Doom flamed by media
Kevan Eugene Dettelbach
Attention all soon-to-be DOOM players, the following appeared as an
editorial in the B.C. Lower Mainland December edition of the
"Computer Paper", a freely distributed computer newspaper/magazine. I will
follow the article with an address where you can get in touch with the editor.
Please, do not mail me about this.
*****************************************************************************
A Parent's Nightmare Before Christmas
This editorial letter is intended as a warning to parents and people who care.
By the time your kids are tucked in and dreamiong of suger plums, they may
have seen the latest in sensational computer games. And they will love it.
-You may not.
The harbringer of this "latest" crop of games is called Doom.
Doom Is A Gift That Bites Back.
Doom is captivating. A press release and demo software of this new computer
game arrived in our office this month. It generated a lot of controversy
amoung our staff. Doom has an amazing "virtual reality" feel to it. The player
moves through a well-rendered 3-D space in pursuit of nasty people. The hood
ornament that guides the player through space is a loaded gun. Whenever one
of these unfortunate souls comes into view, the idea is to press a button
which fires the gun. The people fall down bleeding and dead. Corpses litter
the floor in the 3-D space. The game is remarkable for the quality of its
graphics and ease of movement through space. It has an amazingly addictive
quality to it.
But Doom is not a game of discovery nor of a noble quest. Doom is a kill
or be killed shoot-em-up. It is mortal combat. Doom shows only the first-person
viewpoint of the protagonist watching the carnage. And die, they do - in
fountains of blood.
This game is not the only such game, it is just one of the best examples
of slick graphics combined with ugly violence. Other recent examples include
games called Castle Wolfenstein (fighting Nazis in a German castle -featuring
scenes of grisly torture) and Mortal Kombat (in which you get to literally
rip the spine out of your oppenent). The better computer game makers get at
their craft, and the more powerful the computers, the more we will have to
deal with the issue of combining an enjoyable visceral experience with
something that may be inciting violence in the real world.
NIMPC
The line between playing at shooting another person and actually shooting
another person blurs further in this game than any before it. If one wanted
to train a child in guerilla warfare or to prepare him to survive a firefight
in a war-zone, Doom is a realistic simulator. For me, however, No Thanks -
Not In My PC.
Amusing Ourselves To Death
While I am not advocating the censorship of these types of games, it would
seem worthwhile that people take a good look at what they are doing in
their spare time. If we as a society don't want crime in the streets, if we
don't want people to seek violent solutions to their problems, what are we
doing using games like these? Although it may take the social scientists years
to find the link, I believe there is a relationship between these types of
games (as well as movies and TV) that glorify violence and what people see as
viable solutions to their problems.
If you have kids or know young people that you care about, take a look at
their PC game collection. Is it creating the values that you would like to see
in our society? Ask your kids to consider the alternatives.
A Free Puppy?
What makes Doom doubly invasive is the method of its distribution. Doom comes
to you for free. The first "episode" of DOOM will be shareware. (When you
register, you'll receive the next two episodes.)
Shareware is the type of software that developers encourage you to try
before you buy. In many cases, it will be downloaded via modems or passed
around on diskette with no money being exchanged. No messy packaging or
diskette labels for parents to check out. It is being offered to you and
yours like a free puppy. Unfortunately, this may be a sick puppy.
Our goal in all this is not to become the morality police, just to get
you to think about what you and your loved ones might be playing with on some
snowy evening soon.
[ the rest of the column goes on to tell about what is in the rest of the
magazine, it is irrelavent to the topic of disscusion.]
Douglas Alder
Publisher/Editor
****************************************************************************
Well there you have it folks. Another fine piece of objectivity. I'm going
to give you conntact information (email addresses etc.) just in case you
want to comment on the above piece or cra... ah, journalism :).
As for my own opinion is this matters, (in case you havn't guessed it yet),
they can take my copy of Doom when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
Conntact information:
Canada Computer Paper Inc.
British Columbia: 60,000 Circulation
#8, 3661 W. 4th Ave, Vancouver BC V6R 1P2
Phone (604) 733-5596 Fax (604) 732-4280
Ron Asbestos Dippold
>editorial in the B.C. Lower Mainland December edition of the
>"Computer Paper", a freely distributed computer newspaper/magazine. I will
>another person blurs further in this game than any before it. If one wanted
>to train a child in guerilla warfare or to prepare him to survive a firefight
>in a war-zone, Doom is a realistic simulator.
Wahahahahahahahahahaha! Yeah, right. And you'll be all set to
handle any goat-legged spell casting space demons you encounter in
real life.
>their spare time. If we as a society don't want crime in the streets, if we
>don't want people to seek violent solutions to their problems, what are we
>doing using games like these?
Not confusing fantasy with reality.
> Our goal in all this is not to become the morality police, just to get
>you to think about what you and your loved ones might be playing with on some
>snowy evening soon.
Yeah, right. Actually, this is probably a good thing. The more
controversy Doom gets, the better it will sell.
--
A censor is a man who knows more than he thinks you ought to.
-- Granville Hicks
hal wayne black
> [lots of article deleted to save bandwidth]
> Our goal in all this is not to become the morality police, just to get
>you to think about what you and your loved ones might be playing with on some
>snowy evening soon.
>****************************************************************************
>Well there you have it folks. Another fine piece of objectivity. I'm going
>to give you conntact information (email addresses etc.) just in case you
>want to comment on the above piece or cra... ah, journalism :).
This article really isn't that bad compared to some I have seen (namely, the
Satan=AD&D crowd.) This IS about as objective an editorial I have seen (not
that editorials are to be objective, in any case) This author isn't saying
"Don't let your kids get DOOM!!! Confiscate their modems!!!" He just
mentions some fairly credible things about DOOM (I have not seen it, of
course... But Wolfenstein 3-d and MK have been accurately presented...) and
further that the parents need to check out their hard drives, to see.
What's wrong with parents taking an interest in what games their kids are
playing? Sadly, the number of negligent parents vastly outnumber the ones who
take an interest in their kids...
The bit about the link between violent games-TV has supposedly been "proved,"
but the number is statistically negligible compared to the effects of
censorship, IMO.
The "free puppy" bit is a little silly. Kids that can DL the thing, and
successfully hide it from their parents are probably mature enough for the
game. Imagine someone attacking the Shareware Concept! Booo for this part.
I don't agree with this article in any way, but at least it is somewhat
responsible, despite some colorful wording ("fountains of blood") - of course,
I haven't seen DOOM, so I dunno. AND, it is an editorial, inherently making
no claims to objectivity.
So, it is okay do disagree with this writer, but it's not okay to flame him.
Of course, it is perfectly acceptable to flame me, because I am dictating
to whomever what is "okay" and what isn't. Maybe it'll be better if I
sprinkle some IMO's here and there. IMO IMO IMO IMO (cut and paste as you
like.. 8')
. . . can't wait for DOOM!!! (2 days!! wow!)
>As for my own opinion is this matters, (in case you havn't guessed it yet),
>they can take my copy of Doom when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
>Conntact information:
>Canada Computer Paper Inc.
