Sierra SUCKS!!!!!!
Joonas Linkola,Lappeenranta
Sierra sucks? Why? Ask me for my opinion!! Mail me!!!
SSS I EEEEE RRRR RRRR AAA SSS U U CCCC K K SSS
S S I E R R R R A A S S U U C K K S S
S I E R R R R A A S U U C K K S
SSS I EEE RRRR RRRR AAAAA SSS U U C KK SSS
S I E R R R R A A S U U C K K S
S S I E R R R R A A S S U U C K K S S
SSS I EEEEE R R R R A A SSS UUU CCCC K K SSS
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ Joonas Linkola link...@freenet.hut.fi @
@ http://members.tripod.com/~linkola/ @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Kara Johnson
Yeah, I can agree with that! All I can say is...well, um, they didn't
*always* suck! :-)
Kate Ashley
Kara Johnson wrote:
Yes, I agree too with both statements. It's a pity they've grown bigger and away from
their customer base. I am sure they must have connections with Bill Gates too because
they force you to buy his software to run their games. Kate
Ken Williams
I disagree.
-Ken
Kate Ashley
Oh yes Sierra does. They have sold out to the money and no longer care
about their loyal customers. Kate Ashley
RoyBoy
Ken Williams wrote:
>
> I disagree.
>
> -Ken
Atta way Ken! People love to pick on success. Overall Sierra has done
and continues to do great things for all gamers.
Grow up folks... a few bad experiences, with a bad employee don't make
for a bad company, especially when you look at how much business Sierra
does and how many people enjoy their games.
royboy
(not affiliated with Sierra in any way, shape or form)
Kara Johnson
In response to what you(uh, you did post it--right?) posted on
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure...
Ken,
Well...I would be as blunt as that Joonas-guy--making ASCII art out of
his opinions wasn't necessary--but Kate and him aren't wrong. I can
point out a few of Sierra's failings--IF your willing to listen. I
refuse, though, to post a bunch of slams on a newsgroup for all to see!
It actually proves what Kate said--that you no longer care about your
loyal customers opinions--when you say "I disagree" instead of asking
*why* they think Sierra hasn't been up to par in the last few years or
so.
If you didn't post that on the newsgroup, I'm feeling really silly
about now...
Sincerely,
Kara
PS For anyone that reads this, go to
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~larme/phantas.html for a HUGE Phantas site,
and http://home.earthlink.net/~dandavid for an extensive review of GK 2!
Ken Williams wrote:
>
> I disagree.
>
> -Ken
>
Sven
[Kate Ashley <Sham...@ix.netcom.com>,
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure]:
>Oh yes Sierra does. They have sold out to the money and no longer care
>about their loyal customers. Kate Ashley
>
They promised us QfG5, didn't they? Hmm? Methinks that's just
_something_.
Now, if we could get a game in the same vein as Camelot/Longbow
again... <dream on>...
Sven
Kate Ashley
RoyBoy wrote:
>
> Ken Williams wrote:
> >
> > I disagree.
> >
> > -Ken
>
> and continues to do great things for all gamers.
>
> Grow up folks... a few bad experiences, with a bad employee don't make
> for a bad company, especially when you look at how much business Sierra
> does and how many people enjoy their games.
>
> royboy
> (not affiliated with Sierra in any way, shape or form)
Not just ill mannered sales staff, but too many bugs in the games now.
I am constantly downloading patches.
Kate
Ken Williams
Kate:
How could you possibly believe this? Why would any company do such a
thing? What can I do to convince you this isn't true?
-Ken
Kenneth Kerschner
> >about their loyal customers. Kate Ashley
> >
> _something_.
>
> Now, if we could get a game in the same vein as Camelot/Longbow
> again... <dream on>...
>
> Sven
Ken Williams
All:
When someone says "Sierra Sucks", I'm not sure how to respond. Obviously
they've bought some game that they didn't like. It is impossible to
please 100% of the people 100% of the time. We will ship over 8 million
games this year. We offer a 100% satisfaction or your money back
warranty on every single game, and book almost no refunds each year. I'm
not aware of any competitor who has as liberal of a policy, and highly
suspect that most couldn't afford it. Contrary to what some say, we do
build great products. I am extremely proud to work for Sierra, and there
is no company in this world I'd rather work for. I have trouble
believing that we would consistently be #1 were we shipping bad product.
That doesn't mean we can't improve. I am this companies biggest critic.
People here complain that I am quick with negative comments but never
get around to patting them on the back. This is a fair critique. I am a
perfectionist. If something says Sierra on the front, it drives me crazy
if it isn't totally perfect. No matter how good we do, I am always
convinced there is a way to do better. I do read the comments on us that
appear on the boards, and they show up in email to our managers almost
every day. I am compulsive about trying to improve things. If any
company ever ships a perfect product, I want it to be Sierra.
Lastly, people should keep in mind that Sierra is not a company as much
as it is a collection of highly impassioned people. Because we are #1,
we have been able to attract many of the industry's best developers.
Each game that we release represents 1 to 2 years of a 5 to 20 person
team's life. Whole careers are made or broken by working on a game that
sells well. I cannot over stress how hard our people work on these
games, and how much of them goes in. We are not a machine into which
money flows and games magically pop out. Thats not how the system works.
Our people care about their products, and put their souls into them.
Occasionally a game is produced that doesn't find its market, but
overall, I'd match our record against any other companies.
Sorry to sound defensive ... as I said at the beginning, it's a hard
message to respond to.
Thanks - Ken
Sunny
I wish to apologize to Sierra and Ken Williams for those few who don't have
the decency to even explain why they think "Sierra S**ks". This newsgroup
is usually a bunch of great people who love to play games. They're here
to seek reviews or help for games, or to give reviews or help. If there's
a bad review to be given it's usually done with politeness and for the most
part said stressing the fact that the review is given IMHO.
Please do not judge this newsgroup by those few who haven't a clue.
IMHO,
Bren
> <snipped some really dumb stuff by some members of this group who haven't a clue>
Sunny
Why don't you check www.sierra.com and find out what they are doing
about QG5. You might find out when and what it's all about.
Kara Johnson
Hey! Why is everyone trashing MOI? I wasn't even the original writer of
the message--I just said "I agree!" If you want to flame and/or spam
someone, trash the person who STARTED the damn thing--not me! I don't
want to be slammed 'cuz we all stated our opinions! Everyones entitled
to their OWN opinion, and no one who does so deserves to be flamed and
spammed like we did!
And, Glenn is correct! The WHOLE computer industry is corrupt! In fact,
the whole damn WORLD is corrupt!
We did tell him why we thought Sierra wasn't up to par(I *don't* think
that they "suck"!:-), but we did it through E-mail instead of starting
another asinine thread of people bitching at each other for idiotic
reasons!
C'mon people, be rational! Haven't you EVER stated an opinion--anytime?
Haven't you EVER made a mistake? Done something you regretted A LOT?
Lord, I'm only 15--I should be allowed to make silly mistakes!
I'd like to say I'm sorry to Ken Williams for slamming Sierra on a
public newsgroup. I'll remember to neglect stating my stupid opinions in
the future!
Aye, aye, aye! I'll need a few valiums after THIS experience!
Kara
idleeric
RoyBoy wrote:
>
> Ken Williams wrote:
> >
> > I disagree.
> >
> > -Ken
>
> Atta way Ken! People love to pick on success. Overall Sierra has done
> and continues to do great things for all gamers.
>
> Grow up folks... a few bad experiences, with a bad employee don't make
> for a bad company, especially when you look at how much business Sierra
> does and how many people enjoy their games.
>
> royboy
> (not affiliated with Sierra in any way, shape or form)
this is not a snap at trollbait ... hopefully, a whole chain of
flamefire will be preempted:
the gamebiz has gotten rotten as $$ performance aka "the bottom line"
has pushed aside the pioneering element (early microprose/sierra/qqp -
anyone remember them?) who mainstreamed gaming ... as ever more powerful
hardware invades the den & homeoffice, flash has replaced substance, &
greed has pushed out genius ... trashing sierra is pointless, since a
few small cos. aside (my current fav - New World Computing), the whole
industry sucks ....
Scott Amspoker
Kara Johnson <kjoh...@ncinter.net> wrote:
> It actually proves what Kate said--that you no longer care about your
>loyal customers opinions--when you say "I disagree" instead of asking
>*why* they think Sierra hasn't been up to par in the last few years or
>so.
Frankly, I think Ken's terse response was far more than the original
posting deserved. I learned long ago not to ponder the motivations of a
troller.
Scott Amspoker | Check out my adventure
sc...@basis.com | game reviews at:
http://www.rt66.com/sda| http://www.rt66.com/sda/rv.htm
Led Mirage
In article <32a832d9...@news.sn.no>, Sven <sv...@sn.no> wrote:
>
>Now, if we could get a game in the same vein as Camelot/Longbow
>again... <dream on>...
Actually, I was hoping they'd make another Laura Bow detective mystery
(minus the chase and tighten up the overall design). I love the charm of
the character (LB) in the early part of the game and the time period. Not
to mention, it has one of the best music score anywhere (it sounds
amazing on my GUS).
Led Mirage
In article <32A281...@ix.netcom.com>,
Kate Ashley <Sham...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Oh yes Sierra does. They have sold out to the money and no longer care
>about their loyal customers. Kate Ashley
If what Sierra is doing is "selling out", then I hope they keep doing it.
For some strange, odd reason, I almost always have FUN playing a Sierra
adventure (those Myst clones are the exception). Yes even Phantasmagoria.
I just love blood and guts. The thing is, playing a Sierra adventure is
an experience, rather than just solving mind-numbing puzzles. I've played
Gabriel Knight abuot 5 times now. I almost know what I need to do on
which day. But yet, I find myself keep going back to it (its just a darn
good adventure). They don't always come up with the best games, but you
know what to expect from their "house brands" at least, and have a jolly
good time.
Kate Ashley
Ken,
I recall ordering games from Coarsegold when the staff were in a trailer and didn't even
have computers. The women were friendly and actually recalled you if you ordered often
enough. I wrote to Susan Walls, I've forgotten what about, and she very nicely sent me
a coupon for a free game. The staff were far more responsive and made you feel valued.
