what's the best hw/sf solution to transfer program/datas from a PC to a C64
kamelito
I googled a lot to find what is the best solution to transfer a program
or datas from a PC (under XP) to a C64.
By best I mean easiest, meaning avoiding to have to install software on
the C64 (except if its a modified 64 kernal)
Some solutions I found ok are :
Retro Replay + SilverSurfer
Retro Replay + RRNet
MMC64
My question is, do I need to install software in the C64 in order to
transfer a program from the PC to the C64 for those solutions?
If I need to, does a modified C64 rom is already available so, I'll not
have to install it again if I do a reset or if the program crash the 64
?
Does the power cartridge work on the expansion port of the MMC64 ?
Do you've others solutions maybe better, surely cheaper to do that job
?
Thanks
Regards,
Kamel
Six/Style
the files to a 1541.
Leif Bloomquist
"Six/Style" <s...@darkNOSPAMlordsofchaos.com> wrote in message
news:4e73c$44281c8c$48319e9b$21...@FUSE.NET...
> Probably the CHEAPEST way is to use a X1541 and Star Commander to write
> the files to a 1541.
Or cbm4win and the GUI, if you use Windows and don't want to reboot to
DOS...
http://www.jammingsignal.com/gui4cbm4win/
Six/Style
I use SC because I need the high retry rate (because I'm working with
20-year-old disks)
Leif Bloomquist
I had asked this a while back, and have now tried out various Windows PC/C64
transfer options. Here's a quick summary.
Star Commander and XE1541
-------------------------------
Pros: Tons of features, works with many file formats and inside D64/T64,
excellent documentation.
Cons: Requires rebooting to DOS so you lose long filenames, NTFS,
networking, etc.
Approximate Cost: $15 for XE1541 and $5 for the 1541. Possibly $10 for a
dedicated DOS computer.
cbm4win with GUI and XM1541
----------------------------------
(Disclaimer: I wrote the GUI)
Pros: Works within Windows, point+click. Copy single files or D64 images.
Cons: Can't edit D64s etc or copy single files from them. D64 copy is slow
(about 3 minutes)
Approximate Cost: $15 for XM1541 and $5 for the 1541.
CDROM and IDE64
----------------------
Pros: Ideal for mass transfer.
Cons: IDE64 doesn't work with D64s directly. Only works to transfer files
from the PC to the C64. IDE64 is pretty expensive.
Approximate Cost: ~$150 for IDE64 and $20 for a CD-ROM drive.
IDE64 PCLink
---------------
Pros: Server runs in Windows or Linux. You can copy files to/from the C64,
or just run directly off the PC hard drive. Perfect for cross-development.
Cons: IDE64 doesn't work with D64s directly. IDE64 is pretty expensive.
Approximate Cost: ~$150 for IDE64 and $10 for parts for the custom cable.
WarpCopy64
---------------
Pros: Blindingly fast. Read a D64 in 22 seconds. Read/write individual
files. Uses Ethernet for maximum 1337ness.
Cons: Write is very slow on NTSC systems. RR and RR-Net are expensive.
Sometimes flaky.
Approximate Cost: 100 Euros
MMC64
---------
(Disclaimer, I don't own one, so this is based on online reviews)
Pros: Super easy to organize and write files with your PC.
Cons: Read only, no multi-file or direct D64 support.
Approximate Cost: 50 Euros
Null Modem with Terminal Programs
-------------------------------------
Pros: Well established method.
Cons: Can be slow depending on serial interface. Tedious copying multiple
files.
Approximate cost: $50 for a Turbo232, (can sometimes be found cheaper used),
$5 for null modem cable.
Raymond Day
http://www.cmdrkey.com/cbm/prodinfo/cmdut.html
Just save to a IBM formatted 1.44 MB floppy
I use my FD-4000 to read the IBM floppy. I am sure the FD-2000 would work
too. I am not sure if a 1581 will work.
It can copy them to a ramlink or CMD hard drive. Very easy and fast.
-Raymond Day
kamelito
any program on the C64 side, avoiding the fact to lauch everytime you
reboot the 64 ?
Sometthing like builtin transfer into the 64 rom or available in Retro
Replay ROM etc ?
