Since Conrad has gone AWOL - Let us speculate about the Transwarp Clone Project!

[IUnknown]

Well, since Conrad isn't answering email .... and hasn't really been
very forthcoming with information, a delivery status or any accurate
delivery estimate about the Transwarp clone project ....

So, here is my speculation as to what happened:

I am guessing that he did have good intentions, and worked with one of
his manufacturers to clone the device.

He took deposits/payments on the devices and discovered (after
delivery) that they didn't function properly. In the meantime, all of
the $$$ he collected was gone, and he was either required to 1-return
to the cards to the manufacturer for repair, which he couldn't afford,
or 2- there was a contractual clause that led to the manufacturer
being not liable for the cards being inoperative.

Either way, Conrad was out of the $$$, had no product, and no ability
to pay everyone back..... and is biding time trying to figure
everything out.

I am giving the dude the benefit of the doubt and assuming he isn't a
brazen thief, but his communication style (or lack thereof) doesn't
leave much hope at this point.

This is like a whodunnit mystery!

Next? Anyone want to take a crack as to what happened?

[A2CPM]

Hi!

On May 3, 11:16 am, IUnknown wrote:
<--- snip --->

> Next? Anyone want to take a crack as to what happened?

Looks to me like a pure scam, encouraged by how the community
reacted to the allegations against Mr. Diaz.

Willi

[Sean Fahey]

On Friday, May 3, 2013 10:16:31 AM UTC-5, IUnknown wrote:

> Next? Anyone want to take a crack as to what happened?

Everything you said may be true, but is now moot. His lack of communication is inexcusable at this point.

I like to think of myself as flexible, forgiving, patient - but my tolerance has been stretched past the breaking point. Unless he comes forward very soon, it's going to get unpleasant.

[gid...@sasktel.net]

> Next? Anyone want to take a crack as to what happened?

I don't believe anyone ever takes on a project like this when they are about to move. And I don't believe any money was spent on hardware.

Your only course is to file a complaint through Paypal. No matter where he moves to, he will still try to use Paypal for transactions.

[Conrad]

I didn't take on a project when I was planning on moving. Some things happened in my personal life and I now have no choice but to move. I'd like to clear the air with everyone here, so if anyone would like to give me a call, I will be sending out an email to everyone who preordered with a number they can reach me at since I have been having issues with emails being received.

[gid...@sasktel.net]

On Friday, 3 May 2013 18:22:35 UTC-6, Conrad wrote:
> I didn't take on a project when I was planning on moving. Some things happened in my personal life and I now have no choice but to move. I'd like to clear the air with everyone here, so if anyone would like to give me a call, I will be sending out an email to everyone who preordered with a number they can reach me at since I have been having issues with emails being received.

Be that as it may. Anyone wanting to protect their investment should still file a grievance. It is in no way a black mark against Conrad, as the grievance can still be cancelled. All the grievance does, is show Paypal that you have still not received your purchased item. And it keeps the door open for communication, and extends the 60 day period for the grievance limit. After receiving your item, you can still cancel the grievance and leave Conrad a positive feedback rating.

[Conrad]

You are absolutely right on that one. I think the period may have passed for filing a grievance, but if not, please go ahead and do so. It will make a lot of people feel a whole lot better, and I will not take it as an insult or anything, I would absolutely do the same thing if the tables were turned.

[IUnknown]

On May 3, 8:28 pm, Conrad <conrad.ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You are absolutely right on that one. I think the period may have passed for filing a grievance, but if not, please go ahead and do so. It will make a lot of people feel a whole lot better, and I will not take it as an insult or anything, I would absolutely do the same thing if the tables were turned.

Just return their money and remove all doubt.

[Conrad]

I would love to do that but right now I don't have it. Like I said in my other post, if the situation is not resolved in short order I will take out a loan and give a full refund to everyone. The preorder money (and some of my own) went to paying for the process. I'm not sitting on everyones money, I'm not sitting on any money in fact...

[gid...@sasktel.net]

On Friday, 3 May 2013 23:01:25 UTC-6, Conrad wrote:
> I would love to do that but right now I don't have it. Like I said in my other post, if the situation is not resolved in short order I will take out a loan and give a full refund to everyone. The preorder money (and some of my own) went to paying for the process. I'm not sitting on everyones money, I'm not sitting on any money in fact...

Conrad: You have yet to speak out what the problem is in regards to the hardware. Talking in riddles doesn't help. What Process? If you have all the pieces, there are some very talented hardware guys in this forum who can do their own soldering. You could offer what you have as a build-it-yourself project and at least mail out some kits.

[gid...@sasktel.net]

Never mind. Just saw the post under another topic.

[Apple2Steward]

"Conrad" <conrad...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:48b8c2a6-6c6a-4317...@googlegroups.com...

. . .the process . . .


Conrad - all of the vagueness and obfuscation is what drives
people to distraction!!

Try answering these questions _in detail_ so people understand
the situation:


1. Where are the cards physically located at this moment?
Vancouver?
2. Who has physical custody of the cards?
3. What shipper/carrier did you use? Who is the "shipping
agent"?
4. What legal entity is requiring the "updated paperwork" -
Canadian Customs, the carrier, your bank, the seller's bank, the
electronics company, who?
5. What exactly _is_ the "updated paperwork"? Give it a name!
6. What legal impediment or defect in the "paperwork" is
preventing you from taking possession of the cards - i.e. is it a
problem with payment, customs, title?
7. You originally said it was a problem with the spelling of
your name - how was your name misspelled?
8. How are you communicating with all of these stakeholders to
resolve the "process" - telephone mail, email, telegram, fax?
Why do any of these methods take so long?
9. You say you are "leaning on both the electronics company and
the shipping agent." What does that mean? What do each of these
parties need to provide in order to complete the transaction?
11. Have you inspected the shipment of cards? If so, where are
the pictures you promised?


Early on, you wrote a detailed post on the use of the bill of
lading in international trade. Now, the best you have done is to
make allusions to the "process." It is this lack of specificity
in your explanations that lends an aura of bullshit to all of
your recent representations.

[Adam]

Someone should call a cop in the town where this character is, otherwise your going to find it almost impossible to get your money back.

[Bill Buckels]

"Adam" <adam...@polyex.com> wrote:
>Someone should call a cop in the town where this character is, otherwise
>your going to find it almost impossible to get your money back.

I concur completely. That is exactly what I did under similar circumstances
in 2009. Please listen carefully:

1. I am Canadian (I may have said that before:). I live in Gimli Manitoba.
In late 2008, I sent money *DIRECTLY* to an established EBay Seller for a
number of items including an Apple GS.

2. The Seller is also Canadian, and lives in British Columbia, (about 6
hours away from where this character lives).

3. About 2 months later, in early 2009, after many excuses, and despite
constant communication, my Apple GS and the rest of my shipment had not
arrived.

4. I wrote a letter (email) "Without Prejudice" (see below). When I got
more excuses and no action on that lettter after an additional month or so,
I contacted my local RCMP detachment here in Manitoba. They called the local
RCMP detachment in British Columbia in the Seller's town.

5. The RCMP Member in British Columbia phoned me directly, obtained all my
facts and personally visited the couple. Then the BC Member phoned me
directly again, and reported his progress.

6. I had my shipment in Manitoba about a week later, with extras.

7. I have sucessfully retrieved funds through EBay and PayPal scammers
living in the USA in other similar circumstances. But in this case since the
Seller was Canadian, and I paid in advance with a Money Transfer through a
Canadian Bank who we both deal with, I was still not concerned. Just
disappointed, and resentful that I needed to expend unreasonable amounts of
time and effort to make this happen.