>British Columbia: 60,000 Circulation
>#8, 3661 W. 4th Ave, Vancouver BC V6R 1P2
>Phone (604) 733-5596 Fax (604) 732-4280
--
| sy...@mik.uky.edu | hwbl...@ukpr.uky.edu | Entitlements kill |
(tastefully short signature)
Kristen - Taylor
> I don't agree with this article in any way, but at least it is somewhat
>responsible, despite some colorful wording ("fountains of blood") - of course,
>I haven't seen DOOM, so I dunno. AND, it is an editorial, inherently making
>no claims to objectivity.
What people like the ones who wrote the original article dont realiase is that
all it does is serve to help in distribution. Its kinda like skiskel & egbert.
Two thumbs means go see it. Well here we have a magazine saying "Dont buy doom
, its way to violent." first thing that went through my mind was DAMN I WANT
DOOM. So let them write there articles, it only serves to defeat there own
purpose.
Kristen
Mark Gray
>A Parent's Nightmare Before Christmas
>This editorial letter is intended as a warning to parents and people who care.
>By the time your kids are tucked in and dreamiong of suger plums, they may
>have seen the latest in sensational computer games. And they will love it.
>-You may not.
> The harbringer of this "latest" crop of games is called Doom.
>Doom Is A Gift That Bites Back.
<ravings of one with a few kangaroos loose in his top paddock deleted>
The whole notion of this is totally absurd. I have checked with a few
friends and we have discovered that, at no time, have we ever dreamed
about 'sugar plums'. Sheesh! This just illustrates how poorly
researched and conceived the article was!!
nb: some more exclamations are inserted here for good measure;
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Gray
no .sig, but rest assured that I do not represent my institution, I
suspect that some bureaucrats here *do* dream of sugar plums, but
they are not human, so they don't count.
David Taylor
1. The article carefully avoids the small but not irrelevant fact
that you're killing demons and monsters, a theme celebrated in
literature since just a whole long ways back. The closest you
get to killing people is killing posessed humans. Eh. That's
a bit of a stretch. I'm not counting the deathmatch mode,
because it's up there with bliss. Sorry, Mom..
2. They forgot to mention the dripping slop sound and meat-graphics
you get with a square missle blast to an unsuspecting posessed
human, or better-yet, your net-buddy down the hall.
Seriously, though. Doom's distribution format makes it a little easier
for kids to get ahold of without the parents' knowledge. So kids, be
good boys and girls and stop hogging the console. Give the parents
a turn.
=-ddt->
dkrowlan
>I should mention two things not mentioned in the article..
>
> 1. The article carefully avoids the small but not irrelevant fact
> that you're killing demons and monsters, a theme celebrated in
> literature since just a whole long ways back. The closest you
> get to killing people is killing posessed humans. Eh. That's
> a bit of a stretch. I'm not counting the deathmatch mode,
> because it's up there with bliss. Sorry, Mom..
so typical. This guy decided what he was going to write in his
little editorial and then misprepresented anything / everything so it
fit. So pervasive in the media. Just leave out the relevant facts, and
you can say anything you want.
> 2. They forgot to mention the dripping slop sound and meat-graphics
> you get with a square missle blast to an unsuspecting posessed
> human, or better-yet, your net-buddy down the hall.
Ooooo, I can't wait... :)
dkrowlan
>
>Attention all soon-to-be DOOM players, the following appeared as an
>editorial in the B.C. Lower Mainland December edition of the
>"Computer Paper", a freely distributed computer newspaper/magazine. I will
>follow the article with an address where you can get in touch with the editor.
>Please, do not mail me about this.
>
>*****************************************************************************
>A Parent's Nightmare Before Christmas
>
>****************************************************************************
>Well there you have it folks. Another fine piece of objectivity. I'm going
>to give you conntact information (email addresses etc.) just in case you
>want to comment on the above piece or cra... ah, journalism :).
>
>As for my own opinion is this matters, (in case you havn't guessed it yet),
>they can take my copy of Doom when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
>
Ha, I've got a reponse for this jerk..."Kiss my Ass!"
Nick J Worthey
flamed by media by David Tay...@daisy.cc.ut
>
> 1. The article carefully avoids the small but not irrelevant fact
> that you're killing demons and monsters, a theme celebrated in
> literature since just a whole long ways back. The closest you
Sure, all us sane people (until we get DOOM of course) realize this
fact. That article was just sensationalist nonsense... Doom as a
suitable tool for training killers?? HA HA HA!! That's a good one!
--
Nick
Thomas W. Davie
>>their spare time. If we as a society don't want crime in the streets, if we
>>don't want people to seek violent solutions to their problems, what are we
>>doing using games like these?
>Not confusing fantasy with reality.
Bingo. And...I think the author of that article( in the computer
paper that is )shot themselves in the foot by asdmitting it was a game.
Well, if it's a game( as they say )then they won't confuse it with what is
not a game( life ), which is what you say.
Tom
Morgan Stair
If this were the only thing I'd read about DOOM... I'd be polling the
ftp sites on December 10th.
-Morgan
--
____________________________________________________________________
Morgan Stair Boston College Work: 617-552-8783
Software Engineer 4 Alfred Cir STE 2 Fax: 617-552-8778
Mor...@DL5000.bc.edu Bedford MA 01730-2363
Mark S. Wyman
>Kristen
Now only if we can get one of the guys from Id to shoot at some police then
Doom would surely be number 1 on the top ten list!
Think of the TV news time Doom would get!!!
Jay? Shawn? Any takers?
Mark
R.X. Getter
>
>editorial in the B.C. Lower Mainland December edition of the
>"Computer Paper", a freely distributed computer newspaper/magazine. I will
>follow the article with an address where you can get in touch with the editor.
>Please, do not mail me about this.
>
>*****************************************************************************
>A Parent's Nightmare Before Christmas
>
>
>Douglas Alder
>Publisher/Editor
>
>****************************************************************************
>Well there you have it folks. Another fine piece of objectivity. I'm going
>to give you conntact information (email addresses etc.) just in case you
>want to comment on the above piece or cra... ah, journalism :).
>
>As for my own opinion is this matters, (in case you havn't guessed it yet),
>they can take my copy of Doom when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
>
>Conntact information:
>
>Canada Computer Paper Inc.
>British Columbia: 60,000 Circulation
>#8, 3661 W. 4th Ave, Vancouver BC V6R 1P2
>Phone (604) 733-5596 Fax (604) 732-4280
>
He's right. I just finished the shareware version of Blake Stone, and
I had to fight the urge to stir-fry small children.
Rob Getter
rxg...@ultb.isc.rit.edu
Unknown
(Kevan Eugene Dettelbach) wrote:
>
<munch>
Ha Ha, now I got my defense when I run amok at work with my BFG.
********************************************************
* David Ingham * "Doom made him do it" *
* * -- my defense attorney *
********************************************************
Jacob C Kesinger
>s1d...@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Kevan Eugene Dettelbach) writes:
><some stuff>
>>*****************************************************************************
>>A Parent's Nightmare Before Christmas
>>This editorial letter is intended as a warning to parents and people who care.
