Nice one Electronic Arts!
Harvester
<ma...@headspin.clara.net> wrote:
>At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
>PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
>encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
>
>All I can say is: what took so long?! The size of PC boxes is
>ridiculous. The first thing I do upon buying any new game is to remove
>the jewel case and instruction manual and throw the box into the
>darkest recesses of a cupboard, never to see the light of day again.
well, I always throw away my boxes and jewelcases too (I use those
caselogic things for all my audio and computer CDs)...but I'm
concerned about the quality of manuals with dvd packaging
how are they going to handle manuals for flight-sims and strategy
games? they're usually very large and I don't want any skimpy manuals
as a result of this
AndrewSBub
Nevermind.
--
~Andrew S. Bub
Mark Stevens
At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
All I can say is: what took so long?! The size of PC boxes is
ridiculous. The first thing I do upon buying any new game is to remove
the jewel case and instruction manual and throw the box into the
darkest recesses of a cupboard, never to see the light of day again.
THANK YOU Electronic Arts. This is what consumers and retailers have
been crying out for. We've long since passed the age when people
actually assumed that the quality of a game was directly proportional
to the size of the box it came in. (In the UK they've just re-released
Quake + Scourge of Armagon + Erm, That Other One for 4.99 -- but look
at the size of the box! Buy two copies of the game and you can build a
friggin' tent out of them.)
--
Mark Stevens
Nos
>Hello.
>
>At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
>PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
>encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
That also means we can kiss our nice thick flight-sim manuals away
too. Canh't fit a very big manual in a DVD box!
--
Nos
Nos
spoke:
>how are they going to handle manuals for flight-sims and strategy
>games? they're usually very large and I don't want any skimpy manuals
>as a result of this
>
Exactly. Most publishers don't want to do serious flight-sims anymore
anyway and this just confirms that they intend on trying to force
pablum upon us PC gamers.
--
Nos
Nos
thus spoke:
>Goodbye decent manuals... oh wait, we're talking about EA right?
>Nevermind.
Well, their Jane's department put out some of the best mauls ever done
in PC gaming history.
--
Nos
Joel Mathis
titles that don't require much in the way of documentation and I
seriously hope that more game developers at least considder the idea.
On the other hand, for some games I wanted detailed documentation.
Maybe if it was the smallest of three standard packaging sizes.
Joel Mathis
See the Hot Sheet at Gone Gold for my take on the day's news
http://www.gonegold.com/hot
Johan List
>
> On Sat, 13 May 2000 01:52:27 +0100, Mark Stevens
> <ma...@headspin.clara.net> wrote:
>
> >At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
> >PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
> >encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
> >
> >ridiculous. The first thing I do upon buying any new game is to remove
> >the jewel case and instruction manual and throw the box into the
> >darkest recesses of a cupboard, never to see the light of day again.
>
> caselogic things for all my audio and computer CDs)...but I'm
> concerned about the quality of manuals with dvd packaging
>
> games? they're usually very large and I don't want any skimpy manuals
> as a result of this
Lemme see...many games have electronic manuals on the game CD(s)
already, so they're probably going to continue with this. And...they're
probably going to setup a hotline so you can order a paper manual. At a
nice extra cost of course.
The prices of the game stay the same, so it's a nice raise in price per
game. For them.
I think it's an awful idea. Nothing beats opening the package of a newly
bought game and just look at the box and the (often better than reality)
backpackage screenshots before you install it (and then quite possibly
discovers that the game sucks but that's another discussion alltogether
:).
Otherwise: prepare to buy that laserprinter for printing out pages of
docs.
Sigh. I can remember the days when I curled up in a good chair with a
Microprose game manual, just for all the background information.
Cheers,
Johan
chainbreaker
> Sigh. I can remember the days when I curled up in a good chair with a
> Microprose game manual, just for all the background information.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Johan
Looks like I'm going to have to break down and buy a cheap laptop just so I
can take that .pdf documentation with me to the crapper, and to that good
chair, etc., etc. Somehow though, I just don't think it'll be quite the
same . . .
Jerry Morelock
Shawn Swift
>On Sat, 13 May 2000 01:52:27 +0100, Mark Stevens
>
>>Hello.
>>
>>At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
>>PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
>>encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
>
>too. Canh't fit a very big manual in a DVD box!
What a loss. A big flight sim manual. Boo hoo! :)
You'd rather have a big flight sim manual than a game industry which
can put out eight times as many games every year because they can all
stay in the store longer?
