3D Realms - KILLBITCH
David Laprad
shoot them, in DN3D with several others who visit this sight. I felt it
was offensive, they said it was just the right measure of political
incorrectness. I was beginning to see their point of view, and was still
considering buying the game, until...
I saw the line KILLBITCH in user.com. I think that clearly indicates the
intent of 3D Realms. I wonder, if anyone from 3D Realms who worked on
the game is reading this, can you tell us why that definition is called
that? It simply goes to far. Women, whether they are strippers or
lawyers, should no be referred to as bitches, unless, of course, one has
no respect for other people and still lives in the dark ages.
I am not advocating censorship, I just want to know your motivations.
Mark Higgins
I have to agree. I think Duke 3D is a great game, but these bits of
irratingly sexist crap sort of turn me off of it.
Mark Higgins | Queen's University Astrophysics
ma...@astro.queensu.ca | Kingston, Ontario, Canada
http://astro.queensu.ca/~mark |
"If it's not true, it's well told."
-Old Italian proverb
Douglas E Thompson
when I originally posted. Luckily for me, stress levels NEVER get THAT
high!
One thing. All those studies about violence on TV affecting kids and
whatnot are almost always funded by religious right groups who still
think rock music is the work of the devil. My attitude toward violence
in TV programs, movies, computer games, etc. is that if you don't want
your kids to be exposed to this, turn it off. Take some parental
control. Censoring everything is not a solution at all. When you start
censoring things, you have to censor everything else, lest you upset
another faction somewhere. That leads to everything collapsing in on
itself until everyone is totally bland and non-diverse.
But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. (I like Dennis Miller. So
sue me!)
Doug Thompson
(dt...@andrew.cmu.edu)
(ens...@cmu.edu)
Carnegie Mellon University
"The Truth Is Out There"
The X-Files
Master of Puppets
>I had been debating the value of the strippers, and our abilility to
>shoot them, in DN3D with several others who visit this sight. I felt it
>was offensive, they said it was just the right measure of political
>incorrectness. I was beginning to see their point of view, and was still
>considering buying the game, until...
>I saw the line KILLBITCH in user.com. I think that clearly indicates the
>intent of 3D Realms. I wonder, if anyone from 3D Realms who worked on
>the game is reading this, can you tell us why that definition is called
>that? It simply goes to far. Women, whether they are strippers or
>lawyers, should no be referred to as bitches, unless, of course, one has
>no respect for other people and still lives in the dark ages.
"Clealy indicates the intent of 3D Realms" ? Nothing is clear when
you take it out of context. How in hell do you know it is referring
to the women? Have you thought about the boss? Duke says "Die, you
son of a bitch"; it could refer to the boss, or to just about anybody
else. Just because you find the phrase "stone the woman" or something
similar in the bible, are you going to interpret that as the bible's
intention to advocate violence towards women?
Perhaps I'll inform you now and say that there are countless rap (and
other music) CD's plus a staggering number of movies which display
sexism and violence (and the word bitch) to women repeatedly and in
much greater magnitude than Duke3d. You can't argue that these forms
of media are *much* more widely available to the people we *should*
have concern for: the children. Why don't you spend your time and
energy on that issue, which is far more clear and obvious than the one
in Duke3D?
Man, the length people go to...searching executables...that is sad...
---
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Douglas E Thompson
This is just a game people. Not some anti-politcal correctness statement
made by 3D REALMS. It is JUST A GAME!!! You people seem to love to read
WAY TOO MUCH into these games. First it was the Satanism in Doom and
Doom II. Then it was the senseless violence. Now it is the portrayal of
women in Duke Nukem 3D. These are all just games. They are not intended
to support the behavior contained within. Most normal people understand
that. A few of you seem to have trouble grasping the difference between
fact and fiction. For example, a programmer decides to use a descriptive
name for a function that you don't agree with or offends you. You really
aren't supposed to be messing around with it in the first place, let
alone criticizing it. In case you haven't noticed, the political
correctness fad (and that is all it was, let's face it.) is waning.
We've got to understand that you can't please all of the people all of
the time, regardless of how hard you try. But that is certainly no
reason to make games watered-down. I mean, how much game-playing
satisfaction can you get from not being able to relieve some of your
stress?? Is it better to keep all your stress and frustrations with the
world pent up inside of you, or is it better to find a release (in
something such as a computer game or a sport or whatever) that insures
you won't eventually snap and really do something violent? I think the
latter is by far the better. You may or may not agree, but why waste all
this bandwidth complaining about games? Focus your efforts on more
important issues (or at least on boards actually having something to DO
with your complaint).
Just my $.02,
Mark Kundinger
>I'm at work right now and don't have access to the game, but...
>I saw that also, and I immediately thought of it as another Aliens reference.
>You know...the Bitch from Aliens was the mother alien. I was already thinking
>in that frame of mind because of the cocoon women saying "kill me".
>Maybe someone can tell us what the KILLBITCH definition is for, but I would
>be suprised (and like you, offended) if it actually referred to the women
>in either the bar or the strip joint.
The duke3d.con file is a (long) "script" type document that outlines
what happens in the game in various scenarios (like when a trash can is shot,
for instance).
Looking through that, the KILLBITCH sound is for when any femal
civilian dies. (That sorta high pitched creepy shriek).
Tsk. Tsk.
At least Duke often follows up a civilian death with a comment like
"Damn", implying that he isn't a totally cruel heartless bastard :).
Mark
Unknown
>I had been debating the value of the strippers, and our abilility to
>shoot them, in DN3D with several others who visit this sight. I felt it
>was offensive, they said it was just the right measure of political
>incorrectness. I was beginning to see their point of view, and was still
>considering buying the game, until...
>
>I saw the line KILLBITCH in user.com. I think that clearly indicates the
>intent of 3D Realms. I wonder, if anyone from 3D Realms who worked on
>the game is reading this, can you tell us why that definition is called
>that? It simply goes to far. Women, whether they are strippers or
>lawyers, should no be referred to as bitches, unless, of course, one has
>no respect for other people and still lives in the dark ages.
>
>I am not advocating censorship, I just want to know your motivations.
shutup buttmunch hehehehheheh hehehehhehehehheheheheh
=======================================================================
Axe-slingin' Evan Williams swillin' bit fiddlin head kickin' net tyrant
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Up the Irons!!! | Sorry for the inconvenience, I'll go get a mop.
IRON MAIDEN | - Beavis
=======================================================================
T McDonald
Philip Epstein <p...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>Douglas E Thompson <enso...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>
>>alone criticizing it. In case you haven't noticed, the political
>>correctness fad (and that is all it was, let's face it.) is waning.
>>We've got to understand that you can't please all of the people all of
>>the time, regardless of how hard you try. But that is certainly no
>
>It is one thing to be against political correctness, it's another
>thing to say that not calling women bitches is political
>correctness!!!!
