Too many projects but still doing "the bucket list" thing. I did an 1802 system on a breadboard. Quest Super Elf was my first computer. The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on. I down right love the 1802 but having seen it run again I think I am happy and can put it away.
Still have a lot of other junk like a CP/M box, DEC PDT/150, Jupiter Ace, et cetera that I want to have one last look at. All low priorities though.
Which brings me on topic. On a lark I decided to build a 6502 type minimalist system. I have some oddball parts laying around, couple of 1050 boards I can get a RIOT, 6507, ROM. I have a 65816 I bought off eBay many moons ago. Not sure which processor I want to use but since a minimal 6502 system needs some ROM and they all have the same instruction set, it really doesn't matter.
Did a paper design with just a ROM at the top of memory and the only system RAM from the RIOT with it mapped/mirrored something like a VCS2600. I checked JAMECO and eBay just in case I decide to return to service the 1050 or VCS I was going to use for parts running w/o having to cannibalize my home brew. Darn RIOT chips are going or $8-$14 plus shipping! I priced out some of the stuff and to build a simple homebrew that you could actually use would cost a small fortune. 6551 serial chips are just about as high. None of this is bad so much as changed.
If you build an old school *functional* computer from scratch you would do well to keep cost under $100. For that same $100 you could get an Android tablet. You can get a CPLD for a couple of bucks that you could put all the same functions on including a soft processor or a SOC with them already there.
> Too many projects but still doing "the bucket list" thing. I did an 1802
> system on a breadboard. Quest Super Elf was my first computer. The moving
> finger writes; and, having writ, moves on. I down right love the 1802 but
> having seen it run again I think I am happy and can put it away.
> Still have a lot of other junk like a CP/M box, DEC PDT/150, Jupiter Ace, et
> cetera that I want to have one last look at. All low priorities though.
> Which brings me on topic. On a lark I decided to build a 6502 type
> minimalist system. I have some oddball parts laying around, couple of 1050
> boards I can get a RIOT, 6507, ROM. I have a 65816 I bought off eBay many
> moons ago. Not sure which processor I want to use but since a minimal 6502
> system needs some ROM and they all have the same instruction set, it really
> doesn't matter.
> Did a paper design with just a ROM at the top of memory and the only system
> RAM from the RIOT with it mapped/mirrored something like a VCS2600. I
> checked JAMECO and eBay just in case I decide to return to service the 1050
> or VCS I was going to use for parts running w/o having to cannibalize my
> home brew. Darn RIOT chips are going or $8-$14 plus shipping! I priced out
> some of the stuff and to build a simple homebrew that you could actually use
> would cost a small fortune. 6551 serial chips are just about as high. None
> of this is bad so much as changed.
> If you build an old school *functional* computer from scratch you would do
> well to keep cost under $100. For that same $100 you could get an Android
> tablet. You can get a CPLD for a couple of bucks that you could put all the
> same functions on including a soft processor or a SOC with them already
> there.
Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future and a journey back into Linux.
I heard someone estimate the new product cycle in the Far East is 4 years. It will overflow to stuff done in the Western World. If it's true then the 'good old days' like we had where:
1) Parent buys computer
2) Computer is manufactured and supported for decades
3) Child grows up in household and continues tradition for 2nd generation
30+ years of stuff like Atari and Spectrum computers.
There's real competition and innovation going on. I don't think it was that long ago I was talking about my PMP being programmable and running at ~140 MHz. Just bought my 4th Windows mobile phone off fleabay for less then $20. I'm giving them out to relatives like stocking stuffers at xmas. I got fed up with br0k3ass3d friends and relatives complaining about [lack of digital camera, can't post to craigslist, no email, ...] Something like 400 MHz ARM processor with built in Wifi let's them sit at McDonalds and surf the internet.
Android looks strong too. Active community of people hacking and supporting the OS on everything from phones to tablets. $70 tablet and $10 USB keyboard take care of most of the stuff people need. Tablets even come with built in camera albeit a crappy one.
