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Michael J. Mahon wrote: > I had my eye on it for almost a week. An interesting combo > of 9918 sprite card and AY-3-8910 sound chip.
> Also interesting that they didn't find a way to route the video > output on the PC board. ;-)
I missed the run-up to this. A friend of mine who I have not seen in years designed a board called the "Sprite-n-Stereo" card. Is that what you have? If so, quite a rarity.
>> I had my eye on it for almost a week. An interesting combo >> of 9918 sprite card and AY-3-8910 sound chip.
>> Also interesting that they didn't find a way to route the video >> output on the PC board. ;-)
>I missed the run-up to this. A friend of mine who I have not seen in >years designed a board called the "Sprite-n-Stereo" card. Is that what >you have? If so, quite a rarity.
It's pretty close! There is one AY-3-8910, so it's a "Sprite-n-Mono" card. ;-) I note from the picture, though, that there's some 2-channel funny business at the audio end, so maybe it _is_ stereo...that would mean that the video is available only at the RF modulator connector.
I've never seen this combo before, and am looking forward to seeing how the 9918A and the '8910 are interfaced, since there's nothing but "glue" logic on the card.
My newsreader does not have the first messages of this thread, so I am not sure what board you are talking about. But because the subject is "Arcade Board" and there was a board with TMS9918A and AY3-8910 on it marketed as the "Arcade Board" by Third Millennium Engineering around 1983 - 1984, I am wondering if this might be it. If so it has some programmable filters (low pass, high pass, band pass) on the PSG outputs. It only has mono outputs and the Apple interface bus timing for the AY3-8910 was a little flakey.
> >> I had my eye on it for almost a week. An interesting combo > >> of 9918 sprite card and AY-3-8910 sound chip.
> >> Also interesting that they didn't find a way to route the video > >> output on the PC board. ;-)
> >I missed the run-up to this. A friend of mine who I have not seen in > >years designed a board called the "Sprite-n-Stereo" card. Is that what > >you have? If so, quite a rarity.
> It's pretty close! There is one AY-3-8910, so it's a "Sprite-n-Mono" > card. ;-) I note from the picture, though, that there's some 2-channel > funny business at the audio end, so maybe it _is_ stereo...that would > mean that the video is available only at the RF modulator connector.
> I've never seen this combo before, and am looking forward to seeing > how the 9918A and the '8910 are interfaced, since there's nothing > but "glue" logic on the card.
"Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20040814033629.04913.00001694@mb-m05.aol.com... : Steven N. Hirsch wrote: : : >Michael J. Mahon wrote: : > : >> I had my eye on it for almost a week. An interesting combo : >> of 9918 sprite card and AY-3-8910 sound chip. : >> : >> Also interesting that they didn't find a way to route the video : >> output on the PC board. ;-) : > : >I missed the run-up to this. A friend of mine who I have not seen in : >years designed a board called the "Sprite-n-Stereo" card. Is that what : >you have? If so, quite a rarity. : : It's pretty close! There is one AY-3-8910, so it's a "Sprite-n-Mono" : card. ;-) I note from the picture, though, that there's some 2-channel : funny business at the audio end, so maybe it _is_ stereo...that would : mean that the video is available only at the RF modulator connector. : : I've never seen this combo before, and am looking forward to seeing : how the 9918A and the '8910 are interfaced, since there's nothing : but "glue" logic on the card.
This last phrase is Bogus. It's best known as GLU or General Logic Unit. The TTL chips on the card are the Logic. The CFFA has GLU in the form of a CPLD. Most earlier Apple IF cards have individual gates making up their Logic so they don't have GLU.
Thank you. We now return you to your previously scheduled topic. :o)
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Ralfe Cookson wrote: > My newsreader does not have the first messages of this thread, so I am > not sure what board you are talking about. But because the subject is > "Arcade Board" and there was a board with TMS9918A and AY3-8910 on it > marketed as the "Arcade Board" by Third Millennium Engineering
> 1983 - 1984, I am wondering if this might be it. If so it has some > programmable filters (low pass, high pass, band pass) on the PSG > outputs. It only has mono outputs and the Apple interface bus timing > for the AY3-8910 was a little flakey.
>>>>I had my eye on it for almost a week. An interesting combo >>>>of 9918 sprite card and AY-3-8910 sound chip.
>>>>Also interesting that they didn't find a way to route the video >>>>output on the PC board. ;-)
>>>I missed the run-up to this. A friend of mine who I have not seen in >>>years designed a board called the "Sprite-n-Stereo" card. Is that what >>>you have? If so, quite a rarity.
