Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Sell DVD game installed on Steam?
72 views
Skip to first unread message
sheg...@uymail.com
Nov 3, 2012, 1:30:00 AM11/3/12
to
Sorry if I'm dredging up old news, but I just encountered the 'no selling' clause in Steam. Does this apply if I bought the DVD version of the game?
Xocyll
Nov 3, 2012, 10:47:58 AM11/3/12
to
sheg...@uymail.com looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Sorry if I'm dredging up old news, but I just encountered the 'no selling' clause in Steam. Does this apply if I bought the DVD version of the game?
Well you could sell the dvd if you wanted to, but since the game has
been linked to your steam account, the buyer couldn't use it unless you
also gave them your account.
If you plan to resell games that link to steam, make a new account for
each game so that you can hand off the account to the purchaser.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Sorry if I'm dredging up old news, but I just encountered the 'no selling' clause in Steam. Does this apply if I bought the DVD version of the game?
been linked to your steam account, the buyer couldn't use it unless you
also gave them your account.
If you plan to resell games that link to steam, make a new account for
each game so that you can hand off the account to the purchaser.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
sheg...@uymail.com
Nov 3, 2012, 7:04:00 PM11/3/12
to
Can someone explain how that's legal? If I buy a pair of shoes at a shoe store and when I get them home decide I don't like the style and when I take them back the retailer says we don't accept returns, you'll have to trade them with somebody. Makes as much sense.
Rin Stowleigh
Nov 3, 2012, 10:21:26 PM11/3/12
to
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 16:04:00 -0700 (PDT), sheg...@uymail.com wrote:
>Can someone explain how that's legal? If I buy a pair of shoes at a shoe store and when I get them home decide I don't like the style and when I take them back the retailer says we don't accept returns, you'll have to trade them with somebody. Makes as much sense.
Agreeing to the terms of a software license (or any other license
>Can someone explain how that's legal? If I buy a pair of shoes at a shoe store and when I get them home decide I don't like the style and when I take them back the retailer says we don't accept returns, you'll have to trade them with somebody. Makes as much sense.
arrangement) and making a tangible purchase are not comparable
scenarios.
Shoes are tangible items. Software is not. You cannot make a
duplicate of shoes with two simple keystrokes and/or upload them to
pirate sites the way you can a game.
Shoes and many tangible items have a manufacturing cost per good
that's associated with them and a profit margin that is known before
hand, for example a shoe vendor might know that the cost per pair to
build is $12 and the shoes will sell for $50 each. If that particular
shoe model does not sell well, they are only out the manufacturing
cost for the first few thousand and they simply kill off the shoe
model and focus on the models that do sell. Most games costs millions
or tens of millions to produce, and usually either succeed big or fail
big, with middle ground being the exception rather the rule.
So no, your shoe analogy does not "make as much sense". Tangible items
and digital software licenses are different.
What I don't know, and can't really contribute to this conversation
since I buy all my Steam games via download, is whether the dilemma
you're experiencing (whether the Steam key is transferrable across
different Steam accounts) is really a Valve decision or a game
publisher decision.
I know that with GFWL, whether or not the serial key ties you to the
MS account is a decision the game developer and/or publisher makes and
not Microsoft's call. I found this out first hand when a Codemasters
game would not transfer to another Windows Live account because the
serial key has already been redeemed. Some other games which required
GFWL were installable to the new account with no problems. Microsoft
confirmed that this was a Codemasters licensing decision, but also
added that Codemasters will usually accomodate a serial key activation
transfer to a new account if you call and speak to customer support.
I'm not sure if the same is true of Steam games or not, but if nothing
else the game developer could potentially just issue another Steam key
if the license agreement you agreed to during game installation did
not specify that you are the sole licensee and that the license is
fully transferable.
sheg...@uymail.com
Nov 3, 2012, 11:14:19 PM11/3/12
to
Steam specifically states in their faq that games cannot be resold, they can only be 'traded,' which means to a 'friend' on Steam. I don't have any friends on Steam. That means I'd have to friend enough people until I found someone who wanted to trade my Dishonored for a game I wanted.
I paid for the license, therefore I own it. There should be no other parties involved controlling the marketing and sale of something I own.
I've contacted Steam support about this matter and am awaiting their reply.
On Saturday, November 3, 2012 7:21:46 PM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
I paid for the license, therefore I own it. There should be no other parties involved controlling the marketing and sale of something I own.
