On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 21:39:04 +0100, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-s...@never.spam> wrote:
>>>>>>".... with CRT gaming. When our existing CRT dies,
>there is nothing really available that I'm aware of
>that can provide the same blur-free, input-lag-free experience." <<<<<
>Really ? I've not look into what's around re. LCD Monitors recently.
>I'm surprised & disappointed they still can't display a wide range of >resolutions decently.
>@@@mouse@@@
I've seen some signs there are a few diamonds in the rough. There was
a 120mhz LCD reviewed by Anandtech sometime back that seemed very
promising.
Even in console gaming with TVs, the situation seems to be a mess with
results all over the board. I don't know if you read my thread a
couple of months back regarding the search for a good 32" or 37"
display adequate for Mortal Kombat / Tekken type fighting games on the
360, some of which just aren't available for PC. Well, all I wanted
was a smaller version of the performance I get on my plasma display
(which is fantastic for large screen gaming, BTW), but since I can't
buy plasma that small, I have yet to find an acceptably performing
"smaller" (relative to average HDTV size at least) LCD/LED that meets
my needs. Many years ago they were saying OLED would be dominating
the market by 2009.. heh... that didn't work out so well.
I plan to look into this display Andrew is referring to. However I'm
pessimistic, because the high-energy style of many multiplayer games
probably makes me less tolerant of tradeoffs that might not bother
other players that play mostly SP games. Also, going from an average
LCD to a better LCD might be a pleasant experience, while going from a
compromise-free CRT to even the best of LCDs would feel like a
downgrade with regard to overall gaming performance.
> As part of my ongoing mid-life crisis I just picked up one of the "kosher"
> equivalent of these Korean 27" panels which are being talked about. It's a 320ukp
> DGM IPS 2560x1440 and it is absolutely stunning. I've never been disappointed by
> monitor upgrades, whether that's my first 17" CRT (for more than twice as much
> money!) or three cheap screens for my sim racing machine.
Aaha, the Korean 27" LCD monitors. I almost bought one a few months
back. The only thing stopping me was the hope of seeing a 120Hz display
in the future. For those who don't know, Ebay has quite a few of these
monitors on sale directly from Korean resellers. The monitors use the
same LG panel that the 27" Apple Cinema display and Dell U2711 also
have, only that these panels are A- quality. There could be some defects
(stuck or dead pixels, but not more than five overall, and not more than
one in the center portion of the screen)
Search for Catleap, Shimian and Crossover at Ebay if you want more
information. The prices range from $280 - 450 or so. The lower priced
panels come with almost nothing on the controller board, so you won't
find usb ports or options to resize the image, adjust color temperature
or the gradient and will have to rely on the graphic driver control
panel (this is actually desirable for some, as the lack of features in
the controller mean less processing and less input lag). The cheaper
ones also have flimsy stands, but some of them have VESA mounting
mechanism, where you can buy a $50-60 VESA stand from any online store
as replacement. Some of the sellers charge extra to confirm that you
won't be getting stuck/dead pixels. They all do basic level of checks
before shipping these out of Korea.
In my search, Crossover seemed the best option, as it comes with a
better stand and some basic picture adjustment controls. Catleap however
is the only monitor that can do 100Hz+, but then you need special
controller boards that are overclocked (version 2b if I remember
correctly) and those particular models are more expensive.
Whichever one you get, the picture quality is supposedly awesome. If you
get lucky and get a monitor with no (or almost non-existent) defects, it
can be a great deal.
> Then I realised the brightness control doesn't work on this screen, and it sucks
> 116W at full brightness (which it seems to be stuck on) which will more than double
> my monitor power bill for the year. And on a machine which is on all day when I'm
> at home that will add up. So for the sake of my wallet and my eyes I need to turn
> the brightness down. Which means an RMA and the lottery of another panel with no
> other obvious defects.
I hope you get another panel with no noticeable defects. Good luck.
--
Noman
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 05:31 +0100 (BST), mcp.and...@DELETTHISgmail.com
(Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
>Then I realised the brightness control doesn't work on this screen, and it sucks
>116W at full brightness (which it seems to be stuck on) which will more than double
>my monitor power bill for the year. And on a machine which is on all day when I'm
>at home that will add up. So for the sake of my wallet and my eyes I need to turn
>the brightness down. Which means an RMA and the lottery of another panel with no
>other obvious defects.
