Best Assembler for 8-bit Apples?
D Finnigan
and some other notes and books which I am fortunate to have around the home.
Up until now, I've been using the Apple Monitor and Mini Assembler to
input the mnemonics or the raw hex codes. Now I want to get started on
something more in-depth and I realize that I need a serious assembler.
Thus, my question is this: based on the following list of requirements,
which assembler does the csa2p community recommend?
- Must assemble code for 6502
- Must be relatively easy to use (no esoteric commands)
- Must have an intuitive line editor
- Must be easy to transfer source and object code to a modern machine
(ie, source files should be plain ASCII)
I'll be doing all development on a real Apple II, likely a IIgs, so I
need something that I can deal with.
e p chandler
Most of the programs I developed on the Apple 2 did not need macros
and ran under Applesoft / Apple DOS 3.3. My preference was for Randy
Hyde's Lisa assembler.
advanatages:
- no separate editor program involved
- easy to run small programs from within the system
- I liked the mnemonics and pseudo ops, including EPZ (equate - page
zero)
- IIRC it was a one pass assembler (?)
- fast (it tokenizes its source code)
disadvanatages:
- some hacks needed to read/write standard text files (source files
are "L" type).
- it hooks DOS and plays games with LC memory
Glen Bredon's Merlin (aka Big Mac) is a fine assembler. I've also used
both DOS toolkit and ProDOS toolkit assemblers.
For *learning* asm, Lisa and DOS were good enough for me.
--- elliot
mdj
> I'm learning assembly language using Roger Wagner's book Assembly Lines
> and some other notes and books which I am fortunate to have around the home.
>
> Up until now, I've been using the Apple Monitor and Mini Assembler to
> input the mnemonics or the raw hex codes. Now I want to get started on
> something more in-depth and I realize that I need a serious assembler.
>
> Thus, my question is this: based on the following list of requirements,
> which assembler does the csa2p community recommend?
>
> - Must assemble code for 6502
> - Must be relatively easy to use (no esoteric commands)
> - Must have an intuitive line editor
> - Must be easy to transfer source and object code to a modern machine
> (ie, source files should be plain ASCII)
Merlin 8 (or 16 since you're using a IIgs) satisfies all these
requirements except the last. Since you're a beginner I'd recommend
using this for the moment.
IMO, The ProDOS Toolkit Assembler (EDASM) was the finest 8-bit
assembler but it really depends what you're personal prejudices are.
Merlin is a safe bet since there's plenty of help available for it
here.
Matt
Michael J. Mahon
> On Nov 30, 11:15 am, D Finnigan <dog_...@macgui.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm learning assembly language using Roger Wagner's book Assembly Lines
>>and some other notes and books which I am fortunate to have around the home.
>>
>>Up until now, I've been using the Apple Monitor and Mini Assembler to
>>input the mnemonics or the raw hex codes. Now I want to get started on
>>something more in-depth and I realize that I need a serious assembler.
>>
>>Thus, my question is this: based on the following list of requirements,
>>which assembler does the csa2p community recommend?
>>
>>- Must assemble code for 6502
>>- Must be relatively easy to use (no esoteric commands)
>>- Must have an intuitive line editor
>>- Must be easy to transfer source and object code to a modern machine
>>(ie, source files should be plain ASCII)
>
>
> Merlin 8 (or 16 since you're using a IIgs) satisfies all these
> requirements except the last. Since you're a beginner I'd recommend
> using this for the moment.
And it can easily "import" text files, using the "fix" editor command.
CiderPress lists Merlin source files as text, so you can easily
copy and paste them in text form for "exporting" if necessary.
-michael
NadaNet and AppleCrate II: parallel computing for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."
John B. Matthews
<a73dd6a7-226d-435e...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
mdj <mdj...@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree. In addition to EDASM, Kyan's assembler meets the requirements.
Both use plain ASCII with lines delimited by CR.
> Merlin is a safe bet since there's plenty of help available for it
> here.
In addition to EDASM, I used BigMac, a Merlin predecessor. Both have
usable line editors; but for wholesale work, cross-editing is easy with
AppleCommander or CiderPress:
<http://applecommander.sourceforge.net/>
<http://ciderpress.sourceforge.net/>
--
John B. Matthews
trashgod at gmail dot com
<http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
D Finnigan
> In article
> <a73dd6a7-226d-435e...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> mdj <mdj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Thanks for all of the suggestions. Bill Buckels sent me an email suggesting
that I use the LISA assembler.
Fortunately, I copies of Merlin, LISA, BigMac and the ProDOS toolkit on disk
already (though I haven't looked at them yet, ack!) so I guess it's up to me
now to finally boot them up and see which one grabs me.