Calling women? Well sorry pall I may have missed the update from the
Men's World Organization For the Advancement of Oppressing Women, but
last time I checked, all women weren't bar flies and stripers serving
alien zoology experiments.
>Personally I don't really care that much about the KILLBITCH
>reference, although I think that would be somewhat offensive if it
>referred to the strippers, dancers, etc...
Personaly, I think all of this hand wringing is HI-larious. Well, at
least it's way funnier than Arnold than that pig on Green Acers.
Philip Epstein
>name for a function that you don't agree with or offends you. You really
>aren't supposed to be messing around with it in the first place, let
Well actually they ENCOURAGE you to play around with the USER.CON
files, so that statement is incorrect.
>alone criticizing it. In case you haven't noticed, the political
>correctness fad (and that is all it was, let's face it.) is waning.
>We've got to understand that you can't please all of the people all of
>the time, regardless of how hard you try. But that is certainly no
Obviously you're taking the ANTI-political correctness fad too far.
It is one thing to be against political correctness, it's another
thing to say that not calling women bitches is political
correctness!!!!
Personally I don't really care that much about the KILLBITCH
reference, although I think that would be somewhat offensive if it
referred to the strippers, dancers, etc...
Phil Epstein
Craig Edrington
>I am not advocating censorship, I just want to know your motivations.
I'm no psychic, but, after playing the game rather extensively, I'd
say the motivation was simply "Anything for a laugh."
Now, the question is: Does that make it ok?
I know what I think.
Craig
T McDonald
David Laprad <psc1...@frank.mtsu.edu> wrote:
>I had been debating the value of the strippers, and our abilility to
>shoot them, in DN3D with several others who visit this sight. I felt it
>was offensive, they said it was just the right measure of political
>incorrectness. I was beginning to see their point of view, and was still
>considering buying the game, until...
>
>I saw the line KILLBITCH in user.com. I think that clearly indicates the
>intent of 3D Realms. I wonder, if anyone from 3D Realms who worked on
>the game is reading this, can you tell us why that definition is called
>that? It simply goes to far. Women, whether they are strippers or
>lawyers, should no be referred to as bitches, unless, of course, one has
>no respect for other people and still lives in the dark ages.
>
Hey, any woman that does the bump and grind for a bunch of Pig Cops, and
Tiger guys is a bitch.
Rob Jellinghaus
>Hey, any woman that does the bump and grind for a bunch of Pig Cops, and
>Tiger guys is a bitch.
Great. So the only women in Duke Nukem 3D are bitches. I agree with
the folks who find this to be a major turn-off to the game. I was
really enjoying it until I realized that besides Duke, the only other
humans in the game were gratuitous "bitches".
3D Realms is losing sales over this....
--
Rob Jellinghaus ro...@best.com
Seth Messing
exercised - censorship of any kind cannot be accepted in a free
society. The question is: if there is no choice, what then? If the
producers of TV shows, movies, computer games, are convinced that sex
and violence sells, then we have no choices left. The answer is that
rather than rant about censorship or, actually pass laws like this
latest attempt to keep porn (or stuff about abortion!) off the Net,
folks should vote with their pocketbooks. If you don't like it, don't
buy it, don't watch it, don't subscribe to it.
Anyway, thanks for your response, Doug. I'm not sure about your
comments on the studies on TV violence. Many of them have been
conducted by (and funded by) allegedly bias-free organizations and
I've heard that there really no longer is disagreement about the
findings. After all, if what you watch on TV has no affect, then
there is a multi-billion dollar industry that has been engaged in a
massive con game for years (advertising industry). However, I
completely agree with you on censorship. I will defend 3DRealms'
right to produce a game that incorporates sexist representations,
procedures labelled KILLBITCH, etc. However, I will probably choose
not to buy the game when it comes out - that's my right. Of course
the fact that I have about a million games that I have yet to complete
might have something to do with it too!
Seth
>Douglas E Thompson <enso...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>I concede that I missed the point a bit. I was in a slightly bad mood
>when I originally posted. Luckily for me, stress levels NEVER get THAT
>high!
>One thing. All those studies about violence on TV affecting kids and
>whatnot are almost always funded by religious right groups who still
>think rock music is the work of the devil. My attitude toward violence
>in TV programs, movies, computer games, etc. is that if you don't want
>your kids to be exposed to this, turn it off. Take some parental
>control. Censoring everything is not a solution at all. When you start
>censoring things, you have to censor everything else, lest you upset
>another faction somewhere. That leads to everything collapsing in on
>itself until everyone is totally bland and non-diverse.
>But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. (I like Dennis Miller. So
>sue me!)
Philip Epstein
>>Obviously you're taking the ANTI-political correctness fad too far.
>>It is one thing to be against political correctness, it's another
>>thing to say that not calling women bitches is political
>>correctness!!!!
>Calling women? Well sorry pall I may have missed the update from the
>Men's World Organization For the Advancement of Oppressing Women, but
>last time I checked, all women weren't bar flies and stripers serving
>alien zoology experiments.
Okay fine, even if it just refers to calling strippers bitches, the
point still stands.
>Personaly, I think all of this hand wringing is HI-larious. Well, at
>least it's way funnier than Arnold than that pig on Green Acers.
Yeah I'm really wringing my hands over this. I don't give a fuck
really what it says since it's in a .CON file and it's not as if Duke
actually calls the strippers bitches. What I find HI-larious is how
everyone jumps down the throat of the first person who just MIGHT find
some things in Duke offensive.
Phil Epstein
I'm not one of those people who find it offensive though :)
Ulrich Bretthauer
Are you sure? In Wolfenstein you have to kill Germans, Nazis indeed, but Hitler
is dead since 1945. In DOOM there are alot of Nazi symbols, so the german authorities
prohibit the US version (It is not allowed to own it, if they find it, it will
be confiscated). Reasons to be offended? Not in my oppinion. Maybe I am a bit
indifferent, but these are games. Games where you have to kill and shoot and kill.
If you have moral objections, focus on this fact.
Bye,
Ulrich
Master of Puppets
>Master of Puppets (tbe...@nwu.edu) wrote:
[SNAP]
>What if that procedure in GAME.CON were KILLNIGGER, or STOMPFAGGOT, or
>ROASTKIKE? would this thread still be out of line?
Obviously not, but the word "bitch" might be referring to the phrase
"son of a bitch," which Duke uses several times ("Die, you son of a
bitch," and "Lucky son of a bitch). Based on this and the fact that
he never uses the term "bitch" to describe anybody else but aliens,
"KILLBITCH" is most probably a name of a routine involved with the end
boss or something.
Besides, "son of a bitch" is a pretty powerful phrase. I would
probably scream "die you bitch" if I were up against a huge ugly
creature, too, and I would NOT be thinking of the female gender.