Andrew,
This article MAY help with your brightness problem:-
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:38:25 -0600, "rms" <rsquires...@MOOflashMOO.net>
wrote:
>Wow. Sold. I've just been rewatching GITS after I saw a review of the
>recent Bluray release of Solid State Society. Then again, RPS slammed
>it pretty hard. Maybe the patch improved it? Waiting for a Steam
>sale...
john....@frontier.com (John Lewis) wrote:
> Specifically the bottom half of page 3 of the article....
The interesting thing is that my DGM monitor is that monitor (identical stand and
design) except mine has a full range of inputs, the internal electronics needed to
allow normal resolution flexibility, and an OSD. Which is why (plus a 3 year
warranty) it's almost 1.5x as expensive as the cheapest imports. But it's still
less than 2/3rds the price of the Dell I might be tempted to buy if I lose faith in
the DGM.
My solution of messing about with the Nvidia brightness setting works but -- as the
article suggests -- it's papering over the cracks rather than filling the crack,
and I really would like to be able to persuade the screen to draw a bit less power
if I can.
Having decided to keep the panel rather than return it to the supplier, I'll take a
few days to get to know the thing better, then contact DGM for a bit of tech
support or advice.
Ultimately it will probably be a repair job though, because the brightness
definitely works for other people with the same screen.
But even with this complication, I have to say this is still an impressive
experience every time I fire up the PC. As I said about tablets in my Nexus7 thread,
sometimes you get a glimpse of the future of computing, and there is something
distinctly 'Minority Report' about having such a big, vibrant desktop to play with.
Whether it's necessary is a different matter. Very little in PC life is "necessary".
But if you can afford a good graphics card to drive a panel like this it
undoubtedly steps up the gaming experience. It's not "3-screen good" when it comes
to flight or racing sims, but for everything else it's very nice indeed.
I watched the Witcher2 intro again yesterday. It really is ridiculously impressive.
Part of that is the fact they were able to tweak it for gorgeousness, but part of
it is definitely the resolution and IPS experience.
no_m...@zzzyahoo.yycom (noman) wrote:
> I hope you get another panel with no noticeable defects.
I suspect in this kind of price range the risk of some kind of defect is always
going to be strong. It's a case of finding something good enough that it doesn't
bug you in use.
I know some people aren't impressed by the DGM's backlight bleed on a dark screen,
and on mine the lower left is distinctly brighter when letterboxing a movie. That
may well be the kind of thing which makes these panels fail the stricter
manufacturers' criteria, but it's not something which is an issue in real world use
except in very dark circumstances.
I can certainly live with that. And other issues, like my AWOL brightness control,
are likely to be down to manufacturing cut to the bone to preserve some kind of
profit. But then that's why these things are so much cheaper than the mainstream
opposition. So it's hard to complain, and easy to be won over by the screen's
'presence' on your desktop.
rsquires...@MOOflashMOO.net (rms) wrote:
> It's $40 at Amazon and Steam. I never heard of this place
> getgamesgo.com!
Several places have changed their names in recent months and I've lost track of
which company owns which digital portal. So it's kind of pushed me back into using
just Steam again. I was starting to get comfortable using alternative sources but
rebranding and takeover exercises always worry me... perhaps foolishly.
In this case I still haven't any idea who getgamesgo are. :-)
One thing to add is that these panels are very shiny. That's nothing new in the
monitor world, but there's no anti-glare treatment whatsoever, so you have to be
careful with your room/window lighting.
Maybe this is one reason why the panels are so bright by default... to drown out
the reflected light. :-)
Anyway, it's not a problem for me even though I really liked my Dell's anti-glare
finish. But it's the kind of thing some people would find unacceptable... though
perhaps not in this price range. :-)
mcp.and...@DELETTHISgmail.com (Andrew MacPherson) looked up from reading
the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
signs say:
>One thing to add is that these panels are very shiny. That's nothing new in the
>monitor world, but there's no anti-glare treatment whatsoever, so you have to be
>careful with your room/window lighting.
>Maybe this is one reason why the panels are so bright by default... to drown out
>the reflected light. :-)
>Anyway, it's not a problem for me even though I really liked my Dell's anti-glare
>finish. But it's the kind of thing some people would find unacceptable... though
>perhaps not in this price range. :-)
One other thing to be wary of depending on where you're ordering from -
plug type.
