Hayes Compatibility
Ned Ludd
such a high demand I'm thinking of using my spare phone line to host a
dial-up BBS ;-)
Warp Six requires a Hayes compatible modem (and this is where I run in
to trouble), I've got several modems but no idea what constitutes "Hayes
compatibility". I've checked all the various modem help sites, but
haven't found anything that helps...
I suppose the easiest thing would be to buy a Hayes modem, but all I've
found around here are truckloads of USR Sportsters (which seem to be
mostly crap) and a few other oddball units.
Any help/suggestions appreciated.
Simon
PS: I know nobody likes to pay long distance and telnet would be better
blah blah blah... but it's simply not possible out here in the country.
Michael J. Mahon
>I've been tinkering with Warp Six BBS software lately, and since there's
>such a high demand I'm thinking of using my spare phone line to host a
>dial-up BBS ;-)
>
>Warp Six requires a Hayes compatible modem (and this is where I run in
>to trouble), I've got several modems but no idea what constitutes "Hayes
>compatibility". I've checked all the various modem help sites, but
>haven't found anything that helps...
>
>I suppose the easiest thing would be to buy a Hayes modem, but all I've
>found around here are truckloads of USR Sportsters (which seem to be
>mostly crap) and a few other oddball units.
The U.S. Robotics Sportster is Hayes-compatible, as are most modems
made in the last decade. Of course, they all have extensions to the
Hayes protocols, but they seldom get in the way.
BTW, USR modems are, in my experience, at least as good as Hayes
modems were--they are among the best made.
-michael
Check out amazing quality sound for 8-bit Apples on my
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
Andre Kostur
sp...@luddite.ca:
> I've been tinkering with Warp Six BBS software lately, and since there's
> such a high demand I'm thinking of using my spare phone line to host a
> dial-up BBS ;-)
>
> Warp Six requires a Hayes compatible modem (and this is where I run in
> to trouble), I've got several modems but no idea what constitutes "Hayes
> compatibility". I've checked all the various modem help sites, but
> haven't found anything that helps...
>
> I suppose the easiest thing would be to buy a Hayes modem, but all I've
> found around here are truckloads of USR Sportsters (which seem to be
> mostly crap) and a few other oddball units.
>
> Any help/suggestions appreciated.
Generally what's meant there is "Hayes AT command set compatable". In the
15+ years I've been in computing, I've never personally run across a modem
that _wasn't_ Hayes AT compatable.... I'd try just hooking up whatever
modem you've got, and try that....
Ned Ludd
only works with Hayes compatible modems and I'm wondering if anyone
knows how to ascertain compatibility (my modem knowledge is rudimentary
at best). I've got about half a dozen modems kicking about, but not one
of them is a Hayes model, nor do I recall seeing any at the thrift
stores (though there's no shortage of the USR Sportsters with the pink
label).
Any help/advice would be appreciated (just don't tell me how much better
a telnet connection would be, since it's not an option out here in the
sticks).
Simon
Bill Garber
"Ned Ludd" <sp...@luddite.ca> wrote in message
news:1g2l523.10ifzwzdwxi2oN%sp...@luddite.ca...
Go here and try these commands on your modem while connected
to a term program and if they work, then you're Hayes compatible.
> http://www.totse.com/en/technology/telecommunications/mdm_cmnd.html
Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4...@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me
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Paul Schlyter
Andre Kostur <nntp...@kostur.net> wrote:
> Generally what's meant there is "Hayes AT command set compatable".
> In the 15+ years I've been in computing, I've never personally run
> across a modem that _wasn't_ Hayes AT compatable.... I'd try just
> hooking up whatever modem you've got, and try that....
compatibility or CCIR compatibility (which used a totally different
syntax for its commands).
Some 20 years ago, non-Hayes compatible modems vere not uncommon. In
general, these modems had no command set at all. So you had to dial
the number manually on your phone, and when you heard the modem
signal from the other end, turn on your modem and hang up your phone.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/
http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/
Michael J. Schülke
>
> Generally what's meant there is "Hayes AT command set compatable". In the
> 15+ years I've been in computing, I've never personally run across a modem
> that _wasn't_ Hayes AT compatable.... I'd try just hooking up whatever
> modem you've got, and try that....
>
modems -- aren't Hayes compatible. Command interpretation is done by the
(Windows) driver, hence the name.
Regards,
Michael
Ned Ludd
> Generally what's meant there is "Hayes AT command set compatable". In the
> 15+ years I've been in computing, I've never personally run across a modem
> that _wasn't_ Hayes AT compatable.... I'd try just hooking up whatever
> modem you've got, and try that....
Okay, that should simplify matters... now on to the custom cable
hacking...
Ned Ludd
> BTW, USR modems are, in my experience, at least as good as Hayes
> modems were--they are among the best made.
