I could say to some...
Timothy Rue
But that would be redundant.
Why am I here?
Because I'm pissed off at the deception of the computer industry and the
effect this dishonesty has had on me personally physically and financially.
Imagine that I actually thought I'd productively do such with computers
that I'd cause additional sales of hardware and software to happen.
Instead I've been given alot of dishonest crap by those who apparently are
busy fucking themselves.
But there is more, I've been presenting solution directions.
Only here again are those busy fucking themselves.
Complain about no software - but don't do a fucking thing to help evolve
an public available auto-coding environment. Ah, the programming expertise
of the Amiga community at it's best. Falling short of accomplishing
anything. Instead there have been all these back door and closed rooms of
deception.
Complain about Piracy and the need to market - But don't do a fucking
thing to help change the model and methodology so that such can happen.
Instead attack anyone suggesting such a direction, fuck yourself under the
guise of "community of nameless faceless user sacrifices for the good of
who's pocket?".
And then there is the hardware modularity direction, in the full scope of
the solution directions I've been giving. In the spirit of fucking
yourself, we gonna have the hypocracy of digital convergence so that the
screw job can penatrate deeper.
To the pathetically dishonest, I really wish I could say to you "Go Fuck
Yourself" But instead, Bravo, you're already doing a good job.
So what is the worse to expect? Easy, anyone can expect someone to come
along, Probably Jim Collas, and do most everything right, except what
counts most. Giving genuine credit where it is really due. And this
dishonest seed will manifest itself and grow to continue the screw job,
but far deeper felt.
In other words, it's gonna get worse before it gets better. But you are
gonna mistakenly think it's getting better until the worse is staring you
in the face and you'll have no where to turn because in your blindness,
you'll not see where to turn. No different than now, except it'll be to
late for you to excape.
---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
*~ ~ ~ Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue What's *DONE* in all we do? *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:tim...@mindspring.com >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ ^<--------<----9----<--------<
Search email/name @ http://www.dejanews.com for other puzzle parts/posts.
Graham A MacDonald
news:2634.884T252T4...@earthlink.net...
> "Go fuck yourself!"
>
> But that would be redundant.
>
> Why am I here?
>
> Because I'm pissed off at the deception of the computer industry and the
> effect this dishonesty has had on me personally physically and
financially.
>
> Imagine that I actually thought I'd productively do such with computers
> that I'd cause additional sales of hardware and software to happen.
>
> Instead I've been given alot of dishonest crap by those who apparently are
> busy fucking themselves.
>
> But there is more, I've been presenting solution directions.
>
> Only here again are those busy fucking themselves.
>
> Complain about no software - but don't do a fucking thing to help evolve
> an public available auto-coding environment. Ah, the programming expertise
> of the Amiga community at it's best. Falling short of accomplishing
> anything. Instead there have been all these back door and closed rooms of
> deception.
Okay, if you're /so/ pissed off with all that's going on, why don't you
start designing and building a so-called 'auto-coding environment'. Do you
think it's childsplay? Let me tell you something. It's probably decades
away. The leaps needed in AI, language interpretation, visualisation, etc,
are extermely large. But please, and I mean this in all seriousness, prove
me wrong. I would love it if you would build such a system.
Somehow, I don't think you will.... Maybe you should devote some of the
time you spend flaming or commenting to others to coming up with the system.
I think such a system would probably be up there with the invention of the
internet, car, etc, so you really would make quite a name for yourself.
Tempted?
--
Graham A MacDonald
gra...@34southpark.freeserve.co.uk
macd...@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Bert Dorhout
Timothy Rue wrote:
> Why am I here?
Are you here to warn us what can happen to people?
Are you here to educate people?
Are you here to vent frustration?
Are you here to shout at the industry (if so, why here?)?
Do you have the idea there are enough people that you can
teach/tell something?
Do you have enough pos. feedback to continue to try?
Do you have enough hope (for people seeing) to continue to try?
Do you have enough drive to keep on trying (your word: persist)
to make people see even if it seems it is a long way to go?
If so, why be angry at people who don't see it? (Apart from
that it's completely clear that people sometimes are very rude
to you).
Don't you think it's useless or unpaying (no pun intended, not
about money either, more like unsatisfying) to keep on trying?
Don't you think it's 'reasonable' for those who won't see what
you see (don't want to or just have a different opinion or KNOW
different) to feel bored or bothered by your persistence?
Do you still think that the way you are trying to tell us things
now is the best way?
If you kept on telling people in generally the same thing for
years, and most (by far?) feedback is negative, and/or people
don't seem to understand or see what you want them to, isn't
that saying that it's time for another method to make these
people see? Or that you are talking to the wrong people in the
first place?
Kind regards,
Bert
Brian99Cobra
> Timothy Rue wrote:
>
> > Why am I here?
I'd guess that someone didn't use birth control when they should have.
Timothy Rue
Taking things out of context is intentionally dishonest. But hey, most
are.
Timothy Rue
SL> Not an unreasonable request, you would think. AFAIK the 'auto
SL> coding' fantasy is simply a psychological crutch to hide the grim
SL> truth that Tim can't code. Nothing to be ashamed of, of course.
SL> However, he plays himself as the big hotshot saviour of us poor
SL> deluded little computer-slaves and his pig-headed brain has long
SL> since renounced all input from the outside world.
It really is amazing how people make things up to hide their ignorance.
For example, I don't support the saviour leading back to the spoiled brat
devil.
So what is your comprehension problem here? Hiding your ignorance?
Auto-coding must seem to be a threat to you.
SL> I think Tim suffers from Usenet addiction. If he actually
SL> learned to stop himself posting every vague thought that crossed
SL> his mind and used the no doubt MASSIVE amount of time this would
SL> leave him...
