Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Ultrawarp...

1,113 views
Skip to first unread message

STYNX

unread,
Mar 27, 2013, 6:31:35 PM3/27/13
to
Hi there,
i recently got my hand on an Ultrawarp (v1.91 from 2013) and i will be writing a Preview of the Card (since it is still at prototype status) in the coming Month(s). Michael was so kind to give me the recent Iteration of the Ultrawarp to test it with several of my Systems and Cards. I had some problems in the beginning since i accidentally swapped 2 TTL-ICs. In the end i could get the Card running at incredible 16.6670Mhz! That means i may have the fastest Apple II Europlus in the World ;-)) So far i had no problems with the Card working with Expansions. More on that in the future Preview (in german and english).

Just so you know (and to boast about my new Ultrawarp *g*)

chau...@googlemail.com

unread,
Mar 28, 2013, 6:28:18 AM3/28/13
to
Sounds promising! Really looking forward to read your preview. :-)
Is there already a plan when and how this card be purchased?

STYNX

unread,
Mar 28, 2013, 6:56:06 AM3/28/13
to
Am Donnerstag, 28. März 2013 11:28:18 UTC+1 schrieb chau...@googlemail.com:
> Sounds promising! Really looking forward to read your preview. :-)
>
> Is there already a plan when and how this card be purchased?

Michael is still in the dev. process. He might rework the whole design of the card on the way. This is just a little teaser for the ultrawarp. As I said at the beginning of the year (2013) Im very excited about things to come to the Apple II. In my opinion the card might be mostly finished, but michael wants to have it perfect.
-Jonas

STYNX

unread,
Mar 29, 2013, 8:00:18 AM3/29/13
to
Still testing, but so far:
---------------------
A2-SCSI:...............2
HS-SCSI:...............2
RamFast:..............0 (Memory segmentation fault)
Liron:...................1
5.25" Controller:..1
Mockingboard:.....2
ALF AM2:..............1 (2 works with strange dissonance)
----------------------
0-Error (does not work accelerated)
1-Normal Bus-speed OK
2-Fast Bus-speed OK

next: Bludisk, SSC, Midi, ...

-Jonas

STYNX

unread,
Mar 29, 2013, 7:11:54 PM3/29/13
to
BlueDisk:.............1,2
----------------------
0-Error (does not work accelerated)
1-Normal Bus-speed OK
2-Fast Bus-speed OK
----
Regarding the RamFast not working at all with the Ultrawarp I might have an Explanation:
Since the Ramfast uses DMA if no Accelerator available it might be that the RF cannot identify the Ultrawarp? This leads to the Method the RF identifies the TW, RocketCip, Accelertor II and so on.
All these Accelerators use Address 49286 for the speedsetting. The Ultrawarp uses another Address. I found References that suggest, that in the days many Programmers used Poke 49268 to slowdown the Accelerator (even if not present) to prevent data corruption with specialized hardware. Since the RF has its own Z80-based subsystem, it might change system settings (like speed) actively.
-Jonas

STYNX

unread,
Apr 1, 2013, 10:42:15 AM4/1/13
to
Ultrawarp with RamFast Problems:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88521483@N03/8609728944/in/photostream
1st Boot: 16.6670mhz
2nd Boot: 1Mhz (Poke 49245,0)
3rd Boot: UW Off (Poke 49243,0)
4th Boot UW Off
It does not seem to be a speed-related problem. It might have to do with the design?

Michael J. Mahon

unread,
Apr 1, 2013, 3:55:19 PM4/1/13
to
How about if you turn off Ramfast DMA access?

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

STYNX

unread,
Apr 1, 2013, 5:38:03 PM4/1/13
to
> How about if you turn off Ramfast DMA access?
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

Is there a jumper for that? Because i can not get to the rom-util...
I searched the manual and could not find a hardware-based way to disable DMA.
The DMA might be pretty much the Problem ;-). The RF should disable DMA by itself when a Accelerator is present. It does disable DMA by itself for Transwarp and Accelerator II.

STYNX

unread,
Apr 1, 2013, 6:11:49 PM4/1/13
to
I just read the RamFast (revD) manual again and found a passage i over-read:

"... Other things to be aware of is that the 10mHz RocketChip will not work in the same system
as RamFAST/SCSI. This is a problem with the RocketChip, not the RamFAST/SCSI and there is nothing that we can do about it. Also, some of the 8mHz ZipChips have problems in the same system as a RamFAST/SCSI. ..."

