AmigaWorld 1
Michal Brzeski
BTW check the source code:
<!-- This document created using BeyondPress(TM) 4.0 For Windows -->
:-(
--
Be
Alexander Chaney
: www.amiga.com
: BTW check the source code:
: <!-- This document created using BeyondPress(TM) 4.0 For Windows -->
Hmmmm. So!
Did it occur to you that the current crop of html/pdf document tools on
Amiga actually suck by comparison to the tools available to the Amiga?
We will get our chance to kick-ass soon, but for now we use the tools that
do the job best.
-Alex
Marcus
screen then I might consider the tools used to create these pages "better".
Using "superior" tools to create a crappy result kinda negates your
agruement.
Alexander Chaney <ach...@voicenet.com> wrote in message
news:6t_K4.362$p32....@news2.voicenet.com...
Keith Blakemore-Noble
something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> Michal Brzeski <brz...@box43.gnet.pl> wrote:
> : www.amiga.com
> : BTW check the source code:
>
> : <!-- This document created using BeyondPress(TM) 4.0 For Windows
> -->
>
> Hmmmm. So!
>
> Did it occur to you that the current crop of html/pdf document tools
> on Amiga actually suck
Heresy! :)
Amiga text editors are as good as any other text editor (for that is
all you need for creating HTML - anyone who uses anything more flashy
is just plain lazy <g>)
Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a nice
range of these for the Amiga too.
http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org list some more details (yeah, I know this
http:is a couple of months out of date, for which I apologise - I am
http:working on a nice big update to the whole site in my spare time,
http:in between fixing up the house and stuff - I'll get it done asap!)
Cheers,
Keith
--
You can't use the Internet from an Amiga...
...oh yes you can! http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org
Trizt
Alexander Chaney wrote:
>
> Michal Brzeski <brz...@box43.gnet.pl> wrote:
> : www.amiga.com
> : BTW check the source code:
>
> : <!-- This document created using BeyondPress(TM) 4.0 For Windows -->
>
> Hmmmm. So!
It had been alot nicer if it had said
<!-- This document created using WebCreator(TM) 0.99 For Elate/AmigaOS -->
the most sad part in the webpage was this
<FONT FACE="Tahoma" SIZE=2>
it made everything so damn small that it's a hell to read it.
//Trizt
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Michal Brzeski
>
> Michal Brzeski <brz...@box43.gnet.pl> wrote:
> : www.amiga.com
> : BTW check the source code:
>
> : <!-- This document created using BeyondPress(TM) 4.0 For Windows -->
>
> Hmmmm. So!
>
Hmmm - whats bad in CED? You dont need anything more than comfortable
editor to do cool web sites.
Anyway... Thats not a problem for me. It could be done even on washer -
the most important thing for me is quailty of AW.
--
Be
Michal Brzeski
Charles E. Taylor IV
Alexander Chaney <ach...@voicenet.com> writes:
> We will get our chance to kick-ass soon, but for now we use the tools that
> do the job best.
For a look at how well the tools used did the job:
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amiga.com%2F
I've seen far worse, though. On this machine the Amiga web site looks
fine (NS 4.7, Alpha/Linux), invalid as it might be. :)
--
Charles E. "Rick" Taylor, IV <cha...@clemson.edu>
http://orangesherbert.ces.clemson.edu
"We got the MRxL, and you got none!"
Terrance Richard Boyes
> On or around Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:40:02 GMT, Alexander Chaney wrote
> something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
[snip]
>> Did it occur to you that the current crop of html/pdf document tools
>> on Amiga actually suck
> Heresy! :)
> Amiga text editors are as good as any other text editor (for that is
Yeah, I use vim on all platforms :)
[snip]
--
<URL:http://www.pierrot.co.uk/> Team AMIGA
The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility.
And vice versa.
John Millington
: We will get our chance to kick-ass soon, but for now we use the tools that
: do the job best.
It appears highly unlikely that the page author has any _idea_ of what
tools do the job best. Otherwise, the page would not have included font
tags. Just another w3b d3z1ng3r d00d. Maybe next month's Amiga World
will have a shockwave animation.
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,
John Millington
Timothy Cameron
> www.amiga.com
> BTW check the source code:
>
> <!-- This document created using BeyondPress(TM) 4.0 For Windows -->
>
> :-(
> --
> Be
>
--
The author should be shot.. :)
They also forgot to put page "AW9.htm Amiga's Support Program" on the
index :o
Cheers,
Tim
PS -- NOT that Tim :).
Neil O'Rourke
Michal Brzeski <brz...@box43.gnet.pl> wrote in message
news:38FC6704...@box43.gnet.pl...
> www.amiga.com
> BTW check the source code:
>
> <!-- This document created using BeyondPress(TM) 4.0 For Windows -->
Surely the content is more important than the creator. Bu in this case I
found the content really sickening, like it was written by someone really in
love with themselves, looking at their glorious past with blinkers and rose
coloured glasses.
It seemed to me to be a mish-mash of ideas drawn from everywhere and
presented as a "vision". Some of the ideas remind me of the Apple Newton,
esp. where it describes how the concept of files is thrown out :(
Innovation this isn't. Cutting edge, this isn't. Trying to be different
for the sake of difference, it is.
Neil
Eric Slight
Who cares with what they did the site, go on, whine whine whine
and make this group lose credibility (if there's still any left).
You *REALLY* have nothing to do when you start bitching
after a html tag, who cares if they used FRONTPAGE or NETSCRAP
or CED or a commodore 64!? It's a god damn web page
the content is far more important that the tool used to
create it.
After that, you people want them to monitor the newsgroup
and listen to your advices, Heck if I was working there and
have that extra responsibility I'd say "it's not worth it" and
probably lose the FEW good arguments/ideas posted among
all the crap we can read here. :(
Oh great, now I am bitching against the bitchers....heh..
Jason Compton
: Surely the content is more important than the creator. Bu in this case I
: found the content really sickening, like it was written by someone really in
: love with themselves, looking at their glorious past with blinkers and rose
: coloured glasses.
Well, it -is- a corporate newsletter, which falls under the heading of
"marketing," after all. That it's so transparent, well, that's another
story.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
luca_...@my-deja.com
"Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a nice
> range of these for the Amiga too.
Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for Amiga.
Luca
------
To reply remove "nojunk" from gdi...@hpu.nojunk.edu
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Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
David Meiklejohn
wrote:
Even so, I am disappointed at the many mistakes in it.
"In 1984, the Amiga 1000 burst upon the scene of an unsuspecting
world." No, it was 1985. Small point, but don't Amiga Inc. want to
appear to be knowledgable about the Amiga? Especially as 1984 is
referred to more than once?
"In general terms, Elate is a Run Time Operating System (RTOS). The
advantage of an RTOS is in the way it handles multitasking." and they
go on to explain what a Real Time Operating System is. If they are
going to make a point of it being an RTOS, they should find out what
it stands for.