Really, Maybe, but consumer entrapment abuse is a certainty of the
industrys' addiction.
SL> Oh, but that would be too easy ;)
SL> To create an auto-coding environment, you must run the VIC Arexx
SL> script (I know that to the untrained eye it does nothing but
SL> please humour me) and connect the joystick port of the machine to
SL> a pair of probes suspended in a strong brownian motion inducer
SL> (say, a nice hot cup of tea). In accordance with the laws of
SL> improbability an auto-coding environment will appear on your
SL> hard-disk. The first function of this program is to scan the
SL> brainwaves of the user (via the RF port) to determine exactly
SL> what he/she requires in the way of software. The resulting
SL> brainwave matrix is decoded by the VIC and the code it produces
SL> becomes self-aware a couple of nano-seconds before it executes
SL> itself. The user is no longer required at this point and melts
SL> in a messy fashion, rather like the Nazis did at the end of
SL> 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'.
SL> I hope this clears up this often misunderstood topic :)
Yep, it verifies that you make things up to dismiss what you do not
understand.
SL> L8R
SL> stu
Stuart Lambert
Not an unreasonable request, you would think. AFAIK the 'auto
coding' fantasy is simply a psychological crutch to hide the grim
truth that Tim can't code. Nothing to be ashamed of, of course.
However, he plays himself as the big hotshot saviour of us poor
deluded little computer-slaves and his pig-headed brain has long since
renounced all input from the outside world.
>Somehow, I don't think you will.... Maybe you should devote some of the
>time you spend flaming or commenting to others to coming up with the system.
>I think such a system would probably be up there with the invention of the
>internet, car, etc, so you really would make quite a name for yourself.
>Tempted?
>
I think Tim suffers from Usenet addiction. If he actually learned to
stop himself posting every vague thought that crossed his mind and
used the no doubt MASSIVE amount of time this would leave him...
Oh, but that would be too easy ;)
To create an auto-coding environment, you must run the VIC Arexx
script (I know that to the untrained eye it does nothing but please
humour me) and connect the joystick port of the machine to a pair of
probes suspended in a strong brownian motion inducer (say, a nice hot
cup of tea). In accordance with the laws of improbability an
auto-coding environment will appear on your hard-disk. The first
function of this program is to scan the brainwaves of the user (via
the RF port) to determine exactly what he/she requires in the way of
software. The resulting brainwave matrix is decoded by the VIC and
the code it produces becomes self-aware a couple of nano-seconds
before it executes itself. The user is no longer required at this
point and melts in a messy fashion, rather like the Nazis did at the
end of 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'.
I hope this clears up this often misunderstood topic :)
L8R
stu
Stuart Lambert
wrote:
>On 03-Aug-99 19:16:45 Stuart Lambert <stu@/PORKLUNCHEONMEAT/roshambo.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> SL> Not an unreasonable request, you would think. AFAIK the 'auto
> SL> coding' fantasy is simply a psychological crutch to hide the grim
> SL> truth that Tim can't code. Nothing to be ashamed of, of course.
> SL> However, he plays himself as the big hotshot saviour of us poor
> SL> deluded little computer-slaves and his pig-headed brain has long
> SL> since renounced all input from the outside world.
>
>
>It really is amazing how people make things up to hide their ignorance.
Just an observation oh humourless one.
>
>For example, I don't support the saviour leading back to the spoiled brat
>devil.
You act like both simultaneously.
>
>So what is your comprehension problem here? Hiding your ignorance?
>
>Auto-coding must seem to be a threat to you.
4GLs suck. Nothing codes better than a human mind and there are 6
billion of them out there to train. You could train yours if you had
the knowledge and the will. Quit molesting us with this sci-fi
bollox.
>
>
> SL> I think Tim suffers from Usenet addiction. If he actually
> SL> learned to stop himself posting every vague thought that crossed
> SL> his mind and used the no doubt MASSIVE amount of time this would
> SL> leave him...
>
>Really, Maybe, but consumer entrapment abuse is a certainty of the
>industrys' addiction.
So? That's an all encompassing problem with capitalism, not just the
computer industry. Greed is far older than software. It is easier to
see in the computer industry because it grew so large in so little
time.
>
> SL> Oh, but that would be too easy ;)
>
> SL> To create an auto-coding environment, you must run the VIC Arexx
> SL> script (I know that to the untrained eye it does nothing but
> SL> please humour me) and connect the joystick port of the machine to
> SL> a pair of probes suspended in a strong brownian motion inducer
> SL> (say, a nice hot cup of tea). In accordance with the laws of
> SL> improbability an auto-coding environment will appear on your
> SL> hard-disk. The first function of this program is to scan the
> SL> brainwaves of the user (via the RF port) to determine exactly
> SL> what he/she requires in the way of software. The resulting
> SL> brainwave matrix is decoded by the VIC and the code it produces
> SL> becomes self-aware a couple of nano-seconds before it executes
> SL> itself. The user is no longer required at this point and melts
> SL> in a messy fashion, rather like the Nazis did at the end of
> SL> 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'.
>
> SL> I hope this clears up this often misunderstood topic :)
>
>Yep, it verifies that you make things up to dismiss what you do not
>understand.
Lost on this one, is humour.
It is easy to coin phrases like 'warp-speed' or 'time-machine' but it
is another thing altogether to actually invent such a beast. You
think you can invent a device that will produce code on the vaguest
user description of its inputs and outputs?
SNAKE OIL! SNAKE OIL! ONE DOSE A DAY CURES ALL THAT AILS YA!