Right now it looks like some flavor of Android and ARM processor are going to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect looked unstoppable.
> "Trevor" <trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message > news:jnpf9r$opc$3@dont-email.me...
> > Have you seen the Raspberry Pi?
> > http://www.raspberrypi.org/ > Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future > and a journey back into Linux.
LOL! :)
<snip>
> Right now it looks like some flavor of Android and ARM processor are going > to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect > looked unstoppable.
Yeah. I'm making no bets on anything these days. :)
RIM was big. Now they're a joke. Launching fake protests
(paid protestors) outside Apple stores in Australia. Seriously?
Grasping for relevancy, I guess. (And all my cynicism comes as just
a bystander. :) )
>> Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future
>> and a journey back into Linux.
> LOL! :)
> <snip>
>> Right now it looks like some flavor of Android and ARM processor are >> going
>> to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect
>> looked unstoppable.
> Yeah. I'm making no bets on anything these days. :)
> RIM was big. Now they're a joke. Launching fake protests
> (paid protestors) outside Apple stores in Australia. Seriously?
> Grasping for relevancy, I guess. (And all my cynicism comes as just
> a bystander. :) )
The specs on that one match my desktop except for hard drive. My laptop has it beat.
It's a confusing time and I am easily confused. I've heard VGA is at the end of its product life. I've heard real modems are selling for ~$300 because they are still used by POS for credit cards and electric transfers: No one trusts the internet or wireless.
I don't think you can buy anything but a SATA hard drive and IDE controllers are going the way of the dodo. Remember when there was something called a Sound Blaster?
This type of info used to be good news for someone like me, living off the sharp edge of technology, but now people are so hard up they are stealing stuff just for recycling. I may pick up a few more LCD VGA monitors just for fool'in.
I've been really dissatisfied with stock Atari video for a while. I've had an insight that may be cheap and work. There's a couple of techniques people have used for bank switching carts and some devices like the Covox. One is to latch the address lines and the other is to set up a single latch like a 74LS374 in the memory map. There's shift registers like the 74LS165 that were used in early video for things like the Timex Sinclair and even Bob Woolley's 80 column mod. What I was thinking was the same signals that latch cart banking could be used to latch data into a 74LS165 except instead of doing it under processor control or via a separate video chip like a 6845 I should be able to get the signals from ANTIC. Done this way everything will be sync'd with the existing display and overlap w/o flicker. Antic will just go through its reading 40 bytes per scan line which will load the shift register with it's own RAM, Simple form would just be a the shift register and an 8k RAM with enough glue logic to make it work. Shouldn't cost more the $5 in parts.
Of course you could do something fancy, like use a 16 bit wide RAM and two 8 bit shift registers with a fast dot clock to get 640x200 but that would add so much complexity I doubt if 1 in 1000 people could build it. Heck, I couldn't build it. I was happy with the ST 320X200 in 16 colors for games. I think I could be happy with and 8bit that throws 16k<8k system + 8k RAM> of display up.
Have you been able to order your Pi yet? I finally made it up to the top of the waiting list last week, but apparently even now that it's ordered it's still a few weeks out on shipping.
> Sheesh! There goes another $35 of my hard earned money in the near future
> and a journey back into Linux.
> I heard someone estimate the new product cycle in the Far East is 4 years.
> It will overflow to stuff done in the Western World. If it's true then the
> 'good old days' like we had where:
> 1) Parent buys computer
> 2) Computer is manufactured and supported for decades
> 3) Child grows up in household and continues tradition for 2nd generation
> 30+ years of stuff like Atari and Spectrum computers.
> There's real competition and innovation going on. I don't think it was that
> long ago I was talking about my PMP being programmable and running at ~140
> MHz. Just bought my 4th Windows mobile phone off fleabay for less then $20.