8. The Arm of the Law is very long in Canada when it comes to Canadians. If
this community has run out of patience, and if one of the purchasers is
Canadian, organize a complaint, compile a list, and use my method to
retrieve your funds.

If that is not successful, then ask to press Criminal Fraud Charges through
the RCMP Electronic Crime Division, and have the Crown proceed on your
behalf. Write a letter asking the Crown to order restitution.

Assuming that you get a conviction, then publish the details on-line,
giving name and facts. At that point, if you write for local papers, contact
one in the Seller's area, and write an an Article headlined "Local Man".
Local papers here pay around 15 cents a word for articles and also struggle
to sell advertising, so are generally happy to receive a professionally
written article for free. Press Releases are also well accepted and you can
send me PM for contacts and coaching.

Small Claims in Manitoba cost $25 and must be served, take time in court,
and after a successful judgement, the onus is on the Claimant to obtain an
Order of Garanshee, or to otherwise collect. From my experience I do not
consider them an option in cases that are not local, and consider promises
of character assasination and criminal charges more effective.

9. Below is text from my letter noted above (in 4.):

>Without Prejudice

>Unless I receive a tracking number, the merchandise as promised, or an
>electronic funds transfer today in the amount of $400.00 as full refund, I
>will be in contact with the RCMP both here and in your area, and with my
>bank, to retrieve the funds transfer of 2 months ago and to prefer
>criminal charges against the two of you. I will also be in contact with the
>electronic crime division here in Winnipeg to prefer additional criminal
>charges.

>I have been more than patient but my patience has run out. You have had
>more than sufficient time in the two month period since I forwarded these
>funds as advanced payment in full to deliver as promised, and despite your
>changing stories through that period I have given you the benefit of the
>doubt.

>Please, no more excuses. Just as surely and swiftly as I sent you payment
>when I said I would, I will also follow through with this as promised. If
>you provide a tracking number that is sent more recently than indicated and
>the goods arrive as promised I may be inclined to overlook the rest of
>this.

>You must also surely realize that I have all correspondence and phone
>calls documented at my end.

>Please govern yourselves according.

10. I never placed an order in this recent character's case, never even
heard of him before this, and up to recently I was extremely confident in
the integrity of *ALL* the vendors in the the Apple II Community.

But I have given-up on Ebay because it is in a foreign country. I have the
same misgivings about PayPal, and USA based shipments in General. I can Air
Express electronic goods from Germany to my door in 5 days for a fraction of
the cost of a USA based shipment which can take up to 5 weeks if it comes at
all, or undamaged.

11. Exceptions to this rule are many however.

I have not given-up on this Community and I won't, despite the fact that I
stand on the periphery (i.e. looking in instead of looking out). However,
your long-standing reputation as a community of honourable men may have
taken a couple of hits recently (albeit internally), so prompted by Adam's
suggestion, I felt that I should share one of my experiences that may
provide a remedy.

All the Best,

Bill

[Steven Hirsch]

On 05/05/2013 07:35 AM, Bill Buckels wrote:

> 5. The RCMP Member in British Columbia phoned me directly, obtained all my
> facts and personally visited the couple. Then the BC Member phoned me
> directly again, and reported his progress.
>
> 6. I had my shipment in Manitoba about a week later, with extras.

In most US localities, you'd be lucky to even get a phone call returned by the
detectives - much less get any concrete action. Unless the scamming gets VERY
egregious, involves large amounts of money or anything remotely related to
"terrists(sic)" it's considered a civil matter.

[Conrad]

Hi everyone,

I am just dropping by to check in with everyone. Apple2Steward, When I return to my house tomorrow and can confirm every answer 100% from my paperwork, I will post to you all the answers to your big list of questions. I would not like to state something incorrectly and have it draw a whole further slew of accusations...

To everyone, I can see the community has run out of patience with what's going on, so I will be refunding everyone as soon as I can put the funds together. Tomorrow I will be posting several of my classic machines for sale (Atari Falcon with CT-63 and CTPCI, Amiga 4000 with CyberstormPPC, CyberVisionPPC, and loads of other upgrades and accessories, and so on) and as the funds arrive I will refund everyone. Once I get the cards all sorted out we can figure out if anyone is still interested. The idea that people are saying I am scamming I find to be incomprehensible though... Would I give out all my personal details to anyone who was interested if I was trying to commit fraud? Anyway it's meaningless to argue it, everyone has already made up their mind, so everyone will get a refund as soon as I have the money.

[STYNX]

Conrad:
> ... everyone will get a refund as soon as I have the money.

Hi there Conrad,

i wish that you keep my money as long as you need it. Tell the other people what problems there are, and give some details. They may give you some time to solve them. It's your decision.

I will still believe in Conrad until _proven_ otherwise.

-Jonas

[D Finnigan]

It looks like the lesson to be learned for all of us here in the Apple II
community is NOT to preorder anything. This one went wrong, the pre-order
for my book went wrong. When it's just a one-man project, like all of these
projects are, there are screw-ups at the start, and the best thing to do is
to simply wait until final release time.

--
]DF$
Apple II Book: http://macgui.com/newa2guide/
Usenet: http://macgui.com/usenet/ <-- get posts by email!
Apple II Web & Blog hosting: http://a2hq.com/

[Apple2Steward]

"Conrad" <conrad...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:12bc90bc-222e-466a...@googlegroups.com...
Hi everyone,

Apple2Steward, When I return to my house tomorrow and can confirm
every answer 100% from my paperwork, I will post to you all the
answers to your big list of questions.

.. snip ..

Anyway it's meaningless to argue it, everyone has already made up
their mind, so everyone will get a refund as soon as I have the
money.

**********

The point of the list of questions is to show you the way to pour
oil upon the troubled waters!

If the reasons for the long delay were explained in explicit
detail, I am sure that most would be happy to give you more time.
Making sure everyone knows what's going on, what to expect and
when the end is near, is the best way to keep from selling your
possessions to refund your customers' money.

There is some science on the psychology of waiting:

* Anxiety makes waits seem longer.
* Uncertain waits are longer than known, finite waits.
* Unexplained waits are longer than explained waits.

http://davidmaister.com/articles/the-psychology-of-waiting-lines/

[osgeld]

that is exactly why I have chosen to refuse the surprising amount of preorder requests for my virtual serial host project. I would be in the same boat, I said that crap would be out october 2012, its now may 2013!

the lesson here is for both buyer and seller. Buyers, dont toss your cash to the wind and hope. Sellers, despite how much you know, it will screw up, dont take people's money and get stuck in a jam by unforeseen situations.

If conrad had followed the sellers advice and funded out of pocket with the risk he would not have a mob darn near asking for blood on his ass. Sure if it failed he would be out, but you gotta expect the best you can do is break even in a limited community for a limited machine and measure the involvement vs risk to see if its acceptable.

If it sounds like I speak with hindsight, its really not, this is how it goes in electronics ... great you just spent 1000 dollars on prototypes for your customer to completley change where they put the mounting post's, or your supplier has a 12 week lead time on a part you just ran out of, and their alternate is not qualified for your application... it just never ends.

From someone who DOES have electronic development and production experiance, you are lucky to only be a few steps behind the carrot

like my recent airport runway light project "yea we run 4.6vac" for 9 months, thousands of dollars of developing 25 prototypes, just to get out to cleveland and find out that 4.6 vac is max, 2.6 vac is min, and we are standing out there in a runway in freaking january with a thumb up our butt.

just the way it goes

[Conrad]

@Apple2Steward: I understand this, and I will post the answers when I get home tomorrow and confirm everything. Regardless of all that though, this experience has been too stressful on myself and my family, with threats of legal action and such things. Even if my answers placated everyone for now, what happens if something else goes wrong? It seems that Murphey's Law is quite accurate, since I have done similar transactions flawlessly and on schedule many times for myself or for an employer, but when my ass is the one on the line, everything falls apart.