I have called Washington, have used your BBS (now defunct? Shame because I liked it)
and have written, faxed and emailed you and Roberta re the disastrous decision to put
KQ7 out for Windows only. I never ever got a reply, not even a postcard acknowledging
receipt. It was obviously important to me as I tried various methods to find out why
this decision was made. When I asked a Sierra rep in Washington why this game was not
in DOS, the reply involved "there are plenty of other game companies out there play
their games." I believe I mentioned this in the letter. This really gives me the
feeling Sierra still cares.
I find that Sierra now makes game expecting people to have the latest software/hardware
especially Microsoft stuff. This really annoys me when you do not have to do this. I
really like the various Quest series and am angered when I am unnecessarily forced to
buy software so I may play a game.
BTW I wish the actor you chose to play Gabriel Knight didn't remind me of Kato Kalin (or
what ever OJ's resident in the guest house is called.) I preferred the animated
version.
If you care to scan your registration files you will see I have many, many Sierra games,
in fact some I've not even yet registered.
May you don't see this Ken because you are the owner not the customer. I doubt your
staff run to tell you the problems and complaints.
Kate
> Kate:
>
> How could you possibly believe this? Why would any company do such a
> thing? What can I do to convince you this isn't true?
>
> -Ken
>
Kate Ashley
> >Oh yes Sierra does. They have sold out to the money and no longer care
> >about their loyal customers. Kate Ashley
>
> For some strange, odd reason, I almost always have FUN playing a Sierra
> adventure (those Myst clones are the exception). Yes even Phantasmagoria.
> I just love blood and guts. The thing is, playing a Sierra adventure is
> an experience, rather than just solving mind-numbing puzzles. I've played
> Gabriel Knight abuot 5 times now. I almost know what I need to do on
> which day. But yet, I find myself keep going back to it (its just a darn
> good adventure). They don't always come up with the best games, but you
> know what to expect from their "house brands" at least, and have a jolly
> good time.
Yes you do once you've loaded enough patches to get them to work, and
had to restart the game who knows how many times. Sierra didn't used to
be like this. Kate
Kate Ashley
If you are referring to me as a troller you are very wrong. Kate
Kate Ashley
I agree. I really loved the first Clara Bow. Kate
JP/RK
I e-mailed this guy and he never got back to me....what the heck
is all of this about, exactly?
Romi
--=20
"In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry
and been widely regarded as a bad move."
-- Douglas Adams
RoyBoy
> Scott Amspoker wrote:
> > Frankly, I think Ken's terse response was far more than the original
> > posting deserved. I learned long ago not to ponder the motivations of a
> > troller.
> >
> > Scott Amspoker | Check out my adventure
> > sc...@basis.com | game reviews at:
> > http://www.rt66.com/sda| http://www.rt66.com/sda/rv.htm
>
> If you are referring to me as a troller you are very wrong. Kate
Don't be so sensitive Kate, the original poster was:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ Joonas Linkola link...@freenet.hut.fi
@
@ http://members.tripod.com/~linkola/ @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
There was nothing inappropriate with your responses in this thread.
royboy
Lynda Thornton
In article <32A245...@seanet.com>, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com>
writes
>I disagree.
>
There was another 'heated debate' about Sierra on this newsgroup
recently, to which I contributed, as although I have played and enjoyed
many Sierra games, I feel that the issue of quality control and testing
of products by games companies is a vitally important and often
neglected part of their process, particularly by Sierra.
My comment at that time was that after having played a wide range of
games made by a wide range of companies, in my experience I have found
it to be more often the case that trouble will occur playing a Sierra
game than most others. We have a good quality, up-to-date PC with
standard components which my husband also uses for work (he works in the
computer industry). We have played games by LucasArts, Microprose,
Electronic Arts, Epic, Westwood, Broderbund, Access amongst others, and,
of course, many, many by Sierra. Of ALL these games, we have never
encountered as many problems running (or trying to run) a game as
consistently as with Sierra. We have been forced to reload, replay and
sometimes reinstall games and start again from scratch, sometimes after
having played an enormous portion of the game - this is extremely
frustrating and detracts from any enjoyment. In my opinion, the
problems are caused because Sierra do not have a thorough enough testing
policy before release. Some examples:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gabriel Knight 1 - many errors, the worst of which was a fatal error on
trying to use the phone (not an object), fairly late on in the game. We
had to request a patch disk, which meant we couldn't use our previous
saved games.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quest for Glory 4 - fatal error causing the game to crash in dos. After
contacting Sierra tech help, we were emailed a copied section from their
internal guidelines, as follows:
-----
The best solution is simply to delete the DOS version of the game,
install the Windows version, and play the game in Windows. However,
since the DOS savegames cannot be restored in the Windows version of
the game, some customers may become agitated when told that they need to
start the game over. You can give them the following troubleshooting
steps, which were effective on a very few systems, but we won't
guarantee that they will work.
-----
Note the comment about customers may become agitated when told they need
to start the game over !!! This doesn't reflect a very customer
friendly attitude does it? I did have to reinstall the game and I
wasn't (understandably) very happy about it - pretty poor, to release a
game which cannot be played on a standard PC in dos.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
King's Quest 7 - a bug which prevented an inventory item (wand) working.
This completely prevented progress. We had to miss the rest of that
chapter and skip to the next one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not nit-picking. The above major problems are all genuine and
there have also been countless minor (but still unacceptable) ones.
They have caused hours of frustration and telephone calls etc to
resolve, and when you have gone out and spent money on a famous name
product which is expected to entertain and be fun and enjoyable, it is
unacceptable that such drastic errors should have got through to product
release stage, leaving the customer to sort them out.
Over the years Sierra have released a phenomenal number of games, most
of which have good plots, characters, animation etc. Where the games
fall down is in the actual playing of them, bugs being left unfixed, a
multitude of incompatibility errors which should not happen, very
unhelpful error messages which tell the user nothing about how to deal
with the problems and an unapologetic attitude.
What the customer wants is to have confidence in the product. LucasArts
games have a miniscule number of errors - it inspires confidence and
enhances enjoyment when you can rely on their games loading, detecting
your system configuration and running error-free. Westwood have a
similar quality level. These are not small tin-pot operations but other
major software companies. If they can do it, why can't Sierra?
Lynda Thornton
Matthew Murray
On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, RoyBoy wrote:
> Ken Williams wrote:
> >
> > I disagree.
> >
> > -Ken
>
> Atta way Ken! People love to pick on success. Overall Sierra has done
> and continues to do great things for all gamers.
>
> Grow up folks... a few bad experiences, with a bad employee don't make
> for a bad company, especially when you look at how much business Sierra
> does and how many people enjoy their games.
Last I checked, RoyBoy, everyone was entitled to their opinions,
not just you.
Anyway, while I don't think I would ever say that Sierra sucks, I
think the comments some of the people have been making are valid. I have
had a lot of trouble with the company, and not just the employees who
answer letters. Plus, in terms of their games, their propa... er...
advertising, and other things like that, my experience has also not been
entirely positive. And, for the record, I have nothing against Sierra
because they make a lot of money... To some degree, I honestly believe
they deserve to be in a similar position to where they are today. But
how they got to that position, and what they are doing now that they
occupy it... That's another matter altogether.
===============================================================================
Matthew A. Murray - n964...@cc.wwu.edu
Over 170 computer game reviews, Babylon 5 links, and more on my home page:
http://www.wwu.edu/~n9641343
===============================================================================
Windows 95 - From the Makers of EDLIN!
===============================================================================
Matthew Murray
On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Scott Amspoker wrote:
> Kara Johnson <kjoh...@ncinter.net> wrote:
>
> > It actually proves what Kate said--that you no longer care about your
> >loyal customers opinions--when you say "I disagree" instead of asking
> >*why* they think Sierra hasn't been up to par in the last few years or
> >so.
>
> Frankly, I think Ken's terse response was far more than the original
> posting deserved. I learned long ago not to ponder the motivations of a
> troller.
And how exactly is stating one's opinions a troll? If every time
that anyone states their opinions is a troll, then every single person
that posts on the Useent is a troll. If the original poster has a
problem with Sierra that she would like to bring to the forefront, that
is her business, and she has every right to do so. I, too, did not
appreciate Mr. Williams's response to her message, though I thought it
was quite funny at first. But it struck me much the same way as it
struck Ms. Johnson above--though he did ask in another message why
another poster felt that way, simply saying "I disagree" does not get to
the heart of the matter, nor does it contribute to the discussion.
Matthew Murray
On 3 Dec 1996, Led Mirage wrote:
> In article <32A281...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Kate Ashley <Sham...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Oh yes Sierra does. They have sold out to the money and no longer care
> >about their loyal customers. Kate Ashley
>
> If what Sierra is doing is "selling out", then I hope they keep doing it.
> For some strange, odd reason, I almost always have FUN playing a Sierra
> adventure (those Myst clones are the exception). Yes even Phantasmagoria.
> I just love blood and guts. The thing is, playing a Sierra adventure is
> an experience, rather than just solving mind-numbing puzzles. I've played
Um... Sure... It's really a good thing you didn't cross-post this
message to rec.games.int-fiction. Personally, as much as I do like some
games in Sierra's catalog (most of them older, though I did enjoy The
Beast Within), I don't think any of them classify as an experience.
Pretty much the only games I have played that are experiences are a few
of the old Infocom text adventures, where storytelling reached its finest
form. The best of those games are better than anything on the market
today, and are capable of touching something much deeper than games of
today, and moving you in a way that just isn't possible now. Even The
Beast Within, which was a good game, was not an "experience" in any way.
It was just a game, like most of the rest of Sierra's catalog.
RoyBoy
> Last I checked, RoyBoy, everyone was entitled to their opinions,
> not just you.
Funny... that's what I thought I was doing... expressing my opinion.
I don't recall ever telling anyone not to post their viewpoint.
BTW I've now bookmarked your game review site, nice job!
royboy
Sven
[Kate Ashley <Sham...@ix.netcom.com>]:
>> Actually, I was hoping they'd make another Laura Bow detective mystery
>> (minus the chase and tighten up the overall design). I love the charm of
>> the character (LB) in the early part of the game and the time period. Not
>> to mention, it has one of the best music score anywhere (it sounds
>> amazing on my GUS).
I loved both of them and yeah, the score is fabulous (on both games
<g>). More mysteries, please.