>
>
> SL> L8R
>
> SL> stu
>
What he said.
Graham A MacDonald
reply to my serious response to your message, instead of resorting to
flaming someone? C'mon, try it - You just might like it. What's the
matter, too sensible for you? =o)
Timothy Rue
SL> On 03 Aug 99 17:14:29 -0500, "Timothy Rue"
SL> <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>On 03-Aug-99 19:16:45 Stuart Lambert
>><stu@/PORKLUNCHEONMEAT/roshambo.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> SL> Not an unreasonable request, you would think. AFAIK the 'auto
>> SL> coding' fantasy is simply a psychological crutch to hide the
>> grim SL> truth that Tim can't code. Nothing to be ashamed of, of
>> course. SL> However, he plays himself as the big hotshot saviour of
>> us poor SL> deluded little computer-slaves and his pig-headed brain
>> has long SL> since renounced all input from the outside world.
>>
>>
>>It really is amazing how people make things up to hide their
>>ignorance.
SL> Just an observation oh humourless one.
Yes, master baiter.
>>
>>For example, I don't support the saviour leading back to the spoiled
>>brat devil.
SL> You act like both simultaneously.
Give me give me give me. A genuine honest and fair opportunity to
earn and income for doing the things I been doin! Give me give me.
>>
>>So what is your comprehension problem here? Hiding your ignorance?
>>
>>Auto-coding must seem to be a threat to you.
SL> 4GLs suck. Nothing codes better than a human mind and there are
SL> 6 billion of them out there to train. You could train yours if
SL> you had the knowledge and the will. Quit molesting us with this
SL> sci-fi bollox.
Gawd you are stupid. Hey that's another human talent of the mind!
Stupidty!
So tell me, where in the hell did you read 4GL? Or's that just something
your mind inserted? Don't feel bad, I've seen other minds do this too.
Maybe the first time it happend was when someone read into my
communication something about "memory protection" when all I really
communicated was the need to have crash protection. Geee, I suppose the
mind inserts all kinds of garbage that's not really there if you let it.
I took art class fer a # o years. 1 of dem tings I learned was 2 c
what is der and knot what I tink is der.
Could maybe you learn the same thing too? De dif between waht is real and
de sci-fi you imagine.
Actually the VIC is not a 4GL or 5GL or 6 six geee L. It aint ebin a one,
two or three Geeeeee eL.
So Geee ell what it be den?
It be d gear and bearing man, dat maketh de GLs possible.
Gee Mr. L. Yep yep, i do 2 tink so, duh.
Not only dat, but u b ebin use dee VIC with be human language, like now.
Ahhh, so how you be train? Doith youith knowith howith toith usith a be
dictionary?
Dis "symbol" equal to dis "bunch o stufff dat say alot more"!! He He.
>> SL> I think Tim suffers from Usenet addiction. If he actually
>> SL> learned to stop himself posting every vague thought that
>> crossed SL> his mind and used the no doubt MASSIVE amount of time
>> this would SL> leave him...
>>
>>Really, Maybe, but consumer entrapment abuse is a certainty of the
>>industrys' addiction.
SL> So? That's an all encompassing problem with capitalism, not just
SL> the computer industry. Greed is far older than software. It is
SL> easier to see in the computer industry because it grew so large
SL> in so little time.
Smile, you're on the dumb user team son. Pay attention and get de sand out
of yer shoes. Ifn' we be got a goal to IP Greed, den we be shoot fer IP
greed goal. Yellow yellow yellow, all there be is yellow. Yellow Goal,
don't flush, peeee u, don't it stink? Don't eat the yellow sand but maybe
change der litter box!
Yep yep, lets' change dees rules. You can't say no but if you use,
specially to make some dough, den pay fair royality respect. Just like
Eltons art of sound? Know Better, be honest and fair.
>>
>> SL> Oh, but that would be too easy ;)
>>
>> SL> To create an auto-coding environment, you must run the VIC
>> Arexx SL> script (I know that to the untrained eye it does nothing
>> but SL> please humour me) and connect the joystick port of the
>> machine to SL> a pair of probes suspended in a strong brownian
>> motion inducer SL> (say, a nice hot cup of tea). In accordance
>> with the laws of SL> improbability an auto-coding environment will
>> appear on your SL> hard-disk. The first function of this program
>> is to scan the SL> brainwaves of the user (via the RF port) to
>> determine exactly SL> what he/she requires in the way of software.
>> The resulting SL> brainwave matrix is decoded by the VIC and the
>> code it produces SL> becomes self-aware a couple of nano-seconds
>> before it executes SL> itself. The user is no longer required at
>> this point and melts SL> in a messy fashion, rather like the Nazis
>> did at the end of SL> 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'.
>>
>> SL> I hope this clears up this often misunderstood topic :)
>>
>>Yep, it verifies that you make things up to dismiss what you do not
>>understand.
SL> Lost on this one, is humour.
No, it's a 4GL protected memory.
SL> It is easy to coin phrases like 'warp-speed' or 'time-machine'
SL> but it is another thing altogether to actually invent such a
SL> beast. You think you can invent a device that will produce code
SL> on the vaguest user description of its inputs and outputs?
SL> SNAKE OIL! SNAKE OIL! ONE DOSE A DAY CURES ALL THAT AILS YA!
No but if you hum a few bars over and over, den you can automate it.
And ifn you can automate what you do in repetition, including inserting
things not there, you can go further.
To get to 'c' from 'a', where you cannot see 'c', your rideover to 'b' so
to see 'c', see?
Joe went to store to buy CC rider tape.
Nancy went to store to buy CC rider CD.
Joe went to store to return CC rider tape.
Do we sea a pattern here?