[SNAP]
Chris Miller
: Great. So the only women in Duke Nukem 3D are bitches. I agree with
: the folks who find this to be a major turn-off to the game. I was
: really enjoying it until I realized that besides Duke, the only other
: humans in the game were gratuitous "bitches".
: 3D Realms is losing sales over this....
Hmmmm.... This would be a shame.
I think what you are missing here is that this is fantasy. I don't
think Duke3D is trying to predict a future for the planet earth where we
have to battle Pig and Tiger guys and all of the women are bitches. This
is however the setting for this game. The designers obviously TRIED to
make the setting what it is. This is not a slam to real life women, our
real life "setting" is obviously different.
I have a question for you as well: were you upset with Doom I&II, Crusader,
etc, etc for protraying all men (except the player) as twisted scumbags
trying to kill you? Heck even in DN3D all the goons and fiends who are
trying to kill you are masculine. Should we be upset at this? Should we
be upset that in almost any action, strategy or role playing game, we take
great pleasure in killing beings that are almost always men or at least
obviously masculine?
No - because this is fantasy. It makes no statement on real life.
And it's a hoot!!
Chris
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"How long does John Daly drive the ball?"
"When I was a kid, I didn't go that far on vacation."
- Chi Chi Rodriguez
--------
Christopher S. Miller
1131 Pheasant Dr.
Ft. Collins, Co. 80525
c...@alien.fc.hp.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Raymond Espiritu -just call me Ray
>I saw the line KILLBITCH in user.com. I think that clearly indicates the
>intent of 3D Realms. I wonder, if anyone from 3D Realms who worked on
>the game is reading this, can you tell us why that definition is called
>that? It simply goes to far. Women, whether they are strippers or
Killbitch might NOT refer to the strippers in the game?
I remember in my younger days my friends and I
would think up weird and interesting names for our programs
and subroutines. In fact, a friend of mine in grad school
had a subroutine called SHOWTITS. Guess what??
It was short for SHOW TITLEs! It put atitle and
axis labels on a graph. Now, unless you KNOW that
Killbitch is refers to a section of the code dealing with
the women in the game, shouldn't you stop and think about
what else it could mean?
Just a thought.
Ray
Mark C. Alfero
>In article <4ft5l4$b...@isdnlin.mtsu.edu>,
>David Laprad <psc1...@frank.mtsu.edu> wrote:
>>I had been debating the value of the strippers, and our abilility to
>>shoot them, in DN3D with several others who visit this sight. I felt it
>>was offensive, they said it was just the right measure of political
>>incorrectness. I was beginning to see their point of view, and was still
>>considering buying the game, until...
>>
>>intent of 3D Realms. I wonder, if anyone from 3D Realms who worked on
>>the game is reading this, can you tell us why that definition is called
>>that? It simply goes to far. Women, whether they are strippers or
>>no respect for other people and still lives in the dark ages.
>>
>>I am not advocating censorship, I just want to know your motivations.
>
>Tiger guys is a bitch.
Well I have to admit that this was the funniest line in this thread yet!
Now really, if being able to shoot the women didn't bother you all that
much before you saw that line in the .CON file, then what's the big deal.
This is just a game, so what if there are a few individuals at Apogee/3drealms
who don't like women very much, ok at all. They just write code and probably
put in what ever came to their mind at the time. If you start reading into
all this stuff in todays games you may end up not buying some of the best
programmers programs. If I could write code like these guys I wouldn't think
twice about offending a few people. So lets lighten up here, I personally
didn't like the Satan stuff in Doom, but it sure didn't stop me from enjoying
the game.
Cheers,
Mark
Brit Willoughby
>On 15 Feb 1996 13:09:04 -0800, ro...@shellx.best.com (Rob Jellinghaus)
>wrote:
>>>Hey, any woman that does the bump and grind for a bunch of Pig Cops, and
>>>Tiger guys is a bitch.
True by my opinion. And they deserve to be wasted... But I don't
think that was the point...
>>Great. So the only women in Duke Nukem 3D are bitches. I agree with
>>the folks who find this to be a major turn-off to the game.
>>3D Realms is losing sales over this....
They make the game to sell to the majority, you and those that
think in limited terms like you are the minority they are making tons off
this... Your opinion means nothing...
>And it's in a file which most users will never see. Whether it means
>the women, or a boss is in question. If it is the women, yes it is
>offensive, but they could easily change that. Regardless, it would
>hardly be out of place with the nature of the game. I suggest you go
>somewhere else for PC behavoir, as Duke is about the most anti-PC game
>you're going to find.
Here is the so called 'offending line'.
圬efinesound KILLBITCH killme.voc -128 0 0 0 0
Had you bothered to look at it, or even do a seconds worth of
research, (not that your IQ allows you to understand what research is),
you would have found that the line is the sound that the half-women
make in the cacoons. It's a take off on Aliens. The sound plays "kill me"
when you get close to them. The last Alien was called a bitch by weaver.
The the half mutated females are refered to as bitch because they are no
longer human. I believe the exacxt quote was "Get away from her, you bitch'.
That is where the name KILLBITCH comes from. If you cannot
understand this explanation, or you cannot read it, go jump off the
nearest overpass in front of the largest MAC truck you can find, and
do us all a favor...
Otherwise, please leave those of us intellegent enough to make
our own desicions alone. We will decide wether we want to play the game
or not...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Win95:
It isn't an operating system, it's a "square peg in a round hole" test.
Brit Willoughby
bawi...@southwind.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hunter
snip
>More of a personal statement. To apply that to a movie would be like
>seeing SET DESIGN BITCH: MARY JOHNSON in the end credits.
snip
I, for one, would not be surprised to see this at the end of a Zucker
brothers movie....and I'd laugh my head off.
Hunter
"I'm trying so hard to act like nothing happened.
I'm trying so hard to find that fresh, clean smell." -FNM
Brit Willoughby
>
>In article <4g2r2f$g...@steel.interlog.com>, dav...@interlog.com says...
>>On 15 Feb 1996 13:09:04 -0800, ro...@shellx.best.com (Rob Jellinghaus)
>>wrote:
>>>In article <4fvvkv$1...@nntp5.u.washington.edu> guy...@u.washington.edu (T
>McDonald) writes:
>
>>>>Hey, any woman that does the bump and grind for a bunch of Pig Cops, and
>>>>Tiger guys is a bitch.
>
> True by my opinion. And they deserve to be wasted... But I don't
>think that was the point...
>
>>>Great. So the only women in Duke Nukem 3D are bitches. I agree with
>>>the folks who find this to be a major turn-off to the game.
>>>3D Realms is losing sales over this....
>
> They make the game to sell to the majority, you and those that
>think in limited terms like you are the minority they are making tons off
>this... Your opinion means nothing...
>
Can that last post. It was supposed to be E-Mailed to a bozo that
sent me a nasty E-Mail, but it got sent to the group by accident. Didn't
realize it was in here till I saw it this morning. Hate it when that
happens.