Sven
Syed Noman Ahmad
In article <32A3E8...@ix.netcom.com>,
Kate Ashley <Sham...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[snipped]
>BTW I wish the actor you chose to play Gabriel Knight didn't remind me of Kato Kalin (or
>what ever OJ's resident in the guest house is called.) I preferred the animated
>version.
>
Totally out of line with the topic, but I just want to add one thing.
The interface in GK2 was perhaps the weakest thing in the game.
Sierra can totally destroy QFG5 by adopting the same interface. And somehow
I think they will.
What really amazes me is that editors from CGW, really liked GK2's interface.
Which makes me think, that perhaps I am the only one who is complaining
about these stupid "point&click" interfaces. Even Lucasarts fell for that
in Dig. And what a crap that game was. Atleast GK2, had some nice puzzles.
Monkey Island 1/2 and GK 1 .. the Kings.
--
Noman
mortonk
On Sun, 01 Dec 1996 18:57:18 -0800, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com>
wrote:
>I disagree.
>
>-Ken
>
You disagree that it sucks now, or that it used to be O.K.? <bg>
p.s. I and my family LIKE Sierra games. Just picked up Police Quest 4
(I know it's old, but *we* haven't played it yet!) and likin' it.
Thought GK II was the best thing since the text Zork's.
ken morton mor...@ns.poweramp.net
NASCAR...this ain't no stick and ball sport!!
Bob Jr.
I guess you won't be playing any more games then, huh? Might as well
find another newsgroup. <g>
David Watts
Forget all that - Sierra's policy of NOT putting paper manuals in the
boxes of their games really blows. I haven't bought a game from them
since they started this policy. Silent Thunder and Earthsiege 2
sucked without good manuals (and a help file doesn't count as a
manual). Thank God they put a paper manual in Lords of the Realm 2 -
otherwise I would not have been able to buy that either!
Matthew Murray <n964...@statler.cc.wwu.edu> wrote:
>On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, RoyBoy wrote:
>> Ken Williams wrote:
>> >
>> > I disagree.
>> >
>> > -Ken
>>
>> Atta way Ken! People love to pick on success. Overall Sierra has done
>> and continues to do great things for all gamers.
>>
>> Grow up folks... a few bad experiences, with a bad employee don't make
>> for a bad company, especially when you look at how much business Sierra
>> does and how many people enjoy their games.
> Last I checked, RoyBoy, everyone was entitled to their opinions,
>not just you.
> Anyway, while I don't think I would ever say that Sierra sucks, I
>think the comments some of the people have been making are valid. I have
>had a lot of trouble with the company, and not just the employees who
>answer letters. Plus, in terms of their games, their propa... er...
>advertising, and other things like that, my experience has also not been
>entirely positive. And, for the record, I have nothing against Sierra
>because they make a lot of money... To some degree, I honestly believe
>they deserve to be in a similar position to where they are today. But
>how they got to that position, and what they are doing now that they
>occupy it... That's another matter altogether.
>===============================================================================
Bob Jr.
You go boy! Sierra is #1 because they produce the BEST games in the
industry. Hands down! Everybody in this newsgroup should be thanking
you and Roberta for revolutionizing the gaming industry. My brother
and I are both AVID gamers (adventure) and all we have to do when
buying a game to make sure it will be a GREAT game, is make sure that
the SIERRA label is on it.
Keep up the good work, you've got a life long customer in me!
Bobb
"Thinking of you.
Whips and Kisses
T."
On Mon, 02 Dec 1996 14:56:15 -0800, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com>
wrote:
>All:
Kate Ashley
Lynda Thornton wrote:
>
><snipped>
> My comment at that time was that after having played a wide range of
> games made by a wide range of companies, in my experience I have found
> it to be more often the case that trouble will occur playing a Sierra
> game than most others. We have a good quality, up-to-date PC with
> standard components which my husband also uses for work (he works in the
> computer industry). We have played games by LucasArts, Microprose,
> Electronic Arts, Epic, Westwood, Broderbund, Access amongst others, and,
> of course, many, many by Sierra. Of ALL these games, we have never
> encountered as many problems running (or trying to run) a game as
> consistently as with Sierra. We have been forced to reload, replay and
> sometimes reinstall games and start again from scratch, sometimes after
> having played an enormous portion of the game - this is extremely
> frustrating and detracts from any enjoyment. In my opinion, the
> problems are caused because Sierra do not have a thorough enough testing
> policy before release. Some examples:
I have played games by the same companies, but I have to say that in my experience
Sierra hasn't fallen to the quality control problems Westwood/Virgin have.
> The best solution is simply to delete the DOS version of the game,
> install the Windows version, and play the game in Windows. However,
> since the DOS savegames cannot be restored in the Windows version of
> the game, some customers may become agitated when told that they need to
> start the game over. You can give them the following troubleshooting
> steps, which were effective on a very few systems, but we won't
> guarantee that they will work.
> Note the comment about customers may become agitated when told they need
> to start the game over !!! This doesn't reflect a very customer
> friendly attitude does it? I did have to reinstall the game and I
> wasn't (understandably) very happy about it - pretty poor, to release a
> game which cannot be played on a standard PC in dos.
I totally agree with your points. I was furious. I am now checking the Sierra website
before playing a game for any patches that maybe required.
As for the Windows, my husband and I are beginning to think that Sierra has stocks in
Microsoft or vice versa!! ;)
<snipped>
> I am not nit-picking. The above major problems are all genuine and
> there have also been countless minor (but still unacceptable) ones.
> They have caused hours of frustration and telephone calls etc to
> resolve, and when you have gone out and spent money on a famous name
> product which is expected to entertain and be fun and enjoyable, it is
> unacceptable that such drastic errors should have got through to product
> release stage, leaving the customer to sort them out.
No you are not nitpicking and I hope Ken is taking note.
> Over the years Sierra have released a phenomenal number of games, most
> of which have good plots, characters, animation etc. Where the games
> fall down is in the actual playing of them, bugs being left unfixed, a
> multitude of incompatibility errors which should not happen, very
> unhelpful error messages which tell the user nothing about how to deal
> with the problems and an unapologetic attitude.
To be fair to Sierra I have only come across this attitude problem and poor quality
control since they have grown.
> What the customer wants is to have confidence in the product. LucasArts
> games have a miniscule number of errors - it inspires confidence and
> enhances enjoyment when you can rely on their games loading, detecting
> your system configuration and running error-free. Westwood have a
> similar quality level. These are not small tin-pot operations but other
> major software companies. If they can do it, why can't Sierra?
I agree with most of this, but have to say that in my opinion Westwood has worse
problems.
Prior to the rapid expansion (or so it seems) of Sierra I did not hesitate to grab an
adventure game off the shelf, now I ask fellow gamers or read the newsgroups to see what
is being said before I buy.
The reason I am so disappointed with Sierra is that they were my #1 favourite game
company. When we first updated our system in 89/90 the very first game I bought was KQ5
I fell in love, over the years I have bought all the KQ games, the QFQ games, PQ, SQ and
lots of other games by Sierra and subsidiary companies. I had enjoyed a warm and
friendly rapport with the sales/customer service staff in Coarsegold, and this made
Sierra very special, now they are becoming just another big company. I am glad for Ken
and Roberta's success, but sorry to see Sierra losing that special touch.
Kate Ashley
Dave Potts
David Watts wrote:
>
> Forget all that - Sierra's policy of NOT putting paper manuals in the
> boxes of their games really blows. I haven't bought a game from them
> since they started this policy. Silent Thunder and Earthsiege 2
> sucked without good manuals (and a help file doesn't count as a
> manual). Thank God they put a paper manual in Lords of the Realm 2 -
> otherwise I would not have been able to buy that either!
>
Dave,
You hit the nail on the head with this one! I really don't
know what happened, it used to be that you got a great manual with
most games and then almost overnight they were gone. I guess piracy
had some good points. Manufactures had to supply a good manual so that
they can ask you questions at the beginning. I remember Ultima III and
IV that not only had good manuals but the most execellent map too!
When did RPG games stop supplying information on your armor, weapons
and monsters? I hate it when you open a box only to find a CD, and
sometimes a readme telling you how to print the manual. I guess the
game companies found out that they can charge another $20 for the "hint"
book (another name for the real manual). If the prices of games were
$20 then I can see being cheap but when you pay $59 for a game that has
a $2 CD rom in it you really feel ripped off! Because of this I have
purchases only a few games over the last few years where I used to buy
a game a month. If you buy a game that doesn't have manuals or isn't
as good as it claimed take it back and demand your money back! This
crap has got to end!!!!
Dave
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
-- David Potts Views and Beliefs are my own, and do not --
-- Lucent Technologies represent Lucent Technologies in any way --
-- (Bell Labs Innovations) shape or form. --
-- dav...@lucent.com --
-- --
-- Remove the _ in my address to reply, it is there to stop --
-- automatic mailers --
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
David Campbell
> Um... Sure... It's really a good thing you didn't cross-post this
>message to rec.games.int-fiction. Personally, as much as I do like some
>games in Sierra's catalog (most of them older, though I did enjoy The
>Beast Within), I don't think any of them classify as an experience.
>Pretty much the only games I have played that are experiences are a few
>of the old Infocom text adventures, where storytelling reached its finest
>form. The best of those games are better than anything on the market
>today, and are capable of touching something much deeper than games of
>today, and moving you in a way that just isn't possible now. Even The
>Beast Within, which was a good game, was not an "experience" in any way.
>It was just a game, like most of the rest of Sierra's catalog.
I had very rarely been a fan of the work that Sierra had done until Phantasmagoria. Phantasmagoria was definitely, without question an experience. Text adventures have been good and I remember the old days of playing text adventures on my Commodore C-64. Phantasmagoria told a somewhat good story, but more than the story, it scared and shocked the people who played it. It was slammed for not being more of a challenge but it wasn't meant to be. As you did certain things, a story was revealed and it was an extremly good story telling mechanism. This is the kind of game that I would call an experience. Games that challenge you to solve puzzles, hunt around and think can be extremely good games but the time between the next part of the story is sometimes long and the story becomes fragmented. These kinds of games can be done extremely well (Pandora Directive) but the only game I have EVER played that was an experience was Phantasmagoria.
David
Ken Williams
My original "I disagree" was meant in jest --- I apologize if it came
across incorrectly.