____ went to store to ______ CC rider _____.
Hmmmm, geee, suppose we be can do automation layering?
Hmmm, maybe start with human language, one step at a time to go deeper
into layers and back out and then maybe in a bit and out to translate dis
into:
Happey Birthday Jack, Hope you like the CC rider CD we bought you.
So....
Jack went to store to return CC rider CD.
Because He don't have a CD player.
>>
>>
>> SL> L8R
>>
>> SL> stu
>>
SL> What he said.
Noit what you tink he said?
Mike Coppins
Brian99Cobra wrote in message <37A73581...@nowhere.net>...
>
>> Timothy Rue wrote:
>>
>> > Why am I here?
>
>I'd guess that someone didn't use birth control when they should have.
OW! That was a tad low wasn't it?
Timothy Rue
GAM> Okay, if you're /so/ pissed off with all that's going on, why
GAM> don't you start designing and building a so-called 'auto-coding
GAM> environment'. Do you think it's childsplay? Let me tell you
GAM> something. It's probably decades away. The leaps needed in AI,
GAM> language interpretation, visualisation, etc, are extermely
GAM> large. But please, and I mean this in all seriousness, prove me
GAM> wrong. I would love it if you would build such a system.
http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/KNMVIC.html
GAM> Somehow, I don't think you will.... Maybe you should devote
GAM> some of the time you spend flaming or commenting to others to
GAM> coming up with the system. I think such a system would probably
GAM> be up there with the invention of the internet, car, etc, so you
GAM> really would make quite a name for yourself. Tempted?
Maybe you should spend some time reading instead of being brain washed by
band wagon jumper oners.
Lets' play a game. How many new abstractions can you think of that the
field of Artificial Intelligence has brought us?
Artificial Intelligence - nothing is naturally that stupid.
Tell me again how AI and auto-coding are related in Artificial Intellegent
ways. But let's get the vocabulary down first.
Maybe what I should do is prove the VIC can be stupid too, just like you?
Timothy Rue
GAM> Aww! How come you replied to him and not me? I feel left out!
GAM> Why not reply to my serious response to your message, instead of
GAM> resorting to flaming someone? C'mon, try it - You just might
GAM> like it. What's the matter, too sensible for you? =o)
Hmmmm, I suppose it is because I didn't make the 36th word of the message
before that one, start with the letter 8 bit.
It needed to be this in order for the fourth system in the internet
network to my right, with a short left about a mile, to know that it
needed to send a signal to one of the earthlink satellites informing the
space gerbal to wait an extra minute before eating.
You see, it's important for the space gerbal to wait an extra minute and a
half before eating so that the satellite will tip just the right way to
catch signal bounce from the transdeducer located at 34 south park in the
UK. Otherwise owl, the earthlink Outer World Link, will not know to turn
on the switch that allows your message onto the earthlink network so that
I might see it.
Actually That's not right but it's more complicated when I tell you about
the lion, Link In On Network, methodology of threatening the owl to scare
the gerbal to shit earlier than I P.
Hmmm, come to think of it, I think the 36th word was 7 bit, so that means
your message was late but answered already here but to be there. Something
about thors horn of plenty, last in first out.
Timothy Rue
BD> Timothy Rue wrote:
>> Why am I here?
BD> Are you here to warn us what can happen to people?
BD> Are you here to educate people?
BD> Are you here to vent frustration?
BD> Are you here to shout at the industry (if so, why here?)?
BD> Do you have the idea there are enough people that you can
BD> teach/tell something?
BD> Do you have enough pos. feedback to continue to try?
BD> Do you have enough hope (for people seeing) to continue to try?
BD> Do you have enough drive to keep on trying (your word: persist)
BD> to make people see even if it seems it is a long way to go?
BD> If so, why be angry at people who don't see it? (Apart from
BD> that it's completely clear that people sometimes are very rude
BD> to you).
BD> Don't you think it's useless or unpaying (no pun intended, not
BD> about money either, more like unsatisfying) to keep on trying?
BD> Don't you think it's 'reasonable' for those who won't see what
BD> you see (don't want to or just have a different opinion or KNOW
BD> different) to feel bored or bothered by your persistence?
BD> Do you still think that the way you are trying to tell us things
BD> now is the best way?
BD> If you kept on telling people in generally the same thing for
BD> years, and most (by far?) feedback is negative, and/or people
BD> don't seem to understand or see what you want them to, isn't
BD> that saying that it's time for another method to make these
BD> people see? Or that you are talking to the wrong people in the
BD> first place?
BD> Kind regards,
BD> Bert
In other words you are doing that same thing many others are trying to do
in telling me to give up and that I'm a dumb end user loser, Just like
you?
But I'm not. Look around at the changes, look beyond even this ng and
platform. Don't you know what it is you are seeing?
I believe the idea you are supporting is one of arrogance in assumption.
That is that there are those who arrogantly assume they own any and all
things generated by the one they treat like shit.
What do I really need? Do I need all the above or is that just the
illusion you want to wrongly dump on me so to mislead?
I think all I really need is simply being honest and right. And that I am.
On the other hand there does seem to be those who seem to appear out of
nowhere with nothing but a position of saying no you cannot have, and
everyone bows down in worship of them. But hey it don't pay my bills!
So let me give you a piece of advice. Pull your head out of your ass, and
re-read the full message I posted. Instead of the little piece of it you
made into some kind of illusional mountain.
