Atari and T.O.S and S.T. : Tramiel perversion or something else ?...
chan Janin)
Many users, from all ages and tendencies, still wonder about it...
If the answer is "yes", is it purely a Tramiel megalomania phenomenon
(^_^) or is there another serious reason ?
If the answer is "no", can you give me the right reading of those
strange three letters ?
Ha, the last one : what about "ST" itself ? "Super Tramiel" ?... (^_^)
No friend of mine, even ST users themselves !, could reply me.
I tried myself to find a correlation between TOS/ST and Atari names,
and failed.
If Atari gave a full name to their STs,
instead of strange capitals only,
I wouldn't have had to ask you for it !
Thanks.
You can E-mail me if you want...
---> P-chan (just for info: I am an Amiga user)
Edd Deegan
>Just a question : does "TOS" really mean "Tramiel Op. Sys." or not ?
>Many users, from all ages and tendencies, still wonder about it...
>
The Operating System
>Ha, the last one : what about "ST" itself ? "Super Tramiel" ?... (^_^)
>
This ones EASY.
ST Stands for 'Sixteen Thirty-two'
This is because the 68000 is a 16-bit processor, but uses 32 bit
internal registers. The address bus is actually 32 bits wide, BUT the 68000
only uses 24 of them, hence the 4mbyte limit :-(
>
>Thanks.
>You can E-mail me if you want...
>
>---> P-chan (just for info: I am an Amiga user)
Nevermind: its amazing what they can do with plastics nowadays.....
Jerker Nilsson
[about the meaning of TOS]
>Popular belief is that it simply stands for
>
>The Operating System
Yes it is, but in the first ST-manuals (the one from 1985) it says TOS is
for Tramiel Operating System. A few years later (1987) when Atari released
the pre-blitter TOS, the manuals was changed (and much improved, but still
not very good). It said TOS is for The Operating System. To be honest, I
don't think that was the original meaning, but since Atari wrote it, I
suppouse they may change the name as they like...
BTW have you ever searched the ROM for the word "love"? Try it out, there
is some info you won't get about Dave Staugas else... (try case insensitive).
>>Ha, the last one : what about "ST" itself ? "Super Tramiel" ?... (^_^)
>>
>This ones EASY.
>
>ST Stands for 'Sixteen Thirty-two'
>This is because the 68000 is a 16-bit processor, but uses 32 bit
>internal registers. The address bus is actually 32 bits wide, BUT the 68000
>only uses 24 of them, hence the 4mbyte limit :-(
>
So true, but again this has been subject to change by Atari. At the time when
mr Tramiel got the boot from Commodore and bought Atari Corp. There was a lot
of rumors about the Jack'intosh (which when it finaly made it to the shelves
was called ST). The ST was then said to stand for Sam Tramiel (one of Jack's
childs I think). Again the attitude of Atari Corp. have changed since then.
/Jerker
- Jerker Nilsson, email d9...@efd.lth.se -
---- My opinion may change, but not the fact that I am right! ----
Insert own toughts here. The above is mine, and only mine!
Rick Tatem
>>Just a question : does "TOS" really mean "Tramiel Op. Sys." or not ?
>>Many users, from all ages and tendencies, still wonder about it...
>>
>Popular belief is that it simply stands for
>
>The Operating System
>
>>Ha, the last one : what about "ST" itself ? "Super Tramiel" ?... (^_^)
>>
>This ones EASY.
>
>ST Stands for 'Sixteen Thirty-two'
>This is because the 68000 is a 16-bit processor, but uses 32 bit
>internal registers. The address bus is actually 32 bits wide, BUT the 68000
>only uses 24 of them, hence the 4mbyte limit :-(
>
has) allows 2^24 different states, or __16MB__ of addressable memory!!!!
That is what I've tried to find out ... why is there a 4MB limit to an ST's
memory?? It is definitely _NOT_ the processor's fault. I'm currently
taking a class on MC68000 architecture and assembly language, and the
68000 can access up to 16 Megs!! Why can't the ST use it??!!
Hypothetical situation ... what if I had an STe (that uses SIMMs for
its RAM). If I had the bucks, why couldn't I use 4MB SIMMS rather than
256KB or 1MB SIMMS?? If I stuck in 4 4MB SIMMS, that would be 16MB of
RAM, within the designed capabilities of the 68000 CPU!
So the $68000 question is ... why can't the ST use it? Is it power?
