The Longest Journey - Help needed !
Pedro - Telepac
TIA,
Pedro.
Charybdis
become stronger.....
ADDITIONAL
Get the shard of glass from his mirror and the note. You need to know
about his wife before his eye will drop out.
- Richard
Sven-Erik Ilmander
You need something from his locker.
Sven-Erik Ilmander
Ashikaga
question that is related to adventure games ;-)). I think I need some
money for my cash card, but Stanley won't give me any salary if I
don't have the time sheet. Where is it?
Ashikaga
"Pedro - Telepac" <rdd3...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message
news:394953A9...@mail.telepac.pt...
Rune Espeseth
>
> I have a question too (It's been a while since the last time I asked a
> question that is related to adventure games ;-)). I think I need some
> money for my cash card, but Stanley won't give me any salary if I
> don't have the time sheet. Where is it?
>
> Ashikaga
Take a look at the Diary (in your inventory, or in April's room if you
haven't picked it up yet.)
--
Regards,
Rune Espeseth,
Programmer / Funcom / Current project: Anarchy Online
"Nothing is impossible. The impossible only takes more time."
Ashikaga
Ashikaga
"Rune Espeseth" <run...@funcom.com> wrote in message
news:3949E62C...@funcom.com...
A. Thlon
>On Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:07:37 +0100, Pedro - Telepac
><rdd3...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
>>How do I get hold of Sgt. Frank Minelli's eye while he's in the can ?
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>>TIA,
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>>Pedro.
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>Turn off the light. Than replace the eye.
Personally I found this one as the most illogical riddle in the whole
game. If Minelly CAN see me exchanging his eye while the light is
turned on why CAN'T he see it while the light is turned off in the
toilet? The eye droppes OUT OF the toilet where there's still light
and I don't know how it is for others but I can see things in the
light MUCH better if I sit in the dark than if I sit in the light
myself so normally you would expect Minelly to see April exchanging
the eye even better if you turn off the light in the toilet.
Ragnar Tornquist
news:vlskksstgak97euut...@4ax.com...
> Personally I found this one as the most illogical riddle in the whole
> game. If Minelly CAN see me exchanging his eye while the light is
> turned on why CAN'T he see it while the light is turned off in the
> toilet? The eye droppes OUT OF the toilet where there's still light
> and I don't know how it is for others but I can see things in the
> light MUCH better if I sit in the dark than if I sit in the light
> myself so normally you would expect Minelly to see April exchanging
> the eye even better if you turn off the light in the toilet.
Ah, but you're forgetting one important thing:
Our logic doesn't resemble your Earth-logic. Ours is, in fact, better.
(so there)
:)
/ragnar
Charybdis
have become stronger.....
>Our logic doesn't resemble your Earth-logic. Ours is, in fact, better.
Really? I seem to recall this being Stark......
So how do you explain away Minelli not spotting you mixing his sweet
with kerosene two steps away even though he's looking in that
direction :-?
- Richard
Ragnar Tornquist
news:394c1464...@news.freenetname.co.uk...
Tunnel vision, my dear Richard. Very, very narrow tunnel vision.
Either that or he was momentarily taken with a case of
serious...uh...blindness.
And I thought you, of all people, were an intelligent and creative man. Are
you telling me you didn't *get* that?
Huh.
/ragnar
Charybdis
have become stronger.....
>Either that or he was momentarily taken with a case of
>serious...uh...blindness.
>
>And I thought you, of all people, were an intelligent and creative man. Are
>you telling me you didn't *get* that?
Ouch. You should have said "He has a glass eye - his depth perception
is awful and he thought you were overn Venice!" :-) Anyway, do you
want me to get started on the non-conductivity of gold rings, or do
you want to start replying to the other plot holes and problems by
blaming Arcadian magic seeping through the worlds? :-)
One thing I want to clear up now though - even though you might have
sifted through a lot of criticism, a lot of bitching and a lot of
plot-ripping I think I speak for everyone in the group (who has played
it - Pedant Police) in saying that it was a great adventure game and
you guys did a great job. Having said that, allow me to reprint the
comments section from my Capsule Review...I had plenty of others, and
other people came up with some examples and other plot holes - but
this will do for a start.
Smug answers are allowed. Saying "Ooops, we didn't think of that" is
allowed. Saying "It's because of magic" is not
:-/
CONFESS!!!!!!!!!!
OK, some people suggested solutions to a few of these, but not many
:-)
___
Cortez escaping from the Vanguard? Are you KIDDING me? That whole
prison thing made the Han Solo "freezing in carbonite" scene look like
a picnic - and if that wasn't the reference then I'll be stunned
(NOTE: If McAllen was also a dragon, and no, I'm not going to type
that in in gamespeak) surely he'd have taken that into account when
trapping Cortez)
"Does it ever bother you that you sound like a bad play?" and similar
lines - very funny and a nice piss take.
The first few chapters were incredibly boring - but it improved a lot
after that. However, the names of the chapters were painfully
unoriginal and cliched : "Friends and Enemies" "Shadows" "The Return
of the Fungal Arse Welt" - just not new..
Quite a few continuity glitches - April bought a week long pass, but
she comments that she spent that long in Arcadia but doesn't need a
new one. Likewise when she steps through the first Shift, it closed
behind her - but when the camera moves the doorway to the alley is
still there. There were others, but those are the ones that stood out
- for example in the flophouse you are told "There are 4 guys waiting
for you downstairs" which there aren't. I also want to know why
Halloway didn't get his fingers crushed - given that he was hanging
onto a symbol which later became the floor - but comes in through the
door! My favourite one was with Zack - he opens his door, comes
outside, closes it, turns to April - and then threatens to slam the
door in her face! ROFL!!!! How come she needed a fake ID to get up
to the next level even though no such fixed class system is ever
mentioned again and she's already been shopping in the clothes store?
Can you get a day pass? If so, why not? Why is that level so
important in any case - it sells pizza! Why would the recruitment
system for the slaves (colonisers) be in the rich part of town if they
presumably want those people who have nothing else to live for? Why
does the Vanguard have actual power over people if the corporations
are the ones who run the show - I can understand influence, but
actually having their fancy dress clad goons running around with
blasters?
Shouldn't the Vanguard ALSO be looking for the gemstones and such? As
I recall they don't even know that April exists at the start....
How come the worlds threaten to merge only at the start - nothing
should have happened until the new Guardian started. And why didn't
elements of Stark appear in Arcadia? Or anybody seem especially
bothered about suddenly sititng in a rainforest? If April is a sort
of anchor on reality, then why did the only changes occur in places
where she was / had been recently - isn't that completely the wrong
way around?
"Hiya girlfriend, could ya BE any more irritating? Like, hello?"7
Crow : Liked him. However, how could he be pulled through a Shift
without getting mashed? Remember what other people said about non
Shifters trying.
Did we really need so much swearing? I'm not prudish, and I wasn't
offended - don't get me wrong - but it seemed cheaply thrown in.
Especially the infamous "If I wasn't such a f**king nice guy" speech."
Why was Arcadia seeping through to Stark, but not vice versa.
Why was Arcadia seeping through to Stark for that matter. If it would
happen naturally, why bother with a new Guardian?
Why does April provide stability by her presence if she isn't the new
Guardian and the Guardian has no power in any case until installed in
the Tower?
If April provides stability, why does all the world shifting happen
around her? And why does that stop after a while?
Stark was really well worked out, and the humour was often extremely
funny - but Arcadia was really just another off the peg fantasy world.