Stuart Lambert
wrote:
>On 04-Aug-99 03:07:32 Stuart Lambert <stu@/PORKLUNCHEONMEAT/roshambo.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> SL> On 03 Aug 99 17:14:29 -0500, "Timothy Rue"
> SL> <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>On 03-Aug-99 19:16:45 Stuart Lambert
>>><stu@/PORKLUNCHEONMEAT/roshambo.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> SL> Not an unreasonable request, you would think. AFAIK the 'auto
>>> SL> coding' fantasy is simply a psychological crutch to hide the
>>> grim SL> truth that Tim can't code. Nothing to be ashamed of, of
>>> course. SL> However, he plays himself as the big hotshot saviour of
>>> us poor SL> deluded little computer-slaves and his pig-headed brain
>>> has long SL> since renounced all input from the outside world.
>>>
>>>
>>>It really is amazing how people make things up to hide their
>>>ignorance.
>
> SL> Just an observation oh humourless one.
>
>Yes, master baiter.
Aye! Aye! Seamen Stanes.
>
>>>
>>>For example, I don't support the saviour leading back to the spoiled
>>>brat devil.
>
> SL> You act like both simultaneously.
>
>Give me give me give me. A genuine honest and fair opportunity to
>earn and income for doing the things I been doin! Give me give me.
OK, I'd mail you 1p for your 'efforts' , but postage from here to
Atlanta isn't worth it.
>
>>>
>>>So what is your comprehension problem here? Hiding your ignorance?
>>>
>>>Auto-coding must seem to be a threat to you.
>
> SL> 4GLs suck. Nothing codes better than a human mind and there are
> SL> 6 billion of them out there to train. You could train yours if
> SL> you had the knowledge and the will. Quit molesting us with this
> SL> sci-fi bollox.
>
>Gawd you are stupid. Hey that's another human talent of the mind!
>Stupidty!
?!?
>
>So tell me, where in the hell did you read 4GL? Or's that just something
>your mind inserted? Don't feel bad, I've seen other minds do this too.
>Maybe the first time it happend was when someone read into my
>communication something about "memory protection" when all I really
>communicated was the need to have crash protection. Geee, I suppose the
>mind inserts all kinds of garbage that's not really there if you let it.
I didn't read it. I read 'auto-coding' and thought 'horrid bloaty
mess' 'cos that's what 4GLs are. Notoriously inefficient. Take a
mind, any mind, and see the greatest known code optimiser known to
man. Don't devolve more to the machine 'cos it just ain't smart
enough. Come back when we have fully functioning neural-nets and
'auto-coding' may be a possibility but by then these machines will
want there own 'Income Opportunity'. :)
>
>I took art class fer a # o years. 1 of dem tings I learned was 2 c
>what is der and knot what I tink is der.
I took english :)
>
>Could maybe you learn the same thing too? De dif between waht is real and
>de sci-fi you imagine.
Lay off the Gibson, dude. (William, not Debbie)
>
>Actually the VIC is not a 4GL or 5GL or 6 six geee L. It aint ebin a one,
>two or three Geeeeee eL.
I think Arexx qualifies as a 3GL. Since the code you wrote with it
doesn't do anything, I think it can be safely ignored.
>
>So Geee ell what it be den?
>
>It be d gear and bearing man, dat maketh de GLs possible.
>
>Gee Mr. L. Yep yep, i do 2 tink so, duh.
He he he
>
>Not only dat, but u b ebin use dee VIC with be human language, like now.
Ah, so you want us to pay you for something we already own? Sounds
like Columbus 'discovering' America.
>
>Ahhh, so how you be train? Doith youith knowith howith toith usith a be
>dictionary?
Oh, the irony.
>
>Dis "symbol" equal to dis "bunch o stufff dat say alot more"!! He He.
>
>>> SL> I think Tim suffers from Usenet addiction. If he actually
>>> SL> learned to stop himself posting every vague thought that
>>> crossed SL> his mind and used the no doubt MASSIVE amount of time
>>> this would SL> leave him...
>>>
>>>Really, Maybe, but consumer entrapment abuse is a certainty of the
>>>industrys' addiction.
>
> SL> So? That's an all encompassing problem with capitalism, not just
> SL> the computer industry. Greed is far older than software. It is
> SL> easier to see in the computer industry because it grew so large
> SL> in so little time.
>
>Smile, you're on the dumb user team son. Pay attention and get de sand out
>of yer shoes. Ifn' we be got a goal to IP Greed, den we be shoot fer IP
>greed goal. Yellow yellow yellow, all there be is yellow. Yellow Goal,
>don't flush, peeee u, don't it stink? Don't eat the yellow sand but maybe
>change der litter box!
So write the VIC and make it FREE, I dare you! If you hate the
profiteering bastards then why don't you sink their battle-ship? It
worked for M$ with IE and PGP gave the Feds a big head-ache.
Of course, the truth is that you want the cash as much as Bill does,
but don't want to the play the game that he does. 2 + 2 = 22 :)
>
>Yep yep, lets' change dees rules. You can't say no but if you use,
>specially to make some dough, den pay fair royality respect. Just like
>Eltons art of sound? Know Better, be honest and fair.
>
>>>
>>> SL> Oh, but that would be too easy ;)
>>>
>>> SL> To create an auto-coding environment, you must run the VIC
>>> Arexx SL> script (I know that to the untrained eye it does nothing
>>> but SL> please humour me) and connect the joystick port of the
>>> machine to SL> a pair of probes suspended in a strong brownian
>>> motion inducer SL> (say, a nice hot cup of tea). In accordance
>>> with the laws of SL> improbability an auto-coding environment will
>>> appear on your SL> hard-disk. The first function of this program
>>> is to scan the SL> brainwaves of the user (via the RF port) to
>>> determine exactly SL> what he/she requires in the way of software.