>>By the time your kids are tucked in and dreamiong of suger plums, they may
>>have seen the latest in sensational computer games. And they will love it.
>>-You may not.
>> The harbringer of this "latest" crop of games is called Doom.
>>Doom Is A Gift That Bites Back.
><ravings of one with a few kangaroos loose in his top paddock deleted>
>The whole notion of this is totally absurd. I have checked with a few
>friends and we have discovered that, at no time, have we ever dreamed
>about 'sugar plums'. Sheesh! This just illustrates how poorly
>researched and conceived the article was!!
So what exactly are sugar plums? I know what sugar is,
I know what plums are, but what do you get when you mix them?
(Maybe they meant 'sugared plums'. )
Michael Robinson
actually shoot a projectile at another live person. It seems to me that
people who do this must have a need to kill. I can see the trend now:
Watch tv/movie-->play DOOM-->paintball-->take an UZI to N.Y.C.
Hmmm. I know that there are tons of experts who've said that watching
violence leads to violence. I'm sure that's true for some, maybe, but
not any rationally thinking human being.
Oh, and maybe my relationship with my parents is different than others,
but when I was 15 and if I had DOOM, I'd laugh my ass off watching my
Mom or Dad trying to remove it from the hard drive. My mother can use
Word (run from a menu program, of course) but then has problems programming
our on-screen programmable VCR.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Mike Robinson (Wharton Finance) mrob...@wharton.upenn.edu
I offer no apologies for my opinions, nor no guarantees that the
information stated above is actually correct.
Tony Wong
First of all, actually not the most important reason, people who
have access to computers are usually educated and they can make
resaonable decision about their future. Now violence in games
are not the same as violence in real life. The former happens in
a fantasy world. Unless someone already has problem living in the
real world, he/she should be able to distinguish the difference.
Actually it is good to have a fantasy world where you can exercise
some violence to release daily stress.
Tony Wong
Fred Bradley
normal "no guns in the house" mom. She had lots of fun when got a chance
to kill dogs with a survival knife in Wolf 3d. It was pretty funny
listening to her yell "Die Dog!" heheheheh. She's back to normal now, and
I doubt she has the skill to play doom.
Fred Bradley
Douglas J. Bottoms
s1d...@rick.cs.ubc.ca writes:
> Our goal in all this is not to become the morality police, just to get
>you to think about what you and your loved ones might be playing with on some
>snowy evening soon.
I think the article made a few good points. I have had some experience in
journalism, though this doesn't make me an expert. The author is addressing
something that we need to consider. What if playing violently graphic video
games are causing some sort of trauma to our society?
Let's take, for instance, nudity in our society. It isn't such a big deal
anymore to turn on the public television and see it. This was unheard of only
twenty years ago! I cannot recall the journalist's name, but there was a
newscaster/anchor, or perhaps he was a talk show host (nevertheless, he was a
figure popular in TV) who said Watercloset on camera. His career was
virtually ruined.
Let us consider, now, conflict. What child hasn't played cowboys and indians.
Perhaps playing war (G.I. Joe? Fort-men?) was a favorite passtime for you.
We had to use our imaginations to see the "bad-guys" (which ever side you
choose to support) spray "fountains of blood" when shot. This in itself might
be an acceptible release of our hostilities in childhood, depending on a good
day in Freud's interpretations. However, we now have the advent of computers
and the genious that shape and focus our imagination into a very specific
group of images. DOOM for instance. We are the good guys. They are the bad
guys. We kill the bad guys, plain and simple. We no longer have to imagine
the combat. The game is as close as most of us have been to experiencing an
alternate reality. We can "live" it.
I'm sure the author is trying to make just that point. I didn't necessarily
think that the author was saying that if you play DOOM or other games like it
you were licking at the feet of Satan. The author was, rather, trying to make
us realize that if we allow games like this desensitise us to the horrors the
game actually presents, life could become less precious. From my Psychology
studies in college (almost minored in psychology) each text book had some
references to the horrors of becoming desensitise to some undesirable
behavior. A common example is a murder. They usually has very little regard
for life. How did he or she become this way? Perhaps, over time they were
"hardened" by our society. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that if you
play DOOM you'll become a murderer. However, as our "games" approach a
realism unheardof where do we draw the line? If a person, say in forty years,
steps into a "Holodeck" (from Star Trek) and orders up a couple of "bad guys",
real in every detail takes a shotgun and destroyes the holographically
generated people, is he or she a murderer? Could it be something worse?
Perhaps. Could it merely be releasing the stress from those blockheads at
work who just won't give up? Sooner or later, will the computer images
desensitise us until it is "okay" to do unsocial things?
I'm asking more questions here than I expected to, but this is something our
generation will have to deal with. I think it is wrong to immediate think the
author is a close-minded, unsocialized, unresearching pinhead.
I'm very anxious to try DOOM. I'm sure I will just love the game. However, I
wonder if psychologically, we're being damaged. ID didn't start this idea,
though. It is obvious that good-guys bad-guys have been around forever. Our
challenge is to make sure we do not lose the sensitivity to our fellow beings.
I hope my short novel I've presented here doesn't sound corny. I am being
serious when I say, our society needs to try to live up to this challenge.
Sincerely,
Douglas J. Bottoms | Internet DBot...@Lilly.Com
Lilly Research Laboratories | Scientific Information Systems
A Division of Eli Lilly and Company | Toxicology
Post Office Box 708, Drop Code GL21 | Phone (317) 277-4107
Greenfield, Indiana, U.S.A. 46140 | Facimile (317) 277-5270
The thoughts expressed here are entirely my own and do not necessarily
reflect the thoughts of any other individual or group.
Daniel Lundh
It didn't occur to this editorial masterpiece of deceit that military
recruiting ads are probably the worst thing possible.
What provotes dehumanizing behaviour as much as the army?
-/////////////-//////////////////////-//////////-////////////////////-
| Regards, | email:dan...@brax.se | TeamOS/2 | Parental Advisory: |
| Daniel Lundh | bbs:+46-(0)46-772292 | -------- | Explicit Opinions |
---[Annoying unnecessary lines for sale:1-800-ANNOY]-------------------
Eric W. Mitchell
>Not confusing fantasy with reality.
While I am obviously in a small minority here, I have to say that the
author has something resembling a valid point buried in this article.
We may not have reached the point yet where fantasy becomes
indistinguishable from reality, but we are getting closer every day.
Because Doom is a cutting edge product, it is a natural target for
debate on the effects of interactive virtual reality on the user.
I often hear the argument that "participants know that fantasy
is not real, thus it does not affect them". This is an active area
of debate with respect to television and movies.
While there is evidence for both sides of the argument, I will show my bias
by stating that I find it difficult to believe that we are not
somehow influenced by these media.
Virtual reality promises to have an even greater impact on
the participant, since the environment actually responds to one's
actions. As VR techniques evolve, it becomes less and less obvious
to the senses that the virtual experiences are illusory.
