. Stealing a car for an illegal test drive is
completely different than stealing software. If you were to seriously
damage or fail to return the new car you have permanently prevented the sale
of one unit whose cost must be absorbed by the manufacturer/retailer
(purposely ignoring insurance).
Downloading software has no similar corollary. You're not downloading
software someone else COULD HAVE bought - you're downloading a "phantom"
copy. Technically, all warez could be harmless since it is POSSIBLE that
all illegal downloads are by those people who would not otherwise have
bought the software. I'm not saying this is probable but it is possible and
this certainly distinguishes warez software from tangible goods.
--
Joe M.
Mark Morrison
<gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>Thats like "these warez are only for backups" or "these MP3's are only
>high quality recordings provided if you legally own the CD" or "these
>programs to crack sites are for learning purposes only". Next I expect to
>see "this porn is for medical studies". Just accept that warez are a rip-
>off. Say it proudly then take the hits for saying it. Not that I will
>like anyone better for it but its better than justification.
I honestly can't understand why you find the practice so offensive.
Gandalf Parker
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:30:16 GMT, Gandalf Parker
> <gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>>Thats like "these warez are only for backups" or "these MP3's are only
>>high quality recordings provided if you legally own the CD" or "these
>>programs to crack sites are for learning purposes only". Next I expect
>>to see "this porn is for medical studies". Just accept that warez are
>>a rip-off. Say it proudly then take the hits for saying it. Not that
>>I will like anyone better for it but its better than justification.
>
> I honestly can't understand why you find the practice so offensive.
I know. Its not really worth trying to convince people on such subjects. If
it were then there wouldnt be laws against it. Eventually most will
recognize the cycle that they too will probably slide eventually into a
point where such things matter. And the fact that the laws against it tend
to be made by people who have gotten there, and probably also didnt care
much in their younger days, is a never ending cycle.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
news:Ofadnf8l3Yi...@comcast.com:
> "Gandalf Parker" <gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in message
> news:Xns9456BD8F1B1...@208.201.224.154...
>> Dave Hayslett <hayslet...@nc.rr.com> wrote in
>> news:MPG.1a4d5d8b9...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com:
>>
>> > Test-driving a car is a much better analogy for what he's talking
>> > about.
>> >
>>
>> Id say test driving a car by snagging off the lot in the middle of
>> the night and returning it, with the intention of buying it if he
>> likes it.
>>
>> Gandalf Parker
>
> Not a valid analogy. Stealing a car for an illegal test drive is
> completely different than stealing software. If you were to seriously
> damage or fail to return the new car you have permanently prevented
> the sale of one unit whose cost must be absorbed by the
> manufacturer/retailer (purposely ignoring insurance).
You are basing that on an IF.
> Downloading software has no similar corollary. You're not downloading
> software someone else COULD HAVE bought - you're downloading a
> "phantom" copy. Technically, all warez could be harmless since it is
> POSSIBLE that all illegal downloads are by those people who would not
> otherwise have bought the software. I'm not saying this is probable
> but it is possible and this certainly distinguishes warez software
> from tangible goods.
You are also basing this on an IF. Its a victimless crime IF warez dont
actually provide games to people who would not have bought it or IF (as
the original poster suggested) the warez user buys it upon deciding they
like it.
GOOD corollarys are harder to understand. Why its a crime to copy music
and give it to a friend, or movies, or books, or copies of software, or
information on how to make a million dollars using a particular marketing
method, or any patented idea.
Gandalf Parker
Xocyll
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:28:00 GMT, Gandalf Parker
><gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>>Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>>news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:35:26 GMT, "ControlMode" <mc...@check.six.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You don't understand marketing very well do you...
>>>
>>> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
>>> THAT as your demo.
>>>
>>> If it's good, buy it. If not, uninstall and delete the files.
>>
>><longer version including his justification and extending mine with self-
>>justifications for those that missed the point>
>>
>>And everyone should shoplift their food, the stores expect it anyway.
>>Break into empty buildings to sleep, its better than no one using them.
>>Take a shopping cart for my stuff, it will end up back there eventually
>>its just taking longer. Lets see, what are the other things the homeless
>>do to not pay for things but not really steal.....
>>
>>Its not justification of stealing if I can find a reason for it. Its
>>their fault for not giving us free demos anymore. Besides if I like it Im
>>going to replace the full version I have with the full version I buy.