>>It's pretty close! There is one AY-3-8910, so it's a "Sprite-n-Mono" >>card. ;-) I note from the picture, though, that there's some 2-channel >>funny business at the audio end, so maybe it _is_ stereo...that would >>mean that the video is available only at the RF modulator connector.
>>I've never seen this combo before, and am looking forward to seeing >>how the 9918A and the '8910 are interfaced, since there's nothing >>but "glue" logic on the card.
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> "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20040814033629.04913.00001694@mb-m05.aol.com... > : Steven N. Hirsch wrote: > : > : >Michael J. Mahon wrote: > : > > : >> I had my eye on it for almost a week. An interesting combo > : >> of 9918 sprite card and AY-3-8910 sound chip. > : >> > : >> Also interesting that they didn't find a way to route the > video > : >> output on the PC board. ;-) > : > > : >I missed the run-up to this. A friend of mine who I have not > seen in > : >years designed a board called the "Sprite-n-Stereo" card. Is > that what > : >you have? If so, quite a rarity. > : > : It's pretty close! There is one AY-3-8910, so it's a > "Sprite-n-Mono" > : card. ;-) I note from the picture, though, that there's some > 2-channel > : funny business at the audio end, so maybe it _is_ stereo...that > would > : mean that the video is available only at the RF modulator > connector. > : > : I've never seen this combo before, and am looking forward to > seeing > : how the 9918A and the '8910 are interfaced, since there's > nothing > : but "glue" logic on the card.
> This last phrase is Bogus. It's best known as GLU or General > Logic Unit. > The TTL chips on the card are the Logic. The CFFA has GLU in the > form of > a CPLD. Most earlier Apple IF cards have individual gates making > up their > Logic so they don't have GLU.
> Thank you. We now return you to your previously scheduled topic. > :o)
Huh? "Glue" has been a common term, for a long time, for the bits of logic needed to fit things together. You can have a real fancy IC, but be unable to connect it to a CPU bus because it needs some other things, and that's the glue. Anything more integrated derives from this common terminology.
>> >> I had my eye on it for almost a week. An interesting combo >> >> of 9918 sprite card and AY-3-8910 sound chip.
>> >> Also interesting that they didn't find a way to route the video >> >> output on the PC board. ;-)
>> >I missed the run-up to this. A friend of mine who I have not seen in >> >years designed a board called the "Sprite-n-Stereo" card. Is that what >> >you have? If so, quite a rarity.
>> It's pretty close! There is one AY-3-8910, so it's a "Sprite-n-Mono" >> card. ;-) I note from the picture, though, that there's some 2-channel >> funny business at the audio end, so maybe it _is_ stereo...that would >> mean that the video is available only at the RF modulator connector.
>> I've never seen this combo before, and am looking forward to seeing >> how the 9918A and the '8910 are interfaced, since there's nothing >> but "glue" logic on the card.
>My newsreader does not have the first messages of this thread, so I am >not sure what board you are talking about. But because the subject is >"Arcade Board" and there was a board with TMS9918A and AY3-8910 on it >marketed as the "Arcade Board" by Third Millennium Engineering around >1983 - 1984, I am wondering if this might be it. If so it has some >programmable filters (low pass, high pass, band pass) on the PSG >outputs. It only has mono outputs and the Apple interface bus timing >for the AY3-8910 was a little flakey.
Yes, this is the Third Millenium Engineering Arcade Card.
If you have more info about the card, or its software, I would be very interested. It has two RCA connectors. I assumed one was audio and one was video, but that appears to be incorrect.
It also has a "flying lead" with a single-pin connector on the end, which I took to be a video coax, but it isn't. What is this and what does it connect to?
There is also a 4-pin Molex connector like the Apple II modulator connector. Is this the only video output? Are the two RCA's audio outputs? ???
I haven't started to dig into it yet, so if anyone has any information on this card, I would be delighted to hear more. ;-)
I was surprised that the '8910 was interfaced without benefit of latches, so your remark about marginal interface to the Apple bus sounds right. Did it work OK, or were there intermittent glitches?
> This last phrase is Bogus. It's best known as GLU or General > Logic Unit.
Aren't you a bit confused with the 'GLU' chip in the Atari ST's? It was short for Generalized Logic Unit. It acted as the glue that connected all the components :).
'Glue logic' has imo allways been the term for all the extraneous logic needed to connect the more integrated stuff to each other. Buffers and latches are generally not seen as glue logic, although they are also needed to help stuff work with each other.
"Peter de Vroomen" <peterv[at][spamblock]jaytown[dot]com> wrote in message news:4120bd41$0$65124$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... : : > This last phrase is Bogus. It's best known as GLU or General : > Logic Unit. : : Aren't you a bit confused with the 'GLU' chip in the Atari ST's? It was : short for Generalized Logic Unit. It acted as the glue that connected all : the components :).
