Speed check
Wayne Stewart
and tried some oscillators. I was able to boot up with a 40 mhz
oscillator but not a 42 mhz. So far no problems with either the
built-in drive or an external 5.25" drive.
Does anyone have any utility that might clock a IIc+?
I'll see about trying some faster SRAM and maybe a faster processor
if I have one
Wayne
Michael J. Mahon
Far out!! I been wondering how far overclocking could take a IIc+!
A simple speed test is to write an Applesoft program to do a
FOR-NEXT delay loop, then beep, then loop back to the delay.
The rate of beeping is easily timed and gives a useful speed
ratio. (The beep will probably run at normal speed, but the
majority of the time is spent in the FOR-NEXT, which should
run at full speed.)
Let us know what you find!
-michael
Check out amazing quality 8-bit Apple sound on my
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
Sheldon Simms
> Wayne Stewart wrote:
>
>>I pulled the 16 mhz oscillator out of my IIc+ and installed a socket
>>and tried some oscillators. I was able to boot up with a 40 mhz
>>oscillator but not a 42 mhz. So far no problems with either the
>>built-in drive or an external 5.25" drive.
>>
>>Does anyone have any utility that might clock a IIc+?
>>
>>I'll see about trying some faster SRAM and maybe a faster processor
>>if I have one
>
> Far out!! I been wondering how far overclocking could take a IIc+!
>
> A simple speed test is to write an Applesoft program to do a
> FOR-NEXT delay loop, then beep, then loop back to the delay.
> The rate of beeping is easily timed and gives a useful speed
> ratio. (The beep will probably run at normal speed, but the
> majority of the time is spent in the FOR-NEXT, which should
> run at full speed.)
As soon as I read the original post, I whipped out my soldering
iron and went to work. I socketed the oscillator and then started
trying out different speeds. For me, the fastest working oscillator
is 32 Mhz. At 40 Mhz it almost works, but crashes into the monitor
at startup.
I don't think the SRAM is a problem here, at least on my IIc+.
Mine has 12ns SRAMs built in and that should be good enough for
a 64 Mhz oscillator at least. However, I do notice that the IIc+
has a 74F00, just like the Zip GS board, so I'll try replacing
that with a 74HC00 first and see what that does.
After that I might look at the cpu. My IIc+ seems to have a 65c02
that was custom made for Apple. The markings are:
VLSI
8843AV R0804
VC2995-0001
344-6502-1
(R)(C) APPLE '87
I'm guessing that Apple licensed the core from WDC and had VLSI
manufacture the chips. I don't have any idea what it's speed rating
would be...
-Sheldon
Wayne Stewart
Sheldon Simms wrote:
> As soon as I read the original post, I whipped out my soldering
> iron and went to work. I socketed the oscillator and then started
> trying out different speeds. For me, the fastest working oscillator
> is 32 Mhz. At 40 Mhz it almost works, but crashes into the monitor
> at startup.
>
> I don't think the SRAM is a problem here, at least on my IIc+.
> Mine has 12ns SRAMs built in and that should be good enough for
> a 64 Mhz oscillator at least. However, I do notice that the IIc+
> has a 74F00, just like the Zip GS board, so I'll try replacing
> that with a 74HC00 first and see what that does.
>
> After that I might look at the cpu. My IIc+ seems to have a 65c02
> that was custom made for Apple. The markings are:
>
> VLSI
> 8843AV R0804
> VC2995-0001
> 344-6502-1
> (R)(C) APPLE '87
>
> I'm guessing that Apple licensed the core from WDC and had VLSI
> manufacture the chips. I don't have any idea what it's speed rating
> would be...
>
> -Sheldon
I think you'll find that that SRAM is 100ns, not 10ns but I don't think
that that's the bottleneck. I tried some 35ns SRAM but it didn't help
any.
The IIc+ I had apart last night uses the same processor as yours. My
other one came with a different brand of processor, a Rockwell R65C02P4.
I have a few of these but unforunately I can't boot at the same speed
with these as with the other processor.
My first suspicion is that the processors too slow. Unfortunately
getting a faster 65C02 without having to order $100 worth of 65c02s
might be a problem.
Still 8 or 10mhz on a IIc+ isn't bad.
Wayne
Bill Garber
"Wayne Stewart" <way...@telus.dotnet> wrote in message
news:cMN0b.22623$at3.7825@edtnps84...
> Sheldon Simms wrote:
> > As soon as I read the original post, I whipped out my soldering
<snip>
> I think you'll find that that SRAM is 100ns, not 10ns but I don't think
> that that's the bottleneck. I tried some 35ns SRAM but it didn't help
> any.
>
> The IIc+ I had apart last night uses the same processor as yours. My
> other one came with a different brand of processor, a Rockwell R65C02P4.
> I have a few of these but unforunately I can't boot at the same speed
> with these as with the other processor.
> My first suspicion is that the processors too slow. Unfortunately
> getting a faster 65C02 without having to order $100 worth of 65c02s
> might be a problem.
> Still 8 or 10mhz on a IIc+ isn't bad.
>
> Wayne
This guy has 14 mhz 65c02 and 65c816's. CHEAP! too.
Could solve some of the bottlenecking, or, could cause
more. ;-) If anyone is going to order some, I will take 2
of each. Providing you don't mind getting them for me.
I was going to get a few next month myself anyway.
