It's 2008 - Why the hell are you on Usenet?
Spalls Hurgenson
ask for a while (and I apologize for the trollish subject, but it got
you to look, didn't it?). Especially given the recent topics about
"old geezer" games, it made me curious; given the proliferation of
other forums where you can discuss your favorite topics (for instance,
computer games), what keeps you coming back to Usenet? Because, let's
face it, for all that it helped set the character of the early
Internet, it's an obtuse, often forgotten corner of the 'Net these
days.
So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
newsgroup? Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
elsewhere on the Internet? What keeps you coming back to C.S.I.P.G.A?
Myself, I have three reasons.
The first reason, I have to admit, is sheer inertia. I've been reading
Usenet newsgroups for a long time (yes, I see you over there, Mr
I've-Been-Here-Since-1980, and I acknowledge you've been here longer,
but I've got some tenure too; I've been reading since 1990). I'm used
to coming to Usenet (twice a day, once in the morning and once at
night) for my daily dose, and I see no reason to change my habits now.
The second reason I come to Usenet: the content. Oh, sure, there are
thousands of other forums for other games, but that's part of the
problem. Either the forum is specific to a single-game, or -if it's
one of the exceptionally rare general-gaming forums- it tends to be
run on a website that has the longevity of a housefly (and about the
same popularity).
C.s.i.p.g.a-, despite its declining years, is still one of the premier
forums to discuss topics about any games and not just, say, Doom3 or
Half-Life 2. Furthermore, since this is a general-purpose gaming
forum, I'm likely to hear a wider variety of opinions here (as opposed
to a Doom3 (or other game-specific) forum, which is largely home to
either fanbois or trolls; in my experience, you'll only find those who
absolutely love a game or hate it on those forums. And while
astroturfing isn't unheard of, I frankly trust the comments on Usenet
more than anything I read on a web-forum.
Finally, it's the interface. Maybe I *am* an old geezer, but I despise
the interfaces on web-forums. I use a triple-paned layout in Forte
Agent that lets me move quickly between topics and replies with only a
few keypresses; I can easily compare two comments with a minimum of
effort. If I want to respond, I don't have to register. There's no
flashing banner advertising, no annoying graphic-emoticons or huge
"avatar" images. And no moderator telling me what I can and can't say
(well, there is on some newsgroups but not on c.s.i.p.g.a); if I piss
off enough people, I rightly get killfiled by the individual.
Anyway, despite it's declining membership, that's why I've stuck with
Usenet all these years and why I intend to keep reading until they
turn out the lights. It's one of the more interesting corners of the
Internet as far as I'm concerned, and -for all its lack of flash- one
of the more honest corners as well.
As an unrelated aside: I voted against the C.S.I.P.G split all those
years back; I felt it would diffuse the membership too much (plus,
being interested in many different genres, I didn't want to have to
read six newsgroups instead of just one).
So... what's your story?
m3thod
"Spalls Hurgenson" <yoi...@ebalu.com> wrote in message
news:budjn3lo6uoumu9f3...@4ax.com...
> Okay, it's a bit off-topic but it's a question I've been wanting to
> ask for a while (and I apologize for the trollish subject, but it got
> you to look, didn't it?). Especially given the recent topics about
> "old geezer" games, it made me curious; given the proliferation of
> other forums where you can discuss your favorite topics (for instance,
> computer games), what keeps you coming back to Usenet? Because, let's
> face it, for all that it helped set the character of the early
> Internet, it's an obtuse, often forgotten corner of the 'Net these
> days.
>
> So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
> newsgroup? Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
> recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
> elsewhere on the Internet? What keeps you coming back to C.S.I.P.G.A?
>
Robsey, Shawky and Schrody.
exp
wrote:
>Okay, it's a bit off-topic but it's a question I've been wanting to
>ask for a while (and I apologize for the trollish subject, but it got
>you to look, didn't it?). Especially given the recent topics about
>"old geezer" games, it made me curious; given the proliferation of
>other forums where you can discuss your favorite topics (for instance,
>computer games), what keeps you coming back to Usenet? Because, let's
>face it, for all that it helped set the character of the early
>Internet, it's an obtuse, often forgotten corner of the 'Net these
>days.
You're fully forgiven, because although I feel the need to interject
myself here (balls-first) for bringing this up in the recent Alone in
the Dark thread (hehe.. well okay not really but remember its the new
year so I've been boozing a bit), it is a very discussion worthy
topic, and I am glad my brought it up..
>So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
>newsgroup?
Nostalgia, I guess. I've always been a creature of habit, yet at the
same time a somewhat progressive person in the sense that I try to
stay on the cutting edge.
>Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
>recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
>elsewhere on the Internet? What keeps you coming back to C.S.I.P.G.A?
See, that's what I want to know.. Does anyone actually end up here by
accident, or are they mostly very experienced gamers like us that
return here because of the relative depth of experience of PC gamers
(which threatens to be undermined by the brain-dead console
generation).
>Myself, I have three reasons.
>
>The first reason, I have to admit, is sheer inertia. I've been reading
>Usenet newsgroups for a long time (yes, I see you over there, Mr
>I've-Been-Here-Since-1980, and I acknowledge you've been here longer,
>but I've got some tenure too; I've been reading since 1990). I'm used
>to coming to Usenet (twice a day, once in the morning and once at
>night) for my daily dose, and I see no reason to change my habits now.