I've contacted Steam support about this matter and am awaiting their reply.
On Saturday, November 3, 2012 7:21:46 PM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
Rin Stowleigh
Nov 4, 2012, 1:32:04 AM11/4/12
to
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:14:19 -0700 (PDT), sheg...@uymail.com wrote:
>Steam specifically states in their faq that games cannot be resold, they can only be 'traded,' which means to a 'friend' on Steam. I don't have any friends on Steam. That means I'd have to friend enough people until I found someone who wanted to trade my Dishonored for a game I wanted.
>
>I paid for the license, therefore I own it.
You mean you agreed for the license and therefore are subject to the
>Steam specifically states in their faq that games cannot be resold, they can only be 'traded,' which means to a 'friend' on Steam. I don't have any friends on Steam. That means I'd have to friend enough people until I found someone who wanted to trade my Dishonored for a game I wanted.
>
>I paid for the license, therefore I own it.
terms of it. Licensing intellectual property is rarely the same as
purchasing tangible property.
The Division of Motor Vehicles doesn't transfer ownership of a
driver's license to a driver. They issue the license if the driver
meets certain criteria (such as an agreement to obey traffic laws) and
the DMV can choose to revoke or renew. Software pirates are kind of
like the irresponsible teenage drivers that necessitated regulation
like DMV in the first place.
Anyway the Steam clause sounds like something that applies to games
bought on Steam, you might want to look into it from the Bethesda
angle; depending on their philosophy or even the particular customer
support rep you get, they may issue a new Steam key (in that scenario
Valve wouldn't know the difference).
I didn't see anything in the manual of Dishonored that prevents
reselling the disc specifically, although the following snippet might
not bode well as far as Bethesda's philosophy on the matter:
"Bethesda Softworks LLC, a ZeniMax Media company (“Bethesda
Softworks”) warrants to you, the original purchaser of this disc and
the game software encoded thereon (“Game”), that under normal use the
Game will perform substantially as described in the accompanying
manual for a period of 90 days from the date of
purchase (“Warranty Period”)."
But it never hurts to try.
sheg...@uymail.com
Nov 4, 2012, 2:17:44 AM11/4/12
to
A driver's license is a privilege given by the government to a particular individual. As such, it is not a product that can be bought and sold, at least legally.
What you quoted from Bethesda is a warranty.
I'm still waiting for a response from Steam.
On Saturday, November 3, 2012 10:32:23 PM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
> Softworks�) warrants to you, the original purchaser of this disc and
>
> the game software encoded thereon (�Game�), that under normal use the
What you quoted from Bethesda is a warranty.
I'm still waiting for a response from Steam.
On Saturday, November 3, 2012 10:32:23 PM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:14:19 -0700 (PDT), shegeek72 wrote:
>
>
>
> >Steam specifically states in their faq that games cannot be resold, they can only be 'traded,' which means to a 'friend' on Steam. I don't have any friends on Steam. That means I'd have to friend enough people until I found someone who wanted to trade my Dishonored for a game I wanted.
>
> >
>
> >I paid for the license, therefore I own it.
>
>
>
> You mean you agreed for the license and therefore are subject to the
>
> terms of it. Licensing intellectual property is rarely the same as
>
> purchasing tangible property.
>
>
>
> The Division of Motor Vehicles doesn't transfer ownership of a
>
> driver's license to a driver. They issue the license if the driver
>
> meets certain criteria (such as an agreement to obey traffic laws) and
>
> the DMV can choose to revoke or renew. Software pirates are kind of
>
> like the irresponsible teenage drivers that necessitated regulation
>
> like DMV in the first place.
>
>
>
> Anyway the Steam clause sounds like something that applies to games
>
> bought on Steam, you might want to look into it from the Bethesda
>
> angle; depending on their philosophy or even the particular customer
>
> support rep you get, they may issue a new Steam key (in that scenario
>
> Valve wouldn't know the difference).
>
>
>
> I didn't see anything in the manual of Dishonored that prevents
>
> reselling the disc specifically, although the following snippet might
>
> not bode well as far as Bethesda's philosophy on the matter:
>
>
>
> "Bethesda Softworks LLC, a ZeniMax Media company (�Bethesda
>
>
>
> >Steam specifically states in their faq that games cannot be resold, they can only be 'traded,' which means to a 'friend' on Steam. I don't have any friends on Steam. That means I'd have to friend enough people until I found someone who wanted to trade my Dishonored for a game I wanted.