Thanks
Kamel
Dave
files direct to a 1541 drive and vice/versa...
or 64HDD from Nick Coplin... makes your PC a drive for the 64,
inexpensive and works VERY WELL!
Michel Oosterbeek
... as for the powercartridge, I tried it, but unfortunately this does
not go well with the MMC64.
Michel
Leif Bloomquist
"kamelito" <kame...@ifrance.com> wrote in message
news:1143483648.7...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What do you want to do exactly?
It's not clear to me because most of the transfer options (Star Commander,
cbm4whatever, etc) don't involve a C64 at all, the drive is hooked directly
to your PC.
Even with the Retro Replay ROM and WarpCopy you still need to launch a
program on the C64, the main difference is that you can do so remotely from
the PC.
Maybe 64HDD is what you want? This doesn't let you "transfer" anything, but
you can use your DOS PC as a hard drive for your C64. It doesn't need any
program on the C64 side (but it sure helps)
Regards,
Leif
kamelito
I don't want to use my 1541.
I then want to transfer games/demo or program I wrote on the PC using a
crossassembler.
I want to switch on the 64 and send the program directly into the C64
without having to load any transfer program in the C64.
I assume then that I must have such transfer program located in the 64,
but I prefer to have it in ROM, being a modified 64 ROM or for example
having such program in the retro replay.
I hope I'm clear :)
Regards
Kamel
kamelito
http://www.paradroid.net/serslave/
If MagerValp is reading this there's a part where I need more info :
>Burn a new kernal ROM
>By removing the kernal RS-232 routines you free up enough space to fit the Serial >Slave driver in ROM. This way the driver will always be available and won't risk being >overwritten. All software that uses the kernal routines for loading and saving should >work. The obvious drawback is that you need an EPROM burner and possibly an >EPROM -> ROM adapter.
Do you have such modified Kernal Rom?, I've to told you that I don't
have the necessary material to burn such Ep^rom, and I do'nt know what
you mean by "possibly an Eprom-> Rom Adapter". (is this in case the 64
Rom is soldered?)
Is it possible for you to provide the modified Eprom ?
It seems that the software is dated from 2002, any new version planned
?
Regards
Kamel
silverdr
>>Probably the CHEAPEST way is to use a X1541 and Star Commander to write
>>the files to a 1541.
>
>
> Or cbm4win and the GUI, if you use Windows and don't want to reboot to
> DOS...
Or cbm4linux if you use Linux and don't want to (or can't) reboot to
either DOS or Windows...
Simon Scott
> What I'm looking for is a way to connect my C64 to my PC.
> I don't want to use my 1541.
64HDD? www.64hdd.com (if its up, it wasnt yesterday).
Six/Style
> I had asked this a while back, and have now tried out various Windows PC/C64
> transfer options. Here's a quick summary.
>
> cbm4win with GUI and XM1541
> ----------------------------------
> (Disclaimer: I wrote the GUI)
> Pros: Works within Windows, point+click. Copy single files or D64 images.
> Cons: Can't edit D64s etc or copy single files from them. D64 copy is slow
> (about 3 minutes)
> Approximate Cost: $15 for XM1541 and $5 for the 1541.
Do you mess with CBM4Linux at all, and if so, could I impose on you for
some help getting my rig set up?
billdeg
easiest:
set up C128 with 1581 drive as drive 9, 1571 as drive 8.
load on drive 9 wcopy+ utility by CMD.
insert a 720K, DOS-formatted diskette containing Commodore programs
downloaded from the internet (or wherever) and stripped off the .prg
extensions. Remember to keep the long file names.
copy the files to 1571 drive using utility. With this program a 720 K
DOS-formatted diskette can be read by the 1581 drive using wcopy+ AND
copy these files to a 1571 drive (maybe also a 1541)
I also have the transfer cable, but it's a pain in the butt a little to
use. wcopy+ is part of a suite of programs sold by CMD. The hard part
is getting a 1581 drive.
kamelito
should be able to write 1581 format then, I plug the disc to the 1581
connected to the 64 and that's about it.
Tough part of course is that I don't have a 1581 drive, I found someone
selling one, I ask for the price so will see...
Regards
Kamel
Simon Scott
> Do you mess with CBM4Linux at all, and if so, could I impose on you for
> some help getting my rig set up?