Well I would attribute this to old age, but I don't think it is at
all. I was always a creature of habit. My decision to enter a
technology profession, and my drive to stay good at it has somehow
ended up with my passion for technology remaining in-tact (thus far),
has retained a number of things:
1. My passion for games. Not every title I play blows me away but
it was never like that. I can remember being 12 or 13 years old,
filtering through various warez I had, going: "Crap. Crap. Crap..
OH!! Here's a Gem" and then playing that "gem" for hours on end,
spending time on what my parents viewed as a serious waste of time
(how wrong they were).
2. My passion for technology in general, which fuels me to stay on top
of the latest programming techniques. It's really a very intriguing
science, and one of the few sciences where if, you truly understand
how the machine works at the bits and bytes level, there really is a
conclusively documental approach to solving particular problems. The
programming world is overflowing with shyters and foreign consulting
firms which promise a cheaper more optimal solution, but at the end of
the day if you are truly comitted to understanding the bits and bytes
inside and out and you enjoy doing so, you quickly realize that there
is always an opportunity to show some organization how to do their
job, cheaper and more efficiently through automation -- that will
never change.
3. The fact that I discovered Usenet very early, and most of the
people (I think?) that still use it are in the same approximate age
demographic as myself, thus it is an outlet to see how like-aged (and
sometimes but not always liked minded) folks think.
>The second reason I come to Usenet: the content. Oh, sure, there are
>thousands of other forums for other games, but that's part of the
>problem. Either the forum is specific to a single-game, or -if it's
>one of the exceptionally rare general-gaming forums- it tends to be
>run on a website that has the longevity of a housefly (and about the
>same popularity).
I agree, and most of them do not have a definitive archive mechanism
to search for older discussions like the newsgroups do. Although, I
will say, there are a number of web-based interfaces to newsgroups
(some of which do not announce themselves as such), so sometimes we
get incoming traffic and outbound exposure to folks who don't even
realize they are posting to a major artery of the very heart of the
Internet itself, to them it's just another website.
>C.s.i.p.g.a-, despite its declining years, is still one of the premier
>forums to discuss topics about any games and not just, say, Doom3 or
>Half-Life 2.
Heh! From my point of view, its interesting you used both in the same
sentence.
Doom3 is not even worth discussing, IMO. HL2 (or I should say the
source engine) is the most important component of modern gaming to
evolve in this decade (and I don't expect to see that change before
the turn of the next decade). Folks can lament Steam all they want,
but the Source engine is continually offering the best overall gaming
experience on any platform, and after just having spent 4+ hours
playing TeamFortress2 -- perhaps one of the best multiplayer games
created in the history of gaming, I can just say there are enough
people to play with who "get it" than to worry about the folks who
want to grab their cane and walker and go around pissing and moaning
about everything in life.
> Furthermore, since this is a general-purpose gaming
>forum, I'm likely to hear a wider variety of opinions here (as opposed
>to a Doom3 (or other game-specific) forum, which is largely home to
>either fanbois or trolls; in my experience, you'll only find those who
>absolutely love a game or hate it on those forums. And while
>astroturfing isn't unheard of, I frankly trust the comments on Usenet
>more than anything I read on a web-forum.
Hmm.. Well I would suggest broadening your trust horizons just a
little if you really want to know what's good in gaming and what's
not. I don't spend a lot of time on individual forums-- they are
horribly dispersed, as you've already pointed out, but at the same
time this newsgroup has become horribly inbred over the years,
receiving posts by a relatively small group of cynics that will
champion a certain game over another. The tragic side effect of
visiting this or any other board is that certain frequent posters
begin to take on a sense of seniority ("I've been posting here a long
time, thus folks believe in my opinion"), and begin acting as such
which only helps to limit the imagination of the the folks simply
hoping to buy a game which immerses them, provides a good amount of
entertainment and fond memories after the fact. That's really what
gaming is all about, and when folks start putting more stock in the
opinions of prominent individuals rather than taking the time to try
out the game itself, they are already seriously restricting their own
pleasure in the act of gaming itself.
>
>Finally, it's the interface. Maybe I *am* an old geezer, but I despise
>the interfaces on web-forums. I use a triple-paned layout in Forte
>Agent that lets me move quickly between topics and replies with only a
>few keypresses; I can easily compare two comments with a minimum of
>effort. If I want to respond, I don't have to register. There's no
>flashing banner advertising, no annoying graphic-emoticons or huge
>"avatar" images. And no moderator telling me what I can and can't say
>(well, there is on some newsgroups but not on c.s.i.p.g.a); if I piss
>off enough people, I rightly get killfiled by the individual.
I read you loud and clear here... I enjoy the relatively GUI-sparse
interface of Agent and newsreaders in general, but it is very useful
to try new things. Think of all the people living in remote tribes
who resisted new things :) Content in their bliss? Maybe for now.
>Anyway, despite it's declining membership, that's why I've stuck with
>Usenet all these years and why I intend to keep reading until they
>turn out the lights. It's one of the more interesting corners of the
>Internet as far as I'm concerned, and -for all its lack of flash- one
>of the more honest corners as well.
The lights will never be turned out, and I will always keep reading
(maybe not always posting). But please do not start believing it is
necessarily more honest than other gaming forums. People post what
they believe to be true at the time for the most part.
Andrew
wrote:
>So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
>newsgroup?
What I love about Usenet is self moderation via the killfile.
I enjoy reading a lot of the good contributors in this group, but have
a lot of the regs killfiled for one reason or another over the years,
so I am able to tailor the content of this group to my tastes,
something you can't do in any other forum.
