Amiga
Mike Hughey
>I'm not sure, but I think the money they made from those 'sticks went to the
>development of the Amiga computer (no wonder it acts like a cheap piece of
>plastic B-) )...
Yeah, but you wouldn't be saying that if you were playing Space Harrier on
the Amiga (like I usually am). I don't believe it - despite Sega's usual
policy of releasing inferior versions of their games for non-Sega machines,
they finally came up with a winner for the Amiga (by accident, no doubt).
In my humble opinion, Space Harrier for the Amiga is BETTER than in the
arcades! Admittedly, on some objects, the detail is inferior, and a couple
of monsters were left out, but a couple of others were added, and some detail
on some of the objects is actually superior! Also, the sky is a beautiful
multi-hued color which is simply much more beautiful than in the arcades.
But probably the main thing which makes this game one of the all-time winners
for any machine is - the thing's so blindingly fast! Much faster than the
arcades; this thing's almost as fast as Afterburner! I tried playing Space
Harrier in the arcades recently, and I felt like I was playing in slow motion.
In short, any of you that have Amigas out there and like Sega's 3-D rush-at-you
kind of games, BUY THIS GAME!!!
Mike Hughey (excuse me, I have to go back to playing Space Harrier)
Gregory Joseph Blake
-SNooze
gb...@andrew.cmu.edu
Michael Portuesi
> In my humble opinion, Space Harrier for the Amiga is BETTER than in the
> arcades!
Does anybody know if Sega's versions of "Out-Run" and "Hang-On" for
the Amiga are this good too?
> But probably the main thing which makes this game one of the all-time winners
> for any machine is - the thing's so blindingly fast! Much faster than the
> arcades; this thing's almost as fast as Afterburner!
Is Sega going to do Afterburner on the Amiga?
--
Michael Portuesi / Information Technology Center / Carnegie Mellon University
INET: mp...@andrew.cmu.edu / BITNET: mp1u+@andrew
UUCP: ...harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!mp1u+
"You just don't get off a spaceship and run." --Avon
John Dutka
>Does anybody know if Sega's versions of "Out-Run" and "Hang-On" for
>the Amiga are this good too?
Personally, I think Outrun is much better in the arcades, and it takes so
LONG to load...
+-------------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| John A. Dutka | WSU Unit #3: Length: The Cow (C): |
| Box 2308 | 1 C = the length of an average-sized cow |
| 100 Institute Rd. | = l(c) |
| (508)792-1949 +------+--------------------+----------------------------+
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+--------------------------+--------------------+----------------------------+
| l(c) = Universal Length Constant (length of a cow); h = height, in cows; |
| v(c) = velocity of cow; t(c) = time of cow in air; x = distance, in feet. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Cary Farrier
>the Amiga are this good too?
>
*TERRIBLE*. It looked like an Atart ST port, and it was
*SLOW*.
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| This message does in no way reflect the views or opinions of |
| any organization. In fact, they illustrate just how |
| disorganized things really are. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Scott Thompson
just like the arcade. Pissed me off!
--
--
Scott Thompson (IHP 2A-428), AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, Il. 60566
VOICE: (312)-416-4236 UUCP: ...!att!ihlpa!sft
John Dutka
>Yeah, they trashed OutRun, the Amiga version, it could have been
>just like the arcade. Pissed me off!
That's funny, I've seen it in several Amiga dealers' shops!
+-------------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| John A. Dutka | WSU Unit #2: Velocity: The CowMove (CM): |
| Box 2308 | 1 CM = terminal velocity of cow falling off Alden Hall |
| 100 Institute Rd. | = x/t(c) = h*l(c)/t(c) |
Vince Lee
>In article <cYC5QSy00...@andrew.cmu.edu> mp...@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes:
>>Does anybody know if Sega's versions of "Out-Run" and "Hang-On" for
>>the Amiga are this good too?
>>
> I played Out-Run at the local computer store and it was
> *TERRIBLE*. It looked like an Atart ST port, and it was
> *SLOW*.
I agree. Bleah!...
On the other hand, Super Hang-On for the Amiga is GREAT!!!!! Clearly the
fastest/most exciting driving-type game I've tried. It even works well with
and '020! I've been toying with the idea of building/buying some sort of
steering apparatus just for it.
by the way, if the normal driving looks good, turn on the nitro...
-Vince Lee
-
Sean Casey
>just like the arcade. Pissed me off!
I seriously doubt it. Sega has some really nice scaling blitter chips in
the arcade machines. It's why they can have all kinds of stuff rushing at
you at high speeds.
I imagine eventually they will design microcomputer architectures so hardware
like this can be plugged into the bus. The Amiga is kind of stuck with it's
specialty chips.
In some Amigas, you'll soon be able to replace these with a slightly more
capable version of same, but it's nothing like what stuffing four scaling
blitters would do for it.
I'd love to see Sega's library code for their coin-op games.
