F15 realism... let's talk more seriously...
°°° Gunslinger °°°
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:30:06 +0200, "David Pierron"
<dpie...@easynet.fr> wrote:
>A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
>managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
>_realistic_) on his back...
>He's got some pictures, just in case there are some unbelievers here ;-) ,
>at http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-24331/f15/
Listen folks,
DO NOT believe what this guy is trying to do.
Look at this URL:
http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-24331/f15/4.htm
Now, tell me what u see in the left hand corner?
See the directions on how to land?
Those are training missions.
In training mission Collisions are turned OFF.
SO therefor, of course you could *land* upside down.
This is the second post that you have tried to do this in.
I will not stand for someone trying to bash this sim, while using
false data.
SO Mr. Dperrion.. just stop this feabile attempt.
In regular missions and campaigns
you CANNOT land upside down...
BTW, do you work for some other company that is producing
a flight sim, or has produced a flight sim, and are just trying to
create a little trouble for the newcomers so they will see these and
think F-15 is bad?
You must have a good motive to even try to attempt this as you set
aside web space and all those cute worthless pics
to promote a problem that isn't even real.
Tell you what big boy, I'll trace your name, sense you have this odd
way of changing your e-mail address every time you post this crap,
and find out just who you are.
Aint it also convenient that "A friend of mine" told you this?
You don't even own the damn thing and you are trying to ruin
it for people who don't have it yet?
Wish Jane's could bust your balls for Slander and defamation of
character.
You are slime.
The best thing you can do is go crawl under your rock, and stay there.
(For the normal people in here, you may think I have gone too far on
this one, no, if this was the 1st time he has done this, then yeah,
but he has done this before, all he did was change his e-mail address,
and change the subject header.. and is doing it again)
°°° Gunslinger °°°
M. J. Iverson
David Pierron wrote:
>
> A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
> managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
> _realistic_) on his back...
It's called the definitive jet combat simulation, not the definitive jet
landing simulation. But I know, I wish landings would be modeled more
realistically as well. Let me tell ya though, the landing ease really
says nothing about the rest of the sim - believe me.
Oh, and how about Flanker? I thought those tough Russian planes were
able to land on really rough strips? Try and taxi off the runway a few
feet in that sim and you'll suddenly disintegrate in an explosion.
M. J. Iverson
M. J. Iverson
Hey G:
Landings are like this in normal missions too. Sorry pal - no
conspiracy theory.
M. J. Iverson
°°° Gunslinger °°° wrote:
>
> On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:30:06 +0200, "David Pierron"
> <dpie...@easynet.fr> wrote:
>
> >A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
> >managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
> >_realistic_) on his back...
M. J. Iverson
Looks like your're right. I tried specifically to land upside down and
blew up. I don't think that simple fact just makes everything OK
though. I mean, the sim could stand some major improvement in the damage
modeling when the wheels hit the deck. Though it appears you *can't*
land upside down, you can definitely mishandle your aircraft around the
runway - and even eventually turn the baby upside down and drive down
the runway at 200 knots on your vertical stabilizers. Not that I do
this *every* mission!
But seriously, the pucker factor just isn't there when it comes time to
land. As much as everyone says, "fly the damn thing correctly and you
won't have to worry about the inaccuracies..." I think even those guys
would end up liking more stringent requirements to pull off a successful
landing. After all, isn't landing *supposed* to be the hardest part of
flying? F-15 is a great sim, but when I'm on my final approach to land,
I'm pretty calm.
M. J. Iverson
> Ok.. Im back.. Now I have PROOF to back up what I say.
> Go to alt.binaries.pictures.military and look for the subject:
> >F-15 Proof that it DOES crash upside down
> with the filename Dumps.zip
> Its a two part message about 890k zipped.
>
> It has several screenshots attempting this very thing.
> Everytime was a crash.. You can not land upside down in realistic mode
> in single missions or the campaign.
>
> °°° Gunslinger °°°
Mike Evans
They intended it to work like that in TRAINING MISSIONS. (Collisions off)
That is where those pictures were taken from.
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net wrote in message
<6gp075$t...@argentina.earthlink.net>...
>So what was your friends point, that its a bug...? Or that F-15 isnt
>realistic because it has a bug...or that they intended it to work like
>that....?
>
>Shall we start..?
>
>PAPA DOC
>
Greg Cisko
David Pierron wrote in message <6goqsf$naa$1...@buggy.news.easynet.net>...
>A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
>managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
>_realistic_) on his back...
Well that guy has been around here for some time. I'm glad to know he
is a total fucking ass-hole. I'll be watching him now... hehe.
P.S. You are on shaky ground too. So watch it :-)
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
>He's got some pictures, just in case there are some unbelievers here ;-) ,
>at http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-24331/f15/
>
> -------
> //// \\\\ \
> \---------/ / \
> \ \ / / \ / \
> \\ // / \ / \
> \\ // \ / / \ David 'Zip' Pierron
> \O/ / \ / \\ \ _bad_ Su27 Flanker Pilot !
> + / / \ \
> / \ / \\ \ |||
> // \ (o -)
>---------------------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------
>
>
>
Greg Cisko
M. J. Iverson wrote in message <35302266...@badlands.nodak.edu>...
>Looks like your're right. I tried specifically to land upside down and
>blew up
DUH no shit. That guy who put those picks on that website is a loser...
Glad to meet another test pilot though. Papadoc has quite a few
now :-)
Greg Cisko
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net wrote in message
<6gpaqi$o...@argentina.earthlink.net>...