> I'm giving them out to relatives like stocking stuffers at xmas. I got fed
> up with br0k3ass3d friends and relatives complaining about [lack of digital
> camera, can't post to craigslist, no email, ...] Something like 400 MHz ARM
> processor with built in Wifi let's them sit at McDonalds and surf the
> internet.
> Android looks strong too. Active community of people hacking and supporting
> the OS on everything from phones to tablets. $70 tablet and $10 USB keyboard
> take care of most of the stuff people need. Tablets even come with built in
> camera albeit a crappy one.
> Right now it looks like some flavor of Android and ARM processor are going
> to win. Of course 30 years ago Digital Research, Atari, and Word Perfect
> looked unstoppable.
> Have you been able to order your Pi yet? I finally made it up to the top > of the waiting list last week, but apparently even now that it's ordered > it's still a few weeks out on shipping.
I haven't ordered it yet. I've heard that because it was intended for schools in England, they will get priority over forgein sales. It isn't a huge priority for me because of other projects competing for my time at that momment. There are a few apps I would like to see on it, like running AtariSIO for linux, but I have alternatives for now.
I'm planning to use it to teach my kids about computers the way I learned about them as a kid, 30 years ago. I almost wish it didn't come pre-assembled.
> "Trevor"<trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
> news:jqjb4v$ogh$2@dont-email.me...
>> Have you been able to order your Pi yet? I finally made it up to the top
>> of the waiting list last week, but apparently even now that it's ordered
>> it's still a few weeks out on shipping.
> I haven't ordered it yet. I've heard that because it was intended for
> schools in England, they will get priority over forgein sales. It isn't a
> huge priority for me because of other projects competing for my time at that
> momment. There are a few apps I would like to see on it, like running
> AtariSIO for linux, but I have alternatives for now.
> I'm planning to use it to teach my kids about computers the way I learned > about them as a kid, 30 years ago. I almost wish it didn't come > pre-assembled.
> - Trevor
Me too except grandkids<grin>. I think the Pi is targeted towards hackers more so then as an educational computer for now. It could end up being the Swiss Army knife of computers. I certainly hope it evolves into the use the designers envision. We have our own specific apps like AtariSIO that could be compiled on the platform and be a low cost alternative to things like SIO2SD.
When I was doing volenteer teaching work in Mt. View California, one of the most popular programs was really low level robotics. The system they were using was turn key: Preassembled kits and programming interface to computer with easy to use programming language. About 1 in 10 students seemed to have a genetic predisposition for things mechanical and it allowed them to let out their inner geek. It would be nice if we could find another generation that is more into hacking then watching tv and playing WoW.
Then there's other project in sore need of an update. One of my favorites is http://www.megasquirt.info/ using an 8 MHz 68xxx derivative in that one and it costs a small fortune.
> Have to say from what I read of this it is all looking interesting. Will > keep tracking.
And now the bad news: I just checked a supplier while holding a credit card in my hot little hand and there is 141 day lead time for it. If I ordered it today I may get it in time for xmas. It was enough to make me hold off for a while longer.
I guess it is good on a few levels, lots of people buying them + lots of people hacking them.
I got on the waiting list (to order) in March, was notified I could order in May, and it finally arrived last week. Are you at least on the waiting list?
> "Clu" <dr...@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:jt7o02$o9l$3@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Have to say from what I read of this it is all looking interesting. Will
>> keep tracking.
> And now the bad news: I just checked a supplier while holding a credit card
> in my hot little hand and there is 141 day lead time for it. If I ordered it
> today I may get it in time for xmas. It was enough to make me hold off for a
> while longer.
> I guess it is good on a few levels, lots of people buying them + lots of
> people hacking them.
Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they hold your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
I'm kind of sensitive when it comes to being disappointed. I recently got burned on the 6502.org site trying to buy a 65816 system. I think the guy trying to sell me his died so he had a good excuse. I laughed, I cried, I kissed my hundred bucks goodbye! I don't mind on line stuff, only been burned maybe 8 times in the last 10 years. Heck, your right, it's only $35 and there's some action going on. I should at least get on the wait list even if it costs me. I was looking at Python and it seems enough like everything else 'structured programming' that I think I could pick it up.