Sorry 'bout that. :)
Che'
This is a dangerous excuse.
Just because Duke 3-D is a game set in a "fantasy world"
does not mean that the programmers, or the people hacking
into user.con (or whatever file it was) do. The fact that
the programmers included the comment in an area outside of
the game meant that it was a statement of opinion.
To me, Duke 3-D is tacky. The deathmatch may be fun, but
in 1 player, I feel like I'm in a bad version of "Cool World."
-che'
GEORGE BROUSSARD
-> Doug, I think you're missing the point. The original poster didn't
-> object to the dancing women, etc.. However, when we find out that
-> the folks writing the game use KILLBITCH as a procedure name, this
-> kind of alters things a bit. Sure, maybe we shouldn't be poking
-> around in the code, but if we do and find this kind of thing, it does
-> raise
-> questions about the motivations of the game designers.
Don't read too much into this. All the Duke developer's are normal guys
like everyone else. Trust me. Nobody hates women :) In any case, i
had this renamed as it was just a code thing.
George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
Kevin Yip
think again. A while ago, LucasArts issued the following letter of
apology on CompuServe precisely because of this kind of thing:
A message from Randy Komisar, President of LucasArts Entertainment
Company, regarding offensive computer code in Dark Forces
We at LucasArts apologize for lines of computer code contained in Dark
Forces. In an act of inappropriate humor, a young programmer included an
offensive phrase in the management code during the development process.
This type of code is a debugging aid, not part of the actual game. He
inadvertently failed to remove the computer code when development was
completed.
LucasArts and George Lucas do not in anyway condone the use of such
offensive terms, even in situations such as this where the language is
not intended to be viewed by players. We would like to reiterate that
the phrase
exists only in the code and does not appear anywhere during game play,
nor does it relate in any way to the game's subject matter or the
company's operations.
The offensive language has been removed from all future builds of the
product. LucasArts will provide a new version to anyone who wishes to
return his or her current copy. We have taken action internally to
prevent this kind of mistake in the future.
Once again, we are deeply sorry for any discomfort this situation may
have caused our customers.
 Randy Komisar
If you would like to discuss this with LucasArts, please send e-mail to
7530...@compuserve.com. Please include your name, e-mail address
and/or
phone number and a brief message. We will get back in touch with you as
soon
as possible.
---------------------------------------
Donald Gladstone
: David Laprad <psc1...@frank.mtsu.edu> writes:
:
: >I saw the line KILLBITCH in user.com. I think that clearly indicates the
: >the game is reading this, can you tell us why that definition is called
: >that? It simply goes to far. Women, whether they are strippers or
: Here's a thought. Has anyone even considered that
: Killbitch might NOT refer to the strippers in the game?
: I remember in my younger days my friends and I
: would think up weird and interesting names for our programs
: and subroutines. In fact, a friend of mine in grad school
: had a subroutine called SHOWTITS. Guess what??
: It was short for SHOW TITLEs! It put atitle and
: axis labels on a graph. Now, unless you KNOW that
: Killbitch is refers to a section of the code dealing with
: the women in the game, shouldn't you stop and think about
: what else it could mean?
In fact, this does not refer to the strippers. In case no one looked at
the sound file that goes with it, it's called "killme.voc". Now, if I'm
not mistaken, that's the sound for the cocooned ladys who want you to
put them out of their misery, a-la Aliens.
Everyone should get their facts straight before they start ranting and
raving some stupid little thing. Does every complain about language in a
movie? It's a lot more blatant that this stupid little thing.
Michael
David Laprad
time to devote to gaming! :) I read a post by another user who had
seen the line, then looked it up and saw it myself. The user.com
file is one that allows users to redefine many paramaters of the
game, so it is meant to be tinkered with. It is not an executable,
it is a modifiable text file.
Anyway, I see your point about other media. But violence against women in
music and movies is just as disturbing. Violence against women that is
solely directed at emphasizing some assumed weakness or subservience is
not healthy. Mind you, I am not promoting censorship; 3D Realms should
be able to put whatever they want in their games. But referring to women
as bitches is unconscionable, and I wont support it with my money.
I rarely find myself in the minority, since I *love* violent games and
movies. But KILLBITCH just doesn't sit right with me.
Dave Glue
wrote:
>This is just a game, so what if there are a few individuals at Apogee/3drealms
>who don't like women very much, ok at all. They just write code and probably
>put in what ever came to their mind at the time. If you start reading into
>all this stuff in todays games you may end up not buying some of the best
>programmers programs. If I could write code like these guys I wouldn't think
>twice about offending a few people. So lets lighten up here, I personally
>didn't like the Satan stuff in Doom, but it sure didn't stop me from enjoying
>the game.
Jesus, I agree some can get too reactionary on this issue, but
complete complacency with whatever the designers put in the game as
long as their "great coders" is just as bizarre. What if 3D Realms
mad a "Gas Chamber" game where you were a Nazi hunting down Jews?
Sure it's offensive, but look how smooth the engine is! :)
Of course you and the rest of the planet would be offended, so the
programmers statements do make a difference. Now if the 3D Realms
staff are women haters, which I don't believe for a second, it _would_
influence my decision on the game. But I don't see that, I see some
pretty obvious satire instead.
David Laprad
: Umm...EXCUSE ME????
: This is just a game people. Not some anti-politcal correctness statement
: made by 3D REALMS. It is JUST A GAME!!! You people seem to love to read
: WAY TOO MUCH into these games. First it was the Satanism in Doom and
: Doom II. Then it was the senseless violence. Now it is the portrayal of
: women in Duke Nukem 3D. These are all just games. They are not intended
: to support the behavior contained within.
Nor is the violence in movies, television and music meant to be
reflected in real life. But is it that clean? There are three dead
token vendors from New York subway stations who would say "no."
I believe that for a person to be influenced to do something horrible they
see in the media (movie, game, etc.) they are already off. What I was
questioning was the purpose behind referring to women as bitches. It is
the mindsetof this statement that bothers me.
: that. A few of you seem to have trouble grasping the difference between
: fact and fiction. For example, a programmer decides to use a descriptive
: name for a function that you don't agree with or offends you. You really
: aren't supposed to be messing around with it in the first place, let
: alone criticizing it.
It is a user configurable file. We are allowed to modify it. And I was
questioning why the programmer felt the need to refer to women as
bitches. If I am wrong and the definition refers to the alien boss, I
will actually be happy to see I made a mistake.
: In case you haven't noticed, the political
: correctness fad (and that is all it was, let's face it.) is waning.
I am with you on this one. Being politically correct stifles free speech
*and* prevents us from seeing the ignorance of bad ideas.