I was almost ready to jack this group in with the shenanigans of pc
lamer about a year ago, when nearly all the posts in this group were
people responding to the dumb f***, but then Forte saved the day with
an update to Agent that allowed me to killfile and ignore subthread,
problem solved.
Agent is a large reason why I stick with Usenet, it is so fast and
easy to navigate with simple keystrokes. Every other client I have
tried (probably nearly all of them) have something annoying they lack
from Agent that makes the core experience tortuous even though they
may have bells and whistles that technically make them superior. I do
all my Usenet on my EEE PC these days, and when I got it I was using
its default Linux install. I couldn't get Agent to run via Wine, so
retried all the Linux clients. I found Pan was a lot better than the
last time I had tried it (it now has offline mode) so I tried using it
for a couple of weeks. It has one great feature that I don't think
Agent has (would love to be proved wrong) in that it can suppress
quoted text at a keystroke, which is becoming increasingly useful in
this groups with half the people not bothering to trim their posts
(usually resulting in me not reading them). But even with this great
feature, the basic navigation was more annoying than it needed to be -
having to press CTRL-I for ignore rather than just I for example.
After a while of using Pan I just found I wasn't enjoying Usenet, so I
loaded up Windows 2000 on my EEE and returned to my old friend Agent
:-)
--
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
JAB
an O.B.N. for that man ... :-)
Mr Rob
wrote:
>So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
>newsgroup? Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
>recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
>elsewhere on the Internet? What keeps you coming back to C.S.I.P.G.A?
I'm a long time Usenet resident. I started off using a 28k modem to
post to the closed Claranet groups about 10 or 11 years ago. From
there I think I branched out to uk.misc , AUK, AHM and some of the
Freeserve groups some time after that.
I've never stopped downloading usenet posts in all that time. I'm not
as active as I used to be because it has changed a lot. In the UK the
creation of the "free" ISP business model meant that a lot more people
got internet access as well as access to Usenet as part of an
initiative by Freeserve (who rebranded as Wanadoo).
The influx of new posters was actually good in many ways but it also
watered down a lot of the quality groups in my opinion.
As for csipcga, I've posting here since before Return to Castle
Wolfenstein was released. It was a search for information about that
game that led me to this group.
I like this group. It's very different from most of the others that I
post in, but it has a certain familiar charm about it that I like.
It's certainly a lot calmer and less troll infested than most of the
big .misc and .local groups.
Sometimes I think it would be nice to see more discussion about games
and gameplay with perhaps a few more people posting. For the most part
though I still enjoy this group despite its obvious decline in recent
years.
--
Rob
i own a yacht
> The first reason, I have to admit, is sheer inertia. I've been reading
> Usenet newsgroups for a long time (yes, I see you over there, Mr
> I've-Been-Here-Since-1980, and I acknowledge you've been here longer,
> but I've got some tenure too; I've been reading since 1990). I'm used
> to coming to Usenet (twice a day, once in the morning and once at
> night) for my daily dose, and I see no reason to change my habits now.
1993 here, and i haven't found a reason to abandon it yet, either.
> The second reason I come to Usenet: the content. Oh, sure, there are
> thousands of other forums for other games, but that's part of the
> problem. Either the forum is specific to a single-game, or -if it's
> one of the exceptionally rare general-gaming forums- it tends to be
> run on a website that has the longevity of a housefly (and about the
> same popularity).
that would be it, i suppose. most web forums are setup to support
specific things, and they're good for that. but i don't feel the need to
seek out a new home for general discussion when i already have usenet.
this is enough for me.
> It's one of the more interesting corners of the Internet as far as I'm
> concerned, and -for all its lack of flash- one of the more honest corners
> as well.
the lack of moderation can do wonders.
--
"(HL2) Ep2 is non linear .... multiple ways to achieve the same goals"
-Walter Mitty
Andrew MacPherson
> So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet
Simply ease of use. If someone would create an OLR for forums I'd be very
happy indeed. The ability to download all new messages while I'm doing
something else, skip through them as quickly or as slowly as I like --
without waiting for the poxy forum server and/or adverts! -- makes
newsgroups a much simpler way of exchanging information.
The best thing about this particular group is that there are still enough
people posting to make it a useful resource. Sadly flight-sim and RAS are
less useful these days... though in part that's due to lack of things to
discuss. However there are photography, computing, F1, and even Pink
Floyd groups which still have plenty of life left in them.
It may well be that it's only us old gits who keep newsgroups alive. So
that means there's only about another 30 years or so before they go
totally silent... well, except for that twat repeatedly whinging on every
newsgroup about MI5, obviously!
Andrew McP
Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller
> that means there's only about another 30 years or so before they go
> totally silent... well, except for that twat repeatedly whinging on every
> newsgroup about MI5, obviously!
On a similiar note: is there anyway to killfile the idiot because the normal
subject/name/header aren't going to work ATM?
Thanks
johns
age. But what keeps me here is the lack of
moderators. There is just something I don't like
about those jerks. They think they are in charge
of "mind-control" and I'm never allowed to have
an opinion .. unless I do the appropriate amount
of sucking up and apologizing for my pitiful
existance. I have .. without a single exception
... been banned from every single moderated
group I ever joined. Not for trolling, but for simply
being smarter than your average moderator. They
don't like that one bit. I have been banned from:
a roller skating group .. because I know how to
do crossovers properly.
an ice skating group .. because I don't much
think coaches are gods.
an inline skating group .. because I don't like
punks, and make fun of them.
a Unix group .. because I called them a bunch
of clueless jargon users.
a WinXP Security group ... because I called them
a bunch of jargon users ... and gave examples
of how to describe a problem without sounding
like a know-it-all.
