help, RGB
Cyrus Roton
There used to be a device, called "Mappler", which converted Apple analog
RGB (15-pin) to IBM digital RGB (9-pin). There seems to be plenty of
cards to output Apple RGB and plenty of IBM type monitors at low prices.
But how to interface the two??? Does anyone have info on this subject?
Cyrus Roton cro...@ridgecrest.ca.us
Ridgecrest Apple User Group
Nathan Mates
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960916191758.10195B-100000@lo-pan>,
Cyrus Roton <cro...@ridgecrest.ca.us> wrote:
>There used to be a device, called "Mappler", which converted Apple analog
>RGB (15-pin) to IBM digital RGB (9-pin). There seems to be plenty of
>cards to output Apple RGB and plenty of IBM type monitors at low prices.
>But how to interface the two??? Does anyone have info on this subject?
An Apple II is not a Macintosh, especially when it comes to RGB
video out. Sure, the connectors are the same size, and both say
they're for Apple analog RGB monitors. But, the GS and most Apple II
RGB cards put out a horizontal sync signal of 15Khz. Pretty much all
modern Mac and PC RGB monitors require at least a 30Khz horizontal
sync signal.
Also, I think that only the CGA/EGA monitors on PCs had 9-pin
digital connectors. SVGA is definitely 15-pin analog. (But, that's a
different 15-pin setup: 3 rows of pins vs 2 for Apples)
Thus, a straightforward Mac RGB -> [S]VGA converter won't work
when connected to an Apple II. And if you want to be asking about a
converter hanging off a Macintosh, you should ask on a Macintosh
newsgroup.
Nathan Mates
--
<*> Nathan Mates http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ <*>
# What are the facts? Again and again and again-- what are the _facts_?
# Shun wishful thinking, avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors
# think-- what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? -R.A. Heinlein
Nathan Mates
In article <madsci-1809...@ppp-64.ts-5.nyc.idt.net>,
Erick Dietrich <mad...@tribeca.ios.com> wrote:
>In article <51nc0f$a...@darla.visi.com>, nat...@visi.com (Nathan Mates) wrote:
>> An Apple II is not a Macintosh, especially when it comes to RGB
>> video out. Sure, the connectors are the same size, and both say
>> they're for Apple analog RGB monitors. But, the GS and most Apple II
>> RGB cards put out a horizontal sync signal of 15Khz. Pretty much all
>> modern Mac and PC RGB monitors require at least a 30Khz horizontal
>> sync signal.
>Just for the record, I was told by several techies that a multisync
>monitor will not work from a IIgs RGB port. However, I have tried a NEC
>MultiSync 3D and 2A model monitors, as well as my father's brand new HP
>multisync and they have all worked.
I knew the NEC Multisync 1 and 2 work (they're listed as such in
the comp.sys.apple2 FAQ) and which is why I said "pretty much all
modern" in reference to monitors. Your average cheapo monitor (or even
a number of 'multisync' ones like my MAG MAX17F (repaired twice,
replaced twice. I'm not gonna buy another) can't hit 15Khz.
When things may or may not work, I give lots of details (like
15Khz) so that people who want to check out if a monitor will work can
pull out the manual and check for themselves. [This is why I like
hardware to reliable: if it says it works, it should work 100% of the
time.]
Ralph Wade Phillips
Hi, Nathan!
Nathan Mates <nat...@visi.com> wrote in article
<51nc0f$a...@darla.visi.com>...
> In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960916191758.10195B-100000@lo-pan>,
> Cyrus Roton <cro...@ridgecrest.ca.us> wrote:
> >There used to be a device, called "Mappler", which converted Apple
analog
> >RGB (15-pin) to IBM digital RGB (9-pin). There seems to be plenty of
> >cards to output Apple RGB and plenty of IBM type monitors at low prices.
> >But how to interface the two??? Does anyone have info on this subject?
Notice three things: 1) Converts Apple analog RGB to IBM !DIGITAL! RGB.
I remember the device, altho I can't for the life of me remember anything
ELSE about it ... save that I saw a schematic of such a device in an old
Taxan RGB monitor book. What the Taxan schemed device did was to weight
the lines somewhat, to rebalance the RGB with the PC's RGBI scheme.