I believe that there is a valid question as to whether we are capable
of maintaining a purely intellectual detachment from experiences. If
our senses overwhelmingly tell us something is happening, it can be
difficult to dismiss (just check out your heartbeat or glandular
response).
Isn't it then reasonable to suggest that a person who crashes a car
repeatedly in an extremely realistic driving simulator may eventually
lose some of his fear of reckless driving?
Obviously, the more suggestable the participant, the more vulnerable
they are to assimilating the "lessons" they learn in an illusory
environment (i.e., brainwashing victims put into a suggestable state
through food or sleep deprivation will accept almost anything).
However, even stable adults may eventually be affected by repeated
immersion in illusion, and children have a much weaker grip on
"reality" to begin with.
In a nutshell...
I think the main thing that gives "reality" it's sway over "illusory"
experience is the consistency and intensity of "real" sensory inputs, and
the fact that we generally have a lot more "real" than "virtual"
experience.
This may not be true for young people, thus I believe that there is a
valid concern that they could be affected by increasingly realistic
interactive fiction.
Any comments? Lets amaze everyone by keeping this an intelligent,
flame-free debate.
Eric
--
==============================================================================
# Eric Mitchell | If HAL ran Usenet: "I'm sorry Dave. #
# | I'm afraid I can't post that." #
# MacDonald Dettwiler & Assoc. |--------------------------------------------#
# Email: e...@mda.ca | Standard disclaimers apply. #
==============================================================================
Untidy Suicide
: In article <2e3gle...@gambier.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca> Kevan Eugene Dettelbach,
: s1d...@rick.cs.ubc.ca writes:
: > Our goal in all this is not to become the morality police, just to get
: >you to think about what you and your loved ones might be playing with on some
: >snowy evening soon.
Who cares.. I just wanna blow the shit out of things.. Fu(k the media.. I
just want a little DOOM during my Christmas! Hmm..
andrew aamot
: But Doom is not a game of discovery nor of a noble quest. Doom is a kill
: or be killed shoot-em-up. It is mortal combat. Doom shows only the first-person
: viewpoint of the protagonist watching the carnage. And die, they do - in
: fountains of blood.
I can agree with the above excerpt from the Canada Computer Paper article.
Doom is senseless death and destruction. Doom is blood. Doom is addicting.
It will probably be a shining example of the extent to which computer games
have evolved over the years.
What we as a society must realize, however, is that the violence we
expose ourselves to on TV and in computer games is NOT what has caused
the violence in today's world. It's a lack of morals, and a lack of
good judgement - things which are no longer being taught to our youth as
strongly as they were years ago. Did our parents become murderers after
playing cowboys and indians when they were little? I don't believe so.
When one watches TV or plays a shoot-em-up computer game, they should
understand that it exists in that medium because it can not be allowed
to exist in real life.
Personally, when I get stressed out, or feel like tearing someone's head
off, I go play Wolfenstein. Af of this Friday, when I get those urges, I'll
go play DOOM. For me it seems that computer games are a way of releasing
those violent urges in a peaceful manner. Maybe it's just me, but
these games don't make me want to go shoot anyone.
Bringing in an example of violent television:
I am a big fan of Japanese Animation. If you're never watched any,
I assure you - it's full of blood and violence like you've never imagined.
The things is, kids watch this stuff all the time in Japan, and yet they
have one of the most peaceful and safe societies on the face of this planet.
They must be doing somethere that we're not. And that something is the
morals passed down from elders to children.
Finally, I will say that I am definitely against any type of censorship
of computer games. Young kids often don't have the resources to get
games without the assistance of a parent, so it should be up to the
parents to make a decision. If they can't explain why the object of
the game is to kill as many people as possible, then they shouldn't
allow their kids to play. The article spoke of DOOM's free distribution
as shareware; Unfortunately, young kids today do not possess the knowledge
to aquire such games directly off the net, so are again forced to work
through a parent, or other such figure.
Games are what we make of them.
And as for me, I will continue to use Wolf/DOOM as entertainment.
Don't expect my face to appear in any FBI wanted adds any time soon, either.
27 hours and counting.
-Andrew Aamot
the other one true god
>
>> Our goal in all this is not to become the morality police, just to get
>>you to think about what you and your loved ones might be playing with on some
>>snowy evening soon.
>
>>****************************************************************************
>>Well there you have it folks. Another fine piece of objectivity. I'm going
>>to give you conntact information (email addresses etc.) just in case you
>>want to comment on the above piece or cra... ah, journalism :).
> What's wrong with parents taking an interest in what games their kids are
>playing? Sadly, the number of negligent parents vastly outnumber the ones who
>take an interest in their kids...
I absolutely agree with you here. Having been involved with the school
system from the inside, I can tell you that some (not all, but far too many)
parents leave education up to the school exclusively, and this is wrong.
Parents have an obligation to teach their children. But then, I advocate
licencing parenthood, but let's not get started there.
> The bit about the link between violent games-TV has supposedly been "proved,"
>but the number is statistically negligible compared to the effects of
>censorship, IMO.
Garbage. Human beings are violent animals. We have been violent long, long
before telivision was even thought of. Back when Og and Fad fought hand-to-hand
with bloody clubs, I doubt they were inspired by thoughts of Rambo and the
Terminator. WWI, then called the great war, wasn't inspired by TV. The
Inquisition wasn't inspired by TV. And gang warfare on urban streets wasn't
started with TV (it's just GLORIFIED by TV, but again, I digress). The point
is, that violent video games/tv shows or NO violent video games/tv shows, we'll
continue to hate, to kill, to maim, to abuse and to debate whether all this is
caused by TV.
Tim Sullivan (tsul...@trentu.ca)
------------- My opinion reflects that of the entire universe. --------------
//// The Servants of Technology : | "Every cry is a song;
oo/ Reality Engineering | Every song is a prayer;
\/ We think, therefore you are. | Every prayer must be heard,
| Fill the air..." - Hothouse Flowers.
Robert W. Igo
correct publishers of freely-distributed magazines who probably think they
can hear God?
[********************************* Bob Igo ********************************]
"If I had to die,
I'd want to die of a
Nosebleed." --on the chalkboard in Porter Hall 100
[***************************** gryp...@cmu.edu ***************************]
Robert W. Igo
That explains a lot about the level of maturity we see here every now and
then... Yes, it's all becoming clear...
It amused me that he hinted at an analogy of Shareware and illegal drugs -
it comes to you free, then you have to pay for later episodes. Of course,
in DOOM's case, this analogy may be pretty accurate ;)
Mitch Burton
>off, I go play Wolfenstein. Af of this Friday, when I get those urges, I'
>those violent urges in a peaceful manner. Maybe it's just me, but
>these games don't make me want to go shoot anyone.
I agree w/ this bit. 'cept I usually paly Mortal Kombat :)
>as shareware; Unfortunately, young kids today do not possess the knowledg
^^^^^
>to aquire such games directly off the net, so are again forced to work
>through a parent, or other such figure.