>>> The resulting SL> brainwave matrix is decoded by the VIC and the
>>> code it produces SL> becomes self-aware a couple of nano-seconds
>>> before it executes SL> itself. The user is no longer required at
>>> this point and melts SL> in a messy fashion, rather like the Nazis
>>> did at the end of SL> 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'.
>>>
>>> SL> I hope this clears up this often misunderstood topic :)
>>>
>>>Yep, it verifies that you make things up to dismiss what you do not
>>>understand.
>
> SL> Lost on this one, is humour.
>
>No, it's a 4GL protected memory.
<snigger>
>
> SL> It is easy to coin phrases like 'warp-speed' or 'time-machine'
> SL> but it is another thing altogether to actually invent such a
> SL> beast. You think you can invent a device that will produce code
> SL> on the vaguest user description of its inputs and outputs?
>
> SL> SNAKE OIL! SNAKE OIL! ONE DOSE A DAY CURES ALL THAT AILS YA!
>
>No but if you hum a few bars over and over, den you can automate it.
>And ifn you can automate what you do in repetition, including inserting
>things not there, you can go further.
>
>To get to 'c' from 'a', where you cannot see 'c', your rideover to 'b' so
>to see 'c', see?
>
>Joe went to store to buy CC rider tape.
>
>Nancy went to store to buy CC rider CD.
>
>Joe went to store to return CC rider tape.
>
>
>Do we sea a pattern here?
No, you're mixing your metaphors.
>
>
>____ went to store to ______ CC rider _____.
>
>
>Hmmmm, geee, suppose we be can do automation layering?
>
>Hmmm, maybe start with human language, one step at a time to go deeper
>into layers and back out and then maybe in a bit and out to translate dis
>into:
>
>Happey Birthday Jack, Hope you like the CC rider CD we bought you.
>
>So....
>
>Jack went to store to return CC rider CD.
>
>Because He don't have a CD player.
So, I can't write a 3D shooter with it then? I thought this tool was
the ULTIMATE TOOL? Maybe a penultimate one? You speak not of the VIC
that exists now, but the VIC that will follow?
>
>>>
>>>
>>> SL> L8R
>>>
>>> SL> stu
>>>
>
> SL> What he said.
>
>Noit what you tink he said?
You have a bad case of premature enlightenment, my friend. Lay off
the Double-zero and look again.
L8R
Stu
Timothy Rue
MC> Brian99Cobra wrote in message <37A73581...@nowhere.net>...
>>
>>> Timothy Rue wrote:
>>>
>>> > Why am I here?
>>
>>have.
MC> OW! That was a tad low wasn't it?
Hmmm, would Jesus been born if Mary had.......?
Maybe that was to low? Like in the wrong direction all-to-get-her.
Timothy Rue
GAM> Timothy Rue <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
GAM> news:913.885T2803T8...@earthlink.net...
>> >>> > Why am I here?
>> >>
>> >>I'd guess that someone didn't use birth control when they should
>> >>have.
>>
>> MC> OW! That was a tad low wasn't it?
>>
>> Hmmm, would Jesus been born if Mary had.......?
GAM> Come on! Comparing yourself to Jesus, great as you may (or may
GAM> not) be is just absolutely insane! I'm beginning to believe
GAM> what they say about you..
I didn't, but you just did.
Making up your own illusions about me?
Timothy Rue
to expose of the dishonest industry.
On 04-Aug-99 19:34:31 Graham A MacDonald <gra...@34southpark.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
GAM> Timothy Rue <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
GAM> news:1876.885T2697T5...@earthlink.net...
>> On 03-Aug-99 10:09:34 Graham A MacDonald
GAM> <gra...@34southpark.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> GAM> Okay, if you're /so/ pissed off with all that's going on, why
>> GAM> don't you start designing and building a so-called
>> 'auto-coding GAM> environment'. Do you think it's childsplay?
>> Let me tell you GAM> something. It's probably decades away. The
>> leaps needed in AI, GAM> language interpretation, visualisation,
>> etc, are extermely GAM> large. But please, and I mean this in all
>> seriousness, prove me GAM> wrong. I would love it if you would
>> build such a system.
>>
>> http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/KNMVIC.html
GAM> Right, I tried my best to understand it, so here we go...
GAM> BTW, I think you would have much more success in conveying your
GAM> ideas if you used simpler English. The document above was
GAM> needlessly complicated in it's grammar. Just a wee bit of
GAM> advice...
There is nothing wrong with it.
However, you are apparently out to distort. That's intentionally
dishonest.
So how much are you being paind for doing this? Or did you just get free
beer?
>> Lets' play a game. How many new abstractions can you think of that
>> the field of Artificial Intelligence has brought us?
GAM> It depends what you mean by abstractions. I'm sure it has
GAM> plenty of abstractions in the form of higher-level algorithms
GAM> translated to code, or in mimicing the way our own mind works,
GAM> or that of an animal.
>> Artificial Intelligence - nothing is naturally that stupid.
>>
>> Tell me again how AI and auto-coding are related in Artificial
>> Intellegent ways. But let's get the vocabulary down first.
GAM> From what I gather of 'auto-coding', and this may be a different
GAM> interpretation to your own, is that it involves simply
GAM> instructing a computer what to do. For example, instructing it
GAM> to sift through a pile of several thousand emails, junking all
GAM> those that are clearly junk, producing a short, condensed list
GAM> of anything important, and saving the rest for future use. Now
GAM> clearly AI would first of all be needed to translate these
GAM> instructions into a form the computer can understand simply,
GAM> say, voice then language recognition. It would then need to
GAM> know how to construct such a program, or sequence, and decide
GAM> how to read this list of emails. It would have to be capable of
GAM> understanding the messages within the emails, and how to
GAM> translate them into concise, simple English. (Or even Italian,
GAM> gaelic, whatever.)
