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Worth more dead then alive
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Rick
Apr 29, 2012, 12:55:01 PM4/29/12
to
Too many projects but still doing "the bucket list" thing. I did an 1802
system on a breadboard. Quest Super Elf was my first computer. The moving
finger writes; and, having writ, moves on. I down right love the 1802 but
having seen it run again I think I am happy and can put it away.
Still have a lot of other junk like a CP/M box, DEC PDT/150, Jupiter Ace, et
cetera that I want to have one last look at. All low priorities though.
Which brings me on topic. On a lark I decided to build a 6502 type
minimalist system. I have some oddball parts laying around, couple of 1050
boards I can get a RIOT, 6507, ROM. I have a 65816 I bought off eBay many
moons ago. Not sure which processor I want to use but since a minimal 6502
system needs some ROM and they all have the same instruction set, it really
doesn't matter.
Did a paper design with just a ROM at the top of memory and the only system
RAM from the RIOT with it mapped/mirrored something like a VCS2600. I
checked JAMECO and eBay just in case I decide to return to service the 1050
or VCS I was going to use for parts running w/o having to cannibalize my
home brew. Darn RIOT chips are going or $8-$14 plus shipping! I priced out
some of the stuff and to build a simple homebrew that you could actually use
would cost a small fortune. 6551 serial chips are just about as high. None
of this is bad so much as changed.
If you build an old school *functional* computer from scratch you would do
well to keep cost under $100. For that same $100 you could get an Android
tablet. You can get a CPLD for a couple of bucks that you could put all the
same functions on including a soft processor or a SOC with them already
there.
Just bought a Atmega16 this week
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270745443529?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3854wt_932
as an example for less then $17. Heck, serial, SPI, flash, RAM, ADC, PWM,
built in.
Rick
system on a breadboard. Quest Super Elf was my first computer. The moving
finger writes; and, having writ, moves on. I down right love the 1802 but
having seen it run again I think I am happy and can put it away.
Still have a lot of other junk like a CP/M box, DEC PDT/150, Jupiter Ace, et
cetera that I want to have one last look at. All low priorities though.
Which brings me on topic. On a lark I decided to build a 6502 type
minimalist system. I have some oddball parts laying around, couple of 1050
boards I can get a RIOT, 6507, ROM. I have a 65816 I bought off eBay many
moons ago. Not sure which processor I want to use but since a minimal 6502
system needs some ROM and they all have the same instruction set, it really
doesn't matter.
Did a paper design with just a ROM at the top of memory and the only system
RAM from the RIOT with it mapped/mirrored something like a VCS2600. I
checked JAMECO and eBay just in case I decide to return to service the 1050
or VCS I was going to use for parts running w/o having to cannibalize my
home brew. Darn RIOT chips are going or $8-$14 plus shipping! I priced out
some of the stuff and to build a simple homebrew that you could actually use
would cost a small fortune. 6551 serial chips are just about as high. None
of this is bad so much as changed.
If you build an old school *functional* computer from scratch you would do
well to keep cost under $100. For that same $100 you could get an Android
tablet. You can get a CPLD for a couple of bucks that you could put all the
same functions on including a soft processor or a SOC with them already
there.
Just bought a Atmega16 this week
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270745443529?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3854wt_932
as an example for less then $17. Heck, serial, SPI, flash, RAM, ADC, PWM,
built in.
Rick
Trevor
May 1, 2012, 3:57:52 PM5/1/12
to
Rick
May 1, 2012, 8:00:23 PM5/1/12
to
"Trevor" <trevor...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
news:jnpf9r$opc$3...@dont-email.me...
Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future
and a journey back into Linux.
I heard someone estimate the new product cycle in the Far East is 4 years.
It will overflow to stuff done in the Western World. If it's true then the
'good old days' like we had where:
1) Parent buys computer
2) Computer is manufactured and supported for decades
3) Child grows up in household and continues tradition for 2nd generation
30+ years of stuff like Atari and Spectrum computers.
There's real competition and innovation going on. I don't think it was that
long ago I was talking about my PMP being programmable and running at ~140
MHz. Just bought my 4th Windows mobile phone off fleabay for less then $20.
I'm giving them out to relatives like stocking stuffers at xmas. I got fed
up with br0k3ass3d friends and relatives complaining about [lack of digital
camera, can't post to craigslist, no email, ...] Something like 400 MHz ARM
processor with built in Wifi let's them sit at McDonalds and surf the
internet.