BTW: There's a ton of knuckleheads on fleabay selling them for 3x their original purchase price. I hope a bird shits on their heads!!!
I am in my 60s so now I calculate everything based on my chances of dying before it gets here.<grin>
"Trevor" <trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
>I got on the waiting list (to order) in March, was notified I could order >in May, and it finally arrived last week. Are you at least on the waiting >list?
> - Trevor
> On 7/8/2012 3:47 PM, Rick wrote:
>> "Clu" <dr...@swbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:jt7o02$o9l$3@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> Have to say from what I read of this it is all looking interesting. Will
>>> keep tracking.
>> And now the bad news: I just checked a supplier while holding a credit >> card
>> in my hot little hand and there is 141 day lead time for it. If I ordered >> it
>> today I may get it in time for xmas. It was enough to make me hold off >> for a
>> while longer.
>> I guess it is good on a few levels, lots of people buying them + lots of
>> people hacking them.
There are 2 companies making them, I believe both are in England. It doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront for, it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year old daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she could do whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something up. So it's serving its purpose. :)
> Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they hold
> your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from
> Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
> I'm kind of sensitive when it comes to being disappointed. I recently got
> burned on the 6502.org site trying to buy a 65816 system. I think the guy
> trying to sell me his died so he had a good excuse. I laughed, I cried, I
> kissed my hundred bucks goodbye! I don't mind on line stuff, only been
> burned maybe 8 times in the last 10 years. Heck, your right, it's only $35
> and there's some action going on. I should at least get on the wait list
> even if it costs me. I was looking at Python and it seems enough like
> everything else 'structured programming' that I think I could pick it up.
> BTW: There's a ton of knuckleheads on fleabay selling them for 3x their
> original purchase price. I hope a bird shits on their heads!!!
> I am in my 60s so now I calculate everything based on my chances of dying
> before it gets here.<grin>
> "Trevor" <trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
> news:jtevtl$ltu$1@dont-email.me...
>> I got on the waiting list (to order) in March, was notified I could order
>> in May, and it finally arrived last week. Are you at least on the waiting
>> list?
>> - Trevor
>> On 7/8/2012 3:47 PM, Rick wrote:
>>> "Clu" <dr...@swbell.net> wrote in message
>>> news:jt7o02$o9l$3@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>> Have to say from what I read of this it is all looking interesting. Will
>>>> keep tracking.
>>> And now the bad news: I just checked a supplier while holding a credit
>>> card
>>> in my hot little hand and there is 141 day lead time for it. If I ordered
>>> it
>>> today I may get it in time for xmas. It was enough to make me hold off
>>> for a
>>> while longer.
>>> I guess it is good on a few levels, lots of people buying them + lots of
>>> people hacking them.
They dinged me pretty hard on shipping and tax. $47.78 out the door. Apparently Newark is a division of Farnell now.
We'll see if their web site that said 141 days or their purchase order is right. Five weeks wouldn't be so bad.
I saw where someone has already done a SNES port so it has enough horse power to do anything I would ask of it. I'm maybe 80% sure I know where the Colleen/Droid 800 code is screwing up. Gawd awful, I am going to have to set up the tool chain and learn ARM assembler to make sure.
It does look like it could be a must have for an Atari hacker. Just about everything else costs $100+ to do anything worth while. This should be a Swiss Army Knife in that it could substitute for everything from being an emulator to SIO2SD to ATR8000 to XEP80.
"Trevor" <trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
> There are 2 companies making them, I believe both are in England. It > doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my > special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then > received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been > shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
> Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain > Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront for, > it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
> And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year old > daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she could do > whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something up. So it's > serving its purpose. :)
> On 7/10/2012 10:43 PM, Rick wrote:
>> Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they hold
>> your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from
>> Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
> They dinged me pretty hard on shipping and tax. $47.78 out the door.