>Im embarrassed to admit but Trak Dah is a Flanker Pilot....you WOULD
Well he is hence forth a total fuck IMHO.
I think he is upset that F-15 kicks ass so well that he is looking for
any lame assed excuse to bash it. Since he is a fool he will be
treated as such.
FWIW, I don't think he is helping you flanker guys at all.
David Pierron
A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
_realistic_) on his back...
FLIGHTBASE
Or you could say: Your friend is a hell of a pilot , who knows how to
land a plane
with a case of beer down his throat, and walked away from it. :) ;)
H.m.n
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net
So what was your friends point, that its a bug...? Or that F-15 isnt
realistic because it has a bug...or that they intended it to work like
that....?
Shall we start..?
PAPA DOC
>A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
>managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
>_realistic_) on his back...
>He's got some pictures, just in case there are some unbelievers here ;-) ,
>at http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-24331/f15/
> -------
> //// \\\\ \
> \---------/ / \
> \ \ / / \ / \
> \\ // / \ / \
> \\ // \ / / \ David 'Zip' Pierron
> \O/ / \ / \\ \ _bad_ Su27 Flanker Pilot !
> + / / \ \
> / \ / \\ \ |||
> // \ (o -)
>---------------------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...<G>
pleg...@earthlink.net
°°° Gunslinger °°°
>Hey G:
>
>Landings are like this in normal missions too. Sorry pal - no
>conspiracy theory.
Give me a break..
You can not land upside down when you have the Realism set to
Realistic.
In Missions and Campaigns you cannot.
Oh hell.. I'll go do it, take some snap shots and post em on a web
site..
brb
°°° Gunslinger °°°
°°° Gunslinger °°°
>Hey G:
>
>Landings are like this in normal missions too. Sorry pal - no
>conspiracy theory.
Ok.. Im back.. Now I have PROOF to back up what I say.
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net
tsk tsk tsk.....kids nowadays....some can't think for themselves and
some can't post for themselves.
PAPA DOC
Infamous Flanker Pilot...
Pink Flamingo Extreme....
And Still President for Life of the Eat Baby Children of the Usenet
Society......and loving every bite.
Robin Lee
In article <6goqsf$naa$1...@buggy.news.easynet.net>,
David Pierron <dpie...@easynet.fr> wrote:
>A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
>managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
>_realistic_) on his back...
Setting aside the issue of whether this happens in training missions as
opposed to real missions...
...how do you people get yourselves into these kinds of situations,
anyway? Truth be told, my landing approaches are poor in the extreme --
I come in high and fast, stand on the speedbrakes on short final, and do a
lot of panicked jabbering on rollout when I realize that I'm quickly
running out of runway. A Golden Stick I most certainly am not. But even
I know that the blue part should be on top and the brown part should be
on the bottom (or at night, black on top, lights on bottom), and have thus
far managed to avoid landing on my helmet. Just how does this sort of
thing happen, anyway?
- Robin "afraid to ask how you guys do air-to-air refueling" Lee
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Robin J. Lee * YLS '99 amr...@netcom.com
Vulture's Row/State of the Russian Navy http://www.webcom.com/amraam
Claude Frederick Lumpkin
In article <35302266...@badlands.nodak.edu>,
I don't know, but I can't imagine it compares to dropping dumb bombs
on a target defended by SAMs and AAA, with no weasel support, and
AWACS screaming out "new contacts bearing 30 miles SW bullseye" when that's
where you are ;)
Yoss 8X
--
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net
Im embarrassed to admit but Trak Dah is a Flanker Pilot....you WOULD
can't do that then its unwise in the extreme to broadcast it to the
entire world....I mean we are supposed to be the elite of the elite
right...???? And if your gonna broadcast it to the entire world then at
least RTFML describing Training Missions....geez some of the Flanker
Crew reminds me of the gang that couldnt shoot straight. Im gonna enjoy
shooting their posts down....its been fun so far and promises to be even
more fun in the future.
Again BOTH sims are wonderful....why do simple minds INSIST ON
COMPARISONS.....and yes I know that I did it. For me its because it was
easier and I was lazy in posting. Then I discovered that it was LOTS
more effective to talk about the strengths of my sim then the negative
of a sim I didnt like. But it does take alot more work.....you actually
have to know the sim.....duh..!!!
Besides since when did this become anything more than a small group of
people who enjoy Hardcore sims...there arent enough of us around to do
anything but WELCOME each and every attempt at a Hardcore sim....hell I
go so far as to buy each sim that comes along and NEVER return them. To
me the small amount of hardcore sims produced is easy to buy...and the
support I give may allow more to be produced. Geez the way some people
act I fear that one day I may look long and hard for word of a new and
upcoming hardcore sim...and nothing will be coming. We CAN KILL THIS
HOBBY PEOPLE....its very possible. Some of the companies you think are
doing so well are not....support them or you too may be asking in a
year...where did all the sims go. Hey but you could always buy Raptor
F-22....but then Novalogic would laugh you out of the house if you
whined to them waaaaaaaaaa my missiles dont go as far as the book says
they are supposed to...waaaaaaaaaa.....
Does this mean that you cant give bug reports...HELL no...bug reports
are great....does this mean that you cant give wish reports...HELL
NO...they are great as well. But a certain realization that bugs are
part and parcel of our hobby is appreciated. Besides this sim has no
game stoppers...the bitchs and nits are not a big deal though they would
be better fixed.
