14 HP 35s questions & answers
Joe Horn
Answered by Joe Horn
Note: For many in-depth articles about the new HP-35s, see the
upcoming July/August 2007 issue (V26 N4)of "Datafile" magazine,
available only in printed form, at http://hpcc.org
It's gonna be chock-full of HP 35s goodies available nowhere else.
-----
Q1. Does the HP 35s handle complex numbers as well as the HP-42S?
A1. Yes and no. The HP 35s displays them better (on one line, in your
choice of 3 available formats) but the 35s doesn't have as many
functions that operate on them. For example, you can raise a complex
number to the 0.5 power, but you can't use the square root function on
complex numbers... a strange limitation carried over from the HP 33s.
The 35s *can* do complex trig, but not complex inverse trig, nor
complex hyperbolics.
Example: The HP 35s can do this: 3i4 STO A 5i6 STO* A /, resulting in .
6393i0.0328 in the X register, and -9i38 in the A variable. Cool,
huh?
-----
Q2. Does the HP 35s easily shift between polar & rectangular display
modes?
A2. Yes. Rectangular mode displays 3+4i as your choice of "3+4i" or
"3i4", and polar mode displays it as "5[theta]53.1301023542". These
modes are in the DISPLAY menu; each mode takes at most 4 keystrokes to
activate. In RPN mode, the "3+4i" format is not offered since it's an
algebraic form.
-----
Q3. Can the HP 35s store complex numbers in registers?
A3. Yes. The HP 35s can store any complex number in any storage
register (registers A through Z, -27 through -32, 0 through 800, and
the stack registers and LASTx).
-----
Q4. How many steps can fit in the 35s's program memory? Or is the
programming artificially limited?
A4. Each ordinary program step takes 3 *bytes* (just like the HP 33s),
with equations being stored as literal untokenized strings (one byte
per character) plus some overhead for each equation. Therefore, an
otherwise empty HP 35s can hold up to 10,054 program steps (30192
available bytes, minus 30 that are always needed for the stack to
work, divided by 3). However, each "program" (A through Z and the
unlabeled one at the beginning of program memory) is artificially
limited to a maximum of 999 steps each. This is because of a
marvelous new feature: automatically renumbered line-GTO's and line-
XEQ's. You can branch to ANY line of any program from anywhere else
(e.g. GTO B053 means "Jump to line 53 in program B". And -- get a lod
out of this -- when you insert or delete program lines, ALL subsequent
branch commands get automatically renumbered! Is that cool or what?
Pressing the GTO key creates a prompt that looks like this: GTO _ _ _
_. You type the target program's letterer into the first space, and
the target line number into the remaining three spaces. If you just
want to go to the global label itself, you can press ENTER instead of
a line number, and it types 001 for you. It has that same well-
thought-out feel that the HP-41's prompts exuded.
-----
Q5. What do they mean by "800+ registers" vs the 27 registers on the
33s? Two-letter variable names plus the new indirect (J) register?
A5. This is all new so pay close attention. The main variables (A
through Z) are still only one letter long. There are no multi-letter
variables. However, these 26 variables are now numbered -1 (for A)
through -26 (for Z) for indirect addressing purposes, not 1 through 26
like in the HP 33s. The six statistics registers are numbered -27
through -32. IMPORTANT: There is NO SEPARATE INDIRECT REGISTER. The
indirect functions, called (I) and (J), use the ordinary I and J
variables. You store things into the ordinary variable I to control
what (I) points to. This is a huge break with the past. HP solved
the obvious problem of (I) overwriting I by renumbering all of the
variables to *negative* addresses, and creating an entirely new set of
"indirect registers" accessible only via (I) and (J), numbered 0
through a maximum of 800. These 801 registers do not correspond to
any variables, stack registers, or anything else. They are
dynamically created as needed, and can be dynamically returned to the
pool of main memory when no longer needed. There's no longer any need
for indirect loops to share memory with the named variables...
although you *can* do so if you want to.
-----
Q6. Is the HP 35s like the HP-25, combining multiple keystrokes into a
single program line?