: We've got to understand that you can't please all of the people all of
: the time, regardless of how hard you try. But that is certainly no
: reason to make games watered-down. I mean, how much game-playing
: satisfaction can you get from not being able to relieve some of your
: stress?? Is it better to keep all your stress and frustrations with the
: world pent up inside of you, or is it better to find a release (in
: something such as a computer game or a sport or whatever) that insures
: you won't eventually snap and really do something violent? I think the
: latter is by far the better.
So you are saying you would go out and kill "bitches" if you couldn't do
it in a game? Obviously this is not what you are saying. So your
argument doesn't hold water. If someone needs a game to relieve stress
(i.e. they will beat their wife if they can't kill sprites in a game),
then they need help or they need to mature.
: You may or may not agree, but why waste all
: this bandwidth complaining about games? Focus your efforts on more
: important issues (or at least on boards actually having something to DO
: with your complaint).
This newgroup is the appropriate forum for discussing all aspects
of PC action games.
Christopher Kintz
>> They make the game to sell to the majority, you and those that
>>think in limited terms like you are the minority they are making tons off
>>this... Your opinion means nothing...
>>
>
> Can that last post. It was supposed to be E-Mailed to a bozo that
>sent me a nasty E-Mail, but it got sent to the group by accident. Didn't
>realize it was in here till I saw it this morning. Hate it when that
>happens.
Why is this guys a "bozo"? Hey, myself... I love the game, although I
was a little put off by the "KILLBITCH" myself. But it's only a game,
right? But if this guy wants to vent about what is a valid point,
then who are you to tell him he's a bozo?
Geeze.
And actually his opinion DOES mean something. Especially when that
opinion decides not to send $40 to 3D Realms for the Registered
Version of DN3D.
-Chris
(Although I wish they would hurry up and send me my copy!)
Chris Kintz (cki...@aloha.com) (http://www.aloha.com/~ckintz)
Serve the Computer, Citizen! (http://www.aloha.com/~ckintz/paranoia.html)
"Life is like a sewer: what you get out of it depends on what you put in."
- Tom Lehrer
Ben J
HKM...@prodigy.com "Kevin Yip" writes:
[Boring stuff no-one really gives a toss about deleted...]
> If you would like to discuss this with LucasArts, please send e-mail to
But even if Duke3D contains KILLBITCH somewhere, is anyone actually
personally offended by this? Because if not why is there such a fuss?
--
* . * * * .
* . * . * . . * * * .
. /^\/^\/^\/^ Ben J / sPaCe-mAn on IRC ^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ *
* d . E * n . Y * e . V * e . R * y . T * h . I * n . G * ! . *
* .\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/ b...@jock.demon.co.uk _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/
* . * . * . * * .
. * . * * . .
Seth Messing
more airplay than it really deserved. However, I continue to wonder
why you guys made certain design decisions. Presumably, you believe
incorporating peep shows, chest-flashing go-go girls, etc. will help
sell the product. Kind of sad, somehow, that you're probably right.
The steady, inexorable coarsening of entertainment products (computer
game, movie, TV show), raises the ante for shock or crudity and leads
to lower and lower lowest common denominators. I know I'm sounding
pompous and preachy, ("for God's sake, it's just a game, etc."), but
I do get depressed thinking about what DND will do for an encore, what
some other company will build to surpass DND.
Seth
James Ojaste
Jon Saloga <jsa...@netcom.com> wrote:
(among other things)
>What if that procedure in GAME.CON were KILLNIGGER, or STOMPFAGGOT, or
>ROASTKIKE? would this thread still be out of line?
Ahhh - but the term "bitch" has the common usage of not applying to *all*
women, only those with certain characteristics (ie a harsh personality).
Now since 3D Realms created this game, they must have created all characters
in this game. Who is to say that the characters that they created don't
have harsh personalities, or even that their first name isn't "Bitch"?
*to everybody in this thread*
It's their universe, let them play in it. If you are one of the ones
here who is equating little gyrating groups of pixels to your mother or
other female figure I'm pretty confident in saying that that wasn't their
intent.
James
--
fn info guess {if {~ $guess 'James Ojaste'} {echo Right!} {~ $guess loves es} {
echo Yup!} {~ $guess (http:// mailto:jojaste@)^csclub.uwaterloo.ca^(/~jojaste
'')} {echo Uh-huh!} {~ $guess INTX} {echo Ding!} {echo Bzzzt!}}
Heath Alexander
James Ojaste <joj...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>In article <jsalogaD...@netcom.com>,
>Jon Saloga <jsa...@netcom.com> wrote:
>(among other things)
>>What if that procedure in GAME.CON were KILLNIGGER, or STOMPFAGGOT, or
>>ROASTKIKE? would this thread still be out of line?
>
>Ahhh - but the term "bitch" has the common usage of not applying to *all*
>women, only those with certain characteristics (ie a harsh personality).
And to some, the term is just plain offensive. As a matter of fact, if it
is just a general term to describe some women, why don't you just try
calling a few women you know bitches and see what the reaction is. After
you've been slapped and chewed out a couple of times, come back and let us
know what the results are.
>
>Now since 3D Realms created this game, they must have created all characters
>in this game. Who is to say that the characters that they created don't
>have harsh personalities, or even that their first name isn't "Bitch"?
>
>*to everybody in this thread*
>It's their universe, let them play in it. If you are one of the ones
>here who is equating little gyrating groups of pixels to your mother or
>other female figure I'm pretty confident in saying that that wasn't their
>intent.
It may be "their" universe, but they are trying to sell it to "me" as a product.
Whatever their intent is doesn't matter if their intended consumers find the
product sub-standard or offensive. I'm sure Ford didn't intend to make the
Pinto a potential explosion on wheels or even that it really was, but that's
how the consumers viewed it.
To 3D Realms, I enjoy your products. I think Terminal Velocity is an
excellent game. You've proven that you are able to make good and marketable
products WITHOUT offending ANYONE. Do you really think that all the bad
publicity that you are getting are commiserate with the perceived increase
in sales from lonely guys out to get their computer jollies? Trust me, the
are many more disks on the market that do that a hell of a lot better than
DN3D. When I want tintillation, I'll buy tintillation. Concentrate on the
real market, people looking for good PC action games. DN3D is a
good game, but I won't be buying it simply on the grounds that I find the
strippers a useless and exploitive addition to an otherwise great game. Let
the vote be cast with dollars!
Heath
Dave Glue
Messing) wrote:
>Thanks for your response - this issue has probably gotten a little bit
>more airplay than it really deserved. However, I continue to wonder
>why you guys made certain design decisions. Presumably, you believe
>incorporating peep shows, chest-flashing go-go girls, etc. will help
>sell the product. Kind of sad, somehow, that you're probably right.
It's in LA. The "Red Light" district is one level, it's a part of LA
that exists. It's tongue-in cheek humour. Perhaps they have an
immature sense of humour, but that's all it is. I really doubt they
are going for _sexuality_ here.