Its what I run.
What seems to be the problem?
hollowman
excellent solution for this, as the program for recieving on the c64 is
in the rom of the retro replay. Extremely convenient, but a bit
expensive if you dont have the hardware already. The rom image is
available here http://www.oxyron.de/html/freplay.html and theres a
guide for flashing here http://rrforum.ath.cx/viewtopic.php?t=30
kamelito
Thanks, I didn't knew about that the final replay ROM contained the
necessary code to connect the 64 to a PC via ethernet.
Sounds to me so far the best solution, but also a very expansive one (I
don't have the hw)
Too bad that imagetool and catweasel do not support 1581 drive.
I'm wondering what would happen if I wrote as a 1541 using a 2.5 disc,
maybe it will then be possible to read it using a 1581.
I'll wait a little to gather the money to buy a RRnet + RR.
Thanks to all for all your help!
Regards
Kamel
David Murray
assembling from my PC to my C= DTV. I have tried a variety of options.
What I'm using now, which works great, is a program called Omniflop.
You install it on a Windows 2000/XP machine and it allows it to read
and write to 1581 disks. It is supposed to work with any PC and any
floppy. There have been mixed results (mostly good) from people in the
group here. But it seems to be the fastest way to get data from one PC
to another.
There is a catch. Omniflop only reads and writes images. So I keep
Star Commmander on my harddrive too. I use it to dump files in and out
of a .D81 image. That takes about 10 seconds. Then Omniflop will read
or write the entire disk to/from a .D81 image in about 20-30 seconds.
So it takes me less than a minute (about 45 seconds) to get my newly
compiled code from my PC and loaded up to test on my DTV.
Of course, you do need a 1581 disk drive.
It would be cool if somebody re-wrote the kernal in the 1581 to make it
use FAT filesystem instead of CBM. THat would make things even easier.
Dave
Then 64HDD is perfect... You get their cartridge plugged into the C64,
then run a straight parallel cable to the PC. Fire up the software on
the PC, and the C64 see's the PC as a drive. You can compile/whatever
to your hearts content on the PC, move the files into the defined
shared directory on the PC so the C64 can see them and load/run like
you would for a normal drive.
silverdr
>>What I'm looking for is a way to connect my C64 to my PC.
>>I don't want to use my 1541.
>>I then want to transfer games/demo or program I wrote on the PC using a
>>crossassembler.
>>I want to switch on the 64 and send the program directly into the C64
>>without having to load any transfer program in the C64.
>>I assume then that I must have such transfer program located in the 64,
>>but I prefer to have it in ROM, being a modified 64 ROM or for example
>>having such program in the retro replay.
>
>
> Then 64HDD is perfect... You get their cartridge plugged into the C64,
> then run a straight parallel cable to the PC. Fire up the software on
> the PC, and the C64 see's the PC as a drive. You can compile/whatever
> to your hearts content on the PC, move the files into the defined
> shared directory on the PC so the C64 can see them and load/run like
> you would for a normal drive.
>
You probably meant IDE64? To my understanding 64HDD in fact emulates a
drive but as such doesn't require any extra software on the 64 side. It
requires DOS :-( and XE cable though. It is IDE64 that comes on a cart
and includes several transfer options: Xcable, parallel, serial... Also
- doesn't require DOS.
Sam Gillett
"David Murray" wrote ...
>
> It would be cool if somebody re-wrote the kernal in the 1581 to make it
> use FAT filesystem instead of CBM. THat would make things even easier.
I don't know if Tiny Yellow Brother has been tested on the DTV or not, but it
should work. With two drives connected you can copy files from a 720K FAT
disk in your 1581 drive to a CBM formatted disk in another drive. Don't know
if it would be any faster, but it would eliminate the need to jump through
the .d81 hoop.
--
Best regards,
Sam Gillett
Change is inevitable,
except from vending machines!
Kardon Coupé
flashed and the Ethernet adapter, Shift f5 runs codenet, so I just have
shift-lock down, and if the crossassemlbed code locks or doesn't work, a
simple reset and f5, and codenet is ready to receive again. On the laptop
I'm using Crimson Editor with c64asm, with CTRL+ALT+Z for assemble,
CTRL+ALT+X sends compiled source to WinVice running on the laptop, and
CTRL+ALT+C sends the compiles code down the RJ45 cable.