That all depends on how you define "young".
--
| Mitch Burton | Think of it |
| pel...@netcom.com | as evolution |
| pel...@io.com | in action |
dkrowlan
>Here's another thought: What about playing paintball games, where you
>actually shoot a projectile at another live person. It seems to me that
>people who do this must have a need to kill. I can see the trend now:
>Watch tv/movie-->play DOOM-->paintball-->take an UZI to N.Y.C.
Hmm. yeah, good point. Actually, what do you think? Maybe if some of
those loonies who show up at work or public places with automatic
weapons and let loose on the crowds *would* play paintball (or comp.
games?) they could vent some of their anxiety and a few innocent lives
would be spared. Maybe we should promote DOOM/Wolf as therapy? ;)
Jacob C Kesinger
>It amused me that he hinted at an analogy of Shareware and illegal drugs -
>it comes to you free, then you have to pay for later episodes. Of course,
>in DOOM's case, this analogy may be pretty accurate ;)
Well, when you think about it, aren't lots of things distributed this way?
'Trial subscriptions', 'complimentary samples', you name it.
--Jake
--
Jake Kesinger n914...@henson.cc.wwu.edu
dkrowlan
>Okay, so who's working on the DOOM add-on to blast the Hell out of politically-
>correct publishers of freely-distributed magazines who probably think they
>can hear God?
:)
Alistair Brown
>A Parent's Nightmare Before Christmas
<long emotive article deleted>
>Douglas Alder
>Publisher/Editor
I assure you that if you spent all your life in front of a computer playing
a game such as doom with only short breaks of escapeism such as eating and
perhaps sleeping, then you WOULD feel the urge to kill things using big
guns.
However, most of the sane population treat computer games as escapeism that
you need to give you a break now and then. (Briefly wonders what the world
would be like without books, television and computers).
Alistair
--
Email A.D....@bradford.ac.uk
Rob Jellinghaus
>I'm very anxious to try DOOM. I'm sure I will just love the game. However, I
>wonder if psychologically, we're being damaged. ID didn't start this idea,
>though. It is obvious that good-guys bad-guys have been around forever. Our
>challenge is to make sure we do not lose the sensitivity to our fellow beings.
I agree 100% that mock violence, if it desensitizes us to real
violence, is a bad thing. I also agree that real violence is a bad
thing. But I think there is a very interesting question here that's
not been asked yet, and that is whether people are _innately_ violent.
At the end of the 19th century, there was a very finely-honed custom
of dueling in England. This was _real_ violence, between real people.
It existed in order to settle disputes and satisfy aggressive
urges. Of course, today we have football (with all its warlike
metaphors), business-as-total-war, and so on. Violence, in the sense
of the urge to do battle and win, is pretty much wired into us.
The question then becomes, how can we create outlets for this urge
that don't miswire us into mauling real people?
> I hope my short novel I've presented here doesn't sound corny. I am being
>serious when I say, our society needs to try to live up to this challenge.
I agree. I also think this requires understanding the true dimensions
of the challenge: we need to learn how to channel our violent desires,
which aren't going away, into socially safe outlets.
--
Rob Jellinghaus ro...@netcom.com uunet!netcom!robj
Daniel Lundh
The crucial question is:
How many dogs has your mother killed since?;-)
Tom Swingle
P.S.: Criminy, people, get a life!!! It's just a game, and you only have to
wait 3 years, 6 months, 8 days, 10 hours, and 53 minutes more for the release!
Can't anyone find anything better to do until then?
--
Disclaimer: Why bother? No one listens to me anyway.
ca...@urz.unibas.ch
> I do not believe that violent computer game will lead to violence.
That's my opinion too.
> First of all, actually not the most important reason, people who
> have access to computers are usually educated and they can make
> resaonable decision about their future. Now violence in games
Dead wrong. In Germany, the sick minds of the Nazi Skinheads Movement
are trying to involve the youth with illegal games entitled:
"KZ Manager" (KZ = Konzentrationslager = Concentration Camp)
"Tuerken-Massaker" (Massacre of Turks)
"Hitler lives" (An interactive Adventure...sick)
and dozens of Nazi-Online magazines....
The programs have been created by members of the Nazi-Movement...so,
where's education in that part ?
Bye, Gaetano
Switzerland
Denis R. Papp
>This editorial letter is intended as a warning to parents and people who care.
>By the time your kids are tucked in and dreamiong of suger plums, they may
>have seen the latest in sensational computer games. And they will love it.
>-You may not.
> The harbringer of this "latest" crop of games is called Doom.
>Doom Is A Gift That Bites Back.
>Doom is captivating. A press release and demo software of this new computer
>game arrived in our office this month. It generated a lot of controversy
>amoung our staff. Doom has an amazing "virtual reality" feel to it. The player
>moves through a well-rendered 3-D space in pursuit of nasty people. The hood
>ornament that guides the player through space is a loaded gun. Whenever one
>of these unfortunate souls comes into view, the idea is to press a button
>which fires the gun. The people fall down bleeding and dead. Corpses litter
>the floor in the 3-D space. The game is remarkable for the quality of its
>graphics and ease of movement through space. It has an amazingly addictive
>quality to it.
Arent you killing aliens and zombies?
> But Doom is not a game of discovery nor of a noble quest. Doom is a kill
>or be killed shoot-em-up. It is mortal combat. Doom shows only the first-person
^^^^^^^^^^^^^j
Another fine game! Not quite the same as doOM as this dude implies
>viewpoint of the protagonist watching the carnage. And die, they do - in
>fountains of blood.
Only some of the fatalities in MK have fountains of blood. BUt you
can turn othe blood and fatalities off
>games called Castle Wolfenstein (fighting Nazis in a German castle -featuring
>scenes of grisly torture) and Mortal Kombat (in which you get to literally
>rip the spine out of your oppenent). The better computer game makers get at
He should try WOLFKOSHER graphics, it might not 'disturb' him so
>their craft, and the more powerful the computers, the more we will have to
>deal with the issue of combining an enjoyable visceral experience with
>something that may be inciting violence in the real world.
Hey! I've played some pretty good games without the violence
>to train a child in guerilla warfare or to prepare him to survive a firefight
>in a war-zone, Doom is a realistic simulator. For me, however, No Thanks -
>Not In My PC.
ITs a conspiracy! The American government is financing DOOM so that America's
children will become sadistic WAR MACHINES!
>A Free Puppy?
KILL!!!
>around on diskette with no money being exchanged. No messy packaging or
>diskette labels for parents to check out. It is being offered to you and
>yours like a free puppy. Unfortunately, this may be a sick puppy.
Hey, buddy! Its rated PC-13. Kids can rent rated R movies, they can
buy rated PC-13 computer games! ITs up to the parents to check these
things out!
>[ the rest of the column goes on to tell about what is in the rest of the
> magazine, it is irrelavent to the topic of disscusion.]
>Douglas Alder
>Publisher/Editor
This guy should play SPISPOPD! Better than DOOM, and the only 'viscerals'you
see are pumpkin guts!