Android looks strong too. Active community of people hacking and supporting
the OS on everything from phones to tablets. $70 tablet and $10 USB keyboard
take care of most of the stuff people need. Tablets even come with built in
camera albeit a crappy one.
Right now it looks like some flavor of Android and ARM processor are going
to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect
looked unstoppable.
Rick
news:jnpf9r$opc$3...@dont-email.me...
Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future
and a journey back into Linux.
I heard someone estimate the new product cycle in the Far East is 4 years.
It will overflow to stuff done in the Western World. If it's true then the
'good old days' like we had where:
1) Parent buys computer
2) Computer is manufactured and supported for decades
3) Child grows up in household and continues tradition for 2nd generation
30+ years of stuff like Atari and Spectrum computers.
There's real competition and innovation going on. I don't think it was that
long ago I was talking about my PMP being programmable and running at ~140
MHz. Just bought my 4th Windows mobile phone off fleabay for less then $20.
I'm giving them out to relatives like stocking stuffers at xmas. I got fed
up with br0k3ass3d friends and relatives complaining about [lack of digital
camera, can't post to craigslist, no email, ...] Something like 400 MHz ARM
processor with built in Wifi let's them sit at McDonalds and surf the
internet.
Android looks strong too. Active community of people hacking and supporting
the OS on everything from phones to tablets. $70 tablet and $10 USB keyboard
take care of most of the stuff people need. Tablets even come with built in
camera albeit a crappy one.
Right now it looks like some flavor of Android and ARM processor are going
to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect
looked unstoppable.
Rick
Bill Kendrick
May 2, 2012, 1:07:22 AM5/2/12
to
Rick <ricortes at yahoo dot com> wrote:
> "Trevor" <trevor...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
> news:jnpf9r$opc$3...@dont-email.me...
> > Have you seen the Raspberry Pi?
> > http://www.raspberrypi.org/
> Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future
> and a journey back into Linux.
LOL! :)
> "Trevor" <trevor...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
> news:jnpf9r$opc$3...@dont-email.me...
> > Have you seen the Raspberry Pi?
> > http://www.raspberrypi.org/
> Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future
> and a journey back into Linux.
<snip>
> Right now it looks like some flavor of Android and ARM processor are going
> to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect
> looked unstoppable.
Yeah. I'm making no bets on anything these days. :)
> to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect
> looked unstoppable.
RIM was big. Now they're a joke. Launching fake protests
(paid protestors) outside Apple stores in Australia. Seriously?
Grasping for relevancy, I guess. (And all my cynicism comes as just
a bystander. :) )
--
-bill!
Sent from my computer
Rick
May 2, 2012, 11:33:55 AM5/2/12
to
"Bill Kendrick" <bi...@newbreedsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:4fa0c10a$0$16199$742e...@news.sonic.net...
There's just so many ways to separate me from my money!<grin>
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/545516201/Worldwide_smallest_smart_android_tv_box.html
The specs on that one match my desktop except for hard drive. My laptop has
it beat.
It's a confusing time and I am easily confused. I've heard VGA is at the end
of its product life. I've heard real modems are selling for ~$300 because
they are still used by POS for credit cards and electric transfers: No one
trusts the internet or wireless.
I don't think you can buy anything but a SATA hard drive and IDE controllers
are going the way of the dodo. Remember when there was something called a
Sound Blaster?
This type of info used to be good news for someone like me, living off the
sharp edge of technology, but now people are so hard up they are stealing
stuff just for recycling. I may pick up a few more LCD VGA monitors just for
fool'in.
I've been really dissatisfied with stock Atari video for a while. I've had
an insight that may be cheap and work. There's a couple of techniques people
have used for bank switching carts and some devices like the Covox. One is
to latch the address lines and the other is to set up a single latch like a
74LS374 in the memory map. There's shift registers like the 74LS165 that
were used in early video for things like the Timex Sinclair and even Bob
Woolley's 80 column mod. What I was thinking was the same signals that latch
cart banking could be used to latch data into a 74LS165 except instead of
doing it under processor control or via a separate video chip like a 6845 I
should be able to get the signals from ANTIC. Done this way everything will
be sync'd with the existing display and overlap w/o flicker. Antic will just
go through its reading 40 bytes per scan line which will load the shift
register with it's own RAM, Simple form would just be a the shift register
and an 8k RAM with enough glue logic to make it work. Shouldn't cost more
the $5 in parts.