Sean
--
*** Sean Casey se...@ms.uky.edu, se...@ukma.bitnet
*** Just another Monkey Boy. {backbone site|rutgers|uunet}!ukma!sean
*** U of K, Lexington Kentucky, USA ..where Christian movies are banned.
*** ``Computer networks should be considerably faster than a slug.'' -Me
Eric_A...@cup.portal.com
In reply to the question of Afterburner:
Yes, there is a version of Afterburner being done in Europe by Jez San, the
guy who wrote Star Glider I and II among other things. If anyone can make a
faithful arcade conversion, he can! I too have played the Amiga version of
Super Hangon, Space Harrier, and Outrun. I liked all but OutRun. Another good
game is Alien Syndrome although the Amiga version has fewer levels...boo hiss.
billkatt
>In article <11...@s.ms.uky.edu>, se...@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes:
>> In article <SFT.89Ap...@ihlpa.ATT.COM> s...@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Scott Thompson) writes:
>>>Yeah, they trashed OutRun, the Amiga version, it could have been
>>>just like the arcade. Pissed me off!
>>
>> I seriously doubt it. Sega has some really nice scaling blitter chips in
>> the arcade machines. It's why they can have all kinds of stuff rushing at
>> you at high speeds.
>
>Amiga version of Space Harrier is at least as good as the arcade version
>and Space Harrier requires the same sort of graphics manipulation as Outrun
>except more of it. It's just that the people who wrote Outrun were either
>lazy, incompetent or (being charitable) short of time/money. Nobody has come
>close to pushing the Amiga to its limits yet.
Nonsense. OutRun pushes one or two 16Mhz 68000s and special blitter chips
to their max, not to mention doesn't have to run a multitasking operating
system. No machine running one 8Mhz 68000, with a simple blitter and a
multitasking operating system is going to be able to match the arcade version,
not even the Amiga.
-Steve Bollinger
rwal...@vax1.tcd.ie
>>Yeah, they trashed OutRun, the Amiga version, it could have been
>>just like the arcade. Pissed me off!
>
> I seriously doubt it. Sega has some really nice scaling blitter chips in
> the arcade machines. It's why they can have all kinds of stuff rushing at
> you at high speeds.
Nonsense. The Amiga is easily capable of doing arcade-perfect Outrun. The
Amiga version of Space Harrier is at least as good as the arcade version
and Space Harrier requires the same sort of graphics manipulation as Outrun
except more of it. It's just that the people who wrote Outrun were either
lazy, incompetent or (being charitable) short of time/money. Nobody has come
close to pushing the Amiga to its limits yet.
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem"
Russell Wallace, Trinity College, Dublin
rwal...@vax1.tcd.ie
The Daily News
From: simon@cheshire (Thor Simon)
Path: cheshire!simon
And yet, as another poster said, Space Harrier is if anything BETTER than the
arcade, on this same little Amiga... But the REAL problems with OutRun come
from its being ported over from the ST. This means no real blitter support
AT ALL, and all the ST's stupid graphics limitations...
Sean Casey
>>>Yeah, they trashed OutRun, the Amiga version, it could have been
>>>just like the arcade. Pissed me off!
>> I seriously doubt it. Sega has some really nice scaling blitter chips in
>> the arcade machines. It's why they can have all kinds of stuff rushing at
>> you at high speeds.
>Nonsense. The Amiga is easily capable of doing arcade-perfect Outrun.
Sigh. I wish people would actually read my stuff before they reply.
The Sega coin-ops are like an Amiga cubed. They have far better
hardware than the Amiga does. The scaling blitters are what make the
blowaway high speed 3D graphics possible. Yes, the Amiga can store
bitmaps and yes it can blit them to the screen really fast, but nowhere
near as fast as the Sega hardware can. The Amiga doesn't even have the
bus bandwidth to keep up with the Sega games, much less the hardware!
That's why I said it would be nice to have a computer designed
specifically for the possibility of plugging various arcane devices
like this into the bus.
Sean
--
*** Sean Casey se...@ms.uky.edu, se...@ukma.bitnet
*** What, me worry? {backbone|rutgers|uunet}!ukma!sean
*** ``A computer network should be considerably faster than a slug.'' -Me
News manager
> In article <39...@vax1.tcd.ie> rwal...@vax1.tcd.ie writes:
>>In article <11...@s.ms.uky.edu>, se...@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes:
>>> In article <SFT.89Ap...@ihlpa.ATT.COM> s...@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Scott Thompson) writes:
>>Nonsense. The Amiga is easily capable of doing arcade-perfect Outrun. The
>>Amiga version of Space Harrier is at least as good as the arcade version
>>and Space Harrier requires the same sort of graphics manipulation as Outrun
>>except more of it. It's just that the people who wrote Outrun were either
>>lazy, incompetent or (being charitable) short of time/money. Nobody has come
>>close to pushing the Amiga to its limits yet.
> to their max, not to mention doesn't have to run a multitasking operating
> system. No machine running one 8Mhz 68000, with a simple blitter and a
> multitasking operating system is going to be able to match the arcade version,
> not even the Amiga.
Nonsense, why run the OS is one is playing an Arcade game. Most
games to ditch the OS as soon as they can. I really think it depends
on the game as to weather this is acceptable or not. Clearly text
adventures can run conncurrently with the OS. But, anyway.
