49G+ recent versions' keyboard fixed now or not?
Ben
I've read about major problems and dissatisfaction with HP 49G+'s
keyboard. Is this fixed now with the latest versions or is it still a
problem?
On ebay there's this:
BRAND NEW HP 49G PLUS 49G+ CALCULATOR from HP Dealer
This auction is for a NEW VERSION with a serial number starting with
"CNA5" or later that has a better keyboard and bug fixes.
seller name: hpcalculatorscom seller's PayPal email:
ord...@samsoncables.com
Is the "better keyboard" better? Is "CNA5 or later" new enough if it is
fixed now? What's the general consensus on this?
Thanks, Ben.
Steen Schmidt
> Is the "better keyboard" better? Is "CNA5 or later" new enough if it
> is fixed now? What's the general consensus on this?
The serial number doesn't seem to be a defining quality - it seems
there are quite new units (newer than CNA515) that sport the old build
quality (older keyboard, rough paint job etc.).
I wouldn't buy a HP49G+ unles I had it in my hand first, in which case
I might be able to see if the unit was one of the better built ones or
(more likely) not. Alternatively i'd buy a unit from someone I'd know
to be able to destinguish between the different types of keyboards made
- I doubt any in that group work at samsoncables.
Regards
Steen
xEaGLe
its one of the old ones. But since that time they already used that
logo "new serial with new keyboard and bug fixes" LoL
nevertheless, my 49g+ never missed a key and still fine til today =]
Ben
xEaGLe <Gusta...@gmail.com> wrote:
xEaGLe,
Thanks for the info. Looks like it's lottery-like then, whether you get
a dysfunctional 49G+ or not :/
OK thanks, Ben.
Ben
<ssch...@nospam.dk> wrote:
Steen,
Thanks very much for your advice. The problem sounds pretty hit and
miss then. Some are problematic and some aren't and the only way to
tell is to try it. :/ Damn. And of course asking that seller I metioned
to try it would be a waste of time. Damn again.
Thanks again for your response, Ben.
Mark Kolesar
Hello,
I just got mine from them, serial number CNA525... I've only just
started playing with it, but I quickly noticed that on the arrow keys I
can get a click with no registration of the key. Pushing harder seems to
guarantee key registration, but with all the talk of keys breaking off,
that's not much comfort to me: The only way to ensure key registration
is to push hard on a fragile keyboard :( Have not upgraded the ROM yet.
Herve Chappe
Suggest upgrade to build 83 available from www.hpcalc.org, shouls solve
all keyboard issues...
Herve Chappe
Suggest upgrade to build 83 available from www.hpcalc.org, shouls solve
all keyboard issues...
Friend
I wouldn't say it fixes all keyboard issues. It does lessen the
frequency that doubles happen (they still do happen once in awhile,
though). Missed keystrokes happen frequently, especially with the
arrow keys! I have about a weeks worth of experience seeing this in
action now.
Thanks to the programmers who helped to reduce the number of doubles,
but there's more work that needs to be done before you could say it
was "fixed."
-DrD-
f4ding
about v83, which was made available, as far as I know, less than a week
ago, at hpcalc.org
Friend
v80 didn't help at all. I guess it's been only 3 days (ok, maybe even
2 days ago) not a full week. Sorry about that. Weekends are the
boundarys of my (de) mental idea of a week!
I have had several doubles on the arrow keys, not traceable to the
busy bug (as far as I could tell). I also had lots of missed
keystrokes, particularly on the arrow keys. I have had a couple of
doubles on my zero key as well. Ser CN4020 ...
-DrD-
Teddy Chiang
Ben wrote:
> BRAND NEW HP 49G PLUS 49G+ CALCULATOR from HP Dealer
> This auction is for a NEW VERSION with a serial number starting with
> "CNA5" or later that has a better keyboard and bug fixes.
Be aware that HP never admit 49g+ got keyboard quality issue. And never
announce keyboard quality issue, has been improved, on 49g+. And HP
doesn't guarantee the quality of this top-end calculator if the
warranty period of one year has been expried.
Although I'm going to buy my next 49g+ for it's good features and
power. But I'm not confident of the quality of it's keyboard.
Jean-Yves Avenard
> Suggest upgrade to build 83 available from www.hpcalc.org, shouls solve
> all keyboard issues...
I don't think that software can fix all the keyboard issues.
One problem with the keyboard is that the tactile feedback is not in
sync with what happens electrically.
What I mean is that you can get a click while pressing a keys, but it
will not register. there's a mismatch between what you feel and what you
can do.
