Uh oh...
rec...@btigate.com
HP may have a problem:
http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/89.htm
It seems that the TI89 will have the power of the TI92 in a case the size of
the HP48. Estimated price is $150, with 188K user memory and 384K flash
memory.
The "other" companies keep getting closer and closer to HP, and it looks like
this could really hurt.
Right now, RPN and quality of workmanship may be about the only things
keeping us with HP, so I sure hope that HP comes out with a new calculator.
See my posting from 1997/12/06 to see what I would like in a new calc,
although in DejaNews (oh do I hate it...) it looks a bit garbled.
Regards,
Eric Rechlin
Bismarck, ND, USA
rec...@btigate.com
http://rechlin.ml.org
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
rec...@btigate.com
J.B. Hemlock
rec...@btigate.com writes:
> HP may have a problem:
> http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/89.htm
>
> It seems that the TI89 will have the power of the TI92 in a case the size of
> the HP48. Estimated price is $150, with 188K user memory and 384K flash
> memory.
>
> The "other" companies keep getting closer and closer to HP, and it looks like
> this could really hurt.
>
> Right now, RPN and quality of workmanship may be about the only things
> keeping us with HP, so I sure hope that HP comes out with a new calculator.
> See my posting from 1997/12/06 to see what I would like in a new calc,
> although in DejaNews (oh do I hate it...) it looks a bit garbled.
Keep in mind that this is exactly the sort of thing which
keeps these wonderful calculators coming. The 48 *is* ten years old,
now, and if TI didn't come out with it's new fancy-hot machines, we
might not see a new HP for a long time...
Competition is good
--
Jim Anderson
bl...@accessone.com
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and C'thulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
Scott Guth
>HP may have a problem:
WOW! The TI89 looks great! (Speaking as a math instructor, that is...)
I wonder what the engineers will think!
Scott
Scott Guth -- http://www.mtsac.edu/~sguth
Mathematics Dept.
Mt. San Antonio College
Julien Meyer
Hello
Yes, today TI is seem to be a 'big' problem concerning HP calculators sales.. the
first in the place is the TI92.
But in the future, new TI models will be available: TI89 with an access to the
assembly language ...
HP think their Hp48 could stay for a while and beat TI .. Hahaha ! It's
impossible now!
WE NEED A NEW HP CALCULATOR NOW ! but as Hp make the best production, they
probably need more time to build their calculator than Texas Instrument..
TI have built th TI92 then the TI92 II etc ..
All in all, If Hp don't released their new calculator before June, then I buy a
TI92 !
Tchao,
Julien Meyer
rec...@btigate.com wrote:
> HP may have a problem:
> http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/89.htm
>
> It seems that the TI89 will have the power of the TI92 in a case the size of
> the HP48. Estimated price is $150, with 188K user memory and 384K flash
> memory.
>
> The "other" companies keep getting closer and closer to HP, and it looks like
> this could really hurt.
>
> Right now, RPN and quality of workmanship may be about the only things
> keeping us with HP, so I sure hope that HP comes out with a new calculator.
> See my posting from 1997/12/06 to see what I would like in a new calc,
> although in DejaNews (oh do I hate it...) it looks a bit garbled.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Rechlin
> Bismarck, ND, USA
> rec...@btigate.com
> http://rechlin.ml.org
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
--
Julien Meyer
XL Coding Ž Softwares SunHP'98
http://www.chez.com/sunhp
Ken Alverson
Scott Guth wrote in message ...
>>HP may have a problem:
>
>
>
>I wonder what the engineers will think!
It's just a ti-92 turned on it's side - cut through all the hype and you'll
see. I prefer my gx over a ti-92, and it's not just because of the
shape...Only thing I envy is the fact they have more built in ram (and what
is this 384K flash rom stuff? Can you really use that for variables?
Wouldn't flash rom be slow for writing? I guess that would be sort of
equivalent of a covered port for the hp...)
Ken
Jacek Marchel
Scott Guth wrote:
>
> >HP may have a problem:
>
> WOW! The TI89 looks great! (Speaking as a math instructor, that is...)
>
> I wonder what the engineers will think!
>
Try TI92. It's same as TI89 except it's larger,
has bigger screen, QWERTY keyboard and geometry
application (useless for engineers). Now the answer.
I did tried TI92. Despite outstanding hardware and
outstanding algebra it looses to HP48 in practically
every numerical calculations in speed. Especially
matrix computations are 8 (EIGHT !!!) times slower.