--
Denis Papp _ __ _ dp...@cs.ualberta.ca
/_ /_/ /\/ /-/ / / /_ dp...@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca
"Man, that little bastard smells. No wonder they call him Pooh."
-- Christopher Robin
Denis R. Papp
>>Personally, when I get stressed out, or feel like tearing someone's head
>>off, I go play Wolfenstein. Af of this Friday, when I get those urges, I'
>>go play DOOM. For me it seems that computer games are a way of releasing
>>those violent urges in a peaceful manner. Maybe it's just me, but
>>these games don't make me want to go shoot anyone.
Exactly! Did Charles Manson play DOOM? NO! And look at what he did.
If he had DOOM (or Wolf3D) - then he wouldnt be sitting in prison
wherever he is.
DOOM and other such games are good for society. These mass murderers
probably grew up playing SUPER MARIO and watching BARNEY. Thats
enough to make a lot of people quite disturbed
Tony Wong
That is very sad and it is the first time I know about this kind of thing.
This is almost like the way old Chinese communist brain wash their youths.
However this is not quite the same as violence since people even young kids
can see violence as evil thing (I hope) in real life but Racism is more
abstract and fantasy and imagination can take over easily. For kids
who have not seen the stupidity of racism, they will believe it.
Sigh.
Tony Wong
Michael Stroucken
>Dead wrong. In Germany, the sick minds of the Nazi Skinheads Movement
>are trying to involve the youth with illegal games entitled:
Not in Switzerland?
MS
--
Alle Angaben sind, wie immer, ohne Gewehr.
Michael Stroucken, mxs...@pitt.edu.
William Fang
: : Doom Is A Gift That Bites Back.
: : But Doom is not a game of discovery nor of a noble quest. Doom is a kill
: : or be killed shoot-em-up. It is mortal combat. Doom shows only the first-person
: : viewpoint of the protagonist watching the carnage. And die, they do - in
: : fountains of blood.
[...]
: What we as a society must realize, however, is that the violence we
: expose ourselves to on TV and in computer games is NOT what has caused
: the violence in today's world. It's a lack of morals, and a lack of
: good judgement - things which are no longer being taught to our youth as
: strongly as they were years ago. Did our parents become murderers after
: playing cowboys and indians when they were little? I don't believe so.
: When one watches TV or plays a shoot-em-up computer game, they should
: understand that it exists in that medium because it can not be allowed
: to exist in real life.
When I played Cowboys and Indians, I didn't image butchering the
enemy so I could watch blood ooze out of his body. Nor did I imagine
scalping him and waving the bloody mess around. These sorts of
images weren't portrayed when I was young. I can rent movies (like
Son of the Rising Star) and see quite graphic images, not the stylized
fade-to-black violence of the early 70's.
How are you meant to teach good judgement when everything you see
glorifies violence? You're saying that computer games aren't the cause,
which I can agree with, but say it's okay because we have no morals?
: Personally, when I get stressed out, or feel like tearing someone's head
: off, I go play Wolfenstein. Af of this Friday, when I get those urges, I'll
: go play DOOM. For me it seems that computer games are a way of releasing
: those violent urges in a peaceful manner. Maybe it's just me, but
: these games don't make me want to go shoot anyone.
When I was young, I never thought about tearing somebody's head off.
Decapitating someone wasn't a mainstream thought, now it's like
getting steamed or getting sore.
: Bringing in an example of violent television:
: I am a big fan of Japanese Animation. If you're never watched any,
: I assure you - it's full of blood and violence like you've never imagined.
: The things is, kids watch this stuff all the time in Japan, and yet they
: have one of the most peaceful and safe societies on the face of this planet.
Funny, I doubt if the rest of Asia takes such an attitude after various
Sino-Japanese wars, or their occupation of their countries during
World-War II. It is safe and peaceful as long as you're in the majority.
If you're one of the Ainu (aboriginals) or minorities in Japan, you're
really in a no-win situation, alieneted and living in the fringes. Japan
is peaceful because they don't have a significant underclass, have
tighter gun controls. Rich people don't wander around bashing people.
I'm not too sure of many countries that has Mafia-r-us hoodlums being
a respectable part of society. Criminals are hunted down in most
other civilized countries.
Enough Japan bashing, as I'm not against the Japanese, just any old
off-the-cuff simple causality without looking into the culture.
Enforcing the Japanese-way on a culture that has very different
outlook and expecting the same results is stupid. Heterogenous
populations aren't going to be easily socially engineered.
: They must be doing somethere that we're not. And that something is the
: morals passed down from elders to children.
And Americans don't?
: Finally, I will say that I am definitely against any type of censorship
: of computer games. Young kids often don't have the resources to get
: games without the assistance of a parent, so it should be up to the
: parents to make a decision. If they can't explain why the object of
: the game is to kill as many people as possible, then they shouldn't
: allow their kids to play. The article spoke of DOOM's free distribution
: as shareware; Unfortunately, young kids today do not possess the knowledge
: to aquire such games directly off the net, so are again forced to work
: through a parent, or other such figure.
One of the easiest shots against the "against any type of censorship"
is to ask whether you support child pornography? Saying that you are
pro-kiddie-porn would probably make you lose your job, friends and
significant other.
My 13 year old brother can call any old BBS and grab all sorts of files,
from pornography to pirated software.
: Games are what we make of them.
: And as for me, I will continue to use Wolf/DOOM as entertainment.
Are you going to view the next generation of 24bit photo-realistic,
full-motion games as just entertainment? The distinction between
stylized computer graphics (like 8bit cpu games) and graphic videos
is going to get blurred very quickly.
- Jim
James L Brookes
int...@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (William Fang) writes:
>Funny, I doubt if the rest of Asia takes such an attitude after various
>Sino-Japanese wars, or their occupation of their countries during
>World-War II. It is safe and peaceful as long as you're in the majority.
FYI, Japanese Animation gained popularity well after WWII. If anything,
this would tend to support the original poster's views.
>If you're one of the Ainu (aboriginals) or minorities in Japan, you're
>really in a no-win situation, alieneted and living in the fringes. Japan
Gee, that sounds a lot like the situation Native Americans are in. What
exactly does this have to do with Video Games, however?
>My 13 year old brother can call any old BBS and grab all sorts of files,
>from pornography to pirated software.
Then perhaps your mother or father should yank his computer privilages until
he stops, if they care? There is too much laisse fair (major butchering
here in the spelling, but oh well :-) when it comes to modern day parents
raising their children. I'd say that's a much larger part of the problem
than computer porn, video games, or Japanese Animation.
>Are you going to view the next generation of 24bit photo-realistic,
>full-motion games as just entertainment? The distinction between
>stylized computer graphics (like 8bit cpu games) and graphic videos
>is going to get blurred very quickly.
Well, we're not there yet, are we? Until them, all prognostications of
DOOM (not the game ;) are somewhat premature.
>- Jim
Really, can we get back to video games?