Worked OK - brown never was much to write home about, but .. <B-)
>
> An Apple II is not a Macintosh, especially when it comes to RGB
> video out. Sure, the connectors are the same size, and both say
> they're for Apple analog RGB monitors. But, the GS and most Apple II
> RGB cards put out a horizontal sync signal of 15Khz. Pretty much all
> modern Mac and PC RGB monitors require at least a 30Khz horizontal
> sync signal.
True, but modern PC RGB monitors aren't digital, either.
>
> Also, I think that only the CGA/EGA monitors on PCs had 9-pin
> digital connectors. SVGA is definitely 15-pin analog. (But, that's a
> different 15-pin setup: 3 rows of pins vs 2 for Apples)
Ayep, save for the analog/digital multiple-sync monitors that were common
during the changeover in the PC world from EGA to VGA.
>
> Thus, a straightforward Mac RGB -> [S]VGA converter won't work
> when connected to an Apple II. And if you want to be asking about a
> converter hanging off a Macintosh, you should ask on a Macintosh
> newsgroup.
But he didn't ask for a Mac RGB -> [S]VGA converter. He asked for an
Apple Analog to 9pin Digital RGB converter. Specifying digital kind of
lets out the analog VGA standard, and its derivatives, doesn't it? <B-)
>
> Nathan Mates
>
> --
> <*> Nathan Mates http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ <*>
> # What are the facts? Again and again and again-- what are the _facts_?
> # Shun wishful thinking, avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors
> # think-- what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? -R.A.
Heinlein
Dem's de facts, boss! (To misquote Kingfisher)
RwP
Erick Dietrich
> In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960916191758.10195B-100000@lo-pan>,
> Cyrus Roton <cro...@ridgecrest.ca.us> wrote:
> >There used to be a device, called "Mappler", which converted Apple analog
> >RGB (15-pin) to IBM digital RGB (9-pin). There seems to be plenty of
> >cards to output Apple RGB and plenty of IBM type monitors at low prices.
> >But how to interface the two??? Does anyone have info on this subject?
>
> An Apple II is not a Macintosh, especially when it comes to RGB
> video out. Sure, the connectors are the same size, and both say
> they're for Apple analog RGB monitors. But, the GS and most Apple II
> RGB cards put out a horizontal sync signal of 15Khz. Pretty much all
> modern Mac and PC RGB monitors require at least a 30Khz horizontal
> sync signal.
Just for the record, I was told by several techies that a multisync
monitor will not work from a IIgs RGB port. However, I have tried a NEC
MultiSync 3D and 2A model monitors, as well as my father's brand new HP
multisync and they have all worked.
You might be able to find an older NEC MultiSync. I think I saw Alltech
was selling them. Funny, they're one of the places I called, and they
said it couldn't be done!
My current setup connects my IIgs to a VGA switchbox with a regular IIgs
RGB video cable with one of those adapters that comes with new Apple
multisync monitors, the one thats the opposite of the Mac-to-VGA adapter.
My Quadra is connected to the other side of the switch, and my MultiSync
3D can be shared on the fly. The only problem is that the IIgs screen is
off center a bit.
The video quality is very good, better than with my IIgs RGB monitor. And
I only have one monitor on my desk.
I recently got an Apple IIe RGB card, the Aux slot one. I don't have the
connector for it, the one that would take the header and give me a real
video port. Does anyone have one?
Also, will that card, or an Apple IIc's RGB port work with the IIgs's monitor?
> Also, I think that only the CGA/EGA monitors on PCs had 9-pin
> digital connectors. SVGA is definitely 15-pin analog. (But, that's a
> different 15-pin setup: 3 rows of pins vs 2 for Apples)
Right.
> Thus, a straightforward Mac RGB -> [S]VGA converter won't work
> when connected to an Apple II.
You might have some luck with a more expensive (around $40) adapter that
has a bunch of switches. Then again, you might burn something out.
Proceed with caution.