- Mike Naberezny (Mike.Na...@6502.org) http://www.6502.org
65C02 Microprocessor PDIP W65C02S8P-14 $4.75
65C816 Microprocessor PDIP W65C816S8P-14 $5.75
Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - will...@comcast.net
---
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Sheldon Simms
>
>
> Sheldon Simms wrote:
>
>> As soon as I read the original post, I whipped out my soldering
>> iron and went to work. I socketed the oscillator and then started
>> trying out different speeds. For me, the fastest working oscillator
>> is 32 Mhz. At 40 Mhz it almost works, but crashes into the monitor
>> at startup.
>>
>> I don't think the SRAM is a problem here, at least on my IIc+.
>> Mine has 12ns SRAMs built in and that should be good enough for
>> a 64 Mhz oscillator at least.
> I think you'll find that that SRAM is 100ns, not 10ns but I don't think
> that that's the bottleneck.
You are right. The SRAMs I have are Hitachi HM6264ALP-12. I just stupidly
assumed that was 12ns when it's actually 120 ns. Well I will go ahead
and put in some faster SRAM and see if I can get at least the 40Mhz
oscillator working.
I would like to try a faster 65c02 too. It would be really nice to get
this IIc+ going at 16 or 20 Mhz.
Jason Whorton
"Wayne Stewart" <way...@telus.dotnet> wrote in message
Wayne
***********
Does it seem any faster? Did you ever find a benchmark software?
Very interesting!
Jason Whorton
Sheldon Simms
>
> "Wayne Stewart" <way...@telus.dotnet> wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have any utility that might clock a IIc+?
>
> Did you ever find a benchmark software?
There is a benchmark disk floating around somewhere which
was originally intended to measure the relative speeds of
Apple II emulators, but I imagine it would be fine for
this purpose as well.
I'm not sure what Wayne was asking for though, I feel pretty
confident that if you put a 40Mhz oscillator in your IIc+,
that the 65c02 will be running at 10Mhz. But how this affects
application programs is highly dependant on how they use
memory and peripherals.
Sheldon Simms
> Well I will go ahead
> and put in some faster SRAM and see if I can get at least the 40Mhz
> oscillator working.
Sorry to follow up myself, but I just was wondering if perhaps there is
a way to install 32kx8 SRAMs instead of the 8kx8 that are in there now?
-Sheldon
Sean McNamara
Sheldon Simms <sheldo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There is a benchmark disk floating around somewhere which
> was originally intended to measure the relative speeds of
> Apple II emulators, but I imagine it would be fine for
> this purpose as well.
There's a speed test .dsk file included with the appalm emulator for
Palm PDAs - palmapple.sourceforge.net - not sure if it's available
anywhere in plain .dsk format, it's been converted for that package to a
palm .pdb (not sure offhand if the included .dsk->.pdb utility can
reverse the process).
Sean
PS My Palm IIIx runs about 1/8th the speed of a //e - certainly not
great, but amazingly OK for text-based games like Star Trek (esp. with a
keyboard attached - Graffiti is extremely slow).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean McNamara mailto:se...@macassist.com.au
MacAssist Ph: (02) 8920 0866
Authorised Apple Solutions Reseller Fax: (02) 8920 0877
ABN 95 758 412 281 Mobile: 0414 270 132
Wayne Stewart
Sheldon Simms wrote:
> You are right. The SRAMs I have are Hitachi HM6264ALP-12. I just stupidly
> assumed that was 12ns when it's actually 120 ns. Well I will go ahead
> and put in some faster SRAM and see if I can get at least the 40Mhz
> oscillator working.
>
> I would like to try a faster 65c02 too. It would be really nice to get
> this IIc+ going at 16 or 20 Mhz.
I was fortunate in that mine had 100ns SRAM.
I never did like the way they marked a lot of RAM, especially the way
-12 can meam 12 or 120. In some cases all of the numbers are
proprietry.
Wayne
Wayne Stewart
Jason Whorton wrote:
> Does it seem any faster? Did you ever find a benchmark software?
>
> Very interesting!
> Jason Whorton
It does seem faster but I'd like to do some testing. I've been busy
today so I haven't looked any further into benchmark software.
Wayne
Wayne Stewart
Sheldon Simms wrote:
> Sorry to follow up myself, but I just was wondering if perhaps there is
> a way to install 32kx8 SRAMs instead of the 8kx8 that are in there now?
That's something to look into. If it even works it'll take some
modifications to the circuitboard.
If you just install 32k SRAM it'll only be used as 8k. Only reason
you might want to do that is if you either have some on hand or if
it's easier to pick up fast 32k SRAM.
Wayne
Glenn Jones
Wayne, the original Zip chip came with utilities .... I can't remember if
there was a system speed utility but I will dig my original out and have a
look.
Glenn
Bill Garber
"Glenn Jones" <rg.j...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:TZW0b.211410$4UE....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
ZipChip Utilities has a Diags program on it. I can pop the Zip8000
image over to you if you like Wayne.
Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - will...@comcast.net
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Michael J. Mahon
>It does seem faster but I'd like to do some testing. I've been busy
>today so I haven't looked any further into benchmark software.
Busy is certainly understandable. ;-)
But you don't need a special program to get a quite practical
indication of relative speed. Just time an empty FOR-NEXT
loop.
-michael
Check out amazing quality sound for 8-bit Apples on my
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/