Then we have statements like "Firstly, there is no such thing as a
file. All elements are now just digital matter, a stream of zeros and
ones." How might a stream of zeros and ones be stored? What would
you call such a stream, on disk or anywhere else, if not a file? The
concept of a file is not a limiting one, so why not make use of the
term? Why be obtuse? Ditto for their statements about applications.
Look, it's fine to point out that there is a new paradigm (I hate that
word!) coming, or metaphor, or whatever. It's fine to point out that
text, sound and video are all data these days, and therefore we have
digital convergence where every form of media is just another file (or
another file-like object that we'll call an "element" because files
don't exist) and we will have lots of clever devices which won't look
like traditional computers and will be networked with each other and
our appliances and house lights etc. Fine. But to say that
everything is different, no more files or filesystems, applications or
operating systems? That is unnecessarily confusing, just a way of
making the vision seem grander.
Overall, a very disappointing first issue. And I wish they wouldn't
call it "Amiga World". AmigaWorld may not have been the greatest mag
ever, but it was a whole lot better than this piece of company
propaganda.
------------------------------------------------
David Meiklejohn
Amiga user since 1986
Robert Bryant
appreciate constructive feedback about the Amiga World zine.
Perfect it ain't. A corporate marketing newsletter it is; by
definition. It will likely never be Pulitzer-winning journalism. In
fact, AW is under strict orders to *not* compete with the commerical
magazines out there. Therefore it will be propaganda, pie-in-the-sky
and transparent, especially until real product starts flowing. Take a
look at any other corporation's internal NL and you'll find much of the
same.
Again, speaking only for myself, I hope it proves to be of some value
to most. Glean what you can from it and move on. I can't imagine users'
happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
And if anybody out there knows how to please all Amigans all the time,
please start your own business and get rich. I'll be among the first to
applaud you.
All the best,
- Rob.
Jason Compton
: I can't imagine users'
: happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Jason Compton
: Then we have statements like "Firstly, there is no such thing as a
: file. All elements are now just digital matter, a stream of zeros and
: ones." How might a stream of zeros and ones be stored? What would
: you call such a stream, on disk or anywhere else, if not a file? The
: concept of a file is not a limiting one, so why not make use of the
: term? Why be obtuse? Ditto for their statements about applications.
Gary Peake via proxy: "You're still thinking inside the box."
: operating systems? That is unnecessarily confusing, just a way of
: making the vision seem grander.
Which is the point of marketing. But I agree, it starts looking really
pathetic really quickly.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Robert Bryant
RB> I can't imagine users'
RB> happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
JC> Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
RB's response:
8^)
Marcus
Robert Bryant <cyra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8dkpar$ufh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As one of the writers, speaking *only* for myself, please know that I
> appreciate constructive feedback about the Amiga World zine.
Please remove the font tags so I can increase the font size enough to
actually read it.
Coz
>
> Robert Bryant <cyra...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> : I can't imagine users'
> : happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
>
> Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
>
> Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
That's because we have nowhere else to go ya big dummy! We -used- to
have Amiga Report. But no... They had better things to do. Prolly out on
the lanai sipping Mai Tais and leering at the pretty girls.
Coz
--
"A government that's big enough to give you everything you want is
big enough to take away everything you have..."
-Barry Goldwater
Alexander Chaney
: If the type wasn't fixed so small as to be nearly unreadable on a 1024x768
: screen then I might consider the tools used to create these pages "better".
: Using "superior" tools to create a crappy result kinda negates your
: agruement.
Just a guess and not trying to be crass, but I guess they were trying to
make it more readable on the standard Amiga 1200 type user who may either
be reading it on a 640x200, 640x400, or 640x480 screen more.
Just a wild guess
-Alex
Alexander Chaney
I too do my own html by hand via vim, but I'm a technical person as are
most Amiga users that are left. But those wishing to crank out quick and
nice web pages may not be as technical and they should be left to their
own devices.
Remember, Amiga Format was also done on a Mac.
MS Word is better than Wordsworth. I still use Wordsworth, but I'd be
fooling myslef if I believed otherwise.
-Alex
Alexander Chaney
: Oh great, now I am bitching against the bitchers....heh..
That's funny! But you're right and I'll stand corrected, but you can see
how easy it is to loose composure in this group sometimes.
-Alex
Alexander Chaney
: : I can't imagine users'
: : happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
: Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
Mild understatement!
-Alex
Jason Compton
: That's because we have nowhere else to go ya big dummy! We -used- to
: have Amiga Report. But no... They had better things to do. Prolly out on
: the lanai sipping Mai Tais and leering at the pretty girls.
Sure. Want to know the secret to my success? Invest every penny you make
on a free online magazine, then it's easy to retire young. :)
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
bme...@cs.monash.edu.au
>And if anybody out there knows how to please all Amigans all the time,
>please start your own business and get rich. I'll be among the first to
>applaud you.
I don't know about "all Amigans", but I am sure you would get a much
warmer reception if the articles directed at people "interested in the
more technical aspect of Amiga" actually contained useful information,
instead of meaningless technobabble combined with generous inaccuracies.
Quite frankly, after seeing those two articles, I just didn't have the
stomach to expose myself to "Tearing Down The Walls"....
Bernie
--
He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts --- for support
rather than illumination
Andrew Lang
Scottish man of letters, 1844-1912
bme...@cs.monash.edu.au
>the most sad part in the webpage was this
> <FONT FACE="Tahoma" SIZE=2>
>it made everything so damn small that it's a hell to read it.
Ahhh --- so you tried to read the small print...
Bernie "lynx is your friend" Meyer
--
Do not regret growing older. It's a privilege denied to many.
Unknown origin
Charles E. Taylor IV
>: Then we have statements like "Firstly, there is no such thing as a
>: file. All elements are now just digital matter, a stream of zeros and
>: ones." How might a stream of zeros and ones be stored? What would
>: you call such a stream, on disk or anywhere else, if not a file? The
>: concept of a file is not a limiting one, so why not make use of the
>: term? Why be obtuse? Ditto for their statements about applications.
> Gary Peake via proxy: "You're still thinking inside the box."
Perhaps. But honestly, the first thing I thought upon reading
http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW7.htm is "Oh great. Amiga's
hired Tim Rue."
For example:
"[The VIC] is a set of
digital matter (binary) elements that
produce and consume services within a
logical dynamic context. That context is
called the [VIC]Verse. It exists almost
as a virtual world in which these binary
elements go about their business,
passing messages to each other,
grouping together, co-operating with
each other."
> Which is the point of marketing. But I agree, it starts looking really
> pathetic really quickly.
Or someone's watched a certain geek movie one too many times.
"There aren't enough applications for the Amiga" --- any number of
comp.sys.amiga.advocacy posters
"There is no application." --- Amiga, Inc.
Daniel Thornton
> Please remove the font tags so I can increase the font size enough to
> actually read it.
Wild idea, love; why not just change your browser's default font sizes?
It's fine here. It's fine on a mates computer and he works in 1280
resolution.
Stop complaining about things you can rectify yourself.