Of course you could do something fancy, like use a 16 bit wide RAM and two 8
bit shift registers with a fast dot clock to get 640x200 but that would add
so much complexity I doubt if 1 in 1000 people could build it. Heck, I
couldn't build it. I was happy with the ST 320X200 in 16 colors for games. I
think I could be happy with and 8bit that throws 16k<8k system + 8k RAM> of
display up.
Rick
news:4fa0c10a$0$16199$742e...@news.sonic.net...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/545516201/Worldwide_smallest_smart_android_tv_box.html
The specs on that one match my desktop except for hard drive. My laptop has
it beat.
It's a confusing time and I am easily confused. I've heard VGA is at the end
of its product life. I've heard real modems are selling for ~$300 because
they are still used by POS for credit cards and electric transfers: No one
trusts the internet or wireless.
I don't think you can buy anything but a SATA hard drive and IDE controllers
are going the way of the dodo. Remember when there was something called a
Sound Blaster?
This type of info used to be good news for someone like me, living off the
sharp edge of technology, but now people are so hard up they are stealing
stuff just for recycling. I may pick up a few more LCD VGA monitors just for
fool'in.
I've been really dissatisfied with stock Atari video for a while. I've had
an insight that may be cheap and work. There's a couple of techniques people
have used for bank switching carts and some devices like the Covox. One is
to latch the address lines and the other is to set up a single latch like a
74LS374 in the memory map. There's shift registers like the 74LS165 that
were used in early video for things like the Timex Sinclair and even Bob
Woolley's 80 column mod. What I was thinking was the same signals that latch
cart banking could be used to latch data into a 74LS165 except instead of
doing it under processor control or via a separate video chip like a 6845 I
should be able to get the signals from ANTIC. Done this way everything will
be sync'd with the existing display and overlap w/o flicker. Antic will just
go through its reading 40 bytes per scan line which will load the shift
register with it's own RAM, Simple form would just be a the shift register
and an 8k RAM with enough glue logic to make it work. Shouldn't cost more
the $5 in parts.
Of course you could do something fancy, like use a 16 bit wide RAM and two 8
bit shift registers with a fast dot clock to get 640x200 but that would add
so much complexity I doubt if 1 in 1000 people could build it. Heck, I
couldn't build it. I was happy with the ST 320X200 in 16 colors for games. I
think I could be happy with and 8bit that throws 16k<8k system + 8k RAM> of
display up.
Rick
Trevor
Jun 4, 2012, 5:58:51 PM6/4/12
to
Have you been able to order your Pi yet? I finally made it up to the top
of the waiting list last week, but apparently even now that it's ordered
it's still a few weeks out on shipping.
- Trevor
of the waiting list last week, but apparently even now that it's ordered
it's still a few weeks out on shipping.
- Trevor
Rick
Jun 4, 2012, 7:23:08 PM6/4/12
to
news:jqjb4v$ogh$2...@dont-email.me...
schools in England, they will get priority over forgein sales. It isn't a
huge priority for me because of other projects competing for my time at that
momment. There are a few apps I would like to see on it, like running
AtariSIO for linux, but I have alternatives for now.
Rick
> Have you been able to order your Pi yet? I finally made it up to the top
> of the waiting list last week, but apparently even now that it's ordered
> it's still a few weeks out on shipping.
I haven't ordered it yet. I've heard that because it was intended for
> of the waiting list last week, but apparently even now that it's ordered
> it's still a few weeks out on shipping.
schools in England, they will get priority over forgein sales. It isn't a
huge priority for me because of other projects competing for my time at that
momment. There are a few apps I would like to see on it, like running
AtariSIO for linux, but I have alternatives for now.
Rick
Trevor
Jun 5, 2012, 10:39:48 AM6/5/12
to
I'm planning to use it to teach my kids about computers the way I
learned about them as a kid, 30 years ago. I almost wish it didn't come
pre-assembled.
- Trevor
learned about them as a kid, 30 years ago. I almost wish it didn't come
pre-assembled.
- Trevor
Rick
Jun 5, 2012, 5:47:52 PM6/5/12
to
Me too except grandkids<grin>. I think the Pi is targeted towards hackers
more so then as an educational computer for the time being.
more so then as an educational computer for now. It could end up being the
Swiss Army knife of computers. I certainly hope it evolves into the use the
designers envision. We have our own specific apps like AtariSIO that could
be compiled on the platform and be a low cost alternative to things like
SIO2SD.
