"New" Apple lle
Bettablue
sound too much like a complete pinhead.
I just became the new owner of an almost perfect condition Apple lle a
friend of mine was able to purchase through a school district web site
auction for me. We got it for the grand total of $12.50. It came with a
working monochrome display, dual floppy bays, and all of the cables. The
computer still works! I have done a bit of reading over the last few days,
so I know a little bit about the Apple 2 series. I had access to one of
these a long time ago and have some limited experience with it from that
perspective too, but very limited. I don't even remember what revision I
was using back then, but it did have a gray scale monochrome display and a
DOS like feel. I even wrote some small programs on it for display purposes
using BASIC code.
My friend still has the computer in his possession in Utah and will be
bringing it to Vegas for delivery to me in a couple of weeks. During that
time, I really hope he doesn't get too attached to it, because I really want
this.
I also have some preconceptions I hope to get cleared up as well. Most of
the information revolves with what I can do with this computer. Sorry for
the number of questions. Like I said, I am a complete newbie.
BTW, I am also in the market for another vintage computer too. I am looking
for an IBM dual floppy model that came with dual floppy drives and either
the model F keyboard, a PS/2 or finally an IBM 286 computer that used the
famous model M keyboard. If you know of a working example, compete with
display, let me know.
Now, onto my questions about the Apple lle:
1. I know it doesn't have a GUI as far as operating systems go right now,
but since it seems to have 640K of memory, I doubt it will support a newer
OS, Am I wrong here? Can I upgrade the memory and install a newer operating
system with graphical user interface?
2. I have also seen some of these using a mouse, so I am guessing that I
can get an expansion card for a serial mouse.
3. The system comes with a monochrome display, but I have seen some Apple 2
computers with a color monitor. Is there an upgrade for that too? Can I
swap the video card to get a higher resolution? Can I get a period specific
color display?
4. I read a little about ADTpro. Can I use the audio jacks on my PC to
connect to the tape jack on the Apple lle for file transfer and storage? In
other words, when I download disk images, can I use ADTpro to both load
programs onto the Apple and then save any work or documents and such back
onto the PC? Can I use the standard line in and line out jacks on my sound
board? Of course I'm also concerned that my sound board will feedback on
itself if I have to use a splitter to use both input and output through to
the Apple's tape jack.
5. Where can I find what hardware upgrades are available for the Apple lle
and what will they do for me?
6. Can I install a network card and have access to my PC running Windows 7
for storage of programs and such?
7. Where can I purchase 5 1/4" floppy diskettes for it. From what I know,
this computer will only read and write from a single side of the diskette,
although I know it can be modified slightly to allow flipping the diskette
to use the other side.
8. Is there anything else I should know about about getting it set up and
running along side My PC???
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope to have the computer in my
possession in the next week or so, so hopefully I'll have the answers I need
to make this a happy union.
Thanks much.
rich12345
search this group for comp.sys.apple2 FAQ
>
> 1. I know it doesn't have a GUI as far as operating systems go right now,
> but since it seems to have 640K of memory, I doubt it will support a newer
> OS, Am I wrong here? Can I upgrade the memory and install a newer operating
> system with graphical user interface?
64k. Prodos 8 2.0.1. You can upgrade to 1megabye with RamWorks III
card,
GEOS is GUI.
> 2. I have also seen some of these using a mouse, so I am guessing that I
> can get an expansion card for a serial mouse.
serial mouse: bitmouse interface card, kinda rare. AppleMouse cards
are
fairly easy to find.
>
> 3. The system comes with a monochrome display, but I have seen some Apple 2
> computers with a color monitor. Is there an upgrade for that too? Can I
> swap the video card to get a higher resolution? Can I get a period specific
> color display?
Apple Color Monitor. Higher resolution: 80 column card gives you
double
hires
>
> 4. I read a little about ADTpro. Can I use the audio jacks on my PC to
> connect to the tape jack on the Apple lle for file transfer and storage? In
> other words, when I download disk images, can I use ADTpro to both load
> programs onto the Apple and then save any work or documents and such back
> onto the PC? Can I use the standard line in and line out jacks on my sound
> board? Of course I'm also concerned that my sound board will feedback on
> itself if I have to use a splitter to use both input and output through to
> the Apple's tape jack.
read adt documentation.
>
> 5. Where can I find what hardware upgrades are available for the Apple lle
> and what will they do for me?
check out a2central.com... they link to all hardware vendors.
>
> 6. Can I install a network card and have access to my PC running Windows 7
> for storage of programs and such?