Anyway sorry for the rant...but just getting the juices flowing for the
coming jihad.
PAPA DOC
>A Golden Stick I most certainly am not. But even
>I know that the blue part should be on top and the brown part should be
>on the bottom (or at night, black on top, lights on bottom), and have thus
>far managed to avoid landing on my helmet. Just how does this sort of
>thing happen, anyway?
>- Robin "afraid to ask how you guys do air-to-air refueling" Lee
>--
>___________________________________________________________________________
>Robin J. Lee * YLS '99 amr...@netcom.com
>Vulture's Row/State of the Russian Navy http://www.webcom.com/amraam
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Greg Cisko
°°° Gunslinger °°° wrote in message
<353218c9...@news.mindspring.com>...
>Ok.. Im back.. Now I have PROOF to back up what I say.
>Go to alt.binaries.pictures.military and look for the subject:
>>F-15 Proof that it DOES crash upside down
>with the filename Dumps.zip
>Its a two part message about 890k zipped.
You should resave the files as Jpegs and try again. I would download
a 50K file, but not a 890K. Check my F15 camel picture (one screenshot
10K) in that NG to get the main idea.
Nos V2.04
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:10:00 GMT, pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net wrote:
>Im embarrassed to admit but Trak Dah is a Flanker Pilot....you WOULD
>think he would know to land wheels down.....
(snip)
Holy shit....are you trying to do an impersonation of Stocky2?
--
Nos V2.04
To reply by email delete the word REMOVE from address.
pap...@ix.nospam.com
Im trying to work that into a compliment and am having a difficult
time....and you know how badly I deal with anything thats not a
compliment....<VBG>
PAPA DOC
>
>Holy shit....are you trying to do an impersonation of Stocky2?
>
>--
>Nos V2.04
>
>To reply by email delete the word REMOVE from address.
>
>
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...
pleg...@earthlink.net
enzo
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net wrote in article <6gpaqi$o...@argentina.earthlink.net>...
> Again BOTH sims are wonderful....why do simple minds INSIST ON
> COMPARISONS.....and yes I know that I did it. For me its because it was
> easier and I was lazy in posting. Then I discovered that it was LOTS
> more effective to talk about the strengths of my sim then the negative
> of a sim I didnt like. But it does take alot more work.....you actually
> have to know the sim.....duh..!!!
Comparisons are simply human nature. I don't mind comparing Su-27 to
F-15 or whatever (Heck, after about 15 minutes with F-15 I thought to myself,
"Holy Cow, I bet Papa Doc is going to go apesh*t over *this* game") However,
comparisons can be very destructive, too - and that's where I agree with you
that it can be the lazy way - and the blind way out.
> Besides since when did this become anything more than a small group of
> people who enjoy Hardcore sims...there arent enough of us around to do
> anything but WELCOME each and every attempt at a Hardcore sim....hell I
> go so far as to buy each sim that comes along and NEVER return them. To
> me the small amount of hardcore sims produced is easy to buy...and the
> support I give may allow more to be produced. Geez the way some people
> act I fear that one day I may look long and hard for word of a new and
> upcoming hardcore sim...and nothing will be coming. We CAN KILL THIS
> HOBBY PEOPLE....its very possible. Some of the companies you think are
> doing so well are not....support them or you too may be asking in a
> year...where did all the sims go. Hey but you could always buy Raptor
> F-22....but then Novalogic would laugh you out of the house if you
> whined to them waaaaaaaaaa my missiles dont go as far as the book says
> they are supposed to...waaaaaaaaaa.....
Papa Doc, you're right. There was a **very** real videogame crash in the 80's.
IMHO, we've been extremely lucky to have so many sims in '97 and '98. If
players are returning games because they don't like the cockpit colors, the
darkness of the sky, the lack of glowing turkeyfeathers, or (insert poor
excuse here) then we can certainly risk a crash of the hardcore sim category.
We *do* get away with voicing concerns to hardcore sim developers here
because they *are* trying to give us the most realistic thing possible. But if
the corporate will to make these kinds of games falters, we won't have much
to complain about at all before long.
<Attempt at a ranting soapbox analogy here>
You can compare combat sims to fighter jets themselves. Both are very
complicated pieces of work put together by very talented teams. Both
have an incredible number of moving parts (and if you don't think a program
has "moving parts", you probably aren't a programmer) which can develop
problems or imperfections under certain field conditions which don't show
up under laboratory conditions. But few fighters made by reputable
companies aren't worth owning after the company gets a chance to work
the worst bugs out. You can look at each of our jet fighters and claim that
it's defective and should be returned for a refund:
F-14 "It's alousy dogfighter and it's underpowered."
F-15 "It can't handle turning fights."
F-16 "It's survivability is lousy. Can't do high AoA manuevering"
F-18 "Too slow. Internal fuel storage is lousy."
F-111 "This is a FIGHTER??? BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!"
But then you overlook the F-14's prowess as a true interceptor, the
F-15's talent at all-conditions air superiority, the F-16's simplicity
and agility, the F-18's flexibility, and the F-111's ability to handle
deep strikes comparable to a Tornado. Certainly the occassional
spud will emerge, and everyone will have a personal favorite - but it's
very narrow minded to think that the skies only have room for your
favorite and simply turn your nose up at all the other fighters that
don't share the same features. It's even more narrow minded to
raise hell at the engineers for daring to make something with a
different set of priorities than your favorite happens to have. We have
the luxury to enjoy a variety of good simulations made by talented
people. Let's enjoy all the ones with thoughtful design and
programming, give some constructive feedback for the next one,
and move on. Merely focusing on the shortcomings of a sim (or jet) can
really prevent a player/pilot from appreciating what it *does* offer, and
just hurt the entire experience for player and designer.