--
The Wibble -- http://www.thewibble.co.uk ---------------------------------
The 10 best Biblical Chat-Up Lines... My Interesting Opinion on smokers...
more personal problems answered by The Old Man
- Updated: 13 April, 2000 ------ http://www.the-wibble.co.uk -- The Wibble
Keith Blakemore-Noble
wrote something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> > Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a
> > nice range of these for the Amiga too.
>
> Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for Amiga.
Nah.
Just quit being lazy and write your HTML properly - it's not that
difficult!
Cheers,
Keith
--
You can't use the Internet from an Amiga...
...oh yes you can! http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org
Coz
Pretty good one, too, I think. Note the narrowness of the page.
Coz
See everyone? He admits he made a pile. NOW we see why he can afford to
sit back and take pot shots and snap his fingers at fate.
I'd settle for a Margarita on Kauai's North Shore at Princeville.
Sigh... Been thinking of it since I got back. <sob>
Jason Compton
: Perhaps. But honestly, the first thing I thought upon reading
: http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW7.htm is "Oh great. Amiga's
: hired Tim Rue."
[snip example]
I do see your point, it has the same sort of "Christ, I hope nobody asks
me just what the hell this really means" nonsense quotient.
: "There aren't enough applications for the Amiga" --- any number of
: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy posters
: "There is no application." --- Amiga, Inc.
Heh.
It's kind of funny how many of BFCCI's ideas seem to be precisely those
that were exposed over the past decade as unattractive and unworkable, and
failed thoroughly. This "no such thing as files/applications" thing, in
essence, is the OpenDoc strategy: there are no applications, per se, just
modules that know how to deal with certain types of data.
Ooooh yeah. I love the way OpenDoc works on my Taligent OS Internet
appliance... :)
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Marcus
asks for "constructive critism" saying that making it not badly setup is not
complaining. So once again shove it up your ass and twist it.
Daniel Thornton <mc...@x-stream.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38FE15CA.MD...@x-stream.co.uk...
Timothy Rue
CET> In article <8dkqfq$a77$2...@flood.xnet.com>,
CET> Jason Compton <jcom...@typhoon.xnet.com> writes:
>> David Meiklejohn <mei...@zeta.org.au> wrote:
>>: Then we have statements like "Firstly, there is no such thing as a
>>: file. All elements are now just digital matter, a stream of zeros
>>: and ones." How might a stream of zeros and ones be stored? What
>>: would you call such a stream, on disk or anywhere else, if not a
>>: file? The concept of a file is not a limiting one, so why not
>>: make use of the term? Why be obtuse? Ditto for their statements
>>: about applications.
>> Gary Peake via proxy: "You're still thinking inside the box."
CET> Perhaps. But honestly, the first thing I thought upon reading
CET> http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW7.htm is "Oh great.
CET> Amiga's hired Tim Rue."
CET> For example:
not a very good example, but there is plenty more to make up for your bad
example.
one who copies, doesn't know all of why things are done the way they are.
Are you ready for the bad to sneak up on you?
---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
*~ ~ ~ Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue What's *DONE* in all we do? *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:tim...@mindspring.com >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ ^<--------<----9----<--------<
Search email/name @ http://www.dejanews.com for other puzzle parts/posts.
milan
bme...@cs.monash.edu.au schreef in artikel
<8dl3pn$dcs$1...@wombat.cs.monash.edu.au>...
> Robert Bryant <cyra...@my-deja.com> writes:
>
> >And if anybody out there knows how to please all Amigans all the time,
> >please start your own business and get rich. I'll be among the first to
> >applaud you.
>
> I don't know about "all Amigans", but I am sure you would get a much
> warmer reception if the articles directed at people "interested in the
> more technical aspect of Amiga" actually contained useful information,
> instead of meaningless technobabble combined with generous inaccuracies.
>
> Quite frankly, after seeing those two articles, I just didn't have the
> stomach to expose myself to "Tearing Down The Walls"....
I must admit I also lost interest really early while reading, at first I
thought somebody accidently activated the improbability drive...
Milan
Robert Bryant
RB> happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
JC> Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
AC> Mild understatement!
Geez;
Jason, I took your comment to be tongue-in-cheek. As a human being, I
really hope it was.
There's so much more to happiness than a silly computer and the company
that bears its name.
Go outside, enjoy the sunshine, spend time with someone (carbon-based,
not silicon ;^) whom you really care about. Life's too short to spend
it waiting.
- Rob.
Daniel Thornton
> Fuck you. A badly setup web page is a badly setup web page and when someone
> asks for "constructive critism" saying that making it not badly setup is not
> complaining. So once again shove it up your ass and twist it.
It's not badly set up; almost every site I've been to uses font size 2 as
the standard text size. Why should they use another size to please one
moaning person who could rectify it himself?
bme...@cs.monash.edu.au
>bme...@cs.monash.edu.au schreef in artikel
>> Quite frankly, after seeing those two articles, I just didn't have the
>> stomach to expose myself to "Tearing Down The Walls"....
>I must admit I also lost interest really early while reading, at first I
>thought somebody accidently activated the improbability drive...
I fetched a bucket and had a look at it after all. I got as far as
Like Amiga, Tesla, and his partner J.P. Morgan, had to steamroll
the ideas in the industry in order to break the establishment for
the benefit of all.
(with a subsequent explanation of how they heroically dragged the world
away from Edison's inferior DC system, despite the world not being to
eager to be dragged).
That, in particular the "and his partner J.P. Morgan", struck me as kind
of odd; I didn't remember it that way from when I read about the AC/DC wars.
The trusty Encyclopedia Britannica then revealed that Morgan was, in fact,
one of the original financiers of "Edison Electric Light Company". But yes,
he did partner with Tesla later in life --- when Tesla was constructing
a world broadcasting tower on Long Island. To quote:
[Tesla] expected to provide worldwide communication and to furnish
facilities for sending pictures, messages, weather warnings, and
stock reports.
I.e. he expected to provide something not too much unlike what Amiga is
talking about --- universal communication. And what happened to this
great partnership of Tesla and Morgan? Quote:
The project was abandoned because of a financial panic, labour
troubles, and Morgan's withdrawal of support. It was Tesla's
greatest defeat.
Oops --- maybe not the most appropriate parallel to draw ;-)
Bernie
--
Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never voted for
President. One hopes it is the same half
Gore Vidal
Randy Vice
>
> RB> I can't imagine users'
> RB> happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
>
> JC> Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
>
> AC> Mild understatement!
>
> Geez;
>
> Jason, I took your comment to be tongue-in-cheek. As a human being, I
> really hope it was.
Just how long have you been in this newsgroup?
> There's so much more to happiness than a silly computer and the company
> that bears its name.
Just how long have you been in this newsgroup?
>
> Go outside, enjoy the sunshine, spend time with someone (carbon-based,
> not silicon ;^) whom you really care about. Life's too short to spend
> it waiting.
Just how long have you been in this newsgroup?