It was nicely done, but I got really tired of it duiring the middle
part of the game - perhaps next time they could break it up a bit more
or add a bit of a twist to it - a la Simon the Sorcerer or Kingdom
O'Magic. At least they didn't make the mistake of throwing in every
fairytale in existence. However I would personally have spend more
time in the city - the sci fi references were priceless.
Roper Klacks. OK, the idea of a challenge is reasonable and the
choices were funny - but puh-lease? HOW many chances?
The plot was pretty predictable - the second that people started going
on about the two Stark dragons it was clear exactly who Cortez was.
Likewise with the storyteller's identity.
The Book of Secrets was a nice touch, even if only to confirm my
suspicion that the actress playing April really was on crack
throughout the entire thing. It's just a shame that there were no
really funny outtakes.
While I approve of not killing off the player every two seconds, it
made the last parts of the game seem really, really pointless - that
Resident Evil outcast in the lab not being able to touch you
completely shot the ambience.
The entire game is a struggle to prevent the reunification of Stark
and Arcadia - yet that's exactly what happens and nobody gives a damn?
Weird....
How come not one single person realised that April was not due to be
the Guardian? And if Adrian claimed to be from Stark (as he did at
one point IIRC) why was he so obsessed with and reminiscent of an
Arcadian. And why did he have to leave the Tower anyway? How could
the Vanguard put their own guy in if the Tower itself chose the next
one?
"Have you ever heard of the Church of Voltec?" Er..no. And in fact
nobody else even bothers to mention them again except when you broach
the subject.
"They're angry at you for not telling them the truth." Actually, she
did - remember?
AAAARGH! Look guys, I know that battles are hard to render - but
occasionally could we SEE the armies of evil crashing down upon the
town instead of a cut away shot and a later narrative
How the HELL is anybody without April's exact inventory meant to
complete those last trials? This is a frequent problem with the genre
- I know - but this seemed so artificial, especially retrieving the
water from the well. How would anyone else do it - perhaps by making a
pole vault out of a few matchsticks? More importantly, if it's a
trial for the Guardian - why was SHE able to do it?
"Don't try to Shift - there are magical barriers in place around this
building." Hmmm. Yeah - I believe you. Especially when standing on
the hoverpad....why didn't they equip the Tyren with machine guns or
something if such cross-world stuff is available?
DON'T try to do non-linear time references. Always a bad idea.
VILLAIN MISTAKE 101 : Assume that killing somebody will make them talk
and give you the vital information that you require. Mr.
McAllen....take notes. For extra credit, always do it in your
technologically advanced lab with a non-password protected computer
and your vault.
I'm pleased to see that in the future low polygon 3D rendering will be
recognised as an art form. Sorry guys, but I could render a more
convincing dragon in my sleep :-) Maybe it would work as a Quake skin
though.....
If the Vanguard didn't know where the wormhole was, why was Adrian on
the station and Halloway ready with the capsule? (potential answer :
Halloway got the map earlier than April - but even so it doesn't quite
work - why wait around?)
How were former Guardians able to get to the wormhole without the
assistance of spaceships?
"A race of Warrior Shifters"? Why? You have two perfectly good
armies already.....sounds to me like a plot thread in search of a
point.
"I'm in my undies. That is so....not appropriate" Hmmm. Me thinks
somebody hath been overgorging thyself on Instant Heat. But in
fairness, at least April's taste in underwear was to the expansive and
not lingerie - so I don't think that Funcom ticked off half their
audience. But after the first time, don't you think she might have
worn a little more - just in case?
Funcom - sorry - I can't take that name seriously. (snigger)
The diary entries were well written and the conversation log was very
helpful.
"I look like a serving maid." "I look like a real pirate." MAKE UP
YOUR MIND!!!!!
If that watch is symbolic of Cortez's heart then why did you have to
wind it earlier :-?
If April goes back to Stark then isn't she guilty of running away from
her colonisation agreement and subject to instant imprisonment? Not
to mention anybody that Vanguard still has left who are presumably
still in control ("Our leaders have been killed. Alright guys - pack
up and let's start a range of chip shops!")
When did April accrue enough money to buy an outfit from that
expensive store?
Stupid puzzles. Everyone knows about the rubber duck one, but why
couldn't (for example) Crow have flown the rope across the chasm and
wrapped it round a tree instead of messing around with a catapult? If
the dragons know as much as they are meant to, how come they know
absolutely nothing? They are frankly the Wizard of Oz of the oracle
business :-)
Who taught Adrian and Halloway to fight? It was like Final Fantasy -
one takes a turn, the other takes a turn. JUST PUNCH HIM OUT!
Ack! Adventurer's Logic - I don't think that, for example, the
policeman would not notice you soaking his sweet in kerosene about two
steps in front of him. Or not recognising the fact that you don't
sound like Hernandez....and as for Officer Guybrush (subtle, guys,
subtle - and I liked Calavera Blvd. or whatever it was called outside
the police station)
Anybody else think it weird that all of April's outfits (barring
underwear, but that wasn't especially different) were the same shape -
just different colours? Not to mention that the one she wears on the
box only appears in the game for about five minutes. Oh, and that her
hair is the wrong colour :-)
That ending. Suuuuuuuuuuuuck! If you're going to do a big ceremony,
LET'S SEE THE DAMNED THING!!!!!!! Too many of those events were
behind closed doors - the ending, the Vanguard, the Marcurian war, the
concert, the date with Zack......
Why is the Chaos Whirl bad given that it's in a world of chaos? And
what exactly was it meant to have DONE other than spin?
- Richard
Ragnar Tornquist
Oooh boy, this is gonna be a long one...
> >Either that or he was momentarily taken with a case of
> >serious...uh...blindness.
> Ouch. You should have said "He has a glass eye - his depth perception
> is awful and he thought you were overn Venice!" :-) Anyway, do you
That's correct! Ah, you failed to see through my simple deception whereupon
you presented the right answer yourself. It's just too easy.
> want me to get started on the non-conductivity of gold rings, or do
> you want to start replying to the other plot holes and problems by
> blaming Arcadian magic seeping through the worlds? :-)
Yes. Well, magic *was* seeping through, wasn't it? As for the gold
ring...let's just say Daddy-O was a very, very cheap man, and that alloy may
have *looked* like gold to an inexperienced eye. So there.
> Smug answers are allowed. Saying "Ooops, we didn't think of that" is
> allowed. Saying "It's because of magic" is not
I can be smug. I can be smugness incarnate. But here's the thing: What if it
*is* magic? Should I lie? I refuse to lie! Actually, there's a good answer
for pretty much all of the points you brought up, and although it's getting
late, I'm up for the challenge :)
(scroll down, but BEWARE! spoilers ahead)
> CONFESS!!!!!!!!!!
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> OK, some people suggested solutions to a few of these, but not many
> :-)
>
> ___
>
> Cortez escaping from the Vanguard? Are you KIDDING me? That whole
> prison thing made the Han Solo "freezing in carbonite" scene look like
> a picnic - and if that wasn't the reference then I'll be stunned
Ah, perhaps, but not consciously so...at least not on my part. So consider
yourself stunned. True, the artists may have been inspired by Mr Solo's
plight (I'd be surprised if they weren't), but I didn't catch the reference
until you mentioned it.
As for how Cortez escapes imprisonment -- keep in mind that he was a *lot*
more powerful than he let on. Even then, his escape was no easy feat, and if
there is ever a sequel...well, Cortez will most definitely make an
appearance, in some way, shape or form, and his imprisonment will be
revisited...amongst other things. I mean, didn't anyone wonder what kind of
contraption he was trapped in for so long? Cortez is a very complex
character, and I didn't even scratch the surface. I'd let you read my
notes...but then I'd probably have to torture you, kill you, and bury your
body somewhere in New Jersey. And we wouldn't want that, would we?