I like Usenet because I can come out here, and
on the rare occassion actually find an intelligent
person, and get honest answers from him/her ...
or I can wade into the ButtHeads, and show them
up for what they are ... and keep coming back.
johns
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Okay, it's a bit off-topic but it's a question I've been wanting to
>ask for a while (and I apologize for the trollish subject, but it got
>you to look, didn't it?). Especially given the recent topics about
>"old geezer" games, it made me curious; given the proliferation of
>other forums where you can discuss your favorite topics (for instance,
>computer games), what keeps you coming back to Usenet? Because, let's
>face it, for all that it helped set the character of the early
>Internet, it's an obtuse, often forgotten corner of the 'Net these
>days.
>
>So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
>newsgroup? Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
>recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
>elsewhere on the Internet? What keeps you coming back to C.S.I.P.G.A?
>
It's a good place for general chat (about specific topics, like PC
RPGs, Action games, etc).
Plus most web forums I've seen (especially gaming sites) have a very
high arsehole/reasonable person ratio. I occasionally check the EQ2
and Hellgate:London forums, and all anyone seems to do is fucking
bitch and whine about how much they hate the game or how their main
character's class has been nerfed.
Shawk
>
> So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
> newsgroup? Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
> recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
> elsewhere on the Internet? What keeps you coming back to C.S.I.P.G.A?
First is probably habit I guess. Even if no-one was saying anything
interesting I'd still check. I've been around in various guises a fair
old time too and habits are hard to break (he says as he sticks the
nicotine patch to his arm)
I like the people. I do go to other newsgroups, forums, etc and while
there will always be a few helpful genuine people they are normally
outnumbered by trolls or idiots. We have a few socks and occasionally a
few idiots but in the main everyone's post is worth reading (even if you
don't agree with them)
Your specific groups like Doom and HL are OK and again there a number of
good folk in them but unless you were there at the start you'll always
be an outsider no matter how many years you've posted there. In here 5
posts seems to make you a reg and I like that. It doesn't discourage
new people.
It's not just games. You want to know what kind of frame rates people
are getting with a particular game and particular hardware then you can
find out here. You want to know what folk think of a certain gfx card
you can find out here. You want to know about Jolly Jack Thompson, copy
protection, the latest series of Spooks or what Denny Pants had for Xmas
you can find out here. Crappest FPS game? No problem (speak to Rob) ;-)
But the biggest reason for me (which should be obvious) is the talk
about the games by people who have actually played them. They'll tell
you what they like and what they don't and you can then question those
opinions as much as you like until you are 90% sure you will like or
dislike a game. You don't get that anywhere else that I know of. As
someone else pointed out in the specific groups and forums you tend to
get the complete opposites (fans and haters) whereas you do seem to get
a much more balanced view here.
Finally, you'll find the latest patches and mods for the widest ranges
of games; the best places for freeware and it's self moderated
It's a great group... we should charge admission.
J Hoppe
No censorship but your own self made filters.
On the specific gaming forum, if you have a critique, it might get snipped
by the mod's.
Before google, and you needed a hint, the csipga was right here.
Thinking about buying a new game? 8 first adopters will rush out and buy it
here, and then complain about interface, AI, linear gameplay, price worth
entertainment....and have been waaay more accurate than any magazine that
needs ad revenue.
History. Certain people have the same gaming styles and if they are
complaining about X Y Z usually I won't like X Y Z as well.
Thank god the signal to noise ratio is starting to come back. :) *knocks
wood*
Shawk
Old Bastard nomination?
Shawk
What a newbie question! ;-)
Not sure how it works in OE6 which you're using but you should be able
to do something similar. In Thunderbird I set up a filter with three lines:
Subject contains M
Subject contains I
Subject contains 5
With a rule that says that *all* of those three must be matched and then
to delete those messages.
It's crude and relies on no 'normal' folk talking about MI5 in the
subject header but it gets around the variations used and I wanted
something quick that worked over Xmas. If anyone has better suggestions
though I'd also be interested
Shawk
BTW - I set this filter up for the account as a whole and not individual
newsgroups. If you use other ng's you'll know he's hit pretty much all
of them with this crap. Guy should be 'disappeared'
Sentinel
Dennis Schamne
> So... what's your story?
Most of the stuff has already been mentioned by other users so here's my
other reason: The lack of huge flashy signatures as seen on html-forums -
most of them use even more space than the message itself.
Dennis
Xocyll
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Okay, it's a bit off-topic but it's a question I've been wanting to
>ask for a while (and I apologize for the trollish subject, but it got
>you to look, didn't it?). Especially given the recent topics about
>"old geezer" games, it made me curious; given the proliferation of
>other forums where you can discuss your favorite topics (for instance,
>computer games), what keeps you coming back to Usenet? Because, let's
>face it, for all that it helped set the character of the early
>Internet, it's an obtuse, often forgotten corner of the 'Net these
>days.
Several reasons, similar to yours.
No censorship (either externally applied or self-censorship to keep ad
revenue.)
No ads (for the most part and no picture ads ever.)
No Avatars, post counts, titles or sig pictures as pollute almost every
web forum.
No 10 messages per page crap.
The ability to get all the messages in a group or groups, then read them
later, as opposed to the web forum format of get 10 messages, avatars,
sig pictures, etc and wait till it all loads, then repeat for another
10.