Seems to have been a Problem back than as well. :-)
Michael will probably need (a/my) RF to find the problem.
Since i have only a RF revD, i can not test the revC (which has dip-switches for DMA)

Michael J. Mahon

unread,
Apr 1, 2013, 6:28:52 PM4/1/13
to
The Zip Chip and RocketChip were functionally identical, and, since the
connect only to the CPU socket, they have no way of knowing about DMA (to
invalidate or eavesdrop for their caches).

A slot card can see DMA activity, and so could cope with it.

STYNX

unread,
Apr 1, 2013, 7:35:59 PM4/1/13
to
Well, i did not really intend to say they might have had the _same_ problems, but that there had been problems with some Accelerators. Since the RamFast has its own Processor and Ram, it could scan the bus and set itself up to match the systems requirements. The Transwarp (even the TWII), the Accelerator II(e), the ZIP- and the RocketChip,... had all been well known when the RamFast (revD) came. Since other (non-DMA) Cards work with a Ultrawarp equipped system like they should, the DMA of the RF might be the problem. BUT it could be something entirely different as well. I don't know enough of the Apple-2's subsystem and even less about the Ultrawarp's internal structure to pinpoint the error which is causing the 'hiccups' when accessing the RF.
No Apple II Accelerator (ignoring the IIgs ;-) can work together with _another_ DMA-Card without Problems. I would like to see if the RF has DMA enabled or disabled when its in an UW-enabled system. But its not possible to get to the utils while the UW is enabled ...
-Jonas

Howard Poe

unread,
Apr 2, 2013, 1:21:47 AM4/2/13
to
Did you disable DMA on the Apple II High Speed SCSI card? You listed it as fully compatible with the Ultrawarp. Was DIP switch one on or off (closed or open)?

Scott Alfter

unread,
Apr 2, 2013, 2:03:09 PM4/2/13
to
In article <659797c5-64f1-421f...@googlegroups.com>,
STYNX <st...@gmx.de> wrote:
>RamFast:..............0 (Memory segmentation fault)

Have you tried disabling DMA? I had to do that to get it running with a
RocketChip. 10 MHz and no DMA was still faster than 1 MHz and DMA.

(...or is your aim to get your accelerator working with a RamFAST with DMA
enabled? In your tests with the Apple DMA SCSI card, was DMA enabled?)

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

STYNX

unread,
Apr 2, 2013, 2:45:08 PM4/2/13
to
No Problems with the HS-SCSI. The HS-SCSI had DMA disabled (of course) since no slotbased Apple II(e/+/c...) Accelerator allows DMA on other cards in the same system (the exception is of course the IIgs). It might have worked to a degree on the 4mhz ZIPChip though (unconfirmed).
----
I cannot get to the setup of the RamFast with the Ultrawarp enabled (even at 1Mhz). I deactivated the DMA without the Ultrawarp installed but no luck so far since the DMA-Setting seems to be reset if i reboot with the UW installed.
----
1 step: boot with RF only
2 step: disable DMA in RF menu (in#5)
3 step: shutdown+install UW
4 step: boot with UW at 16.667mhz and slot #5 set to 1mhz speed
5 step: try to boot #5 (in#5) -> lockup with shit on screen
6 step: coldreboot and "poke 49245,0" to set UW to 1Mhz
7 step: try to boot #5 (in#5) -> lockup with shit on screen
8 step: coldreboot and "poke 49243,0" to disable UW
9 step: normal operation with RF -> RF has set "DMA: enabled" by itself!
----
I have found no method to disable DMA by hardware (Rev.D RamFast) like a jumper or dip-switch before booting, since there is only the termination-power jumper.
----
The RF remembers its settings if the UW is not installed, even after several cold-reboots and longer periods of not being powered on.
----
The RF works flawlessly with an Accelerator II and a Transwarp.

-Jonas

Michael J. Mahon

unread,
Apr 2, 2013, 3:35:36 PM4/2/13
to
STYNX <st...@gmx.de> wrote:
> No Problems with the HS-SCSI. The HS-SCSI had DMA disabled (of course)
> since no slotbased Apple II(e/+/c...) Accelerator allows DMA on other
> cards in the same system (the exception is of course the IIgs). It might
> have worked to a degree on the 4mhz ZIPChip though (unconfirmed).