From the list noman provided I did a few ebay searches and one Yamasaki
Catleap looked quite good - $350, perfect pixel, double packed for
shipping. Then you scroll way down and there's a note - "Must have
EU/Korean type power plug", which means it's not going to work in North
American plugs.
Glare wouldn't be a problem for me since I have heavy black towels over
the window and generally have only on desk light running (aimed at a
corner of the ceiling.) It's like I'm London Blitz prepared.
No light in, no light out, no glare possible.
I often sleep in the day so blocking out the light is necessary and the
towels let me block out all the light while draping them such that the
cat can still get up in the window.
It doesn't pay to annoy our feline overlords after all.
Xocyll
-- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
> mcp.and...@DELETTHISgmail.com (Andrew MacPherson) looked up from reading
> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
> signs say:
>> One thing to add is that these panels are very shiny. That's nothing new in the
>> monitor world, but there's no anti-glare treatment whatsoever, so you have to be
>> careful with your room/window lighting.
>> Maybe this is one reason why the panels are so bright by default... to drown out
>> the reflected light. :-)
>> Anyway, it's not a problem for me even though I really liked my Dell's anti-glare
>> finish. But it's the kind of thing some people would find unacceptable... though
>> perhaps not in this price range. :-)
> One other thing to be wary of depending on where you're ordering from -
> plug type.
> From the list noman provided I did a few ebay searches and one Yamasaki
> Catleap looked quite good - $350, perfect pixel, double packed for
> shipping. Then you scroll way down and there's a note - "Must have
> EU/Korean type power plug", which means it's not going to work in North
> American plugs.
I think you can just use your existing power cord with the new monitor
and it should work.
> Glare wouldn't be a problem for me since I have heavy black towels over
> the window and generally have only on desk light running (aimed at a
> corner of the ceiling.) It's like I'm London Blitz prepared.
> No light in, no light out, no glare possible.
In such environment, a glossy screen would work out much better than a
matte one. For that matter, I remember finding one Korean monitor that
did have a non-glossy screen. Also few of these come with
tempered-glass, which the Apple Cinema monitors also use. I am not sure
what's the benefit of attaching this glass screen over a glossy LCD
panel, but they do charge extra for it.
Going through this discussion, I am again getting this urge to just buy
one of these panels. What I am hoping is that with the ultra high-res
displays in Apple's monitors, this whole market will have much better
offerings in about 6-12 months. Then I might even find a cheap Korean
120Hz 27" 2560x1440 monitor. But these deals are very tempting already.
--
Noman
Gemini Rue - It's a fairly traditional adventure game with the graphic
technology similar to what used to come about twenty years ago. The
sound effects and the art-style however does create a pretty good
atmosphere. Dialogues are all voice acted. At certain points, the game
may resort to some action sequences where the character will have to
take cover, reload weapon and shoot out. I haven't reached those parts
yet, but the combat interface was covered in a tutorial. Combat controls
were very basic, again something that you may find in early Space Quest
games. For puzzle solving, there are four or five action icons, and the
inventory items can be interacted with in two or three ways. Good game,
overall.
Rage - I purchased it, thanks to a tip about a NewEgg deal posted by
'rms' here. The game is somewhat above-average overall. Combat is quite
good. Driving is uninspired, and textures are shockingly bad at times.
Texture pop-ins are not that big of an issue anymore after id software
patch and graphic driver updates, but they are still noticeable. Texture
detail however can't be made much better. The last patch introduced a
texture detail settings, but all that does is to mathematically sharpen
the base low-resolution textures by a noise pattern, and is fairly hard
on GPU (or may be it's CPU). The performance suffers when I enable that
option and I have an i7 920 @3.6GHz and HD6950 2GB. Without that option,
the game runs with great frame rates.
Witcher - Completed one more mission in act 4. Must be close to act 5 now.
This month, my hard disk running the OS died, and I started using the
Windows8 release preview exclusively, that I was dual booting before. So
far, everything has run well. The only exception was Rage, which would
crash on start, until I changed the compatibility settings to Windows7.
It has worked fine since then.
--
Noman
>> It's $40 at Amazon and Steam. I never heard of this place
>> getgamesgo.com!
>Several places have changed their names in recent months and I've lost track of
>which company owns which digital portal. So it's kind of pushed me back into using
>just Steam again. I was starting to get comfortable using alternative sources but
>rebranding and takeover exercises always worry me... perhaps foolishly.