I bet anyone here can write out such a paragraph as you just have.
Getting the machine to do it........
You think that AI is needed? Hmmmmmm.....
>> Maybe what I should do is prove the VIC can be stupid too, just
>> like you?
GAM> Now come on, that's no way to make friends, is it?
GAM> After reading the reference, and hearing how you 'aced all
GAM> courses I have taken in computer electronics and programming',
GAM> why don't you prove your immense intelligence by pulling your
GAM> finger out and getting the experience you claim not to have? If
GAM> you did that then I might have some respect for you, otherwise
GAM> I'll just think of you as infantile, dillusioned, insulting and
GAM> foolish.
Is there like a course in abstraction manipulation you took or something?
I did ace the classes I took. But you see, an industry that has it's head
up it's ass and want to continue the software crisis fraud.....
Well it's no wonder you put on the act of ignorance about the mentioned
document.
Only those in the dishonest industry are so incapable of admitting their
understanding of the document.
Hey, that's consistance with incentive of being dishonest.
But I'll tell you what, I already made up the data bases for all
knowledge.
You just have to pay me 30 billion to see. Hows that?
Graham A MacDonald
> On 03-Aug-99 10:09:34 Graham A MacDonald
>
> GAM> Okay, if you're /so/ pissed off with all that's going on, why
> GAM> don't you start designing and building a so-called 'auto-coding
> GAM> environment'. Do you think it's childsplay? Let me tell you
> GAM> something. It's probably decades away. The leaps needed in AI,
> GAM> language interpretation, visualisation, etc, are extermely
> GAM> large. But please, and I mean this in all seriousness, prove me
> GAM> wrong. I would love it if you would build such a system.
>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/KNMVIC.html
Right, I tried my best to understand it, so here we go...
BTW, I think you would have much more success in conveying your ideas if you
used simpler English. The document above was needlessly complicated in it's
grammar. Just a wee bit of advice...
> Lets' play a game. How many new abstractions can you think of that the
> field of Artificial Intelligence has brought us?
It depends what you mean by abstractions. I'm sure it has plenty of
abstractions in the form of higher-level algorithms translated to code, or
in mimicing the way our own mind works, or that of an animal.
> Artificial Intelligence - nothing is naturally that stupid.
>
> Tell me again how AI and auto-coding are related in Artificial Intellegent
> ways. But let's get the vocabulary down first.
From what I gather of 'auto-coding', and this may be a different
interpretation to your own, is that it involves simply instructing a
computer what to do. For example, instructing it to sift through a pile of
several thousand emails, junking all those that are clearly junk, producing
a short, condensed list of anything important, and saving the rest for
future use. Now clearly AI would first of all be needed to translate these
instructions into a form the computer can understand simply, say, voice then
language recognition. It would then need to know how to construct such a
program, or sequence, and decide how to read this list of emails. It would
have to be capable of understanding the messages within the emails, and how
to translate them into concise, simple English. (Or even Italian, gaelic,
whatever.)
> Maybe what I should do is prove the VIC can be stupid too, just like you?
Now come on, that's no way to make friends, is it?
After reading the reference, and hearing how you 'aced all courses I have
taken in computer electronics and programming', why don't you prove your
immense intelligence by pulling your finger out and getting the experience
you claim not to have? If you did that then I might have some respect for
you, otherwise I'll just think of you as infantile, dillusioned, insulting
and foolish.
Graham A MacDonald
> >>> > Why am I here?
> >>
> >>I'd guess that someone didn't use birth control when they should
> >>have.
>
> MC> OW! That was a tad low wasn't it?
>
> Hmmm, would Jesus been born if Mary had.......?
Come on! Comparing yourself to Jesus, great as you may (or may not) be is
just absolutely insane! I'm beginning to believe what they say about you..
Mike Coppins
Timothy Rue wrote in message
<913.885T2803T8...@earthlink.net>...
>On 04-Aug-99 04:52:11 Mike Coppins
<as...@usenet.for.my.email.address.and.I.might.give.it.to.you.com> wrote:
> MC> Brian99Cobra wrote in message <37A73581...@nowhere.net>...
>>>
>>>> Timothy Rue wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'd guess that someone didn't use birth control when they should
>>>have.
>
> MC> OW! That was a tad low wasn't it?
>
>Hmmm, would Jesus been born if Mary had.......?
A: That doesn't go under the category of 'low', that goes under the category
of bloody rude.
B: If Mary had what?
>Maybe that was to low? Like in the wrong direction all-to-get-her.
That makes about as much sense as your average rant... ie. little or no...
Mike Coppins
Timothy Rue wrote in message
>On 04-Aug-99 19:37:25 Graham A MacDonald
<gra...@34southpark.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> GAM> Timothy Rue <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> GAM> news:913.885T2803T8...@earthlink.net...
>>> >>> > Why am I here?
>>> >>
>>> >>I'd guess that someone didn't use birth control when they should
>>> >>have.
>>>
>>> MC> OW! That was a tad low wasn't it?
>>>
>>> Hmmm, would Jesus been born if Mary had.......?
>
> GAM> not) be is just absolutely insane! I'm beginning to believe
> GAM> what they say about you..
>
>I didn't, but you just did.
>
>Making up your own illusions about me?
It was a mild association between the Son of God and yourself Tim that you
used.
Timothy Rue
MC> Timothy Rue wrote in message
MC> <1101.885T209T12...@earthlink.net>...