If I don't want a useful message to go away, then with one keypress it
can't, since it's stored locally - web forums expire messages for all
kinds of reasons.
No web forum kiddies - the lack of avatars (animated or otherwise)
titles, post counts or picture sig keeps them away.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Xocyll
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller wrote:
>>> It may well be that it's only us old gits who keep newsgroups alive. So
>>> that means there's only about another 30 years or so before they go
>>> totally silent... well, except for that twat repeatedly whinging on every
>>> newsgroup about MI5, obviously!
>>
>> On a similiar note: is there anyway to killfile the idiot because the normal
>> subject/name/header aren't going to work ATM?
>
>
>What a newbie question! ;-)
>
>Not sure how it works in OE6 which you're using but you should be able
>to do something similar. In Thunderbird I set up a filter with three lines:
>
>Subject contains M
>Subject contains I
>Subject contains 5
In agent I used :
Subject: {Pers} and Subject: {cution}
Spalls Hurgenson
<j2003.n...@sbcx.com> wrote:
Wow, I seem to have a hit a chord here; a lot more people participated
in this thread than I expected (I guess I'm on fewer kill-files than I
thought ;-)
It's interesting to see that -for a lot of people- habit or inertia is
a major reason for their current subscription to the newsgroup. I
guess we are all a bunch of old fogeys (well, you guys are, anyway. As
far as I'm telling, I'm eighteen; that's my story and I'm sticking
with it!).
Not too surprisingly (but somewhat disappointingly), everyone who
responded seems to be a long-time subscriber; are there any relatively
NEW people here (one or two years)? Or has our combined crotchetiness
scared away all the "newbs"?
Side note: I've managed to archive all my usenet posts since 1993 (I
know there were posts before that, I just can't find 'em). Yes, I am
that self-involved.
Keep on posting.
Shawk
>
> History. Certain people have the same gaming styles and if they are
> complaining about X Y Z usually I won't like X Y Z as well.
Good point - plus related to this if I want to know about a certain type
of game then I know pretty much who to ask about it.
Shawk
>
> I've never stopped downloading usenet posts in all that time. I'm not
> as active as I used to be because it has changed a lot. In the UK the
> creation of the "free" ISP business model meant that a lot more people
> got internet access as well as access to Usenet as part of an
> initiative by Freeserve (who rebranded as Wanadoo).
>
> The influx of new posters was actually good in many ways but it also
> watered down a lot of the quality groups in my opinion.
Hmm.. the opposite of that is if you use BT in the UK it's almost
impossible to find out anything on their pages (either in support or
FAQ's etc) about Usenet.
Even though there are a number of BT technical and support newsgroups
(which are user groups with a distinct lack of anyone from support
actually in there from BT) you have to be fairly clued up to find out
how to subscribe etc. This particular ISP seems to prefer it if Usenet
just went away and we all used their web-based crap.
Obviously if you know about newsgroups you could Google and you'll find
an old user-made FAQ by Mike Hart that'll get you started but the server
and groups have changed since Mike left
New folk probably spend years online blissfully ignorant that Usenet exists.
Benjamin Gawert
> So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet
Probably the same reason as yours. I just hate web forums. First, as you
already stated the interface usually is crap. Text-based Usenet lets me
read threads the way I like, with the software I prefer, and in plain
text format.
The second reason is that the level on web forums usually is much lower
than on Usenet. There are more idiots like "pc gamer", "johns" and the
well-known Dutch idiot from the Nvidia group "SkyFuck", and there
usually is way more BS around than here (especially at the technical level).
Third, as you also said already, these web forums are either very
limited (i.e. to a certain game/topic) and/or suffers from a short live.
The latter one is also because there is not one specific forums but
usually several competing ones.
Benjamin
Shawk
>
> The second reason is that the level on web forums usually is much lower
> than on Usenet. There are more idiots like "pc gamer", "johns" and the
> well-known Dutch idiot from the Nvidia group "SkyFuck", and there
> usually is way more BS around than here (especially at the technical
> level).
Very few people go into the killfile as I'm not a big believer in it but
Skybuck Flying is so bad that newsreaders should come with him already
installed as a default filter
Andrew
<schmn...@arcor.de> wrote:
>Most of the stuff has already been mentioned by other users so here's my
>other reason: The lack of huge flashy signatures as seen on html-forums -
>most of them use even more space than the message itself.
Adblock Plus in Firefox sorts out that problem nicely when necessity
means I have to visit the murky worlds of web forums.
J Hoppe
BTW thanks all for all the favorable stuff on stalker. I picked up at bargin
prices, and had a great little ride.
Anyone have the codes for the extra content and was it worth it?
JAB
Order of the Brown Nose ... :-)
m3thod
Michael Sisson
says...
>
> Most of the stuff has already been mentioned by other users so here's my
> other reason: The lack of huge flashy signatures as seen on html-forums -
> most of them use even more space than the message itself.
>
Says he with the huge flashy X-Face. Damn, usenet is getting too
'glittery'.
;)
MRSisson
--
LOAD "GPL",8
SEARCHING FOR GPL
LOADING
READY.
RUN
noman
"Spalls Hurgenson" <yoi...@ebalu.com> wrote in message
news:budjn3lo6uoumu9f3...@4ax.com...
> Okay, it's a bit off-topic but it's a question I've been wanting to
> ask for a while (and I apologize for the trollish subject, but it got
> you to look, didn't it?).
You mentioned three reasons that you like coming here; inertia,
content and simplicity of interface.