>In this case I still haven't any idea who getgamesgo are. :-)
>On 8/3/2012 10:49 AM, Xocyll wrote:
>> mcp.and...@DELETTHISgmail.com (Andrew MacPherson) looked up from reading
>> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
>> signs say:
>>> One thing to add is that these panels are very shiny. That's nothing new in the
>>> monitor world, but there's no anti-glare treatment whatsoever, so you have to be
>>> careful with your room/window lighting.
>>> Maybe this is one reason why the panels are so bright by default... to drown out
>>> the reflected light. :-)
>>> Anyway, it's not a problem for me even though I really liked my Dell's anti-glare
>>> finish. But it's the kind of thing some people would find unacceptable... though
>>> perhaps not in this price range. :-)
>> One other thing to be wary of depending on where you're ordering from -
>> plug type.
>> From the list noman provided I did a few ebay searches and one Yamasaki
>> Catleap looked quite good - $350, perfect pixel, double packed for
>> shipping. Then you scroll way down and there's a note - "Must have
>> EU/Korean type power plug", which means it's not going to work in North
>> American plugs.
>I think you can just use your existing power cord with the new monitor
>and it should work.
It's not just the plug, it's the transformer it hooks into and what it's
designed to take for input voltage from the mains.
100-127 volt, at 60 hertz frequency (in general: North and Central
Americas, Western Japan)
220-240 volt, at 50 hertz frequency (in general: the rest of the world,
with some exceptions)
Plugging something made to run on 220@50HZ into 120@60Hz is unlikely to
end well, even if it doesn't explode (which going the other way almost
certainly would.)
>> Glare wouldn't be a problem for me since I have heavy black towels over
>> the window and generally have only on desk light running (aimed at a
>> corner of the ceiling.) It's like I'm London Blitz prepared.
>> No light in, no light out, no glare possible.
>In such environment, a glossy screen would work out much better than a
>matte one. For that matter, I remember finding one Korean monitor that
>did have a non-glossy screen. Also few of these come with
>tempered-glass, which the Apple Cinema monitors also use. I am not sure
>what's the benefit of attaching this glass screen over a glossy LCD
>panel, but they do charge extra for it.
I don't know if it would work out better, but it would work out no worse
I guess. I don't see much point in the tempered glass options since I
don't have kids or drunks around throwing stuff that could damage the
screen.
>Going through this discussion, I am again getting this urge to just buy
>one of these panels. What I am hoping is that with the ultra high-res
>displays in Apple's monitors, this whole market will have much better
>offerings in about 6-12 months. Then I might even find a cheap Korean
>120Hz 27" 2560x1440 monitor. But these deals are very tempting already.
They are quite tempting at the price, especially with that perfect pixel
option. I can't even get that in a store here - they all have that 2-3
dead/lit pixel policy.
I'm resisting at the moment due to unsurety about whether it would work
here - I definitely need one speced for the North American market, and
secondarily my current setup has no room for a monitor that big on the
desk - there's a grid-shelf "hutch" built over the systems to store
cds/dvds and such on and currently that limits me to a 20inch width.
At some point I'll disassemble it and find room elsewhere and then I can
revisit the big-ass monitor purchase.
Xocyll
-- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
> It's not just the plug, it's the transformer it hooks into and what it's
> designed to take for input voltage from the mains.
> 100-127 volt, at 60 hertz frequency (in general: North and Central
> Americas, Western Japan)
> 220-240 volt, at 50 hertz frequency (in general: the rest of the world,
> with some exceptions)
Is that really an issue these days for monitors? At least my Dell
2407WFP says 100 to 240 VAC / 50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz / 2.0A (Max.) for AC
input voltage.
>> It's not just the plug, it's the transformer it hooks into and what it's
>> designed to take for input voltage from the mains.
>> 100-127 volt, at 60 hertz frequency (in general: North and Central
>> Americas, Western Japan)
>> 220-240 volt, at 50 hertz frequency (in general: the rest of the world,
>> with some exceptions)
>Is that really an issue these days for monitors? At least my Dell
>2407WFP says 100 to 240 VAC / 50 or 60 Hz + 3 Hz / 2.0A (Max.) for AC
>input voltage.
That's kinda the point. When importing something directly from a country that uses a different
power scheme than yours and notes that you must be using their kind of
power plug the question is does it support a wide range or was it built
for that market specifically and won't function on the other voltage
scheme at all?