>>On 04-Aug-99 19:37:25 Graham A MacDonald
>> GAM> Timothy Rue <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> GAM> news:913.885T2803T8...@earthlink.net...
>>>> >>> > Why am I here?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>I'd guess that someone didn't use birth control when they
>>>> >>should have.
>>>>
>>>> MC> OW! That was a tad low wasn't it?
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm, would Jesus been born if Mary had.......?
>>
>> GAM> Come on! Comparing yourself to Jesus, great as you may (or
>> may GAM> not) be is just absolutely insane! I'm beginning to
>> believe GAM> what they say about you..
>>
>>I didn't, but you just did.
>>
>>Making up your own illusions about me?
MC> It was a mild association between the Son of God and yourself Tim
MC> that you used.
Wrong. I wasn't the one who made that association. All I did was point out
an exception that people believe happened. An exception that contridicts
your own words.
Mike Coppins
Timothy Rue wrote in message
<begin quoted association>
TR>> Hmmm, would Jesus been born if Mary had.......?
<end quoted association>
All you did was point out an exception that people believe happened?
What was the exception? Looked like an example to me, a "related" one at
that... [related in the eyes of Tim]
Dougal Stanton
Timothy Rue wrote in message
>I took art class fer a # o years. 1 of dem tings I learned was 2 c
>what is der and knot what I tink is der.
>
Really? Well, maybe you'd have more luck if you drew what *should* be
there, not what *looks* like is there, /or/ what you *think* is there. It's
remarkable the difference it can make. You've got to be very, *very* good
to draw in the way you described -- the human brain really is too quick for
itself, and manages to fool itself too often.
If you draw seeing what is there, then look at your picture, you'll realise
it looks nothing like what it should. Why? Because you'd forgotten you
were drawing not a shape but an actual, real-life object.
Example: A couple of years back, I drew a picture of a parrot from a
photograph. The parrot was in mid-flight, so the wings were very blurred.
For the first couple of hourse, I drew what was in the photo -- head, beak,
wings, etc -- and then I stood back and looked at *my* picture, ignoring the
photo.
It looked like utter dross -- complete crap, it was.
Instead of sitting down with the photograph and working out where I went
wrong, I put away the photo and looked at the *animal*. What was wrong with
*it*? Another 2 hours of alterations, and my drawing was finished -- much
improved, with real tangible /life/, and a powerful sense of motion. It
ended up looking like the original photo, but in the previous 2 hours I had
effectively rubbed out and started again, without looking at the photo.
(BTW, I got 4th prize for that picture in the village fete -- not cos there
was anything wrong with the picture, but because I had only used pencil, and
the old biddies doing the judging like bright colours :)
The point? Ooooh, now you're asking... <g>
--
dougal
--
"You can laugh a spineless laugh
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you"
--Radiohead, Exit Music (for a film)
Timothy Rue
DS> Timothy Rue wrote in message
DS> <6610.885T1345T4...@earthlink.net>...
>>I took art class fer a # o years. 1 of dem tings I learned was 2 c
>>what is der and knot what I tink is der.
>>
DS> Really? Well, maybe you'd have more luck if you drew what
DS> *should* be there, not what *looks* like is there, /or/ what you
DS> *think* is there. It's remarkable the difference it can make.
DS> You've got to be very, *very* good to draw in the way you
DS> described -- the human brain really is too quick for itself, and
DS> manages to fool itself too often.
[snip - see original]
Generally you are doing nothing more than showing me how you can bit flip
abstractions, words. Like it's a game to you, nothing really to do with
drawing but just a matter of the collection of abstract word sequences.
There are examples of my work, even pencil, on my web site. Maybe you'll
find them yourself or someone will point you to them. There is even a
light wave animation, my fist animation, if you have the ability to view
such an animation and want to.
I haven't seen your work, but from what you have said, it seem to me that
you either don't want to learn, were being taught wrong or there is some
other reason why you where having a hard time duplicating a photograph
into pencil.
I do not question whether or not you did a pencil drawing that won fourth
place in an art contest. Art is a funny thing, it's widely open to the
opinion of the observer. And even the opinion of the opinion of an
observer (as you showed in your apparent opinion of the judges choice to
like color over the gray scale of pencil.)
You were not being judged for you skill to apply pencil photographically.
If such was your goal, then you would have applied a grid technique and
have drawn what you saw in each square of the matching grid. Only paying
attention to the overall to insure you followed the same gray scale
translation into pencil, from grid to grid.
I've seen excellent photographic pencil application applied with artistic
creative absence. Where I can appriciate the skill of duplicating a
photographic in pencil, but see nothing but that skill. I've also seen
and done photographic pencil work where the skill of duplication is
complimented by the artistic and creative choices and intentional
alterations in pencil. I have as well seen poor skill at photographic
duplication into pencil but very artistic and creative talent otherwise.
The point:
Artist are a dime a dozen. But most don't make it because they let their
ego get in the way.
Here's a question for you:
Is my ego in the way? Or is it just that I'm really pissed off about the
poor quality of the pencils, paints, paper, brushes, etc... The tools this
computer industry has for sale and how?
It seems that not only is the tools of very poor quality, but that the
industry pathetically wants to also own any work I might accomplish with
such tools. So much so that it is willing to hurt itself in the spoiled
tradition of a child saying "If I cannot have it, then nobody else will"
or more correctly if it is to exist, a spoiled child must be the
controlling owner of it.
Why else would you attempt to deny me talent I have?
Local
> I haven't seen your work, but from what you have said, it seem to me that
> you either don't want to learn,
I take it that VIC is done now?!?!?!? ;)
> Why else would you attempt to deny me talent I have?
Uh, no one can deny the talent of being an idiot that you are from
you!!!