For me, the biggest reason is the lack of moderators in an
unmoderated newsgroup. I don't want anyone watching over all
the posts and deciding for me, which ones should be allowed
or which should be moved someplace else.
I also like the lesser degree of pack-hunting behaviour on
usenet when compared to webforums. There is no in-your-face
post-counts, poster ranks and minimum requirements. The
overuse of in-jokes that are a) obvious to only very few
people in a web-forum and b) were never funny to begin with,
barely exists here. It's a very simple medium for sharing
information, spam and opinions.
The content in csipg* newsgroups (even inclusive of BC3K
saga) is generally very good, and no single web-forum about
PC gaming can compete. However, if you do a web-search you
can see all the forum posts from a variety of places. So
I can get the contents from other places as well. Four or
five years ago, if I had to get an opinion about hardware,
a game-patch location and other similar things, I'd look
at DejaNews (acquired by Google Groups later), but now
I almost always get better information when doing a Yahoo
or Google search. I just add "forum" to the topic search
string. For example, when I was buying an LCD TV last year,
the best information was at AVS-forum and when I am
searching for a widescreen FOV fix, I look at
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com. Hot deals on games
and hardware are found on forums too.
So it comes back to inertia too. I want newsgroups to
stay useful, and I do my part to post particular solutions
or hot-deals back in these groups, so the Google Groups
search results can have one more post.
Thanks for the thread by the way. It's disappointing
though that no one has yet said that they subscribed to
these groups in the last year or two.
--
Noman
Dennis Schamne
>>Most of the stuff has already been mentioned by other users so here's my
>>other reason: The lack of huge flashy signatures as seen on html-forums -
>>most of them use even more space than the message itself.
>
> Adblock Plus in Firefox sorts out that problem nicely when necessity
> means I have to visit the murky worlds of web forums.
And create a rule on every html-forum for every user with his special
signature? My news client has the option to hide other user's signatures
(if they have been correctly separated from the body by a "-- ") which is
much easier.
Dennis
Andrew
<schmn...@arcor.de> wrote:
>> Adblock Plus in Firefox sorts out that problem nicely when necessity
>> means I have to visit the murky worlds of web forums.
>
>And create a rule on every html-forum for every user with his special
>signature?
No, but it is usually pretty easy to create a rule that blocks the
user images on a per site basis, it is a plethora of animated gif's
that usually drives me potty.
Andrew
wrote:
>Thanks for the thread by the way. It's disappointing
>though that no one has yet said that they subscribed to
>these groups in the last year or two.
As someone else mentioned, Usenet is generally inhabited by people who
have been using it for years, which for me is another plus, you get
more mature posters without the infantile wailing you often seen in
web forums.
For myself, when I first got on the net a long time ago I bought a
book that taught me the basics. It had a useful chapter on Usenet,
which had me buying Agent very soon afterwards, the best software
purchase I have ever made! These days pretty much everyone knows the
basics of the net when they buy a computer and know enough to use
Google and from there find web forums, and will probably never learn
about Usenet.
Jimbob
> Not too surprisingly (but somewhat disappointingly), everyone who
> responded seems to be a long-time subscriber; are there any relatively
> NEW people here (one or two years)? Or has our combined crotchetiness
> scared away all the "newbs"?
I'm relatively new to this group, only been lurking for a few months
now. I'm a quiet laid back kinda guy, so i don't really find the need to
reply to most threads, all the information i need has already been
covered. Although, i may have some input on newer games once i get a
decent system again, still using 6600gt, it's great for CS:S but thats
as far as she blows really.
Briarroot
>
> I must admit I come here only occasionally nowadays, but that also
> goes to other (web based) game groups. This is mainly because I am in
> a gaming limbo, "stuck" into playing older games. I prefer playing
> older games becauseI can be pickier with them as there are so many to
> choose from, they are kinder to hardware (many of which run great even
> on my years old laptop (it can barely run Half-life 2 acceptably;
> anything below that is ok)), and I have the luxury of usually playing
> pretty stable and bug-free versions of games, some even with
> third-party community patches and mods. Oh and older games are cheaper
> too, of course.
> ...
>
> Hence, I don't really see the point in discussing about new games,
> other than making a mental note on games which seem to get universal
> praise. Maybe I will buy and play that game in a few years. Overall, I
> don't find discussing about games quite as interesting as playing
> them.
> ...
>
> As for web based forums, I hang around them even less due to few
> reasons:
>
> - they seem to have much younger people than these groups.
>
> - possibly due to above reason, they prefer talking about console
> games, or consolish games.
>
> - in web based forums, it is much harder to keep track of discussions
> ie. what new messages have appeared since your last visit a couple of
> weeks or months earlier.
>
The above neatly sums up my attitude and gaming habits as well.
--
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of
his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare others who have
not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the
first principle of association: the guarantee to everyone the free
exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." - Thomas
Jefferson.
Dtolman
>
> So, what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically- this
> newsgroup? Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
> recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
> elsewhere on the Internet? What keeps you coming back to C.S.I.P.G.A?
succinctly - because its
-uncensored
-univeral access
-archived and searchable
-relatively unfractured
message boards are fenced off internet zones of dubious lifespans -
why ask a question that could benefit just a few, and accessible to a
few more, when it can be posted somewhere where (potentially) anyone
can read it, and it will (probably) be archived and searchable for
years if not decades...
Daniel
Sheldon England
>
> what keeps you coming back to Usenet, and -specifically-
> this newsgroup?