>
> >
>
> >I paid for the license, therefore I own it.
>
>
>
> You mean you agreed for the license and therefore are subject to the
>
> terms of it. Licensing intellectual property is rarely the same as
>
> purchasing tangible property.
>
>
>
> The Division of Motor Vehicles doesn't transfer ownership of a
>
> driver's license to a driver. They issue the license if the driver
>
> meets certain criteria (such as an agreement to obey traffic laws) and
>
> the DMV can choose to revoke or renew. Software pirates are kind of
>
> like the irresponsible teenage drivers that necessitated regulation
>
> like DMV in the first place.
>
>
>
> Anyway the Steam clause sounds like something that applies to games
>
> bought on Steam, you might want to look into it from the Bethesda
>
> angle; depending on their philosophy or even the particular customer
>
> support rep you get, they may issue a new Steam key (in that scenario
>
> Valve wouldn't know the difference).
>
>
>
> I didn't see anything in the manual of Dishonored that prevents
>
> reselling the disc specifically, although the following snippet might
>
> not bode well as far as Bethesda's philosophy on the matter:
>
>
>
>
> Softworks�) warrants to you, the original purchaser of this disc and
>
> the game software encoded thereon (�Game�), that under normal use the
>
> Game will perform substantially as described in the accompanying
>
> manual for a period of 90 days from the date of
>
> purchase (�Warranty Period�)."
> Game will perform substantially as described in the accompanying
>
> manual for a period of 90 days from the date of
>
Xocyll
Nov 4, 2012, 3:12:16 AM11/4/12
to
sheg...@uymail.com looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Can someone explain how that's legal? If I buy a pair of shoes at a shoe store and when I get them home decide I don't like the style and when I take them back the retailer says we don't accept returns, you'll have to trade them with somebody. Makes as much sense.
Well up here in Ontario most places won't take back software at all -
once you open it, it's non returnable - the best you can hope for is
another copy if the first one is physically damaged.
It's been that way as far back as I've dealt with software of any kind
(the '80s on.)
Try buying underwear somewhere, putting them on then trying to return
them - ain't gonna happen.
Rin Stowleigh
Nov 4, 2012, 8:44:17 AM11/4/12
to
On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 00:17:44 -0700 (PDT), sheg...@uymail.com wrote:
>A driver's license is a privilege given by the government to a particular individual. As such, it is not a product that can be bought and sold, at least legally.
And whether or not a software license can be sold to transferred to
>A driver's license is a privilege given by the government to a particular individual. As such, it is not a product that can be bought and sold, at least legally.
someone else is a factor of the license terms, not an implied right.
>What you quoted from Bethesda is a warranty.
if they limit warranty to the original purchaser, it might reflect the
philosophy you can expect from Bethesda.
sheg...@uymail.com
Nov 6, 2012, 12:58:29 AM11/6/12
to
Would those license terms be legal (I suppose a lawyer would have to chime in)? Once I've bought a software license I own it. If I want to sell it that should be my right, just as if I bought and sold any commodity. It's up to the software producer to provide a mechanism to prevent usage on two systems simultaneously.
Also, from what I understand the license terms (or TOS, EULA, etc) don't have legal standing since nothing is signed. A contract has to have an offer and acceptance and be signed by both parties.
On Sunday, November 4, 2012 5:44:37 AM UTC-8, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
Also, from what I understand the license terms (or TOS, EULA, etc) don't have legal standing since nothing is signed. A contract has to have an offer and acceptance and be signed by both parties.
On Sunday, November 4, 2012 5:44:37 AM UTC-8, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
Rin Stowleigh
Nov 6, 2012, 10:52:50 AM11/6/12
to
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 21:58:29 -0800 (PST), sheg...@uymail.com wrote:
>Would those license terms be legal (I suppose a lawyer would have to chime in)? Once I've bought a software license I own it. If I want to sell it that should be my right, just as if I bought and sold any commodity. It's up to the software producer to provide a mechanism to prevent usage on two systems simultaneously.
>
>Also, from what I understand the license terms (or TOS, EULA, etc) don't have legal standing since nothing is signed. A contract has to have an offer and acceptance and be signed by both parties.
