Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
question on Two Steves
39 views
Skip to first unread message
Toma Sharple
Jan 20, 2012, 12:47:50 PM1/20/12
to
okay, here under an assumed name, passing on a question from my 'Dad
in Chicago'. He does not want to post himself, because he is
embarrassed.
what Dad is asking ...
"Way back, I read that the two Steves had taken a contract for someone
like Honeywell. Jobs told Woz that the payoff was $500, and Woz
happily took his $250 share.
"Then, almost a decade later, I read that Woz had written a book, and
described how he had started crying during a plane ride. He had read
that Jobs had lied, and the contract was really $5000, and had given
Woz only 5%. They had been friends, and equal partners, he had
thought.
"In the decades since then, I thought this was a given fact, that Jobs
had screwed his friend Woz. When fellow users would tell me about
Jobs's latest achievement or screwup, I'd respond in a lukewarm way.
I'd eventually explain that "Steven Jobs is not my favorite person".
"And last year, during all the public grieving, I kept quiet. After
all, the guy was dead.
"But, you know, I never could find out -- did the two Steve's ever
make up? Or did Jobs apologize? Or was the whole thing a
misunderstanding in the first place? But no one wrote about it.
"I know that Woz and Jobs did work together from time to time over the
decades. And I saw in the "Pirates of Silicon Valley" movie that Woz
didn't think that Jobs was perfect."
and my Dad is having me post a query here or there.
anybody recognize this story? can anybody shed light on this, please?
- toma
in Chicago'. He does not want to post himself, because he is
embarrassed.
what Dad is asking ...
"Way back, I read that the two Steves had taken a contract for someone
like Honeywell. Jobs told Woz that the payoff was $500, and Woz
happily took his $250 share.
"Then, almost a decade later, I read that Woz had written a book, and
described how he had started crying during a plane ride. He had read
that Jobs had lied, and the contract was really $5000, and had given
Woz only 5%. They had been friends, and equal partners, he had
thought.
"In the decades since then, I thought this was a given fact, that Jobs
had screwed his friend Woz. When fellow users would tell me about
Jobs's latest achievement or screwup, I'd respond in a lukewarm way.
I'd eventually explain that "Steven Jobs is not my favorite person".
"And last year, during all the public grieving, I kept quiet. After
all, the guy was dead.
"But, you know, I never could find out -- did the two Steve's ever
make up? Or did Jobs apologize? Or was the whole thing a
misunderstanding in the first place? But no one wrote about it.
"I know that Woz and Jobs did work together from time to time over the
decades. And I saw in the "Pirates of Silicon Valley" movie that Woz
didn't think that Jobs was perfect."
and my Dad is having me post a query here or there.
anybody recognize this story? can anybody shed light on this, please?
- toma
D Finnigan
Jan 20, 2012, 12:51:45 PM1/20/12
to
Steve Nickolas
Jan 20, 2012, 1:17:29 PM1/20/12
to
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Toma Sharple wrote:
> okay, here under an assumed name, passing on a question from my 'Dad
> in Chicago'. He does not want to post himself, because he is
> embarrassed.
>
> what Dad is asking ...
>
>
> "Way back, I read that the two Steves had taken a contract for someone
> like Honeywell. Jobs told Woz that the payoff was $500, and Woz
> happily took his $250 share.
>
> "Then, almost a decade later, I read that Woz had written a book, and
> described how he had started crying during a plane ride. He had read
> that Jobs had lied, and the contract was really $5000, and had given
> Woz only 5%. They had been friends, and equal partners, he had
> thought.
Atari. Breakout.
> okay, here under an assumed name, passing on a question from my 'Dad
> in Chicago'. He does not want to post himself, because he is
> embarrassed.
>
> what Dad is asking ...
>
>
> "Way back, I read that the two Steves had taken a contract for someone
> like Honeywell. Jobs told Woz that the payoff was $500, and Woz
> happily took his $250 share.
>
> "Then, almost a decade later, I read that Woz had written a book, and
> described how he had started crying during a plane ride. He had read
> that Jobs had lied, and the contract was really $5000, and had given
> Woz only 5%. They had been friends, and equal partners, he had
> thought.
-uso.
Egan Ford
Jan 20, 2012, 2:00:16 PM1/20/12
to
BLuRry
Jan 20, 2012, 3:58:49 PM1/20/12
to
Woz is a really nice guy. Though it sucks that Jobs screwed him out of some coin, it was because of Breakout that Woz decided to add the I/O and graphics features to the Apple // that made it such a huge hit. In the end, I think karma prevailed.
