Looking for (internal) Keyboard cable for the US //e
myoldmac.net
I have an Apple //e with a defect Motherboard and bought an US Apple //
e Motherborad to replace it. Sadly the keyboard cable port is on a
different location on the board and my internal keyboard cable is to
short. Does anyone in the US have an internal k.cable for me to repair
my old Apple?
It is a Retrochallenge.net Project, I hope to get it running again in
this Month.
Greetings from Berlin
Oliver
Ferdinan Meyer-hermann
Re: Looking for (internal) Keyboard cable for the US //e
By: myoldmac.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Wed Jul 02 2008 03:12 am
> I have an Apple //e with a defect Motherboard and bought an US Apple //
> e Motherborad to replace it. Sadly the keyboard cable port is on a
> different location on the board and my internal keyboard cable is to
> short. Does anyone in the US have an internal k.cable for me to repair
> my old Apple?
I had a similar problem (actually my cable was broken) and solved it with a
standard 34-pin floppy cable. You need to do some cutting on either the
connectors on the cable or the motherboard and keyboard to make them fit. Make
sure you use the non-twisted part of the cable or your keyboard will behave
"strangely". You can cut off the twisted remainder.
Ferdinand Meyer-Hermann
Linards Ticmanis
> Hi,
>
> I have an Apple //e with a defect Motherboard and bought an US Apple //
> e Motherborad to replace it. Sadly the keyboard cable port is on a
> different location on the board and my internal keyboard cable is to
> short. Does anyone in the US have an internal k.cable for me to repair
> my old Apple?
A decent Conrad or similar electronics store should have the needed
connectors and the flat cable. You'll just have to get it together. A
bench vise (Schraubstock in German) is good for getting the connectors
on the cable, just make sure you cut the cable absolutely straight
across, put in some small wooden boards to avoid damaging the plastic of
the connectors with the vise's metal, make sure everything is nice and
straight, and turn really slowly. Don't try to disassemble the
connectors, it's really hard to do without breaking something.
--
Linards Ticmanis
heuser...@freenet.de
>
> I have an Apple //e with a defect Motherboard and bought an US Apple //
> e Motherborad to replace it. Sadly the keyboard cable port is on a
> different location on the board and my internal keyboard cable is to
> short. Does anyone in the US have an internal k.cable for me to repair
> my old Apple?
>
I used the "PC floppy cable variant" and it works well, but I also
had to use a longer speaker cable.
BTW, does it have a US keyboard or a German one with
umlauts?
If it's US it should work nicely with your US mainboard.
If it's German you have to do more than just getting an longer
keyboard cable.
bye
Marcus
myoldmac.net
Hi, thank you all for your informations!
I try to find such a PC Floppy cable, but Marcus - I have a german ÜÄÖ
Umlaute keyboard.
Do I need to change the Keyboard ROM ? I have a German ROM on in the
old (defect) board.
heuser...@freenet.de
>
> I try to find such a PC Floppy cable, but Marcus - I have a german ÜÄÖ
> Umlaute keyboard.
> Do I need to change the Keyboard ROM ? I have a German ROM on in the
> old (defect) board.
You need to use a German keyboard ROM with your German
keyboard to get the correct "translation" of keys into key codes.
Thankfully you can just replace the US chip with the German
chip as both have 24 pins.
But now the fun really starts as the US mainboard doesn't
support the little switch that is underneath your keyboard!
This switch selects the font in any text mode on screen
from German (with umlauts) to the US font. You can use
this switch whenever you like - the video hardware reacts
immediately.
This switch connects electrically to the so called "VIDEO
ROM" and selects one of two memory areas (two fonts) in
a non-US mainboard.
On a US mainboard this chip only has one area (one font)
and is smaller than a German (or other non-US country) chip
in capacity and size: It also has 24 pins instead of 28.
This means that you can't simply transfer the chip like the
keyboard ROM!
One solution would be to live with the US video ROM - and
forget the umlauts completely. The text mode should (I'm
not 100% sure) be identical to a German video ROM switched
to the US font.
Another, better solution (especially if you tinker with the
Apple a lot or want to sell it as a unique item in Germany)
would be to get a "video ROM adapter" and plug the German
video ROM into it and the whole thingy into the ROM socket.
Then you connect the switch to the adapter everything should
work like with a German mainboard.
Maybe you can get an inexpensive adapter from Garberstreet
Electronics - ask Bill Garber (you'll find postings of him here)
- which I can assure you do work flawlessly (as long as your
German video ROM is in working condition).