>>Everyone should do that. That way its not piracy, its demos. >:)
>>
>Ah, but if you could TRUST the demos, you might have a point. What
>happens when you have the game company saying "We know the demo isn't
>very good, and it's buggy and crude, but buy the game anyway !"
Don't forget those other "demos".
The ones carefully crafted to run wonderfully well on the minimum
specified hardware, even if the game won't run at all on it.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Xocyll
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:
>Dave Hayslett <hayslet...@nc.rr.com> wrote in
That might be a good analogy for the guy who nabbed the Half-life 2
code, but the average warez downloader didn't do the "stealing" him or
herself.
Re: the car test
I'd see the demo as a "controlled circumstances test", since it's not
necessarily representative of the final game at all.
What good is a "roadtest" that only lets you drive around the indoor,
smooth, dry parking lot at no more than 30kph?
I bet even a Yugo or Trabant looks good with a roadtest like that.
Is it at all indicative of how that car is going to behave on bumpy
surfaces, wet surfaces, at highway speeds, in traffic?
No it's not.
And too many game demos have the same relationship to the actual
released product that that sort of roadtest has to a real roadtest.
When's there going to be a requirement that the demo actually reflect
what it's supposedly demoing?
Gandalf Parker
news:ucu8uvork2vj0u5ij...@4ax.com:
> Don't forget those other "demos".
> The ones carefully crafted to run wonderfully well on the minimum
> specified hardware, even if the game won't run at all on it.
Alot of times its not so much "crafted to run wonderfully" on lesser
systems as much as that its an accident. You have a full game and you chop
out large parts of it to make a demo. Usually not much attention is paid to
that process. To avoid the problem you mention they would have to take
specific steps to tell the demo "pretend you need all this memory even if
you dont" and stuff like that.
Not that it cant be done. Ive seen demos that specifically tested the
hardware and reported things like "your graphic card not supported" "not
enough memory" "not enough hard drive space for the full game" even if the
demo itself didnt need any of that. But as I said, its more that it takes
an effort to do it than that its a carefully schemed plan to fool people
into buying a game they cant run.
Gandalf parker
Gandalf Parker
news:uhu8uvo65aikafe96...@4ax.com:
> When's there going to be a requirement that the demo actually reflect
> what it's supposedly demoing?
Not likely. A demo is usually a trimmed down version of the game. To
reflect all that the game can do would mean more of a full version of the
game with some locks added. The problem with that is that the locks would
get cracked out and cracked demos are downloaded with less guilt than
cracked full games. Also less people would download a full sized demo than
they would a tiny taste demo.
It would be nice, But all in all more is ganed than lost by the present
method
Gandalf Parker
Robert Norton
> Why its a crime to copy music
> and give it to a friend, or movies, or books, or copies of software,
Do you think it is a crime for me to sing "Happy Birthday" with my friends
and family at my birthday party? It is against the law, you know.
Dog@neverland.com Old Dog
Lionheart was junk? (although not everyone thought so).
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lionheartlegacyofthecrusader/
Jonathan
ps if the demo is junk, and the reviews are junk, then should I order it?
tough choice. :)
"Mark Morrison" <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in message
snip
>
> And yes, I'm thinking of Lionheart. Even after the complaints about
> the shit demo, they STILL told us "It's great ! Don't worry, the demo
> isn't representative of the actual game, it'd just different bits
> cobbled together !"
>
> I if I hadn't warezed it, I'd have ended up paying £30 for it, thus
> ensuring I'd have never bought another game from them again. As it
> was, I almost did own it, as I forgot to cancel my pre-order with
> Amazon, and had to send the game back when it arrived.
>
Gandalf Parker
news:941Fb.147533$Ek.5...@twister.austin.rr.com:
> You couldn't have read the 10,000 reviews on it on the internet to
> tell you Lionheart was junk? (although not everyone thought so).
>
> http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lionheartlegacyofthecrusad
> er/
>
> Jonathan
> ps if the demo is junk, and the reviews are junk, then should I order
> it? tough choice. :)
But.. but.. but.. they.. the company.. they put on the box that it was a
great game! They didnt pull it off the market! It doesnt matter if some
people liked it, IT SUCKED and they should have said so.
Sure glad I ripped it off instead of buying it.
Gandalf Parker
Lynley James
wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:07:45 GMT, Gandalf Parker
><gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>>Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>>news:e4d5uv4m0iaebdfdd...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>Very good. And why would I do that?