Nope.

No card incapable of snooping DMA bus transactions and no CPU socket
accelerator can function correctly with DMA. The fundamental issue is that
it cannot keep its memory or cache consistent with the Apple II memory.

For Zip Chip and RocketChip, a critical issue is that they do not implement
the /RDY line of the CPU. (This also keeps them from working with most
floating-point coprocessors.)

> I cannot get to the setup of the RamFast with the Ultrawarp enabled (even
> at 1Mhz). I deactivated the DMA without the Ultrawarp installed but no
> luck so far since the DMA-Setting seems to be reset if i reboot with the UW installed.
> ----
> 1 step: boot with RF only
> 2 step: disable DMA in RF menu (in#5)
> 3 step: shutdown+install UW
> 4 step: boot with UW at 16.667mhz and slot #5 set to 1mhz speed
> 5 step: try to boot #5 (in#5) -> lockup with shit on screen
> 6 step: coldreboot and "poke 49245,0" to set UW to 1Mhz
> 7 step: try to boot #5 (in#5) -> lockup with shit on screen
> 8 step: coldreboot and "poke 49243,0" to disable UW
> 9 step: normal operation with RF -> RF has set "DMA: enabled" by itself!
> ----
> I have found no method to disable DMA by hardware (Rev.D RamFast) like a
> jumper or dip-switch before booting, since there is only the termination-power jumper.
> ----
> The RF remembers its settings if the UW is not installed, even after
> several cold-reboots and longer periods of not being powered on.
> ----
> The RF works flawlessly with an Accelerator II and a Transwarp.
>
> -Jonas

--

STYNX

unread,
Apr 3, 2013, 11:47:37 AM4/3/13
to
> For Zip Chip and RocketChip, a critical issue is that they do not implement
> the /RDY line of the CPU. (This also keeps them from working with most
> floating-point coprocessors.)
Really? ... Thats a ... bad design-error/-decision ... I don't have any ZIPChip or RocketChip on my hand but now i'm glad i didn't buy the ZIP8 i offered for about $250 a while back.
-Jonas

STYNX

unread,
Apr 3, 2013, 11:49:08 AM4/3/13
to
correction ;-)

... the ZIP8 i [was] offered ...

Scott Alfter

unread,
Apr 3, 2013, 1:03:55 PM4/3/13
to
In article <f36380c3-c131-40b9...@googlegroups.com>,
STYNX <st...@gmx.de> wrote:
>I cannot get to the setup of the RamFast with the Ultrawarp enabled
>(even at 1Mhz). I deactivated the DMA without the Ultrawarp installed
>but no luck so far since the DMA-Setting seems to be reset if i reboot
>with the UW installed.
>
>[...]
>
>I have found no method to disable DMA by hardware (Rev.D RamFast) like a
>jumper or dip-switch before booting, since there is only the
>termination-power jumper.

Hmm...no switches? My RamFAST is a rev. C, which IIRC has a couple of
switches (one tells the card if it's in a IIGS or a IIe, and I think there's
one to enable/disable DMA). No wonder it was easy to get running with a
RocketChip.

(Also IIRC, wasn't the rev. D RamFAST intended more for use in the IIGS than
in the IIe?)

Sean Fahey

unread,
Apr 3, 2013, 3:29:24 PM4/3/13
to
On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 12:03:55 PM UTC-5, Scott Alfter wrote:

> (Also IIRC, wasn't the rev. D RamFAST intended more for use in the IIGS than
> in the IIe?)

It's equally capable in either machine.

Michael J. Mahon

unread,
Apr 3, 2013, 6:45:24 PM4/3/13
to
Though somewhat annoying, the 8MHz Zip Chip is a much more general
performance win than any (even the fastest) FP coprocessor.

If you think about what /RDY is expected to do, you can see why the
designer of an asynchronous cache-based accelerator would have trouble
justifying it on a cost/benefit basis.

mdj

unread,
Apr 4, 2013, 1:37:04 AM4/4/13
to
On Thursday, 4 April 2013 05:29:24 UTC+10, Sean Fahey wrote:

> It's equally capable in either machine.

Except that DMA is of far more benefit on a IIgs, since GS/OS can do multi-block IO requests, and ProDOS 8 only single. The difference between DMA and accelerated non-DMA isn't that great for single block transfers.