My Apple IIe is built exactly like this (German case, keyboard,
keyboard ROM and video ROM, US mainboard and a video
ROM adapter).
Of course you'll get NTSC video output with 60 Hz but most
modern TV sets in Germany should be able to work with that.
You also get the US picture aspect-ratio which fills the screen
better and displays US software more accurately than the
squashed 50 Hz video of PAL Apples.
The colors usually are way better with the NTSC (because
they are more "authentic") so a US board is worth the trouble,
IMHO.
Be aware that some expansion cards won't work with the
US mainboard (especially European video cards) as the AUX
connector slot is not in line with slot 3 anymore.
The French Le Chat Mauve RGB cards are one example
because they combine 64K RAM with RGB video output.
On the other hand slot 3 becomes a (universal?) slot and
you can use far better cards which were designed for the
US mainboards.
HTH,
Marcus
Linards Ticmanis
> Another, better solution (especially if you tinker with the
> Apple a lot or want to sell it as a unique item in Germany)
> would be to get a "video ROM adapter" and plug the German
> video ROM into it and the whole thingy into the ROM socket.
> Then you connect the switch to the adapter everything should
> work like with a German mainboard.
I would second that. It works very well. I can't comment on the Bill
Garber adapter as I built my own (for an EPROM, not for a Apple ROM).
The font for the "US half" of the German video ROM is indeed identical
to the original US Apple font by the way. Since I found the original
Apple Umlauts ugly and badly designed I decided to use an EPROM with my
own Umlauts in it.
Not only are the colors and aspect ratio improved, also the beat
(=Schwebung) from the interference of the two quartzes is gone, since
there is only one quartz on the US mainboard.
--
Linards Ticmanis
heuser...@freenet.de
>
> I would second that. It works very well. I can't comment on the Bill
> Garber adapter as I built my own (for an EPROM, not for a Apple ROM).
I helped Bill with the schematics a little bit so in a way I'm
using my own adapter, too ;-)
> The font for the "US half" of the German video ROM is indeed identical
> to the original US Apple font by the way. Since I found the original
> Apple Umlauts ugly and badly designed I decided to use an EPROM with my
> own Umlauts in it.
Bill's adapter also works with EPROMs as a IIe mainboard works
with them (AFAIK the II and II+ mainboards can't use EPROMs
that easily or need special ones - I'm not sure).
> Not only are the colors and aspect ratio improved, also the beat
> (=Schwebung) from the interference of the two quartzes is gone, since
> there is only one quartz on the US mainboard.
Is this the phenomenon where faint diagonal lines/waves wander
back and forth across the screen?
In fact I only know of two advantages of a PAL mainboard
besides the ability to generate colors on a non-NTSC-capable
monitor/TV-set:
a) Some programs which were designed with it in mind do
draw perfectly round circles with it - while with a NTSC
mainboard the circles get stretched to ovals.
Of course this works the other way round, too, and if the
source code is available it can be adapted.
b) In mixed graphics modes the text in the four line text window
at the bottom of the screen doesn't appear tinted green and
magenta like with US mainboards. This is really an improvement
as the text looks much clearer.
bye
Marcus
Linards Ticmanis
>> Not only are the colors and aspect ratio improved, also the beat
>> (=Schwebung) from the interference of the two quartzes is gone, since
>> there is only one quartz on the US mainboard.
>
> Is this the phenomenon where faint diagonal lines/waves wander
> back and forth across the screen?
Yes, that's what I mean. It's most visible at vertical edges. Different
people seem to notice these lines to a different degree, personally I
find this extremely annoying, especially when I'm moving my eyes (it's
less noticable with a "fixed stare"). Carefully fine-tuning the PAL
frequency with the adjustable capacitor helps, though.
> b) In mixed graphics modes the text in the four line text window
> at the bottom of the screen doesn't appear tinted green and
> magenta like with US mainboards. This is really an improvement
> as the text looks much clearer.
True enough. I can live with that bit of nostalgia, though.
--
Linards Ticmanis
myoldmac.net
> and is smaller than a German (or other non-US country) chip
> in capacity and size: It also has 24 pins instead of 28.
> This means that you can't simply transfer the chip like the
> keyboard ROM!
>
> One solution would be to live with the US video ROM - and
> forget the umlauts completely. The text mode should (I'm
> not 100% sure) be identical to a German video ROM switched
> to the US font.
Thank you for the detailed info!
> Another, better solution (especially if you tinker with the
> Apple a lot or want to sell it as a unique item in Germany)
> would be to get a "video ROM adapter" and plug the German
> video ROM into it and the whole thingy into the ROM socket.