-Ken
Matthew Murray wrote:
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Scott Amspoker wrote:
>
> > Kara Johnson <kjoh...@ncinter.net> wrote:
> >
> > > It actually proves what Kate said--that you no longer care about your
> > >loyal customers opinions--when you say "I disagree" instead of asking
> > >*why* they think Sierra hasn't been up to par in the last few years or
> > >so.
> >
> > Frankly, I think Ken's terse response was far more than the original
> > posting deserved. I learned long ago not to ponder the motivations of a
> > troller.
>
> And how exactly is stating one's opinions a troll? If every time
> that anyone states their opinions is a troll, then every single person
> that posts on the Useent is a troll. If the original poster has a
> problem with Sierra that she would like to bring to the forefront, that
> is her business, and she has every right to do so. I, too, did not
> appreciate Mr. Williams's response to her message, though I thought it
> was quite funny at first. But it struck me much the same way as it
> struck Ms. Johnson above--though he did ask in another message why
> another poster felt that way, simply saying "I disagree" does not get to
> the heart of the matter, nor does it contribute to the discussion.
>
Ken Williams
We've been putting manuals back in products. I had made the decision to
take them out, because I would rather spend money on code, than killing
trees. It didn't occur to me that this would be perceived negatively.
The whole strategy changed after a few days of reading customer mail.
Manuals are back.
-Ken
David Watts wrote:
>
> Forget all that - Sierra's policy of NOT putting paper manuals in the
> boxes of their games really blows. I haven't bought a game from them
> since they started this policy. Silent Thunder and Earthsiege 2
> sucked without good manuals (and a help file doesn't count as a
> manual). Thank God they put a paper manual in Lords of the Realm 2 -
> otherwise I would not have been able to buy that either!
>
> Matthew Murray <n964...@statler.cc.wwu.edu> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, RoyBoy wrote:
>
> >> Ken Williams wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I disagree.
> >> >
> >> > -Ken
> >>
> >> Atta way Ken! People love to pick on success. Overall Sierra has done
> >> and continues to do great things for all gamers.
> >>
> >> Grow up folks... a few bad experiences, with a bad employee don't make
> >> for a bad company, especially when you look at how much business Sierra
> >> does and how many people enjoy their games.
>
> > Last I checked, RoyBoy, everyone was entitled to their opinions,
> >not just you.
> > Anyway, while I don't think I would ever say that Sierra sucks, I
> >think the comments some of the people have been making are valid. I have
> >had a lot of trouble with the company, and not just the employees who
> >answer letters. Plus, in terms of their games, their propa... er...
> >advertising, and other things like that, my experience has also not been
> >entirely positive. And, for the record, I have nothing against Sierra
> >because they make a lot of money... To some degree, I honestly believe
> >they deserve to be in a similar position to where they are today. But
> >how they got to that position, and what they are doing now that they
> >occupy it... That's another matter altogether.
>
Ken Williams
Kate:
I appreciate the time you took to write this. Comments like these I can
cope with and react to. Sierra's customers represent 100% of our revenue
(not to mention job security). If I know where we can improve, I know
how to do a better job.
My answers are embedded below in your comments.
Thanks - Ken
Kate Ashley wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> I recall ordering games from Coarsegold when the staff were in a trailer and didn't even
> have computers. The women were friendly and actually recalled you if you ordered often
> enough. I wrote to Susan Walls, I've forgotten what about, and she very nicely sent me
> a coupon for a free game. The staff were far more responsive and made you feel valued.
In those days we had a hand full of people in customer support. We now
have well over a hundred. It is tough for our service representatives to
be on a first name basis with all our customers. That said, we just
invested heavily in a system so that when you call support your entire
history with us pops up on screen. That way if you have to call multiple
times we at least have the full history and have the best possible
chance to make sure that all is resolved happily. It's not as good as
always going to the same service rep, but it's the closest we've been
able to get.
>
> I have called Washington, have used your BBS (now defunct? Shame because I liked it)
> and have written, faxed and emailed you and Roberta re the disastrous decision to put
> KQ7 out for Windows only. I never ever got a reply, not even a postcard acknowledging
> receipt. It was obviously important to me as I tried various methods to find out why
> this decision was made. When I asked a Sierra rep in Washington why this game was not
> in DOS, the reply involved "there are plenty of other game companies out there play
> their games." I believe I mentioned this in the letter. This really gives me the
> feeling Sierra still cares.
I am amazingly great at answering my email. My guess is that I answer
50+ emails a day from customers. I'm bad at answering snail mail. My
guess is that I get 20+ a day and answer a couple. You've now found how
to find me. The bad news is that I am close to the breaking point. If I
spend just 5 minutes per email -- and do 50 a day -- and the number
grows at 30% per year -- oops...
>
> I find that Sierra now makes game expecting people to have the latest software/hardware
> especially Microsoft stuff. This really annoys me when you do not have to do this. I
> really like the various Quest series and am angered when I am unnecessarily forced to
> buy software so I may play a game.
I've been on the cutting edge, and on the trailing edge. It seems like
there are lots of companies that know how to make trailing edge software
-- why do it here? Sierra really does target the premium user with
premium product. We have a tremendous backlist of products which runs
great on older machines -- if someone really wants DOS 386 product, I
have plenty of it. The challenge for me comes from looking at what
computers can do today they couldn't do yesterday, and then building a
product around it.
>
> BTW I wish the actor you chose to play Gabriel Knight didn't remind me of Kato Kalin (or
> what ever OJ's resident in the guest house is called.) I preferred the animated
> version.
Oops ... No more actors who remind people of Kato .. got it .. written
down (sorry, I forgot my sense of humor already got me in trouble)
>
> If you care to scan your registration files you will see I have many, many Sierra games,
> in fact some I've not even yet registered.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> May you don't see this Ken because you are the owner not the customer. I doubt your
> staff run to tell you the problems and complaints.
I am hyper sensitive to customer issues. I always read the boards --
and, I buy tons of our product at retail. I call our support lines. I do
everything I can to try to put myself in the position of being a Sierra
customer. If customers are not happy we with us, we are gone. Dead.
Deceased. All over. I constantly remind everyone here that we are only
as good as our last product. We take this issue VERY seriously.
>
> Kate
>
> > Kate:
> >
> > How could you possibly believe this? Why would any company do such a
> > thing? What can I do to convince you this isn't true?
> >
> > -Ken
> >
Ken Williams
<clap> <clap> <clap>! I've been saying that around here, but have been
able to convince people that anyone other than me remembers Laura Bow.
-Ken
Led Mirage wrote:
>
> In article <32a832d9...@news.sn.no>, Sven <sv...@sn.no> wrote:
> >
> >Now, if we could get a game in the same vein as Camelot/Longbow
> >again... <dream on>...
>
Sunny
Matthew Murray wrote:
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Scott Amspoker wrote:
>
> > Kara Johnson <kjoh...@ncinter.net> wrote:
> >
> > > It actually proves what Kate said--that you no longer care about your
> > >loyal customers opinions--when you say "I disagree" instead of asking
> > >*why* they think Sierra hasn't been up to par in the last few years or
> > >so.
> >
> > Frankly, I think Ken's terse response was far more than the original
> > posting deserved. I learned long ago not to ponder the motivations of a
> > troller.
>
> And how exactly is stating one's opinions a troll? If every time
> that anyone states their opinions is a troll, then every single person
> that posts on the Useent is a troll. If the original poster has a
> problem with Sierra that she would like to bring to the forefront, that
> is her business, and she has every right to do so. I, too, did not
> appreciate Mr. Williams's response to her message, though I thought it
> was quite funny at first. But it struck me much the same way as it
> struck Ms. Johnson above--though he did ask in another message why
> another poster felt that way, simply saying "I disagree" does not get to
> the heart of the matter, nor does it contribute to the discussion.
>
> Matthew A. Murray - n964...@cc.wwu.edu
>
> Over 170 computer game reviews, Babylon 5 links, and more on my home page:
> http://www.wwu.edu/~n9641343
> ===============================================================================
> Windows 95 - From the Makers of EDLIN!
> ===============================================================================
The original posting simply stated an opinion "SIERRA SUCKS"
Nothing more, nothing less, other than to state - "e-mail me if you want to know why."
Even the following comments prior to Ken's never put forth any other opinion other
than "I agree with the original poster" (loosely quoted).
Ken Williams simply responded "I disagree". What else should he have said, when no other
opinion was given forth?
Joe II
Seeing as I'm the brother, I would have to agree with Bob. Sierra is
#1 in my book.
Joe II
jpg...@worldnet.att.net
On Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:08:23 GMT, Lash...@worldnet.att.net (Bob Jr.)
contributed:
*------------------------------------------*
Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
and a comedy for those who think!
*------------------------------------------*
Joe II
jpg...@worldnet.att.net
Kara Johnson
Maybe we should e-mail that one-dude and ask him to post why he thinks
Sierra sucks? He's the only one who hasn't spoken up yet!
Kara Johnson
Now, THERE was great game! About 20 people and I were talking (on
SierraChat) about how they need to make another one! It had great
versatility. If you were an idiot, you could beat it at an idiots level;
If you were a genius (like yours truly!:-), you could make it a real
challenge!
Now your making me feel nostalgic! That was the third adventure game I
ever played! If my psycho-of-a-mother hadn't burned the disks(I told ya
she was a few french fries short of a happy meal:-) when I was little, I
would play it a hundred times over! Anyone know where I can gaffle a
copy?
Kate Ashley
Ken Williams wrote:
>
> We've been putting manuals back in products. I had made the decision to
> take them out, because I would rather spend money on code, than killing
> trees. It didn't occur to me that this would be perceived negatively.
> The whole strategy changed after a few days of reading customer mail.
> Manuals are back.
>
> -Ken
Ken have you considered hemp? I am sure if enough influential people rallied for this
amazing plant that offers so much more than paper there could be a burgeoning industry,
along with saving trees and providing employment. Kate
Jerry Levy
Lynda Thornton <B...@wuli.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Gabriel Knight 1 - many errors, the worst of which was a fatal error on
>trying to use the phone (not an object), fairly late on in the game.
>Quest for Glory 4 - fatal error causing the game to crash in dos.
>King's Quest 7 - a bug which prevented an inventory item (wand) working.