John B. Matthews
dog...@macgui.com (D Finnigan) wrote:
I forgot all about the Lazer Interactive Symbolic Assembler (LISA)!
IIRC, Randy Hyde stored the source in tokenized form. If you take her
for a spin, you might be on the lookout for import/export commands.
Michael J. Mahon
Having complete and usable documentation is a very important
consideration as well.
mdj
> In article
> <a73dd6a7-226d-435e-b4af-f9ca50bdf...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> mdj <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 11:15 am, D Finnigan <dog_...@macgui.com> wrote:
> > > I'm learning assembly language using Roger Wagner's book Assembly
> > > Lines and some other notes and books which I am fortunate to have
> > > around the home.
>
> > > Up until now, I've been using the Apple Monitor and Mini Assembler
> > > to input the mnemonics or the raw hex codes. Now I want to get
> > > started on something more in-depth and I realize that I need a
> > > serious assembler.
>
> > > Thus, my question is this: based on the following list of
> > > requirements, which assembler does the csa2p community recommend?
>
> > > - Must assemble code for 6502
> > > - Must be relatively easy to use (no esoteric commands)
> > > - Must have an intuitive line editor
> > > - Must be easy to transfer source and object code to a modern machine
> > > (ie, source files should be plain ASCII)
>
> > Merlin 8 (or 16 since you're using a IIgs) satisfies all these
> > requirements except the last. Since you're a beginner I'd recommend
> > using this for the moment.
>
> > IMO, The ProDOS Toolkit Assembler (EDASM) was the finest 8-bit
> > assembler but it really depends what you're personal prejudices are.
>
> I agree. In addition to EDASM, Kyan's assembler meets the requirements.
> Both use plain ASCII with lines delimited by CR.
The thing that makes it 'nice' IMO is the fact that it's a command
line driven assembler, meaning you can easily script it.
Since there's no full screen editor in EDASM, you have to provide your
own. My preference here is AppleWriter (which is also scriptable via
WPL). The nice thing is that for larger multi-file projects you can
whip up a 'makefile' which EDASM can then EXEC. If you combine this
with a nice program selector (I like ProSEL) you can very nicely
automate moving between different projects and tools.
That said, there's nothing quite like the instant gratification that
Merlin provides. In Merlin 16 you can literally press OA-A in the full
screen editor to assemble your file. In Merlin 8 it's only slightly
more complex :-)
Matt
D Finnigan
> D Finnigan wrote:
>> John B. Matthewswrote:
>>
>>>In article
>>><a73dd6a7-226d-435e...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>>> mdj <mdj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. Bill Buckels sent me an email
>> suggesting
>> that I use the LISA assembler.
>>
>> Fortunately, I copies of Merlin, LISA, BigMac and the ProDOS toolkit on
>> disk
>> already (though I haven't looked at them yet, ack!) so I guess it's up to
>> me
>> now to finally boot them up and see which one grabs me.
>
> Having complete and usable documentation is a very important
> consideration as well.
>
That's the thing I [have] the disks (left out the verb back there) but no
documentation for any of them.
Michael J. Mahon
Merlin documentation is avaialble on-line, which is a big help.
>http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/programming/assembler/merlin/
e p chandler
> Michael J. Mahonwrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > D Finnigan wrote:
> >> John B. Matthewswrote:
>
> >>>In article
> >>> mdj <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Thanks for all of the suggestions. Bill Buckels sent me an email
> >> suggesting
> >> that I use the LISA assembler.
>
> >> Fortunately, I copies of Merlin, LISA, BigMac and the ProDOS toolkit on
> >> disk
> >> already (though I haven't looked at them yet, ack!) so I guess it's up to
> >> me
> >> now to finally boot them up and see which one grabs me.
>
> > Having complete and usable documentation is a very important
> > consideration as well.
>
> That's the thing I [have] the disks (left out the verb back there) but no
>
Documentation for Lisa 2.5 is buried on one of the mirrors at
Here are some commands that work at the Lisa command prompt (!)
LOAD foo.... load tokenized source
SAVE foo.... save tokenized source
WRITE foo .... save as text file --- you must issue a separate ctrl-
DCLOSE
command because the program's string text was missing the ctrl-D
Other DOS commands require a ctrl-D prefix
CATALOG etc.
BSAVE object file
BLOAD object file
EXEC
I've found EXEC to not work reliably with ver 2.5D as found on the
"White" disk. Back when I had my own copy of 2.5F it worked fine.
Also I found that the 48K version of 2.5D crashed when entering the
editor unless INTBASIC was loaded first. I don't remember if LISA
contained some "Sweet-16" code or not. I suspect that it did.
So LISA (for DOS) has some disadvantages. It modifies DOS or requires
a properly modified DOS. It may not work with some DOS "clones".
--- Elliot