Physical size? Some design flaw? I WANT TO KNOW!!!
Rick
----
Rick Tatem __-__ _
sno...@unx.sas.com =========@ ============ *#__===___
UNIX Support ___\\____ / /_ `'~~~~~~~~*#*--(0)---\
SAS Institute, Inc. \______________{ @* @
Carter Gregory
>ST Stands for 'Sixteen Thirty-two'
>This is because the 68000 is a 16-bit processor, but uses 32 bit
>internal registers. The address bus is actually 32 bits wide, BUT the 68000
>only uses 24 of them, hence the 4mbyte limit :-(
>
Well almost, the MMU is more of the problem than anything else.
In actuality, a Plain dough 68000 can access 2 to the power of 24 memory
locations...
NOT 4 megs but 16MEGS...Why Atari chode to do restrict the total addressing
range of the 68000 is beyond me. It certainly wouldn't have saved them
any money prodcution wise.
Thank God my Mega STE doesn't have this annyoing problem.
Stephen Wayne Miller
In article <1992Feb27.1...@lth.se> d9...@efd.lth.se (Jerker Nilsson) writes:
> BTW have you ever searched the ROM for the word "love"? Try it out, there
>is some info you won't get about Dave Staugas else... (try case insensitive).
Ehhh?? Wha' do it say??? I hain't got no ST (YET!!) and so I can't look fer
my own self. Post, please???
__
(_
__)teve
T R Hall
>Just a question : does "TOS" really mean "Tramiel Op. Sys." or not ?
Actually, it came from (although doesn't neccesarily mean)
"The Operating System"
>Ha, the last one : what about "ST" itself ? "Super Tramiel" ?... (^_^)
While Sam occasionally claims the initials are his, they came from:
"Sixteen Thirty-two",
as in a sixteen-bit external bus, thirty-two bit internal. Hence also:
"Thirty-two Thirty-two"
for the TT.
Marc Bouron
What's this about the Mega STe not having the 4Mb limit? Does it have a new
version of the MMU? If so, is it possible to fit this new MMU to any other
(older) STs?
[M][a][r][c] ===== Cray Research (UK) Ltd. =====
INTERNET: ma...@hemlock.cray.com
"If all the girls in Essex were laid JANET: M.Bo...@uk.co.cray
end-to-end, no-one would be in the UUCP: ...!uknet!crayuk!M.Bouron
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Gwyn Evans @ IME
In article <1992Feb27....@unx.sas.com>, sno...@egon.unx.sas.com
(Rick Tatem) writes:
>So the $68000 question is ... why can't the ST use it? Is it power?
>Physical size? Some design flaw? I WANT TO KNOW!!!
>
Rick, I believe that the 4Mb limit is imposed by the memory-management unit
(MMU) that's used in the ST. I _think_ that there have been h/w hacks to
bypass/replace this but I don't know any details.
Gwyn
--
+===== E-mail: eva...@uproar.enet.dec.com ====== Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK =====+
|Company: DESISCo - Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd|
|>> Above opinions are personal and do not necessarily reflect those of DEC <<|
+=============================================================================+
John Henders
>
>What's this about the Mega STe not having the 4Mb limit? Does it have a new
>version of the MMU? If so, is it possible to fit this new MMU to any other
>(older) STs?
>
it didb't work, no matter what he tried. Personally, I can't imagine it
slipping out without one press relase, or statement online from Atari.
It would have definately pussed my decicision to upgrade my mega to a
Mega STe. I deciced there wasn't enough significant improvements to
warrent the loss I'd have taken on my mega, but if I knew I could stuff
12 meg in there, I'd buy one tomorrow.
--
John Henders jhen...@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
Vancouver,BC or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders
Patrick Forsberg
(With a dumb program that doesn't know what TOS ver. one has)
If this isn't posssible could someone please tell me what adress it
is on a STe with TOS ver 1.62 (Swedish)
(How comes it isn't the same adress in all ST's ??)
/Patrick
--
Patrick Forsberg | EMAIL: d9f...@dtek.chalmers.se |
aka Mit,aka Ringo | d9f...@cd.chalmers.se |
Domenico De Vitto
'Traditional Operating System', but I have my doubts.
Domenico De Vitto
d...@uk.ac.bton.unix
Roger.S...@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
> In article <1992Feb27.1...@sun.pcl.ac.uk> va...@sun.pcl.ac.uk (Edd Deegan) writes:
> >In article <84...@v785.stanley.co.jp> ja...@v785.stanley.co.jp (Pascal "P-chan" Janin) writes:
> >>Just a question : does "TOS" really mean "Tramiel Op. Sys." or not ?