Look at book stores and music stores. Now look at computer game
stores... Now imagine the huge selection you'll have once everyone
moves to DVD cases for their games instead of huge boxes which take up
too much space? You could fix like four games just in the horizontal
space of one box. Now make the shelves shorter, and you can fit like
eight to ten games for every one huge unweildly box now.
I mean look at the Playstation section compared to the PC section. Do
you ever see a Planet X or EB or Best Buy which doesn't have
practically every game ever made for the current hot consoles in
stock?
I could like go down to Planet X right now, and get a copy of some old
obscure game like "Swagman" if I wanted to. Would have a hell of a
time finding a copy of Heart of Darkness though, and that was only
released a year or so ago. "Swagman" was released like four years go.
Shawn Swift
>Talk about a mixed blessing. This is great for action games and those
>titles that don't require much in the way of documentation and I
>seriously hope that more game developers at least considder the idea.
>On the other hand, for some games I wanted detailed documentation.
>Maybe if it was the smallest of three standard packaging sizes.
I'm sure if a game needs a big manual they will still package it with
the game in a larger package. Or, they will put the manual within the
game as pop-up help. Would that be so bad? It's not like you have to
make split second decisions in a flight sim. :)
Shawn Swift
I'm sorry, did I miss somehting? I thought this was
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.ACTION, not FLIGHTSIM. :)
What's with all these flightsim people here?
(Fires BFG) <Spler-crunch!>
Eew, I got flight sim player all over me... yuk!
chainbreaker
"Shawn Swift" <ssw...@NOearthinkSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:39258224....@news.earthlink.net...
Ohhh Shaaawwnnnn---just how, exactly, have you come to be able to recognize
the dastardly flight-simmer---hmmmm? :-)
Jerry Morelock
Mark Stevens
>That also means we can kiss our nice thick flight-sim manuals away
>too. Canh't fit a very big manual in a DVD box!
Okay, the last flight sim I bought was F22 ADF. Yeah, I know it's a
few years old, but I used to be a bigger flight sim nut back in the
8-bit and 16-bit days. Not so much now.
Anyway -- I guess this argument depends on whether or not you like the
physicality of a large manual, or if you just prefer to have the
detailed information at hand. If it's the latter, then there are
numerous solutions.
One thing that can easily replace large manuals is well-implemented
training missions and tutorials. Take Freespace for example. It's
possible to install it, start playing and work your way up to a highly
competent skill level without once having to read the manual. All
those tutorial missions saved Volition from having to write a 100 page
manual.
Take a look at your average flight sim manual. The sections that deal
with the actual specifics of the interface are usually quite small.
The biggest sections are those that deal with flying the actual plane
-- telling you how to take-off, land, attack ground targets, evade
enemies/weapons/radar, dogfight, refuel, recover from a stall. Just
browsing at my F22 ADF manual, about 100 of its 170 pages deal with
these things -- something that well designed tutorial missions can
easily do.
So, we're down to a 70 page manual. Looking at the rest of it, there's
about 20 pages worth of info about game objects -- aerial views of
airfields, "recognition" shots of all the 3D models, etc. Then there's
about 15 pages worth of glossary, keyboards layouts, etc. That leaves
us with a 35 page manual covering the other stuff, which can easily
fit inside a DVD case.
Let's not forget that in about 2 years time, the vast majority of PC
new release games will all be on DVD anyway -- you've got all that
storage medium to create some really cool interactive manuals. And by
this, I don't mean a couple of shite PDF files. Proper multimedia
experiences. Who wants 20 pages in a manual full of 2D drawings of air
maneuvers when you can have documentaries that show them actually
being flown in full FMV and then tutorial missions that let you try
them out?
Harvester
<ma...@headspin.clara.net> wrote:
>Let's not forget that in about 2 years time, the vast majority of PC
>new release games will all be on DVD anyway -- you've got all that
>storage medium to create some really cool interactive manuals. And by
>this, I don't mean a couple of shite PDF files. Proper multimedia
>experiences. Who wants 20 pages in a manual full of 2D drawings of air
>maneuvers when you can have documentaries that show them actually
>being flown in full FMV and then tutorial missions that let you try
>them out?
well for tutorials, yes I don't mind those being within the game
itself as you illustrate
however, I still like my reference information to be printed
Nos
Swift) thus spoke:
>I'm sure if a game needs a big manual they will still package it with
>the game in a larger package. Or, they will put the manual within the
>game as pop-up help. Would that be so bad? It's not like you have to
>make split second decisions in a flight sim. :)
>
No, it would not be acceptable. Yes, you do have to make split second
decisions in flight-sims. But, I fail to see the point of that comment
anyway. A modern day jet sim is progbably the most complex type of
game you will buy. You need to reference the manual while learning all
the variuous systems, you can't do that while playing the game with an
online manual unless it alows you to task switch, which many don't.