I've also tried sums:
Sum(1/k,k,1,1000) (Sum of 1/k for k=1 to 1000 step 1)
TI92: 10 seconds
HP48: 14 seconds
But when I wrote program:
<< 0 1 1000 FOR K K INV + NEXT >> HP: 10 seconds
For TI92 same program:
Prgm()
Local S,K
0.->S
FOR K,1,1000
S+1./K->S
ENDFOR
DISP S
ENDPGM
TI92: 30 seconds
(Buy the way, 80 bit floating point on PentiumPro C++Builder
WindowsNT application is unmeasurable by human. The answer
is practically instant :-) )
Engineers are heavily dependent on numerical calculations.
HP48 still have an edge.
>
> Scott Guth -- http://www.mtsac.edu/~sguth
> Mathematics Dept.
> Mt. San Antonio College
With regards
Jacek Marchel
Ken Alverson wrote:
>
> Scott Guth wrote in message ...
> >
> >
> >WOW! The TI89 looks great! (Speaking as a math instructor, that is...)
> >
> >I wonder what the engineers will think!
>
> see. I prefer my gx over a ti-92, and it's not just because of the
> shape...Only thing I envy is the fact they have more built in ram (and what
> is this 384K flash rom stuff? Can you really use that for variables?
> Wouldn't flash rom be slow for writing? I guess that would be sort of
> equivalent of a covered port for the hp...)
The advantages of flash ROM are not in speed.
The advantage is, that you can create backup libraries
of your functions and data. But the main advantage is
that you can replace ROM with completely new OS downloaded
from TI Web site. Therefore one hardware might be useful
for the entire spectrum of specialists. For example
engineers might download OS with beefed up engineering
library and extremely fast numerical procedures,
mathematicians and other scientists might download OS
with beefed up symbolic algebra, business people might
turn that machine into spreadsheet, money management
calculator and you could even create personal
organizer etc... With possibility of backing up entire memory
on a PC you actually could have on your PC several OS
that you could load into calculator at the time when you
need specific functionality.
It's yet to be seen if TI will be able to create
interesting software and OS improvements that justifies
flash ROM. I remember all the hoopla about Pentium overdrive
sockets several years ago. Very small number of people
actually finded that functionality of PC usefull. Most of
the people I know simply bought newer machines.
>
> Ken
With regards
Clint Law
The 89 won't have the power of the current 92. it will have far more. It
will have advanced math software and improved graphing (including scrollable
3D graphing), and more memory. All of this for about $150.
rec...@btigate.com wrote in message <6efp1s$700$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>HP may have a problem:
Jacek Marchel
Clint Law wrote:
>
> The 89 won't have the power of the current 92. it will have far more. It
> will have advanced math software and improved graphing (including scrollable
> 3D graphing), and more memory. All of this for about $150.
>
Wait and see. Actually TI92 with plus module suppose to be
same advanced in math as TI89 (TI92 is already way better than HP48
in algebra).
If it would be only as fast in numerical calculations as HP48 is
for already 10 years ...
With regards.
Ken Alverson
Try Alg48 - makes the hp much better than a ti92 for algebra.
Ken
Michael C. Ferguson
Clint Law wrote in message <6ehlj3$f...@ns1.ccinet.net>...
>The 89 won't have the power of the current 92. it will have far more.
No, actually it will have less: the TI 89 does not come with the geometry
software in the '92. Granted, it is a small difference, though...
Michael C. Ferguson
Jacek Marchel
Ken Alverson wrote:
>
> Try Alg48 - makes the hp much better than a ti92 for algebra.
>
> Ken
Is the speed same as native HP algebra ?
If it is then it's useless gizmo.
By the way, I always hear "is much better" etc.
Can somebody give us some examples what Alg48 can do
that TI92 cannot in algebra ?
Besides, you can already download software written
by third parties for TI92 including algebra extensions.
Because TI92 is much better platform in hardware,
the software written for that calculator might easily
overcame all what HP48 can do.
With regards.
Ken Alverson
Download the pdf documentation for Alg48 - it speaks for itself. There is a
ton of examples. along with times listed throughout. Alg48 can simplify
and/or factor HUGE equations extremely quickly.
As for to the hardware performance, it has been shown that for computational
processes that are identical across calculators (summations, for one) run
about the same speed on hp vs. ti92.
JEEjohn
It seems that everybody is missing the fact that the TI-89
will have about 572 KB of memory **built-in**.
