Boot Sector Game Compo! / DemoOS
Richard James
Hi Folks,
I number of you may be familar with the 256byte game compo that took place
sometime last year.... (See CD-ROM.COM or Dan Wright's Freedom CD!)
Well I am proposing a Boot Sector Game Compo!!! Entry details & example
code to be announced within the next few days.
Should give you all something to do over Christmas ;-)
A few thoughts about the "dead" DemoOS:
---------------------------------------
To me the ideal solution would be to have a bootsector which loads a
hidden file from the first few sectors of a normal DOS floppy (like IO.SYS
loads DRVSPACE.BIN or DBLSPACE.BIN), this program could then search the
FAT for the game or demo which could be copied onto the floppy under DOS
[or any other O/S which supports DOS disks] in the normal way).
By doing it that way another DOS program could also be written to run the
demo under DOS or even Linux as well (best of both worlds!). If this
"new" idea grew (which DemoOS never did), then it would be practical to
start writing new MBR's and "new" file systems, and then talking about a
"Demo/Game" partition to our HD's.
Hey, imagine MS's shock if all the game companies took it up :-)
Arjay/Aurora
BTW: The only bit of DemoOS I have seen was an early version of the
BootCode, which basically just shoved the PC straight into PMode!!!
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Richard James (aka Arjay) - SYSOP/P.R for the Aurora PC Demo Group |
| Tel: +44 (01202) 849926 BBS: +44 (01202) 848926 |
| |
| BootSector Game Compo: Contact me for details!! |
| |
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\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Juergen Rally Fischer
Richard James (ar...@spuddy.mew.co.uk) wrote:
> By doing it that way another DOS program could also be written to run the
> demo under DOS or even Linux as well (best of both worlds!). If this
So you suggest to load demos from floppy ?
Curious, on the Amiga they just went opposite way, demos may reside
on HD now. Would be unhandy to play diskjockey with the new 3mb demos...
Some even keep multitasking alive.
Please tell me I understood wrong, I don't get the idea, or is it
beeing bored...
> "new" idea grew (which DemoOS never did), then it would be practical to
> start writing new MBR's and "new" file systems, and then talking about a
> "Demo/Game" partition to our HD's.
why you need a new filesystem for demos ?
what's the boot sector talk about...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
fisc...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Juergen "Rally" Fischer) =:)
http://www.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/~fischerj/
^- dont forget this char
Matthias Buelow
Richard James (ar...@spuddy.mew.co.uk) wrote:
: BTW: The only bit of DemoOS I have seen was an early version of the
: BootCode, which basically just shoved the PC straight into PMode!!!
How come that you got hold of the un-released DemOS source?
--
--token
Rene Kemp
fisc...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Juergen "Rally" Fischer) wrote:
>Richard James (ar...@spuddy.mew.co.uk) wrote:
>
>> By doing it that way another DOS program could also be written to run the
>> demo under DOS or even Linux as well (best of both worlds!). If this
>
>So you suggest to load demos from floppy ?
>Curious, on the Amiga they just went opposite way, demos may reside
>on HD now. Would be unhandy to play diskjockey with the new 3mb demos...
>Some even keep multitasking alive.
Don't compare PC to AMIGA .. the amiga started it's demo-scene on
floppy rite? Now most amiga demo's can be started from HardDisk.
Ok then..the PC started using demo's that run from Harddisk and NOW I
(we?) would like to see some demo's that boot from floppy..
Why?
Well , just put the disk in your drive and start the demo without
changing your configuration (emm/himem/smartdrv whatever).
I know this is more work for the coders but..awhwell , it would be
very nice. I realy hope to see at least one PC demo that has it's own
boot-loader! Just to get that old-amiga feeling :)
---
In het vertrouwen dat mijn schrijven een positieve weerklank bij U zal vinden,
met gevoelens van de meest uiteenlopende achting, groet ik U,
Rene Kemp (ke...@worldonline.nl)
Mike Raiford
Eilon Lipton wrote:
> That's true, but wait a demo of max size 510 bytes (2 bytes at the end
> for boot-marker) you can't have SB/GUS/EMS/XMS/anything because there
> isn't any space to code that. 4KB intros are quite amazing, but cutting
> space down to 1/8th of that, will make it worse.