<off soapbox analogy, asbestos pants locked firmly into place>
> Does this mean that you cant give bug reports...HELL no...bug reports
> are great....does this mean that you cant give wish reports...HELL
> NO...they are great as well. But a certain realization that bugs are
> part and parcel of our hobby is appreciated. Besides this sim has no
> game stoppers...the bitchs and nits are not a big deal though they would
> be better fixed.
Couldn't agree more.
> Anyway sorry for the rant...but just getting the juices flowing for the
> coming jihad.
That's okay. I suspect my rant is more harebrained than yours. ;o)
Maybe we're all just like the three blind men and the elephant. That
story comes to mind pretty often as I read this newsgroup (I've been
guilty of it a few times myself). It seems pointless to say that an
elephant makes a lousy spear, a poor snake, or a pathetic tree, when
what it *can* do is a damn fine job hauling some serious cargo or
knocking over something big and heavy. 8o)
Neil M.
Stocky2
>
>Holy shit....are you trying to do an impersonation of Stocky2?<BR>
That doesn't sound like something a friend would say, does it?
The real Stocky2. Accept no subsitute. Anyone hungry for humble pie?
Sto...@aol.com
pap...@ix.nospam.com
Yup I do it all the time, comparisons....but Ive taken to doing by
myself since so few people seem to be able to understand that Im just
referencing my experiences and not trying to place one over the other.
But in the end...Im wondering. Its always a bad idea to compare
women...they always seem to be upset with that...<VBG> Seems they much
prefer just enjoying them for what they are...I wonder if thats
something a few around here know.
PAPA DOC
PS BTW your thought to yourself was accurate....Im going apeshit over
this sim..much to the chagrin of the blind on the Flanker Listserv.
>
>Comparisons are simply human nature. I don't mind comparing Su-27 to
>F-15 or whatever (Heck, after about 15 minutes with F-15 I thought to myself,
>"Holy Cow, I bet Papa Doc is going to go apesh*t over *this* game") However,
>comparisons can be very destructive, too - and that's where I agree with you
>that it can be the lazy way - and the blind way out.
>
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
David Pierron
Listen, I hate answering to flames, but here I've got no choice...
°°° Gunslinger °°° wrote in message
<3533fe2f...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:30:06 +0200, "David Pierron"
>Listen folks,
>DO NOT believe what this guy is trying to do.
>Look at this URL:
>http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-24331/f15/4.htm
>Now, tell me what u see in the left hand corner?
>See the directions on how to land?
>Those are training missions.
>In training mission Collisions are turned OFF.
>SO therefor, of course you could *land* upside down.
>This is the second post that you have tried to do this in.
>I will not stand for someone trying to bash this sim, while using
>false data.
Maybe, but I'm pretty sure it's happening in 'normal' missions too.
>SO Mr. Dperrion.. just stop this feabile attempt.
>In regular missions and campaigns
>you CANNOT land upside down...
>BTW, do you work for some other company that is producing
>a flight sim, or has produced a flight sim, and are just trying to
>create a little trouble for the newcomers so they will see these and
>think F-15 is bad?
> You must have a good motive to even try to attempt this as you set
>aside web space and all those cute worthless pics
>to promote a problem that isn't even real.
I don't work for any company ; I'm just a hardcore flight-simmer, and as
such I like to raise the problems/bugs a good sim has.
>
>Tell you what big boy, I'll trace your name, sense you have this odd
>way of changing your e-mail address every time you post this crap,
>and find out just who you are.
Please, stop this 'conspiracy' theory, and get back to your beloved
X-files... I don't change my email just for sending crap ; btw this is my
third post to any NG so you see you're completely wrong.
>Aint it also convenient that "A friend of mine" told you this?
>You don't even own the damn thing and you are trying to ruin
>it for people who don't have it yet?
I've got it, and I like it (apart some bugs/dark areas) since the postman
gave it to me ...
>Wish Jane's could bust your balls for Slander and defamation of
>character.
Sure. Go have some law lessons, Mr 'WannabeLawyer' Gunslinger
>You are slime.
Thanks. It's a pure joy to be seen as slime by a poor sool like you.
>The best thing you can do is go crawl under your rock, and stay there.
Again, thanks for the advice ; will do, for sure.
>
>(For the normal people in here, you may think I have gone too far on
>this one, no, if this was the 1st time he has done this, then yeah,
>but he has done this before, all he did was change his e-mail address,
>and change the subject header.. and is doing it again)
> °°° Gunslinger °°°
I don't want to break your dream into small pieces... but I don't do (and
never did) that...
So the next time you'll want to flame someone, please check your arguments.
Again, I'm a very kind man, so I'll simply do as if you had never written
this post.
.---. .-----------
/ \ __ / ------
/ / \( )/ -----
////// ' \/ ` ---
//// / // : : ---
David 'Zip' Pierron, ||| // / / /` '--
Su27 Flanker pilot ! (o o) // //..\\
-------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo---------------UU----UU---------
°°° Gunslinger °°°
>Maybe, but I'm pretty sure it's happening in 'normal' missions too.
Nope.. Already have proof from myself and others that it doesn't work
in "normal" missions.
