Apple ///: burned Power Supply
Jerome Vernet
Today, I powered on my two Apple ///, essentialy to take pictures of
them, to sell one on eBay (the older one, very first version on Apple ///).
Both of them boot, then, sudenly, the power supply of the oldest made a
crack noise, with a big smoke :(.
It still work some second making cracks and smoke, before I shut down
the power on the wall.
Here is a picture of the smoked componant:
http://membres.lycos.fr/jvernet/Apple3PS/Apple3PS.html
See on the page the video: I was testing it with a testing software that
was speaking "Machine OK". Then, it blew up ;)
What can I do ?
--
-----
Jerome Vernet
Petite Collection de vieux micros
http://perso.orange.fr/jerome.vernet/
James Littlejohn
wrote:
Simply replace the capacitor. The same thing happened to my Apple
III.
http://8bitsystem.com/Apple%20III/
Jerome Vernet
>
> Simply replace the capacitor. The same thing happened to my Apple
> III.
> http://8bitsystem.com/Apple%20III/
Looks like the same thing ! Can you give me any reference of the
replacement capacitor you used ?
Michael J. Mahon
> James Littlejohn a écrit :
>
>>
>> Simply replace the capacitor. The same thing happened to my Apple
>> III.
>> http://8bitsystem.com/Apple%20III/
>
>
> Looks like the same thing ! Can you give me any reference of the
> replacement capacitor you used ?
I'd recommend at least a 400v capacitor--and if you can get one
rated for AC, all the better.
I can't find an Apple /// power supply schematic, but it looks
like this capacitor is across the AC line to suppress transients.
If it's hard to find, a 0.1uF capacitor would work well enough.
-michael
NadaPong: Network game demo for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."
Michael J. Mahon
> Jerome Vernet wrote:
>
>> James Littlejohn a écrit :
>>
>>>
>>> Simply replace the capacitor. The same thing happened to my Apple
>>> III.
>>> http://8bitsystem.com/Apple%20III/
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks like the same thing ! Can you give me any reference of the
>> replacement capacitor you used ?
>
>
> I'd recommend at least a 400v capacitor--and if you can get one
> rated for AC, all the better.
>
> I can't find an Apple /// power supply schematic, but it looks
> like this capacitor is across the AC line to suppress transients.
>
> If it's hard to find, a 0.1uF capacitor would work well enough.
Upon closer examination of the photos, I think the two disk ceramic
caps are the line bypass capacitors. It's probably better to stay
with the original 0.22uF value.
Jerome Vernet
> Jerome Vernet wrote:
>> James Littlejohn a écrit :
>>
>>>
>>> Simply replace the capacitor. The same thing happened to my Apple
>>> III.
>>> http://8bitsystem.com/Apple%20III/
>>
>>
>> Looks like the same thing ! Can you give me any reference of the
>> replacement capacitor you used ?
>
> I'd recommend at least a 400v capacitor--and if you can get one
> rated for AC, all the better.
>
> I can't find an Apple /// power supply schematic, but it looks
> like this capacitor is across the AC line to suppress transients.
>
> If it's hard to find, a 0.1uF capacitor would work well enough.
>
> -michael
>
http://www.selectronic.fr/upload/produit/img1g/8710a.jpg
It's a .22 uF X2 capacitor (for AC line), 250V
Polymorph
wrote:
Exactly the same mains filter capacitor (or *very* similar) burnt out
in two of my //e power supplies. It seems this is pretty common when
the power supply has not seen any use for a long period of time.
It is fairly easy to find replacement capacitors and do the
replacement. I replaced the failed capacitor in both of my //e power
supplies and both are now working fine.
BTW, doesn't the smoke smell bad?!? I couldn't get the whiff out of
the house for over a week. :-)
cheers,
-p
Patrick Schaefer
> I'd recommend at least a 400v capacitor--and if you can get one
> rated for AC, all the better.