>
> Bye bye,
> Eilon Lipton /YOE
> AKA: Mad Man
One very important point, is you could have the boot loader read in the tracks of the floppy disk, then pass
control to what was loaded from the floppy. loading more from the floppy as needed. I kinda like the idea. I
have written a small boot loader before. Didn't do much, just a string in the boot sector, and a small amount
of code to copy it to video ram. :) I had limited success, was one of those 5 min programs. and Aside from
that, BIOS calls are still available w/o dos... all file access would have to be done through the BIOS, or by
doing direct DMA transfers off of the disk ... anyone have any ideas on how to do DMA from the floppy? :)
Just my $0.02
Mats A Knip
ke...@worldonline.nl (Rene Kemp) writes:
> Don't compare PC to AMIGA .. the amiga started it's demo-scene on
> floppy rite? Now most amiga demo's can be started from HardDisk.
> Ok then..the PC started using demo's that run from Harddisk and NOW I
> (we?) would like to see some demo's that boot from floppy..
> Why?
> Well , just put the disk in your drive and start the demo without
> changing your configuration (emm/himem/smartdrv whatever).
What a totally horrible idea. Demos on diskettes? Urgh. How about
demos on punchcards while we`re at it?
> I know this is more work for the coders but..awhwell , it would be
> very nice. I realy hope to see at least one PC demo that has it's own
> boot-loader! Just to get that old-amiga feeling :)
What is so nice about having 100 disks full of read errors lying
around gathering dust when you could just as well keep everything on
the HD and always have the demo available when you want to watch it
without restricting the demo to 1.4MB? This whole deal sounds really
fishy to me.
On the Amiga trackloading demos were abandoned a couple of years ago
because nobody wanted diskettes. Isn`t there a lesson to be learned
in there somewhere?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mats...@hut.fi http://www.hut.fi/~mknip/
Rene Kemp
Mats A Knip <mk...@lk-hp-24.hut.fi> wrote:
>On the Amiga trackloading demos were abandoned a couple of years ago
>because nobody wanted diskettes. Isn`t there a lesson to be learned
>in there somewhere?
I guess you missed my point completely..there has never been a demo on
floppy for the PC..I just would like to see a bootloader demo (on
floppy) without shitting with my config.sys or autoexec.bat.
Like just insert a floppy ..boot..and see the demo!
Right now I have to enable/disable emm/himem/SB-awe/GUS wathever to
start a demo.
Greetz,
Rene
Richard James
On 19 Dec 1996, Matthias Buelow wrote:
> Richard James (ar...@spuddy.mew.co.uk) wrote:
>
> : BTW: The only bit of DemoOS I have seen was an early version of the
> : BootCode, which basically just shoved the PC straight into PMode!!!
>
> How come that you got hold of the un-released DemOS source?
I didn't say I "HAD" the source, I just saw an "early version" of it.
Don't worry it isn't floating around the net to my knowledge.
Arjay
Eilon Lipton
Rene Kemp wrote:
>
> Mats A Knip <mk...@lk-hp-24.hut.fi> wrote:
>
> >On the Amiga trackloading demos were abandoned a couple of years ago
> >because nobody wanted diskettes. Isn`t there a lesson to be learned
> >in there somewhere?
>
> I guess you missed my point completely..there has never been a demo on
> floppy for the PC..I just would like to see a bootloader demo (on
> floppy) without shitting with my config.sys or autoexec.bat.
> Like just insert a floppy ..boot..and see the demo!
>
> Right now I have to enable/disable emm/himem/SB-awe/GUS wathever to
> start a demo.
That's true, but wait a demo of max size 510 bytes (2 bytes at the end
Juergen Rally Fischer
Rene Kemp (ke...@worldonline.nl) wrote:
> I guess you missed my point completely..there has never been a demo on
> floppy for the PC..I just would like to see a bootloader demo (on
> floppy) without shitting with my config.sys or autoexec.bat.
procedure practise of every DOS software ;)
can't that partially be avoided with envvars ? (soundcard detect etc)
> Like just insert a floppy ..boot..and see the demo!
>
> Right now I have to enable/disable emm/himem/SB-awe/GUS wathever to
> start a demo.
maybe agreing on one mem-driver would be cheaper than writing a
new OS ? ;)
Rene Kemp
Eilon Lipton <y...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>That's true, but wait a demo of max size 510 bytes (2 bytes at the end
>for boot-marker) you can't have SB/GUS/EMS/XMS/anything because there
>isn't any space to code that. 4KB intros are quite amazing, but cutting
>space down to 1/8th of that, will make it worse.