</hint>
--
: damo...@TheNostromo.cx : Bruce Morrow, a man before and after
his time :
: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the
people of the :
: United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own
arms." :
: - Samuel Adams : Morrow Project Science - Postholocaust Party
Animals
Jason Compton
: RB> I can't imagine users'
: RB> happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
: JC> Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
: AC> Mild understatement!
: Geez;
: Jason, I took your comment to be tongue-in-cheek. As a human being, I
: really hope it was.
It was intended as both a barb and a quip. But if you read this again
with any attention to detail whatsoever, you'll notice that I am not the
one who replied with "Mild understatement."
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Justin Van Heddegem
> > : happiness and fates relying on a corporate newsletter.
> >
> > Obviously you don't understand Amiga users very well, then.
> >
> > Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
>
> That's because we have nowhere else to go ya big dummy! We -used- to
> have Amiga Report. But no... They had better things to do. Prolly out on
> the lanai sipping Mai Tais and leering at the pretty girls.
Yeah, and we used to have csam for decent info too. Of course that's
all gone. everyone with a bit of brains has moved away. Alot of people
have better things to do than be flamed by the conservative pricks
that hang around here. I can't figure out what some people actually
want. they want a new amiga but they don't want it to be different
from their old one.
Justin
--
Justin Van Heddegem - Student At the RUG - University Of Ghent (Belguim)
E-mail: Justin.va...@rug.ac.be
URL: <None Yet...>
Amiga4000/040@40MHz & PPC 604@180MHz, 150Mb Ram, CyberVisionPPC
6.1Gb UW-SCSI HD Running OS3.1, Linux/APUS & System7
Robert Bryant
> Just how long have you been in this newsgroup?
8^)
Apparently, either not long enough or *way* too long.
Robert Bryant
JC> with any attention to detail whatsoever, you'll notice
JC> that I am not the
JC> one who replied with "Mild understatement."
(nodding) Hence my dismay; The idea that there actually *are* people
who's happiness banks on Amiga.
-RB.
Charles E. Taylor IV
Randy Vice <damo...@thenostromo.cx> writes:
Results of parsing the previous post with a HCML parser:
> </hint>
Error: Closing </HINT> tag encountered before opening tag.
The previous post does NOT validate as a HCML document. Clue is
likely to be ignored by most browsers.
Robert Bryant
I think you nailed it spot-on. The current Amiga 'community' is both an
asset and liability to the new Amiga company, because all that's left
is made up of die-hard fanatics. Die-hard fanatics are notoriously
fickle (in terms of demands/desires) and more interested in boisterous
posing (or is that posting ;^) than actually helping.
Everyone who was out to get real work done and progress with technology
has moved on.
(sigh) But my A3000 still does everything it did when I first got it
and is the main feature of (though not the only computer on) my desk,
so who am I to talk? 8^)
- Rob.
"Justin Van Heddegem" <justin.va...@rug.ac.be> wrote:
> Yeah, and we used to have csam for decent info too. Of course that's
> all gone. everyone with a bit of brains has moved away. Alot of people
> have better things to do than be flamed by the conservative pricks
> that hang around here. I can't figure out what some people actually
> want. they want a new amiga but they don't want it to be different
> from their old one.
Alexander Chaney
: It was intended as both a barb and a quip. But if you read this again
: with any attention to detail whatsoever, you'll notice that I am not the
: one who replied with "Mild understatement."
Yes, that would actually have been me. I say that because many people do
get off on the drama that is happening in tha Amiga community. Yes, it
may be sad. Yes, it follows no logic. But to some, it seems to matter
quite a bit as many of the posts have shown. Not to the point where all
esle comes to a standstill, but something has to be said about anyone who
is left in the Amiga community. The remaining users have a bit of
die-hard in them and are very interested in what happenes next. I think
it's a bit cool to be among such people.
-Alex
Robert Bryant
"Jason, I took your comment to be tongue-in-cheek. As a human being, I
really hope it was."
should have been:
"I took Jason's comment to be tongue-in-cheek. As a human being, I
really hope it was."
Better?
- Rob.
Jason Compton
: Guess I should have worded my reply differently:
: "Jason, I took your comment to be tongue-in-cheek. As a human being, I
: really hope it was."
: should have been:
: "I took Jason's comment to be tongue-in-cheek. As a human being, I
: really hope it was."
: Better?
Well, yeah, because now I see that you read the quote tree correctly.
But it was certainly meant to be double-edged.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Robert Bryant
Of course. 8^) As expected.
Them's the ways 'round these parts.
-RB
John Millington
: It's not badly set up; almost every site I've been to uses font size 2 as
: the standard text size. Why should they use another size to please one
: moaning person who could rectify it himself?
Of course it's badly set up. Instead of using font size 2 or specficying
any other font size, they could have just left the font alone. Then it
would always look 100% perfect on every machine from a VIC-20 to a SGI.
Why do w3b d3z1ng3rz always have to try to override the user's preferences?
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,
John Millington
Rick Hodger
> Fuck you. A badly setup web page is a badly setup web page and when
> someone asks for "constructive critism" saying that making it not badly
> setup is not complaining. So once again shove it up your ass and twist it.
He does have a good point though, why do you have the fonts setup so that
one quite commonly used web-font is small enough to make it difficult to
read? I'd hate to see Tahoma/1 on your system...
> Daniel Thornton <mc...@x-stream.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:38FE15CA.MD...@x-stream.co.uk...
>> Is it Marcus (mquee...@hotmail.com), Mark? Sounds just like her...
>>> Please remove the font tags so I can increase the font size enough to
>>> actually read it.
>> Wild idea, love; why not just change your browser's default font sizes?
>> It's fine here. It's fine on a mates computer and he works in 1280
>> resolution.
>> Stop complaining about things you can rectify yourself.
>> --
>> The Wibble -- http://www.thewibble.co.uk
>> ---------------------------------
>> The 10 best Biblical Chat-Up Lines... My Interesting Opinion on
> smokers...
>> more personal problems answered by The Old Man - Updated:
>> 13 April, 2000 ------ http://www.the-wibble.co.uk -- The Wibble
See ya later!
--
Rick Hodger - Author of SimpleFTP
Anti Spam Sig - Remove the obvious
Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow.
Martin Nicholson
RB> I think you nailed it spot-on. The current Amiga 'community' is
RB> both an asset and liability to the new Amiga company, because all
RB> that's left is made up of die-hard fanatics. Die-hard fanatics
RB> are notoriously fickle (in terms of demands/desires) and more
RB> interested in boisterous posing (or is that posting ;^) than
RB> actually helping.
If it wasn't for the "Die-hard fanatics" then the Amiga would have
died years ago, and AI wouldn't even be in business. It was those
fanatics, buying software and hardware, writing apps, and generally
keeping the name in the minds of those who had left for other
platforms, who have allowed AI to even consider bringing a new
machine to the market, using the name Amiga.
Shame you find them a liability.