The whole setup is ideal for me, brings back the years when I was
crossdev'ing between a 128 and a 64. (Still got the original setup, just
need to re-wire the cable as it broke)
Anyways, just thought I'd chuck my tu-pence worth in.
Regards.
"David Murray" <adr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143554618.8...@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
-------------
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kamelito
Do you mind sharing your crimson editor config files ?
Any doc to setup up the all thing on the PC?
thanks
Regards
Kamel
David Murray
want to have two drives on my desk. I'm already short desk space as it
is. And I didn't like that I had to load a program on the C= side
everytime I wanted to transfer something. The omniflop solution works
much better. The D81 image isn't a hassle with Star Commander and it
takes less than 10 seconds to do.
kamelito
I meant Kardon, sorry.
Kamel
Kardon Coupé
email me at trooper_2002 [at] hotmail.com
change the [at] and remove the spaces after 2002 and before hotmail...
L8rs.
"kamelito" <kame...@ifrance.com> wrote in message
news:1143662590....@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Oops,
>
> I meant Kardon, sorry.
>
> Kamel
>
-------------
Nick @ 64HDD
> Dave wrote:
> > Then 64HDD is perfect... You get their cartridge plugged into the C64,
> > then run a straight parallel cable to the PC. Fire up the software on
> drive but as such doesn't require any extra software on the 64 side. It
64HDD also comes in a cartridge option. The simplest config is a XE1541
cable, and no C64 changes. A 50x improvement in load times can be had
with the cartridge or Kernal ROM upgrade. Some find the cartridge the
easiest way as they don't have to open their beloved C64 and the
Pwr/Link combines the interface with it all.
- Nick
Cameron Kaiser
>64HDD also comes in a cartridge option. The simplest config is a XE1541
>cable, and no C64 changes. A 50x improvement in load times can be had
>with the cartridge or Kernal ROM upgrade. Some find the cartridge the
>easiest way as they don't have to open their beloved C64 and the
>Pwr/Link combines the interface with it all.
Nick, does this cartridge work okay with an old X1541? I have an ancient
PC I keep around for this and I'd rather not have to spring for a new cable
(especially as the X1541 works fine -- slowly, but fine).
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **
Stephan Schmid
If you're intending to do it all on your C64 without modifying it, there
are two ways to go:
1. Warpcopy with the RR-Net/Retro Replay cartridge:
Retro Replay (RR) has to be flashed with the Final Replay ROM. RR-Net
gets connected to the RR. PC and RR-Net get connected via ethernet
cable. If you want to start transferring type CODENET on the C64. It
then waits to receive the server program. Start Warpcopy on your PC and
hit "send server", which transfers the server program from the PC to the
C64. Start transferring. Takes around 25 seconds per diskside.
2. MMC64 with latest BIOS and Kratznagels D64 writer plugin stored on
your SD/MMC card. When MMC64 starts up, navigate on the SD/MMC card to
the D64 of choice and hit RETURN. After confirming that you're really,
really sure that you want to start transferring the process starts.
Takes about 80 seconds per diskside.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Stephan
Nick @ 64HDD
The Turbo/XE cart should work fine - this is the serial speeder rather
than the parallel. You might find though that the PC may not be fast
enough to support the faster serial protocol. I have found a P100 is
good enough, but a 486 class will probably not be fast enough.
The Pwr/Cart or Pwr/Link is not PC speed sensitive as the handshaking
is fully synchronised. A 486 class machine will work, and the speed
improvement max's out with a P100 (unless you have a SuperCPU on the
C64 side).
- Nick
silverdr
> silverdr wrote:
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>>Then 64HDD is perfect... You get their cartridge plugged into the C64,
>>>then run a straight parallel cable to the PC. Fire up the software on
>>
>>You probably meant IDE64? To my understanding 64HDD in fact emulates a
>>drive but as such doesn't require any extra software on the 64 side. It
>
> 64HDD also comes in a cartridge option. The simplest config is a XE1541
> cable, and no C64 changes.
Yes. That's what I meant. You emulate the drive and therefore _require_
no extra software on the 64 side. That's why I think the previous post
could be misleading.