What happens if I take possession of the cards and find out there is a manufacturing error, or the box has been mishandled and they are mostly/all destroyed, or I have been scammed and shipped a box of bricks? How would people feel then? Do you think that they would be understanding, or out for blood? Hell, how would I feel? I would probably die of a heart attack on the spot! No, regardless of the climate here after tomorrow, I would rather part with treasured possessions to make sure that everyone is happy, and they can choose to re-order when they are ready to ship out, if they so choose.

I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time, and I hope that you will not think less of this project when it finally does ship out. Thank you though everyone for taking the time to stand by me through it. You've all shown more patience than you would be expected to, and I appreciate that.

[Steve Nickolas]

On Sun, 5 May 2013, osgeld wrote:

> that is exactly why I have chosen to refuse the surprising amount of
> preorder requests for my virtual serial host project. I would be in the
> same boat, I said that crap would be out october 2012, its now may 2013!

Still not as bad as the delays in the Atari 7800 Expansion Module.

-uso.

[D Finnigan]

Conrad wrote:
> I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time, and I hope that you will not think
> less of this project when it finally does ship out. Thank you though
> everyone for taking the time to stand by me through it. You've all shown
> more patience than you would be expected to, and I appreciate that.
>

Based on your posting history to this newsgroup, I don't think you're a
scammer. You haven't just suddenly appeared with this project and
disappeared shortly afterward.

Anyone still remember that guy a few months ago who was asking for source
code? He just appeared and disappeared.

[Conrad]

@D Finnigan: Thanks for that, I really appreciate hearing this, and I also really appreciate you taking the time to post it.

When I get home this evening around 11ish I will post the information that has been requested.

I have narrowed the email issue down to something to do with my main workhorse computer. If its switched off (which it never is under normal circumstances) there doesn't seem to be any issue. I've never seen or heard of anything like it... Anyway I am now receiving emails without issue, so please contact me at my main address if you need to and I will be happy to reply as soon as I can.

I have received many emails with all sorts of support from members of this community, and it literally brought a tear to my eye. Thank you so much for continuing to stand by me. It means a lot to me!

[Erik Holter]

Conrad, just to make one thing clear: You should NOT pay me back at this point in time, and you should certainly NOT sell off any parts of your computer collection for my sake!

When I did the pre-order for the TWGS clone, I did something it seems like more people maybe should have done. I actually thought through the risks of the project and my motivation for still supporting it.

Conrad did at an early stage provide some very useful information:
- The boards were to be made by a “no-name” Chinese manufacturer, and the name of this manufacturer would not be shared with any of us for further quality assurance
- No prototype was made and received to verify the skills and trust of the vendor in question. The production process was described, but no pictures of the product were shared
- The only financial backing was Conrad himself and his “one man business”, requiring pre-funding from the rest of us to move on.

All these are clear red lights!

I therefore considered it to be a very risky project, at best resulting in a working TWGS board, but not unlikely in a non-working board or nothing at all. Worst case it also could be a scam (although I didn’t think so at that time and still doesn’t think it is).

So why did I still chose to pre-order? For two simple reasons:
1. The hope, or dream, of getting an accelerator board at a non-ebay price :-)
2. The interest in supporting these kind of initiatives through sharing of risk

Regarding #2: Making a TWGS clone has a limited business potential due to the size of the Apple II community. As someone mentioned Conrad is a rather young man without a regular job, and still (unless it is a scam) he very optimistically and enthusiastically decided to take on the challenge. Me at the other hand is a man in my "best age", having a regular job, dreaming of getting a new TWGS. Does it sound familiar?

Was it then really fair that Conrad should carry all the risk? Would a project like this come to life if no-one shared that risk? My personal answer to these questions was clearly no. I therefore did make a pre-order, and it sure was a pleasure. Stupid or not :-)

Looking at the messages that has been posted I must admit I find some of them rather unpleasant to read. Yes, Conrad has certainly failed big time in providing sufficient information. But starting to encourage people to contact his wife, call the police, or other similar actions is certainly something I would not do.

For now I therefore chose just to relax and see what happens. Heck, if the only thing Conrad gets from his supplier is a box full of bricks, I will ask him to write TWGS on “my” brick and send it to me!! I will keep it on my shelf to remind me of the cost of every now and then being brave taking on some well deserved risk :-) That being said, until that brick safely is located on my shelf, I still chose to fully support Conrad and to be optimistic on behalf of this project.

For the future there are a lot of things to learn for everyone, not at least for Conrad. But for the buyers I would encourage everyone to think through the risk of putting money into pre-ordering, instead of getting too angry if the money later on is lost.

Hmm, thinking about it it actually would be a bit cool to have a TWGS brick on my Apple II shelf… :-)

Regards,
Erik Holter

[Conrad]

@STYNX: By the way, I haven't forgotten about you. I will reply to your email tonight when I can sit down and write a reply that is of suitable length to express everything I need to. For now, let me just say thank you.

[Conrad]

@Erik: I'm speechless... You've moved me immensely... Thank you... This kind of thing is what makes this worth-while...

You're right that it was a huge failure on my part to not give regular updates on things, and there is no excuse. Let me just say that is was not lazyness or avoidance though, as too often happens it seems, life got in the way, but I still should have made regular updates here, it doesn't take much time or effort. It will not happen again. If I am alive, conscious, and possess the ability to control my appendages to operate a computer I will make posts here every day or two at the most.

For you, for all those like you, for all those who have placed trust and faith in me, for all those who handed money to me sight-unseen with no assurance of success but my word, I swear that I will deliver this product even if I have to have it remade from scratch! Thanks to the generosity of the community I have another TWGS in full working order, and I have already investigated other organizations that do these kind of projects, and I have contacted the most highly recommended ones for quotes on the full reverse engineering of and the production of the TWGS, just as a contingency. As the quotes come in I will post them in full here. Don't get me wrong, this is not something I am expecting to have to do, but damned if I will let this project fail, no matter what! Even if I have to sell everything I own to bankroll it to the end, I will do so! I will not let you all down!

By the way Erik, you will be getting a brick along with your card, just as a memento.

[Sean Fahey]

I've had many more positive experiences than bad ones when dealing with other people in the Apple II community. The irony for me is that practically all of my good experiences are with people I haven't met personally but only 'know' through CSA2 or some other Internet forum venue. Yet, the majority of my bad experiences (especially lately) are with a few people I know personally and who are supposedly my good friends.

It's strange that some people that know me and call me friend feel they can take advantage of me - or that I let them, for the sake of our perceived 'friendship'.

Fortunately, not all my friends are like that.

[Erik Holter]

Good to hear Conrad! I will reserve space on my shelf. But for the brick delivery in particular, please chose the strategy of an unreliable vendor: Pick a light brick to reduce your shipping cost :-)

Regards,
Erik

[Jerome Vernet]

Le 06/05/13 21:20, Conrad a écrit :

>
> You're right that it was a huge failure on my part to not give regular updates on things, and there is no excuse.

Take the time to make a web page about this project, summarizing
everything, and update the thing.

I'm still on the list, when you will have the working card !