A6. Effectively yes, but please note that the concept of "merged
keycodes" became obsolete with the advent of alphanumeric displays.
Program lines only show the name of the desired function, not all the
keystrokes that are pressed to access the function. For example, on
the HP 35s, pressing [left-shift][INTG][3] performs the RMDR
(Remainder) function. But in program mode, it is displayed simply as
RMDR, not as three keycodes.
-----
Q7. Is the HP 35s a graphing calculator?
A7. No, just a "scientific" calculator (hence the "s" in its name).
It has the same LCD as the HP 33s with improved readability.
-----
Q8. Does the keyboard feel as good as the HP-41's keyboard?
A8. Yes and no. It's just like the HP-41 in the feel of each
*keystroke*, BUT all the keys are much WIDER, leaving very little
space between the keys, and IN MY OPINION that makes the whole
experience feel quite different. It's a matter of personal taste. If
you prefer typewriter keys (with generous space between the keys) over
computer keyboards and pianos (whose keys are all crammed together
like tinned sardines), then you'll prefer the HP-41 keyboard over the
HP 35s keyboard. But if you are the sort of person who has a horror
of vacant space, and wonders why the HP-41 keyboard is mostly blank,
then you'll love the HP-35s keyboard which is much "busier".
If you main concern is how each *keystroke* feels, then I'm sure
you'll find that the HP-35s is proof that HP has rediscovered their
long-lost recipe for great calculator keyboards.
-----
Q9. Any bugs?
A9. Yes, but since they are trivial I doubt that there is any hurry to
remove them. For example, in STD mode, results are sometimes wider
than the display, forcing the user to press one key to see the entire
exponent. Another little bug: The reported ROM version is different
if the self-test passes or fails. And the "negative" annunciators in
the left margin of the LCD are never used. And the battery cover
rattles when the machine is shaken very hard. <guffaw> There are no
significant bugs that I'm aware of.
-----
Q10. Any easter eggs?
A10. Maybe. ;-)
-----
Q11. The HP 35s warmstarts in ALG mode, right?
A11. No. Like the HP 33s, its default mode is RPN.
-----
Q12. i hate those 4 directional keys... HP really needs to start
installing a Flush One button Joystick...???
A12. HP already tried that with the 4-way-arrow button on the HP 33s,
and got more complaints than kudos for their effort. Possibly the
concept is good but their implementation was poor. If you believe
that to be the case, please explain what they did wrong, and how to do
it better, or they'll have very little incentive to take that chance
again.
-----
Q13. HP says "no other scientific calculator offers both ALG and RPN".
That's just NOT correct is it...???
A13. You're right: it's not correct. Somebody's head was mislocated
when they wrote that.
-----
Q14. When will it be formally announced?
A14. Right NOW (Thursday 12 July 2007).
-jkh-
curious.human
On Jul 12, 8:00 am, Joe Horn <joeh...@holyjoe.net> wrote:
> 14 posted questions about the HP 35s
> Answered by Joe Horn
>
> Note: For many in-depth articles about the new HP-35s, see the
> upcoming July/August 2007 issue (V26 N4)of "Datafile" magazine,
> available only in printed form, athttp://hpcc.org
Actually, the HP35S was announced within the last week when it
appeared on HP's website.
So much for your pathetic attempt at a scoop.
Now, please go and beg for membership money somewhere else.
Dave Boyd
> Pure unadulterated spam.
While Joe did advertise HPCC and the Datafile, and the original post
therefore qualifies as commercial, it can't be considered "Pure
unadulterated spam" because he included a lot of free content which was
probably eagerly read by many readers, including me. It's therefore
impure, adulterated spam.
It think top-posting is "worse" than what Joe did (not that I think
either thing is worth getting my knickers in a twist over).
> On Jul 12, 8:00 am, Joe Horn <joeh...@holyjoe.net> wrote:
>> 14 posted questions about the HP 35s
>> Answered by Joe Horn
>>
>> Note: For many in-depth articles about the new HP-35s, see the
>> upcoming July/August 2007 issue (V26 N4)of "Datafile" magazine,
>> available only in printed form, athttp://hpcc.org
>> It's gonna be chock-full of HP 35s goodies available nowhere else.