>>>>Gandalf Parker
>>>>
>>> You're insane, which is why you name yourself after a wizard ?
>>
>>Ahhh good shot! WRONG!
>>Is that why you named yourself after a Mark?
>>(slang term for target of a con)
>>
>>If you search you will see that I specifically put my last name also in
>>order to give some people a clue.
>>
>>Gandalf Parker
>
>You like the kid out of Parker Lewis Can't Lose ?
Now that was a good show.
Lynley
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>You couldn't have read the 10,000 reviews on it on the internet to tell you
>Lionheart was junk? (although not everyone thought so).
>
>http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lionheartlegacyofthecrusader/
>
>Jonathan
>ps if the demo is junk, and the reviews are junk, then should I order it?
>tough choice. :)
I'd pre-ordered it on the strength of the people involved, and the
pre-release interviews.
The problem with online reviews is that so many of them are purely
subjective - if they didn't like them, then the game is crap, and vice
versa.
John Lewis
wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 06:15:30 GMT, john...@verizon.net (John Lewis)
>wrote:
>
>>Anyway, the sooner parasites like FilePlanet
>>are brought to heel the better.
>
>You know know what a parasite actually DOES than defines it as a
>parasite ?
>
>You gimp.
>
Sorry, I should have said parasite-carrier. Many, many apologies.
BTW, I am not a gimp. And if I really was, I would find that term
quite offensive as a description of my disability.
Better description of FilePlanet: Leech or even better still:
Mosquito, since you never know what undesirable foreign
bodies are injected into your computer-system by a
download from FilePlanet.
BTW, you are a twit, but you probably have been
so informed by many others already.
John Lewis
Xocyll
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:07:45 GMT, Gandalf Parker
><gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>>Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>>news:e4d5uv4m0iaebdfdd...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>Very good. And why would I do that?
>>>>Gandalf Parker
>>>>
>>> You're insane, which is why you name yourself after a wizard ?
>>
>>Ahhh good shot! WRONG!
>>Is that why you named yourself after a Mark?
>>(slang term for target of a con)
>>
>>If you search you will see that I specifically put my last name also in
>>order to give some people a clue.
>>
>>Gandalf Parker
>
>You like the kid out of Parker Lewis Can't Lose ?
Nah he was just a mild mannered student with an interest in journalism
when he got bitten by a radioactive Balrog.
Xocyll
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in
>news:ucu8uvork2vj0u5ij...@4ax.com:
>
>> Don't forget those other "demos".
>> The ones carefully crafted to run wonderfully well on the minimum
>> specified hardware, even if the game won't run at all on it.
>
>Alot of times its not so much "crafted to run wonderfully" on lesser
>systems as much as that its an accident. You have a full game and you chop
>out large parts of it to make a demo. Usually not much attention is paid to
>that process. To avoid the problem you mention they would have to take
>specific steps to tell the demo "pretend you need all this memory even if
>you dont" and stuff like that.
Agreed, but one of the "easier" was would be to make the demo one of the
more intense portions of the game.
If the game is going to have a lot of AI creatures in some levels, then
a "demo" that features no more than 2 AI creatures isn't going to have
much bearing on the performance later on.
Cue NWN-HotU with big 30+ creature battles and lots of lag on lesser
machines.
Or Diablo2 which used as a demo the most sparsely populated portion of
the game.
Tachyon became literally unplayable on the minimum spec.
A Demo which never has more than 3 ships and almost no other things in
the "space" you're flying through doesn't tell you anything about how
the game is going to play with multiple ships and space stations and
debris.
The result - perfectly smooth playing demo, but an unplayable game that
went into negative slideshow mode (things happening, but no video
updating at all) when the player did a convoy escort through a cluttered
system and was then attacked by multiple pirate ships.
[Not a video problem either, purely the RAM since going from 32 to 96meg
made the problem disappear completely.]
This says one of two things.
1. The demo was careful not to exceed the min spec requirements.
2. They never actually tested their claimed min spec reqs.
Since the game had a multiplayer aspect and would have large numbers of
players and space debris at once, i'm guessing option 1 was the reality.
Strangest of all, Freespace 2 was out about the same time, had even more
intense and cluttered areas, and huge fleets of ships and it played fine
on the minimum spec - except for a slight slowdown on the huge fleet
battles near the end. It also looked better than Tachyon.