Personally, I think that AI owe those die-hards a debt. One that's
easily repaid. Build a machine that's worthy of the name, don't
bullshit, and get the facts right. My personal happiness doesn't rely
on a computer, never has and never will. But I do have to work with
computers an awful lot, and I prefer to use this Amiga because of
it's inherent strengths, over the Pentium that's in my office. I'd
like to continue doing this for several reasons. Because I prefer to
work, and not have to get over the inadequacies of the OS. Because I
don't want to be another "prisoner" of Microsoft apps, and thus
forced to use inefficient and bloated software, that will use up
resources and refuse to work with some third party files and apps.
Because, in a world of androgynous PCs, I prefer to be on "the
outside". All these things help satisfy a certain anarchic,
individualistic, and sheer "bloody-mindedness" attitude to life that
I have cultivated, and thus add to my general feeling of well-being.
If you want to find nerds, you'll find theem on PCs I think. Anyone
who can live their life around a computer, when it's so bloody awful,
has to be one :)
Worzel
--
%%
There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot.
%%
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
%%
My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted.
%%
Someone sent me a postcard picture of the earth. On the back it said, "Wish you were here."
%%
Cross country skiing is great if you live in a small country.
%%
I spilled spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
%%
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
%%
"Did you sleep well?" "No, I made a couple of mistakes."
%%
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
%%
My socks DO match. They're the same thickness.
%%
I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.
%%
I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park anywhere near the place.
%%
What's another word for Thesaurus?
%%
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
%%
If you were going to shoot a mime, would you use a silencer?
%%
I planted some bird seed. A bird came up. Now I don't know what to feed it.
%%
I eat swiss cheese from the inside out.
%%
I had amnesia once or twice.
%%
I bought a million lottery tickets. I won a dollar.
%%
I brought a mirror to Lovers' Lane. I told everybody I'm Narcissus.
%%
How many people does it take to change a searchlight bulb?
%%
I wear my heart on my sleeve. I wear my liver on my pant leg.
%%
I still have my Christmas Tree. I looked at it today. Sure enough, I couldn't see any forests.
%%
If you can wave a fan, and you can wave a club, can you wave a fan club?
%%
If you write the word "monkey" a million times, do you start to think you're Shakespeare?
%%
My roommate got a pet elephant. Then it got lost. It's in the apartment somewhere.
%%
Smoking cures weight problems...eventually...
%%
Yesterday I told a chicken to cross the road. It said, "what for?"
%%
I xeroxed my watch. Now I have time to spare.
%%
I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour in only ten minutes.
%%
I eat swiss cheese. But I only nibble on it. I make the holes bigger.
%%
I got a garage door opener. It can't close. Just open.
%%
There aren't enough days in the weekend.
%%
Droughts are because god didn't pay his water bill.
%%
Is "tired old cliche" one?
%%
If you had a million Shakespeares, could they write like a monkey?
%%
If you tell a joke in the forest, but nobody laughs, was it a joke?
%%
It only rains straight down. God doesn't do windows.
%%
When I get bored I go to a Seven-Eleven and ask for a two-by-four and a box of three-by-fives.
%%
The sign said "eight items or less". So I changed my name to Les.
%%
I rented a lottery ticket. I won a million dollars. But I had to give it back.
%%
I xeroxed a mirror. Now I have an extra xerox machine.
%%
I went to a haunted house, looked under the kitchen table, and found spirit gum.
%%
I went to a garage sale. "How much for the garage?" "It's not for sale."
%%
I went to San Francisco. I found someone's heart.
%%
I know the guy who writes all those bumper stickers. He hates New York.
%%
I had my coathangers spayed.
%%
I washed a sock. Then I put it in the dryer. When I took it out, it was gone.
%%
The Bermuda Triangle got tired of warm weather. It moved to Alaska. Now Santa Claus is missing.
%%
I went to a fancy french restaurant called "Deja Vu." The headwaiter said, "Don't I know you?"
%%
Last week I forgot how to ride a bicycle.
%%
I had some eyeglasses. I was walking down the street when suddenly the prescription ran out.
%%
I got food poisoning today. I don't know when I'll use it.
%%
I put instant coffee in a microwave oven and almost went back in time.
%%
It's a fine night to have an evening.
%%
Even snakes are afraid of snakes.
%%
I can't stop thinking like this.
%%
This isn't all true.
%%
I put hardwood floors on top of wall-to-wall carpet.
%%
Tinsel is really snakes' mirrors.
%%
I spent all my money on a FAX machine. Now I can only FAX collect.
%%
What are imitation rhinestones?
%%
If a word in the dictionary were mispelled, how would we know?
%%
If God dropped acid, would he see people?
%%
I wrote a few children's books...not on purpose.
%%
I'm moving to Mars next week, so if you have any boxes...
%%
I saw a bank that said "24 Hour Banking", but I don't have that much time.
%%
I went to a general store. They wouldn't let me buy anything specifically.
%%
I went to a 7-11 and asked for a 2x4 and a box of 3x5's. The clerk said, "ten-four."
%%
Ever notice how irons have a setting for *permanent* press? I don't get it...
%%
I couldn't find the remote control to the remote control.
%%
I invented the cordless extension cord.
%%
My roommate got a pet elephant. Then it got lost. It's in the apartment somewhere.
%%
I installed a skylight in my apartment...The people who live above me are furious!
%%
In my house on the ceilings I have paintings of the rooms above...so I never have to go upstairs.
%%
I have a microwave fireplace in my house...The other night I laid down in front of the fire for the evening in two minutes.
%%
I bought a house, on a one-way dead-end road. I don't know how I got there.
%%
I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights, so it looks like I'm the only one moving.
%%
I had to stop driving my car for a while...the tires got dizzy.
%%
My neighbor has a circular driveway...he can't get out.
%%
I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park anywhere near the place.
%%
I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering.
%%
Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali. He was using a dotted line. He caught every other fish.
%%
There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.
%%
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
%%
I bought some powdered water, but I don't know what to add to it.
%%
When I was a little kid we had a sand box. It was a quicksand box. I was an only child...eventually.
%%
My friend Winnie is a procrastinator. He didn't get his birthmark until he was eight years old.
%%
My school colors were clear. We used to say, "I'm not naked, I'm in the band."
%%
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
%%
Lots of comedians have people they try to mimic. I mimic my shadow.
%%
I got a new shadow. I had to get rid of the other one...it wasn't doing what I was doing.
%%
If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
%%
I was reading the dictionary. I thought it was a poem about everything.
%%
What's another word for Thesaurus?
%%
Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?
%%
I'm writing a book. I've got the page numbers done.
%%
I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography.
%%
After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in?
%%
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time.
%%
I broke my arm trying to fold a bed. It wasn't the kind that folds.
%%
I like to reminisce with people I don't know.
%%
I like to skate on the other side of the ice.
%%
I lost a button hole today.
%%
I made wine out of raisins so I wouldn't have to wait for it to age.
%%
I saw a man with a wooden leg, and a real foot.
%%
I saw a subliminal advertising executive, but only for a second.
%%
I saw a tree fall in the woods, and I didn't hear it.
%%
I took a baby shower.
%%
I used to be a bartender at the Betty Ford Clinic.
%%
I was skydiving horizontally.
%%
I washed mud, off of mud.