> (NOTE: If McAllen was also a dragon, and no, I'm not going to type
> that in in gamespeak) surely he'd have taken that into account when
> trapping Cortez)
Of course. But after capturing Cortez, McAllen's attention turned away from
his brother to the girl, April, who was becoming such a hindrance -- yet
unwillingly, and surprisingly, a great assistance -- to his grand scheme. He
was, in other words, fascinated and preoccupied by the events unfolding
before his eyes, to Cortez's advantage.
> "Does it ever bother you that you sound like a bad play?" and similar
> lines - very funny and a nice piss take.
We try not to take ourselves *too* seriously. Thanks :)
> The first few chapters were incredibly boring - but it improved a lot
> after that. However, the names of the chapters were painfully
> unoriginal and cliched : "Friends and Enemies" "Shadows" "The Return
> of the Fungal Arse Welt" - just not new..
The weird thing is that, according to some people, those first few chapters
are the high points of the game, and it's all downhill from there on. It
just goes to show that you can't please all the people all the time. The
story takes a while to get started, but that was the intention all along. We
wanted to build the suspense, and although the second and third chapters are
long, they serve a purpose.
Regarding the chapter names, do they really have to be *new*? I like playing
on literary and cultural references and preconceived notions, and the
feelings of familiarity associated with my -- admittedly, often clichéd --
chapter headings are usually turned topsy-turvy somewhere along the line.
That was always my intention. Obviously, it didn't work quite as well as I'd
hoped, but there you go.
> Quite a few continuity glitches - April bought a week long pass, but
> she comments that she spent that long in Arcadia but doesn't need a
Dammit. Didn't think anyone would notice! Yes, you're right, I knew about
that one, but I just didn't want to deal with it. Having to buy a new pass
would've just wrecked the pacing upon her return to Stark. No biggie. Hey,
maybe the ticket system was glitched? It could happen.
> new one. Likewise when she steps through the first Shift, it closed
> behind her - but when the camera moves the doorway to the alley is
Yup, we spotted this early on, but we never had time to go back and fix the
video sequence. We were strapped for time, and again, I didn't really expect
people to notice, or to be bothered by it. Perhaps we'll fix it for the
American release :)
> still there. There were others, but those are the ones that stood out
> - for example in the flophouse you are told "There are 4 guys waiting
> for you downstairs" which there aren't. I also want to know why
You just didn't see 'em! They were there, all right, lurking in the shadows,
preying on the unsuspecting. Or maybe the kid was lying? Maybe he was just
trying to scare April.
> Halloway didn't get his fingers crushed - given that he was hanging
> onto a symbol which later became the floor - but comes in through the
> door! My favourite one was with Zack - he opens his door, comes
He jumped off before the disc reached the top. Fact.
> outside, closes it, turns to April - and then threatens to slam the
> door in her face! ROFL!!!! How come she needed a fake ID to get up
<cough> Yeah, well, you got me on that one. The dialogue didn't *quite* mesh
with the action.
> to the next level even though no such fixed class system is ever
> mentioned again and she's already been shopping in the clothes store?
Ah, but you misunderstood her! She'd been to that *chain* of stores before
(in her home town), but never to that particular store. And the fixed class
system isn't mentioned much, simply because it's never an issue. The action,
for the most part, sticks to the street level, and she only needs to go up
in that one chapter. The class system is always there -- we just ignored it
for the most part.
> Can you get a day pass? If so, why not? Why is that level so
> important in any case - it sells pizza! Why would the recruitment
No day passes. If there were, would the upper levels be as exclusive and its
citizens as envied as they are? The middle classes stick to the mid-level,
the working classes, students, artists and the poor to the bottom
level...and as for the top level, well -- does "rats" and "sinking ship"
suffice?
The level system is important in that it "protects" the middle and upper
classes from the "filth and degradation" of the street levels. So what if
the mid-level is a glorified shopping mall; isn't that what middle-America
wants? And besides, it's really, really *good* pizza.
> system for the slaves (colonisers) be in the rich part of town if they
> presumably want those people who have nothing else to live for? Why
Good point. However, there are probably recruitment-centres in other parts
of town -- we just don't get to see them. And the colonies want the middle
classes too; they don't discriminate. Labour is labour.
> does the Vanguard have actual power over people if the corporations
> are the ones who run the show - I can understand influence, but
The Vanguard -- or, actually, MTI -- is the biggest corporation there is.
They have power. Lots of it. You didn't get to see the extent of it in TLJ,
but if there's ever a sequel...yeah, yeah, it's a cheap-shot, but it's true.
There's so much we wanted to show, so many stories to tell, we couldn't get
around to all of it in thirteen chapters!
> actually having their fancy dress clad goons running around with
> blasters?
I didn't understand your point with this one.
> Shouldn't the Vanguard ALSO be looking for the gemstones and such? As
> I recall they don't even know that April exists at the start....
They *are* looking for the stones. It's just that their influence in Arcadia
is quite inadequate at the beginning of the game. And they know that there's
something wrong, some kind of new force to be reckoned with. They just don't
know exactly *what*, or *where*. They home in on her after a while, though.
> How come the worlds threaten to merge only at the start - nothing
> should have happened until the new Guardian started. And why didn't
The worlds didn't threaten to merge. There was the threat of chaos, as magic
leaked into the realm of logic, and (eventually) vice-versa, but only a
Guardian could consciously reunite the two worlds. That's what McAllen
wanted to do, to put his puppet on the throne, and reap the benefits of his
actions.
> elements of Stark appear in Arcadia? Or anybody seem especially
> bothered about suddenly sititng in a rainforest? If April is a sort
As I recall, Fiona seemed pretty freaked out, as did April. Chaos is a
considerable force, and since this was a much more prevalent element of
Arcadia -- a realm of magic -- chaos was bound to make an impact on Stark
before the opposite occured, and the forces of order and logic began
affecting magic. But it would've happened, sooner or later.
> of anchor on reality, then why did the only changes occur in places
> where she was / had been recently - isn't that completely the wrong
> way around?
It happened elsewhere too, as Fiona mentioned in chapter one (or two).
Motion in the corner of the eye, strange visions, dreams...that sort of
thing.
> "Hiya girlfriend, could ya BE any more irritating? Like, hello?"7
I *like* her!
> Crow : Liked him. However, how could he be pulled through a Shift
> without getting mashed? Remember what other people said about non
> Shifters trying.
Yup. But again, there's more to Crow than meets the eye. Besides, this was a
Shift into the Guardian's Realm, and remember that April's powers are also
largely unexplored...it could very well be that this was a manifestation of
that. Also, remember what Westhouse said? There are ways for non-Shifters to
pass through the Divide, but they're not necessarily very pleasant.
> Did we really need so much swearing? I'm not prudish, and I wasn't
> offended - don't get me wrong - but it seemed cheaply thrown in.
> Especially the infamous "If I wasn't such a f**king nice guy" speech."
Ah, a point of contention in this newsgroup. Do we need swearing? Certainly
not. Does it stir up people's emotions? Definitely. I stand by the cursing,
although I do admit that it can be a little excessive...but I let the
actors, uh, explore their characters :)
> Why was Arcadia seeping through to Stark, but not vice versa.
See above. Chaos was ravaging both worlds, but Arcadia was more resilient to
its powers. Again, it would've happened eventually, had April not been
around.
> Why was Arcadia seeping through to Stark for that matter. If it would
> happen naturally, why bother with a new Guardian?