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
| James Brookes | Inet: bb...@cleveland.freenet.edu |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman | jam...@ecst.csuchico.edu |
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mark 'Mark' Sachs
[other stuff I agree with, deleted]
> ... The article spoke of DOOM's free distribution
>as shareware; Unfortunately, young kids today do not possess the knowledge
>to aquire such games directly off the net, so are again forced to work
>through a parent, or other such figure.
Hold on. I would say that's a good thing.
Don't get me wrong, DOOM is absolutely marvelous. But I'd want to keep it
far away from young kids who haven't yet formed firm senses of morals, et
cetera. Similarily for games such as Syndicate and Mortal Kombat, and
probably Wolfenstein 3D as well. In these games your objective is to
create realistic, bloody slaughter, for which you are rewarded; and IMHO
this _would_ have a bad effect on young children.
However, I am _not_ advocating some kind of Big Brother-ish outfit to
restrict violent games (and movies, and TV, and...) It must be the parents'
duty to govern what their children see until they are mature enough to
differentiate between reality and fantasy. At that point, bring on the
DOOM! (I know it would have been very satisfying to me during certain
points in high school...)
That's all I have to say on the matter. Go ahead and hit the "n" key. Hey --
why are you hitting "1"? What are you doing with that chainsaw? AIIEE --
Mmmm... floor pie.
[Your blood pressure just went up.] Mark Sachs, aka mbs...@psuvm.psu.edu
DISCLAIMER: Hah! As if Penn State cares about what a _student_ has to say!
Matthew Zenkar
: pel...@netcom.com (Mitch Burton) writes:
: >>Personally, when I get stressed out, or feel like tearing someone's head
: >>off, I go play Wolfenstein. Af of this Friday, when I get those urges, I'
: >>go play DOOM. For me it seems that computer games are a way of releasing
: >>those violent urges in a peaceful manner. Maybe it's just me, but
: >>these games don't make me want to go shoot anyone.
: Exactly! Did Charles Manson play DOOM? NO! And look at what he did.
: If he had DOOM (or Wolf3D) - then he wouldnt be sitting in prison
: wherever he is.
Wasn't good 'ole Charlie inspired by the bible? Hey, there's one for all
you flamers of this guy's article. Seems to me that more people have
been incited to violence by the bible than by video games. Heck, this is
true throughout all of the last 2000 years, at least! From the crusades to
David Koresh. What an awesome thought!!
My opinion? The violence in today's society is more a result of dysfunctional
families, parents who beat their kids, and parents who can't get along and
fight between themselves than other media. Hey, kids learn how to "love"
from their parents. There are probably millions of parents out there who
don't know how to love and, therefore, can't set a proper example of how
to get along with others. Thus, unless the "kids" realize something is
wrong with THEIR behavior, they continue to do the same thing in all
their relationships.
Sure, DOOM is violent, hey, it even scared me with all its screams played
through my stereo, but I can seperate reality from illusion. And any kid
with decent parents can be taught that it is just that, ILLUSION.
: DOOM and other such games are good for society. These mass murderers
: probably grew up playing SUPER MARIO and watching BARNEY. Thats
: enough to make a lot of people quite disturbed
No, probably more likely the bible.
--
Matthew Zenkar "THBBT" -- Bill the Cat
m...@moscom.com
or
My opinions do not reflect those of either of the organizations in my email
address.
Kendall Beaman
:In <rdippold.755322169@happy> rdip...@qualcomm.com (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold) writes:
:
:
:>>their spare time. If we as a society don't want crime in the streets, if we
:>>don't want people to seek violent solutions to their problems, what are we
:>>doing using games like these?
:
:>Not confusing fantasy with reality.
:
:
: Bingo. And...I think the author of that article( in the computer
:paper that is )shot themselves in the foot by asdmitting it was a game.
:Well, if it's a game( as they say )then they won't confuse it with what is
:not a game( life ), which is what you say.
:
:
:Tom
:
Now don't get me wrong. I LOVE games like Doom but I must say this. Most
of us who can tell between game and fantasy have mature enough minds to handle
it. I wouldn't want any of my (YOUNGER) relatives to play but then again
television is violent and songs are violent. Guess what? We live in a violent
world. Suprise! I grew up with violence all around me. Looking over my
shoulder constantly, so maybe I'm not the best person to check on this subject,
but EVERYONE is affected by violence. We each handle it in a different way.
Anytime I see articles like this I get nervous because people will start trying
to censor what they don't like, taking away their own rights in the process.
Even though the author says he's not talking about censorship, I'm sure that
it's on some minds. Sad to say if you do have trouble telling fantasy from
reality, you're going to be in a lot more trouble than DOOM can get you in.
My point in all this is to say this: I love violent games but don't use the
"it's only a game" excuse to deny that these games don't exactly help people.
Reality: There are people who are negatively affected by them. I'm not
suggesting anything about trying to censor games but I don't like seeing
this point ridiculed by those of us who can play these games without any
"noticable" negative effect. That's all. BTW: I just downloaded DOOM and
will be setting it up later on today. Have fun all.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind what Congress does, as long as they don't do it in the
streets and frighten the horses. -- Victor Hugo
bea...@andrews.edu
Marc Ries
saying that DOOM was supposed to support the Pro Audio Spectrum (native)
mode (e.g, the "original" PAS board) for special-effects sounds.
I notice that the shareware version does not support native PAS.
Does anyone know if this is fixed in the "registered" version?
Ron Asbestos Dippold
> My point in all this is to say this: I love violent games but
don't use the
>"it's only a game" excuse to deny that these games don't exactly help people.
It's a great way to work off some agression. I find them quite
therapeutic at times.
>Reality: There are people who are negatively affected by them. I'm not
Who? Anyone who is so seriously screwed up that a video game
negatively effects them is a walking time bomb who might be set off by
a commercial or "bad" book. Pandering to psychotics isn't something a
game company should have to do.
--
The best laid plans of mice and men are usually about equal. -- Blair
jburke
he wrote the reply..
/-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-\
| James Burke | By reading this you agree not to hold |
| | the writer responsible for any evil |
| jbu...@bates.edu | happening that may befall you at any time. |
Patrick C Miller
: Attention all soon-to-be DOOM players, the following appeared as an
: editorial in the B.C. Lower Mainland December edition of the
: "Computer Paper", a freely distributed computer newspaper/magazine. I will
: follow the article with an address where you can get in touch with the
: editor. Please, do not mail me about this.
: *****************************************************************************
: A Parent's Nightmare Before Christmas
: This editorial letter is intended as a warning to parents and people who
: care.
: By the time your kids are tucked in and dreamiong of suger plums, they may
: have seen the latest in sensational computer games. And they will love it.
: -You may not.
Tell me why anyone should be surprised by the media's reaction to Doom?
I'm certainly not. It's exactly the type of predictable garbage the press
doles out every day. Get real. If you thought the mainstream press was
going to accept a game like Doom with open arms, you're living in dreamland.