Easy to answer in your own words:
> it's the interface
> no flashing banner advertising, no annoying graphic-emoticons
> or huge "avatar" images
> I frankly trust the comments on Usenet more than anything
> I read on a web-forum
> no moderator
> If I want to respond, I don't have to register
> an old-timer, like myself
- Sheldon, too lazy to use his own words
Toby Newman
I stay because of:
Killfiles, allowing me to sculpt the content to my taste.
Threading, and the ability to ignore threads when the go OT.
Portability of the text-only format, allowing me to read from
my PDA.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
DocScorpio
"Spalls Hurgenson" <yoi...@ebalu.com> wrote in message
news:budjn3lo6uoumu9f3...@4ax.com...
> Okay, it's a bit off-topic but it's a question I've been wanting to
> ask for a while (and I apologize for the trollish subject, but it got
> "old geezer" games, it made me curious; given the proliferation of
> other forums where you can discuss your favorite topics (for instance,
> computer games), what keeps you coming back to Usenet? Because, let's
> face it, for all that it helped set the character of the early
> Internet, it's an obtuse, often forgotten corner of the 'Net these
> days.
>
> newsgroup? Are you an old-timer, like myself, or somebody who has
> recently come to Usenet and found something they couldn't find
>
>
>
> Myself, I have three reasons.
>
> The first reason, I have to admit, is sheer inertia. I've been reading
> Usenet newsgroups for a long time (yes, I see you over there, Mr
> I've-Been-Here-Since-1980, and I acknowledge you've been here longer,
> but I've got some tenure too; I've been reading since 1990). I'm used
> to coming to Usenet (twice a day, once in the morning and once at
> night) for my daily dose, and I see no reason to change my habits now.
>
>
> The second reason I come to Usenet: the content. Oh, sure, there are
> thousands of other forums for other games, but that's part of the
> problem. Either the forum is specific to a single-game, or -if it's
> one of the exceptionally rare general-gaming forums- it tends to be
> run on a website that has the longevity of a housefly (and about the
> same popularity).
>
> C.s.i.p.g.a-, despite its declining years, is still one of the premier
> forums to discuss topics about any games and not just, say, Doom3 or
> Half-Life 2. Furthermore, since this is a general-purpose gaming
> forum, I'm likely to hear a wider variety of opinions here (as opposed
> to a Doom3 (or other game-specific) forum, which is largely home to
> either fanbois or trolls; in my experience, you'll only find those who
> absolutely love a game or hate it on those forums. And while
> astroturfing isn't unheard of, I frankly trust the comments on Usenet
> more than anything I read on a web-forum.
>
>
> Finally, it's the interface. Maybe I *am* an old geezer, but I despise
> the interfaces on web-forums. I use a triple-paned layout in Forte
> Agent that lets me move quickly between topics and replies with only a
> few keypresses; I can easily compare two comments with a minimum of
> effort. If I want to respond, I don't have to register. There's no
> flashing banner advertising, no annoying graphic-emoticons or huge
> (well, there is on some newsgroups but not on c.s.i.p.g.a); if I piss
> off enough people, I rightly get killfiled by the individual.
>
>
> Anyway, despite it's declining membership, that's why I've stuck with
> Usenet all these years and why I intend to keep reading until they
> turn out the lights. It's one of the more interesting corners of the
> Internet as far as I'm concerned, and -for all its lack of flash- one
> of the more honest corners as well.
>
> As an unrelated aside: I voted against the C.S.I.P.G split all those
> years back; I felt it would diffuse the membership too much (plus,
> being interested in many different genres, I didn't want to have to
> read six newsgroups instead of just one).
>
> So... what's your story?
>
>
days than a couple of years ago....because, frankly, the gaming ng's (with
the exception of this one) seem to be dying.
2) Many of the regulars here are knowledgeable and appear to have the same
tastes in games as I do.....so this is the place to come to get decent
reviews of new games (also an excellent place for tech info). More and more
though, I'm relying on generalist game sites, such as OO and Qt3. Except
for specific strategy or game problems, I avoid game-specific sites for
reasons already mentioned by others.
Anssi Saari
> As an unrelated aside: I voted against the C.S.I.P.G split all those
> years back; I felt it would diffuse the membership too much (plus,
> being interested in many different genres, I didn't want to have to
> read six newsgroups instead of just one).
Oh, I voted against it too, but had also seen enough votes at that
point to be sure it'd pass... And it did and volume went up even more.
I was against the creation of C.S.I.P.G, since I thought having an
easily findable group for gaming discussion instead of rec.games.misc
would not benefit anyone, just increase the noise. In retrospect, I
suppose I was wrong.
> So... what's your story?
To the question in Subject, I suppose the biggest reason I'm still on
Usenet is that the Finnish sfnet-hierarchy is pretty good. For some
topics anyways, the gaming group there is pretty much dead. Which is
why I follow the groups in CSIPG-hierarchy as well. And some groups in
the de-hierarchy for a little language practise. To sum it up, Usenet
provides information and not the corporate bullshit so common on web
sites. Well, the decline of Usenet also has the benefit that it
doesn't take so much time to check the interesting groups :)
Norma
> years back; I felt it would diffuse the membership too much (plus,
> being interested in many different genres, I didn't want to have to
> read six newsgroups instead of just one).
>
>
>
bothered to look for any other way to get the info and help I've gotten from
you guys for years. I think I've been reading this group since the 80's
when I was a secretary at UoW. And this group is very entertaining, even
when I am being insulted and even when I hardly know what you are all
talking about (I have no technical background at all, just advice from
people to learn from ).