The reunification of the worlds wouldn't happen naturally. Although the
seeping-through bit was a gradual wearing down of artificial borders by the
elemental forces of chaos unleashed, the result would only be apocalypse,
and not a single, reunited realm of Earth.
> Why does April provide stability by her presence if she isn't the new
> Guardian and the Guardian has no power in any case until installed in
> the Tower?
Because April has powers of her own that remain a mystery by the end of the
game. Her story doesn't end, and I hope some day I'll be able to tell the
rest of it!
> If April provides stability, why does all the world shifting happen
> around her? And why does that stop after a while?
She brings a bit of stability to the worlds...but only after embarking on
her quest, and learning the truth from Cortez.
> Stark was really well worked out, and the humour was often extremely
> funny - but Arcadia was really just another off the peg fantasy world.
> It was nicely done, but I got really tired of it duiring the middle
> part of the game - perhaps next time they could break it up a bit more
> or add a bit of a twist to it - a la Simon the Sorcerer or Kingdom
> O'Magic. At least they didn't make the mistake of throwing in every
> fairytale in existence. However I would personally have spend more
> time in the city - the sci fi references were priceless.
Thanks...and you think so? I was pretty happy with the way Arcadia came off,
although I do wish there'd been more of a show of magic. It didn't always
seem to be as magical as Stark was mechanical.
> Roper Klacks. OK, the idea of a challenge is reasonable and the
> choices were funny - but puh-lease? HOW many chances?
Hey, he was insane! IN-sane!
> The plot was pretty predictable - the second that people started going
> on about the two Stark dragons it was clear exactly who Cortez was.
> Likewise with the storyteller's identity.
You're smarter than the average bear, Richard :) A lot of people were
surprised, but we did drop quite a few hints along the way.
> The Book of Secrets was a nice touch, even if only to confirm my
> suspicion that the actress playing April really was on crack
> throughout the entire thing. It's just a shame that there were no
> really funny outtakes.
We had a whole lot of fun recording thirteen hours of dialogue in ten days,
let me tell you. After a while, we *all* sounded like we were on crack.
> While I approve of not killing off the player every two seconds, it
> made the last parts of the game seem really, really pointless - that
> Resident Evil outcast in the lab not being able to touch you
> completely shot the ambience.
True. That didn't come off as well as it should have, but I firmly stand by
my no-killing rule. Killing is bad. Especially in an adventure.
> The entire game is a struggle to prevent the reunification of Stark
> and Arcadia - yet that's exactly what happens and nobody gives a damn?
> Weird....
Stark and Arcadia were *not* reunited by the end. That was going to happen
at some point in the future, but not yet. The worlds weren't ready. Gordon,
the new Guardian, reinstated the Balance, and channeled the forces of chaos
and order, magic and science between the twin worlds, restoring the state of
the universe to a perfect equilibrium. But he didn't reunite the worlds.
That would happen later, as the old woman said when she wrapped up her
story.
> How come not one single person realised that April was not due to be
> the Guardian? And if Adrian claimed to be from Stark (as he did at
People had suspicions, but her role seemed pretty clear-cut. She was a lot
more complex than even Cortez gave her credit for, and her fate would bring
her to even stranger locations after her adventures in TLJ.
> one point IIRC) why was he so obsessed with and reminiscent of an
> Arcadian. And why did he have to leave the Tower anyway? How could
Adrian looked like an Arcadian, because he was from a Stark a thousand years
into the past, and because he was trained in Arcadia to become a Guardian.
He left the tower because he had to, because no person can exist without a
soul, in solitude, for more than one thousand years. Tobias says this in his
looong speech to April.
> the Vanguard put their own guy in if the Tower itself chose the next
> one?
The Balance had chosen Gordon, but the Vanguard tried to twist him to their
own purposes, in order to control him from afar. Obviously, they failed, and
so the Balance chose another Guardian...or so everyone believed. In reality,
it chose April to bring the two halves of Gordon back together, so that he
could take his place as a true Guardian of the Balance. It's all in there!
You just have to look for it.
> "Have you ever heard of the Church of Voltec?" Er..no. And in fact
> nobody else even bothers to mention them again except when you broach
> the subject.
True. Their position in the world of Stark is unexplored, as mentioned
above. There's much more to be told about them, and hopefully, some day, I
will.
> "They're angry at you for not telling them the truth." Actually, she
> did - remember?
Uh, okay. My bad. Well, come on, she *did* lie about some things, at least
to begin with!
> AAAARGH! Look guys, I know that battles are hard to render - but
> occasionally could we SEE the armies of evil crashing down upon the
> town instead of a cut away shot and a later narrative
I'd have loved to see that, but there just wasn't enough money or time to do
it! Fact! We'll just have to use our imaginations.
> How the HELL is anybody without April's exact inventory meant to
> complete those last trials? This is a frequent problem with the genre
> - I know - but this seemed so artificial, especially retrieving the
> water from the well. How would anyone else do it - perhaps by making a
I agree, but this is hard to avoid in an adventure. More careful design
could have made it more elegant, but then again, people accept some quirks
from the genre. I know I do.
> pole vault out of a few matchsticks? More importantly, if it's a
> trial for the Guardian - why was SHE able to do it?
Ah, good question. Again, April is a very powerful young girl, and her role
has yet to be fully explored.
> "Don't try to Shift - there are magical barriers in place around this
> building." Hmmm. Yeah - I believe you. Especially when standing on
> the hoverpad....why didn't they equip the Tyren with machine guns or
> something if such cross-world stuff is available?
Good question. I think mechanical devices would be susceptible to
malfunction in Arcadia, but I honestly can't tell you how reliable magic is
in Stark. Maybe he was bluffing? Or maybe those barries required McAllen's
constant attention?
> DON'T try to do non-linear time references. Always a bad idea.
Huh?
> VILLAIN MISTAKE 101 : Assume that killing somebody will make them talk
> and give you the vital information that you require. Mr.
> McAllen....take notes. For extra credit, always do it in your
> technologically advanced lab with a non-password protected computer
> and your vault.
Yeah, well, he makes fun of that himself at some point. So there!
> I'm pleased to see that in the future low polygon 3D rendering will be
> recognised as an art form. Sorry guys, but I could render a more
> convincing dragon in my sleep :-) Maybe it would work as a Quake skin
> though.....
If you can do a more convincing dragon in your sleep...you're hired!
> If the Vanguard didn't know where the wormhole was, why was Adrian on
> the station and Halloway ready with the capsule? (potential answer :
> Halloway got the map earlier than April - but even so it doesn't quite
> work - why wait around?)
They got the map from Burns Flipper, remember? And then they left
immediately. Of course Gordon had the resources to take off from Earth on a
second's notice. After all, he had the entire force of the Vanguard behind
him!
> How were former Guardians able to get to the wormhole without the
> assistance of spaceships?
They didn't need to. The Guardians, with the Sentinels assistance, were able
to open portals. This is mentioned at some point, though I can't remember
where.
> "A race of Warrior Shifters"? Why? You have two perfectly good
> armies already.....sounds to me like a plot thread in search of a
> point.
McAllen was always looking for another ace up his sleeve. Unfortunately, we
didn't see enough of these Warrior Shifters, although the mutant
creature-thingy was one of them (not a particularly successful one, but
there you go).
> "I'm in my undies. That is so....not appropriate" Hmmm. Me thinks
> somebody hath been overgorging thyself on Instant Heat. But in
> fairness, at least April's taste in underwear was to the expansive and
> not lingerie - so I don't think that Funcom ticked off half their
> audience. But after the first time, don't you think she might have
> worn a little more - just in case?