>>
>> -----
>> Q1. Does the HP 35s handle complex numbers as well as the HP-42S?
>>
>> A1. Yes and no. The HP 35s displays them better (on one line, in your
>> choice of 3 available formats) but the 35s doesn't have as many
>> functions that operate on them. For example, you can raise a complex
>> number to the 0.5 power, but you can't use the square root function on
>> complex numbers... a strange limitation carried over from the HP 33s.
>> The 35s *can* do complex trig, but not complex inverse trig, nor
>> complex hyperbolics.
<snip>
> Actually, the HP35S was announced within the last week when it
> appeared on HP's website.
> So much for your pathetic attempt at a scoop.
> Now, please go and beg for membership money somewhere else.
You, "curious.human" appear to have an axe to grind.
--
Dave Boyd
"That's sucker talk."
-- Raven, _This_Gun_For_Hire_, Universal, 1942
Damir
>
>Actually, the HP35S was announced within the last week when it
>appeared on HP's website.
>So much for your pathetic attempt at a scoop.
>Now, please go and beg for membership money somewhere else.
Well,you don't know what you are talking about.
curious-maybe
human-maybe
stupid-sure
johnv...@gmail.com
stumbled upon it when I was looking at the various learning modules,
and a buy now button was available. It doesn't look like they will
ship though until July 17th though if ordered today.
TranslucentAmoebae
Q12. i hate those 4 directional keys... HP really needs to start
installing a Flush One button Joystick...???
A12. HP already tried that with the 4-way-arrow button on the HP 33s,
and got more complaints than kudos for their effort. Possibly the
concept is good but their implementation was poor. If you believe
that to be the case, please explain what they did wrong, and how to
do
it better, or they'll have very little incentive to take that chance
again.
--------------------------
i was just the other day playing around on a game joystick at 'Best
Buy' and it had this cute little black button that was raised a little
above the surface, but ideally, i think that it could be flat flushed,
or even resessed a little and would move not only it 4 compass like
directions but with 360 degree sensativity...
Plus; you'd depress it a little, ( adjustable..??? ) to move it and
press harder to 'click' it...
The net effect here is that once your finger were on it, you would'n't
have to move your finger from left to right, up or down on the keypad,
as with the 33 or 9g, it would just 'wiggle' back and forth...???
Scott Chapin
"Joe Horn" <joe...@holyjoe.net> wrote in message
news:1184223601.6...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
<SNIP>
Is this really Joe? On 6-1 he said he was going on a 3 month vacation in the
mountains with "NO INTERNET".
Scott Chapin
ppeb
> Pure unadulterated spam.
[snip]
> Actually, the HP35S was announced within the last week when it
> appeared on HP's website.
> So much for your pathetic attempt at a scoop.
> Now, please go and beg for membership money somewhere else.
Well now, isn't that special? I have to ask, who the heck do you think
you are? And what have *you* contributed to this discussion? Joe Horn
has busted his backside for many years to contribute usefully to the
user community (ever hear of the Goodies Disks, for example?) for the
pure joy of doing so, asking nothing in return, and then some lame
brain like you who doesn't have the courage to use his real name posts
something as nasty and uncalled for as that.
Do us all a favor, don't post until you get a clue and some manners.
For one, I am deeply appreciative of Joe's contributions through the
years and hope others recognize his efforts and will try to do the
same, to help one another to make the most efficient use of their
machines.
Brian Walsh
Joe Horn
> > Q14. When will it be formally announced?
> > A14. Right NOW (Thursday 12 July 2007).
>
> Actually, the HP35S was announced within the last week when it
> appeared on HP's website.
I thought so too, but was asked by HP to wait until what THEY called
"the official announcement date" (today). They also said that there
is a difference between (a) "officially announcing" a product and (b)
putting it in their online store. I'm sorry to admit that I do not
comprehend the rationale behind that statement (if there IS any
rationale!) but since I agreed with HP not to say anything until HP's
*official* product announcement, that's what I did. Sorry if it
seemed to be claiming to be something that it wasn't. Today is in
fact the product announcement date for the HP 35s, according to HP,
not according to me.