Maybe it's just my luck, I've tried a few (because they look nice
sitting next to the GS) but they never seem to work for me... though I
just found a Macintosh version Sportster that I haven't tried yet, so
maybe I'll give it a go.
At the moment I'm using a monstrous GVC thing whose LEDs can be seen
from the next town ;-)
Simon
Bill Garber
> Michael J. Mahon <mjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > BTW, USR modems are, in my experience, at least as good as Hayes
> > modems were--they are among the best made.
>
> Maybe it's just my luck, I've tried a few (because they look nice
> sitting next to the GS) but they never seem to work for me... though I
> just found a Macintosh version Sportster that I haven't tried yet, so
> maybe I'll give it a go.
My Mac version Sportster works on my IIgs. It's a small wedge
shaped white plastic box with 28.8 modem/33.6 fax. All the "AT"
commands work on it.
Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4...@comXcast.net
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Andre Kostur
in news:MPG.19f0af45f...@News.individual.DE:
Um... I thought we were talking about external modems suitable for
connecting to an Apple IIGS.....
Bill Garber
"Andre Kostur" <nntp...@kostur.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94107E5DBE047...@209.53.75.21...
> =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_J=2E_Sch=FClke?= <news...@mjschuelke.de> wrote
> in news:MPG.19f0af45f...@News.individual.DE:
>
> > Andre Kostur wrote:
> >>
> >> Generally what's meant there is "Hayes AT command set compatable".
> >> In the 15+ years I've been in computing, I've never personally run
> >> across a modem that _wasn't_ Hayes AT compatable.... I'd try just
> >> hooking up whatever modem you've got, and try that....
> >>
> > IIRC, most "WinModems" -- cheap internal modems for PCs, and on-board
> > modems -- aren't Hayes compatible. Command interpretation is done by
> > the (Windows) driver, hence the name.
This is incorrect. The driver creates the bridge between the system
and the ISA/PCI slot whichever it is. Drivers also setup IRQ and DMA.
Michael J. Schülke
I don't want to be pedantic, but the statement I quoted above referred
to "15+ years [you've] been in computing" in which you "never personally
[ran] across" a non Hayes-compatible modem. It was in no way restricted
to the IIgs.
Regards,
Michael
Gavin Picknell
Quite a long time ago I used to run a Warp6 BBS (v2.5) on my Apple
IIe. I seem to remember that Warp6 required a "custom" cable when
running on a IIe, there was some doco with it that mentioned how to
wire it. I remember the symptom was that external modems would work
fine with comms programs, but not with Warp6 unless you made the mod
(which still allowed them to work fine with comms programs). I'm not
sure if this applies when using the GS serial port (are you using a
IIe or GS?). If you didnt get the cable right, you would get "modem
not responding" from Warp6. In addition, in Warp6, make sure you have
specified the correct serial port driver to use (when using external
modems, there is a Superserial Card driver, and a GS port driver - I
think the SSC card driver is the default one).
Also there is a modem init (text) file which warp6 uses to init the
modem. Have a look in the file, then use a standard apple II comms
program to issue those commands to your modem, if the modem responds
with "OK" or "0" to each command, then your modem is "command set"
compatible with Warp6.
Another thing to check is that your modem is not "hard coded" to talk
at too high a speed to the apple II - i.e. make sure it will repond to
your apple II when it tries to talk at 9600 or 19200 (I cant remember
what the limit is on a Apple II, and with Warp6).
Warp6 was cool, hope you get it going.
Good Luck!
sp...@luddite.ca (Ned Ludd) wrote in message news:<1g2kise.1y0grpe1otk6m8N%sp...@luddite.ca>...
Andre Kostur
in news:MPG.19f1366aa...@News.individual.DE:
True... if you want to be picky... that's what I said :) (And thus also
isn't strictly true since I _have_ run across winmodems.....). However,
within the context of the discussion, let's amend my statement to: I have
personally yet to run across an external modem suitable for use with an
Apple IIGS that doesn't use the Hayes AT command set.
Ned Ludd
Thanks for the advice. Fortunately Warp6 is not only easier to set up
than most of the BBS software I've looked at, but it's also very well
documented. I'm going to have a go at building the cable tonight (not my
area of expertise at all, so it should keep me aggravated for a while).
Simon
Ned Ludd
> My Mac version Sportster works on my IIgs. It's a small wedge
> shaped white plastic box with 28.8 modem/33.6 fax. All the "AT"
> commands work on it.
Bill, can you let me know the voltage and polarity of your AC adaptor,
I've always assumed that the 9-volt adaptor from my GVC should work on a
USR, but now I'm wondering if this might be my problem...