I didn't say it has to be a BOOT-demo..it has to have a boot-loader so
it can load the data from the floppy-disk.
A friend of mine has code something you could call a 'sony mini disk'.
You just had to boot from floppy and then a 1.44 mb sample was played
(from floppy) through gus/sb with oscilisopes on the screen (for about
2 minutes).
It was realy cool but he never release it.
>
>Bye bye,
> Eilon Lipton /YOE
> AKA: Mad Man
Greetz,
Zymotic
Eilon Lipton
Rene Kemp wrote:
>
> Eilon Lipton <y...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >That's true, but wait a demo of max size 510 bytes (2 bytes at the end
> >for boot-marker) you can't have SB/GUS/EMS/XMS/anything because there
> >isn't any space to code that. 4KB intros are quite amazing, but cutting
> >space down to 1/8th of that, will make it worse.
>
> I didn't say it has to be a BOOT-demo..it has to have a boot-loader so
> it can load the data from the floppy-disk.
except that from a floppy it would take a minute or so to load, and max
1440KB?
Why not just use C/C++/Pascal/ASM to code a demo?
One could make a VERY simple boot loader that loads from sector 1 to
2879 to lets say memory at 0000:0400 and starts execution right there?
That boot-loader could be used by anybody, and I guess to sum it up, I
just said the long version of Operating System.
Jim Leonard
In article <kae3ex0...@lk-hp-24.hut.fi>,
>demos on punchcards while we`re at it?
You're missing the point... If a demo fits on a diskette, *and* it
kicks ass, then it's a better demo than most.
>> I know this is more work for the coders but..awhwell , it would be
>> very nice. I realy hope to see at least one PC demo that has it's own
>> boot-loader! Just to get that old-amiga feeling :)
>
>What is so nice about having 100 disks full of read errors lying
>around gathering dust when you could just as well keep everything on
>the HD and always have the demo available when you want to watch it
>without restricting the demo to 1.4MB? This whole deal sounds really
>fishy to me.
Because if gives you freedom, and because it's *cool*. :-) If I
had the skill to write a demo with a custom bootloader, I'd do it
in a second. Think about it: No OS needed, no OS conflicts, you
can do WHATEVER YOU WANT with the machine without worrying about
anything. Nothing in memory to conflict with the demo, or suck up
RAM, or speed, etc.
>On the Amiga trackloading demos were abandoned a couple of years ago
>because nobody wanted diskettes. Isn`t there a lesson to be learned
>in there somewhere?
Wasn't there another reason for that? Wasn't trackloading demos
harder to make compatible with 020's and higher?
--
Jim Leonard Email: tri...@mcs.com
(Tricks of the Trade Digitizing Services, and also Trixter of Hornet)
*THE* PC Demo WWW page: http://www.cdrom.com/pub/demos/hornet/html/demos.html
Jim Leonard
In article <32C1B88B...@worldnet.att.net>,
Eilon Lipton <y...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>One could make a VERY simple boot loader that loads from sector 1 to
>2879 to lets say memory at 0000:0400 and starts execution right there?
>That boot-loader could be used by anybody, and I guess to sum it up, I
>just said the long version of Operating System.
You can do this already: "format a: /s ; copy con a:autoexec.bat; etc."
;-)
The Yadav's
Making a bootloader isn't that hard, I would be willing to write a
short tutourial if anyone would like one?
I have done one for the OS I'm working on (not DemOS...).
Maybe I'll actually finish it one day... :-)
Jim Leonard
In article <32CC0F...@onlink.net>, The Yadav's <ya...@onlink.net> wrote:
>Making a bootloader isn't that hard, I would be willing to write a
>short tutourial if anyone would like one?
I would very much like to see this! In fact, I think it would make
a neat article for DemoNews.
Tom Hammersley
I have source for a floppy bootloader on my webpage
(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~tomh). You'll need tasm+nasm to
assemble it. Notice that any disk you write the boot sector to will be
trashed. One disk I did it to apparently contained 16 gigabytes of
files. Apart from that, it works ok.
Daniel Kraft
Tachauch!
TYs> Making a bootloader isn't that hard, I would be willing to write a
TYs> short tutourial if anyone would like one?
ME ;) I killed 9 Disks by writing a new bootsector... they even won't
format anymore... So I'd be very interested...
TYs> I have done one for the OS I'm working on (not DemOS...).
TYs> Maybe I'll actually finish it one day... :-)
Tachnoch!
wigwam^RadicalRhythms^FmyB^DustBowl