Uthernet could do this if software was written. a2retrosystems.com
>
> 7. Where can I purchase 5 1/4" floppy diskettes for it. From what I know,
> this computer will only read and write from a single side of the diskette,
> although I know it can be modified slightly to allow flipping the diskette
> to use the other side.
cut a hole in the side of the disk and flip it in the drive. check
a2central.com
links to vendors to find floppies. also try
comp.sys.apple2.marketplace newsgroup
>
> 8. Is there anything else I should know about about getting it set up and
> running along side My PC???
they're tons of fun.
Stavros Karatsoridis
Stavros
On Mar 14, 11:25 am, "Bettablue" <bettab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now, onto my questions about the Apple lle:
>
> 1. I know it doesn't have a GUI as far as operating systems go right now,
> but since it seems to have 640K of memory, I doubt it will support a newer
> OS, Am I wrong here? Can I upgrade the memory and install a newer operating
> system with graphical user interface?
Stock Apple IIes came with 64K of memory, not 640K. Newer (platinum
version) IIes came
with 64K on the motherboard and the Extended 80 column card which
added an additional 64K
to the computer for a total of 128K. Expansion cards did exist that
allowed one to expand
memory up to about 3 MB (I think)? Due to the limitations of the 6502
and 65C02 chip
that memory has to be accessed in 64K banks. There are a few graphical
programs
available, but the only GUI-based operating system was GEOS, as far as
I know. Far more
programs will run under Apple DOS 3.3 (not MS-DOS), Apple Pascal, and
Apple ProDOS.
DOS 3.3 and ProDOS are CLI-based.
> 2. I have also seen some of these using a mouse, so I am guessing that I
> can get an expansion card for a serial mouse.
Yes, there is an expansion card for a mouse.
> 3. The system comes with a monochrome display, but I have seen some Apple 2
> computers with a color monitor. Is there an upgrade for that too? Can I
> swap the video card to get a higher resolution? Can I get a period specific
> color display?
There is no video card. The Apple IIe has composite out, which outputs
a color signal.
If you have a composite color monitor or can connect the computer to
an RF modulator
to connect it to a TV screen, you'll get a color display.
> 4. I read a little about ADTpro. Can I use the audio jacks on my PC to
> connect to the tape jack on the Apple lle for file transfer and storage? In
> other words, when I download disk images, can I use ADTpro to both load
> programs onto the Apple and then save any work or documents and such back
> onto the PC? Can I use the standard line in and line out jacks on my sound
> board? Of course I'm also concerned that my sound board will feedback on
> itself if I have to use a splitter to use both input and output through to
> the Apple's tape jack.
I believe so, yes. Check out the ADTPro web page. They have a decent
forum where
you might be able to get answers to your questions. The fastest method
of transfer
is to use a serial cable connection.
> 5. Where can I find what hardware upgrades are available for the Apple lle
> and what will they do for me?
I believe the FAQs for the csa2 newsgroup would be a good place to
start.
> 6. Can I install a network card and have access to my PC running Windows 7
> for storage of programs and such?
Not that I am aware of. Others may be able to point you in the right
direction.
> 7. Where can I purchase 5 1/4" floppy diskettes for it. From what I know,
> this computer will only read and write from a single side of the diskette,
> although I know it can be modified slightly to allow flipping the diskette
> to use the other side.
You'll need to use double density 5.25" floppies. The HD (1.2 MB)
floppies will not work.
Try eBay or http://floppydisk.com for disks.
Linards Ticmanis
> 1. I know it doesn't have a GUI as far as operating systems go right now,
> but since it seems to have 640K of memory, I doubt it will support a newer
> OS, Am I wrong here? Can I upgrade the memory and install a newer operating
> system with graphical user interface?
640K is pretty unlikely. The CPU's address space is just 64K in this
8-bit computer. The IIe has 64K on board and most have a second 64K on
the so called extended 80-column card, which is really just a RAM
expansion. So you'd have 128K (accessed by bank switching, look that up
in Wikipedia if it's new to you). Anything beyond that would be on a
special card and would only be usable as a RAM disk for most purposes.
As for GUIs there is GEOS but GEOS was never widespread on the Apples.
Also it needs a mouse which was not that commonly used with the IIe, so
it will probably come without one.
You don't install an OS on the Apple unless it has a hard disk (again,
most do not). You just boot it from a floppy, and if you want another,
you boot it from another floppy. The main ones were DOS 3.3 (which is
actually several versions, but they're all called DOS 3.3, and they all
had nothing to do with MS-DOS 3.3), and ProDOS, which has about a dozen
versions from 1.0 to 2.0.3.
Check what your IIe says at startup. If it says "Apple //e" it's an
enhanced IIe, which is good; if it says "APPLE ][" it's an unenhanced
one, which won't run ProDOS versions later than 1.9, has more bugs, and
will have problems with some newer software. On the other hand it can
run certain badly programmed, very old games that don't work right on
the enhanced model, but those are few and far between.