I guess it all depends on what you play! I have played Shivers,
Lighthouse, and Phantasmagoria, and my son Mixed Up Mother Goose, and
the Dr. Brain Series, and guess what? Not a single bug in the bunch
(that I encountered anyway).
As such I always thought that Sierra made the most bug free games of
all the companies I have purchased games from. Just from the
otherside of the coin...
--Jerry
** all snips (indicated or otherwise) are for
bandwidth and not content - some claims maybe
opinion based and not necessarily factual **
Tom and deb Sosnowski
Sierra sucks because you have to get a patch?
At least you can get a patch! What if you can't? Then what?
When they make a game, they can't forsee all the different combinations
of software, hardware, firmware, and vaporware. It just so happens I
haven't had to patch yet, but it's nice to know that if I do I can get
one.
!
Tom & Deb Sosnowski TD...@prodigy.com
!
debbie
On Tue, 03 Dec 1996 16:29:02 -0800, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com>
wrote:
><clap> <clap> <clap>! I've been saying that around here, but have been
>able to convince people that anyone other than me remembers Laura Bow.
>
>-Ken
>I remember Laura Bow! The Dagger was the very first adventure game I played, and to this day it is still my favorite!
And, I had the disk version, which didn't even talk!!!!! So Ken when
can we see another Laura Bow??? Pretty please with
sugar on top???
Debbie
debbie
On Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:52:12 +0000, Lynda Thornton
<B...@wuli.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <32A245...@seanet.com>, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com>
>writes
>>I disagree.
>>
>There was another 'heated debate' about Sierra on this newsgroup
>recently, to which I contributed, as although I have played and enjoyed
>many Sierra games, I feel that the issue of quality control and testing
>of products by games companies is a vitally important and often
>neglected part of their process, particularly by Sierra.
>
>My comment at that time was that after having played a wide range of
>games made by a wide range of companies, in my experience I have found
>it to be more often the case that trouble will occur playing a Sierra
>game than most others. We have a good quality, up-to-date PC with
>standard components which my husband also uses for work (he works in the
>computer industry). We have played games by LucasArts, Microprose,
>Electronic Arts, Epic, Westwood, Broderbund, Access amongst others, and,
>of course, many, many by Sierra. Of ALL these games, we have never
>encountered as many problems running (or trying to run) a game as
>consistently as with Sierra. We have been forced to reload, replay and
>sometimes reinstall games and start again from scratch, sometimes after
>having played an enormous portion of the game - this is extremely
>frustrating and detracts from any enjoyment. In my opinion, the
>problems are caused because Sierra do not have a thorough enough testing
>policy before release. Some examples:
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Gabriel Knight 1 - many errors, the worst of which was a fatal error on
>trying to use the phone (not an object), fairly late on in the game. We
>had to request a patch disk, which meant we couldn't use our previous
>saved games.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Quest for Glory 4 - fatal error causing the game to crash in dos. After
>contacting Sierra tech help, we were emailed a copied section from their
>internal guidelines, as follows:
>
> -----
>The best solution is simply to delete the DOS version of the game,
>install the Windows version, and play the game in Windows. However,
>since the DOS savegames cannot be restored in the Windows version of
>the game, some customers may become agitated when told that they need to
>start the game over. You can give them the following troubleshooting
>steps, which were effective on a very few systems, but we won't
>guarantee that they will work.
> -----
>
>Note the comment about customers may become agitated when told they need
>to start the game over !!! This doesn't reflect a very customer
>friendly attitude does it? I did have to reinstall the game and I
>wasn't (understandably) very happy about it - pretty poor, to release a
>game which cannot be played on a standard PC in dos.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>King's Quest 7 - a bug which prevented an inventory item (wand) working.
>This completely prevented progress. We had to miss the rest of that
>chapter and skip to the next one.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I am not nit-picking. The above major problems are all genuine and
>there have also been countless minor (but still unacceptable) ones.
>They have caused hours of frustration and telephone calls etc to
>resolve, and when you have gone out and spent money on a famous name
>product which is expected to entertain and be fun and enjoyable, it is
>unacceptable that such drastic errors should have got through to product
>release stage, leaving the customer to sort them out.
>
>Over the years Sierra have released a phenomenal number of games, most
>of which have good plots, characters, animation etc. Where the games
>fall down is in the actual playing of them, bugs being left unfixed, a
>multitude of incompatibility errors which should not happen, very
>unhelpful error messages which tell the user nothing about how to deal
>with the problems and an unapologetic attitude.
>
>What the customer wants is to have confidence in the product. LucasArts
>games have a miniscule number of errors - it inspires confidence and
>enhances enjoyment when you can rely on their games loading, detecting
>your system configuration and running error-free. Westwood have a
>similar quality level. These are not small tin-pot operations but other
>major software companies. If they can do it, why can't Sierra?
>
>Lynda Thornton
Unfortunately I can't complain about anything with Sierra. I have
only ever had one game that didn't work as expected. QFG 4 The
original disk version! The customer support guy was very nice and
apologized for the inconvenience and sent me a patch for it. The patch
didn't fix all the problems, but I got a full refund. I now have the
cd version and have not experienced any problems with it so far. I
have it on the back burner at the moment. I realize that it is
frustrating to want and enjoy a game that doesn't work properly, but I
think it is impossible to test every possible configuration before
release. Especially when new products hit the street every day. I
have to say that I have experienced many more problems with other
companies. Some of which put out games and then take down the web
page and stop answering the phones. How do you get tech support like
that??? Those games have to go in the trash.......at least with a
patch there is a possible salvation!!!!!
My opinion is that sierra makes good quality products,and provides
support in many ways. They have an unconditional guarantee,so there
is no risk. And I plan to buy more of their games in the future. I
do not pay a whole lot of attention to remarks about bugs on this
newsgroup because I think there are a whole lot of whiners out there
and if the game doesn't work I will return it.
This is my own personal opinion and I am entitled to it!!!!
Debbie
Scott Amspoker
Matthew Murray <n964...@statler.cc.wwu.edu> wrote:
> And how exactly is stating one's opinions a troll? If every time
>that anyone states their opinions is a troll, then every single person
>that posts on the Useent is a troll.
A "troll" is a post that is intended to provoke a response and nothing
more. I could be wrong about the original poster. Perhaps his capacity
for expressing an opinion doesn't go beyond "Sierra Sucks" and he was
simply doing his best to engage constructive debate. So how's the thread
coming along? Reactive or constructive? Troll or not?
Scott Amspoker | Check out my adventure
sc...@basis.com | game reviews at:
http://www.rt66.com/sda| http://www.rt66.com/sda/rv.htm
Led Mirage
In article <32A4C4...@seanet.com>, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com> wrote:
>We've been putting manuals back in products. I had made the decision to
>take them out, because I would rather spend money on code, than killing
>trees. It didn't occur to me that this would be perceived negatively.
>The whole strategy changed after a few days of reading customer mail.
>Manuals are back.
>
adventures like LSL or SQ, I don't care about a manual telling me how to
run the game because those games are yay simple (although the extras,
like GK's mini graphic novel are always expected and appreciated).
However, in a decently complex strategy game like Cyberstorm, there
SHOULD be a manual on how to do things. Try playing Falcon 3.0 with just
an online manual (and not a very good one at that), then you'll get our
point (about a paper manual. Killing trees? Heck, there are hundreds of
thousands of paper novel printed everyday, and many of them just sit in
the bookstore). Manual in some games is a neccesity, not a luxury.
Led Mirage
In article <32a4ff6b...@news.earthlink.net>,
debbie <john_...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Unfortunately I can't complain about anything with Sierra. I have
I do have one thing to complain about Sierra games. Their stupid sound
drivers. First of all, their driver doesn't support a wide range of
cards. These days, thats a no-no. Worse of all, they won't allow the user
to manuelly specify which resource to use (IRQ, DMA etc). They should
know that automatic detection routines don't always work. Most companies
these days allow the user to pick which IRQ to use etc. As a matter of
fact, many companies these days just use the HMI libraries and it works
like a charm on a variety of soundcards. Why couldn't Sierra? These are
just graphics adventures, not something like a dynamic system (like the
imuse system that Lucas Arts uses or the one Origin uses in the Wing
Commander series). To this day, Sierra's sound driver remains crappy,
even though when you do get it to work, the score and effects are
beautiful (and that's even more frustrating knowing it).
Led Mirage
In article <583q8a$g...@epimetheus.algonet.se>,
ana valdés <ag...@algonet.se> wrote:
>Interesting what you say about Laura Bow. I meet one of Sierras
>highest chiefs in London, in a game conference, and wondered why did
>they sequels to all other games, Larry, Hero Quest, and so on, but no
>one after the Dagger of Amon Ra, the latest Laura Bow mystery.
>He said they were very keen about "what people" wanted, they got a lot
>of letters and backup for other games, but not any showed interest in
>any following of Laura.
>We should bomb Sierra with letters asking for Roberta to leave
>Phantasmagoria 2 and start a new Laura...
Laura Bow is not without its problems, particularly with the chase and
timing problems (need to be at certain place at certain time). But the
first part was just beautiful. I think if they could tighten up the game
design and keep the charm (no FMV, thank you very much), it could blosom
into a real good series.
Scott Amspoker
lmi...@interlog.com (Led Mirage) wrote:
>I do have one thing to complain about Sierra games. Their stupid sound
>drivers. First of all, their driver doesn't support a wide range of
>cards. These days, thats a no-no. Worse of all, they won't allow the user
>to manuelly specify which resource to use (IRQ, DMA etc). They should
>know that automatic detection routines don't always work.
This is a sore point with me (but not just Sierra). I have a pretty
standard sound card except that it's set to use DMA 0. Even games that
offer manual sound configuration will give me a limited choice of DMA
channels - and 0 sometimes won't be one of them! (So I have to temporarily
reconfigure the sound card to match the game.)
I guess that's why I prefer games to run under Win95. My Win95 drivers
have already taken care of all that nonsense. Not that all is well with
Win95 either, but at least game developers don't need to waste their time
supporting a bazillion sound cards and video adaptors (even if they OEM
3rd-party libraries) and can concentrate on other aspects of the game.
Michael E.T.I. Boerrigter
In article <582sk6$k...@news.azstarnet.com>, jl...@azstarnet.com says...