>I don't work for any company ; I'm just a hardcore flight-simmer, and as
>such I like to raise the problems/bugs a good sim has.
Hard core simmer huh? If your such a *hard core simmer* then you would
know you don't bash a sim based on something someone else has done
that you have never seen done.. BTW, if your so *hard core* then why
didn't you notice the fourth picture was a training mission?
If your such a *hard core simmer* why didn't you test his theory
first, before posting this crap on the net?
>Please, stop this 'conspiracy' theory, and get back to your beloved
>X-files... I don't change my email just for sending crap ; btw this is my
>third post to any NG so you see you're completely wrong.
Ok smart ass.. Is that a fact? really.. Well answer this.. How come on
the F-15 mailing list a "certain" person posted a message with the
SUbject Header: "Realism in F-15"
Here is "his" letter:
"Taken in Realistic mode, not by me, so i'm not sure. BUT the guy who
done those would have tried it in a real mission and not training
"We live in the air, we die in th fire..."
Flounder"
Odd isn't it.. Sounds almost like you.. Even the Subject of these two
letters is pretty damn close.. And what's this? Your both willing to
get on the NG and mailing list and state ludicrous ideas about a sim
that you didn't even try to replicate the "bug", that a "friend" owns?
Seems like a good conspiracy theory to me.
>So the next time you'll want to flame someone, please check your arguments.
I did check my arguments. In fact I went as far as wasting an hour of
my life testing my arguments. In fact I wasted another 15 minutes
posting the screenshots.. and now I have just wasted another 10
minutes trying to make you shut-up. You sir, are the one who needs to
check what he is saying.
°°° Gunslinger °°°
pap...@ix.nospam.com
Pitiful isnt it.....and I know all three of these Rocket
Scientists/Flight Test Engineers....they were rational before this
episode. Hell I thought that Trak Dah was one heck of a thorough pilot
before this....oh well.....assumptions and all that....
PAPA DOC
>
>I did check my arguments. In fact I went as far as wasting an hour of
>my life testing my arguments. In fact I wasted another 15 minutes
>posting the screenshots.. and now I have just wasted another 10
>minutes trying to make you shut-up. You sir, are the one who needs to
>check what he is saying.
>
>
>
> °°° Gunslinger °°°
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Greg Cisko
M. J. Iverson wrote in message <35305BC4...@badlands.nodak.edu>...
>What, are you drunk or something Cisko? If someone told me "DUH no
>shit" to my face, I'd whack 'em in the mouth.
OK maybe the prozac didn't kick in yet. But, how could you be
dumb enough to even try that? So you would smack someone
for a "DUH no shit"? Huh...
That is good to know though.
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
>
>M. J. Iverson
>
>Greg Cisko wrote:
>>
>> M. J. Iverson wrote in message <35302266...@badlands.nodak.edu>...
>> >Looks like your're right. I tried specifically to land upside down and
>> >blew up
>>
>> DUH no shit. That guy who put those picks on that website is a loser...
>>
>> Glad to meet another test pilot though. Papadoc has quite a few
>> now :-)
>>
Nos V2.04
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:23:41 GMT, pap...@ix.nospam.com wrote:
>Im trying to work that into a compliment and am having a difficult
>time....and you know how badly I deal with anything thats not a
>compliment....<VBG>
>
>PAPA DOC
It's just that the post was so long,I figured you must have been
taking lessons from Stocky2 on how to say something simple, but still
have lot's of content.
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net
hehehe yea I should have just said he was a fool and an idiot and left
it at that....<VBG> But then many around here expect a certain style
from me and dont want to upset the locals....
PAPA DOC
>It's just that the post was so long,I figured you must have been
>taking lessons from Stocky2 on how to say something simple, but still
>have lot's of content.
>--
>Nos V2.04
>To reply by email delete the word REMOVE from address.
>
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...<G>
pleg...@earthlink.net
Stocky2
Now I'll take some lessons from Nos and have no content while keeping it
simple.
We can start with a rooster on a peaked roof laying eggrolls.
Sto...@aol.com
Bill Castello
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net wrote in article
<6gp63i$c...@argentina.earthlink.net>...
> PAPA DOC
> Infamous Flanker Pilot...
> Pink Flamingo Extreme....
> And Still President for Life of the Eat Baby Children of the Usenet
> Society......and loving every bite.
<Tongue in cheek>
The mental imagery you conjured up with this is truly stirring. I really
think you're on to the
next major Net organization.... Please tell me where to send the cash to
join up.... I want to
do my part <Said with true StarShip Troopers zeal...>
<tongue out of cheek>
<grins>
Tasty12
CtxNighthawk
No, you cannot land upside down outside of the training missions in expert
mode.
--
<CTX> Nighthawk
Rename nospam to com to reply
-I'am not a real Fighter Pilot, but I play one on PC.-
M. J. Iverson wrote in message <35300493...@badlands.nodak.edu>...
>Hey G:
>
>Landings are like this in normal missions too. Sorry pal - no
>conspiracy theory.
>
>M. J. Iverson
Greg Cisko
TrakDah wrote in message <892420234.657363@mn8>...
>I did this out of curiosity. And suddenly everybody calls me a liar.
>As a matter of fact: Collisions are NOT off in Training missions.
I don't think you are a liar. I just think you are totally full of
shit for bringing something like that up in the first place.
I suppose you have aced the A/A refueling already? Right?