> >>Many users, from all ages and tendencies, still wonder about it...
> >>
>
> its RAM). If I had the bucks, why couldn't I use 4MB SIMMS rather than
> 256KB or 1MB SIMMS?? If I stuck in 4 4MB SIMMS, that would be 16MB of
> RAM, within the designed capabilities of the 68000 CPU!
>
> So the $68000 question is ... why can't the ST use it? Is it power?
> Physical size? Some design flaw? I WANT TO KNOW!!!
>
> Rick
> ----
> Rick Tatem __-__ _
> sno...@unx.sas.com =========@ ============ *#__===___
> UNIX Support ___\\____ / /_ `'~~~~~~~~*#*--(0)---\
> SAS Institute, Inc. \______________{ @* @
Lack of address lines to and from the MMU, but I did here of a German
hack that claims 12megs or some thing like that, the MMU is still used
to refresh the Rams, and with some other logic to switch the banks..
--
*** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.S...@bbs.actrix.gen.nz ***
*** 85 Donovan Rd * * GEnie. R.SHEPPARD5 ***
*** Kapiti At least I don't Flicker, ***
*** New Zealand.. * not like a dying light globe ***
Roger.S...@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
>
> NOT 4 megs but 16MEGS...Why Atari chode to do restrict the total addressing
> range of the 68000 is beyond me. It certainly wouldn't have saved them
> any money prodcution wise.
>
> Thank God my Mega STE doesn't have this annyoing problem.
>
> >>
> >>Thanks.
Ill think you will find that your Mega STE has the same 4 meg limit,
unless you are refering to the VME slot..
Uwe Seimet [Chemie]
>Is there an easy way of finding out the base adress of the TOS
>(With a dumb program that doesn't know what TOS ver. one has)
>If this isn't posssible could someone please tell me what adress it
>is on a STe with TOS ver 1.62 (Swedish)
>(How comes it isn't the same adress in all ST's ??)
Simply use the os var _sysbase. It points to the start of the os header.
********************************************************
* Uwe Seimet *
* sei...@rhrk.uni-kl.de *
* sei...@chemie.uni-kl.de *
*------------------------------------------------------*
* I hate this machine, I wish that they would sell it. *
* It doesn't do what I want but only what I tell it. *
* (Programmer's lament) *
********************************************************
Domenico De Vitto
programmer just can't bear not to see his emotions in hundreds of thousands of
ROMs !!!!!
Dom De Vitto
mj...@minster.york.ac.uk
It says "Dave StAuGas loves Bea Hablig"
I'm not sure that I've got the case of "Staugas" right -- it's a few years
since I found the message. The reason the case is mixed is because the
bytes that make up the string read like proper 68000 op-codes. If you looked
at them with a disassmbler you'd think they were legit. code. Perhaps that's
how Mr Staugas got the message into the ROM in the first place!
> (_
> __)teve
Mat
| Mathew Lodge | "What do they call you, boy?" "Kate." "Isn't |
| mj...@minster.york.ac.uk | that a bit of a girl's name?" "... it's |
| Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | short for 'Bob'" -- Blackadder II |
Michael Schwingen
[...]
>ST Stands for 'Sixteen Thirty-two'
>This is because the 68000 is a 16-bit processor, but uses 32 bit
>internal registers. The address bus is actually 32 bits wide, BUT the 68000
>only uses 24 of them, hence the 4mbyte limit :-(
You must be joking ! The 68000 uses 23 address lines plus Upper/Lower data
strobe and is therefore able to address 2^23 = 8 Mwords of memory - that is
16 MBytes. The 4MB limit is caused by the build-in MMU (and it can be circum-
vented - a friend of mine made an expansuion which allows 15.5 MB RAM in a
normal 1040/Mega ST).
cu
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Home: tornado!discworld!rinc...@urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
Maus: Michael Schwingen@AC3 IRC: Rincewind
Mike DeMetz
>In <1992Feb27.1...@sun.pcl.ac.uk>, Edd Deegan writes:
>[...]
>16 MBytes. The 4MB limit is caused by the build-in MMU (and it can be circum-
>vented - a friend of mine made an expansuion which allows 15.5 MB RAM in a
>normal 1040/Mega ST).
Is he making the information availible or selling a kit?