--
Nos
Nos
Swift) thus spoke:
>What a loss. A big flight sim manual. Boo hoo! :)
You're obviously a pure arcade dweeb. Grow a brain. :-)
>You'd rather have a big flight sim manual than a game industry which
>can put out eight times as many games every year because they can all
>stay in the store longer?
>
>Look at book stores and music stores. Now look at computer game
>stores... Now imagine the huge selection you'll have once everyone
>moves to DVD cases for their games instead of huge boxes which take up
>too much space? You could fix like four games just in the horizontal
>space of one box. Now make the shelves shorter, and you can fit like
>eight to ten games for every one huge unweildly box now.
>
>I mean look at the Playstation section compared to the PC section. Do
>you ever see a Planet X or EB or Best Buy which doesn't have
>practically every game ever made for the current hot consoles in
>stock?
All I see is lots of mass produced games of inferior quality. Sure
saving space is great, but if it comes at the cost of no manual then I
won't be buying them. I'm a dieing breed and the dweeb generation is
taking over. :-)
--
Nos
Nos
>Let's not forget that in about 2 years time, the vast majority of PC
>new release games will all be on DVD anyway -- you've got all that
>storage medium to create some really cool interactive manuals. And by
>this, I don't mean a couple of shite PDF files. Proper multimedia
>experiences. Who wants 20 pages in a manual full of 2D drawings of air
>maneuvers when you can have documentaries that show them actually
>being flown in full FMV and then tutorial missions that let you try
>them out?
But, will the developers do that? Great idea though.
--
Nos
FS
<chainb...@email.msn.com> wrote:
><snip>
>> Sigh. I can remember the days when I curled up in a good chair with a
>> Microprose game manual, just for all the background information.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Johan
>
>Looks like I'm going to have to break down and buy a cheap laptop just so I
>can take that .pdf documentation with me to the crapper, and to that good
>chair, etc., etc. Somehow though, I just don't think it'll be quite the
>same . . .
>
>Jerry Morelock
>
Now there's an image I really didn't want in my head at this moment...
<g>
Michael Veldman
to only be available in PDF format. A horrible trend that has
been spreading.
I have seen an increase in business software $500 & up (aus dollar)
arriving in a big box but nothing inside except for a CD in a cardboard
sleeve.
Michael
Nos <N...@NOMAIL.net> wrote in message
news:391cdb6a...@news1.sympatico.ca...
Brett Todd
but is this accurate? I found the story that I read about this at CGO the
other to be a little confusing, though I understood it to say that all of
EA's DVD games for the PC would ship in DVD boxes starting this fall, and
that the company would be getting more proactive in releasing DVD titles.
Didn't seem like this decision would affect all the company's PC titles.
Can't find the news release now, though, thanks to CGO's fantastic website
design. Can anyone point me to a news link on this, either at CGO or
someplace else?
Brett
"Mark Stevens" <ma...@headspin.clara.net> wrote in message
news:d89phsshp2kl7gvgd...@4ax.com...
> Hello.
>
> At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
> PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
> encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
>
> All I can say is: what took so long?! The size of PC boxes is
> ridiculous. The first thing I do upon buying any new game is to remove
> the jewel case and instruction manual and throw the box into the
> darkest recesses of a cupboard, never to see the light of day again.
>
> THANK YOU Electronic Arts. This is what consumers and retailers have
> been crying out for. We've long since passed the age when people
> actually assumed that the quality of a game was directly proportional
> to the size of the box it came in. (In the UK they've just re-released
> Quake + Scourge of Armagon + Erm, That Other One for 4.99 -- but look
> at the size of the box! Buy two copies of the game and you can build a
> friggin' tent out of them.)
>
>
Mark Stevens
wrote:
>I agree that this is a good idea, as the boxes are currently far too large,
>but is this accurate? I found the story that I read about this at CGO the
>other to be a little confusing, though I understood it to say that all of
>EA's DVD games for the PC would ship in DVD boxes starting this fall, and
>that the company would be getting more proactive in releasing DVD titles.