Jerry Morelock
The rant's perfectly ok, and I even agree with you except for one little
teensy thing--uh, Papa? Does this mean we have to support iMagic, too?
Pleeeaaasssee say no!
Jerry Morelock
Some of the companies you think are
>doing so well are not....support them or you too may be asking in a
>year...where did all the sims go. Hey but you could always buy Raptor
>F-22....but then Novalogic would laugh you out of the house if you
>whined to them waaaaaaaaaa my missiles dont go as far as the book says
>they are supposed to...waaaaaaaaaa.....
>
>Does this mean that you cant give bug reports...HELL no...bug reports
>are great....does this mean that you cant give wish reports...HELL
>NO...they are great as well. But a certain realization that bugs are
>part and parcel of our hobby is appreciated. Besides this sim has no
>game stoppers...the bitchs and nits are not a big deal though they would
>be better fixed.
>
>Anyway sorry for the rant...but just getting the juices flowing for the
>coming jihad.
>
>PAPA DOC
TrakDah
It does
Sorry
It really does
/TrakDah
°°° Gunslinger °°° wrote in message
<3534b203...@news.mindspring.com>...
TrakDah
yes you can
goto my site again and look at the new files. Also try downloading the file
I used for it.
Instructions on site.
/TrakDah
CtxNighthawk wrote in message ...
TrakDah
Oh come on. Don't give me that. You too have sometime thought "wonder if"
and explored. I did and found this incredible bug
Let me quote the Jane's F15 pages:
"Feel the intensity of raw speed
F-15's groundbreaking flight model is based on data the US Air force itself
uses to model aircraft characteristics. Hug the ground at mach 1 or scream
above the clouds at 50,000 feet. You'll feel every G with the F-15's ground
breaking flight model." http://www.f-15.com/
I did this out of curiosity. And suddenly everybody calls me a liar.
As a matter of fact: Collisions are NOT off in Training missions.
/TrakDah
Greg Cisko wrote in message <6gqk11$m...@examiner.concentric.net>...
>M. J. Iverson wrote in message <35305BC4...@badlands.nodak.edu>...
>>What, are you drunk or something Cisko? If someone told me "DUH no
>>shit" to my face, I'd whack 'em in the mouth.
>
>OK maybe the prozac didn't kick in yet. But, how could you be
>dumb enough to even try that? So you would smack someone
>for a "DUH no shit"? Huh...
>
>That is good to know though.
>
>--
>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
>
>gci...@concentric.net
>
>>
>>M. J. Iverson
>>
>>Greg Cisko wrote:
>>>
>>> M. J. Iverson wrote in message <35302266...@badlands.nodak.edu>...
>>> >Looks like your're right. I tried specifically to land upside down and
>>> >blew up
>>>
>>> DUH no shit. That guy who put those picks on that website is a loser...
>>>
>>> Glad to meet another test pilot though. Papadoc has quite a few
>>> now :-)
>>>
Nos V2.04
I may be a man of few words, but, I get my point across quite
effectively. Unlike you,who is a big friggin' windbag who posts thesis
on every subject, but,actually ends up saying very little that anyone
wants to read. Whenever I read one of your posts I just use the
techniques applied by speed readers. Instead of reading the big words
though I read the small words like "and, the, or" etc. That way I get
just as much info from the post except it's a lot quicker.
CtxNighthawk
I downloaded your map, and also created one of my own. It is confirmed, you
can land upside down.
But not on the runway.
Now what's the point of all this?
Should we all boycott Janes because they released a less than perfect
product? F15 is an immersive sim unlike any before it, why spend all this
time and energy tearing it apart?
--
<CTX> Nighthawk
Rename nospam to com to reply
-I'am not a real Fighter Pilot, but I play one on PC.-
TrakDah wrote in message <892420064.239756@mn8>...
TrakDah
Please don't call people stuff you can't stand up for.
I would never call anyone on the list "a total fuck" coz I don't know them
to be that.
You can agree to disagree, or have an argument. But for someone to be a
total fuck takes, well, shows me you ran out of arguments.
But on the other hand, if you concider me a total fuck, what the heck do I
care? I know what I do, where I stand and when I'm right I am, and the times
I'm not I appologise. This time I was proven right. Thus no apology.
And BTW: I would apologise to someone calling me a total fuck anyway I
guess.
/TD
Greg Cisko wrote in message <6gpdc5$d...@examiner.concentric.net>...
>pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net wrote in message
><6gpaqi$o...@argentina.earthlink.net>...
>>Im embarrassed to admit but Trak Dah is a Flanker Pilot....you WOULD
>
>Well he is hence forth a total fuck IMHO.
>
>I think he is upset that F-15 kicks ass so well that he is looking for
>any lame assed excuse to bash it. Since he is a fool he will be
>treated as such.
>
>FWIW, I don't think he is helping you flanker guys at all.
TrakDah
oh, just shut up will ya?
Don't like me if you don't but keep it to yourself OK?
man.... Sometimes I wonder if we're all 4 years old...
/TD
Greg Cisko wrote in message <6gpcrs$c...@examiner.concentric.net>...
>David Pierron wrote in message <6goqsf$naa$1...@buggy.news.easynet.net>...
>>A friend of mine, Robert 'TrakDah' Borjesson recently told me that he
>>managed to land the F15 (yes, the new one, from Janes, which is so
>>_realistic_) on his back...
>
>Well that guy has been around here for some time. I'm glad to know he
>is a total fucking ass-hole. I'll be watching him now... hehe.