> Then you connect the switch to the adapter everything should
> work like with a German mainboard.
>
> Maybe you can get an inexpensive adapter from Garberstreet
> Electronics - ask Bill Garber (you'll find postings of him here)
> - which I can assure you do work flawlessly (as long as your
> German video ROM is in working condition).
>
> My Apple IIe is built exactly like this (German case, keyboard,
> keyboard ROM and video ROM, US mainboard and a video
> ROM adapter).
I check it out - thank you all for the help!
myoldmac.net
> Maybe you can get an inexpensive adapter from Garberstreet
> Electronics - ask Bill Garber (you'll find postings of him here)
> - which I can assure you do work flawlessly (as long as your
> German video ROM is in working condition).
>
> My Apple IIe is built exactly like this (German case, keyboard,
> keyboard ROM and video ROM, US mainboard and a video
> ROM adapter).
>
Can you tell me the URL ? I cant find the adapter at http://www.garberstreet.com/
heuser...@freenet.de
> > Maybe you can get an inexpensive adapter from Garberstreet
> > Electronics - ask Bill Garber (you'll find postings of him here)
> > - which I can assure you do work flawlessly (as long as your
> > German video ROM is in working condition).
>
Just checked and didn't find it there, either.
Now you could either ask Bill if he still sells them directly
or look for example here:
http://www.reactivemicro.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_29&products_id=111
This shop is also highly recommended.
bye
Marcus
myoldmac.net
only have a "unenhanced" german keyboard ROM?
Are all needed characters in this ROM or do I need to use also an
enhanced german keyboard ROM?
heuser...@freenet.de
AFAIK an enhanced (German) keyboard ROM doesn't exist.
bye
Marcus
Patrick Schaefer
>> Are all needed characters in this ROM or do I need to use
>> also an enhanced german keyboard ROM?
>
> AFAIK an enhanced (German) keyboard ROM doesn't exist.
I have one in my collection:
342-0372-A //e (enhanced) Keyboard ROM deutsch/usa 1985 2k
The regular one is:
341-0151-A IIe Keyboard ROM deutsch/usa 1982 2k
Patrick
heuser...@freenet.de
>
> I have one in my collection:
>
> 342-0372-A //e (enhanced) Keyboard ROM deutsch/usa 1985 2k
>
> The regular one is:
>
> 341-0151-A IIe Keyboard ROM deutsch/usa 1982 2k
Thanks for the information!
Can you post the differences (hex dumps or something
like that)?
bye
Marcus
Patrick Schaefer
> Can you post the differences (hex dumps or something
> like that)?
Here you are:
D:\Apple II - Sammlung\Apple-Archiv\ROM Images\Apple>fc 3420372a.bin
3410151a.bin /b
Vergleichen der Dateien 3420372A.BIN und 3410151A.BIN
000003C8: 43 A0
000003CC: 59 A0
000003D1: 49 A0
000003D3: 44 A0
000003D5: 52 A0
000003D7: 42 A0
000003DA: 4E A0
000003DE: 4F A0
000003FF: 35 32
00000408: 22 00
00000409: 32 00
0000040A: 22 40
0000040C: 00 23
0000040D: 00 33
0000040E: 40 23
00000414: 26 1E
00000415: 36 1E
00000416: 26 5E
0000041C: 2F 26
0000041E: 2F 26
00000420: 28 2A
00000422: 28 2A
00000424: 29 28
00000426: 29 28
0000043C: 1A 19
0000043D: 1A 19
0000043E: 5A 59
0000043F: 5A 59
00000470: 1C 3A
00000471: 1C 3B
00000472: 5C 3A
00000473: 7C 3B
00000478: 19 1A
00000479: 19 1A
0000047A: 59 5A
0000047B: 59 5A
00000494: 3B 3C
00000496: 3B 3C
00000498: 3A 3E
0000049A: 3A 3E
0000049C: 1F 3F
0000049D: 1F 2F
0000049E: 5F 3F
0000049F: 2D 2F
000004B8: 1E 7E
000004B9: 1E 60
000004BA: 5E 7E
000004BB: 23 60
000004BC: 60 2B