Cameron Kaiser
>The Turbo/XE cart should work fine - this is the serial speeder rather
>than the parallel. You might find though that the PC may not be fast
>enough to support the faster serial protocol. I have found a P100 is
>good enough, but a 486 class will probably not be fast enough.
It's an old 486DX @ 40MHz. Capable or not? (DOS 6.22.)
>The Pwr/Cart or Pwr/Link is not PC speed sensitive as the handshaking
>is fully synchronised. A 486 class machine will work, and the speed
>improvement max's out with a P100 (unless you have a SuperCPU on the
>C64 side).
How would this perform in the above circumstance? For the cartridge with the
read-only parallel port I assume no XE1541 is required in addition.
Nick @ 64HDD
A 486DX40 is probably no good. The Turbo/XE would have had to be
de-tuned to only a 4x improvement instead of the 8x.
The Pwr/Link has a DB25 connector that goes straight to the PC and has
the XE1541 circuit onboard. A cable goes from the cart to the serial
port (retains full compatibility for software which doesn't use the
kernal but its own compatible serial routines) and a passthrough port
for daisy chaining other serial bus devices.
http://www.64hdd.com/64hdd/64carts.html#
- Nick
kamelito
I made my choice, I'll go for a RR net and a retro replay, I know that
its expansive but as I need a cartridge this is the best option for me.
Regards
Kamel
Jurgen Haan
Also, there's so much more you can do with it :)
playing with contiki, flashing cartridges into your RR...
Fuun :)
-R-
silverdr
Not trying to change your decision (I also have one similar set) but I
actually didn't get why do you "need a cartridge"?
ramswell
Six/Style wrote:
> Probably the CHEAPEST way is to use a X1541 and Star Commander to write
> the files to a 1541.
Ummm, NOPE! I fooled around with it FOR DAYS until finally
acknowledging defeat at the hands of the XP System! I eventually called
Jim Farley to ask him how to work it (X-Cable/Star Commander) under Xp
and he VERY QUICKLY said ,' YOU CAN'T!" It will only work on NT, 2000,
or other variations of the MS Software.
STUPID of them considering that nearly "ALL OF US" HAVE XP! :(:(:(:(
Sorry for the bad news......:(:(:(:(
Charles (8-Bit Designs)
ramswell
LOLOL
Charles
ramswell
WITH IT! This is the very essence of what makes it so "GOSH DARN"
difficult to proceed with these types of transfers.
Thats why I just "TRY AT LEAST" deal with DIRECT/ORIGINAL COMMODORE
STUFF!
Nothings like an "ORIGINAL." ;););)
Charles
Pete Rittwage
Get or convert your cable to an XM or XA style and use cbm4win, which
works great under Windows XP.
-
Pete Rittwage
http://rittwage.com
C64 Preservation Project
http://c64preservation.com
Jesper
> acknowledging defeat at the hands of the XP System! I eventually called
> Jim Farley to ask him how to work it (X-Cable/Star Commander) under Xp
> and he VERY QUICKLY said ,' YOU CAN'T!" It will only work on NT, 2000,
> or other variations of the MS Software.
>
> STUPID of them considering that nearly "ALL OF US" HAVE XP! :(:(:(:(
>
>
> Sorry for the bad news......:(:(:(:(
As Pete said, XM1541 works great under Windows XP (and Linux). Since I
started using it, there's no need to mess around with anything else (for
transfering files or D64-images).
/ J
Simon Scott
> As Pete said, XM1541 works great under Windows XP (and Linux). Since I
> started using it, there's no need to mess around with anything else (for
> transfering files or D64-images).
>
> / J
I use XMP1541 and cbm4linux with a 1541-II and it rocks my socks
kamelito
Kamel
MagerValp
r> MMC 64 SUCKS because you can't "CREATE" D64 IMAGES DIRECTLY ONTO
r> DISK WITH IT!
Please stop writing with lots of caps, it's annoying. And the MMC64
doesn't suck, and it *can* create D64 images. Just to make it
perfectly clear: it can read from 1541 to MMC, and write from MMC to
1541.
--
___ . . . . . + . . o
_|___|_ + . + . + . Per Olofsson, arkadspelare
o-o . . . o + Mage...@cling.gu.se
- + + . http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/