>The steady, inexorable coarsening of entertainment products (computer
>game, movie, TV show), raises the ante for shock or crudity and leads
>to lower and lower lowest common denominators. I know I'm sounding
>pompous and preachy, ("for God's sake, it's just a game, etc."), but
>I do get depressed thinking about what DND will do for an encore, what
>some other company will build to surpass DND.
There are far bigger problems in the world to get depressed about, and
there are far more graphic and exploitive material available on PC's
that Duke's tame examples.
Roy R. Rim
>Thanks for your response - this issue has probably gotten a little bit
>more airplay than it really deserved. However, I continue to wonder
>why you guys made certain design decisions. Presumably, you believe
>incorporating peep shows, chest-flashing go-go girls, etc. will help
>sell the product. Kind of sad, somehow, that you're probably right.
>game, movie, TV show), raises the ante for shock or crudity and leads
>to lower and lower lowest common denominators. I know I'm sounding
>pompous and preachy, ("for God's sake, it's just a game, etc."), but
>I do get depressed thinking about what DND will do for an encore, what
>some other company will build to surpass DND.
You know, I just got to put my two yen in.
Where does this take place? What kind of setting is it?
>>Don't read too much into this. All the Duke developer's are normal guys
>>like everyone else. Trust me. Nobody hates women :) In any case, i
>>had this renamed as it was just a code thing.
And thats exactly it. I look into my dark unhealthy heart and find it
rather excited that I can pretend to give a 100 dollar bill to some
pixelized stripper in a bar while destroying ugly creatures who threaten my
life. I'm not even being sarcastic. DN3D has elements of realistic violence,
such as the blood dripping down the wall. The way the women are "used" by the
aliens or mutants or whatever in the game could be even taken as a metaphor
for the real monsters in OUR world that do treat women as such. Those ugly
bastards! Now this is a little far-fetched and I am pulling this stuff
basically out of my rear end, but mayber, just maybe, its not. Even if thats
not how it was meant to be.
I'll shut up now.
RR.
Kevin Yip
Duke Nukem 3D changes the "KILLBITCH" reference in User.con to
"KILLME."
I guess we can all go home now and sleep well.
--
-Kevin
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has
its limits."
Steve Wineberg
writes:
:>
:>
:>And to some, the term is just plain offensive. As a matter of fact, if it
:>is just a general term to describe some women, why don't you just try
:>calling a few women you know bitches and see what the reaction is. After
:>you've been slapped and chewed out a couple of times, come back and let us
:>know what the results are.
You really need to see about getting some less anal friends... I did
*exactly* what you said, and the results were all jovial. (Unless I was
supposed to fein shock and offense to replies such as, "I'll show you bitch,
dick!"
In short, let it go. Switch to decaf.
KevYip
>In article <4g5pec$1n...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
> HKM...@prodigy.com "Kevin Yip" writes:
>
>[Boring stuff no-one really gives a toss about deleted...]
>
>> If you would like to discuss this with LucasArts, please send e-mail to
>
>But even if Duke3D contains KILLBITCH somewhere, is anyone actually
>personally offended by this? Because if not why is there such a fuss?
>--
Hello? Anybody home? After reading through this lengthy thread with many
people voicing their resentment and you are asking if anyone was offended?
Patrick Deupree
: the folks who find this to be a major turn-off to the game. I was
: really enjoying it until I realized that besides Duke, the only other
: humans in the game were gratuitous "bitches".
: 3D Realms is losing sales over this....
Personally, I think a lot of people are going over the top on this. I
agree that using "KILLBITCH" in there was probably an error in judgement
for whoever put it in there and let it through. More than likely it was
put in as a joke and unfortunatly you can't tell a joke these days
without someone taking offense at it.
As for the lack of wholesome female characters in this game, well, take a
look at the premise of the game. Duke is a vain, macho commando type.
Every time you look in a mirror he says "Damn, I look good." Also look
at the fact that you can't exactly convey much "plot" in the game. Any
beings put in the game are there to be shot. Heck, you shoot a monk in
the rafters that is hanging from a noose to get health. I don't seen any
of these politically correct people condeming that.
The plain and simple truth is, that it's a game. Duke is a macho sumbag
who is most easily going to be lulled into a false sense of security by a
woman. So, the aliens dress themselves up as strippers to lure him in.
I will also point out that the strippers are aliens, so you don't
actually kill strippers.
As for the women that are trapped, well, perhaps they could have put a
couple of guys in there that are trapped also. However, they didn't. If
the fact that the only trapped people are women makes you not buy the
game, that's fine.
Heath Alexander
my female friends all day, and have it be cool. But if I were to get angry
or very serious and call them a bitch, well that would be another story all
together. And I've got some "anal" friends, including my fiance', who would
just be plain hurt if I were to call them a bitch, even jokingly. Why do
you think it's ok when African Americans joke around and call each other
niggers and suddenly it's a different story if it's someone they don't know
or the person isn't joking around. Add to that the large number of blacks
who would be just plain offended if ANYONE called them that, just as there
are a large number of women who would just be offended if ANYONE called them
a bitch. Instead of joking around with your friends, why don't you start
calling your mother or grandmother a bitch on a regular basis, after all
they're just being anal if they're offended. How about your boss at work,
I'm sure that would go over real well.
The point is that given certain contexts some people might not take offense,
but that doesn't mean it's not an offensive term, and especially when it is
used to describe the death cries of innocent women you just killed, I don't
think the programmers had their priorities straight and I won't be buying
their product. This is a public warning to 3-D Realms that they are losing
a potential customer because of their decision on content. I'm not advocating
a ban, I'm just saying, if you don't like it, don't buy it, and I'm giving
3-D Realms the courtesy of knowing why. So, in short, I'm not going to let it
go and I'm not going to buy the product.
Heath
Craig Edrington
>>But even if Duke3D contains KILLBITCH somewhere, is anyone actually
>>personally offended by this? Because if not why is there such a fuss?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Hello? Anybody home? After reading through this lengthy thread with many
>people voicing their resentment and you are asking if anyone was offended?
Actually, I think he was saying that if it was not offensive, then
explain the people who are saying that they were offended. I did not
interpret his statement as one of wondering if anyone were really
offended. He seems to be well aware of it.
later:)
Craig
ra...@netcom.com
: If anyone thinks nobody would care about the offensive code in Duke 3D,
: apology on CompuServe precisely because of this kind of thing:
The difference between this and the DF thing was that the Duke phrase is
in a TEXT file, easily read by consumers (and actually meant to be read
and modified for fun). The DF "bad word" was in an executable, i.e. it was
only found by someone with a hex editor who was probably looking for cheat
codes or something. It was simply a "dead string" that would never appear
while running the executable. 99.999% of the people buying a game wouldn't
have the know-how or desire to scan an executable. Unfortunately the
apology post makes it sound way worse than it actually was....