When I was doing volenteer teaching work in Mt. View California, one of the
most popular programs was really low level robotics. The system they were
using was turn key: Preassembled kits and programming interface to computer
with easy to use programming language. About 1 in 10 students seemed to have
a genetic predisposition for things mechanical and it allowed them to let
out their inner geek. It would be nice if we could find another generation
that is more into hacking then watching tv and playing WoW.
Then there's other project in sore need of an update. One of my favorites is
http://www.megasquirt.info/ using an 8 MHz 68xxx derivative in that one and
it costs a small fortune.
more so then as an educational computer for the time being.
"Trevor" <trevor...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
news:jql5pq$38b$1...@dont-email.me...
> I'm planning to use it to teach my kids about computers the way I learned
> about them as a kid, 30 years ago. I almost wish it didn't come
> pre-assembled.
>
> - Trevor
Me too except grandkids<grin>. I think the Pi is targeted towards hackers
> about them as a kid, 30 years ago. I almost wish it didn't come
> pre-assembled.
>
> - Trevor
more so then as an educational computer for now. It could end up being the
Swiss Army knife of computers. I certainly hope it evolves into the use the
designers envision. We have our own specific apps like AtariSIO that could
be compiled on the platform and be a low cost alternative to things like
SIO2SD.
When I was doing volenteer teaching work in Mt. View California, one of the
most popular programs was really low level robotics. The system they were
using was turn key: Preassembled kits and programming interface to computer
with easy to use programming language. About 1 in 10 students seemed to have
a genetic predisposition for things mechanical and it allowed them to let
out their inner geek. It would be nice if we could find another generation
that is more into hacking then watching tv and playing WoW.
Then there's other project in sore need of an update. One of my favorites is
http://www.megasquirt.info/ using an 8 MHz 68xxx derivative in that one and
it costs a small fortune.
Clu
Jul 6, 2012, 5:15:25 PM7/6/12
to
Have to say from what I read of this it is all looking interesting.
Will keep tracking.
Doc Clu
Will keep tracking.
Doc Clu
Trevor
Jul 6, 2012, 7:09:56 PM7/6/12
to
Rick
Jul 8, 2012, 5:47:03 PM7/8/12
to
"Clu" <dr...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:jt7o02$o9l$3...@speranza.aioe.org...
in my hot little hand and there is 141 day lead time for it. If I ordered it
today I may get it in time for xmas. It was enough to make me hold off for a
while longer.
I guess it is good on a few levels, lots of people buying them + lots of
people hacking them.
Rick
news:jt7o02$o9l$3...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Have to say from what I read of this it is all looking interesting. Will
> keep tracking.
And now the bad news: I just checked a supplier while holding a credit card
> keep tracking.
in my hot little hand and there is 141 day lead time for it. If I ordered it
today I may get it in time for xmas. It was enough to make me hold off for a
while longer.
I guess it is good on a few levels, lots of people buying them + lots of
people hacking them.
Rick
Trevor
Jul 9, 2012, 12:12:04 PM7/9/12
to
I got on the waiting list (to order) in March, was notified I could
order in May, and it finally arrived last week. Are you at least on the
waiting list?
- Trevor
order in May, and it finally arrived last week. Are you at least on the
waiting list?
- Trevor
Rick
Jul 11, 2012, 12:43:36 AM7/11/12
to
Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they hold
your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from
Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
I'm kind of sensitive when it comes to being disappointed. I recently got
burned on the 6502.org site trying to buy a 65816 system. I think the guy
trying to sell me his died so he had a good excuse. I laughed, I cried, I
kissed my hundred bucks goodbye! I don't mind on line stuff, only been
burned maybe 8 times in the last 10 years. Heck, your right, it's only $35
and there's some action going on. I should at least get on the wait list
even if it costs me. I was looking at Python and it seems enough like
everything else 'structured programming' that I think I could pick it up.
BTW: There's a ton of knuckleheads on fleabay selling them for 3x their
original purchase price. I hope a bird shits on their heads!!!
I am in my 60s so now I calculate everything based on my chances of dying
before it gets here.<grin>
news:jtevtl$ltu$1...@dont-email.me...
your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from
Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
I'm kind of sensitive when it comes to being disappointed. I recently got
burned on the 6502.org site trying to buy a 65816 system. I think the guy
trying to sell me his died so he had a good excuse. I laughed, I cried, I
kissed my hundred bucks goodbye! I don't mind on line stuff, only been
burned maybe 8 times in the last 10 years. Heck, your right, it's only $35
and there's some action going on. I should at least get on the wait list
even if it costs me. I was looking at Python and it seems enough like
everything else 'structured programming' that I think I could pick it up.