It has to be rated for AC, because it is located before the fuse. These
safety-critical capacitors are marked "X2". They can easily be
recognized by their UL, VDE, S, TÜV etc markings -- no regular capacitor
has these.
Recycle one from any broken household appliance that has a motor inside...
Patrick
--
In case your mailing to my Lycos address gets bounced with an
"550 reverse connect to MXs failed" message, please re-send it one
or two times within one hour and complain at
support-p...@lycosxxl.de
The Lycos support tries to locate and fix this problem for more than
a year now. Whoever can help please mail them! Thx.
N.N. Thayer
Apple /// power supply schematic is here:
http://www.1000bit.net/SUPPORT/SCHEMA/a3/050-0057-a.jpg
(They have what looks like the complete set.)
Michael J. Mahon
> Michael J. Mahon a écrit :
>
>> Jerome Vernet wrote:
>>
>>> James Littlejohn a écrit :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Simply replace the capacitor. The same thing happened to my Apple
>>>> III.
>>>> http://8bitsystem.com/Apple%20III/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like the same thing ! Can you give me any reference of the
>>> replacement capacitor you used ?
>>
>>
>> I'd recommend at least a 400v capacitor--and if you can get one
>> rated for AC, all the better.
>>
>> I can't find an Apple /// power supply schematic, but it looks
>> like this capacitor is across the AC line to suppress transients.
>>
>> If it's hard to find, a 0.1uF capacitor would work well enough.
>>
>> -michael
>>
> Thanks ! I think I found what may be good:
> http://www.selectronic.fr/upload/produit/img1g/8710a.jpg
>
> It's a .22 uF X2 capacitor (for AC line), 250V
Perfect.
Michael J. Mahon
> Michael J. Mahon schrieb:
>
>> I'd recommend at least a 400v capacitor--and if you can get one
>> rated for AC, all the better.
>
>
> It has to be rated for AC, because it is located before the fuse. These
> safety-critical capacitors are marked "X2". They can easily be
> recognized by their UL, VDE, S, TÜV etc markings -- no regular capacitor
> has these.
>
> Recycle one from any broken household appliance that has a motor inside...
The one he referenced is an X2 with a 250vac rating, as well as being a
perfect physical match!
Michael J. Mahon
Thanks for the reference!
In the schematic, they only show two 0.1uF capacitors bridging the
AC line, plus two disk ceramics--revisions, revisions...
Wow, Apple must have had FCC trouble--I've never seen a computer
power supply so heavily RFI filtered on the AC side!
Michael J. Mahon
> On Jan 25, 12:17 am, Jerome Vernet <vernet.jeromePASDES...@wanadoo.fr>
> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Today, I powered on my two Apple ///, essentialy to take pictures of
>>
>>Both of them boot, then, sudenly, the power supply of the oldest made a
>>crack noise, with a big smoke :(.
>>
>>It still work some second making cracks and smoke, before I shut down
>>the power on the wall.
>>
>>Here is a picture of the smoked componant:
>>
>>http://membres.lycos.fr/jvernet/Apple3PS/Apple3PS.html
>>
>>See on the page the video: I was testing it with a testing software that
>> was speaking "Machine OK". Then, it blew up ;)
>>
>>What can I do ?
>>
>>--
>>-----
>>Jerome Vernet
>>Petite Collection de vieux microshttp://perso.orange.fr/jerome.vernet/
>
>
> Exactly the same mains filter capacitor (or *very* similar) burnt out
> in two of my //e power supplies. It seems this is pretty common when
> the power supply has not seen any use for a long period of time.
>
> It is fairly easy to find replacement capacitors and do the
> replacement. I replaced the failed capacitor in both of my //e power
> supplies and both are now working fine.
>
> BTW, doesn't the smoke smell bad?!? I couldn't get the whiff out of
> the house for over a week. :-)
Although it's certainly not the case here, this used to be one of the
uses of PCBs!
Jerome Vernet
> BTW, doesn't the smoke smell bad?!? I couldn't get the whiff out of
> the house for over a week. :-)
The smoke smelt awfully bad! it burned in my office, it still stinks, 3
days later !