>
>P.S. You are on shaky ground too. So watch it :-)
>
>--
>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
>
>gci...@concentric.net
>
>>He's got some pictures, just in case there are some unbelievers here ;-) ,
>>at http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-24331/f15/
>>
>> -------
>> //// \\\\ \
>> \---------/ / \
>> \ \ / / \ / \
>> \\ // / \ / \
>> \\ // \ / / \ David 'Zip' Pierron
>> \O/ / \ / \\ \ _bad_ Su27 Flanker Pilot !
>> + / / \ \
>> / \ / \\ \ |||
>> // \ (o -)
>>---------------------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Badboy
In article <6gpaqi$o...@argentina.earthlink.net>,
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net writes
>Besides since when did this become anything more than a small group of
>people who enjoy Hardcore sims...there arent enough of us around to do
>anything but WELCOME each and every attempt at a Hardcore sim....hell I
>go so far as to buy each sim that comes along and NEVER return them. To
>me the small amount of hardcore sims produced is easy to buy...and the
>support I give may allow more to be produced. Geez the way some people
>act I fear that one day I may look long and hard for word of a new and
>upcoming hardcore sim...and nothing will be coming. We CAN KILL THIS
>HOBBY PEOPLE....its very possible. Some of the companies you think are
>doing so well are not....support them or you too may be asking in a
>year...where did all the sims go.
Kinda reminds me of Jack Nicholson's last speech from Mars Attacks <g>.
Anyways, well said that man!!
Leon "Badboy" Smith
Greg Cisko
TrakDah wrote in message <892465885.42355@nn1>...
>oh, just shut up will ya?
Right.
>Don't like me if you don't but keep it to yourself OK?
Nope don't think so, sorry.
>man.... Sometimes I wonder if we're all 4 years old...
You are *TRYING* to land an F-15 on your head, and you are
calling other people a 4 year old? That is quite funny.
BTW, you are not a totaly fuck strictly for trying to land on your
head in F-15 (even though some may argue that). IMHO you
get this supreme honor for trying to bash F-15 and push Flanker
up everyones ass as a realistic sim. On that point you can screw
yourself. Other than that, I guess you are an OK guy :-)
pap...@ix.nospam.com
eeeee...I knew you were around somewhere....you might want to keep an
eye out here I think its about to get fun.
PAPA DOC
>Kinda reminds me of Jack Nicholson's last speech from Mars Attacks <g>.
>
>Anyways, well said that man!!
>
>Leon "Badboy" Smith
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...
pleg...@earthlink.net
TrakDah
Hmm
see
Now this is getting close to the reality. Now we can start talking. But not
entirelly, coz since I'm a fuck I talk with my ass!
But never mind that, just picture yourself being spoken to by my ass and
I'll be OK. ;-) (sorry, couldn't resist this one - no pun! seriously!)
Now - to the point.
>You are *TRYING* to land an F-15 on your head, and you are
>calling other people a 4 year old? That is quite funny.
Yes.
I did.
Both of the above.
I call you (us?) 4 year old coz it makes no sence calling each other names.
It's not constructive and makes you stand out like someone out of arguments.
And it's not very polite, all mums teach their 4 year olds that.
And... It's fun playing with the sim. And it's an excellent sim at that. If
you look carefully you will not see me say otherwise anywhere anytime in
anyplace.
The ane and only comment I've done sofar is: you can land upside down and it
looks real cool.
I have not said this makes (read on please) it a bad sim.
Others have, I haven't.
But let me go on a bit longer OK? Please?
>BTW, you are not a totaly fuck strictly for trying to land on your
>head in F-15 (even though some may argue that). IMHO you
>get this supreme honor for trying to bash F-15 and push Flanker
>up everyones ass as a realistic sim. On that point you can screw
>yourself. Other than that, I guess you are an OK guy :-)
I didn't try to bash F15 and push Sue. I really didn't. Even though I lately
(too late) realize that this is what people saw! let me explain.
I found the bug, LOL-ed and ROFL-ed alot, and did a few HTM-pages. On the
last one as a last line I added a link to Sue pages saying "click here fo a
real sim ;-)"
Oh, yes, there _was_ a smily there. But did you see it? Do you think anyone
see the small smiley? No. And my mistake was believing that you would. Tell
you the truth: not even my closest friends saw it :-(
But then the shit hits the fan... And somehow I expected it to so I had told
myself to stay clear. As a side note you'll see I didn't post the link
anywhere on here. But that's of lesser intrest really.
What did disturb me was you lot (yes all of you - even those that know me)
starting to state "This is in training with no crashes." Well yes it's in
training, but no, there is no such thing as no crashes in training at expert
mode. And NO ONE who said that even cared to check that simple fact first.
So, I get flamed for telling lies.
Then I go off and do it again - in a newly built mission. Not to upset
anyone, but to show it's really possible even in normal missions. And it's
quite simple - alot easier than mid-air refueling to pick your own
comparison. The "instructions" are on the last page.
What I _did_ say, and I stand for that is the "blah blah blah realism,
blahblah blah Military specs" bit.
It _has_ come to a point where Jane's /EA say one thing and that's the
truth.
But guess what?
I like F15. I've been flying it all day today. Campaign, single missions
etc... And I can still land top-down. Do you think I do that?
Another note: have I said Sue is flawless? I know that the link (if you
don't see the smiley) makes it look that way. But no I haven't.
What I can be quoted having said is: add the best of Sue with the best of
F15 and you end up with a heck of a sim. That sim isn't here yet, so I play
both!