Norma
JLC
"Norma" <nse...@bmts.com> wrote in message
> For all of the above and because with my sorry connection speed I haven't
> bothered to look for any other way to get the info and help I've gotten
> from you guys for years. I think I've been reading this group since the
> 80's when I was a secretary at UoW. And this group is very entertaining,
> even when I am being insulted and even when I hardly know what you are all
> talking about (I have no technical background at all, just advice from
> people to learn from ).
>
> Norma
'93 when the 3DO first came out. It was a 3DO newsgroup and it was before
the first Playstation had even came out and there was a heck of a lot of
people excited about the 3DO even though it didn't sell well.
My nephew worked at the U of W Hospital so he had access to the student
computer lab which was a huge two story building full of Unix terminals and
Next machines. I believe it was called ACC. Anyway I didn't have a PC yet
so every Sat. I'd meet up with my nephew and we would log onto Usenet (he
did most of the logging in because he knew the Unix commands) Then instead
of sitting in that hot building all day reading, I'd print out every post to
the group. There was a central bank of huge printers and they would hand me
a pile of folded printer paper sometimes more then a foot thick! I'd then
take the printout home and spend hours and hours reading through the
threads. I did this for almost a year before I finally got my first PC.
Logging into Usenet was the first thing I did once I got myself online. This
was when Netscape was just coming out. And I really didn't now much about
the WWW yet. Just that I could finally look at my newsgroup at home. What
was so funny was I was so used to reading the info from printer paper that
at first I printed out the threads! I still can remember when it dawned on
me that I didn't have to print it out anymore! I could sit comfortably at
home and read all the groups I wanted!
And I've been reading Usenet pretty much everyday since then. I hate web
forums. I hate having to sigh up just to post a question, and half the time
I never get the e-mail they send you so you can log into their great forum.
I remember not that long ago when this group would have 300 or more posts a
day. If I missed just a couple of days I'd be way behind.
To this day if I have a question, I can post it on a newsgroup and 9 times
out of 10 I'll get the help I need. When I need some info I always do a
Google newsgroup search first and again I almost always find my answer.
Usenet has been great to me for all these years, and I hope that it will
continue to be there for me in the years to come. IMHO it's the best place
to share my ideas and get help. And I also enjoy being able to help someone
out once in awhile. It always seems that someone out there has had the exact
same problem I once had or is still having it and together we can give each
other advice. I get a feeling of community here that I don't feel anywhere
else on the net.
JLC
Norma
"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
news:g6KdnWV4SbEJVBza...@comcast.com...
It was the University of Waterloo in Ontario. I worked as a secretary in an
Engineering department. I typed technical papers for grad students and
professors using troff (Unix). The students got me hooked on games and got
tired of me asking questions so they told me about usenet. Because I worked
so much at home they gave me an ancient terminal and a Gandalf box to
connect to the University network. That was before you could pay a server.
Early days, lots of frustration. Still lots of frustration, just different
names! And back then, if I had printed out a huge stack of paper like you
were describing, I'd have been hung! The printers were so busy in Computer
Services, we didn't have our own printers yet until we started using
Wordstar in the office and our printers weren't connected to the mainframe
so we couldn't print Unix stuff. And I still get behind reading this group.
Norma
JLC
> It was the University of Waterloo in Ontario. I worked as a secretary in
> an Engineering department. I typed technical papers for grad students and
> professors using troff (Unix). The students got me hooked on games and
> got tired of me asking questions so they told me about usenet. Because I
> worked so much at home they gave me an ancient terminal and a Gandalf box
> to connect to the University network. That was before you could pay a
> server. Early days, lots of frustration. Still lots of frustration, just
> different names! And back then, if I had printed out a huge stack of
> paper like you were describing, I'd have been hung! The printers were so
> busy in Computer Services, we didn't have our own printers yet until we
> started using Wordstar in the office and our printers weren't connected to
> the mainframe so we couldn't print Unix stuff. And I still get behind
> reading this group.
>
> Norma
>
a vinyl record! I had to take her to a Hi-Fi store just so I could show her
what a turntable looked like. She looked at me like I was crazy when I tried
to explain how the needle would sit on the record and sound would come out.
She said "why would anyone want to do that when they can just pop in a CD! I
felt really old that day. I kind of like having been around back before the
web. I have some good old Internet stories to tell my daughter, problem is
she really could care a less!It's just amazing to kids today that there was
ever a time when people couldn't go online when ever they wanted to.
JLC
noman
>Anyway I didn't have a PC yet
>so every Sat. I'd meet up with my nephew and we would log onto Usenet (he
>did most of the logging in because he knew the Unix commands) Then instead
>of sitting in that hot building all day reading, I'd print out every post to
>the group. There was a central bank of huge printers and they would hand me
>a pile of folded printer paper sometimes more then a foot thick! I'd then
>take the printout home and spend hours and hours reading through the
>threads. I did this for almost a year before I finally got my first PC.
I hope for your sake that Al Gore is not reading this thread.
--
Noman
*^&%$$#*%!
Freedom of speech. I go to web forums too but I hate all the little hitler
mods at web forums. Here if I want to tell someone to 'eff off etc. I can't
get banned for it, as has happened many times to me at web forums. Web
forums to me reperesent a microcosm of society where people want to be
controlled and Usenet represents the last refuge for those that appreciate
freedom of speech. I know that comes with some negatives but you have to
take the bad with the good.