Jerome

[IUnknown]

> Conrad did at an early stage provide some very useful information:
> - The boards were to be made by a “no-name” Chinese manufacturer, and the name of this manufacturer would not be shared with any of us for further quality assurance
> - No prototype was made and received to verify the skills and trust of the vendor in question. The production process was described, but no pictures of the product were shared
> - The only financial backing was Conrad himself and his “one man business”, requiring pre-funding from the rest of us to move on.
>
> All these are clear red lights!
>

All of which I pointed out, expressed doubt about and conrad took as a
personal attack.

> Was it then really fair that Conrad should carry all the risk?

Yes, he should carry all the risk because he carries all of the
profits.

>
> Looking at the messages that has been posted I must admit I find some of them rather unpleasant to read. Yes, Conrad has certainly failed big time in providing sufficient information. But starting to encourage people to contact his wife, call the police, or other similar actions is certainly something I would not do.
>

When someone collects a bunch of money, provides no/nebulous
information, disappears for weeks on end and STILL has nothing to show
for it.... then yes, people are well within their rights to leverage
any legal mechanism to obtain satisfaction.

Distasteful or not, it is fair and reasonable.

You seem to forget that the ONLY person who hasn't fulfilled ANY
promises to date is Conrad. The people complaining about the current
state of affairs are not at fault.

[Conrad]

You are right that there is no blame on anyone but myself and others are not at fault for complaining that things are behind schedule or that I was sporradic with communication. I do find it interesting that you say I am the only one profiting from this venture... For one I already said I'm taking a small loss on each card but for the sake of arguement let's say I'm breaking even. That's not taking a profit... Even putting finance aside though, wouldn't the community profit from new accelerators being available? I'm not trying to get into an arguement with you or provoke you, I'm just trying to understand why you'd say that...

[Michael Black]

This isn't google.

It's not obvious who you are talking to, since you haven't bothered
quoting whoever you are replying to. Just because at google everything is
on the same page and likely in threaded sequence doesn't mean everyone
sees it that way.

You just come across as talking to yourself when you don't quote.

Michael

[Conrad]

>This isn't google.
>
>It's not obvious who you are talking to, since you haven't bothered >quoting whoever you are replying to. Just because at google everything >is on the same page and likely in threaded sequence doesn't mean >everyone sees it that way.
>
>You just come across as talking to yourself when you don't quote.
>
>Michael

My appologies, I'm on my cellphone and I thought it quoted automatically. I will do it manually from now on. Let me repost.

[Anthony Lawther]

Conrad <conrad...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

Even if my answers placated everyone for now, what happens if something
else goes wrong? It seems that Murphey's Law is quite accurate, since I
have done similar transactions flawlessly and on schedule many times for
myself or for an employer, but when my ass is the one on the line,
everything falls apart.

I apply "Sod's Law": "Murphy was an optimist"

That makes some of the posts here seem a bit over the top, but as many
organisations recognise, Fear Uncertainty and Doubt can be a powerful
force.

Keep the updates coming and I'd be surprised if people stay angry.

<snip>

Regards,
Anthony.

[Antoine Vignau]

My two cents:

You are either taken for a ride or Conrad has chosen a far too difficult project to begin with. And my heart goes to the ride...

Each time you ask for information or clarification, you get no answer (will come back home tonight, do not get my emails)

After two months, what do you have? Absolutely N*O*T*H*I*N*G and you are still optimistic!

Sorry, I do not believe in such a project,
Antoine.longlivetheboat.us

[Raymond Wiker]

Ever heard of the "In-Reply-To:" header? Any worthy NNTP client should be
able to locate the parent post using this header.

[gid...@sasktel.net]

> My appologies, I'm on my cellphone and I thought it quoted automatically. I will do it manually from now on. Let me repost.

Good you have a cel phone with an internet connection. I believe someone said you are in B.C., Canada. I have dealings with shipping companies.

Give me the name of the shipping company you are dealing with. I will call them and have it all resolved in 10 minutes.

Post the name of the company back here with your cel phone.

[Michael Black]

Why should I have to go looking? The idiots using google can't be
bothered quoting, yet there's a reason why quoting has been a part of
usenet practically forever.

It used to be you could tell who was posting from WebTV, they too lacked
any quoting. My reaction to that was to ignore such messages, dimiss them
as village idiots (and it never helped that the same non-quoting posters
often seemed to post quite a bit yet have very little to say).

Now it's happening with google. And it's made worse because not only is
it easy for people using google to reply without quoting, but google still
hasn't fixed the bug that allows replies to messages older than 30 days.

So we get replies to 15 year old messages and without quoting there is
absolutely no context. The only reason it's easy to tell such messages is
because they aren't replying to a message that currently exists.

I'm tired of the idiots using google. They complain about spam by
changing subject headers and then leaving the message empty, which works
fine if you're viewing usenet at google but it's only trash for the rest
of us. This is on top of the fact that the spam they see may only be at
google, with the good newsservers already keeping out that spam. I'm
tired of seeing these replies to old messages, real cluelessness on the
part of the posters who reply to old messages. I'm tired of seeing
messages that don't use any quoting and it's now pretty much coming from
google.

I'm tired of how google gets to define usenet.

Michael

[Sean Fahey]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 11:22:57 AM UTC-5, Michael Black wrote:

> Why should I have to go looking? The idiots using google can't be
> bothered quoting, yet there's a reason why quoting has been a part of
> usenet practically forever.

That's weird. When I hit reply (using Google Groups) it quotes the whole message by default. I often choose to judiciously edit the quoted portion down for brevity and relativity when I reply.

What *I* dislike is when people quote 50, 100 or more lines of a post and then reply with just one or two words, or something trivial like a non-helpful 'LOL'.

Hey, as long as we're not top posting... right?

[Steve Nickolas]

On Tue, 7 May 2013, Sean Fahey wrote:

> Hey, as long as we're not top posting... right?

LOL JEOPARDY POSTING

*runs for cover*

-uso.

[nyder]

I'm using Google (Reader, for what, 2 more months?), I just hit reply and look at wtf is above me? The previous message. While I understand your frustration that not everyone is Internet Savoy, I'm not sure what you are talking about.

[Ivan X]

You can be tired of it all you want, and I think Google's influence over the internet as a whole is a much bigger problem, but you are one of about six people left still using an NNTP client. This is no doubt because very few (any?) ISP's still provide an NNTP server. (Calling my cable company and asking for that info would be amusing. Hello? Level 3 support? Newswatcher doesn't work! What? BUT IT USED TO WORK!)

And it's not as if there was ever an established standard as to exactly how a Usenet client should reply, quote, thread, etc. I don't like the Google UE for anything they do, but it exists as a means of accessing csa2, I don't have to pay for it (other than letting them mine all of my personal information, of course). And Google quotes replies by default, so I don't even know what you're talking about.

None of us like it when things we like change, but you can pretty much count on it happening. Damn, four years ago our favorite diner that had been there 45 years or something closed with almost no notice and it's left a hole in our hearts that will never be filled. That's a far greater tragedy than that these kids today don't know how to use the internet properly, like we did back before the web ruined everything.

[osgeld]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 11:22:57 AM UTC-5, Michael Black wrote:

now get off my lawn!

[Conrad]

Just stopping by to check in guys. I got in very late last night, and it seems it will be that way again tonight. Oh well, who needs sleep...

I've had quite a few emails from preorder clients telling me to not refund, but I feel that I still should make some sort of good faith gesture to the community to show that I am in this until its done, whatever it takes.

So, there's two options here, and I'd like to hear from the preorderees as to which one they would like, and I will do whichever they choose, or if they can't come to a consensus, then majority rules.