%%
I'm so hyper...[said with a very dull voice]
%%
If you saw a heat wave, would you wave back?
%%
If you were going to shoot a mime, would you use a silencer?
%%
My VCR flashes 01:35, 01:35, 01:35, ...
%%
"So, do you live around here often?"
%%
Women...can't live with 'em...can't shoot 'em.
%%
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
%%
I had a dream that all the victims of The Pill came back...boy, were they mad!
%%
The Stones, I love the Stones. I watch them whenever I can. Fred, Barney...
%%
I like to fill my tub up with water, then turn the shower on and act like I'm in a submarine that's been hit.
%%
It doesn't matter what temperature the room is, it's always room temperature.
%%
I have the world's largest collection of seashells. I keep it on all the beaches of the world...perhaps you've seen it.
%%
I filled out an application that said, "In Case Of Emergency Notify". I wrote "Doctor". What's my mother going to do?
%%
I had a friend who was a clown. When he died, all his friends went to the funeral in one car.
%%
The sun got confused about daylight savings time. It rose twice. Everything had two shadows.
%%
Every so often, I like to go to the window, look up, and smile for a satellite picture.
%%
I want to get a tatoo of myself on my entire body, only 2" taller.
%%
I'm kinda tired. I was up all night trying to round off infinity. Then I got bored and went out and painted passing lines on curved roads.
%%
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
%%
I got a new shadow. I had to get rid of the other one... It wasn't doing what I was doing.
%%
I tried to draw my shadow once, but I couldn't... My arm kept moving.
%%
I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree fell right in front of me and I didn't hear it.
%%
I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension.
%%
I didn't know it then, but looking back, in hindsight, I realize that when I was younger I could see into the future. Now I'm getting all my premonitions as flashbacks!
%%
I've been doing a lot of abstract painting lately, extremely abstract. No brush, no paint, no canvas, I just think about it.
%%
I like to reminisce with people I don't know. Granted, it takes longer.
%%
I like to skate on the other side of the ice.
%%
If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
%%
Four years ago... No, it was yesterday. Today I... No, that wasn't me. Sometimes I... No, I don't.
%%
Is it weird in here, or is it just me?
%%
A friend of mine once sent me a post card with a picture of the entire planet Earth taken from space. On the back it said, "Wish you were here."
%%
Every so often, I like to stick my head out the window, look up, and smile for a satellite picture.
%%
Sorry, my mind was wandering. One time my mind went all the way to Venus on mail order and I couldn't pay for it.
%%
It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
%%
Cross country skiing is great if you live in a small country.
%%
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time.
%%
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
%%
I have the world's largest collection of seashells. I keep it on all the beaches of the world... Perhaps you've seen it.
%%
It's a good thing we have gravity, or else when birds died they'd just stay right up there. Hunters would be all confused.
%%
When I die, I'm leaving my body to science fiction.
%%
I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?" I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar."
%%
I saw a bank that said "24 Hour Banking", but I don't have that much time.
%%
I went to the museum where they had all the heads and arms from the statues that are in all the other museums.
%%
I like to go to art museums and name the untitled paintings... Boy With Pail... Kitten On Fire.
%%
One time I went to a museum where all the work in the museum had been done by children. They had all the paintings up on refrigerators.
%%
One time I went to a drive-in in a taxi cab. The movie cost me $95.
%%
I went to the cinema, and the prices were: Adults $5.00, children $2.50. So I said, "Give me two boys and a girl."
%%
I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at any time." So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.
%%
I went to a general store. They wouldn't let me buy anything specifically.
%%
I was in the supermarket the other day, and I met a lady in the aisle where they keep the generic brands. Her name was "woman".
%%
I went to a 7-11 and asked for a 2x4 and a box of 3x5's. The clerk said, "ten-four."
%%
I was in the grocery store. I saw a sign that said "pet supplies." So I did. Then I went outside and saw a sign that said "compact cars"...
%%
Ever notice how irons have a setting for *permanent* press? I don't get it...
%%
I have a microwave fireplace in my house... The other night I laid down in front of the fire for the evening in two minutes.
%%
My VCR flashes 01:35, 01:35, 01:35, ...
%%
I have the oldest typewriter in the world. It types in pencil.
%%
I couldn't find the remote control to the remote control.
%%
I invented the cordless extension cord.
%%
Today I dialed a wrong number... The other person said, "Hello?" And I said, "Hello, could I speak to Joey?"... They said, "Uh... I don't think so... he's only 2 months old." I said, "I'll wait."
%%
Last week I bought a new phone. I took it out of the box, hooked it up to the wall... Pressed redial. The phone had a nervous breakdown.
%%
I bought a self-learning record to learn Spanish. I turned it on and went to sleep; the record got stuck. The next day I could only stutter in Spanish.
%%
I was reading the dictionary. I thought it was a poem about everything.
%%
Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song? The guy who wrote that song wrote everything.
%%
I'm writing a book. I've got the page numbers done, so now I just have to fill in the rest.
%%
I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography.
%%
I wrote a few children's books... Not on purpose.
%%
I just got out of the hospital. I was in a speed reading accident. I hit a book mark and flew across the room.
%%
I installed a skylight in my apartment.... The people who live above me are furious!
%%
In my house on the ceilings I have paintings of the rooms above... So I never have to go upstairs.
%%
I have a decaffeinated coffee table. You'd never know it to look at it.
%%
My neighbors don't like it when I talk to my plants... I use a megaphone.
%%
I bought a house, on a one-way dead-end road. I don't know how I got there.
%%
My house is on the median strip of a highway. You don't really notice, except I have to leave the driveway doing 60 MPH.
%%
I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights, so it looks like I'm the only one moving.
%%
I had to stop driving my car for a while... The tires got dizzy.
%%
I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park anywhere near the place.
%%
I like to pick up hitchhikers. When they get in the car I say, "Put on your seat belt. I want to try something. I saw it once in a cartoon, but I think I can do it."
%%
I had a friend who was a clown. When he died, all his friends went to the funeral in one car.
%%
When I woke up this morning my girlfriend asked me, "Did you sleep good?" I said, "No, I made a few mistakes."
%%
I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering.
%%
One night I walked home very late and fell asleep in somebody's satellite dish. My dreams showed up on TVs all over the world.
%%
I was once arrested for walking in someone else's sleep.
%%
Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect.
%%
If toast always lands butter-side down, and cats always land on their feet, what happen if you strap toast on the back of a cat and drop it?
%%
I put contact lenses in my dog's eyes. They had little pictures of cats on them. Then I took one out and he ran around in circles.
%%
I spilled spot remover on my dog. He's gone now.
%%
I don't like dogs... Keep getting mustard on my catching glove.
%%
Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali. He was using a dotted line. He caught every other fish.
%%
There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.
%%
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
%%
I was born by Caesarean section... But not so you'd notice. It's just that when I leave a house, I go out through the window.
%%
When I was a baby, I kept a diary. Recently, I was rereading it. It said, "Day 1 Still tired from the move. Day 2 Everybody talks to me like I'm an idiot."