No. She's sexy. We never tried to hide that! Heck, I think women appreciated
the fact that she dared to be sexy while still being cocky and intelligent
and sarcastic and, uh, well, as real as a not-very-real person can be.
> Funcom - sorry - I can't take that name seriously. (snigger)
Yeah, well, want to make something of it? ;)
> The diary entries were well written and the conversation log was very
> helpful.
Whoo-hoo!
> "I look like a serving maid." "I look like a real pirate." MAKE UP
> YOUR MIND!!!!!
At one point she was wearing a serving maid's outfit, another time she was
wearing a sailor's outfit. What's the problem?
> If that watch is symbolic of Cortez's heart then why did you have to
> wind it earlier :-?
To get it going. Okay, so that may have seemed weird, but again, it's just a
symbol to signify Cortez apparent fate at the end. I do think it makes
sense. Kinda.
> If April goes back to Stark then isn't she guilty of running away from
> her colonisation agreement and subject to instant imprisonment? Not
> to mention anybody that Vanguard still has left who are presumably
> still in control ("Our leaders have been killed. Alright guys - pack
> up and let's start a range of chip shops!")
Yeah, and certainly something that'd have to be explored if there's ever a
sequel. April is by no means done with her adventure.
> When did April accrue enough money to buy an outfit from that
> expensive store?
She got a few hundred dollars from Stanley in chapter one, and only used ten
or something to buy the subway-ticket.
> Stupid puzzles. Everyone knows about the rubber duck one, but why
> couldn't (for example) Crow have flown the rope across the chasm and
> wrapped it round a tree instead of messing around with a catapult? If
This has always been a problem with adventures. There will always be
solutions that seem more logical to some than what you actually have to do.
I admit we could've been more elegant in some cases, but I think we did
pretty well!
> the dragons know as much as they are meant to, how come they know
> absolutely nothing? They are frankly the Wizard of Oz of the oracle
> business :-)
They just don't want to interfere too much in the affairs of man. Don't you
just hate that? They can't look into the future, though. They're just very,
very wise. And very, very old. Like George Burns. If he was wise. And alive.
> Who taught Adrian and Halloway to fight? It was like Final Fantasy -
> one takes a turn, the other takes a turn. JUST PUNCH HIM OUT!
They were out of practice!
> Ack! Adventurer's Logic - I don't think that, for example, the
> policeman would not notice you soaking his sweet in kerosene about two
> steps in front of him. Or not recognising the fact that you don't
> sound like Hernandez....and as for Officer Guybrush (subtle, guys,
> subtle - and I liked Calavera Blvd. or whatever it was called outside
> the police station)
Adventurer's Logic. You said it.
> Anybody else think it weird that all of April's outfits (barring
> underwear, but that wasn't especially different) were the same shape -
> just different colours? Not to mention that the one she wears on the
> box only appears in the game for about five minutes. Oh, and that her
> hair is the wrong colour :-)
Skin-tight fashions, the way of the future! Can you say, "technical
limitations"? I was never bothered by this, but I see your point.
> That ending. Suuuuuuuuuuuuck! If you're going to do a big ceremony,
> LET'S SEE THE DAMNED THING!!!!!!! Too many of those events were
> behind closed doors - the ending, the Vanguard, the Marcurian war, the
> concert, the date with Zack......
Personally, I'm very happy with the ending, but players seem to be split
evenly between those who love it and those who, uh, don't love it. It leaves
the door open for a sequel, whilst being sort of bitter-sweet. Yes, a lot of
things happen behind "closed doors", but even though we didn't have the time
or resources to visualise these things, I wanted to have them in there, and
at least allow people to imagine them.
> Why is the Chaos Whirl bad given that it's in a world of chaos? And
> what exactly was it meant to have DONE other than spin?
To spin menacingly! To bring fear into the hearts of men! And also to rip
apart the fabric of the Balance, to tear through the Divide, to bring storm
and misfortune wherever it goes, and to make a really fabulous sound. Such
is the purpose of...the Chaos Vortex! Weeeeeee.
Phew. I'm exhausted.
:)
/ragnar
Ashikaga
make it concise? Yes, we like The Longest Journey, but the longest
thread....?
Quote your own words, "Phew, I'm exhausted." ;-)
Ashikaga
"Ragnar Tornquist" <rtoe...@online.no> wrote in message
news:axw35.6710$eI.9...@news1.online.no...
> "Charybdis" <char...@floor-13.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:394d006a...@news.freenetname.co.uk...
<snipped the imbalance between Ragnar and Richard>
Charybdis
went through that list!
(clap clap clap)
>Oooh boy, this is gonna be a long one...
I'm pretty pedantic, I'll admit that :-)
>Yes. Well, magic *was* seeping through, wasn't it? As for the gold
>ring...let's just say Daddy-O was a very, very cheap man, and that alloy may
>have *looked* like gold to an inexperienced eye. So there.
Such as the card sharp? Surely if they only accept metal he'd know
the difference between gold and whatever :-)
(Bing! Your shot..)
>> Smug answers are allowed. Saying "Ooops, we didn't think of that" is
>> allowed. Saying "It's because of magic" is not
>
>I can be smug. I can be smugness incarnate. But here's the thing: What if it
>*is* magic? Should I lie? I refuse to lie!
Alright, Socrates. But I'm not as bad as Thrasymachus.....:-/
> Actually, there's a good answer
>for pretty much all of the points you brought up, and although it's getting
>late, I'm up for the challenge :)
Yeah, it's 1.30 am here and I really should go to bed. I've been
playing Might and Tragic VIII all evening (for UHS) and it has crashed
on me fifteen times :-)
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>Ah, perhaps, but not consciously so...at least not on my part. So consider
>yourself stunned. True, the artists may have been inspired by Mr Solo's
>plight (I'd be surprised if they weren't), but I didn't catch the reference
>until you mentioned it.
Score! :-)
>As for how Cortez escapes imprisonment -- keep in mind that he was a *lot*
>more powerful than he let on. Even then, his escape was no easy feat, and if
>there is ever a sequel...well, Cortez will most definitely make an
>appearance, in some way, shape or form, and his imprisonment will be
>revisited...amongst other things. I mean, didn't anyone wonder what kind of
>contraption he was trapped in for so long? Cortez is a very complex
>character, and I didn't even scratch the surface. I'd let you read my
>notes...but then I'd probably have to torture you, kill you, and bury your
>body somewhere in New Jersey. And we wouldn't want that, would we?
I don't know, New Jersey's OK. My problem was that, yes, I could
understand him escaping from a normal prison - but McAllen is clearly
as powerful as Cortez is (hence the fight isn't over quickly) and
would presumably have taken this stuff into account. I assumed that
the contraption was some kind of magic dampener, personally.
>> (NOTE: If McAllen was also a dragon, and no, I'm not going to type
>> that in in gamespeak) surely he'd have taken that into account when
>> trapping Cortez)
>
>Of course. But after capturing Cortez, McAllen's attention turned away from
>his brother to the girl, April, who was becoming such a hindrance -- yet
>unwillingly, and surprisingly, a great assistance -- to his grand scheme. He
>was, in other words, fascinated and preoccupied by the events unfolding
>before his eyes, to Cortez's advantage.
Except that he's already built Cortez's prison and captured him! I'd
have thought that someone who was clearly meant to have been as smart
(in the plot anyway :-/) as McAllen would have built his stuff to
suit. Also, by the time that Cortez was captured April hadn't
actually done anything to get in Vanguard's way - and as (I seem to
remember) is said later they couldn't find her because she'd been in
Arcadia and on the move.
>> "Does it ever bother you that you sound like a bad play?" and similar
>> lines - very funny and a nice piss take.