Option 1: Do as I said, sell off classic computers and refund everyone from the cash, proceed with the project, and retake orders when cards are ready to ship.

Option 2: The community names a caretaker, someone who's integrity is unquestionable. I send them (at my expense) several classic computers with a value that (more than) covers the preorders that have been made as collateral for the preorder payments. The project proceeds, and should I fail to deliver, the community can easily sell off the machines and are not out a cent.

Either way, it will place all the risk of this project on me, and it should put to rest the accusations of taking people for a ride or being a scammer or anything else. Whenever you all have made a decision, I will follow through with it. And no, I didn't forget about Steward's questions, its just been a long few days.

Conrad

[Sean Fahey]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 3:28:24 AM UTC-5, Conrad wrote:

> So, there's two options here, and I'd like to hear from the preorderees as to which one they would like, and I will do whichever they choose, or if they can't come to a consensus, then majority rules.

Meh, I don't see either option as being ideal. No one wants to see another person's retro collection broken up. That's too close to home. Option #2 would be onerous for the caretaker of the held collection (if you were to default). They'd have to sell and ship the gear, collect payments, fairly redistribute the proceeds to project participants. That's a lot of time and effort.

[STYNX]

Conrad wrote:
> Option 1: Do as I said, sell off classic computers and refund everyone from the cash, proceed with the project, and retake orders when cards are ready to ship.
> Option 2: The community names a caretaker, someone who's integrity is unquestionable. I send them (at my expense) several classic computers with a value that (more than) covers the preorders that have been made as collateral for the preorder payments. The project proceeds, and should I fail to deliver, the community can easily sell off the machines and are not out a cent.

------------
just my 2 cents:
1. Get everyone who wants to bail out together and pay them their investment back. (to stop the whining)
2. Everyone who is still supporting you will have to take part in the risk.
3. Give a deadline (2 weeks or a month) until one has to decide.
4. Make a official and public "refund-list".
5. If everything goes to hell offer the supporters a partly refund (50%) possibly in the future.
6. Rise the price of the TWGS Clone to all non-supporters and future buyers. ($250 or something)
--------
Make absolutely clear that these are the options.
Make the amount of payed money public, as well as your costs and refunds.

Supporters may take part in the risk, everyone else has to leave _now_ and cannot complain afterwards.

Conrad, TRANSPARENCY is the key!

-Jonas

[STYNX]

I wrote:
> just my 2 cents:
> ... bla bla bla ...
> -Jonas

... still in reply to Conrad:

We are all individuals, the "community" cannot decide for anyone!
Everyone has to make up their own mind and decide whats right for him (or her).
There are no easy ways to make things right again.
Stop running in circles and make decisions.

-Jonas

[geekyd...@gmail.com]

Hi Conrad, I am little confused on the current situation on your project. Has the TWGS been cloned but is sitting with a shipping company in Canada, but there is now an issue in collecting the items which are unresolvable? Or was the TWGS (for whatever reason) not cloned at all?

I think we all want this to happen, just some real tangible answers to things and photos would go a massive way towards making people happy.

Drew

[Neo Winston]

Hi Conrad,

Any updates?

Thanks,
Neo Winston

[Conrad]

Hi everyone,

Just checking in here. No real changes as of yet. I appreciate your point Sean, that neither option is ideal. Stynx, I think that your plan sounds like a good way to go, with all those who wish a refund getting one, and those who decide to ride it out continuing to do so. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others as well though. I want the rest of this project to be decided by all those who have taken a stake in this, that way there can be no accusations of things being underhanded. I am still in the middle of a transition here, with barely any time to sit down and even write, but I am still handling the back side of things on a daily basis.

Drew, the situation stands like this: The cards have been cloned, and are in port. I have not been allowed to inspect or collect them due to a foul-up with the paperwork on the part of someone on the other end, specifically my name has been spelled (significantly) wrong on several important documents (specifically shipping documents that name the person who is to claim the goods on this side). I have been assured that this issue is resolvable, but things are dragging out longer than I had hoped. This is why I am talking of refunds. Clearly people's moods have soured, and there has been some talk by a few people of legal action against me, with the word "scammer" having been thrown around a bit. This is of course the last thing I want. Hence, the refunds. This way, there will be no doubts as to my integrity, and I will be able to deal with this situation as I am able without fear of reprisal from the community. A few people have stepped in and said that they wish to keep their money with me, either temporarily, or until the the end, whatever that might be. For this I am grateful, but for the majority of people, returning their money is the right thing to do at this point, and what will be done. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about doing this, hence the options I have suggested. I hope this answers some of your questions for now Drew.

To everyone: Thank you for your continued patience. I'm making an effort to come here at least every few days, so that everyone can be sure that I am staying on top of things. I think this alone has helped raise spirits and confidence a lot, but anyway, thanks so much for standing by!

Conrad

[STYNX]

Conrad wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>... ...
> Just checking in here. No real changes as of yet...
>... ...
> To everyone: Thank you for your continued patience. I'm ...
> ... ...
> Conrad

Hi there Conrad,

Nice to hear something from you again. BUT:
You have a site (http://retrologycomputing.blogspot.de/) for your venture, use it!
Put INFO/NEWS on it for god's sake!

I can understand that sometimes RL collides with our dreams and hopes. But you should give us something to work with. If you keep being prissy about the problems, you will only have to face more of them. Give us updates on a regular basis (once a week or something) about the project, your work or anything ;-). Give us something real, even a photo of the said documents (with erased names if needed) is ok. Not this vague "please bear with me" stuff. There are several Guys here who might even be able to help you with the problems if you would ask directly. You will be astonished how much support you cold get by simply _asking_.

In conclusion: You need to be more transparent (and public) in order to get trough with this (without someone going nuclear). We just want to know! If you need a month, half a year or even more time, just say it.

..... still, thanks for the info though

Good luck and a nice weekend
-Jonas

[Apple2Steward]

"Conrad" <conrad...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:497dde87-fce6-4564...@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:33:04 PM UTC-7, Neo Winston wrote:
> Hi Conrad,
>
>
>
> Any updates?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neo Winston

>>Hi everyone,

"in port"
"the paperwork"
"spelled wrong"
"important documents"
"shipping documents"


What weird thing is it that you never give a single concrete
detail about this situation?

[Steven Hirsch]

On 05/12/2013 01:51 AM, Conrad wrote:

> Drew, the situation stands like this: The cards have been cloned, and are
> in port. I have not been allowed to inspect or collect them due to a
> foul-up with the paperwork on the part of someone on the other end,
> specifically my name has been spelled (significantly) wrong on several
> important documents (specifically shipping documents that name the person
> who is to claim the goods on this side). I have been assured that this
> issue is resolvable, but things are dragging out longer than I had hoped.

Have you considered engaging a lawyer with experience in import/export issues?

[Michael Black]

Yes, it sounds like the issue is simply needing to know how to get this
done. The people who do this on a routine basis know the proper ways to
do it.

Enough time has now gone by that I would have thought a second set of
paperwork could have been sent from the factory or at least confirming
paperwork, to solve this. But maybe the language issue comes into play
there.

This really is about doing something nobody would do up to a few years ago
unless they were in the business, it's no surprise that there are problems
for the novice.

Michael

[Neo Winston]

Am I missing something or the trail went cold again?

[IUnknown]

On May 17, 8:27 pm, Neo Winston <marioserg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Am I missing something or the trail went cold again?

Of course it did.

Conrad will come back in a couple of days, placate everyone, telling
them about some new paperwork issue... and offer to sell his left arm
to science in order to pay someone back.