%%
When I was little, my grandfather used to make me stand in a closet for five minutes without moving. He said it was elevator practice.
%%
When I was a little kid we had a sand box. It was a quicksand box. I was an only child... Eventually.
%%
My friend Winnie is a procrastinator. He didn't get his birthmark until he was eight years old.
%%
When I was 10, my pa told me never to talk to strangers. We haven't spoken since.
%%
My school colors were clear. We used to say, "I'm not naked, I'm in the band."
%%
After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in?
%%
I was arrested for selling illegal-sized paper.
%%
The ice cream truck in my neighborhood plays "Helter, Skelter."
%%
I broke my arm trying to fold a bed. It wasn't the kind that folds.
%%
I broke a leg one time... Spilled coffee all over.
%%
I lost a button hole today. Where am I gonna find another one?
%%
I made wine out of raisins so I wouldn't have to wait for it to age.
%%
I saw a man with a wooden leg, and a real foot.
%%
I saw a subliminal advertising executive, but only for a second.
%%
A wino asked me for change... I gave him my shirt.
%%
Factorials were someone's attempt to make math *look* exciting.
%%
I took a baby shower.
%%
How young can you die of old age?
%%
If you saw a heat wave, would you wave back?
%%
If you were going to shoot a mime, would you use a silencer?
%%
On the other hand... You have different fingers.
%%
I can levitate birds. No one cares.
%%
Women... Can't live with 'em... Can't shoot 'em.
%%
If all the nations in the world are in debt, where did all the money go?
%%
If the pen is mightier than the sword, in a duel I'll let you have the pen!
%%
What do batteries run on?
%%
My grandma says she has eyes in the back of her head... I hope it's not hereditary.
%%
The other day when I was walking through the woods, I saw a rabbit standing in front of a candle making shadows of people on a tree.
%%
I stayed up all night playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.
%%
The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the morning and doesn't stop until you get to work.
%%
The sun got confused about daylight savings time. It rose twice. Everything had two shadows.
%%
Last week the candle factory burned down. Everyone just stood around and sang Happy Birthday.
%%
I put my air conditioner in backwards. It got cold outside. The weatherman on TV was confused. "It was supposed to be hot today."
%%
I was in the first submarine. Instead of a periscope, they had a kaleidoscope. "We're surrounded."
%%
When I turned two I was really anxious, because I'd doubled my age in a year. I thought, if this keeps up, by the time I'm six I'll be ninety.
%%
Sponges grow in the ocean. That just kills me. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn't happen.
%%
I put instant coffee in a microwave oven and almost went back in time.
%%
You know how it is when you're walking up the stairs, and you get to the top, and you think there's one more step? I'm like that all the time.
%%
If God dropped acid, would he see people?
%%
I went around my house and turned on all the lights. Then I put mirrors around all the light bulbs. Now the electric company sends me a check each month.
%%
I worked in a health food store once. A guy came in and asked me, "If I melt dry ice, can I take a bath without getting wet?"
%%
I bought a dog the other day... I named him Stay. It's fun to call him... "Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!" He went insane.
%%
For my birthday I got a humidifier and a de-humidifier. I put them in the same room and let them fight it out.
%%
What's another word for "thesaurus"?
%%
I wrote a song, but I can't read music. Every time I hear a new song on the radio, I think "Hey, maybe I wrote that."
%%
A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture. You don't have to go. You'll just be walking down the street and.................oohh, that's much better.
%%
Last week I forgot how to ride a bicycle.
%%
I didn't know it then, but looking back, in hindsight, I realize that when I was younger I could see into the future. Now I'm getting all my premonitions as flashbacks!
%%
My girlfriend's so intense... She woke me up the other night and asked, "If you could tell exactly when and how you were going to die, would you want to know?" I said, "Heck no, why?" "Doesn't matter, just go back back to sleep..."
%%
My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted.
%%
"Hermits have no peer pressure."
%%
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
%%
Friday, I was in a bookstore and I started talking to a French looking girl. She was a bilingual illiterate she couldn't read in two different languages.
%%
I had some eyeglasses. I was walking down the street when suddenly the prescription ran out.
%%
I saw a sign at a gas station. It said "Help Wanted." There was another sign below it that said "Self Service." So I hired myself. Then I made myself the boss. I gave myself a raise. I paid myself. Then I quit.
%%
You know when you're rocking in a rocking chair, and you go so far that you almost fall over backwards, but at the last instant you catch yourself? That's how I feel all the time.
%%
You know how it is when you're reading a book and falling asleep, you're reading, reading... and all of a sudden you notice your eyes are closed? I'm like that all the time.
Today I dialed a wrong number... The other person said, "Hello?" And I said
"Hello, could I speak to Joey?"... They said, "Uh... I don't think so... h
's only 2 months old." I said, "I'll wait."
Coz
<snip>
> Yeah, and we used to have csam for decent info too. Of course that's
> all gone. everyone with a bit of brains has moved away.
Ahem, WE are still here Justin. Be careful what ya say! I was poking
Jason in the ribs a bit and forgot the smiley. 8^)
> Alot of people
> have better things to do than be flamed by the conservative pricks
> that hang around here. I can't figure out what some people actually
> want. they want a new amiga but they don't want it to be different
> from their old one.
>
> Justin
For some that's true. They want a direct lineal descendant of the
original Amiga box.
I once favored an intermediate Amiga box back when Escom, et al, were
doing the grabs on CBM's shell. Basically an A4000 but with 060 and PCI
slots with a couple of Zorro III slots. Pretty straight forward. On the
wishful thinking list was another upgrade to the chipset or PPC instead
of 060.
It was not to be. The years have passed and the computer market itself
has had fundamental changes.
Technically there is no reason why a sooper dooper lineal descendant of
the Amiga couldn't be done.
But there are reasons why it most certainly won't:
a. Money. It takes gobs of cash to design and set up manufacturing
facilities even if you contract to Taiwan or Singapore. This in addition
to the OS research.
b. Market. The market will ignore a proprietary desktop introduced today
even if it's advanced. Back when the original A1000 was introduced the
general perception was that compatibility was a minor issue unless they
needed to communicate. People had been bringing out computer after
computer of different architectures each with a feature or features
capping the last.
When IBM came out with the PC in 1981 their reputation in business was
such that they were credited with validating the personal computer in
spite of the fact it wasn't very good technically and grotesquely
expensive. But by the time the Amiga was released the compatibility
issue had just become the noose.
So, is what AI doing a workable alternative?
I dunno, ask me next year. But I'm pulling for 'em.
David Meiklejohn
<justin.va...@rug.ac.be> wrote:
>Yeah, and we used to have csam for decent info too. Of course that's
>all gone. everyone with a bit of brains has moved away. Alot of people
>have better things to do than be flamed by the conservative pricks
>that hang around here. I can't figure out what some people actually
>want. they want a new amiga but they don't want it to be different
>from their old one.