Having said that, the 49g+ does allow you to type much faster than on a
TI89. With a TI89 you can't type more than one key at the same time
(press one, and two at the same time, only 1 (or 2) will register.
Jean-Yves
Friend
goes into the Forrest Gump mode on an hp49g+!
Chocolates, anyone?
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:33:21 +1100, Jean-Yves Avenard <m...@privacy.net>
wrote:
Nobody
Joe Horn
> press one and two at the same time and it
> goes into the Forrest Gump mode on an hp49g+!
"Nobody" replied:
> Its called n-key rollover and has gone the way of the dodo bird
If you're referring to the ability to press keys while other keys are
down, HP has had that for a long time (always, perhaps?), and still
does. Example: Press and hold down 1, then press and hold down 2, then
press and hold down 3. Release all, in any order. You get 123, as
expected. Yes, even on the hp49g+.
Were that not possible, the ON+A+F "three-finger salute" would not be
possible.
If you meant something else by "n-key rollover," please advise.
-jkh-
Disclaimer: I've given the hp49g+ the one-finger salute from time to
time.
Jack Land
C'mon you guys;
HP's *Selling* these things!
You know -
"H/P: The highest quality, most accurate, useful and well engineered
calculator on the planet." "When you don't want to go wrong, use HP"
Is that a crack-up or what ?
-like offering a Mc-Paste with fries at a fine restraunt.
Fine, I'd like to start this evening with a bound Manual.
Eric Smith
> Its called n-key rollover and has gone the way of the dodo bird
Joe Horn wrote:
> If you're referring to the ability to press keys while other keys are
> down, HP has had that for a long time (always, perhaps?), and still
> does. Example: Press and hold down 1, then press and hold down 2, then
> press and hold down 3. Release all, in any order. You get 123, as
> expected. Yes, even on the hp49g+.
HP hand calculators have NEVER had n-key rollover. They have 2-key
rollover. Some calculators can do some combinations of three keys. In
general with normal key switches, domes, membranes, etc, there's no way
to do more than 2-key rollover without adding a diode in series with every
key, which would add somewhere between $1.00 and $3.00 (depending on
layout issues) to the manufacturing cost of the calculator.
Most computer keyboards don't have n-key rollover either. For instance,
on the keyboard on which I'm currently typing, if I press in order (without
release) 'a', 's', then 'w', the 'w' key has no effect. Because there
is no standard for the internal wiring of the key matrix on a PC keyboard,
the exact rollover behavior may not match on a different keyboard.
The 1, 2, 3 example works correctly because 1, 2, and 3 all share one
electrical contact.
> Were that not possible, the ON+A+F "three-finger salute" would not be
> possible.
That works because ON and A share one contact, and A and F share the
other. When you press all three, it causes a phantom fourth key, but
it is ignored since it occurs in a matrix location that doesn't have
an actual switch.
The principle is the same as pressing CHS, 7, and 8 simultaneously
on the HP-45 to get a phantom press of the otherwise inaccessible
right half of the enter key. If the HP-45 had n-key rollover, the
trick wouldn't work.
Imagine this hypothetical key matrix (which doesn't match the HP-49G+
layout):
col 1 col 2 col 3
| | |
| | |
| | |
A | B | C |
_/ \_ | _/ \_ | _/ \_ |
| | |
o o--+ o o--+ o o--+
| | | | | |
rom 1 --------------+----------+----------+ |
| | |
| | |
| | |
D | E | F |
_/ \_ | _/ \_ | _/ \_ |
| | |
o o--+ o o--+ o o--+
| | | | | |
rom 2 --------------+----------+----------+ |
| | |
| | |
| | |
G | H | I |
_/ \_ | _/ \_ | _/ \_ |
| | |
o o--+ o o--+ o o--+
| | |
rom 3 --------------+----------+----------+
Imagine that you press (without release) the keys in the sequence
'A', 'B', 'D'. The series of events will be:
pressed keys electrical connectivity
------------ -------------------------------
none none
'A' row 1 and col 1
'A' and 'B' row 1, col 1, and col 2
'A', 'B', and 'D' row 1, row 2, col 1, and col 2
Suppose instead that you press 'A', 'B', then 'E':
'A', 'B', and 'E' row 1, row 2, col 1, and col 2
Note that the electrical result is the same whether the third key
pressed is 'D' or 'E'. Thus when the third key is pressed, the
processor has no way to know whether the new key press is 'D' or 'E',
because either would have the same effect. Any two keys pressed
simultaneously can be distinguished reliably, but any three cannot,
hence the term, "2 key rollover".
John H Meyers
> Example: Press and hold down 1, then press and hold down 2, then
> press and hold down 3. Release all, in any order. You get 123, as
> expected. Yes, even on the hp49g+.