> 2. I have also seen some of these using a mouse, so I am guessing that I
> can get an expansion card for a serial mouse.
An expansion card for an Apple / very early Mac mouse. It won't work
with any PC serial mouse. You must have one that is compatible with the
Mac Plus or earlier, i.e. a pre-ADB mouse in Mac terms.
> 3. The system comes with a monochrome display, but I have seen some Apple 2
> computers with a color monitor. Is there an upgrade for that too? Can I
> swap the video card to get a higher resolution? Can I get a period specific
> color display?
There is no video card, video is onboard, including color capability.
You can use any CVBS video monitor or even simply a color TV if it has a
baseband RCA input, but the "Apple Monitor //e" is the best choice as it
can display both high-resolution monochrome and full color with the
Apple, while most other monitors and TVs can only do either one or the
other.
> 4. I read a little about ADTpro. Can I use the audio jacks on my PC to
> connect to the tape jack on the Apple lle for file transfer and storage?
Yes if your PC has a "Microphone in", not just a "Line in". But it is
slow, the variant with the serial card works much faster, and the IIe
might already have one inside its belly, as they were pretty common.
> In
> other words, when I download disk images, can I use ADTpro to both load
> programs onto the Apple and then save any work or documents and such back
> onto the PC?
Yes.
> Can I use the standard line in and line out jacks on my sound
> board?
See above, use Microphone in, not Line in.
> Of course I'm also concerned that my sound board will feedback on
> itself if I have to use a splitter to use both input and output through to
> the Apple's tape jack.
The Apple has TWO tape jacks, one for output, one for input. You just
use two cables, or one that has two plugs per end.
> 5. Where can I find what hardware upgrades are available for the Apple lle
> and what will they do for me?
See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II_peripheral_cards
> 6. Can I install a network card and have access to my PC running Windows 7
> for storage of programs and such?
There weren't any back in the day that are compatible with any modern
network, so you'd have to get a modern Apple-enthusiast card like the
"Uthernet". Unfortunately those tend to be made in rather small numbers,
because of this they are hard to find and usually expensive, if anybody
wants to part with them at all.
> 7. Where can I purchase 5 1/4" floppy diskettes for it. From what I know,
> this computer will only read and write from a single side of the diskette,
> although I know it can be modified slightly to allow flipping the diskette
> to use the other side.
Correct. I got enough 5.25" disks off eBay to last for the next decade
at least, for little money. But make sure you get only DS/DD disks (also
called double density disks and 360KB disks), because the Apple 5.25
drives can't handle HD disks (also called high density or 1.2MB disks).
>
> 8. Is there anything else I should know about about getting it set up and
> running along side My PC???
Remove all cards before you turn it on for the first time. You should go
to a BASIC prompt, where you can test little things, such as whether the
keyboard works. A self-test is activated by holding down the right one
of the two keys with "Apple" logos on them during power on, if it
doesn't say "System OK" after a while there is a problem.
On the Apple specific peripherals go into specific slots. This
convention helps programs find them. The "normal" slots that most Apple
II models have are counted 1 to 7 from left to right, looking at the
keyboard. There is also a longer IIe specific slot further down on the
board, it's the so called auxiliary slot.
The 64K memory expansion card goes into the auxiliary slot (and won't
fit anywhere else), watch out for the marking "keyboard end" which must
(obviously) point to the keyboard. The floppy disk controller card goes
into slot 6 (second from the right). Any hard disk if you have one has
its controller in slot 7. 3.5" floppies, another 5.25" controller for
more than two drives, or RAM disks should be in slot 5. Slot 1 is for
cards that have a printer connected to them and slot 2 is for those that
have a modem or a null-modem cable connected to them. Slot 4 has really
no standard assignment so everything that doesn't fit this list should
probably go there, for example network or sound cards. Avoid slot 3,
many cards don't work in it because it is "special" in several ways, its
function is partially usurped by what ever is in the auxiliary slot.
> Thanks much.
You're welcome, this is a pretty friendly and pretty competent group
compared to the kookery one finds elsewhere on Usenet. So feel free to
ask, but of course googling around a bit first never hurts.
--
Linards Ticmanis
Linards Ticmanis
> On 03/14/2011 04:25 PM, Bettablue wrote:
>
>> 1. I know it doesn't have a GUI as far as operating systems go right now,
>> but since it seems to have 640K of memory, I doubt it will support a newer
>> OS, Am I wrong here? Can I upgrade the memory and install a newer operating
>> system with graphical user interface?
> You don't install an OS on the Apple unless it has a hard disk (again,
> most do not). You just boot it from a floppy, and if you want another,
> you boot it from another floppy. The main ones were DOS 3.3 (which is
> actually several versions, but they're all called DOS 3.3, and they all
> had nothing to do with MS-DOS 3.3), and ProDOS, which has about a dozen
> versions from 1.0 to 2.0.3.