BTW: There's a ton of knuckleheads on fleabay selling them for 3x their
original purchase price. I hope a bird shits on their heads!!!
I am in my 60s so now I calculate everything based on my chances of dying
before it gets here.<grin>
news:jtevtl$ltu$1...@dont-email.me...
Trevor
Jul 11, 2012, 11:21:44 AM7/11/12
to
There are 2 companies making them, I believe both are in England. It
doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my
special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then
received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been
shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain
Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront
for, it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year
old daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she
could do whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something
up. So it's serving its purpose. :)
doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my
special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then
received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been
shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain
Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront
for, it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year
old daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she
could do whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something
up. So it's serving its purpose. :)
Rick
Jul 11, 2012, 12:21:17 PM7/11/12
to
Expected Ship Date: 08/16/2012 Expected Ship Quantity: 1
Final Expected Ship Date: 08/16/2012
They dinged me pretty hard on shipping and tax. $47.78 out the door.
Apparently Newark is a division of Farnell now.
We'll see if their web site that said 141 days or their purchase order is
right. Five weeks wouldn't be so bad.
I saw where someone has already done a SNES port so it has enough horse
power to do anything I would ask of it. I'm maybe 80% sure I know where the
Colleen/Droid 800 code is screwing up. Gawd awful, I am going to have to set
up the tool chain and learn ARM assembler to make sure.
It does look like it could be a must have for an Atari hacker. Just about
everything else costs $100+ to do anything worth while. This should be a
Swiss Army Knife in that it could substitute for everything from being an
emulator to SIO2SD to ATR8000 to XEP80.
news:jtk5n6$tds$1...@dont-email.me...
Final Expected Ship Date: 08/16/2012
They dinged me pretty hard on shipping and tax. $47.78 out the door.
Apparently Newark is a division of Farnell now.
We'll see if their web site that said 141 days or their purchase order is
right. Five weeks wouldn't be so bad.
I saw where someone has already done a SNES port so it has enough horse
power to do anything I would ask of it. I'm maybe 80% sure I know where the
Colleen/Droid 800 code is screwing up. Gawd awful, I am going to have to set
up the tool chain and learn ARM assembler to make sure.
It does look like it could be a must have for an Atari hacker. Just about
everything else costs $100+ to do anything worth while. This should be a
Swiss Army Knife in that it could substitute for everything from being an
emulator to SIO2SD to ATR8000 to XEP80.
news:jtk5n6$tds$1...@dont-email.me...
> There are 2 companies making them, I believe both are in England. It
> doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my
> special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then
> received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been
> shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
>
> Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain
> Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront for,
> it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
>
> And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year old
> daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she could do
> whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something up. So it's
> serving its purpose. :)
>
> On 7/10/2012 10:43 PM, Rick wrote:
>> Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they hold
>> your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from
>> Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
<big snip>
> doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my
> special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then
> received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been
> shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
>
> Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain
> Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront for,
> it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
>
> And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year old
> daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she could do
> whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something up. So it's
> serving its purpose. :)
>
> On 7/10/2012 10:43 PM, Rick wrote:
>> Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they hold
>> your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from
>> Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
Trevor
Jul 11, 2012, 3:43:09 PM7/11/12
to
I see that it's being offered by US companies now as well:
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=Ntk:Primary|120626raso|3|,N:108&utm_source=seg&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=120626_raspi_invite_email
(Or perhaps you already knew that, and that's where you ordered from?)
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=Ntk:Primary|120626raso|3|,N:108&utm_source=seg&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=120626_raspi_invite_email
(Or perhaps you already knew that, and that's where you ordered from?)
Rick
Jul 12, 2012, 10:16:28 PM7/12/12
to
No, I checked out their price just now and total cost was about the same.
Purchased mine from Newark/Farnell so I think they will get it to me faster.
It would have been placed on back order for 3 months according to the web
site. I couldn't really start working on it sooner then that anyway. I've
been doing other stuff like building an electic bicycle for my 3 year old
grandson. I should do some more work on it right now.
Rick
news:jtkl1a$uku$1...@dont-email.me...
Purchased mine from Newark/Farnell so I think they will get it to me faster.
It would have been placed on back order for 3 months according to the web
site. I couldn't really start working on it sooner then that anyway. I've
been doing other stuff like building an electic bicycle for my 3 year old
grandson. I should do some more work on it right now.
Rick
news:jtkl1a$uku$1...@dont-email.me...
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