Now try 1 3 6 or 2 3 6 :)
What's the worst case? (are there any 2-key failures?)
I consider it more important for real quality (and high speed)
typing keyboards, however, because on these calcs
(especially as they require high force,
and you need to watch to monitor what registers),
you have to go very slowly indeed.
"Unsafe at any speed" :)
[r->] [OFF]
Joe Horn
> Now try 1 3 6 or 2 3 6 :)
OMG! You're still teaching me things after all these years. Thanks!
> What's the worst case? (are there any 2-key failures?)
The worst case is the hp49g+, which often has 1-key failures! BWAH Hah
hah! <chortle> Ok, seriously John, I can't find any 2-key failures. Do
you know of any?
-jkh-
John H Meyers
if you are making a "crossbar" keyboard array
with direct connections (no diodes, resistors, etc.)
and if there are any two "horizontal" lines
and any two "vertical" lines which have actual keys
at each of the four crossings, and if you press and
keep holding down any two of these four keys already
and then press a third key down, you will at that moment
have all four lines simultaneously connected together,
making it impossible to discern which of the two remaining keys
was just added to the already-down set.
So you have to introduce some other element if you want to resolve
such ambiguities, such as adding more crossbar lines
until you can avoid any "four-way" situations like that,
or using diodes or resistors to help distinguish
which connections were actually made, etc.
Another poster sounds like a real keyboard engineer;
I didn't study his post, but pardon if this has
already been more than covered.
[r->] [OFF]
Brother-Peter
news:op.s1hr5...@news.cis.dfn.de...
X
> or using diodes or resistors to help distinguish
> which connections were actually made, etc.
>
> Another poster sounds like a real keyboard engineer;
> I didn't study his post, but pardon if this has
> already been more than covered.
I hope that HPW hires such a real keyboard engineer
with one job in mind: a new perfect calculator keyboard
that will last 10 years, 10 hours a week usage pattern
fbalzer
one. The keyboard misses some keys, but this is less annoying than the
"auto-repeat" function some of the keys show with build 50, build 80 or
build 83.
Frank.
Cyrille de Brébisson
>> or using diodes or resistors to help distinguish
>> which connections were actually made, etc.
>>
>> Another poster sounds like a real keyboard engineer;
>> I didn't study his post, but pardon if this has
>> already been more than covered.
>
> I hope that HPW hires such a real keyboard engineer
> with one job in mind: a new perfect calculator keyboard
> that will last 10 years, 10 hours a week usage pattern
Note, your PC keyboard is the same! it's a matrix and they are 3 keys
combinaisions on your PC keyboard (different in each brand of keyboard) that
will cause the same issue...
for example ESC F1 F6 does not wok on my PC keyboard (which makes it hard to
do a ON A F on EMU48, which is why I need to do ESC F1 F instead)....
note that the HP48 series had the same problem, but starting on the HP49,
the algorithm changed.
on the 48, the calculator would not register any key after the 2nd key,
while on the HP49, you can press much more keys at the same time, provided
that they do not cause a keyboard matrix square as described above. For
example, if you are in alpha mode, try Q R S T U simultaneously, they will
all register.
so, the HP49 series is an improvement above previous HP calculators in this
respect!
regards, cyrille
Brother-Peter
news:nMhmf.375$CJ7...@news.cpqcorp.net...
no sh*t, Cyrille!
BUT
the broken hinges is one problem: a different construct is needed
AND
the missed keys/douplepresses is also because of the design
There are only a few HW flaws:
1) keyboard durability & keypresses
2) clock
both of which are also a SW problem
I really hope that in the future
you will also have a real RS-232C controller in each top-model
Using bigger AA batteries could be a bonus
as they put more weight and thus give a sturdier feel
1*AA = 3*AAA in energy density and NiMH AA's are much cheaper
SW: Please, please make the CAS save the User flags
the change the modes internally then Restore the User Flags
ALSO
the solver etc.. should not demand to purge a user variable first
Clock/Alarms are not working
etc...
You have a lot of work to do
BUT
I'm still hoping for a new 49g++, 39g++, 48GIII
with RS-232 & big batteries and...a totally new keyboard
Thank you!
Steen Schmidt
> The "best" ROM for my HP49G+ is still the very first
> one.
Surely not v1.22? It had severe power drain issues.
Regards
Steen
Brother-Peter
news:xn0easi1...@news.tele.dk...
Perhaps his best was Build 50 ?
f4ding
machine, that was the pre-installed ROM, just like my machine when I
bought it.
fbalzer
Much, much better than build 50, 80 or 83.
Frank.