>
>We try not to take ourselves *too* seriously. Thanks :)
There were a lot of those moments - especially in Stark where it was
obvious that you guys knew your trivia pretty well :-)
>> The first few chapters were incredibly boring - but it improved a lot
>> after that. However, the names of the chapters were painfully
>> unoriginal and cliched : "Friends and Enemies" "Shadows" "The Return
>> of the Fungal Arse Welt" - just not new..
>
>The weird thing is that, according to some people, those first few chapters
>are the high points of the game, and it's all downhill from there on. It
>just goes to show that you can't please all the people all the time. The
>story takes a while to get started, but that was the intention all along. We
>wanted to build the suspense, and although the second and third chapters are
>long, they serve a purpose.
I think that it's a slightly different problem. The first few
chapters set up an interesting situation - the characters have
personality and lots of plot themes are touched on - then all of a
sudden you get yanked away. Now, personally I thought this wasn't
that bad - it mirror's April's experience - but at the same time there
are too many loose ends for people - Charlie and April for example.
There's also the problem that we all know EXACTLY what is going to
happen - that there is going to be world travel taking place. The
exact why and wherefore aren't especially important - if it's
announced as a big surprise then obviously it will be to the character
- but not to the player.
Once action moves to Arcadia (after the inital trip) the game becomes
very, very linear (in actual fact no more so than Stark, but it feels
more because the individual areas are smaller and more numerous), very
restrictive and the game can be summed up like this (I include the
Maerun and Alatiens as part of the sea voyage itself):
PLOT (Arrive in Arcadia)
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KLACKS
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| s
| e
| a
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| v
| o
| y
| a
| g
| e
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REUNIFICATION
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PLOT (Back to Stark)
The bits in the middle (between the two major plot sections) never
felt as though they were actually part of the story - you went to a
location and had to do something in order to continue the voyage.
Along the way you lucked into getting the things that you needed.
Now, it's nowhere near as cut and dried as that - but that's
definitely how it felt. Also most people that I have spoken to
thought that Stark was by far the most imaginative and entertaining
world - as well as the one which seemed the most relevant to them
(obviously given that it's Earth 300 or so years into the future). It
was darker, there was more of a feeling that it was where all the
villains had gathered and where the final showdowns would take place -
Arcadia and a scavenger hunt were just taking up a great deal of time.
My recommendation would have been to go for a darker style - the
entire world (bar the Gribbler) was in bright colours and seemed
almost cartoony - you can relate to a kid in a slum, but you can't
relate to a giant talking dragon who is chatting about something that
won't be properly explained until the game's sequel :-)
>Regarding the chapter names, do they really have to be *new*? I like playing
>on literary and cultural references
My problem was that they were cliches. Chapter names like "Kin" and
"Penumbra" might sound OK on paper, but to me they just ellicted a
groan and a cry of "More ale, Iolo!" (but then I'm a bit weird)
>would've just wrecked the pacing upon her return to Stark. No biggie. Hey,
>maybe the ticket system was glitched? It could happen.
Let's assume it was powered by the same system as the flier in the
crash site :-)
>Yup, we spotted this early on, but we never had time to go back and fix the
>video sequence.
Score! :-)
>You just didn't see 'em! They were there, all right, lurking in the shadows,
>preying on the unsuspecting. Or maybe the kid was lying? Maybe he was just
>trying to scare April.
As with a lot of other locations, that one didn't feel dangerous
because you knew that you couldn't die.
>He jumped off before the disc reached the top. Fact.
Was this shown? And what did he jump ONTO? I may have missed
something.
>> outside, closes it, turns to April - and then threatens to slam the
>> door in her face! ROFL!!!! How come she needed a fake ID to get up
>
><cough> Yeah, well, you got me on that one. The dialogue didn't *quite* mesh
>with the action.
Score :-)
>Ah, but you misunderstood her! She'd been to that *chain* of stores before
>(in her home town), but never to that particular store. And the fixed class
>system isn't mentioned much, simply because it's never an issue. The action,
>for the most part, sticks to the street level, and she only needs to go up
>in that one chapter. The class system is always there -- we just ignored it
>for the most part.
Fair enough.
>The level system is important in that it "protects" the middle and upper
>classes from the "filth and degradation" of the street levels. So what if
>the mid-level is a glorified shopping mall; isn't that what middle-America
>wants? And besides, it's really, really *good* pizza.
Really? So it's not one of the dial-a-pizzas which are shut down as
biological hazards then :-? But why would the Vanguard HQ be on the
Middle Class Level? (you don't need to show another pass at any rate)
Presumably that means there's another step up to the big guys :-)
>Good point. However, there are probably recruitment-centres in other parts
>of town -- we just don't get to see them. And the colonies want the middle
>classes too; they don't discriminate. Labour is labour.
True enough.
>> does the Vanguard have actual power over people if the corporations
>> are the ones who run the show - I can understand influence, but
>
>The Vanguard -- or, actually, MTI -- is the biggest corporation there is.
>They have power. Lots of it. You didn't get to see the extent of it in TLJ,
>but if there's ever a sequel...yeah, yeah, it's a cheap-shot, but it's true.
>There's so much we wanted to show, so many stories to tell, we couldn't get
>around to all of it in thirteen chapters!
That's understandable. I think that part of the problem was that
everyone was always talking about Bokamba/Mercer and Bingo! - a few
adverts or casual mentions (like the ones in Arcadia) would have been
more believable - even if only to say "Pah! The Church of Voltec -
what a bunch of weirdos."
>> actually having their fancy dress clad goons running around with
>> blasters?
>
>I didn't understand your point with this one.
I was referring to the scene in which April returns to find the ambush
- you know, when the goons were all wearing their religious costumes
instead of police garb :-)
>They *are* looking for the stones. It's just that their influence in Arcadia
>is quite inadequate at the beginning of the game. And they know that there's
>something wrong, some kind of new force to be reckoned with. They just don't
>know exactly *what*, or *where*. They home in on her after a while, though.
Fair enough (Although they do have a bloody great army which they
appear to be wasting by attacking Marcuria :-))
>> How come the worlds threaten to merge only at the start - nothing
>> should have happened until the new Guardian started. And why didn't
>
>The worlds didn't threaten to merge. There was the threat of chaos, as magic
>leaked into the realm of logic, and (eventually) vice-versa, but only a
>Guardian could consciously reunite the two worlds. That's what McAllen
>wanted to do, to put his puppet on the throne, and reap the benefits of his
>actions.
Fair enough.
>> elements of Stark appear in Arcadia? Or anybody seem especially
>> bothered about suddenly sititng in a rainforest? If April is a sort
>
>As I recall, Fiona seemed pretty freaked out, as did April. Chaos is a
>considerable force, and since this was a much more prevalent element of
>Arcadia -- a realm of magic -- chaos was bound to make an impact on Stark
>before the opposite occured, and the forces of order and logic began
>affecting magic. But it would've happened, sooner or later.
I don't see why. From our perspective trees stabbing out of the
ground and walls falling away is a big deal, but there were quite a
few things mentioned that could have been used - magical animals dying
in Arcadia for example.
>It happened elsewhere too, as Fiona mentioned in chapter one (or two).
>Motion in the corner of the eye, strange visions, dreams...that sort of
>thing.
Again, around April herself given that I assume Fiona lives in her own
boarding house. Likewise at the cafe. The point is that we never saw
it mentioned on, say, the news.
"And in today's news there was an entertaining episode as a giant
scaly monster appeared outside the local school, and now - onto a
crashed flyer which has just hit the street outside the polic..." etc.