That is 188 KB of user-available memory
and 384 KB user data archive (think of Port Memory on the
HP48GX's).
Also ..... It's not due out until .... Fall 1998.
I think that's plenty of time for HP to come out with a TI killer !!!
John Edry
JEE...@aol.com
In article <350DC101...@eaglequest.com>, Jacek Marchel
John H Meyers
Say, we know that HP does not want to announce future products,
lest everyone stop buying the current products
(or other advantage to competitors, perhaps).
I wonder why TI seems to prefer the opposite:
here we see the TI89 announced, expecting availability
by the end of the year (however, specs and appearance may change :)
Some companies which habitually announce products far in advance of
when they will actually exist do not always seem to be
at the top of their field, or am I mistaken?
Advance product announcements are sometimes intended to slow down
a competitor instead; IBM used to do this with old "mainframe"
computers, until an anti-trust suit settlement which barred them
from advertising anything not ready for delivery.
I do recall working for some companies which never came out with the
announced products at all, come to think of it.
But anyway, it's nice of TI to tell HP what it's going to do.
If each company makes a similar-sized model with a flash ROM,
then perhaps each one will offer an emulator of the other,
and then we won't have to compare brands and features any longer :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
With best wishes from: John H Meyers <jhme...@mum.edu>
Larry Smith
J.B. Hemlock wrote:
> Keep in mind that this is exactly the sort of thing which
> keeps these wonderful calculators coming. The 48 *is* ten years old,
Traditionally, TI and HP have played the game in strict turns.
HP: HP-65.
TI: SR-52
HP: HP-67
TI: TI-59
HP: HP-41
TI: <choke>
TI was a long time responding to the '41, so long that "graphing"
calcs came along before they were quite ready with the TI-88,
which never made it to market (though advertising brochures were
printed up for it...see hpgene's page at
http://members.aol.com/hpgene/index.html
for a scanned image of it.
TI eventually responded with the TI-<mumble>, but the game was
never as fast an furious as before. The last moves are:
HP: HP-48
TI: TI-92
which was in many respects both better and worse - but which
did not significantly impact sales of the '48. If the new
calc does that, look for an HP response - but not before.
Why spend the money if you already have the market?
--
.-. .---..---. .---. .-..-. |Politics is the art of looking for
| |__ | | || |-< | |-< > / |trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing
`----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' |it and then misapplying the wrong
My opinions. Edit addr to reply|remedies. Groucho Marx
rse...@primenet.com
I just wanted to clarify something. The TI-92 PLUS module is scheduled to be
release imminently from what I understand. This will upgrade the TI-92 to the
level of the TI-89. The TI-89 is scheduled to be released in the Fall.
On another point, I am not fully convinced that the 48 series and the 89/92
series are necessarily designed to compete with each other. Each one has
certain weaknesses and certain strengths, but the intended audience is vastly
different. Moreover, release of new calculators tends to move in cycles. I'm
sure at any time both HP and TI have plans and designs for new calculators.
I'm sure they both review what is on the market, and what is likely to be on
the market in the future. I expect that HP will develop a replacement for the
48 series in the future, and I am certain that the HP audience will be
thrilled. Likewise, I am certain that TI will produce a calculator subsequent
to the release of the replacement for the 48 that will more than please the TI
audience.
The calculator market has to be a small market segment at least in dollar
terms as a percentage of the market for all of the products that they
produce. Therefore, although it may be a priority for calculator enthusiasts,
including those individuals for which it is a practical necessity, a new
calculator is probably not a priority for either company.
To an individual who prefers RPN, only RPN calculators will be satisfactory,
no matter what capabilities may exist on rival ALGEBRAIC calculators. For the
algebraic crowd, no RPN calculator will be satisfactory, no matter what its
capabilities may be otherwise. For most of us, it is the comfort level with
the calculator that is most important.
I take no sides in this argument except that I would like TI to add RPN so
that ALGEBRAIC vs. RPN is no longer an issue. I do believe that the TI
calculators handle the ALGEBRAIC notation better than the HP calculators. (I
am not referring to the symbolic manipulation. I am speaking of the TI-86 as
well as the TI-92 vs. the algebraic mode with the tick marks on the 48 series.
I believe that one of the reasons it is better is more experience with
algebraic calculators vs. HP. I expect that if TI adds RPN, it will never be
quite as good as HP for similar reasons.