You don't need a lawyer to cite examples of non-transferrable
>Would those license terms be legal (I suppose a lawyer would have to chime in)? Once I've bought a software license I own it. If I want to sell it that should be my right, just as if I bought and sold any commodity. It's up to the software producer to provide a mechanism to prevent usage on two systems simultaneously.
>
>Also, from what I understand the license terms (or TOS, EULA, etc) don't have legal standing since nothing is signed. A contract has to have an offer and acceptance and be signed by both parties.
licenses. Digital signature is legally binding and takes many forms,
including ticking checkboxes that prevent you from proceeding until
you agree to terms.
Sheldon England
Nov 6, 2012, 4:45:50 PM11/6/12
to
> Would those license terms be legal (I suppose a lawyer would have to chime in)? Once I've bought a software license I own it. If I want to sell it that should be my right, just as if I bought and sold any commodity. It's up to the software producer to provide a mechanism to prevent usage on two systems simultaneously.
>
> Also, from what I understand the license terms (or TOS, EULA, etc) don't have legal standing since nothing is signed. A contract has to have an offer and acceptance and be signed by both parties.
This issue has been discussed ad nauseam over the years.
>
> Also, from what I understand the license terms (or TOS, EULA, etc) don't have legal standing since nothing is signed. A contract has to have an offer and acceptance and be signed by both parties.
Software is different from a physical good. If you have one apple and
you give me that apple I now have the apple and you don't. However, if I
have access to software code (game, DVD, MP3, etc.) I can easily make
5,000,000 copies to give to all my friends.
Technically nothing has been stolen because the original still exists
but legally the weasels claim piracy and loss of revenue and out go the
hounds of law.
To "protect their IP", all software is provided as a "license to use".
You never own anything more than the physical media it came on (if any).
You are not allowed to lend or rent or transfer in any way shape or form.
Most bean counters and lawyers love this system.
Most consumers are either unaware of it and think they actually own
their music, movies, and games -- or they dislike the system but
tolerate it.
You may own your physical hardware but you are only licensed to use the
software (OS, game, music). Check the TOS and EULA. It's in there. How
enforceable it is becomes a matter of intellectual curiosity and debate.
- Sheldon, not a lawyer
sheg...@uymail.com
Nov 7, 2012, 4:24:19 AM11/7/12
to
On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 1:46:04 PM UTC-8, Sheldon England wrote:
> This issue has been discussed ad nauseam over the years.
Yeah, I've loosely followed it.
> This issue has been discussed ad nauseam over the years.
> Software is different from a physical good. If you have one apple and
>
> you give me that apple I now have the apple and you don't. However, if I
>
> have access to software code (game, DVD, MP3, etc.) I can easily make
>
> 5,000,000 copies to give to all my friends.
I understand most any anti-piracy can be defeated. I want to sell the game - not mass produce and pirate it.
Fergo
Nov 26, 2012, 11:23:49 AM11/26/12
to
Want to be a Game Tester?
I been doing this for 6months now and made around if i average of the 6months around $2500mnth thought i would at least share it with like minded gamers such as my self and give a little back.
I love to play games in my spare time so i researched how i could get paid to play games i pretty much came undone and could not find a whole lot.
Then i came across something like no other and was like this cant be real or a straight out scam!!!!!!
So if you are still skeptical like i was 6months ago. Then do what i did and sign up to the 7 day free trial trust me you wont stop using it. It is a very good source of income you can spend as much time as you like some games are so short to complete and test you can do it in 1-2hrs and get paid well to do it. If you are interested go watch the video and then sign up for free 7 day free trial if its not for you because trust me testing is different to playing a game you are TESTING..... then just disregard it and move on.
http://tinyurl.com/awz2hpl
I been doing this for 6months now and made around if i average of the 6months around $2500mnth thought i would at least share it with like minded gamers such as my self and give a little back.
I love to play games in my spare time so i researched how i could get paid to play games i pretty much came undone and could not find a whole lot.
Then i came across something like no other and was like this cant be real or a straight out scam!!!!!!
So if you are still skeptical like i was 6months ago. Then do what i did and sign up to the 7 day free trial trust me you wont stop using it. It is a very good source of income you can spend as much time as you like some games are so short to complete and test you can do it in 1-2hrs and get paid well to do it. If you are interested go watch the video and then sign up for free 7 day free trial if its not for you because trust me testing is different to playing a game you are TESTING..... then just disregard it and move on.
http://tinyurl.com/awz2hpl
0 new messages