Simon
Supertimer
Try any of the Creative brand external "Modem Blaster"
serial or just about any external modem. I think the
USR external modems all support the Hayes command
set too.
Basically, any dial up modem these days will be
Hayes compatible. The command set is the standard.
"Hayes compatible" is like calling photocopies "Xerox."
Even internal Winmodems use the Hayes command
set although, of course, you can't use them on an
Apple II.
Supertimer
>Another thing to check is that your modem is not "hard coded" to talk
>at too high a speed to the apple II - i.e. make sure it will repond to
>your apple II when it tries to talk at 9600 or 19200 (I cant remember
>what the limit is on a Apple II, and with Warp6).
For the Apple IIGS, it was 57600 with hardware handshaking.
Remember, it used the same serial chip as Macs in the '80s
and early '90s. It will go higher when using AppleTalk but
for modems, it is 57600.
I had my IIGS set to 57600 when using ProTERM 3.0.
Note: Do not let the control panel max of 19200 fool you.
The IIGS port is capable of faster speeds, only software
needs to directly drive it.
Bill Garber
The info straight from the PS box is:
Input: 120v AC - 60Hz - 16W
Output: 9v AC - 1000 mA
Since the output is AC, the polarity is a mute point.
Mine actually reads 11v AC with the red in the center
and 10.9v AC with the black in the center. I think you
have found your glitch. Glad to have been of help.
Ned Ludd
> "Ned Ludd" <sp...@luddite.ca> wrote in message
> news:1g2nb25.fnk8iv1hv2ummN%sp...@luddite.ca...
> > Bill Garber <willy4...@comXcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > My Mac version Sportster works on my IIgs. It's a small wedge
> > > shaped white plastic box with 28.8 modem/33.6 fax. All the "AT"
> > > commands work on it.
> >
> > Bill, can you let me know the voltage and polarity of your AC adaptor,
> > I've always assumed that the 9-volt adaptor from my GVC should work on a
> > USR, but now I'm wondering if this might be my problem...
>
> The info straight from the PS box is:
>
> Input: 120v AC - 60Hz - 16W
> Output: 9v AC - 1000 mA
>
> Since the output is AC, the polarity is a mute point.
> Mine actually reads 11v AC with the red in the center
> and 10.9v AC with the black in the center. I think you
> have found your glitch. Glad to have been of help.
Thanks Bill... never seen an AC/AC adaptor like that. Have to see what I
can dig up at the junk shop.
Simon
Bill Garber
You are very welcome, and I agree that it is not very
common, but I have seen it a few times.
Michael J. Mahon
Almost all external modems use an AC input, since they need
both positive and negative supplies to do RS232 signals.
Ned Ludd
> Almost all external modems use an AC input, since they need
> both positive and negative supplies to do RS232 signals.
And now that I actually examine my adaptor _carefully_, I see it really
is 9V AC 1000 mA, which means I probably still have several dud modems
:(
Simon
Michael Black
When I recently got a 33.6K USR Sporster modem, it was especially cheap
because it had no power supply. I did some searches and discovered it
used the same voltage as my old 14.4K Sportster modem (which I actually
bought new 7 years ago). So I was okay right away. The voltage marking
is not visible when it's plugged in, so I can't check what it says.
I do remember, though, reading some comments in the past that USR
did not use the same voltage in the AC adaptors for some of their modems.
Michael
Scott Alfter
Hash: SHA1
In article <1g2kise.1y0grpe1otk6m8N%sp...@luddite.ca>,
Ned Ludd <sp...@luddite.ca> wrote:
>I've been tinkering with Warp Six BBS software lately, and since there's
>such a high demand I'm thinking of using my spare phone line to host a
>dial-up BBS ;-)
I ran my BBS on Warp Six for a while...that was probably 12 years ago or so.
>Warp Six requires a Hayes compatible modem (and this is where I run in
>to trouble), I've got several modems but no idea what constitutes "Hayes
>compatibility". I've checked all the various modem help sites, but
>haven't found anything that helps...
If you're looking at buying a new modem, any external modem will work.
"Hayes compatibility" only refers to the command set used to control the
modem...things like ATDTxxxxxxx to dial a number, +++ <2-second delay> ATH
to hang up, ATA to answer, etc.
It's worth mentioning that the Super Serial Card (which is most likely what
you'll use to connect the modem) tops out at 19.2 kbps. It might be
possible to mod it to support faster data rates, but I don't have any
experience with that. The built-in serial ports in a IIGS can usually go to
57.6 kbps without much trouble if the software supports it, but I don't
recall if Warp Six supports IIGS serial ports. (I ran it on a IIe with an
AE DataLink 2400 internal modem.)