I'm just going by a news article and an interview with an EA head
honcho in the latest MCV (UK edition). There was no specific mention
made that this DVD styling would be restricted to DVD-ROM releases.
Given that they're planning on doing this from October 1st suggests it
will be CD-ROM titles in DVD cases, seeing as DVD-ROM drive market
penetration will still be *very* small even then. The article also
showed mock-up DVD cases for The Sims and F1-2000.
Mark Stevens
wrote:
>however, I still like my reference information to be printed
Of course, there's no reason why they couldn't introduce a new
"chunky" style DVD case for large manuals. Or perhaps just some
special packaging, a la Alien Legacy DVD box-set.
The T Stands for Smooth
can't remember the last one.
"AndrewSBub" <ASD...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:391cce30$0$73...@news.execpc.com...
> Goodbye decent manuals... oh wait, we're talking about EA right?
> Nevermind.
>
> --
> ~Andrew S. Bub
>
>
>
Weaver
>I'm a dieing breed and the dweeb generation is taking over. :-)
I always thought that you were a ladies hairdresser...
Dan Helmick
store jewel cases. But has anyone tried to keep a collection of DVD cases?
Unless you've got literal *shelves* set up for them, they take up a hell of a
lot of space and slide and drop all over the place...
Dan
--
Mark Stevens
Erm, buy some DVD racks then!
Harvester
<ma...@headspin.clara.net> wrote:
>>however, I still like my reference information to be printed
>
>Of course, there's no reason why they couldn't introduce a new
>"chunky" style DVD case for large manuals. Or perhaps just some
>special packaging, a la Alien Legacy DVD box-set.
yeah, that would be cool then
Arnulf Guenther
<ma...@headspin.clara.net> wrote:
>Hello.
>
>At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
>PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
>encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
>
NO!
I hate these DVD `keep cases'! I hate them!
They're ugly and more than often than not one cannot remove a DVD
without touching the surface! Please! Do not use this packaging!
-Arnulf
Shawn Swift
You DO know you're supposed to grasp the disk by the edges with one
hand and use the other to press the little button in the center in so
it release it, don't you?
And I think the DVD cases look cool. Better than the jewel cases CD's
come in. And you can easily access the manuals. trying to get the
manuals out of the front of jewel cases has caused me to rip them in
the past.
mega
easy to take the DVD out of some of them and there are even a few where
it's damn near impossible.
mega
KaL
standing neatly on a shelf. If it weren't for this I would probably buy
burnt copies of every game I play. I don't not only because I want to
support the developers, but because a burnt copy can never give me that
feeling when I open the box, take out the game for the first time, smell the
smell that comes with new games, read the manual, etc. If I don't have the
box I could care less about buying the game. I'll just ask a friend of mine
for a copy instead. And before you flame me I just want to say that I have
never bought a copied game, and I have not played one in over two years.
I want to support the developers, but they have to do something for me if
they want my support. I want my games in boxes. The boxes could be made
smaller but the DVD case idea is ridiculous. I will never buy a game that is
packaged that way. Never. I'm not saying that all boxes need to be of the
standard size when there is no need for it but I will not buy a game that
doesn't come in a box.
EA games suck, none of their companies has made good games since EA took
over. Bullfrog was great, all their games were original, but most of the
talent has left. Now they publish sequels. Maxis has published The Sims, fun
for a week, and SC3000 which wasn't as fun, or as good as SC2000. I won't
bother mentioning Origin. EA sports are ok, but I never did like sports
games. If EA is the only company that does this it won't be a problem, but
I'm afraid that other companies will follow their lead.
KaL
Mark Stevens <ma...@headspin.clara.net> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:d89phsshp2kl7gvgd...@4ax.com...
> Hello.
>
> At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
> PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
> encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
>
> All I can say is: what took so long?! The size of PC boxes is
> ridiculous. The first thing I do upon buying any new game is to remove
> the jewel case and instruction manual and throw the box into the
> darkest recesses of a cupboard, never to see the light of day again.
>
> THANK YOU Electronic Arts. This is what consumers and retailers have
> been crying out for. We've long since passed the age when people
> actually assumed that the quality of a game was directly proportional
> to the size of the box it came in. (In the UK they've just re-released
> Quake + Scourge of Armagon + Erm, That Other One for 4.99 -- but look
> at the size of the box! Buy two copies of the game and you can build a
> friggin' tent out of them.)