: A message from Randy Komisar, President of LucasArts Entertainment
: Company, regarding offensive computer code in Dark Forces
: We at LucasArts apologize for lines of computer code contained in Dark
: Forces. In an act of inappropriate humor, a young programmer included an
: offensive phrase in the management code during the development process.
: This type of code is a debugging aid, not part of the actual game. He
: inadvertently failed to remove the computer code when development was
: completed.
:
: LucasArts and George Lucas do not in anyway condone the use of such
: offensive terms, even in situations such as this where the language is
: not intended to be viewed by players. We would like to reiterate that
: the phrase
: exists only in the code and does not appear anywhere during game play,
: nor does it relate in any way to the game's subject matter or the
: company's operations.
:
: The offensive language has been removed from all future builds of the
: product. LucasArts will provide a new version to anyone who wishes to
: return his or her current copy. We have taken action internally to
: prevent this kind of mistake in the future.
: Once again, we are deeply sorry for any discomfort this situation may
: have caused our customers.
: Â Randy Komisar
: If you would like to discuss this with LucasArts, please send e-mail to
: 7530...@compuserve.com. Please include your name, e-mail address
James Ojaste
Heath Alexander <wo...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>In article <4gabts$1...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,
>James Ojaste <joj...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>>Ahhh - but the term "bitch" has the common usage of not applying to *all*
>>women, only those with certain characteristics (ie a harsh personality).
>
>is just a general term to describe some women, why don't you just try
>calling a few women you know bitches and see what the reaction is. After
>you've been slapped and chewed out a couple of times, come back and let us
>know what the results are.
Ah, but it *is* an offensive term - the previous poster was equating it to
globally offensive terms, whereas this term is targetted. I wouldn't
appreciate someone calling me a bastard (I'm not), and that's partially
because it's targetted. Calling me a Canadian wouldn't offend me (no
matter the tone of voice used), since it describes a population, not an
individual.
>>*to everybody in this thread*
>>It's their universe, let them play in it. If you are one of the ones
>>here who is equating little gyrating groups of pixels to your mother or
>>other female figure I'm pretty confident in saying that that wasn't their
>>intent.
>
>It may be "their" universe, but they are trying to sell it to "me" as a product.
>Whatever their intent is doesn't matter if their intended consumers find the
>product sub-standard or offensive. I'm sure Ford didn't intend to make the
>Pinto a potential explosion on wheels or even that it really was, but that's
>how the consumers viewed it.
So just don't buy it. Don't scream at 3DRealms. Not that it matters now
that they've removed it.
>To 3D Realms, I enjoy your products. I think Terminal Velocity is an
>excellent game. You've proven that you are able to make good and marketable
>products WITHOUT offending ANYONE. Do you really think that all the bad
Yeah, right. I'm sure that I could scare up a few people offended by
a game wherein the only objective is too blow things up.
>publicity that you are getting are commiserate with the perceived increase
>in sales from lonely guys out to get their computer jollies? Trust me, the
>are many more disks on the market that do that a hell of a lot better than
>DN3D. When I want tintillation, I'll buy tintillation. Concentrate on the
I seriously *don't* think that calling a collection of pixels a "bitch" is
titillating to most people, and I don't think that they put strippers in
the game to break into the X-rated CD market. However, it *is* an amusing
touch of humour, as most of the people in this newsgroup seem to agree.
>real market, people looking for good PC action games. DN3D is a
>good game, but I won't be buying it simply on the grounds that I find the
>strippers a useless and exploitive addition to an otherwise great game. Let
>the vote be cast with dollars!
James
S. Patrick Gallaty
>
> In article <4hocgt$a...@feenix.metronet.com>, geo...@metronet.com (George
> Broussard) wrote:[]
> > I had the "KILLBITCH" reference removed immediately when I found it
> > and it's no longer in v1.1. Just some programmer's working late and
> > thinking it was funny. Judge the game on it's gameplay and not
> > someone's attempt at humor :)
> >
> > George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
> >
>
> have to graduate from high school to run a software company?
Oh look. How classic.
A grammar cop.
Nice sentence structure there, grammar cop.
Put it back in your pants. Grammar flames are a) bad manners, b) pointless
and c) hypocritical.
He made one grammatical error, and you in your stupid flame made one grammatical error.
To me that makes you look foolish and rude. I have dispatched my trained hell-hounds
to your doorstep to tear out your testicles to prevent the danger of reproduction.
George Henry C. Daswani
: In article <4hocgt$a...@feenix.metronet.com>, geo...@metronet.com (George
: Broussard) wrote:
: > Heath,
: >
: >
: > I had the "KILLBITCH" reference removed immediately when I found it
: > and it's no longer in v1.1. Just some programmer's working late and
: > thinking it was funny. Judge the game on it's gameplay and not
: > someone's attempt at humor :)
: >
: > George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
: >
:
: Okay, George, I won't judge the game by your poor grammar, either! Sheesh. Do you
: have to graduate from high school to run a software company?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This asshole above is one main reason why Software Company - Consumer
relationships are falling apart.
He doesn't get the idea that George Broussard actually spent the time
to reply to the message. Other software manufacturers doesn't even bother.
Moron - GET out of USENET (You sure you are not using AOL?).
George Daswani.
George Broussard
Heath,
> This is a public warning to 3-D Realms that they are losing
>a potential customer because of their decision on content. I'm not advocating
>a ban, I'm just saying, if you don't like it, don't buy it, and I'm giving
>3-D Realms the courtesy of knowing why. So, in short, I'm not going to let it
>go and I'm not going to buy the product.
I had the "KILLBITCH" reference removed immediately when I found it
Jeff Atwood
Okay, George, I won't judge the game by your poor grammar, either! Sheesh. Do you
Jeff Atwood
wrote:
> On 8 Mar 1996 05:33:52 GMT, JAt...@a.crl.com (Jeff Atwood) wrote:
>
> >> I had the "KILLBITCH" reference removed immediately when I found it
> >> and it's no longer in v1.1. Just some programmer's working late and
> >> thinking it was funny. Judge the game on it's gameplay and not
> >> someone's attempt at humor :)
> >>
> >> George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
> >>
> >
> >Okay, George, I won't judge the game by your poor grammar, either! Sheesh. Do
> you
> >have to graduate from high school to run a software company?
>
> their product and promptly replying, but using "it's" instead of
> "its". DAMN YOU GEORGE, DAMN YOU STRAIGHT TO HELL!!
>
> Cripes kid, this is what you chose to reply to? Aren't there bigger
> problems on these newsgroups?
>
>
Yeah, the problem is that George posts like an illiterate! Granted, it's not
world peace or anything, but it's still depressing. I've never seen Romero post
such backwards-ass grammar anywhere.