000004BD: 27 3D
000004BE: 60 2B
000004BF: 27 3D
000004C0: 3D 29
000004C2: 3D 29
000004C4: 3F 1F
000004C5: 7E 1F
000004C6: 3F 5F
000004C7: 7E 2D
000004E0: 3E 1C
000004E1: 3C 1C
000004E2: 3E 7C
000004E3: 3C 5C
000004E8: 1D 1B
000004E9: 1D 1B
000004EA: 5D 7B
000004EB: 7D 5B
000004EC: 2A 1D
000004ED: 2B 1D
000004EE: 2A 7D
000004EF: 2B 5D
00000514: 1B 22
00000515: 1B 27
00000516: 5B 22
00000517: 7B 27
00000608: 22 00
00000609: 32 00
0000060A: 22 40
0000060C: 00 23
0000060D: 00 33
0000060E: 40 23
00000614: 26 1E
00000615: 36 1E
00000616: 26 5E
0000061C: 2F 26
0000061E: 2F 26
00000620: 28 2A
00000622: 28 2A
00000624: 29 28
00000626: 29 28
0000063C: 1A 19
0000063D: 1A 19
0000063E: 5A 59
0000063F: 7A 79
00000670: 1C 3A
00000671: 1C 3B
00000672: 5C 3A
00000673: 7C 3B
00000678: 19 1A
00000679: 19 1A
0000067A: 59 5A
0000067B: 79 7A
00000694: 3B 3C
00000696: 3B 3C
00000698: 3A 3E
0000069A: 3A 3E
0000069C: 1F 3F
0000069D: 1F 2F
0000069E: 5F 3F
0000069F: 2D 2F
000006B8: 1E 7E
000006B9: 1E 60
000006BA: 5E 7E
000006BB: 23 60
000006BC: 60 2B
000006BD: 27 3D
000006BE: 60 2B
000006BF: 27 3D
000006C0: 3D 29
000006C2: 3D 29
000006C4: 3F 1F
000006C5: 7E 1F
000006C6: 3F 5F
000006C7: 7E 2D
000006E0: 3E 1C
000006E1: 3C 1C
000006E2: 3E 7C
000006E3: 3C 5C
000006E8: 1D 1B
000006E9: 1D 1B
000006EA: 5D 7B
000006EB: 7D 5B
000006EC: 2A 1D
000006ED: 2B 1D
000006EE: 2A 7D
000006EF: 2B 5D
00000714: 1B 22
00000715: 1B 27
00000716: 5B 22
00000717: 7B 27
000007C8: 43 A0
000007CC: 59 A0
000007D1: 49 A0
000007D3: 44 A0
000007D5: 52 A0
000007D7: 42 A0
000007D8: A0 33
000007D9: A0 34
000007DA: 4E 31
000007DB: A0 2D
000007DC: A0 30
000007DD: A0 31
000007DE: 4F 35
000007DF: A0 31
000007E0: A0 41
000007FF: 35 32
Let me know if you need a copy of these files.
Best regards
Patrick
Bill Garber
"Patrick Schaefer" <pa.sc...@web.de> wrote in message news:6dnbqeF...@mid.individual.net...
> heuser...@freenet.de schrieb:
>
> > Can you post the differences (hex dumps or something
> > like that)?
>
> Here you are:
>
> D:\Apple II - Sammlung\Apple-Archiv\ROM Images\Apple>fc 3420372a.bin
> 3410151a.bin /b
>
> Vergleichen der Dateien 3420372A.BIN und 3410151A.BIN
> 000003C8: 43 A0
[ snip lengthy listing ]
> 000007FF: 35 32
>
> Let me know if you need a copy of these files.
I'd like them. You can email them or upload to the web site.
Thanks,
Bill Garber from GS-Electronics
http://www.garberstreet.com
heuser...@freenet.de
>
> Here you are:
>
> D:\Apple II - Sammlung\Apple-Archiv\ROM Images\Apple>fc 3420372a.bin
> 3410151a.bin /b
Thanks!
> Let me know if you need a copy of these files.
Actually, no ;-)
You see, I was under the impression that the 151A-ROM is
the German keyboard ROM and the 342-0132-D is the one
for the US keyboard (which I had found on my enhanced US
mainboards).
As it turns out your 3420372A.BIN file has the same contents
as the file of the ROM 342-0327-A - which is the number of
the actual ROM chip I had in my original German IIe with an
"International NTSC" mainboard.
This board sucks as it can't display color in ANY color system
but this is another story.
By the way, 342-0326-A is the number of a French keyboard
ROM so I guess 0327 is the right number for a German one.
bye
Marcus
Patrick Schaefer
> By the way, 342-0326-A is the number of a French keyboard
> ROM so I guess 0327 is the right number for a German one.
You're right. Thank you, I've corrected the number.
Regards
Patrick
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