Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: "BLuRry" <brendan.rob...@gmail.com>
Date: 23 Jun 2006 00:20:58 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 23 2006 3:20 am
Subject: Going beyond 16 colors...
Previously, I experimented with flickering between all combinations of
16x16 colors to produce roughly 144-ish colors. However, most of these colors were rather jarring to look at because of the high amount of objectionable flicker. Now that applewin has a convienent "Bload" facility (which helps with rapid prototyping of code) and I have a //c that I can send arbitrary code to quickly (using apple game server), I have been able to work on this more now. (though if anyone can help me find a better way to do VBL detection on a //c, I am all ears) I marked off the colors that are completely unviewable and stripped it I have also updated the apple program to black out the unviewable -B You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: heuser.mar...@freenet.de
Date: 23 Jun 2006 09:13:18 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 23 2006 12:13 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
BLuRry wrote: If you have a standard NTSC TV set you'll get 30 hz for the "combined > I have also updated the apple program to black out the unviewable picture". This flickers quite noticeably and will give you eye strain in the long run, IMHO. With PAL its only 25 hz - and believe me: It flickers like hell, Because of this I never used similar trickery with the 8 bit Ataris to However, you may get much better results with a TV set that is capable bye You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: "BLuRry" <brendan.rob...@gmail.com>
Date: 23 Jun 2006 10:23:57 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 23 2006 1:23 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
> With PAL its only 25 hz - and believe me: It flickers like hell, Exactly, in fact almost any color alternated with white flickers > especially with bright colors. horribly -- even the lighter colors. However, there are a few colors where the flicker is not as bad or noticable and a small handful that don't *appear* to flicker AT ALL -- at least not on the zenith NTSC television I was plugged in this week's hotel room. If you alternate between red/magenta (1) and dark blue (2) you get a nice solid dark purple that doesn't kill your eyes. Try it. :-) -B You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:21:15 -0700
Local: Sat, Jun 24 2006 1:21 am
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
BLuRry wrote: The eye is a remarkable system, and exhibits widely varying sensitivity >>With PAL its only 25 hz - and believe me: It flickers like hell, >>especially with bright colors. > Exactly, in fact almost any color alternated with white flickers to flicker based on absolute brightness, relative brightness, and color, as well as, of course, frequency. The angular area of the flicker has a big effect, too, with flickering details being much less obvious than large areas (though small-area flicker remains quite visible). Several scientific instruments and measurement techniques are based on -michael Parallel computing for 8-bit Apple II's! "The wastebasket is our most important design You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: TJFM <nintendolog...@nospam.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:07:43 GMT
Local: Tues, Jul 4 2006 1:07 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:13:18 -0700, heuser.marcus wrote: Agreed. doing that can get painful very fast. > Because of this I never used similar trickery with the 8 bit Ataris to > display 256 "real" colors or the interlaced modes of the Amiga with > twice the vertical resolution. However, I was wondering about the use of a similar technique. I believe it works by essentially halving the horizontal resolution to increase colour depth. I think it works by utilising two columns to create colour instead of one. It looks pretty ordinary up close, but stand back a little and it becomes quite effective. Combine that effect with this page flipping technique, and far more perceived colours may be possible. Only problem is, I'm not at all sure it would work given the colour creation constraints of the platform. It's something to think about, anyway. -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: "BLuRry" <brendan.rob...@gmail.com>
Date: 4 Jul 2006 13:02:40 -0700
Local: Tues, Jul 4 2006 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
> However, I was wondering about the use of a similar technique. I believe This is what most popular drawing programs did, basically checkerboard > it works by essentially halving the horizontal resolution to increase > colour depth. patterns between two different colors. Trouble is that with the color bleed you don't really see the colors correctly when certain combinations are next to each other... -B You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: heuser.mar...@freenet.de
Date: 4 Jul 2006 13:06:26 -0700
Local: Tues, Jul 4 2006 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
BLuRry wrote: Ha ha, beat me to it! ;o) > > However, I was wondering about the use of a similar technique. I believe > > it works by essentially halving the horizontal resolution to increase > > colour depth. > This is what most popular drawing programs did, basically checkerboard > Trouble is that with the color bleed you don't really see the colors Which was mostly intentional, I'm sure. > correctly when certain combinations are next to each other... And which is why I prefer the II(e/c) platform for non-GS-software over bye You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: "BLuRry" <brendan.rob...@gmail.com>
Date: 5 Jul 2006 12:09:24 -0700
Local: Wed, Jul 5 2006 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
> > This is what most popular drawing programs did, basically checkerboard GMTA. ;-) > > patterns between two different colors. > Ha ha, beat me to it! ;o) > > Trouble is that with the color bleed you don't really see the colors Yeah, but it makes the image look rather gritty. Sure, the scott adams > > correctly when certain combinations are next to each other... > Which was mostly intentional, I'm sure. graphic adventures used the penguin (whoops polarware) drawing routines to push out some amazing looking stuff. But it was difficult to view on a green screen. And you lose resolution on top of that unless you're filling large areas with one "color". You can't do gradients or other rapid color transitions very easily. Some colors when alternated actually produce a black-and-white If I can understand how programmatic dithering works I might be able to You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:28:49 -0700
Local: Wed, Jul 5 2006 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
No, that's not why. ;-) There are no "overlapping pixels" on an Apple.
Unlike the other systems you mention (which generate a true chroma (BTW, the reason everyone designed for NTSC color is that other ways There are two difficulties with Apple color that must be designed around The problem with using a "reduced palette" technique to synthesize -michael Parallel computing for 8-bit Apple II's! "The wastebasket is our most important design You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.programmer
From: "Joshua Bell" <inexorablet...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 02:41:21 GMT
Local: Wed, Jul 5 2006 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Going beyond 16 colors...
Michael J. Mahon wrote: I very recently picked up the book Applied Concepts in Microcomputer > Unlike the other systems you mention (which generate a true chroma Graphics by Bruce Artwick (Sublogic, Flight Simulator) off of an Amazon second hand seller for a whopping USD$5.44 including shipping. Awesome book. Until I read it I had only self-invented hypothesis for how Apple color artifacting worked, and zero knowledge of NTSC. Although I've done a lot of graphics programming, I was always abstracted away from the display hardware sufficiently to ignore it. FWIW, my "folk hypothesis" growing up was to consider the horizontal signal Now I *know* that NTSC does not address individual pixels, but my Looking at page 96, I see that it's strangely almost correct - there are 180 This also explains the "fringing" rather nicely. The pattern Really, at the price, if you're doing Apple graphics programming you gotta Joshua You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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