The "community" will feel sorry for him, fail to hold him accountable
and find some way to justify the fact that they (in my opinion) have
been robbed.

The only way for this situation to get resolved is for Conrad to do
one of the following:

1 - Give every penny back to the buyers.
2 - Resolve the situation with the shipper/paperwork/??? and deliver
working cards.
3 - Come back to this newsgroup and offer daily updates about what is
happening, and be detailed and transparent in the process.

Until then, Conrad has no credibility. Period.

[Conrad]

Hi everyone,

Just popping by for an update. Everyone who has not requested that I keep their money is getting a refund in short order, since no one really said they would want to take machines as collateral. I waited a week to see if anyone would put in their opinion on it or offer to be the caretaker of my machines as collateral, but since no one wants to I will be putting them up for sale.

@IUnkown I've not asked anyone for pity or anything of the sort. I offered the other option only because I had such an outpouring of support and people telling me not to sell my machines to refund peoples cash. Since no one has really stated they would be willing to do that, and as Sean said, it is a big responsibility, I will just sell them off and be done with it. I suppose I will put them on eBay unless anyone has another suggestion for a place to sell them.

There has been no movement on the problem with the paperwork, so I am looking into getting some sort of legal advice on what my recourse is. If it does come to that it will probably take ages, so a refund is the logical step anyway.

[STYNX]

>I suppose I will put them on eBay unless anyone has another suggestion for a place to sell them.

If you use eBay, sell everything as separate. Especially accelerators, memory expansions, and so on. You will get more money out of it. Selling a complete System is a 'nicer' way, but it will fetch less than the parts. Do not sell too much at once. Good Luck Conrad. (please post the auctions, some might be interested)
-Jonas

[Neo Winston]

Unfortunately at this point I have to publicly request a refund, and if in the future the project really takes off or the current issues are resolved, I'll certainly buy a card.

What amazes me the most isn't that Conrad is failing to give us regular updates as promised, but the fact that he couldn't produce one single piece of concrete evidence. Not a document, not a picture, absolutely nothing, but only scarce and vague words.

Conrad, please don't just assume that we should really believe that the proof is in the pudding.

And beforehand I do thank you for providing me a refund ASAP.

Best regards,
Neo Winston

[IUnknown]

> What amazes me the most isn't that Conrad is failing to give us regular updates as promised, but the fact that he couldn't produce one single piece of concrete evidence. Not a document, not a picture, absolutely nothing, but only scarce and vague words.
>

^^ THIS. +++++

What COMPLETELY amazes me is how he accepted shipment of the cards
without verifying that a single one of them actually worked.

Fedex handles airbills in nearly every industrial center of the world.
If this were my build, I would have requested that they 3-day-air a
single card/engineering sample to me for verification and validation.
In the worst case, he would be out the money, but at least he would
have had some proof that working cards were inbound.... along with
pictures, videos, etc.

It is comical to think that any reputable manufacturer would have
taken offense to this. Engineering samples are commonplace in the
electronics manufacturing world.

[osgeld]

I think you may be overstating this a tad bit. Engineering samples usually come out of the engineering department, you whip up a board, have 10 made at a kick in the balls price, and proceed to make them up yourself.

you just dont send something off to some random fab and expect them to verify every functional detail, especially on a machine that is at best a niche hobby market in 2013 using custom software generated logic chips

I should know, I am the guy who has to make them all up, and run them though brutal tests and report my findings back to the real engineers with wallpaper.

[Apple2Steward]

"osgeld" <ke...@hackaday.com> wrote in message
news:99f40b1b-8391-4875...@googlegroups.com...

But isn't that what Conrad says his friends in China did for him?


" I send the company an Apple IIGS ROM01, a spare ROM01
motherboard, and 2 TransWarpGS cards in working order. This was
not required, but for the sake of speed I provided them with all
the components necessary to assemble a working TWGS card so they
could test their work faster.

* * *

They produce a board from their GERBER file, assemble it and test
it in the provided IIGS against the second working original TWGS
I provided them by running various tests that I outlined for
them. Once it passes, which it did, they produce my initial run
of 50 cards and send them out to me as soon as I pay the second
half of the fee."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.apple2/WQS9qFjfrF0/09O8koz47iIJ

Since you do this for a living, does this sound credible?

I'm amused that the same company that booted up a GS (how? -
floppy, CFFA, microdrive) and ran "various tests," couldn't be
troubled to send Conrad a few cellphone pictures.

[osgeld]

I dunno, I have never sent anything over to be cloned, but sending stuff via boat is not that cost prohibitive, and if I have learned one thing about Chinese fab's, its that they will do almost anything for the biz

[Sean Fahey]

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:18:27 PM UTC-5, Conrad wrote:

> There has been no movement on the problem with the paperwork, so I am looking into getting some sort of legal advice on what my recourse is. If it does come to that it will probably take ages, so a refund is the logical step anyway.

How soon until you begin to process refunds?

Why doesn't your Chinese mfg firm send a revised bill of lading document to the shipper? If they haven't been paid yet, I would expect they would be eager to do anything to help you out.

[Conrad]

My items will be up for sale by the end of the week (Saturday-Sunday), which is when I can retrieve them from storage, photograph them, and list them. I will post the relevant links here so people can watch the auctions. As soon as the items sell and the money begins coming in from those sales, I will begin processing refunds, which I will do in the order that payments were received (unless anyone has any objections to that) and that will be that.

As for why it seems like I've been left hanging the firm I'm working with, I cannot rightly say. Language might be part of the issue, but I'm almost getting the feeling like I'm being given the run-around. I've dealt with them before, so I am still giving them the benefit of the doubt, but like I had mentioned before, I am also exploring my legal options. Regardless, this will not affect any of you, you will all get your money back and the risk will be on me if this leads to a bad conclusion.

Conrad

[Neo Winston]

Hi Conrad,

Thanks for the update.

Neo Winston

[Conrad]

Hey everyone,

I've taken the first machine from storage, an Atari Falcon 030 with a CT-63 100MHz '060 card, 512MB of RAM, CT-PCI PCI interface, and NetUSBee ethernet/USB interface. Do you think I should post it on eBay, AmiBay, or...? What would be best do you think? I've never sold classic machines online, only bought them. What do you guys think would be the best place to sell?

Conrad

[osgeld]

atariage

[Sean Fahey]

On Monday, May 27, 2013 7:11:37 PM UTC-5, Conrad wrote:

> I've taken the first machine from storage, an Atari Falcon 030 with a CT-63 100MHz '060 card, 512MB of RAM, CT-PCI PCI interface, and NetUSBee ethernet/USB interface. Do you think I should post it on eBay, AmiBay, or...? What would be best do you think? I've never sold classic machines online, only bought them. What do you guys think would be the best place to sell?

Advertise it everywhere, that you're selling it on eBay. How much is it worth? I'm Atari-ignorant but it sure sounds fancy.

[Conrad]

@Sean That is a good idea to do it like that. The value will vary depending on peoples mood and whether I sell it as a package or individually, but I have seen the CT-63 sell by itself for around $800, the Falcon for $400-500, and the CTPCI for around $300.

[Sean Fahey]

On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:53:25 AM UTC-5, Conrad wrote:
> @Sean That is a good idea to do it like that. The value will vary depending on peoples mood and whether I sell it as a package or individually, but I have seen the CT-63 sell by itself for around $800, the Falcon for $400-500, and the CTPCI for around $300.

>>>

Buyers prefer bundled systems, but that isn't whats best for you. It's almost always more profitable to break premium parts out of a system and sell them separately.