> Lynda Thornton <B...@wuli.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Gabriel Knight 1 - many errors, the worst of which was a fatal error on
> >trying to use the phone (not an object), fairly late on in the game.
>
>
>
> Lighthouse, and Phantasmagoria, and my son Mixed Up Mother Goose, and
> the Dr. Brain Series, and guess what? Not a single bug in the bunch
> (that I encountered anyway).
>
> As such I always thought that Sierra made the most bug free games of
> all the companies I have purchased games from. Just from the
> otherside of the coin...
>
> --Jerry
>
> ** all snips (indicated or otherwise) are for
> bandwidth and not content - some claims maybe
> opinion based and not necessarily factual **
>
>
played all Larry's, Space Quest, Police Quest, Shivers, GK2, Phantas,
Lighthouse, etc. and apart from an occasional glitch (which is gone after
restarting the game) I had no problems at all on a variety of machines.
Although I think their customer support could use some improvement, the
games that I have enjoyed playing were almost exclusively from Sierra.
If you do not like Sierra's games then please don't buy them.
Michael
ALVAREZ_GARCIA__R.
I just want to tell Sierra, Roberta and Ken Williams
that I LOVED both Laura Bow games, and that I would
like to see a new installment in the series.
Sierra, please bring Laura back!!!
Raul Alvarez
Scarlette
ALVAREZ_GARCIA__R. <D651...@quartz.upc.es> wrote in article
<584ft2$7...@diable.upc.es>...
I would love to have a new adventure with Laura as well. Great games, I
was sad they never continued the series.
Sven
[lmi...@interlog.com (Led Mirage)]:
>In article <32A4C4...@seanet.com>, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com> wrote:
>>We've been putting manuals back in products. I had made the decision to
>>take them out, because I would rather spend money on code, than killing
>>trees. It didn't occur to me that this would be perceived negatively.
>>The whole strategy changed after a few days of reading customer mail.
>>Manuals are back.
>Just because we use computers, doesn't mean we don't read. For graphics
>adventures like LSL or SQ, I don't care about a manual telling me how to
>run the game because those games are yay simple (although the extras,
>like GK's mini graphic novel are always expected and appreciated).
>However, in a decently complex strategy game like Cyberstorm, there
<blah>
Oy! Remember that gold rush game Sierra released back in the days of
KQ4? Even though I don't need a manual telling me to click that icon
to make this happen it doesn't mean I don't appreciate background
info. A story, a book, cartoons (old SQ). Yay!
Sven
Sven
[john_...@earthlink.net (debbie)]:
>On Tue, 03 Dec 1996 16:29:02 -0800, Ken Williams <ke...@seanet.com>
>wrote:
>
>><clap> <clap> <clap>! I've been saying that around here, but have been
>>able to convince people that anyone other than me remembers Laura Bow.
>>
>>-Ken
>>I remember Laura Bow! The Dagger was the very first adventure game I played, and to this day it is still my favorite!
>And, I had the disk version, which didn't even talk!!!!! So Ken when
>can we see another Laura Bow??? Pretty please with
>sugar on top???
Hey, I digged the score for the Amiga version of Colonel's Bequest.
Come to think of it, I still do. While only being one channel and kind
of monotonous <g>, it brings back memories. I must admit I was put off
by Laura's accent in the follow-up but the game itself more than made
up for it.
Three's the charm, what do you say? :)
Oh yeah,
--> Visa Card
--> Quest for Glory 5
Can't wait!
Sven
Thierry Nguyen
john_...@earthlink.net (debbie) wrote:
>
>
>Unfortunately I can't complain about anything with Sierra. I have
>only ever had one game that didn't work as expected. QFG 4 The
>original disk version! The customer support guy was very nice and
>apologized for the inconvenience and sent me a patch for it. The patch
>didn't fix all the problems, but I got a full refund. I now have the
>cd version and have not experienced any problems with it so far. I
>have it on the back burner at the moment. I realize that it is
>frustrating to want and enjoy a game that doesn't work properly, but I
>think it is impossible to test every possible configuration before
>release. Especially when new products hit the street every day. I
>have to say that I have experienced many more problems with other
>companies. Some of which put out games and then take down the web
>page and stop answering the phones. How do you get tech support like
>that??? Those games have to go in the trash.......at least with a
>patch there is a possible salvation!!!!!
>My opinion is that sierra makes good quality products,and provides
>support in many ways. They have an unconditional guarantee,so there
>is no risk. And I plan to buy more of their games in the future. I
>do not pay a whole lot of attention to remarks about bugs on this
>newsgroup because I think there are a whole lot of whiners out there
>and if the game doesn't work I will return it.
>
>This is my own personal opinion and I am entitled to it!!!!
>
>Debbie
I don't think Sierra "sucks", but they DO need to improve. For
example, the recent fiasco with FPS: Baseball '96. Though, things may
brighten up for them...
Anyhow, the point of this post is to add my very own "patch story", :)
QFG4 was fouled up when I tried to play as a Thief, needed a patch for
that. GK1 kept on crashing, needed a patch. But, this is all nice and
normal. There is one unforgettable story though:
I'll only say a few necessary words, the rest can be imagined by you,
;)
Someday in July, 1994: Bought Outpost the first day it came out. Read
the "readme" file. Awaited patch.
Someday in October 1995: Recieved Outpost patch that finally added the
necessary gameplay items left out in the original release.
'Nuff said, :)
Thierry "Scooter" Nguyen
Former Editorial Intern
Currently Youthful Mercenary Muse
CGW
(P.S. NOT AN EDITOR! Anything said here is MY opinion, and not necessarily the opinion of the CGW Editorial Staff)
Johnny Lamar Rhyne
In <MPG.d0f8b1e9...@news.sprynet.com> mboe...@sprynet.com
(Michael E.T.I. Boerrigter) writes:
>
>In article <582sk6$k...@news.azstarnet.com>, jl...@azstarnet.com says...
>> Lynda Thornton <B...@wuli.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >Gabriel Knight 1 - many errors, the worst of which was a fatal
error on
>> >trying to use the phone (not an object), fairly late on in the
game.
>>
>> >Quest for Glory 4 - fatal error causing the game to crash in dos.
>>
>> >King's Quest 7 - a bug which prevented an inventory item (wand)
working.
>>
>> I guess it all depends on what you play! I have played Shivers,
>> Lighthouse, and Phantasmagoria, and my son Mixed Up Mother Goose,
and
>> the Dr. Brain Series, and guess what? Not a single bug in the bunch
>> (that I encountered anyway).
>>
>> As such I always thought that Sierra made the most bug free games of
>> all the companies I have purchased games from. Just from the
>> otherside of the coin...
I have to agree with the what the above and staements are saying. I
have played ALL of the Space Quests, PQ3, KQ5 & KQ6, Freddy Pharkas,
and am currently playing Gabriel Knight(Giving me nightmares, BTW) and
I have harldy ever had any trouble with a sierra game.
The only trouble I ever have is on Gabriel Knight and Freddy
Pharkas(Both are CD's), sometimes the speech comes out garbled or
reapeats itself. The only sierra game I have never gotten to run is
Aces over Europe(Not Even an Adventure game).
Susan Coffin
-So many complaints about Sierra bugs. Doesn't anyone remember Sim-City
and Sim-Earth? I had to save every time I made a move, so I wouldn't
lose all progress in the next crash. Sim-Earth crashed on an average of
once every five minutes. I won't buy a game by that company (whoever
they are) anymore. I've always considered Sierra one of the more
reliable companies - at least I know their games will install on
whatever system I've ever had, bugs or not. Some Lucasarts and Origin
games have had to be returned, because I couldn't get them running in
the first place.
Susan
Matias Rodrigues Costa
><clap> <clap> <clap>! I've been saying that around here, but have been
>able to convince people that anyone other than me remembers Laura Bow.
>
>-Ken
Then please add me to the list of those who remember Laura Bow!
I remember when I bought this game - I didn't know very much
about it, but since I had a log of fun with other Sierra games
(like King's Quest and Space Quest) I decided to go ahead
and mail order it (and since I live in Brazil, thats quite
complicated...)
Well, I loved the game! Great storyline and characters. The
music was really very good (I got a MT-32, that helped a
lot). A sequel would be great (and I would buy it!)
BTW, I think it is great that the CEO of a big company like
Sierra reads and writes in the Usenet newsgroups (even
though some people around here are not very polite).
A long time customer (ever since playing Space Quest I and II
in my PC-Jr)...
Matias
=======================================
| Matias Rodrigues Costa | |
| ------------------------| \|/ |
| mati...@dcc.unicamp.br | )o.o( |
|--------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo|
| http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~matiasrc |
=======================================
ana valdés
Interesting what you say about Laura Bow. I meet one of Sierras
highest chiefs in London, in a game conference, and wondered why did
they sequels to all other games, Larry, Hero Quest, and so on, but no
one after the Dagger of Amon Ra, the latest Laura Bow mystery.
He said they were very keen about "what people" wanted, they got a lot
of letters and backup for other games, but not any showed interest in
any following of Laura.
We should bomb Sierra with letters asking for Roberta to leave
Phantasmagoria 2 and start a new Laura...
Ulysses
Kate Ashley
Ah well Susan I've never played the Sim games, because up until a
couple of years ago I would buy a Sierra adventure game over anything
else. Kate
Mark Butler
obviously I have lost the original thread as now its mutated to a Laura Bow
fond remembrance thread, but just commenting on the title...I have to admit
that I am pretty happy with Sierra..they churn out a lot of games and like
anything else there are lots of good, some outstanding and a few
stinkers..but by (buy?) and large I've been happy with their product, I
have more sierra boxes on the shelf than anybody else, back to LSL1 on my
Atari ST....no real complaints..sorry
Mark
--
Marks Palace at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/1133
A place for Doc Savage, Conan, Comics, Games, Stories and more
where actual "content" lives, not just a palace of links
Flash: check out my updated original XCOM1 Win95 screen theme with original
XCOM1 fiction.
D. James Stein
In article <32A281...@ix.netcom.com> Kate Ashley <Sham...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Oh yes Sierra does. They have sold out to the money and no longer care
>about their loyal customers. Kate Ashley
Right on Kate. They've followed the gaming industry's lead of "Put a lot of
cutscenes and nice sound in, make it multiplayer and DirectX, and people will
buy it." Too bad their recent games all flop on the two most important points:
GAMEPLAY and PLOT.