That's not something I'd like to find out after doing an international
order.
I've never heard of any of these brand names before, so that does rather
point to their not being in this market (North America) at all. Since
these are all available for _considerably_ less than the monitors that
do sell here, that could mean they've skimped on the circuitry and can't
function on the power here.
That Monitor I mentioned was $350, the equivalent Samsung (also Korean)
offering available locally is $800 (and if you think it's bad comparing
ebay vs a shop - the same Samsung monitor on ebay was ~$1050.)
$350 vs $1050 - you know they skimped on something.
Xocyll
-- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
I'm interested ..looked at site.
How big is the download ?
The initial Download File the site offers BR_Setup.exe is a humble 68 MB BUT what does that lead to ??
Also particularly, how essential is the in-game purchases to getting a decent Game ?
(\__/)
(='.'=) (")_(") mouse ('acclimated' A New Word For Us ;)
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 23:23:03 +0100, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-s...@never.spam> wrote:
>Hmmmm ;) Thanks Rin . You r a Brick.
>I'm interested ..looked at site.
>How big is the download ?
>The initial Download File the site offers BR_Setup.exe is a humble 68 MB >BUT what does that lead to ??
>Also particularly, how essential is the >in-game purchases to getting a decent Game ?
>(\__/)
>(='.'=) >(")_(") mouse ('acclimated' A New Word For Us ;)
Looking at the folder where it installed all the binaries and such, it
looks like about 1.6GB in total.
To be honest I haven't even looked at in-game purchases... I've been
having fun without betraying my credit card. I think most of the
stuff that you can buy could also be acquired just buy earning XP
in-game.
Be sure to get anti-aliasing going on the exe from your vid driver,
because it's not offered in game and the graphics look like hell
without it.
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 14:38:35 -0700 (PDT), Antonio Huerta
<ahue...@inbox.com> wrote:
>On Aug 1, 10:20 am, Rin Stowleigh <rstowle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> check out
>> Bullet Run.
>Looks like a cross between Rage and Brink, visually.
Sadly I find the matches much more fun in this game than Brink. Brink
is a lot more polished and thought through, yet the sum of its parts
is just no fun to play. This is not on a par with top tier MP games
by any means, but I think the fun factor is there (I mostly play
Dominion mode). It taps into a lot of what I liked about old school
MP shooters without all the pretentiousness and mismanagement we see
these days with current AAA titles.
>When importing something directly from a country that uses a different
power scheme than yours and notes that you must be using their kind of
power plug the question is does it support a wide range or was it built
for that market specifically and won't function on the other voltage
scheme at all?
I've read that many Catleap failures are suspected to be from this issue.
>> When importing something directly from a country that uses a different
>> power scheme than yours and notes that you must be using their kind of
>> power plug the question is does it support a wide range or was it built
>> for that market specifically and won't function on the other voltage
>> scheme at all?
> I've read that many Catleap failures are suspected to be from this
> issue.
I checked out Ebay listings today and most mention that the external
brick sent out to US supports 110-240V. The power cord that goes from
the brick to the wall outlet has the Korean plug, for which you can use
any of the standard power cords used for powering PCs and monitors.
I don't think this particular thing should be a big concern.
The one that can be troubling was the mention of lack of HDCP support in
the review JonL linked here before. Note that HDCP doesn't require HDMI,
and can work perfectly fine on DVI-D which lot of these monitors have as
the only input source. Until now I had never heard this particular
complaint. Some tested on Catleap and Crossover (27Q) monitors and found
HDCP functioning correctly.
Still, ~$300-330 for these monitors is a bit too good of a deal to pass
up. The more I post in this thread, the more I am tempted to forget
about 120Hz and buy one of these right now :)
--
Noman
> Still, ~$300-330 for these monitors is a bit too good of a deal to > pass up.
The current Techreport podcast http://techreport.com/articles.x/23371 has a follow
up mention of an Aria monitor available at Micro Center. It sounds very similar to
mine. A bit more expensive, but with the extra inputs and options.
From what they said it's better than the import they tested, helping justify the
additional cost.
Andrew McP
PS Sorry for setting the hardware huices flowing. :-) I still love mine, I just
wish the brightness worked properly (all efforts to persuade it to have failed) and
it ate a bit less power. On balance though, it's very hard to complain about the
overall package.