Nope, not confused at all, in fact, that is exactly what I said. a "GLU" is a single chip that performs the function of sometimes an entire card full of logic gates. For example, the CPLD on the CFFA could be called a "GLU".
: 'Glue logic' has imo allways been the term for all the extraneous logic : needed to connect the more integrated stuff to each other. Buffers and : latches are generally not seen as glue logic, although they are also needed : to help stuff work with each other.
Although in the A2 and some of the Commodore worlds that term is wide-spread, I had never heard it used to describe "Logic" in the sense of many chips. We always just called it "Logic".
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mjma...@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) wrote in message
> Yes, this is the Third Millenium Engineering Arcade Card.
> If you have more info about the card, or its software, I would be very > interested. It has two RCA connectors. I assumed one was audio > and one was video, but that appears to be incorrect.
I can dig up some more info, but it may be a few days. But the two RCA connectors were composite video and mono audio. They should work when plugged into a TV with RCA video and sound inputs. Which connector is which I do not remember, but you can probably trace the one connected to the video output transistor (2N3904) from the VDP chip. The PSG I believe used 741 op amps for audio.
There was software that came with the card as well as a manual of sorts. There was also an extension to Applesoft BASIC, using &, that allowed to program the main features of the VDP and PSG in BASIC.
> It also has a "flying lead" with a single-pin connector on the end, which > I took to be a video coax, but it isn't. What is this and what does it > connect to?
The single wire plugged into the Apple's RCA video connector so that the video from the card could be Apple video in pass-thru mode, or the VDP video, if it was enabled.
> There is also a 4-pin Molex connector like the Apple II modulator > connector. Is this the only video output? Are the two RCA's audio > outputs? ???
> I haven't started to dig into it yet, so if anyone has any information > on this card, I would be delighted to hear more. ;-)
> I was surprised that the '8910 was interfaced without benefit of latches, > so your remark about marginal interface to the Apple bus sounds > right. Did it work OK, or were there intermittent glitches? > -michael
Bill Garber wrote: >Nope, not confused at all, in fact, that is exactly what I said. >a "GLU" is a single chip that performs the function of sometimes >an entire card full of logic gates. For example, the CPLD on the >CFFA could be called a "GLU".
>: 'Glue logic' has imo allways been the term for all the >extraneous logic >: needed to connect the more integrated stuff to each other. >Buffers and >: latches are generally not seen as glue logic, although they are >also needed >: to help stuff work with each other.
>Although in the A2 and some of the Commodore worlds that term >is wide-spread, I had never heard it used to describe "Logic" >in the sense of many chips. We always just called it "Logic".
I didn't say GLU, I said "glue".
"Glue" chips or "glue" logic is the generic term used for decades by logic designers to describe the SSI chips (gates, inverters, and such) needed to connect more highly integrated chips together.
Ralfe Cookson wrote: >mjma...@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) wrote in message
>> Yes, this is the Third Millenium Engineering Arcade Card.
>> If you have more info about the card, or its software, I would be very >> interested. It has two RCA connectors. I assumed one was audio >> and one was video, but that appears to be incorrect.
>I can dig up some more info, but it may be a few days. But the two RCA >connectors were composite video and mono audio. They should work when >plugged into a TV with RCA video and sound inputs. Which connector is >which I do not remember, but you can probably trace the one connected >to the video output transistor (2N3904) from the VDP chip. The PSG I >believe used 741 op amps for audio.
There are two LM747's and two 4052's.
And you are right, the upper RCA connector is video, and the lower is audio--no stereo here.
>There was software that came with the card as well as a manual of >sorts. There was also an extension to Applesoft BASIC, using &, that >allowed to program the main features of the VDP and PSG in BASIC.
Both of those items would be of _great_ interest!
>> It also has a "flying lead" with a single-pin connector on the end, which >> I took to be a video coax, but it isn't. What is this and what does it >> connect to?
>The single wire plugged into the Apple's RCA video connector so that >the video from the card could be Apple video in pass-thru mode, or the >VDP video, if it was enabled.
I wondered if it was intended to go into the Apple video connector. It's only about 7" long, so this card would have to go in an "upper" slot.
>> There is also a 4-pin Molex connector like the Apple II modulator >> connector. Is this the only video output? Are the two RCA's audio >> outputs? ???
>The 4 pin connector was for RF modulator.
That's what I expected...
>> I haven't started to dig into it yet, so if anyone has any information >> on this card, I would be delighted to hear more. ;-)
>> I was surprised that the '8910 was interfaced without benefit of latches, >> so your remark about marginal interface to the Apple bus sounds >> right. Did it work OK, or were there intermittent glitches?