Let me add 2 other notes. I have never used the 38G, so I am not familiar
with its ALGEBRAIC system. I thought that the ALGEBRAIC notation system used
in the HP-71B, that allowed stepping through intermediate results was
excellent. I don't really know why this hasn't been used subsequently by
either HP or TI. I suspect it is available through software on the 48.
(I use both HP and TI calculators frequently, and I like the 48 and the 92
despite their weaknesses.)
-----
In article <19980317033...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
Blake Garretson
I'm a hardcore HP fan and dedicated HP user, but the TI-89 looks
excellent. That much memory, all the symbolic capabilities of the
TI-92 PLUS, the high resolution screen to see the cool rotating 3-d
graphs, AND only $150??!?! If HP doesn't put out their next calc, I
WILL be buying one of these TI-89's in the fall. I'm willing to learn
a whole new system and programing language for all that fun stuff.
I'll miss the RPN of course, but what can I do?
Hurry up, HP, you're losing even the most loyal of us by dragging your
feet here...
-----------------------------------------------------
Blake T. Garretson
bgar...@eng.utoledo.edu
http://eng.utoledo.edu/~bgarrets
-----------------------------------------------------
Thomas Becker
... ok, the TI 89 looks better but afaik it has no clock nor sound
capabilities which makes it
unsuitable for a big field of applications (i admit these are no typical
calculator apps).
Thomas.
Micah J. Mabelitini
> HP may have a problem:
> http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/89.htm
>
> It seems that the TI89 will have the power of the TI92 in a case the size of
> the HP48. Estimated price is $150, with 188K user memory and 384K flash
> memory.
>
> The "other" companies keep getting closer and closer to HP, and it looks like
> this could really hurt.
>
> Right now, RPN and quality of workmanship may be about the only things
> keeping us with HP, so I sure hope that HP comes out with a new calculator.
> See my posting from 1997/12/06 to see what I would like in a new calc,
> although in DejaNews (oh do I hate it...) it looks a bit garbled.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Rechlin
> Bismarck, ND, USA
> rec...@btigate.com
> http://rechlin.ml.org
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
I wouldn't worry about TI. The 89 will just get HP all agitated and
they'll come out with a new TI-crusher. It will almost be undoubtedly be
backwards-compatable with the 48, but with more features and better
hardware. Personally, my only complaint with the 48 is the screen
resolution/size, which was the best on the market 10 years ago. The 48 is
an excellent machine and its legacy will never be stamped out by a flashy
new TI educational calc, no matter how badly they try to muscle in on the
engineering market. TI has released quite a few somewhat redundant models
since the 48, and HP is just now starting to slip.
Micah J. Mabelitini
Bruce Horrocks
JEEjohn wrote:
>
> It seems that everybody is missing the fact that the TI-89
> will have about 572 KB of memory **built-in**.
> That is 188 KB of user-available memory
> and 384 KB user data archive (think of Port Memory on the
> HP48GX's).
>
> Also ..... It's not due out until .... Fall 1998.
>
> I think that's plenty of time for HP to come out with a TI killer !!!
Sadly no. I understand that the Australian team started too late to be able to
have a new calc ready for Fall 98 (i.e. start of new school/college year).
Maybe by Christmas if things go okay.
Secondly, TI's web page is vague as to whether the 384Kb "data archive"
includes the built-in functions of the calc or not. As I see it there are two possibilities:
a) 188Kb RAM for working calculations and variables etc. plus 384Kb flash RAM
used for both the "data archive" *and* all of the built-in functions, or
b) 188Kb RAM as before plus an undisclosed amount of ROM for the built-in
functions plus 384Kb flash RAM for both the "data archive" and for *patches*
to the built-in functions in ROM - so that the built-in functions may be
upgraded with new versions over time as advertised.
I suspect that (a) is true, since they would surely shout louder if it were
the second, in which case the calc will almost certainly be less capable than
the 48GX which has 512K of ROM.
Regards,
--
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire
England
b...@granby.demon.co.uk
jak...@waterw.com
In article <3516FB18...@granby.demon.co.uk>,
Tom Ferrio of TI explained to me at the Consumer Electronics Show (in January
in Las Vegas) this exact situation with respect to the TI92 Plus Module.
Despite the fact that all the literature says 384K of flash for archive
storage and O.S. upgrades, there is actually 2 meg of flash in the product.
384K is for user archiving and the remaining 1.6-1.7 meg is the O.S. upgrade.
I would imagine that the same arrangement applies to the TI89 as well.
Jake Schwartz