- Jim
Magdalena Kohler
I, too, would *love* to play a new Laura Bow game!
If anyone at Sierra reads this: Please, do another!!!
Magda
--
*************************************************************
Magdalena Kohler
Elly-Heuss-Knapp-Str. 21
72074 Tuebingen
Germany
EMail: magdalen...@student.uni-tuebingen.de
*************************************************************
Jocke Zetterberg
Let's all mail Sierra, asking for a third sequel (and possibly more to
come) in the Laura Bow series. Been a fan since the first game and never
will grow tired of them. It's the atmosphere I like, the atmosphere
which they've not been able to create in ANY other games, in my opinion.
As far as I understand from the Sierra homepage
(http://www.sierra.com/support/contacts.html) the mail addie to direct
our wishes to is the usual one:
I've already mailed then, you do the same right away. We want more Laura
on our screens!
/Jocke
Scarlette
Jocke Zetterberg <red9...@mds.mdh.se> wrote in article
<32A84E...@mds.mdh.se>...
> Let's all mail Sierra, asking for a third sequel (and possibly more to
> come) in the Laura Bow series. Been a fan since the first game and never
> will grow tired of them. It's the atmosphere I like, the atmosphere
> which they've not been able to create in ANY other games, in my opinion.
I sent them my note ;>
dhse...@access.digex.net
In Article<32A84E...@mds.mdh.se>, <red9...@mds.mdh.se> write:
> Subject: Mail Sierra about Laura Bow!
> Let's all mail Sierra, asking for a third sequel (and possibly
>more to come) in the Laura Bow series.
[snip]
>As far as I understand from the Sierra homepage
>http://www.sierra.com/support/contacts.html) the mail addie to
direct our wishes to is the usual one:
>
> sup...@sierra.com
>
>I've already mailed then, you do the same right away. We want
>more Laura on our screens!
>
> /Jocke
Great Idea! I'm off to mail Sierra too?
More Laura Bow, More Laura Bow !!!
Cydney
Adam G. Unikowsky
Actually, what bothers me most about Sierra is that they can't learn from
their mistakes. Outpost, released in 1994, was the biggest fiasco in the
history of computer gaming. (Not to mention the fact that it took over a
year to bring a patch, and in their latest interaction magazine they call it
"phenominally successful". I lost a lot of respect for Sierra. Slowly, I
began to give them another chance; I bought GK2, which was excellent. Then,
I bought FPS Baseball 96, a horribly buggy game which was simply embarrassing
(and you Ken have the chutzpah to come onto the newsgroup and etch unto
cyberspace that anyone who buys FPS Baseball 97 will be very pleased, that it
is stable, bug-free, one of the best Sierra games ever, etc.). Now, I'm sure
Sierra has put out some good games, but considering what you did with FPSB 96
and Outpost you've lost one customer, at least for now.
Adam (md...@musica.mcgill.ca)
Anatoli Vassilina
"Why give them what they want, if they'll take what we give them"
that's how Sierra works, along with Microsoft and the rest of them.
I don't understand why some of you take it so personal, if someone says
"Sierra sucks"? No one in Sierra cares if you're their “life long
customer” or
whatever, all they care about is money we pay for the games.
If someone have paid too much for the game that was not what Sierra
promised it would be (Urban Runner comes to mind),
and they want to say it, why not let them?
Sierra sucks!
--
Anatoli.
Sandra Haden
On 6 Dec 1996 10:31:20 GMT, zxm...@hp10.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
(Magdalena Kohler) wrote:
I'm with you. I would love one too. Get to work Sierra!
Matthew Murray
On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Anatoli Vassilina wrote:
> "Why give them what they want, if they'll take what we give them"
> that's how Sierra works, along with Microsoft and the rest of them.=20
> I don't understand why some of you take it so personal, if someone says=
=20
> "Sierra sucks"? No one in Sierra cares if you're their =93life long
> customer=94 or=20
> whatever, all they care about is money we pay for the games. =20
=09Bravo! I couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly=20
Sierra's company philosophy, word for word. Thank you for posting=20
this--the truth can be so hard to come by on the newsgroups...
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
Matthew A. Murray - n964...@cc.wwu.edu
Over 170 computer game reviews, Babylon 5 links, and more on my home page=
:
http://www.wwu.edu/~n9641343
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
Windows 95 - From the Makers of EDLIN!
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
Thomas Boyington
Hi. How do I get past the garbage disposal? The thing is running
and kills me every time I try to cross it. I did short out the
fuse box but only the first fuse blew...the other two were still
active....is this the problem? Please e-mail me or post as I would
really like to finish this game.
Tom
Don Munsil
Anatoli Vassilina <do...@mail.me> wrote:
>"Why give them what they want, if they'll take what we give them"
>that's how Sierra works, along with Microsoft and the rest of them.
That is not in any way Sierra's corporate philosophy, nor Microsoft's either.
On the contrary, both companies have specific goals of fulfilling customers
needs as a PRIMARY concern.
>I don't understand why some of you take it so personal, if someone says
>"Sierra sucks"?
Because I work for Sierra, and I don't think we suck.
> No one in Sierra cares if you're their “life long
>customer” or
>whatever, all they care about is money we pay for the games.
This is simply 100% untrue. We want to make the best games in the world. We
don't always succeed, but our goal is to give the customers more than they
expect from the game. That's the corporate policy, and Ken lives and breathes
it. Believe me, we hear it all the time.
We have a 100% money-back guarantee. We LOSE money every time someone returns
a game, so we pay close attention to customer satisfaction. How many companies
will let you return a product directly to them even if you didn't buy it
direct? I only know one: Sierra.
>If someone have paid too much for the game that was not what Sierra
>promised it would be (Urban Runner comes to mind),
>and they want to say it, why not let them?
Please do say it, because we'd like to know. And return the product. Say it as
much as you like. But generalizing from that to "Sierra doesn't care about
their customers" is going a wee bit too far.
We cannot make perfect, bug-free products every time. No company can. But we
make it our goal to do so. We can't satisfy every customer. But we try to
satisfy as many customers as possible. And if we can't, we give their money
back.
Please understand, I absolutely support your right to criticize products you
don't like, and in fact actively encourage you to do so, because it helps us
make better products. And I personally apologize for your dissatisfaction with
Sierra products. But it's frustrating to read "Sierra sucks," because it's not
useful at all, to me or to anyone else.
--Don Munsil
Team Larry 7
---------------------------------------------------------
Don Munsil | Never ascribe to malevolence what
dmu...@wolfenet.com | can adequately be explained by
| stupidity.
RoyBoy
Actually I never tried to short all the fuses early in the game. It was
only later that needed to be done so I don't know if that will stop the
disposal or not. I do know that you can do it by jamming it with one of
the utensils. You're not quite heavy enough so get a little help.
royboy
PS To blow the other fuses take a good look around that room and look
for numbers that repeat in a few spots.
Matthew Anderson
Don Munsil (dmu...@wolfenet.com) wrote:
: Anatoli Vassilina <do...@mail.me> wrote:
:
: >"Why give them what they want, if they'll take what we give them"
: >that's how Sierra works, along with Microsoft and the rest of them.
:
: That is not in any way Sierra's corporate philosophy, nor Microsoft's either.
: On the contrary, both companies have specific goals of fulfilling customers
: needs as a PRIMARY concern.
This may be true, however, sometimes small companies like id or Apogee or
Blizzard can dish out better games simply because they aren't weighed
down by the bureacracy. They can just go out there and create the
best damn games they feel like making, whether their pres.
likes it or not. The freedom in a small company can be very
beneficial.
: >I don't understand why some of you take it so personal, if someone says
A.M. Carson
Don Munsil wrote:
>
> Anatoli Vassilina <do...@mail.me> wrote:
>
> >"Why give them what they want, if they'll take what we give them"
> >that's how Sierra works, along with Microsoft and the rest of them.
>
> That is not in any way Sierra's corporate philosophy, nor Microsoft's either.
> On the contrary, both companies have specific goals of fulfilling customers
> needs as a PRIMARY concern.
>
I don't buy games often, and I don't really have a favorite company, but
every Sierra game I have bought or tried I have liked. Not loved, but
liked and enjoyed playing.
Does Sierra still have the 30day guarantee? I have never used it, but
that always struck me as being a very good [for the consumer]
policy--you can return it for any reason, just tell us why.
Tony
--
dtca...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2037
http://www.netcom.com/~dtcarson
'I have become one with my computer. It is a feeling of ecstacy...
the perfect blend of logic and emotion. I have reached...'
'"Nerdvana"'
Dilbert/Dogbert http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert
me
go look at the stove closely.help out the little bug on the front of the stove
he adds more weight so you can get loose the utensil.good luck
Anatoli Vassilina
> return the product. Say it as
> much as you like. But generalizing from that to "Sierra doesn't care about
> their customers" is going a wee bit too far.
>
> We cannot make perfect, bug-free products every time. No company can. But we
> make it our goal to do so. We can't satisfy every customer. But we try to
> satisfy as many customers as possible. And if we can't, we give their money
> back.
You mean that I can send the game back to Sierra saying:" Here's your
game, I didn't
like it, so please send me my money back"?
>
> Please understand, I absolutely support your right to criticize products you
> don't like, and in fact actively encourage you to do so, because it helps us
> make better products. And I personally apologize for your dissatisfaction with
> Sierra products. But it's frustrating to read "Sierra sucks," because it's not
> useful at all, to me or to anyone else.
>
I think that people are allowed to know, that choosing the game to buy
by
a company name is a mistake!
> --Don Munsil
> Team Larry 7
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Don Munsil | Never ascribe to malevolence what
> dmu...@wolfenet.com | can adequately be explained by
> | stupidity.
For your information I’ve paid $70 (400dkr) for SIERRA’S “Urban Runner”
and I consider it
a waste of money!
When I tried to return game to the shop, they wouldn’t take it, for game
was unpacked.
I don’t blame them!
I blame Sierra for saying on the package, that the game is “a cinematic
thriller” or whatever it was.
The game was not a thriller, but a comedy.
From acting and directing to the interactive part: “Whom would you like
to do first, him or her?”