> Pure unadulterated spam.
> So much for your pathetic attempt at a scoop.
> Now, please go and beg for membership money somewhere else.
Huh? I am not even a member of the London group, nor did they ask me
to mention them. I was privy to advance knowledge of their upcoming
issue's focus on the HP 35s, and was happy to share that information
with you. Not all sharing of knowledge is motivated by greed. This
one was motivated simply by my enthusiastic excitement over the New
HP's second great calculator (the 50g being the first).
-Joe-
"No good deed goes unpunished."
http://holyjoe.net/poetry/adams3.htm
Joe Horn
> i was just the other day playing around on a game joystick at 'Best
> Buy' and it had this cute little black button that was raised a little
> above the surface, but ideally, i think that it could be flat flushed,
> or even resessed a little and would move not only it 4 compass like
> directions but with 360 degree sensativity...
> Plus; you'd depress it a little, ( adjustable..??? ) to move it and
> press harder to 'click' it...
> The net effect here is that once your finger were on it, you would'n't
> have to move your finger from left to right, up or down on the keypad,
> as with the 33 or 9g, it would just 'wiggle' back and forth...???
That sounds nifty. My first thought is: Where should it be placed on a
handheld device? People who hold the calculator in one hand while
keying with the other hand would want the "joystick button" in the
middle of the machine, for the sake of balance. But people (like me)
who hold the machine in both hands, and use both thumbs to press the
keys, would prefer the "joystick button" to be close to one edge or
the other, for easy thumbing. Perhaps the location of the HP 33s's 4-
way cursor button would be a good place for it. In any case, I really
like the idea. I hope it isn't patented, and that it can be
implemented without putting a high drain on the batteries.
-Joe-
Joe Horn
> Is this really Joe? On 6-1 he said he was going on a 3 month vacation in the
> mountains with "NO INTERNET".
Now I know the name of my guardian angel. ;-) Yes, it's me, taking a
1-week vacation from my vacation. I return to The Hinterlands this
Saturday evening. I'll be able to reply to email and/or postings
until then. Thanks for asking!
-Joe-
FanJet
"Joe Horn" <joe...@holyjoe.net> wrote in message
news:1184223601.6...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Answered by Joe Horn
>
> Note: For many in-depth articles about the new HP-35s, see the
> upcoming July/August 2007 issue (V26 N4)of "Datafile" magazine,
> available only in printed form, at http://hpcc.org
> It's gonna be chock-full of HP 35s goodies available nowhere else.
<electron save snip>
This is just plain great! Almost the same feeling as when I read an article
by Dr. xxx xxx (can't remember the name) about the rational for the Hp-65
design. As I remember HP was surprised by all the user interest in
programming. They'd thought users would use programmability to add a few
new/overlooked first level key functions. No idea it'd take off like it did.
Actually, the first personal computer!
Thanks Joe!!
TW
> > Answered by Joe Horn
http://pssllc.com/mb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=346
I have posted some pictures of my new 35s and a few comments. The
only interesting thing I have that you haven't already seen is the
fabulous case. It is actually usable. A little strap holds in the
calculator while leaving all keys and screen visible. A little mesh
pocket for stuff is on the other half. You don't have to take the
calc out to use it. Very solid, very nice calculator. If you are
still concerned that HP calculators will never be what they were, this
unit will change your mind. The arrow keys, which some people have
done nothing but moan "ruin the whole thing". . . well you are just
wrong and get over it. They look and feel great.
TW
Paul Schlyter
Scott Chapin <rsch...@comcast.net> wrote:
Perhaps Joe posted from BITNET or through UUCP ? :-)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
Bob
"TW" <timwe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184306504....@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
So, Tim, from where did you get it?
Bob
Bruce Horrocks
> "curious.human" wrote:
[snip]
> Huh? I am not...
Dear all, not just Joe,
Please do not feed the troll.
Thanks.