But please Greg, do read back on any of my postings. I promiss you won't
find me stating Sue is better or worse anywhere.
And a last point: thank you for the "Other than that, I guess you are an OK
guy :-)"
Regards
/TrakDah
Greg Cisko
TrakDah wrote in message <892498839.282625@mn8>...
>Now this is getting close to the reality. Now we can start talking. But not
>entirelly, coz since I'm a fuck I talk with my ass!
If you say so, it is OK with me.
>But never mind that, just picture yourself being spoken to by my ass and
Hey no problem. I've had that mental picture for the past few posts of yours
>I call you (us?) 4 year old coz it makes no sence calling each other names.
>It's not constructive and makes you stand out like someone out of
arguments.
>And it's not very polite, all mums teach their 4 year olds that.
I agree. Me calling you names was not polite. It also wasn't polite imho
to bash F15 and point us to a real sim (flanker).
>And... It's fun playing with the sim. And it's an excellent sim at that. If
>you look carefully you will not see me say otherwise anywhere anytime in
>anyplace.
Uh huh.
>I didn't try to bash F15 and push Sue. I really didn't. Even though I
lately
OK we have a *REAL* politican here. Wow...
>(too late) realize that this is what people saw! let me explain.
>I found the bug, LOL-ed and ROFL-ed alot, and did a few HTM-pages. On the
>last one as a last line I added a link to Sue pages saying "click here fo a
>real sim ;-)"
>Oh, yes, there _was_ a smily there. But did you see it? Do you think anyone
Oh I see, if you have a smiley (which you admit no one saw) then everything
is just OK. Well excuse me! My humble apologies.
(I guess I should start using smilies when I use colorful metaphors).
Nice explanation though. I'm sure someone bought it.
---
TrakDah
Your choice not to believe me this time either. And I could foresee this
reaction. But well... What can I say?
BTW: some did see the smiley. But no one really _saw_ it. But that's another
storry...
/TrakDah
Greg Cisko wrote in message <6gu1hp$6...@examiner.concentric.net>...
Stocky2
Then we have discovered why you seem to miss all points stated by anyone.>
>though I read the small words like "and, the, or" etc. That way I
There is more to life than and the or- some of the big words (more than 4
letters) actually can give new meaning to what you read
.>
except it's a lot quicker.<BR>
If you want "quicker" do sex. If you want meaning read all the words including
the big ones.
>
>wants to read. Whenever I read one of your posts I just use the<BR>
>techniques applied by speed
If you find no meaning in what I say you can get even quicker still by just
skipping them- I don't need your ingratitude for my correspondance and you can
have more free time on your hands to denegrate someone else. Maybe on ver 5.0
you can read with the big boys and actually learn something instead of just
being nasty.
>
>I may be a man of few words, but, I get my point across quite<BR>
The important thing is the content not the word count. The only point you get
across is that you are a self proclaimed ass-hole- who would disagree with
that?
> big friggin' windbag who posts thesis<BR>
>on every subject, but,actually ends up saying very little that anyone<BR>
English lit teacher taught me to expand on my ideas lest the subject end up not
well covered. How much you understand is a reflection on your education and
comprehension. Since I am a respiratory therapist I regard wind as a good
thing- I use a windbag to save people's lives. If someone were to cut off your
wind, see if you wouldn't fight like hell to get it back- you wouldn't even be
thinking about the "friggin'" part until you did- be gratefull for wind- it
keeps you alive and stops the grass from growing over you. No extra charge for
the thesis.
Sto...@aol.com
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net
hehehe....well they could help me out a little here and at least make
sure the 3dfx portion works...couldnt they. But truly I still own iF-22
and back in the back of my mind wish that one day they would fix it.
Cause even though I found out I dont like flying a F-22 the comms were
very cool.
PAPA DOC
>The rant's perfectly ok, and I even agree with you except for one little
>teensy thing--uh, Papa? Does this mean we have to support iMagic, too?
>Pleeeaaasssee say no!
>Jerry Morelock
> Some of the companies you think are
>>doing so well are not....support them or you too may be asking in a
>>year...where did all the sims go. Hey but you could always buy Raptor
>>F-22....but then Novalogic would laugh you out of the house if you
>>whined to them waaaaaaaaaa my missiles dont go as far as the book says
>>they are supposed to...waaaaaaaaaa.....
>>
>>Does this mean that you cant give bug reports...HELL no...bug reports
>>are great....does this mean that you cant give wish reports...HELL
>>NO...they are great as well. But a certain realization that bugs are
>>part and parcel of our hobby is appreciated. Besides this sim has no
>>game stoppers...the bitchs and nits are not a big deal though they would
>>be better fixed.
>>
>>Anyway sorry for the rant...but just getting the juices flowing for the
>>coming jihad.
>>
>>PAPA DOC
Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...<G>
pleg...@earthlink.net
Jerry Morelock
Well, I can't think of ANYTHING I've ever tried so hard to make work. I
even bit on the do-nothing-fix-nothing patches, convincing myself that they
were surely helping a *little*. Pretty much over it now, though. And even
though I've stated otherwise, I'd probably still consider an iMagic sim, but
you can bet your ass that I'll never be on one of their pre-release order
lists like I was for iF-22. They only get a chance at any more of my money
after earning many positive Usenet postings and reviews.
Jerry Morelock
pleg...@earthlink.nospam.net wrote in message
<6h0kq8$1...@argentina.earthlink.net>...