Matt

mdj

unread,
Apr 4, 2013, 1:56:19 AM4/4/13
to
On Thursday, 4 April 2013 08:45:24 UTC+10, Michael J. Mahon wrote:

> If you think about what /RDY is expected to do, you can see why the
>
> designer of an asynchronous cache-based accelerator would have trouble
>
> justifying it on a cost/benefit basis.

I might be reading it wrong, but it seemed to me that /RDY could be supported straightforwardly at 1Mhz. Doing it at 8Mhz seems like it would be hit and miss (pun intended) depending on the card in question, given that the relationship between a card using /RDY and the 6502 can be constructed deterministically and the introduction of an accelerator destroys any deterministic timing.

DMA on the Apple II works by stopping the clock input to the 6502, something a socket based accelerator could in principle detect, but as you say in a previous post the issue is cache-memory consistency, which will be inconsistent whenever /RDY or DMA is asserted.

This can be solved, but only by being able to access the /INH line which is only available on the slots. Using /INH an accelerator can in principle substitute its cache for memory on appropriate accesses, allowing a DMA peripheral to see a consistent memory state. The same issues apply to /RDY.

As amusing as it is to consider a ZipChip with a couple of test-clip fly leads springing out of the potting, I for one am glad they didn't do that :-)

STYNX

unread,
Apr 7, 2013, 6:26:31 AM4/7/13
to
Update on the Ultrawarp:

the Ultrawarp is now functioning with the RamFast. It had been a Problem with the RDY Signal. The Card had a (wrong) patch that connected RDY to GND. Michael found the error by tracing the individual lines of the Board.

After removing the Patch and connecting Pin2 of the CPU with pin21 of the Apple II-Bus everything seems to work like it should. No more Errors and the RF detects a nonDMA capable System therefore deactivating DMA by itself.

Cool!

-Jonas

STYNX

unread,
Apr 7, 2013, 6:58:52 AM4/7/13
to
CORRECTION:
...had a (wrong) patch that pulled RDY constantly UP ;-) ....

STYNX

unread,
Apr 7, 2013, 3:53:56 PM4/7/13
to
Disclaimer
-------------
Im not in any kind directly involved with the development of the Ultrawarp, nor do i have anything to say regarding the pricing of anything Michael might actually produce.
--------------

Since the big problem with the RamFast has been solved i can move forward to test the next batch of Cards.

I just wanted to ask everyone how much an Apple II Accelerator should cost. Im just curious what the community thinks...The last Ultrawarp Michael auctioned on eBay went for >300$ and that was the older 8Mhz model.

My card gets to 16.667Mhz and has 128k memory. It behaves like an advanced Accelerator //e. The "final" Ultrawarp might have more/better features in the future.

1. what should a Ultrawarp cost
2. what features do you want/need

Thanks in advance ;-)

-Jonas

Jerome Vernet

unread,
Apr 7, 2013, 4:33:39 PM4/7/13
to
Le 07/04/13 21:53, STYNX a �crit :

> 1. what should a Ultrawarp cost
150-200$ ;)
> 2. what features do you want/need

An SDCard Reader to store disk images and Hard Disk Images ?
USB Mouse and Keyboard Port ?
VGA Output ?
More memory ?

(Well.... It's a Rasperry Pi with LinApple and cost 25$)

Michael J. Mahon

unread,
Apr 7, 2013, 8:08:48 PM4/7/13
to
One of the problems of the TransWarp was that it was a power hog, and
therefore hot.

How does the Ultrawarp compare in power requirements? (This is an area
where modern technology should help.)

Hugh Hood

unread,
Apr 7, 2013, 11:52:45 PM4/7/13
to
Jonas,

I must second what Michael said regarding power consumption and heat
generation by the card. Less is more.

My understanding (from Drew 'RamFAST' Vogan) is that a card designed for
reliable operation in all vintages of the IIe must deal with a somewhat
noisy bus, and thus can't be super low power, but I'd still prefer in a new
design something more efficient than the Titan Accelerator IIe and AE
Transwarp were.

IIRC, those pulled 500mA on the 5 Volt line (or was it 12). They did get
pretty warm, and when used with multiple cards, could tax a power supply.

Also, (and I may be the only one who requests this), I'd like to see some
method by which the card could be made aware of the presence of a
bank-switched language card style RAM card in one of the slots (e.g. Saturn
128K Ram Card or Titan 128K Ram Card).