Don't forget that the Amiga bus is running at 14Mhz, and there
there is more than blitters in that box.
Lastly in this group someone did mention that they have seen
Space Harrier on the Amy and that he/she thought it was better and
faster than the arcade version. Have you seen it on the Amiga? Do
you concur?
Ross
.
Chuck McManis
>Nonsense. OutRun pushes one or two 16Mhz 68000s and special blitter chips
>to their max, not to mention doesn't have to run a multitasking operating
>system. No machine running one 8Mhz 68000, with a simple blitter and a
>multitasking operating system is going to be able to match the arcade version,
>not even the Amiga.
>-Steve Bollinger
This presupposes that the Amiga has a "simple" blitter, which in fact is not
the case, nor does it acknowledge the contribution of the Copper to the
equation which makes some operations that would be difficult on a blitter
fairly easy. For one, you needn't "blit" the car onto the scenery you can
just display it there by having the copper switch the point at which memory
is displayed, on the line where the car appears. Or you can use all the
8 sprites as a 64 X n X 16 color bitmap to represent the car, while still
using them in other places above and below the car.
I think the only statement one could reasonably be accurate in making
would be "Given the same programmer, the Amiga could not do what a
dual 16Mhz 68000 with blitters graphic system can do." However, the
key is _same programmer_ which is so rarely the case.
The statement made earlier about no one having pushed the Amiga to it's
limits is correct.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcm...@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
"A most excellent barbarian ... Genghis Kahn!"
rwal...@vax1.tcd.ie
> In article <39...@vax1.tcd.ie> rwal...@vax1.tcd.ie writes:
>>In article <11...@s.ms.uky.edu>, se...@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes:
>>> I seriously doubt it. Sega has some really nice scaling blitter chips in
>>> the arcade machines. It's why they can have all kinds of stuff rushing at
>>> you at high speeds.
>
>>Nonsense. The Amiga is easily capable of doing arcade-perfect Outrun.
>
> Sigh. I wish people would actually read my stuff before they reply.
>
> The Sega coin-ops are like an Amiga cubed. They have far better
> hardware than the Amiga does. The scaling blitters are what make the
> blowaway high speed 3D graphics possible. Yes, the Amiga can store
> bitmaps and yes it can blit them to the screen really fast, but nowhere
> near as fast as the Sega hardware can. The Amiga doesn't even have the
> bus bandwidth to keep up with the Sega games, much less the hardware!
A Sega arcade machine pushed to its limits could probably outperform an Amiga
pushed to its limits (even without the copper and sprites), though of course
if you had a 68020 running in 32-bit RAM at the same time as the blitter was
working it would be a different story ... this would still cost less than a
Sega. My point is that both systems are capable of far more than they've ever
been used for. It's like back on the Commodore 64 ... there was an article
in a magazine that claimed a game called Beach-Head proved that "the aging
64 has now been pushed to its absolute limits" (Commodore User, can't remember
the issue). Now there are games on the 64 that blow away anything dreamed of
in those days. The Amiga has already done games (Roadwars, Interceptor, Space
Harrier) that compare well with the arcade Out Run, and the machine is a lot
younger and has a lot less of its potential tapped than the 64 was when that
statement was made about it. And the Amiga has the advantage because
thousands of programmers have access to the machine for many years so the
pool of programming talent is far greater.
Wayne Knapp
>
> A Sega arcade machine pushed to its limits could probably outperform an Amiga
> pushed to its limits (even without the copper and sprites), though of course
> if you had a 68020 running in 32-bit RAM at the same time as the blitter was
> working it would be a different story ... this would still cost less than a
> Sega. My point is that both systems are capable of far more than they've ever
> been used for.
I take it you never done any of the kind of programming that you are
talking about, because you are 100% out to lunch. You see if the way
the Amiga is designed you can't use 68020 whatever to enhance the blitter
performance for by even 1%. Besides there are a great many things that
can't be done with just the blitter. In fact if the 68020 is making the
graphics, there is most likely little that can be done with the blitter.
(The above all relate to high resolution graphics on the amiga and doesn't
apply to 4 color low resolution graphics)
The problem is the CHIP/Fast RAM partitions in the Amiga. The blitter
can't use fast RAM, and the 68020 can't use chip RAM very quickly if
the blitter is running. The only way around this problem is to run in
low res. 4 color mode, then things work smoothly. However 4 color low
res. is hardly pushing the limits.
Maybe an Amiga 3000 might look like this:
-------------- ******************
| Custom |--|--------| * * |------|
| Chips | | Master |---* FAST 32bit RAM *----|Slave |--|.....|
-------------- | MMU | * * | MMU | | CPU |
---------- ****************** |------| |.....|
* Only one big pool of memory
* Custom Chips or CPU only hog a page at a time, limiting CYCLE STEALING
* No more out of chip ram problems
* Opens the door to many great improvements:
- .8 ucron CMOS blazing fast Custom Chips
- faster, wider RAM
- faster CPU's
- one could be changed without the other.
Anyway I think a lot of people are pushing the limits of the Amiga, and
basic redesign could really help.
Wayne Knapp