Something I forgot to mention... Most Apple programs, especially games,
bring their own OS right on the disk. So you just plug the game disk
into the drive before you turn on the computer, no need to load DOS first.
One more thing: You can stop the auto-boot process by pressing
CTRL-RESET when you don't want to boot any OS. You can re-boot the
computer by pressing CTRL-OPENAPPLE-RESET, it's much like CTRL-ALT-DEL
on IBMs. You can boot from the controller in a specific slot by entering
the BASIC command PR#<slot number>, for example PR#6 to boot from your
standard floppy controller.
Another: When you connect the floppy cables to the floppy controller
card, if it's the type where the ribbon cables connect directly to a row
of metal posts on the card MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU DON'T MISALIGN THE
CABLE AND CONNECTOR (so that one ore more pins are not in the holes at
one end). Otherwise it's very easy to kill your drives.
Linards Ticmanis
> On 03/14/2011 05:57 PM, Linards Ticmanis wrote:
>> On 03/14/2011 04:25 PM, Bettablue wrote:
Last hint for now: Never ever connect or unplug anything while the power
is on. "hot-plugging ability" was mostly unheard of back then.
Bill Garber
"Linards Ticmanis" <ticm...@gmx.de> wrote in message news:4d7e4bab$0$6772$9b4e...@newsspool3.arcor-online.net...
One way to ensure this is to remove the card from the Apple, connect the cables,
then re-insert the card into the slot. Be sure to get the plug on both rows of pins,
which means that the plug will be flush with the card with the cable coming away
from the card.
Bill
Oliver Schmidt
>> 6. =A0Can I install a network card and have access to my PC running Windo=
>ws 7
>> for storage of programs and such?
>
>Uthernet could do this if software was written. a2retrosystems.com
In fact Uthernet *CAN* do this as software *IS* written.
The latest Contiki (2.5.rc1) i.e. comes with a ProDOS8 wget program:
You enter the HTTP URL and the ProDOS8 filename. Then the program will
download the file from the Web server and save it as ProDOS8 file.
So you can run on your PC any Web server and put files there. The
Windows program HFS (HTTP File Server) is a nice ultra-light Web
server perfectly suited for that purpose.
Regards,
Oliver
Bill Garber
"Oliver Schmidt" <ol...@web.de> wrote in message news:ilv4a6$b3s$1...@online.de...
> Hi,
>
>>> Can I install a network card and have access to my PC running Windows 7
>>> for storage of programs and such?
>>
>>Uthernet could do this if software was written. a2retrosystems.com
>
> In fact Uthernet *CAN* do this as software *IS* written.
>
> The latest Contiki (2.5.rc1) i.e. comes with a ProDOS8 wget program:
> You enter the HTTP URL and the ProDOS8 filename. Then the program
> will download the file from the Web server and save it as ProDOS8 file.
>
> So you can run on your PC any Web server and put files there. The
> Windows program HFS (HTTP File Server) is a nice ultra-light Web
> server perfectly suited for that purpose.
I can vouch for this combination having used it myself in the past. I have
also used Contiki and Uthernet to download from the internet, both images
to real disk, and also files to CFFA.
As for local transfer, Ciderpress on PC and CFFA or Superdrive (1.44M)
in the Apple IIe is a great way to sneakernet images and files to the A2 and
vice-versa.
Bill
rich12345
> The latest Contiki (2.5.rc1) i.e. comes with a ProDOS8 wget program:
> You enter the HTTP URL and the ProDOS8 filename. Then the program will
> download the file from the Web server and save it as ProDOS8 file.
I didn't know about that. Thanks for the tip!
Rich
Oliver Schmidt
>>>> Can I install a network card and have access to my PC running Windows 7
>>>> for storage of programs and such?
>>>Uthernet could do this if software was written. a2retrosystems.com
>> In fact Uthernet *CAN* do this as software *IS* written.
>> [...]
>As for local transfer, Ciderpress on PC and CFFA or Superdrive (1.44M)
>in the Apple IIe is a great way to sneakernet images and files to the A2 and
>vice-versa.
And certainly not to forget: ADTPro nowadays has support for both
Uthernet (and LANceGS) :-)
Regards,
Oliver
Mike Spurgeon
> BTW, I am also in the market for another vintage computer too. I am
> looking for an IBM dual floppy model that came with dual floppy drives
> and either the model F keyboard, a PS/2 or finally an IBM 286 computer
> that used the famous model M keyboard. If you know of a working example,
> compete with display, let me know.
Not sure if anyone would want it, but I have an IBM 'portable', about
the same size as a portable sewing machine but heavier. Last time I
tried, it booted to dos.