The (2) accelerators mentioned above supported this with a jumper block (or
was it a DIP switch) where the jumper was removed for the slot corresponding
to the slot in which the bank-switched card was installed. The accelerator
would slow down when addresses in the range $D000-$FFFF were referenced with
the slot RAM card enabled. The Titan manual phrased it as 'slowing down one
cycle', but I don't quite understand what is happening there.

Granted, not many software programs used the 128K bank-switched boards, but
I still use one, hence my selfish interest in this feature.

Remember, you asked.

Concerning price, I'd say my max would be $200.00 provided the bank-switched
RAM card recognition feature is implemented, and that the thing wouldn't fry
an egg on the IIe lid. <grin>





Hugh Hood







in article 698889947387072371.6...@news.giganews.com,
Michael J. Mahon at mjm...@aol.com wrote on 4/7/13 7:08 PM:

Steven Hirsch

unread,
Apr 8, 2013, 8:06:11 AM4/8/13
to
On 04/07/2013 03:53 PM, STYNX wrote:

> I just wanted to ask everyone how much an Apple II Accelerator should cost.
> Im just curious what the community thinks...The last Ultrawarp Michael
> auctioned on eBay went for >300$ and that was the older 8Mhz model.
>
> My card gets to 16.667Mhz and has 128k memory. It behaves like an advanced
> Accelerator //e. The "final" Ultrawarp might have more/better features in
> the future.
>
> 1. what should a Ultrawarp cost 2. what features do you want/need

My sense is that the novelty of the card drove that high eBay price. I agree
with Hugh's valuation. $200 net (i.e. with shipping factored in) is about the
limit I'd be interested in paying.

With memory being so inexpensive, why not add multi-MB "Ramworks" aux memory
capability with the option of mapping it above anything that already exists in
the AUX slot?

Steve

Sheldon Simms

unread,
Apr 9, 2013, 10:18:26 AM4/9/13
to
The addition of Ramworks-style memory would make this a must-buy for
me. I sold my
Ramworks card some time ago and I regret it.


Sean Fahey

unread,
Apr 9, 2013, 12:14:22 PM4/9/13
to
On Monday, April 8, 2013 7:06:11 AM UTC-5, Steven Hirsch wrote:

> With memory being so inexpensive, why not add multi-MB "Ramworks" aux memory
> capability with the option of mapping it above anything that already exists in
> the AUX slot?

Wouldn't it be easier, more practical (from the slot design) to add slinky RAM?

Cyril Thibout

unread,
Apr 9, 2013, 1:32:37 PM4/9/13
to
ok ok
but why can't we get real info from the mouth of its maker ?

does someone here know something about a possible ultrawarp roadmap ?

how can we contact the guy behind the idea?

Cyril

STYNX

unread,
Apr 9, 2013, 3:25:08 PM4/9/13
to
I could just talk him into giving me his latest Prototype to test it with some of my Hardware. He went trough several redesigns of the Card already (as it seems) and the final Product might look very different from the card i use right now. As to why he does not intend to go public with the Ultrawap at the moment?... I don't know! We have only sent some eMails back and forth while i was testing... I hope to kinda 'force' him to get a little more public with his Project. But its his decision to actually announce anything. I don't have anymore Info on his current thoughts as any of you. But a Project like the Ultrawarp could probably use some input from the community to keep going on.

BTW: he is following CSA2 and if he wanted to answer, he probably could...

Steven Hirsch

unread,
Apr 10, 2013, 9:25:56 AM4/10/13
to
Actually, probably not. The card already has its own CPU and 128k (first two
banks) of expanded memory. Shouldn't require all that much additional logic
to map additional banks. For extra credit, allow the location of these banks
to be configured such that it could reside above a physical AUX slot card (if
you have one).


STYNX

unread,
Apr 11, 2013, 10:54:25 AM4/11/13
to
My "Workstation Card" arrived today. I just have to make a new cable and then i can test this card with the UW. I hope it works...

BTW: I'm having a some problems with the RamFast at the fast Slot setting. Sometimes the computer just freezes in mid operation then it runs perfect for some time to just freeze up again. No problems at normal Slot-speed (are 16.6Mhz too much?... i will try with a 8Mhz quartz next).

I will have to make some benchmarks as well.
Does anyone know a benchmark-program like Speedometer for the A2?