Which is why I figured that Novalogic claimed basically the same
requirements as Freespace 2 (since it was their main competition) and
made sure their demo looked great on min spec.
As a result I haven't even _looked_ at a novalogic game since.
>Not that it cant be done. Ive seen demos that specifically tested the
>hardware and reported things like "your graphic card not supported" "not
>enough memory" "not enough hard drive space for the full game" even if the
>demo itself didnt need any of that. But as I said, its more that it takes
>an effort to do it than that its a carefully schemed plan to fool people
>into buying a game they cant run.
I wasn't even getting into testing like that.
But if the "demo" requires massively less resources than the actual
game, it's not much of a demo.
That makes as much sense as using Win98 as a demo of WinXP.
That's not even getting into the demos that feature things that got cut
from the actual game.
Xocyll
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in
>news:uhu8uvo65aikafe96...@4ax.com:
>
>> When's there going to be a requirement that the demo actually reflect
>> what it's supposedly demoing?
>
>Not likely. A demo is usually a trimmed down version of the game. To
>reflect all that the game can do would mean more of a full version of the
>game with some locks added. The problem with that is that the locks would
>get cracked out and cracked demos are downloaded with less guilt than
>cracked full games. Also less people would download a full sized demo than
>they would a tiny taste demo.
I can see your point, but I disagree that that is the only way.
Instead of using the smallest, most unpopulated area of the game, use a
crowded area as the demo - at least that is going to more accurately
reflect the system resources needed.
>It would be nice, But all in all more is ganed than lost by the present
>method
In some ways. But one of the things gained is sales to people who
wouldn't buy the game if the demo was accurate. IE Lionheart.
Or for me back when, Tachyon.
Russell Wallace
<gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:cm54uv0j7l90bhn30...@4ax.com:
>
>> EVERYONE should do what I do - download the warez version, and use
>> THAT as your demo.
>
>Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into empty
>buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to keep their
>stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
If you're going to make up analogies, what Mark is advocating is like
picking up a book in a shop, reading the first half dozen pages, then
either buying it or putting it back on the shelf.
(Now the people who say "This was crap so I'm not buying it, but I'm
keeping the pirate version" - that's the equivalent of saying "This
book is crap so I'm not buying it, I'll just stuff it under my jacket
and walk out with it".)
--
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace
Azzz1588
<kroa...@kroagnon.com> writes:
>free anonymous Internet.
How naieve of you......................
"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
Azzz1588
<drdp...@aol.com> writes:
>I honestly can't understand why you find the practice so offensive.
Because it is basically stealing !!
No other way around it. When one downloads a game from
that site, they are NOT paying for it !!
Azzz1588
>Seems you already are worked up...
He's still hoping that he will have sex at the party.
Gandalf Parker
news:123buvg2vu8rdt66h...@4ax.com:
> Instead of using the smallest, most unpopulated area of the game, use a
> crowded area as the demo - at least that is going to more accurately
> reflect the system resources needed.
>
Well pros and cons. After all, more sales are probably generated by showing
them a game they can win than in showing them a challenge. Believe me I
would much rather see the demo that tells me it will run on my machine AND
show me that it will be a challenge. But I can understand why that type of
demo might not generate as much sales as something that downloads small and
fast, loads up fast, runs fast, and shows me that I can be a champion in
this game. It shlocks but its probably true.
Gandalf Parker
Gandalf Parker
news:3fe598e2....@news.eircom.net:
>>Yeah and everyone should just shoplift their food, break into empty
>>buildings for a place to sleep, and take shopping carts to keep their
>>stuff in. You got any other great tips for us? :)
>
> If you're going to make up analogies, what Mark is advocating is like
> picking up a book in a shop, reading the first half dozen pages, then
> either buying it or putting it back on the shelf.
>
> (Now the people who say "This was crap so I'm not buying it, but I'm
> keeping the pirate version" - that's the equivalent of saying "This
> book is crap so I'm not buying it, I'll just stuff it under my jacket
> and walk out with it".)
Not bad. Not bad at all.
Hmmmmm but he isnt sending them to the book store. He is telling them about
the guy on the corner selling stolen copies of the book for almost nothing
(the best analogy I can think of at the moment) and saying they should
promise that if they like the book they will go to a real book store and
buy it at full price.
Gandalf Parker