--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
(bruce at scorecrow dot com)
TW
Well, last weekend while driving through Boise to go to my wife's
family reunion, I stopped at Cyrilles house. The window in the
babie's room was left ajar; it was like taking candy from a
baby. . . ;-)
My wife entered a video in that cacluator thing and we were one of the
8 finalists. We had the little awards ceremony last night and the
"gift box" they gave us had one.
TW
Wayne Brown
It doesn't matter how often you say it. The cursor keys *do* ruin it, and
no matter how they "feel," they look *horrible* and no other conceivable
feature could compensate for that. Without them, that calculator would
be great; with them, it is absolutely and irredeemably unacceptable.
--
Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.")
from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Bob
Tim,
We all hate you.
I'll give you $35 for it. That's a fair deal for a used calculator. You'll
never get another offer like this one.
Bob
Jake Schwartz
> The arrow keys, which some people have
> done nothing but moan "ruin the whole thing". . . well you are just
> wrong and get over it. They look and feel great.
>
> TW
Hi,
Remember when the hp49g came out and suddenly the hp48's big ENTER key
was shrunk and relegated to the lower righthand corner of the
keyboard? I was told that this was a concession to the algebraic
users. That was a significant error in my opinion. Somehow it wasn't
recognized as such until the 35s which corrects this for the first
time since 1999.
Remember when the hp33s came out and suddenly the clever way the 32s
and 32sII allowed the LCD to be used as soft-key menu labels (and thus
kept menu choices incredibly simple, like all the other Pioneer
models) was gone? I don't know why this change was made, but again, it
is a significant error in my opinion. Unfortunately, the 35s fails to
correct this mistake. While the 49 and 50 have the arrow keys, they
were smart enough to leave the top row of keys intact so it could map
to the LCD. Why this wasn't fixed on the 35s other than it being
simpler to leave the the 33s firmware (which was a starting point for
the 35s) alone still mystifies me. I guess this was considered a low
priority. To me, it represents a step backward in the user interface.
Jake Schwartz
Scott Chapin
LOL, having withdrawals are you? Have fun upon your return to your vacation!
Scott Chapin
Bruce Horrocks
> My wife entered a video in that cacluator thing and we were one of the
> 8 finalists. We had the little awards ceremony last night and the
> "gift box" they gave us had one.
Did she tell you that she had sent in the tape from the kitchen security
camera before or after it won? (That is what happens normally in your
house, isn't it?)
;-)
Joe Horn
> Remember when the hp33s came out and suddenly the clever way the 32s
> and 32sII allowed the LCD to be used as soft-key menu labels (and thus
> kept menu choices incredibly simple, like all the other Pioneer
> models) was gone? I don't know why this change was made, but again, it
> is a significant error in my opinion. Unfortunately, the 35s fails to
> correct this mistake. While the 49 and 50 have the arrow keys, they
> were smart enough to leave the top row of keys intact so it could map
> to the LCD. Why this wasn't fixed on the 35s other than it being
> simpler to leave the the 33s firmware (which was a starting point for
> the 35s) alone still mystifies me.
Please note that they DID fix it in one respect: unlike the 33s, the
35s lets you execute ANY item in a menu by pressing its corresponding
number, EVEN IF IT ISN'T IN THE DISPLAY, thus making it unnecessary to
flip through multiple menu pages or shove the cursor around with the
arrow keys. If you want the 9th menu item, even if it is on a "page"
of the menu that isn't showing, just press the 9 key, and *blammo* it
is immediately executed. For menu items 10 through 19, you press [.]
and then the second digit. That makes all menu items 1 through 9
executable in ONE keystroke, and 10 through 19 in at most two
keystrokes. That's FEWER keystrokes than even the "soft-key menu
label" system you refer to.
Less importantly, but still important in my mind, is the way that this
"numeric shortcut" access to menu items lets your fingers stay down by
the number keys where they spend most of their time anyway. On the
33SII and similar machines, *all* menu items required you to jump to
the top row of keys. Not a big deal, of course, but I really like the
efficient way the 35s minimizes finger travel. For example, Clear
Stack (which I use a lot) can executed by pressing [blue][backspace]
[5]. Although that's the same number of keystrokes as the 33SII, the
fingers are always around the digit keys. Some menus still require a
keystroke near the screen (to launch the menu itself) but then your
fingers (or thumb!) can return to the number keys right away. I
really like that keyboard efficiency.