And I blame myself for being naive and buying “Sierra-game”! I honestly
didn’t think that Sierra could
be selling something like that for that money!
In the end I sold it to a second-hand shop for 15$. That makes 55$ for 3
hours of exercising in pain.
I’ve played about 80% of the game, and I was so disappointed and
annoyed, that I didn’t want
to play any further.
I haven’t seen one message in this newsgroup, saying that someone liked
“Urban Runner”,
but if someone did, please tell me how would you like it if you had paid
70$ for it?
--
Anatoli.
Mary James
Ken Williams (ke...@seanet.com) wrote:
: <clap> <clap> <clap>! I've been saying that around here, but have been
: able to convince people that anyone other than me remembers Laura Bow.
: -Ken
Hi Ken:
Laura Bow was a terrific game. I would like to see another Laura Bow.
BTW, Sierra may have problems with its game bugs sometimes, but I have
enjoyed many Sierra games, and any time I have had a problem, they have
sent me a replacement disk/cd, whatever, free with no problems.
I particularly liked Gabriel Knight 1 and 2, Shivers, KQ6 and 7, and a
lot of others. Some people didn't like KQ7. I thought it was the best
Kings Quest game. I am looking forard to Roberta's next Kings Quest.
Keep the adventure games coming Ken!
Sierra has made a lot of great games.
Mary
JenKeen
>
> You mean that I can send the game back to Sierra saying:" Here's your
> game, I didn't
> like it, so please send me my money back"?
>
Yep, that's exactly what that means. You need to have a receipt or
something that shows how much you paid for the game, though. Sierra will
refund the purchase price within 30 days, from 30-90 days you can exchange
for another Sierra title (I would recommend Larry7! <g>). We don't want you
to get stuck with something you don't like and won't play. Check your game
documentation, the addresses and phone numbers for refunds/exchanges are in
there. If you're in the US, you can call 1-800-757-7707 for full info.
Hope this helps!
JenK
Larry 7 Team
Anatoli Vassilina
As I said, I got rid of the game right away.
I'm in Europe. I don’t remember mention of refund of any kind in the
package I purchased.
Only that I could exchange game if there were some defects.
Even if I'm wrong, it would cost me another 20 bucks to ship the game to
USA.
I'm not interested in Larry games, but read what people say about
Phantasmagoria 2. Or about Sierra on-line ordering.
Sierra...
--
Anatoli.
Jennifer Keenan
> I'm in Europe. I don’t remember mention of refund of any kind in the
> package I purchased.
> Only that I could exchange game if there were some defects.
> Even if I'm wrong, it would cost me another 20 bucks to ship the game to
> USA.
There are European addresses for refunds/exchanges in the documentation as
well, so you don't have to send all the way back to the States. If you get
other Sierra games, don't feel like you're stuck if you don't like them. :)
>
> I'm not interested in Larry games, but read what people say about
> Phantasmagoria 2. Or about Sierra on-line ordering.
> Sierra...
I forwarded the messages about Phantas and the on-line ordering problem to
the appropriate people, thanks!
Don Munsil
In article <32AC85...@mail.me>, Anatoli Vassilina <do...@mail.me> wrote:
>You mean that I can send the game back to Sierra saying:" Here's your
>game, I didn't
>like it, so please send me my money back"?
Yes, exactly. It might work differently abroad, but in general you have 30
days to return the product+receipt+a note saying why you didn't like it.
We refund 100% of your purchase price, even if you didn't buy it from us.
It's an amazing and un-heard-of policy in the game business. But that's
Ken's way. If you don't like a game, we don't want to lose you as a
customer. Send it back; maybe you'll like the next game.
>I think that people are allowed to know, that choosing the game to buy
>by
>a company name is a mistake!
Well, you always need to make sure that the game you are buying is going
to be what you want, but I think in general Sierra's games are overall
higher quality than many producers of games (though there are many other
good game companies, don't get me wrong). And more than any other company,
buying a Sierra game is less of a risk because you can get your money
back. At worst you're out some postage; that's a lot better than getting
stuck for the full $50.
>For your information I’ve paid $70 (400dkr) for SIERRA’S “Urban Runner”
>and I consider it
>a waste of money!
We can't please everyone. I can't comment on Urban Runner; I haven't
played it.
>When I tried to return game to the shop, they wouldn’t take it, for game
>was unpacked.
>I don’t blame them!
I would; I think retail stores that don't accept returns are being
incredibly short-sighted. All it takes is one bad experience with a
product that the customer can't get working and that customer is lost
forever. Here's a short list of some US companies that accept returns on
ANYTHING, no questions asked:
Wal-Mart
Price Costco
Nordstrom
Sears
L.L. Bean
Lands' End
There are many more. Any common thread? All are incredibly successful. And
they all feel that losing a customer is worse than losing money on a
single sale. Sierra feels the same way.
<lots of complaints about Urban Runner snipped>
Again, I'm sorry you didn't like the game, but I don't think any one game
necessarily is representative of the 30-40 games Sierra released in
1996. And I'm especially sorry you didn't notice the money-back guarantee
and take advantage of it. But you'll know next time.
--Don
--
------------------------------------------------------
Don Munsil | I respect faith, but doubt is
d...@munsil.com | what gets you an education.
dmu...@wolfenet.com | -- Wilson Mizner
Sven
[dmu...@WOLFENET.COM (Don Munsil), comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure]:
>I would; I think retail stores that don't accept returns are being
>incredibly short-sighted. All it takes is one bad experience with a
>product that the customer can't get working and that customer is lost
>forever.
Certainly true. I bought a game from a 'spaceworld', a norwegian
electronics dealer, a few years ago. I hated it--the game absolutely
stunk. I tried to return it and got nothing but a pretty offensive
sales representative. Since then I've _never_ bought anything from
them and I recommend my friends to shop elsewhere.
>Again, I'm sorry you didn't like the game, but I don't think any one game
>necessarily is representative of the 30-40 games Sierra released in
>1996. And I'm especially sorry you didn't notice the money-back guarantee
>and take advantage of it. But you'll know next time.
Hmm.. I've never played Urban Runner, but I have played all of the
Sierra games (still have the original no.1 lying about), and I'd like
to give you my opinions on them. Larry 1 - 2 was great, of course,
though the second had its boring moments. The third is a classic--the
best Larry yet. It was inventive and had a great setting, and I felt
like I _was_ being Larry (though that may sound like something
negative <chuckle>. Anyway, the fifth (fourth) was horrible. The plot
was abysmal and so was the way you controlled Larry. The early
implementation of the point and click way of adventuring really
screwed up a lot of Sierra games. Both SQ4 and KQ5 suffered from it
and to this day I regret I purchased them all. Larry 6 was great--and
a million times better than its predecessor. The setting wasn't too
hot--it felt too restricted, but there was plenty of interesting
puzzles and the music was fab.
Recognizing that Sierra has recovered from the rather bad '93, '94 and
'95 (even Quest for Glory 3 stunk :( ...) makes the decision of wether
I will buy LSL 7 or not an easy decision. I can now buy Sierra games
again because I trust you to deliver good games and the ones I've
bought this year supports this (Phantasmagoria (although this one
_was_ weak), GK2, QFG4, Torin's Passage and..hmm..a couple of others I
don't rememer just now). I will buy LSL 7 and I'm looking forward to
it :)
Sven
PS! Sorry about mailing you twice. Hit the wrong button (mail/news) to
begin with and the ball just kept rolling <g>...
Ken Williams
I just posted this message to get a better name going on the thread.
As long as I'm here posting, I would like to comment on a prior message
regarding Urban Runner...
Urban Runner was a flawed game. It spent several years in development,
and several million dollars into development we decided that we had a
product that was never going to be 'of Sierra quality.' We had already
announced and advertised the product, but were not satisfied with it. I
decided to release the product, but at a budget price. Urban Runner was
released at $19 suggested retail - which I felt was a very good
price/value proposition. The product was flawed, but it wasn't a total
waste of time. $19 for a 4 CD FMV product is not a bad deal.
Some retailers did not get our message about the price decrease and sold
some copies at $70 -- this didn't happen many times, but it did happen.
We refunded a hand full of people $70 even though the retailers only
paid us about $12 for the product -- and did so with a smile. This is
the Sierra way of doing business. I am proud of how we handled Urban
Runner. I'm not delighted that we shipped a non-perfect product, but it
is almost impossible to develop a Sierra quality product, so it doesn't
surprise me that even we have trouble doing it 100% of the time.
Thanks! - Ken Williams, Sierra
Anatoli Vassilina
Thanks!
I'm sure this will help many people.
--
Anatoli.
Anatoli Vassilina
Ken Williams wrote:
>
> I just posted this message to get a better name going on the thread.
>
> As long as I'm here posting, I would like to comment on a prior message
> regarding Urban Runner...
> Urban Runner was a flawed game. It spent several years in development,
> and several million dollars into development we decided that we had a
> product that was never going to be 'of Sierra quality.' We had already
> announced and advertised the product, but were not satisfied with it. I
> decided to release the product, but at a budget price. Urban Runner was
> released at $19 suggested retail - which I felt was a very good
> price/value proposition. The product was flawed, but it wasn't a total
> waste of time. $19 for a 4 CD FMV product is not a bad deal.
And it doesn’t matter that the game was advertised as a game of “Sierra
quality”!
As you said, you started advertising it before you knew what the game
would turn to be.
In other words: “Why give them what they expect, if they’ll take what we
give them?!”
> Some retailers did not get our message about the price decrease and sold
> some copies at $70 -- this didn't happen many times, but it did happen.
> We refunded a hand full of people $70 even though the retailers only
> paid us about $12 for the product -- and did so with a smile. This is
> the Sierra way of doing business. I am proud of how we handled Urban
> Runner. I'm not delighted that we shipped a non-perfect product, but it
> is almost impossible to develop a Sierra quality product, so it doesn't
> surprise me that even we have trouble doing it 100% of the time.
It doesn’t surprise me either, just don’t advertise your product before
you know it’s value.
> Thanks! - Ken Williams, Sierra
--
Anatoli.
RoyBoy
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [Image]
> Commonwealth Network
RoyBoy
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [Image]
> Commonwealth Network
RoyBoy
Ken Williams
I prefer this name for the thread, and believe it much more reflective
of reality.
-Ken