Linards Ticmanis
Jan 24, 2012, 2:47:00 PM1/24/12
to
On 01/20/2012 09:58 PM, BLuRry wrote:
> Woz is a really nice guy. Though it sucks that Jobs screwed him out of some coin, it was because of Breakout that Woz decided to add the I/O and graphics features to the Apple // that made it such a huge hit. In the end, I think karma prevailed.
And I personally find Wozniak's book, "iWoz", much more interesting than
> Woz is a really nice guy. Though it sucks that Jobs screwed him out of some coin, it was because of Breakout that Woz decided to add the I/O and graphics features to the Apple // that made it such a huge hit. In the end, I think karma prevailed.
the hyped Jobs biography.
--
Linards Ticmanis
Toma Sharple
Feb 2, 2012, 6:49:32 PM2/2/12
to
like my dad.
Hey, everyone, I really want to thank you all. Aside from him mis-
remembering the company, you confirmed pretty much what he remembered.
It is a funny thing that, without Jobs, it looks like Woz would have
happily just made calculators and other stuff and inventions for some
company. He might not have become rich, and he might have been taken
advantage of by someone else.
But that doesn't let Jobs off the hook, as far as my dad and me are
concerned. One doesn't screw one's friends. My dad thinks Jobs may
be doing a lot of thinking, at some point, in the afterlife, and it
won't be about money or making money. But, he adds, it's not really
our place to judge.
Thanks again, guys.
-toma
limtc
Feb 3, 2012, 6:29:38 AM2/3/12
to
Steve denied this in his biography.
There are often 2 sides of the story.
There are often 2 sides of the story.
David Chiu
Feb 8, 2012, 12:29:29 AM2/8/12
to
On 2/3/2012 3:29 AM, limtc wrote:
> Steve denied this in his biography.
>
> There are often 2 sides of the story.
Well, one Steve is a well known engineer. The other Steve is a well
> Steve denied this in his biography.
>
> There are often 2 sides of the story.
known spin meister. Who would you ... believe?
limtc
Feb 8, 2012, 11:43:43 PM2/8/12
to
David Chiu
Feb 9, 2012, 1:06:52 AM2/9/12
to
cares a great deal about the legacy they left behind, enough to brush
over deeds they much rather the world not know or remember.
Michael Black
Feb 9, 2012, 2:47:54 AM2/9/12
to
in an article about the history of the magazine:
"A California kid named Steve Jobs, who grew up building Heathkit
electronic projects would later say that his boyhood forays into
DIY 'gave a tremendous level of self-confidence, that through
exploration and learning one could learn seemingly very complex
things'. After dropping out of college, Jobs retreated to his
parent's garage with a buddy named Steve Wozniak to modify the
first personal computer, the Altair 8800. You know the rest of
this story".
Note the garbling of the bit about the Altair.
But I don't remember seeing mention of Heathkits in his history,
though I admit it's been at least 15 years since I read any of the
history books about Apple.
But here again, it seems more like giving Steve Jobs more ability
than he actually had, since it's about him and Woz is just mentioned
in passing. I don't even think this is Steve Jobs claiming more than
he knew, it's another case of Steve Jobs being much better known to the
public, so he is given all the magical technical skills that really
belonged to Steve Wozniak.
The story that started this thread is a great example. Steve Jobs was
given the task of eliminating ICs from an Atari video game, but to do it
he had to have Steve Wozniak do the actual work.
I really get the impression Steve Jobs dabbled in electronics (and of
course, building a Heathkit didn't require technical skill, just skill
in assemblying, and not much skill there since the kits were designed
for anybody to build), the same way I knew kids in high school. They
never went as far as I did, they were interested in Ham Radio but never
got the license, they liked doing pranks with electronics, they liked
making wooden cabinets so putting together digital clock kits was great
since it required no real skill and then there was something to put in the
cabinet.
Michael
Toma Sharple
Feb 12, 2012, 10:44:06 AM2/12/12
to
On Feb 3, 6:29 am, limtc <thyech...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steve denied this in his biography.
>
> There are often 2 sides of the story.
I passed this along. He certainly is interested in hearing Jobs's
> Steve denied this in his biography.
>
> There are often 2 sides of the story.
side of things, but admitted that a biography of Jobs hadn't been tops
on his list of interests.