And why would Chaos be more likely to manifest itself - if it is shown
as trees and forestry then might the Marcurians not have had cars
driving down their roads or suddenly found themselves teleported out
into a riot..something like that.
>> Crow : Liked him. However, how could he be pulled through a Shift
>> without getting mashed? Remember what other people said about non
>> Shifters trying.
>
>Yup. But again, there's more to Crow than meets the eye. Besides, this was a
>Shift into the Guardian's Realm, and remember that April's powers are also
>largely unexplored...it could very well be that this was a manifestation of
>that. Also, remember what Westhouse said? There are ways for non-Shifters to
>pass through the Divide, but they're not necessarily very pleasant.
Crow didn't seem to mind :-) So what else is there to him than meets
the eye - I was under the assumption that he was just your standard
ta...
wait..
let me guess..
...the sequel :-)
>Ah, a point of contention in this newsgroup. Do we need swearing? Certainly
>not. Does it stir up people's emotions? Definitely. I stand by the cursing,
>although I do admit that it can be a little excessive...but I let the
>actors, uh, explore their characters :)
Hmmm. Question: how much swearing was there in the original script,
and how much because you hired a psychopath to play Flipper :-?
>The reunification of the worlds wouldn't happen naturally. Although the
>seeping-through bit was a gradual wearing down of artificial borders by the
>elemental forces of chaos unleashed, the result would only be apocalypse,
>and not a single, reunited realm of Earth.
Fair enough.
>Because April has powers of her own that remain a mystery by the end of the
>game. Her story doesn't end, and I hope some day I'll be able to tell the
>rest of it!
Maybe we should get together and try and pitch it as a novel while you
work on your next game. Hell, if you're interested give me a shout
:-) It would definitely be a shame to see the story end there.
>She brings a bit of stability to the worlds...but only after embarking on
>her quest, and learning the truth from Cortez.
Yet she doesn't actually know HOW to do this - anything that she was
unconsciously doing would still have been happening beforehand :-)
>Thanks...and you think so? I was pretty happy with the way Arcadia came off,
>although I do wish there'd been more of a show of magic. It didn't always
>seem to be as magical as Stark was mechanical.
I'll be frank about Arcadia - it never seemed like a world of magic
and chaos so much as a world of weird animals. Take the magic for
example - alchemy is the main one used and it frankly felt more
scientific than anything else. While it's damned hard to actually
create anything new (so much has already been created and it's
impossible not to be influenced by this) so much of it was a case of
spotting the references. Hanzel and Gretel (The Gribbler). The
Winged Ones from KQVI (The Alatiens), Atlantis (The..erm..memory
failure..Maerun(?))...it would probably have worked better had there
been more of an emphasis on wizards, sorcerers and so forth (in
addition to the monsters and other creatures) because as it stood the
human characters were folk like shop keepers, priests, sailors -
nothing which is that far removed from here.
Roper Klacks in particular struck me as the Token Magical Bloke - even
though the plot had been explained and I knew the reason why I was
after him, there didn't seem to be enough of a connection to the plot
to make it worth my time - especially given the stakes in the main
plot.
Also there was the problem that Arcadia was the empty world - I don't
like the fact that every fantasy world insists on having annoying
logic puzzles - the telephone statues one in particular was a pain
(and your programming logic didn't work properly on my first attempt
even though I'd got the right code apart from sending the signal to
the last location - I still got the clifftop phone instead of the
ruins one)
Now, what I do agree with you on 100% is not making Arcadia "Fairy
Tale World" - Simon the Sorcerer did that already and it doesn't make
for a very entertaining game if you know exactly what's coming. The
trouble was that while Stark took the idea of Blade Runner and turned
it on its head somewhat, Arcadia was all too often strictly by the
numbers. Arabian architecture, desert islands, underwater cities,
people who spoke in sagas (I decided early on in Vestrum Tobias'
speech that if Arcadia was the world of chaos, chaos meant 'long
speeches'). There were too many sections in which you weren't sure
why you were doing something - you just proceeded and things really
fell from the sky into your lap - the Dragon who brought you almost
everything that you needed seemed AMAZINGLY convenient.
>> Roper Klacks. OK, the idea of a challenge is reasonable and the
>> choices were funny - but puh-lease? HOW many chances?
>
>Hey, he was insane! IN-sane!
Well the sight of him playing hopscotch was worth it - but again, I
think this would have worked more effectively if you only had, say,
three chances to get it right - especially since you couldn't get
there without the needed object.
> We had a whole lot of fun recording thirteen hours of dialogue in ten days,
>let me tell you. After a while, we *all* sounded like we were on crack.
:-)
>True. That didn't come off as well as it should have, but I firmly stand by
>my no-killing rule. Killing is bad. Especially in an adventure.
I can understand that.
P.S. HEY MACARENA!
>> The entire game is a struggle to prevent the reunification of Stark
>> and Arcadia - yet that's exactly what happens and nobody gives a damn?
>> Weird....
>
>Stark and Arcadia were *not* reunited by the end. That was going to happen
>at some point in the future, but not yet. The worlds weren't ready. Gordon,
>the new Guardian, reinstated the Balance, and channeled the forces of chaos
>and order, magic and science between the twin worlds, restoring the state of
>the universe to a perfect equilibrium. But he didn't reunite the worlds.
>That would happen later, as the old woman said when she wrapped up her
>story.
Fair enough - but it can't be that far away if April played a part in
it while still a young woman...and is it the Universe? I thought that
it was Earth specifically which was split. I didn't say that it
happens by the end incidentally, just that we are told that what you
have been trying to prevent does in fact end up happening after all.
>People had suspicions, but her role seemed pretty clear-cut. She was a lot
>more complex than even Cortez gave her credit for, and her fate would bring
>her to even stranger locations after her adventures in TLJ.
Fair enough. I can understand the sequel potential.
>> one point IIRC) why was he so obsessed with and reminiscent of an
>> Arcadian. And why did he have to leave the Tower anyway? How could
>
>Adrian looked like an Arcadian, because he was from a Stark a thousand years
>into the past, and because he was trained in Arcadia to become a Guardian.
>He left the tower because he had to, because no person can exist without a
>soul, in solitude, for more than one thousand years. Tobias says this in his
>looong speech to April.
I think that I missed it while I re-read War and Peace (only kidding
:-))
>The Balance had chosen Gordon, but the Vanguard tried to twist him to their
>own purposes, in order to control him from afar. Obviously, they failed, and
>so the Balance chose another Guardian...or so everyone believed. In reality,
>it chose April to bring the two halves of Gordon back together, so that he
>could take his place as a true Guardian of the Balance. It's all in there!
>You just have to look for it.
That's how it worked out, certainly - but it is open to the most
amazing screwups. What if McAllen had just shot April or if the
zombie hadn't been aware of your No Killing Rule :-? No Guardian?
Would it have had to take him anyway? If they only put the Logical
half in there then wouldn't that just have screwed things up instead
of giving him a conscious choice? In short - wouldn't giving him lots
and lots of money have worked better than seperating his personality
:-)
>True. Their position in the world of Stark is unexplored, as mentioned
>above. There's much more to be told about them, and hopefully, some day, I
>will.
(drum roll indicating expectation)
>Uh, okay. My bad. Well, come on, she *did* lie about some things, at least
>to begin with!
Only that she'd tell them about it later - and I think that being in
another dimension probably counts as an excuse :-)
>I'd have loved to see that, but there just wasn't enough money or time to do
>it! Fact! We'll just have to use our imaginations.
OK, I can accept that.