BTW- Does anyone know anything about connecting ANY Apple II to a
Commodore 2002 monitor? Its got composite inputs, and a 9 pin male RGB
port. Switch on the back allows you to set it to Digital Positive,
Digital Negative and Analog signals. I've used it as an EGA and a Tandy
16 Color monitor in Digital mode.
-Erick
Joseph Lee
Erick Dietrich (mad...@tribeca.ios.com) wrote:
: MultiSync 3D and 2A model monitors, as well as my father's brand new HP
: multisync and they have all worked.
:
Which brand new HP monitor is this?
--
Joseph /================+========+=============+============================\
nugu...@netcom.com | Kronos | Anime Expo | Cal-Animage Epsilon (Anime) >
-------------------------+--------+ '97 | Engineering Tower TEC #201 >
II(> Creative 'Ware <)II | IIGS | Los Angeles | Thursdays, 7pm - 10pm /
Louis Schulman
In <Pine.SUN.3.91.960916191758.10195B-100000@lo-pan>, Cyrus Roton <cro...@ridgecrest.ca.us> writes:
>There used to be a device, called "Mappler", which converted Apple analog
>RGB (15-pin) to IBM digital RGB (9-pin). There seems to be plenty of
>cards to output Apple RGB and plenty of IBM type monitors at low prices.
>But how to interface the two??? Does anyone have info on this subject?
>
big computer discount stores. Whether they would solve this problem
I don't know.
But as far as Apple RGB cards are concerned, what makes you think they
are all 15-pin? I have a Video-7 Color Enhancer for the //e which is a
64k/80 col/RGB card. The output is standard CGA or compatible. I have
it hooked up to an Amdek Color 722 IBM CGA monitor and the color is
better than the SVGA monitor on my PC.
I think there are some faqs or correspondence on Ground that explain that
the //e cards were CGA compatible, while the output from a /c or /gs was
not (memory lapse possible). I seem to recall that your are right about the
/gs output being analog, but everything else was digital.
Anyway, I just plugged the Amdek monitor into the RGB card and it works
fine. And it has multiple color text modes to boot!
Louis
Jeff Blakeney
mad...@tribeca.ios.com (Erick Dietrich) wrote:
>BTW- Does anyone know anything about connecting ANY Apple II to a
>Commodore 2002 monitor? Its got composite inputs, and a 9 pin male RGB
>port. Switch on the back allows you to set it to Digital Positive,
>Digital Negative and Analog signals. I've used it as an EGA and a Tandy
>16 Color monitor in Digital mode.
If the Commodore 2002 has the same pinout as the Commodore 1084 then
you can connect the analog RGB of a IIgs to the 2002 with its switch
in the analog position. The only trick to this, which is what I had
to do to get a 1084 to work with my IIgs, is to fix the composite sync
signal level. I just threw a 75 ohm resistor between the composite
sync and ground and it worked for me.
Any Apple II should be able to connect to the 2002 by using the
composite video input. If you don't get a picture, you might want to
look for a switch that changes between RGB and Composite but I'm just
guessing here.
Erick Dietrich
In article <nugundamD...@netcom.com>, nugu...@netcom.com (Joseph
Lee) wrote:
> Erick Dietrich (mad...@tribeca.ios.com) wrote:
> : MultiSync 3D and 2A model monitors, as well as my father's brand new HP
> : multisync and they have all worked.
>
> :
> Which brand new HP monitor is this?
Its 14", says Hewlett Packad on the front... no model number I can see.
The picture left something to be desired, and I only had it set up for a
moment to test it out.
-Erick
Ralph Wade Phillips
Hi, Eric!
Erick Dietrich <mad...@tribeca.ios.com> wrote in article
<madsci-1809...@ppp-64.ts-5.nyc.idt.net>...
(stuff deleted)
> I recently got an Apple IIe RGB card, the Aux slot one. I don't have the
> connector for it, the one that would take the header and give me a real
> video port. Does anyone have one?
>
> Also, will that card, or an Apple IIc's RGB port work with the IIgs's
monitor?
>
In order ... Nope. And, nope and nope. BTW - The IIc doesn't HAVE an RGB
port, what it HAS is an "Alternative Video Port". It requires some
electronics to make it work with ANY RGB monitor.
RwP