Then he later asked, which book are we talking about? A search for
"jobs biography" comes up with a few of them. "I, Steve", is a
collection of quotes and stories, though actually from Jobs himself.
The Walter Isaacson book seems like it might be the one you mentioned.
And, as for me, I have my own observation that there seems to be
things like "Manager Think" and "Manager Language". A guy in charge
can walk around claiming to have done something, while the regular
Earth people would perhaps point out that he had just gotten others to
do it for him.
I could picture Teddy Roosevelt claiming to have built the Panama
Canal, (though I don't know if he ever made that claim), because he
was president at the time and was a driving force for it and all those
reasons, but he probably didn't pitch more than three shovels full of
dirt for it and didn't pour any concrete.
Steve Jobs hits me as the kind of executive who may have, in truth,
thought that he had been the guy who got Atari's contract "done" and
that Wozniak was just the specialized talent that designed the circuit
and breadboarded it. Or, as David and Michael point out, it could be
"spinning" or worse. I have learned not to take anything at face
value.
On behalf of my dad, limtc, thank you very much for the lead!
-toma
Michael Black
Feb 12, 2012, 12:02:35 PM2/12/12
to
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012, Toma Sharple wrote:
> On Feb 3, 6:29 am, limtc <thyech...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steve denied this in his biography.
>>
>> There are often 2 sides of the story.
>
> I passed this along. He certainly is interested in hearing Jobs's
> side of things, but admitted that a biography of Jobs hadn't been tops
> on his list of interests.
>
> Then he later asked, which book are we talking about? A search for
> "jobs biography" comes up with a few of them. "I, Steve", is a
> collection of quotes and stories, though actually from Jobs himself.
>
> The Walter Isaacson book seems like it might be the one you mentioned.
>
It's worth nothing that the story, whether or not true, has been around
> On Feb 3, 6:29 am, limtc <thyech...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steve denied this in his biography.
>>
>> There are often 2 sides of the story.
>
> I passed this along. He certainly is interested in hearing Jobs's
> side of things, but admitted that a biography of Jobs hadn't been tops
> on his list of interests.
>
> Then he later asked, which book are we talking about? A search for
> "jobs biography" comes up with a few of them. "I, Steve", is a
> collection of quotes and stories, though actually from Jobs himself.
>
> The Walter Isaacson book seems like it might be the one you mentioned.
>
for some time. I'm sure it's either in Steven Levy's "Hackers" or "Fire
in the Valley" (from someone else) dating from the mid-eighties. Both were
books aimed at "technical" people, while later works were aimed at
business types or the general public. If there was a garbling, or false
attribution, I'd tend to think it would be in the latter rather than the
earlier books. In the mid-eighties, Steve Jobs was relatively unknown (he
was known, but not the extent of today where a large portion of the
population either has iPods or knows about them, and knows about Steve
Jobs).
I like you're bit about him maybe perceiving the job as "being done" by
handing it off to someone else. That has potential, and certainly in
later books, that would fit the less technical nature of such books.
Michael
Michael J. Mahon
Feb 12, 2012, 1:19:21 PM2/12/12
to
thing!
A good manager frames a design problem for his team to solve, and
usually participates in the high-level design team. It then becomes
his primary job to "sell" the project to upper management to obtain
funding for it.
Throughout the life of the project, usually multiple years, he has
a two-fold responsibility: 1) keep the team focused and progressing,
and 2) provide "air support" to keep upper management and other
divisions of the company from interfering with its completion (by
introducing new, defocusing requirements or starving it for resources,
for example.
When the project is completed, it is completely accurate to say that
all who participated in it "completed" it, since without their efforts
it would never have happened. This is particularly true for the manager
and lead designers and implementors, who in many phases of a project
are indispensible.
That's why the whole team, including the marketing folks, celebrate
the project milestones, especially product shipment.
(Though Al Gore is frequently parodied for claiming some responsibility
for the creation of the Internet, he did, in fact, play an important
role in supporting and defending ARPAnet funding, which was essential
to the development of the Internet.)
Even in a small team effort, where "upper management" is non-existent,
like the creation of the Apple II, both Steves were indispensible.
Without Woz there would never have been an Apple II design, and without
Jobs, it never would have become a winning product.
It is important to qualify "doing" a project with the nature of the
role played by the particular "doer".
-michael
NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."
0 new messages