>> How the HELL is anybody without April's exact inventory meant to
>> complete those last trials? This is a frequent problem with the genre
>> - I know - but this seemed so artificial, especially retrieving the
>> water from the well. How would anyone else do it - perhaps by making a
>
>I agree, but this is hard to avoid in an adventure. More careful design
>could have made it more elegant, but then again, people accept some quirks
>from the genre. I know I do.
Oh, I do as well. It's just that it works better if the equipment is
provided by the test itself as opposed to the player having carried it
around from the start. Incidentally, one more thing : the last
chapter is called The Longest Journey. It took me about ten minutes.
It takes me longer than that to go to the bus station :-)
>Good question. I think mechanical devices would be susceptible to
>malfunction in Arcadia, but I honestly can't tell you how reliable magic is
>in Stark. Maybe he was bluffing? Or maybe those barries required McAllen's
>constant attention?
To be fair, the potions worked - but again I really associate alchemy
with science instead of magic. As for bluffing I immediately thought
"Yeah, now where's my "SHIFT" key (and I don't mean "just about
CTRL!") - she says she knows how to do it." If it had been me I'd
have at least given it a shot :-)
>> DON'T try to do non-linear time references. Always a bad idea.
>
>Huh?
Abnaxus. It was handled reasonably well, but like DS9 it had the
problem that if the cutoff point for what he could see wasn't until
much later (it is only after he meets April upon her return that they
hit the propechy veil) it seems odd not to do the old info-spilling to
the saviour of the entire darned worlds :-)
>Yeah, well, he makes fun of that himself at some point. So there!
Still dumb though :-)
>If you can do a more convincing dragon in your sleep...you're hired!
Oooh, give me a night or so. I'll have to tape my mouse to my foot or
something like that :-)
>They got the map from Burns Flipper, remember? And then they left
>immediately. Of course Gordon had the resources to take off from Earth on a
>second's notice. After all, he had the entire force of the Vanguard behind
>him!
Fair enough. But again, why didn't they head off immediately instead
of sitting around whilst April got her Bokamba-Mercer slave uniformed
ass up to the station? If there's no answer to that, I'll add one :
Adrian refused to tell them anything and they were too lazy to bring
out the torture equipment :-)
>They didn't need to. The Guardians, with the Sentinels assistance, were able
>to open portals. This is mentioned at some point, though I can't remember
>where.
And yet the only Starkian Sentinel that we meet doesn't actually seem
to know very much. Likewise, Tobias only knows what is written
down/painted on the walls.
>McAllen was always looking for another ace up his sleeve. Unfortunately, we
>didn't see enough of these Warrior Shifters, although the mutant
>creature-thingy was one of them (not a particularly successful one, but
>there you go).
Fair enough, although it does hit the George Lucas Force problem that
Shifting is at least partly genetic as opposed to some kind of mystic
ability - if he can breed them as opposed to waiting for Fate to kick
in.
>No. She's sexy. We never tried to hide that! Heck, I think women appreciated
>the fact that she dared to be sexy while still being cocky and intelligent
>and sarcastic and, uh, well, as real as a not-very-real person can be.
Well you can't argue with that. (*cough*)
>At one point she was wearing a serving maid's outfit, another time she was
>wearing a sailor's outfit. What's the problem?
She did? I thought it was exactly the same outfit!
>To get it going. Okay, so that may have seemed weird, but again, it's just a
>symbol to signify Cortez apparent fate at the end. I do think it makes
>sense. Kinda.
Not really given that you've already said that Cortez isn't dead while
answering these questions :-) Maybe it's just a really bad watch that
he bought from a vendor somewhere....
>> If April goes back to Stark then isn't she guilty of running away from
>Yeah, and certainly something that'd have to be explored if there's ever a
>sequel. April is by no means done with her adventure.
I can definitely see McAllen (if Cortez survives that fight then he
probably would) making use of his position to ensure that even if the
two worlds aren't going to merge that he is at least in control of
both of them. Certainly a good launching point for a sequel - as his
Tyren army stomps all over Arcadia he uses his political connections
to rise through the ranks of Starkian politics. After a while he gets
so firmly fixed on both worlds that the only way to take him down is
to throw a wrench into the works by bringing about reunification and
take advantage of the chaos (in the normal sense, not Chaos) to
shatter things. Of course, I'm sure that you guys have everything
planned already.
>She got a few hundred dollars from Stanley in chapter one, and only used ten
>or something to buy the subway-ticket.
Fair enough.
>This has always been a problem with adventures. There will always be
>solutions that seem more logical to some than what you actually have to do.
>I admit we could've been more elegant in some cases, but I think we did
>pretty well!
Most were OK, but several DEFINITELY dated back several years.
>> the dragons know as much as they are meant to, how come they know
>> absolutely nothing? They are frankly the Wizard of Oz of the oracle
>> business :-)
>
>They just don't want to interfere too much in the affairs of man. Don't you
>just hate that? They can't look into the future, though. They're just very,
>very wise. And very, very old. Like George Burns. If he was wise. And alive.
Very convenient ;-) Why is it that no oracle in the history of
fantasy has EVER given a straight answer to a question?
>They were out of practice!
Seriously!
>Skin-tight fashions, the way of the future! Can you say, "technical
>limitations"? I was never bothered by this, but I see your point.
I could say that. Of course, I'm more likely to say "Nocturne",
"Alone in the Dark 4", "Anachronox", "Ultima IX" and "Discworld Noir"
:-)
>> That ending. Suuuuuuuuuuuuck! If you're going to do a big ceremony,
>> LET'S SEE THE DAMNED THING!!!!!!! Too many of those events were
>> behind closed doors - the ending, the Vanguard, the Marcurian war, the
>> concert, the date with Zack......
>
>Personally, I'm very happy with the ending, but players seem to be split
>evenly between those who love it and those who, uh, don't love it. It leaves
>the door open for a sequel, whilst being sort of bitter-sweet. Yes, a lot of
>things happen behind "closed doors", but even though we didn't have the time
>or resources to visualise these things, I wanted to have them in there, and
>at least allow people to imagine them.
April makes a comment along the lines of "That's it then?" Which was
my exact thought :-) The ending wasn't too bad, but a quick spot of
lens flare, Gordon rising into his new position (or sitting down in
the chair, whichever :-)) segued into the bit of April and Crow
leaving would have been much more effective. As it was it was "April.
You've saved everything. Now shoo. Go on, this isn't for your eyes!"
>> Why is the Chaos Whirl bad given that it's in a world of chaos? And
>> what exactly was it meant to have DONE other than spin?
>
>To spin menacingly! To bring fear into the hearts of men! And also to rip
>apart the fabric of the Balance, to tear through the Divide, to bring storm
>and misfortune wherever it goes, and to make a really fabulous sound. Such
>is the purpose of...the Chaos Vortex! Weeeeeee.
Right, so it's a fancy special effect that your art guys liked. Glad
we cleared that one up :-)
>Phew. I'm exhausted.
But on the plus side you made a much better case for yourself that Tim
Schaefer when asked why his entire universe was based on an idea which
didn't make any sense at all! Nice going!
(round of applause)
- Richard
Charybdis
have become stronger.....
>Raggy, could you please snip through unneccesary parts of the post and
>make it concise? Yes, we like The Longest Journey, but the longest
>thread....?
You're going to hate my response :-)
- Richard
Ashikaga
> In knowing the teachings of "Ashikaga" <citize...@hotmail.com>, I
> have become stronger.....
>
> >Raggy, could you please snip through unneccesary parts of the post
and
> >make it concise? Yes, we like The Longest Journey, but the longest
> >thread....?
>
> You're going to hate my response :-)
Yes, a true never ending story.
> - Richard
Ashikaga