In fact, each time I burned any electronic component, it was each time
capacitor, and each time, the smoke smell awfully !
;)
Jerome Vernet
>>>
>> http://www.selectronic.fr/upload/produit/img1g/8710a.jpg
>>
>> It's a .22 uF X2 capacitor (for AC line), 250V
>
> Perfect.
are on the PSU. Next, make welds is not my cup of tea...
Michael J. Mahon
> Michael J. Mahon a écrit :
>
>>>>
>>> Thanks ! I think I found what may be good:
>>> http://www.selectronic.fr/upload/produit/img1g/8710a.jpg
>>>
>>> It's a .22 uF X2 capacitor (for AC line), 250V
>>
>>
>> Perfect.
>
> Thanks to confirm. I buyed 2 of them, plus 2 .1uF of the same type, that
> are on the PSU. Next, make welds is not my cup of tea...
If you haven't soldered before:
1) Use a low-wattage (<30W) "pencil" iron.
2) Use 60/40 (or 63/37) *rosin core* solder of small gauge.
3) Clean the heated iron tip on a damp sponge before soldering
each joint.
4) Heat the joint and apply solder to the joint, not the iron.
5) Don't heat a joint for more than a few seconds to avoid
overheating.
6) Clean excess solder from pads and holes first (a toothpick
can be useful for opening a solder-filled hole).
7) Insert components with full leads.
8) Trim excess lead length after soldering.
and
9) Practice a few times on something that doesn't matter!
You'll find it's pretty easy with some practice.
Jerome Vernet
>
> If you haven't soldered before:
Yes I did, a little. It wasn't a good job ;). Some soldering on (very)
big point on a SE/30 PSU. "A big pie", word to word translation from a
french sentence, "un gros pâté"...
>
[skip *excellent advices*]
Thanks for that !
>
> and
>
> 9) Practice a few times on something that doesn't matter!
That's the point. I need to practice, I also need to have a good
soldering iron pane. My main problem is: how removing the burned
capacitor? The last time I tried, I kill the componant I was trying to
remove ;). it was on an old PC, doesn't matter ;).
>
> You'll find it's pretty easy with some practice.
I need ! Thanks ! Because I'm afraid about killing definitively my old
Apple.
Michael J. Mahon
> Michael J. Mahon a écrit :
>
>>
>> If you haven't soldered before:
>
> Yes I did, a little. It wasn't a good job ;). Some soldering on (very)
> big point on a SE/30 PSU. "A big pie", word to word translation from a
> french sentence, "un gros pâté"...
If you mean that it was a large copper foil area that was soldered,
then for that you will need 25W-30W, and may need to apply some
solder to the junction between the iron tip and the pad to get
better heat conduction.
You don't need to melt all the solder on a pad, as long as all of
the solder in contact with the component lead is well melted.
>>
> [skip *excellent advices*]
>
> Thanks for that !
>
>>
>> and
>>
>> 9) Practice a few times on something that doesn't matter!
>
> That's the point. I need to practice, I also need to have a good
> soldering iron pane. My main problem is: how removing the burned
> capacitor? The last time I tried, I kill the componant I was trying to
> remove ;). it was on an old PC, doesn't matter ;).
And in this, case, too, the old component is already destroyed, so you
can just cut the leads from the component and use needle-nose pliers
to remove them as you heat the joint with the soldering iron. Then
you'll usually have to open the hole in the pad with a toothpick or
other probe to insert the new component lead.
>>
>> You'll find it's pretty easy with some practice.
>
>
> I need ! Thanks ! Because I'm afraid about killing definitively my old
> Apple.
Old printed circuit boards are easy to find, so practice should help
boost your confidence.
Michael J. Mahon
One other note on practice--try removing components and then
re-soldering them a few times in the same place. That way you'll
also get a feel for how much heat it takes to cause the copper
to delaminate from the board.