> Apparently Newark is a division of Farnell now.
> We'll see if their web site that said 141 days or their purchase order is
> right. Five weeks wouldn't be so bad.
> I saw where someone has already done a SNES port so it has enough horse
> power to do anything I would ask of it. I'm maybe 80% sure I know where the
> Colleen/Droid 800 code is screwing up. Gawd awful, I am going to have to set
> up the tool chain and learn ARM assembler to make sure.
> It does look like it could be a must have for an Atari hacker. Just about
> everything else costs $100+ to do anything worth while. This should be a
> Swiss Army Knife in that it could substitute for everything from being an
> emulator to SIO2SD to ATR8000 to XEP80.
> "Trevor" <trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
> news:jtk5n6$tds$1@dont-email.me...
>> There are 2 companies making them, I believe both are in England. It
>> doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my
>> special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then
>> received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been
>> shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
>> Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain
>> Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront for,
>> it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
>> And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year old
>> daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she could do
>> whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something up. So it's
>> serving its purpose. :)
>> On 7/10/2012 10:43 PM, Rick wrote:
>>> Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they hold
>>> your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them from
>>> Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
> <big snip>
No, I checked out their price just now and total cost was about the same.
Purchased mine from Newark/Farnell so I think they will get it to me faster. It would have been placed on back order for 3 months according to the web site. I couldn't really start working on it sooner then that anyway. I've been doing other stuff like building an electic bicycle for my 3 year old grandson. I should do some more work on it right now.
Rick
"Trevor" <trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
> (Or perhaps you already knew that, and that's where you ordered from?)
> On 7/11/2012 10:21 AM, Rick wrote:
>> Expected Ship Date: 08/16/2012 Expected Ship Quantity: 1
>> Final Expected Ship Date: 08/16/2012
>> They dinged me pretty hard on shipping and tax. $47.78 out the door.
>> Apparently Newark is a division of Farnell now.
>> We'll see if their web site that said 141 days or their purchase order is
>> right. Five weeks wouldn't be so bad.
>> I saw where someone has already done a SNES port so it has enough horse
>> power to do anything I would ask of it. I'm maybe 80% sure I know where >> the
>> Colleen/Droid 800 code is screwing up. Gawd awful, I am going to have to >> set
>> up the tool chain and learn ARM assembler to make sure.
>> It does look like it could be a must have for an Atari hacker. Just about
>> everything else costs $100+ to do anything worth while. This should be a
>> Swiss Army Knife in that it could substitute for everything from being an
>> emulator to SIO2SD to ATR8000 to XEP80.
>> "Trevor" <trevorREM...@holyoak.com> wrote in message
>> news:jtk5n6$tds$1@dont-email.me...
>>> There are 2 companies making them, I believe both are in England. It
>>> doesn't cost you anything to get on the waiting list. I finally got my
>>> special link to order in May, and that was when I had to pay. I then
>>> received a notification from DHL several weeks later that it had been
>>> shipped (from England) and it was delivered less than a week after that.
>>> Yes, there was a lot of waiting, but after waiting for a certain
>>> Atari-related product a few years ago that I did have to pay upfront >>> for,
>>> it was like the blink of an eye... ;)
>>> And the great thing is that the night I first hooked it up, my 15 year >>> old
>>> daughter spent over an hour playing with it. She liked that she could do
>>> whatever she wanted without worrying about messing something up. So it's
>>> serving its purpose. :)
>>> On 7/10/2012 10:43 PM, Rick wrote:
>>>> Not on wait list, I think it is one of those pay for it now and they >>>> hold
>>>> your money for you. If I have it correctly, they have to order them >>>> from
>>>> Farnell<sp?> in England and wait for the shipment.
>> <big snip>