Besides, I'm tired of takin' your guff, Dave. You need to get out of the house
more. You pass yourself off as an expert "programmer" with your 486-120. I'll let
you in on a little secret-- real programmers/consultants make enough money to
afford high-end machines, where they're more productive. Any "programmer" with a
sub-par machine is either A. incompetent, meaning nobody will pay them or B.
clueless, meaning they don't realize that time is money.
Jeff
Jeff Atwood
> JAt...@a.crl.com (Jeff Atwood) wrote:
>
> >In article <4hocgt$a...@feenix.metronet.com>, geo...@metronet.com (George
> >Broussard) wrote:
> >> wo...@bnr.ca (Heath Alexander) wrote:
> >> Heath,
> >>
> >> > This is a public warning to 3-D Realms that they are losing
> >> >a potential customer because of their decision on content. I'm not
> >> advocating
> >> >a ban, I'm just saying, if you don't like it, don't buy it, and I'm giving
>
> >> >3-D Realms the courtesy of knowing why. So, in short, I'm not going to
> let
> >> it
> >> >go and I'm not going to buy the product.
> >>
> >> and it's no longer in v1.1. Just some programmer's working late and
> >> thinking it was funny. Judge the game on it's gameplay and not
> >> someone's attempt at humor :)
> >>
> >> George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
> >>
>
> >Okay, George, I won't judge the game by your poor grammar, either! Sheesh. Do
> you
> >have to graduate from high school to run a software company?
>
> However, in this case, he used "it's" properly as a contraction of the
> words "it is", as in "It's quarter to eleven". An improper use would
> have been, "Looks like that alien lost it's guts with that RPG hit."
>
Actually, it's the last sentence-- "Judge the game on it's gameplay"-- that is
incorrect. It doesn't read as "Judge the game on it is gameplay". He is
incorrectly using the possessive "'s" with IT. The only time "'s" can be used
with IT is, as you pointed out, when you are concatenating "is."
It would be correct if it read "Judge the game on its gameplay." But it doesn't.
Jeff Atwood
> Bad grammar surfaces in every newsgroup on a regular basis, and it strikes
> me as silly to nail someone over one instance.
Very true. However, bad grammar from the president of a prominent software company
doesn't happen every day!
Jeff Atwood
(Commander Spock) wrote:
> In article <4hub4t$g...@nntp.crl.com>, JAt...@a.crl.com (Jeff Atwood) wrote:
>
> >
> >I'm grateful, all right. I'm just trying to keep George from making himself
> > look
> >like a dork in the future. Hopefully he can work on this grammar thing so
> other
> >people don't have to laugh at his writing.
> >
>
> You'd better start with yourself, Jeff. Nobody gives a shit if George is a
> chimpanzee, as long as his company produces great games. I suggest
> volunteering at a local pre-school so you can correct the grammar of little
> kids, and make yourself feel special.
>
Well, I'm guessing that George would care if he were a chimpanzee. I'm guessing
he would also care about making himself look like an illiterate in full view of
thousands of internet users. But hey, I could be wrong!
Tim L.
: >In article <4hocgt$a...@feenix.metronet.com>, geo...@metronet.com (George
: >Broussard) wrote:
: >> wo...@bnr.ca (Heath Alexander) wrote:
: >> Heath,
: >>
: >> > This is a public warning to 3-D Realms that they are losing
: >> >a potential customer because of their decision on content. I'm not
: >> advocating
: >> >a ban, I'm just saying, if you don't like it, don't buy it, and I'm giving
: >> >3-D Realms the courtesy of knowing why. So, in short, I'm not going to let
: >> it
: >> >go and I'm not going to buy the product.
: >>
: >> I had the "KILLBITCH" reference removed immediately when I found it
: >> and it's no longer in v1.1. Just some programmer's working late and
: >> thinking it was funny. Judge the game on it's gameplay and not
: >> someone's attempt at humor :)
: >>
: >> George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
: >>
: >Okay, George, I won't judge the game by your poor grammar, either! Sheesh. Do you
: >have to graduate from high school to run a software company?
: I agree with you in one sense; the misuse of "it's" is widespread.
: However, in this case, he used "it's" properly as a contraction of the
: words "it is", as in "It's quarter to eleven". An improper use would
: have been, "Looks like that alien lost it's guts with that RPG hit."
: eL WeiRDorado
Just curious, do either of you two brainiaks know if anal retentive has a
hyphen??
-Tim
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
t...@eskimo.com |"I'm not strange, everyone else is
http://www.eskimo.com/~twl | just a little bit too normal"
Harpoon/Wargames Homepage | -Me
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Herauf
>> is
>> >incorrect. It doesn't read as "Judge the game on it is gameplay". He is
>> >incorrectly using the possessive "'s" with IT. The only time "'s" can be used
>> >with IT is, as you pointed out, when you are concatenating "is."
Point for point, you are wrong too. "It's" can also be derived from "it has". Get it
right or stop correcting people.
n...@mfltd.co.uk
>In article <4hocgt$a...@feenix.metronet.com>, geo...@metronet.com (George
>Broussard) wrote:
>> wo...@bnr.ca (Heath Alexander) wrote:
>> Heath,
>>
>> > This is a public warning to 3-D Realms that they are losing
>> >a potential customer because of their decision on content. I'm not
>> advocating
>> >a ban, I'm just saying, if you don't like it, don't buy it, and I'm giving
>> >3-D Realms the courtesy of knowing why. So, in short, I'm not going to let
>> it
>> >go and I'm not going to buy the product.
>>
>> I had the "KILLBITCH" reference removed immediately when I found it
>> and it's no longer in v1.1. Just some programmer's working late and
>> thinking it was funny. Judge the game on it's gameplay and not
>> someone's attempt at humor :)
>>
>> George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
>>
>Okay, George, I won't judge the game by your poor grammar, either! Sheesh. Do you
>have to graduate from high school to run a software company?
Sorry to seem ignorant here, but whats the 'Killbitch' reference in
Duke3d? Is it that offensive (ie more so than the language, violence,
girlies etc)?
Patrick Deupree
: Broussard) wrote:
: > thinking it was funny. Judge the game on it's gameplay and not
: > someone's attempt at humor :)
: Okay, George, I won't judge the game by your poor grammar, either! Sheesh. Do you
: have to graduate from high school to run a software company?
Y'know, it's bad enough that this thread still exists. Foolishly I'd
though it had died out. Now, unfortunately, we get this guy who wants to
drag the WHOLLLLLLLE thing out again, but instead of the previous
"3DRealms is composed of sexist pigs" theme, we get someone why has to
crack down on typing.
Chainsaw
>Well, I'm guessing that George would care if he were a chimpanzee. I'm guessing
>he would also care about making himself look like an illiterate in full view of
>thousands of internet users. But hey, I could be wrong!
If you truly were concerned about George's welfare you would have
emailed him. Instead you needed to slam him on the net to make yourself
feel superior.
Did it work, Jackboot? Or did you come off as an arrogant little puppy
"in full view of those thousands of internet users"?