: ****************************************************************************
: Well there you have it folks. Another fine piece of objectivity. I'm going
: to give you conntact information (email addresses etc.) just in case you
: want to comment on the above piece or cra... ah, journalism :).
Here's a news flash: It was an editorial. Editorials aren't supposed
to be objective. They represent the opinion of the writer or the
publication, which is why they're not run on the news pages.
If this publication feels it is doing a public service by alerting
parents to the graphic violence in Doom, fine, more power to it. I have no
objection to that. As for the psycho babble about games like Doom being
responsible for violence in our society, well, that's just someone's
opinion.
I grew up watching Popeye and Bluto beat the tar out of each other and
watching James Arness gun down a man every week at the start of Gun Smoke.
I am very far from being a violent person as a result. I teach my kids
that violence is inappropriate except in extreme cases where they have no
other choice.
My five-year-old son plays Wolfenstein 3D and Blake Stone frequently.
He has never so much as slapped another child. I feel it is my
responsibility as a parent to teach my children about violence by placing
it in it's proper context and perspective.
I don't let my son play Doom simply because I'm afraid the monsters in
it will give him nightmares, not because of the violence. I do know that
as a result of playing Wolfenstein, my boy hates Nazis and the SS with a
passion. The game has enabled me to have some good discussions with him
about the cruelty of the Nazis during the war and to help explain the
history of the war to him. So you see, if a parent knows what his or her
child is doing and is willing to spend some time to interact with the
child, what appears on the surface to be a game full of senseless violence
can have a positive impact on the child's development.
--Patrick Miller
Patrick C Miller
: In <rdippold.755322169@happy> rdip...@qualcomm.com (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold) writes:
: >Not confusing fantasy with reality.
: I often hear the argument that "participants know that fantasy
: is not real, thus it does not affect them". This is an active area
: of debate with respect to television and movies.
: While there is evidence for both sides of the argument, I will show my bias
: by stating that I find it difficult to believe that we are not
: somehow influenced by these media.
I think some people are more easily influenced by what they see, hear and
read than others. For example, I once knew a guy who was involved in a
role playing game. It was some type of military game that he was playing
solitaire. You could talk to this guy and he would seem to lapse between
his fantasy chararcter and true self, which was pretty spooky. If no one
talked to him (and most people tended to avoid him), he would carry on
conversations between himself and his character in the game. Even more
spooky...
I have known other people involved in role playing games who tended to
get overly involved in their characters and have difficulty separating
fantasy from reality. This does not necessarily make them dangerous (just
wierd), and I'm sure a large majority of them are basically harmless. My
point is, if you're a person who tends to have trouble seeing the
difference between fantasy and reality, you're probably going to find
something that may negatively influence you, whether it's a computer game,
a TV show or movie, a book or a magazine article. Are you going to ban
everything that stands a chance of triggering a negative reaction in a
mentally unbalanced person? Good luck...
: Virtual reality promises to have an even greater impact on
: the participant, since the environment actually responds to one's
: actions. As VR techniques evolve, it becomes less and less obvious
: to the senses that the virtual experiences are illusory.
: I believe that there is a valid question as to whether we are capable
: of maintaining a purely intellectual detachment from experiences. If
: our senses overwhelmingly tell us something is happening, it can be
: difficult to dismiss (just check out your heartbeat or glandular
: response).
I have virtual reality experiences all the time: they're called dreams.
They are more realistic than any computer simulation will be for the
foreseeable future. Yet just because they seem so real and can trigger
emotional and physical responses from me, I do not feel the need to go out
into the real world and act out my dreams. Few people do.
: Isn't it then reasonable to suggest that a person who crashes a car
: repeatedly in an extremely realistic driving simulator may eventually
: lose some of his fear of reckless driving?
Isn't it then reasonable to suggest that a writer who reads great novels
all the time will eventually write one? I play Stunt Driver a great deal,
but I have no desire to try jumping my car over an operating draw bridge.
: Obviously, the more suggestable the participant, the more vulnerable
: they are to assimilating the "lessons" they learn in an illusory
: environment (i.e., brainwashing victims put into a suggestable state
: through food or sleep deprivation will accept almost anything).
: However, even stable adults may eventually be affected by repeated
: immersion in illusion, and children have a much weaker grip on
: "reality" to begin with.
I agree, as stated earlier, that some people are more susceptible to being
influenced by fantasy. But I also believe that when we dream, we are
repeatedly immersed in illusion, so it's not like humans are suddenly
experiencing something completely different when they play a game like
Doom (which, but the way, does remind me of dreams I've had).
: In a nutshell...
: I think the main thing that gives "reality" it's sway over "illusory"
: experience is the consistency and intensity of "real" sensory inputs, and
: the fact that we generally have a lot more "real" than "virtual"
: experience.
When you take into account dreaming, watching TV, going to movies and
reading fiction, I'm not so certain that most people do spend more time in
virtual experience. This, of course, varies by individual, but my guess
is that most people spend far more time in some form of "virtual reality"
then you're counting.
: This may not be true for young people, thus I believe that there is a
: valid concern that they could be affected by increasingly realistic
: interactive fiction.
I believe it's up to parents to place their childrens' experiences
(virtual or real) into the proper context to enable them to interact
appropriately with others. Sounding alarm bells about games like Doom
only serves as a smokescreen to hide from responsibility and disguise the
larger failings of our society.
: Any comments? Lets amaze everyone by keeping this an intelligent,
: flame-free debate.
I've tried.
Patrick "I don't believe in tag lines" Miller
Markku Herd
>bea...@andrews.edu (Kendall Beaman) writes:
>> My point in all this is to say this: I love violent games but
>> don't use the
>>"it's only a game" excuse to deny that these games don't exactly help people.
>It's a great way to work off some agression. I find them quite
>therapeutic at times.
I agree to some point. I absolutely LOVE Doom, but then I wouldn't
want my six-year-old little brother play it.
--
- Markku Herd ( he...@lut.fi )
File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
/EARTH is 98% full. Please delete anybody you can.
(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer
Daniel Kupersmit
>a game such as doom with only short breaks of escapeism such as eating and
>perhaps sleeping, then you WOULD feel the urge to kill things using big
>guns.
Of course, if you did this, you wouldn't really have the TIME to go
out and kill things with big guns now, would you.
There, problem solved.
Yossi Oren
jbu...@abacus.bates.edu (jburke) writes:
>In article <1993Dec14.1...@venice.sedd.trw.com> ri...@hqrim.sedd.trw.com (Marc Ries) writes:
>> Long ago and far away I remember reading some pre-DOOM posts
>> saying that DOOM was supposed to support the Pro Audio Spectrum (native)
>> mode (e.g, the "original" PAS board) for special-effects sounds.
>>
>> I notice that the shareware version does not support native PAS.
>>
>> Does anyone know if this is fixed in the "registered" version?
>>
>When I e-mailed Jay about this I got back that they were working at it as
>he wrote the reply..
I've already solved my problem with my PAS - namely, my PAS. I'm moving to a
Gravis card by the end of this week. Maybe you should too.
Yossi.
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Where the sanest place... | lio...@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il