>
>
Dan Helmick
: Erm, buy some DVD racks then!
Are there any racks that will hold the DVD cases flat, and still sit on a
shelf that's less than 8 inches high?
The nearest surface that I have which can hold a standing DVD keepcase is
about ten yards from my computer. Lying flat, one keepcase takes up more
space than two CD jewel cases, to boot. I guess for people who don't buy many
games, that wouldn't matter, but...
Dan
--
Slash
>On Sat, 13 May 2000 15:07:41 -0500, Harvester <unk...@crypt.com>
>wrote:
>
>>however, I still like my reference information to be printed
>
>Of course, there's no reason why they couldn't introduce a new
>"chunky" style DVD case for large manuals. Or perhaps just some
>special packaging, a la Alien Legacy DVD box-set.
Yeah. Or even a double-sized case like the Abyss:SE one. That would
allow at least a moderate sized manual to be wedged into it.
-Slash
"The people on the internet know more about what I am doing than I do.
Like, they will say that I am going to be in this mall on this day and
sure enough I am there."
- Tori Amos, Dew Drop Inn Tour, 17-June-1996
Slash
Swift) scribbled:
>Arnulf Guenther <arn...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>On Sat, 13 May 2000 01:52:27 +0100, Mark Stevens
>><ma...@headspin.clara.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Hello.
>>>
>>>At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
>>>PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
>>>encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
>>>
>>NO!
>>
>>I hate these DVD `keep cases'! I hate them!
>>
>>They're ugly and more than often than not one cannot remove a DVD
>>without touching the surface! Please! Do not use this packaging!
>
>You DO know you're supposed to grasp the disk by the edges with one
>hand and use the other to press the little button in the center in so
>it release it, don't you?
There are many types of DVD cases. On some of them, doing what you
just described isn't quite as easy as it sounds. :)
>And I think the DVD cases look cool. Better than the jewel cases CD's
>come in. And you can easily access the manuals. trying to get the
>manuals out of the front of jewel cases has caused me to rip them in
>the past.
-Slash
AndrewSBub
isn't it?
Single player-wise.
--
~Andrew S. Bub
Shawn Swift
>I hate this idea. I'm a collector more or less, I like seeing all the boxes
>standing neatly on a shelf.
I like those too. But I would rather be able to buy games (good ones)
from three years ago, or buy games a lot cheaper than they are now,
(but that's not likely until gaming becomes as popular as music) than
have those neat boxes on my shelf.
Besides... some of the boxes I cherish most are really thin ones from
my old Commodore games... like the ones for Adventure Construction Set
and Legacy of the Anchients. They're bigger than a DVD case, but
they're a lot thinner than standard PC game boxes.
Led Mirage
CD jewel cases take up a lot of room in any case. If you REALLY buy a
lot of games, you wouldn't keep the jewel case anyhow.
Dan Helmick
: CD jewel cases take up a lot of room in any case. If you REALLY buy a
: lot of games, you wouldn't keep the jewel case anyhow.
Um...so...you're saying the advantage of DVD keepcases over CD jewel cases is
that you can save more space by throwing away the keepcase?
Dan
--
mcs
>N...@NOMAIL.net (Nos) wrote:
>>On Sat, 13 May 2000 01:52:27 +0100, Mark Stevens
>><ma...@headspin.clara.net> thus spoke:
>>
>>>Hello.
>>>
>>>At long last, someone's decided to see sense. From October 1st, all EA
>>>PC games will be released in DVD style packaging. They're actively
>>>encouraging other publishers to take their lead.
>>
>>That also means we can kiss our nice thick flight-sim manuals away
>>too. Canh't fit a very big manual in a DVD box!
>
>What a loss. A big flight sim manual. Boo hoo! :)
Some of us like reading manuals, Shawn. Hard to be believe perhaps but
true.
>You'd rather have a big flight sim manual than a game industry which
>can put out eight times as many games every year because they can all
>stay in the store longer?
>
>Look at book stores and music stores. Now look at computer game
>stores... Now imagine the huge selection you'll have once everyone
>moves to DVD cases for their games instead of huge boxes which take up
>too much space? You could fix like four games just in the horizontal
>space of one box. Now make the shelves shorter, and you can fit like
>eight to ten games for every one huge unweildly box now.
Eight to ten times the crap we normally have to trawl through to find
a decent game. Hurray! ;)
--
[mcs] blagga(AT)crosswinds(DOT)net
Fight Spam: http://spam.abuse.net/spam/