_/_ Scott Alfter (address in header doesn't receive mail)
/ v \ send email to $firstname@$lastname.us
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ pkill -9 /bin/laden >What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Scott Alfter
Hash: SHA1
In article <bm5jts$20d6$1...@merope.saaf.se>,
Paul Schlyter <pau...@saaf.se> wrote:
>In article <Xns940FAE783FAFB...@209.53.75.21>,
>Andre Kostur <nntp...@kostur.net> wrote:
>
>> Generally what's meant there is "Hayes AT command set compatable".
>> In the 15+ years I've been in computing, I've never personally run
>> across a modem that _wasn't_ Hayes AT compatable.... I'd try just
>> hooking up whatever modem you've got, and try that....
>
>A modem I got 16 years ago could be configured for either Hayes
>compatibility or CCIR compatibility (which used a totally different
>syntax for its commands).
>
>Some 20 years ago, non-Hayes compatible modems vere not uncommon. In
>general, these modems had no command set at all. So you had to dial
>the number manually on your phone, and when you heard the modem
>signal from the other end, turn on your modem and hang up your phone.
The very first modem I used with my IIe was a Zoom 300-bps internal
modem...borrowed that from someone in another dorm and used it for a few
months until I got a DataLink 2400. IIRC, it wasn't Hayes-compatible and
the only software that worked with it was what came with it. It had some
other means by which it could dial numbers, though.
_/_ Scott Alfter (address in header doesn't receive mail)
/ v \ send email to $firstname@$lastname.us
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ pkill -9 /bin/laden >What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Scott Alfter
Hash: SHA1
In article <d545131a.03101...@posting.google.com>,
Gavin Picknell <gp...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>Quite a long time ago I used to run a Warp6 BBS (v2.5) on my Apple
>IIe. I seem to remember that Warp6 required a "custom" cable when
>running on a IIe, there was some doco with it that mentioned how to
>wire it. I remember the symptom was that external modems would work
>fine with comms programs, but not with Warp6 unless you made the mod
>(which still allowed them to work fine with comms programs).
The "mod" probably just involved making sure you had a cable with full
hardware handshaking. At slow data rates (2400 bps and below), you can dial
out just fine through a cable with as few as three wires: TxD, RxD, and GND.
For anything more demanding, whether it's just a faster connection or
actually answering incoming calls (for a BBS, fax software, or whatever),
you need the additional signals that might not have been connected. RTS and
CTS allow the flow of data to be started and stopped to avoid buffer
overflow, which you'd want for faster speeds. DSR, DTR, and DCD allow the
computer to tell if the modem is connected properly and if it's connected to
a remote system.
_/_ Scott Alfter (address in header doesn't receive mail)
/ v \ send email to $firstname@$lastname.us
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ pkill -9 /bin/laden >What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Michael Black
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> In article <bm5jts$20d6$1...@merope.saaf.se>,
> Paul Schlyter <pau...@saaf.se> wrote:
>>In article <Xns940FAE783FAFB...@209.53.75.21>,
>>Andre Kostur <nntp...@kostur.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Generally what's meant there is "Hayes AT command set compatable".
>>> In the 15+ years I've been in computing, I've never personally run
>>> across a modem that _wasn't_ Hayes AT compatable.... I'd try just
>>> hooking up whatever modem you've got, and try that....
>>
>>A modem I got 16 years ago could be configured for either Hayes
>>compatibility or CCIR compatibility (which used a totally different
>>syntax for its commands).
>>
>>Some 20 years ago, non-Hayes compatible modems vere not uncommon. In
>>general, these modems had no command set at all. So you had to dial
>>the number manually on your phone, and when you heard the modem
>>signal from the other end, turn on your modem and hang up your phone.
>
> The very first modem I used with my IIe was a Zoom 300-bps internal
> modem...borrowed that from someone in another dorm and used it for a few
> months until I got a DataLink 2400. IIRC, it wasn't Hayes-compatible and
> the only software that worked with it was what came with it. It had some
> other means by which it could dial numbers, though.
>
some of them were, but we didn't hear much about them. Mind you,
Hayes was there just as there was a need for consumer modems, and
the speeds were slow and most people were just becoming aware of
modems.
300baud and lower, which would have been the case back then, wasn't
much more than an oscillator that could be shifted between two
frequencies, and some sort of detector that could differentiate
between those two frequencies. It just needed to be hooked to
a serial port, and it didn't need anything beyond that. You could
dial by hand, using the existing telephone.
It was Hayes who made modems intelligent (or at the very lest
made intelligent modems common), by putting a computer in the modem
and setting out the command set. I'm not sure how important it
was in the beginning, other than to add simple dialing, but obviously
it didn't take much time before there was more you could do, and
as modems became faster, the microprocessor was doing more than
just handling the command set, since modems became more than those
simple oscillator/detectors of the lower speeds.
Michel