It may take a while until i am done testing ...

Phil Tubb

unread,
Apr 12, 2013, 12:37:57 AM4/12/13
to
On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:00:18 AM UTC-7, STYNX wrote:
> Still testing, but so far:
>
> ---------------------
>
> A2-SCSI:...............2
>
> HS-SCSI:...............2
>
> RamFast:..............0 (Memory segmentation fault)
>
> Liron:...................1
>
> 5.25" Controller:..1
>
> Mockingboard:.....2
>
> ALF AM2:..............1 (2 works with strange dissonance)
>
> ----------------------
>
> 0-Error (does not work accelerated)
>
> 1-Normal Bus-speed OK
>
> 2-Fast Bus-speed OK
>
>
>
> next: Bludisk, SSC, Midi, ...
>
>
>
> -Jonas

Say, do you happen to have the software that came with the ALF Apple Music II?

STYNX

unread,
Apr 12, 2013, 8:32:15 AM4/12/13
to
> Say, do you happen to have the software that came with the ALF Apple Music II?
only the ProDos version that came with the (8?) 800k disks online.

Phil Tubb

unread,
Apr 13, 2013, 12:20:38 AM4/13/13
to
On Friday, April 12, 2013 5:32:15 AM UTC-7, STYNX wrote:
> > Say, do you happen to have the software that came with the ALF Apple Music II?
>
> only the ProDos version that came with the (8?) 800k disks online.

Is that just the song playback software, or does it include the music entry software? And where online?

Thanks,
Phil

STYNX

unread,
Apr 13, 2013, 3:54:15 AM4/13/13
to
> Is that just the song playback software, or does it include the music entry software? And where online?

Just playback. It can be found in several places, but i have forgotten where i got it from exactly.

STYNX

unread,
Apr 14, 2013, 10:22:04 AM4/14/13
to
Michael gave me some infos how much power the UW draws:
(while running XPS Main Memory Test)

mach 3.5............... 970mA
transwarp.............. 900mA
accelerator iie........ 600mA
UW 1.91@11mhz... 340mA

In my opinion it does not get warm at all. I can barely feel by touching if the card has run for some time.
-Jonas

Michael J. Mahon

unread,
Apr 14, 2013, 7:37:37 PM4/14/13
to
That looks pretty good--just a little over 1.5 watts.

Hugh Hood

unread,
Apr 15, 2013, 8:53:51 AM4/15/13
to
Jonas:

Thanks for the power draw comparisons among the cards.

Again, I'd agree with Michael. The Ultrawarp looks good.





Hugh Hood




in article 206346117387675390.2...@news.giganews.com,
Michael J. Mahon at mjm...@aol.com wrote on 4/14/13 6:37 PM:

Cyril Thibout

unread,
Jun 14, 2013, 10:46:33 AM6/14/13
to
Hi

Any news on the Ultrawarp project?

thanks

cyril

STYNX

unread,
Jun 14, 2013, 11:19:12 AM6/14/13
to
I haven't spoken to Michael since April (too much stuff to do). In conclusion, I have no Idea :-)
The last we talked about was the possibility of implementing a Saturn 128k expansion into the design... as well as some clock-rate related stuff. I don't know what he was actually going to do. But i think he might be redesigning the whole card.
-Jonas

Cyril Thibout

unread,
Jun 18, 2013, 5:52:28 AM6/18/13
to
I can't understand someone working on a so promising project and never making any update himself. Either the project is full vaporware or it is real.
There is no problem just claiming the project is still an early concept but just a word from him would ease the things.

STYNX

unread,
Jun 18, 2013, 8:17:09 AM6/18/13
to
On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:52:28 AM UTC+2, Cyril Thibout wrote:
> I can't understand someone working on a so promising project and never making any update himself. Either the project is full vaporware or it is real.
>
> There is no problem just claiming the project is still an early concept but just a word from him would ease the things.

How much do you want to bet, that this is not real?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88521483@N03/9076422158/
... hint: you loose!

Some People want their privacy. I can understand that. He only gave me a UW proto after heavy insisting.

-Jonas

Steven Hirsch

unread,
Jun 18, 2013, 8:28:31 PM6/18/13
to
On 06/18/2013 08:17 AM, STYNX wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:52:28 AM UTC+2, Cyril Thibout wrote:
>> I can't understand someone working on a so promising project and never making any update himself. Either the project is full vaporware or it is real.
>>
>> There is no problem just claiming the project is still an early concept but just a word from him would ease the things.
>
> How much do you want to bet, that this is not real?
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/88521483@N03/9076422158/
> ... hint: you loose!