For buyers who want the entire package, you can extend them a favor by listing the Falcon CPU first, any minor peripherals, THEN the premium items LAST, each ending in 5-10 minute increments apart.

This works to your advantage because if someone wants the whole package, they will feel compelled to go all in, to get everything. It will also likely increase competition.

It's also worth mentioning in the descriptions of each auction that Item A was formerly part of an integrated working system, which includes Item B, C, D, etc.
also up for auction.

[David Chiu]

If you don't mind the fuss, it should fetch a handsome sum on fleaBay.

[IUnknown]

Where did you list it? I might bid on it :)

[Conrad]

Hi everyone,

I have just been waiting for some information from eBay and I don't think it will be realistically possible for me to sell my items there, so it will have to be through forums only. Since I have never sold an item on eBay before, they will hold the funds for some period of time after the sale, which is their anti-fraud policy apparently. Seeing as this would just create another huge delay, I think we can all agree that selling on a forum is probably the way to go.

Are their any forums that any of you know that allow an auction-style sale, because all the ones I am aware of only allow straight-up sales. I will wait 24 hours for a reply to this question, and if no one knows of any such place or none exists, than I will just put it up on the usual places (AmiBay, AtariAge, Atari Forum, etc)

Also please note I will be out of contact for most of tomorrow and most of Saturday, but I will be able to come on and check replies and questions and whatnot late in the evening. Just giving you all a heads up.

[Conrad]

Hi again guys,

Just one thing I forgot. Here are a couple of the pictures showing the Falcon and CT-63 that I will be selling. More pics will be included with the sale, but I just thought everyone would like to see.

Overall shot: http://imageshack.us/a/img51/62/20130523215038.jpg

Overall shot with case removed: http://imageshack.us/a/img541/6138/20130523215749.jpg

Closeup on CT-63: http://imageshack.us/a/img826/9114/20130523215942.jpg

Conrad

[Apple2Steward]

Conrad wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have just been waiting for some information from eBay and I
> don't
> think it will be realistically possible for me to sell my items
> there, so it will have to be through forums only. Since I have
> never
> sold an item on eBay before, they will hold the funds for some
> period
> of time after the sale, which is their anti-fraud policy
> apparently.
> Seeing as this would just create another huge delay, I think we
> can
> all agree that selling on a forum is probably the way to go.
>

Once again, Conrad, you disseminate vagueness.

The actual ebay policy is as follows:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/payment_unavailable.html

First of all, why are you "waiting for . . . information from
ebay" - isn't it available on their website? Probably the same
reason why you are still waiting for your "friends" in China to
send you an amended bill of lading. Oh, wait a minute, it's not
a bill of lading, it's mysterious "paperwork." Or the same
reason why you maintained that it took a ship 57 days to transit
from China to Vancouver.

On 4/17, the problem was that someone misspelled your name on
"some paperwork." Now you're "waiting for . . .information from
ebay."

And the only sales venue that would actually afford a buyer some
protection, you can't use because it would create a "huge delay."

Amazing!

[D Finnigan]

Conrad wrote:
> Since I have never sold an item on eBay
> before, they will hold the funds for some period of time after the sale,
> which is their anti-fraud policy apparently. Seeing as this would just
> create another huge delay, I think we can all agree that selling on a
> forum
> is probably the way to go.

How does this prevent you from sending the item to the winning bidder?

The whole design is to encourage new sellers like yourself to ship the item,
then you get paid when the recipient acknowledges having received it.

--
]DF$
Apple II Book: http://macgui.com/newa2guide/
Usenet: http://macgui.com/usenet/ <-- get posts by email!
Apple II Web & Blog hosting: http://a2hq.com/

[BLuRry]

Correct -- It really is designed to protect the buyer and the seller. Just make sure that you use PayPal for the transaction. When the buyer pays for the item, PayPal will let you know that they've received the funds and are holding them until the item is shipped and received. It's a little strange the first time you sell an item, but I sold a laptop recently and had no issue getting paid for it, just took a few days longer to officially get the payment in hand.

-B

[Egan Ford]

On 5/30/13 10:20 PM, BLuRry wrote:
> It's a little strange the first time you sell an item, but I sold a laptop recently and had no issue getting paid for it, just took a few days longer to officially get the payment in hand.

It wasn't always that way. In the past I've sold items and was able to
use Paypal funds immediately. Not anymore.

About 9 months ago there was an Apple /// that I really wanted, so I
sold off some of my vintage calculators to pay for it. I won the
auction, but could not use my Paypal balance to pay for it.

The twist in this story is that my wife was the highest bidder on all my
items--she didn't want me selling of my calculators. Even though she
marked all items as received (local pickup, and she did take them BTW (I
got them back for xmas)), I still had to wait 7 days to use the Paypal
funds.

I have a 100% rating buying and selling. Doesn't matter.

[Conrad]

I was waiting for some information because I sent an email to confirm what I read online, I wanted to make sure I understood things correctly, like I said I'm new to selling. If everyone prefers an eBay sale I have no problem going through with it that way, I just thought people would want it done quickly.

As a side question, does eBay really give any more buyer security than PayPal alone anyway? I was under the impression that if a PayPal transaction goes south you can always open a case just like with eBay, it just has to be within 45 days. I've never had to open a case before, but I thought it was just about the same.

[STYNX]

Am Freitag, 31. Mai 2013 07:55:13 UTC+2 schrieb Conrad:
> I was waiting for some information because I sent an email to confirm what I read online, I wanted to make sure I understood things correctly, like I said I'm new to selling. If everyone prefers an eBay sale I have no problem going through with it that way, I just thought people would want it done quickly.
>
>
>
> As a side question, does eBay really give any more buyer security than PayPal alone anyway? I was under the impression that if a PayPal transaction goes south you can always open a case just like with eBay, it just has to be within 45 days. I've never had to open a case before, but I thought it was just about the same.

But you should really go to a professional Photographer to get nice shots of the Falcon. You could make a Youtube-Video with the Falcon and all the Components to show them actually working. Hires Photos often make the difference on eBay. Worldwide shipping is a must as well as cheap shipping costs. It might help to get a professional eBay-Seller to do the enlisting on eBay.
As far as i could tell (ignoring the bad image quality) you have a very nice maxed out Falcon.
You could list the whole System on eBay for $2500 as "Buy Now" with the option to make an offer. You might get it sold directly. (possibly not for $2500)
If that does not work, you can still list it as an auction beginning with $1.
Tell the eBay-Buyers the reason for selling the system. Most people will be more interested if someone has to sell because of monetary problems.

-Jonas

[Olivier Zardini]

On 31 mai, 13:25, STYNX <st...@gmx.de> wrote:

> You could list the whole System on eBay for $2500 as "Buy Now" with the option to make an offer. You might get it sold directly. (possibly not for $2500)

FYI a Falcon 030 with mouse is about €300 in France nowdays. So
hoping someone will put $2500 for the stuff (even if you include
extras) is IMHO pure dream. Or the best way to NOT sell it and get
extra weeks of delay...

Olivier

http://www.gamopat-forum.com/t48224-vds-falcon-030

[STYNX]

On 5/31/2013 Olivier Zardini wrote:
> FYI a Falcon 030 with mouse is about €300 in France nowdays. So

> hoping someone will put $2500 for the stuff ... is IMHO pure dream.

Sure it is, but have you seen the outrageous prices of "buy now" auctions of retro stuff lately? Many of these allow you to give the seller an offer. I myself bought several items for less than a third of the Price the seller had as "buy now". In my opinion 900€-1200€ for this system is _very_ possible. I know that the price for a mostly dead Falcon is about 100-200€ in Germany. A RAM-upgraded working one (without Accelerator) fetches 300-500€. Conrad has to get as much out of this as possible as fast as possible. For comparison: a _unpopulated_ PuPla/2 has sold for 70€ in Germany. Since the Germans are Amiga and Atari _crazy_, there is certainly a market for this.