Yes, it's not a big deal, but it shows that HP *was* aware of the
inefficiency of the newer menu system, and to my mind they fixed that
inefficiency. The 35s menu system is more efficient than the menu
systems of both the 33s and the 32SII.
None of that addresses the unsolvable problem of *personal preference*
for one or the other menu system, of course. I'd just like to state
for the record that the HP 35s menu system was well thought out, and
that some of us do in fact prefer the 35s menu system (but not the 33s
menu system) over the 32SII menu system.
-Joe-
Raymond Del Tondo
did you see the reincarnation of the 17bII(+) ,
with the same housing as the 35s,
but a straighter keyboard layout for the top right keys,
and the display capable of displaying the well-known menus?
Too bad they didn't use that display in the 35s
Even if the 35s doesn't correct all the mistakes
they made during the last decade,
it's a promising step into the right direction IMHO.
At least the worst mistake has been corrected:
The ENTER bar has returned to where it belongs:-)
Raymond
"Jake Schwartz" <ja...@magpage.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1184358281.2...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Tom Lake
> 35s lets you execute ANY item in a menu by pressing its corresponding
> number, EVEN IF IT ISN'T IN THE DISPLAY, thus making it unnecessary to
> flip through multiple menu pages or shove the cursor around with the
> arrow keys. If you want the 9th menu item, even if it is on a "page"
> of the menu that isn't showing, just press the 9 key, and *blammo* it
> is immediately executed. For menu items 10 through 19, you press [.]
> and then the second digit. That makes all menu items 1 through 9
> executable in ONE keystroke, and 10 through 19 in at most two
> keystrokes. That's FEWER keystrokes than even the "soft-key menu
> label" system you refer to.
I still wish they had included a row of dedicated function keys. Most of
my old HP (and TI for that matter) programs used them heavily for input
of variables and calculation of results.
Tom Lake
mjc
Right now (5:30 pm, pacific time, 7/14/07) it says "Coming soon":(
If it were available, I would order it (unless it were on hpcalc).
Joel Kolstad
news:1184358281.2...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Remember when the hp33s came out and suddenly the clever way the 32s
> and 32sII allowed the LCD to be used as soft-key menu labels (and thus
> kept menu choices incredibly simple, like all the other Pioneer
> models) was gone? I don't know why this change was made, but again, it
> is a significant error in my opinion.
Well, the upside of the 33s/35s method is that you get longer labels (the
32sII had only... 3 characters per key?), which is helpful for beginners. But
it was a step back in that it often requires an extra keystroke or so on the
33s to select a function relative to the 32sII method. Hence, the "expert
user-friendly" approach would have been to use a flag to select which method
you wanted to use -- verbose with extra keystrokes, or terse but more
efficient. Unfortunately, as you see in most companies today, "expert
friendly" software is decreasingly common.
> To me, it represents a step backward in the user interface.
It's a pretty good bet that the folks working on the 35s firmware never spent
any significant amount of time using the older HP calaculators and
understanding why the designs were done the way they were. It's a cycle...
old technology is re-invented quite routinely! Look at the Apple iPhone and
the Nokia N800... both are very interesting, useful devices with various
clever features, but the designers weren't familiar with a lot of the
interesting innovations of the old Apple Newton back in the 1990s, for
instance (see: http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/)
---Joel
TranslucentAmoebae
concerning batteries...
i've advocated to my stuffed animals in my room for many years that
all hand held devices should have a cradle that sits on a desk in your
home, and or office and while there, displays the time, and recharges
the battery, so that it's always ready, when you grab it... as for
taking it out of the case to put it in the cradle, it would be
resilient enough, like all cell phones, not to need a case.
As for the placement of the 'joy button' -- where the buttons are
would seem ok, but of course, the iphone is paving the way towards, no
buttons of any kind... a completely redefinable keyboard/display is
where HP should be moving...!
HP needs to start Inovating again...!!! Leading the way, and so on...