One of these cards sold for major $$$s on eBay last year as well. I'm curious
why the designer didn't leverage FPGAs to cut down on the TTL chip count.


STYNX

unread,
Jun 18, 2013, 8:49:04 PM6/18/13
to
As far as i know he does this for fun. Maybe he does not have that much experience with the design of FPGA logic? Either way, he has done my UW with TTL-ICs. He hinted that the following UW protos may be implemented using CPLDs or a FPGA. Until now the UW is a proof of concept. Its totally stable with 14mhz and 'kinda' stable at 16mhz. For the final UW a few features are missing (for example AppleSoft acceleration Transwarp-style). I may post a vid of few demos running on the UW in the coming days...
-Jonas

Michael J. Mahon

unread,
Jun 19, 2013, 12:31:14 AM6/19/13
to
Hmmm... How could you *not* accelerate Applesoft?

STYNX

unread,
Jun 19, 2013, 4:49:56 AM6/19/13
to
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:31:14 AM UTC+2, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
If you don't map the Rom into 'fast'-ram. The system calls point to the Rom and have to be executed at 1mhz.
-Jonas

STYNX

unread,
Jun 19, 2013, 5:51:33 AM6/19/13
to
If you want to copy the rom into fastram, you need a rom for the copy program (a firmware if you want). And since the UW does not have a rom, it cannot do these mem-copys. Implementing the initial mem-copy via TTL is nearly impossible, if you want to use the card in a normal dimensioned A2 with a standard PSU.

That comes down to the following areas you need to be very good in, if you want a good to perfect Accelerator:

- FPGA programming/design (Glue-Logic)
- Circuit-board layout
- Apple System (timing, cycles and overall hardware)
- AppleSoft (possibly for system hooks and stuff)
- 6502 Assembler + 6502 Timing and cycles
- Addon Boards (DMA, patches,...)
- TTL-glue
- Testing (addon-boards, test-equipment, ...)

I think Michael got very good results with his UW. He is running a 1-man show, it my take several Months for decent updates. Some of us have to work btw. and cannot invest more than a day/week for the A2-stuff. I myself have to divide my time upon several retro architectures. 68k, X86, 6502, Z80, ...

-Jonas

-Jonas

Patrick Schaefer

unread,
Jun 19, 2013, 1:24:12 PM6/19/13
to
Am 19.06.2013 02:28 schrieb Steven Hirsch:

> (...)I'm
> curious why the designer didn't leverage FPGAs to cut down on the TTL
> chip count.

Usualy when designing peripherals for a vintage computer, you want to
use vintage technology. That time state machines were built with PROMs
and latches, and PALs (GALs) were available as well. FPGAs were not.

I also could have stuffed my whole IDEfile design into one CPLD, but I
wanted to use components that match the host system.


Patrick

Cyril Thibout

unread,
Jun 20, 2013, 2:42:58 AM6/20/13
to
Thanks Jonas for the Update

so far the best guess I had was YOU were the designer hidden behind another nickname (jonas=michael)just to avoid being disturbed.

So much for the conspiracy theory !

STYNX

unread,
Jun 20, 2013, 5:15:44 AM6/20/13
to
I don't know that much about Michael apart from the A2 stuff.

I got to the A2 about 2 years ago, not much time to dig into the architecture to build something like the UW. Would be cool if i could make something like that ;-). I have some rudimentary understanding of the system. Right now i am thinking of building a A2 sound card with mockingboard + ALF MC compatibility as well as 4 additional FM channels and ADPCM support. I'm waiting for some 60+ various sound processors from China right now. But thats just vaporware right now :-P ... maybe in 2 years, maybe never...
-Jonas

chau...@googlemail.com

unread,
Sep 3, 2013, 3:16:48 AM9/3/13
to
Jonas, any news on Michaels UltraWarp project?

STYNX

unread,
Sep 6, 2013, 7:40:28 PM9/6/13
to
On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:16:48 AM UTC+2, chau...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Jonas, any news on Michaels UltraWarp project?

I haven't talked to Michael since April. Too much to do so little time ... sorry.

-Jonas
0 new messages