As i said, its important to get shipping costs as low as possible for worldwide shipping.

-Jonas

[STYNX]

On Friday, May 31, 2013 3:32:04 PM UTC+2, STYNX wrote:
...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161034265584
2 days to go and already $400 for a Falcon ... that does not work.

[Olivier Zardini]

If you wa

[Olivier Zardini]

If you want to sell quickly, the best price is the market price.

Put it at $1 with no reserve and the price will go up quickly and
raise its current market value.

If now you want to gat the best price fot something, it takes uch
more time because you have to invest in advertising (annouce your sell
in forums) and take external parameters into account (avoid hollidays,
wait for the computer to be visible on a TV show, expect the death of
the computer's creator..)

Olivier

[IUnknown]

On May 30, 10:55 pm, Conrad <conrad.ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was waiting for some information because I sent an email to confirm what I read online, I wanted to make sure I understood things correctly, like I said I'm new to selling. If everyone prefers an eBay sale I have no problem going through with it that way, I just thought people would want it done quickly.
>
> As a side question, does eBay really give any more buyer security than PayPal alone anyway? I was under the impression that if a PayPal transaction goes south you can always open a case just like with eBay, it just has to be within 45 days. I've never had to open a case before, but I thought it was just about the same.

It is somewhat amusing and cheeky that you are concerned with delays
after waiting almost 2 weeks to find a suitable item to sell......
after delaying the project for 3 months .... and taking time to
announce your attentions to sell an item on the newsgroup rather than
just doing it.

That being said, if you ebay the item (which I strongly recommend,
simply because it is the widest audience of buyers), you *DO* run the
risk of having paypal hold the funds.

There is a fairly easy way around it.... make sure to send via a well-
known shipper like fedex or UPS. Get a tracking # and pay for
insurance. Make sure to enter the tracking # in ebay when you mark the
auction as having 'shipped'.

When this is done, ebay and paypal will communicate with the shipper
to confirm delivery. After 48 hours, you can call paypal and say 'hey,
the package was delivered... it has been 48 hours... give me my
money', and they will usually release it.

It helps if your paypal account is 'verified' when you do this....
This is a very simple process, and just requires a checking account
and a couple of days. They will debit some random amount less than $1
from your account, and you just need to confirm the amount. That
proves and verifies that you are the account holder.

Ebay and Paypal can be scary, but it is the easiest way to sell things
online.

[Conrad]

@IUnknown: Thanks so much for your help and explanation of the process, what I should expect, and what I will have to do. While eBay's online documentation is pretty good, I was unsure about exactly what I was to expect because the documentation online kept saying 'this MAY happen' instead of 'this WILL happen.' This confused me because I thought 'If they will not hold my money for sure, then how do I avoid it?' Anyway, thank you for clearing it up. I will verify my account and when I ship the machine it will be with a courier (Unless you think one of the better tracked and insured services offered by CanadaPost will be sufficient?)

Thanks for your help with this everyone. I'm sure the computer will sell quickly, so refunds will start ASAP.

[IUnknown]

On Jun 3, 11:59 am, Conrad <conrad.ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> @IUnknown: Thanks so much for your help and explanation of the process, what I should expect, and what I will have to do. While eBay's online documentation is pretty good, I was unsure about exactly what I was to expect because the documentation online kept saying 'this MAY happen' instead of 'this WILL happen.' This confused me because I thought 'If they will not hold my money for sure, then how do I avoid it?' Anyway, thank you for clearing it up. I will verify my account and when I ship the machine it will be with a courier (Unless you think one of the better tracked and insured services offered by CanadaPost will be sufficient?)
>
> Thanks for your help with this everyone. I'm sure the computer will sell quickly, so refunds will start ASAP.

Ship with UPS or Fedex.

[Sean Fahey]

On Monday, June 3, 2013 2:27:05 PM UTC-5, IUnknown wrote:

> Ship with UPS or Fedex.

If he ships internationally, that would be an expense a lot of buyers wouldn't want to incur and could adversely effect the auction. It's better to ship Canadian Post, with tracking and insurance (if available). As long as any gear is packed and padded well, it should survive.

[IUnknown]

His main concern is being able to have his funds released by paypal/
ebay when the shipment is confirmed as delivered.

I *know* that UPS and Fedex communicate directly with paypal, hence my
suggestion.

[Conrad]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the info IUnknown. I will find out if CanadaPost is acceptable to eBay/PayPal for this purpose as it should make it a lot cheaper for the buyer. If not, I will have to use a courier and maybe offer a discount just to ensure it sells and everyone gets their money ASAP.

I have gone through the steps to confirm my account, hoping to see the amount on my statement in the next day or two, so the sale can begin. I have gotten access to a better camera to take much better photos for the auction, as the previous ones were from my phone. This whole mess should be over with soon.

Conrad

[D Finnigan]

What happened to your GS and Transwarps that you sent? Do you expect to get
those back?

[Conrad]

Hi Everyone,

The sales to pay for the refunds will be starting this coming Friday, with the links posted here as well as on relevant forums. Sorry for the delay on it, its beeen a bit confusing sorting it all out since I've never sold on eBay before, only bought. IUnknown's help was really useful. By the way, shipping via CanadaPost to a UPU country with tracking will qualify for early release of funds.

@D Finnigan: One of the TWGS cards I sent was destroyed in the process of cloning, since it was a destructive process. My understanding was that they desoldered all the components, photographed both sides of the card, then ran the card through a router of some sort and shaved off micrometer layers at a time until they got to a copper layer. They then photographed that layer and continued until all the layers were elucidated. The other original and the GS I sent was supposed to be returned along with the shipment of cards.

[Conrad]

[Sean Fahey]

On Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:45:54 PM UTC-5, Conrad wrote:

> The sales to pay for the refunds will be starting this coming Friday, with the links posted here as well as on relevant forums. Sorry for the delay on it,

Waiting, watching... what is your eBay ID?

[IUnknown]

LOL are you holding your breath?

It has been *weeks* since he simply 'announced' his plans to sell
stuff to pay back the $$$$ he swindled from the community.

Everything he does occurs at a snail's pace.

I am just waiting for the next series of excuses or delays. Get some
popcorn and enjoy the show.

[Michael Black]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013, IUnknown wrote:

> On Jun 17, 2:07 pm, Sean Fahey <a2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:45:54 PM UTC-5, Conrad wrote:
>>> The sales to pay for the refunds will be starting this coming Friday, with the links posted here as well as on relevant forums. Sorry for the delay on it,
>>
>> Waiting, watching... what is your eBay ID?
>
>
> LOL are you holding your breath?
>
> It has been *weeks* since he simply 'announced' his plans to sell
> stuff to pay back the $$$$ he swindled from the community.
>

I'm not involved in this, and I don't see it quite the same way, but I did
catch that this side trip has taken weeks, and the state of the original
boards has now become secondary.

Putting all the effort into selling old computers only becomes relevant
because of the delays on the boards. If the effort had been put into the
boards, where it belongs, the side issue, and selling the computers,
would not be needed.

MIchael

[IUnknown]

.... and it would be interesting for Conrad to finally 'come clean'
and be 100% transparent about EXACTLY what went wrong.

As far as I am concerned, he has absolutely no credibility until he
tells the truth, and explains to everyone the TRUE chain of events
that led to this debacle.