Something that is COMPLETELY different from the current Amigas is not
an Amiga at all. Some of us enjoy using Amigas, but wish they were
more up to date. We want them (and the AmigaOS) upgraded, not
replaced.
Now whether or not this is commercially viable (I would agree that it
is not) is not the point. You were discussing what we *want*, which
bears little relation to what we can have, in practice.
------------------------------------------------
David Meiklejohn
Amiga user since 1986
Stuart B.
> : Yeah, I use vim on all platforms :)
>
> I too do my own html by hand via vim, but I'm a technical person as are
> most Amiga users that are left. But those wishing to crank out quick and
> nice web pages may not be as technical and they should be left to their
> own devices.
>
> Remember, Amiga Format was also done on a Mac.
>
> MS Word is better than Wordsworth. I still use Wordsworth, but I'd be
> fooling myslef if I believed otherwise.
>
> -Alex
>
Maybe so, but try creating multiple text frames/boxes in Word, and it
starts to get to be a real pain in the arse.
Also try loading in *VERY* large text files for editing in Word, and see if
everything is where it should be. And your right, most of us using Amigas
today are Technical people. That's why I still use one. If I have to
edit/Proof read an Electronics Manual, I'd like it to be in the right
order, not with swapped paragraphs etc.
Oh, and this is not actually a fault with Word itself, but a problem with
the GUI.... Damn swap files. Massive memory overheads, still got plenty
of RAM left and it still shuffles files in and out of SWAP files. Must
have been hand coded by a Cocker Spaniel.
--
BillWays
Electron Systems
GLASGOW
Marcus
16pt. fonts are small. You don't know what you're talking about.
Amiga World pages are one of a very, very few pages that can't have their
fonts enlarged unless you think I've been viewing all internet pages with
the tiny font the Amiga World pages contain. Since you claim "almost every
site" is set up as the Amiga World site is constructed then why doesn't
"almost every site" display the same tiny fonts. And you're trying to tell
me that you've checked "almost every site" you've "been to" for there font
sizes? Cut the bullshit. Requesting that a webmaster correct a real problem
with their site by replying to a post where he stated if someone had
constructive critism he'd be willing to listen to them is not whining. My
request was also preceeded by 'please'.
Daniel Thornton <mc...@x-stream.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38FF033A.MD...@x-stream.co.uk...
> It's not badly set up; almost every site I've been to uses font size 2 as
> the standard text size. Why should they use another size to please one
> moaning person who could rectify it himself?
>
David Meiklejohn
>Justin Van Heddegem wrote:
>
>> Alot of people
>> have better things to do than be flamed by the conservative pricks
>> that hang around here. I can't figure out what some people actually
>> want. they want a new amiga but they don't want it to be different
>> from their old one.
>
>For some that's true. They want a direct lineal descendant of the
>original Amiga box.
That's what I would like to see, certainly. I won't, and I accept
that, because in the real world no company could do that and make
money, for reasons which you pointed out quite well.
It's a pity, because the Amiga feels like a piece of unfinished
business. I would have liked to have seen what it could have been,
given the chance. Oh well!
OTOH, the Boxer looks like it will appear, and who knows what will
happen with AmigaOS? Maybe H&P will end up doing their thing, and
we'll finally get a PPC-native version of AmigaOS 4.0, with RTG and an
integrated IP stack, etc. It could happen, who knows? Then if not
the real thing, MorphOS looks interesting. Or even AROS, even though
it's not intended to run existing binaries, maybe the open source
thing will happen and AmigaOS will move forward, on Amiga hardware,
that way. But whatever happens, it's not something to grow the
userbase with. It could never be a successful commercial venture.
>So, is what AI doing a workable alternative?
>
>I dunno, ask me next year. But I'm pulling for 'em.
I don't see what they are doing as an "alternative", as it's not an
either/or thing.
But - given that the Amiga is effectively dead, and will never be
revived in a commercial sense, then I applaud any interesting new
initiatives which might make computing more fun (like it used to be).
So I wish them well, but I don't feel that what they are doing has
anything to do with Amigas as such.
Marcus
Rick Hodger <rick.thehu...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:Yam2NN.29F...@thehub.u-net.com...
> I watched as Marcus hammered "Re: AmigaWorld 1" out on their keyboard...
>
> > Fuck you. A badly setup web page is a badly setup web page and when
> > someone asks for "constructive critism" saying that making it not badly
> > setup is not complaining. So once again shove it up your ass and twist
it.
>
> He does have a good point though, why do you have the fonts setup so that
> one quite commonly used web-font is small enough to make it difficult to
> read? I'd hate to see Tahoma/1 on your system...
It's set to 16pt. for the default sizes so he has no point.
Coz
>
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:46:21 -0700, Coz <COZ...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >Justin Van Heddegem wrote:
> >
> >> Alot of people
> >> have better things to do than be flamed by the conservative pricks
> >> that hang around here. I can't figure out what some people actually
> >> want. they want a new amiga but they don't want it to be different
> >> from their old one.
> >
> >For some that's true. They want a direct lineal descendant of the
> >original Amiga box.
>
> That's what I would like to see, certainly. I won't, and I accept
> that, because in the real world no company could do that and make
> money, for reasons which you pointed out quite well.
Thank you. It's true.
> It's a pity, because the Amiga feels like a piece of unfinished
> business. I would have liked to have seen what it could have been,
> given the chance. Oh well!
I think you are right. It was a mistake, IMHO, that provisions for an HD
-in- the A1000 box were not provided for. Even though a 20 Mb at that
time was truly expensive. I think around US$350 or higher. At least have
a slot for one. But Jay and I never talked about that subject so we'll
never know what he though unless an interview or some archival doc has
it.
He did say he tried to wangle an EGA emulation with CBM but they weren't
having any of that. Would have been helpful with business software. No
flicker and all that...
> OTOH, the Boxer looks like it will appear, and who knows what will
> happen with AmigaOS? Maybe H&P will end up doing their thing, and
> we'll finally get a PPC-native version of AmigaOS 4.0, with RTG and an
> integrated IP stack, etc. It could happen, who knows? Then if not
> the real thing, MorphOS looks interesting. Or even AROS, even though
> it's not intended to run existing binaries, maybe the open source
> thing will happen and AmigaOS will move forward, on Amiga hardware,
> that way. But whatever happens, it's not something to grow the
> userbase with. It could never be a successful commercial venture.
>
> >So, is what AI doing a workable alternative?
> >
> >I dunno, ask me next year. But I'm pulling for 'em.
>
> I don't see what they are doing as an "alternative", as it's not an
> either/or thing.
>
I meant as an alternative to the lineal descendant Amiga.
> But - given that the Amiga is effectively dead, and will never be
> revived in a commercial sense, then I applaud any interesting new
> initiatives which might make computing more fun (like it used to be).
> So I wish them well, but I don't feel that what they are doing has
> anything to do with Amigas as such.
I basically agree with this but on the other and what AI is coming out
with includes backwards compatibility so I figure that and the ownership
of the name will be something IF it's interesting, fun and stretches the
art. I've said it before, they could call it the Fred 2001 and I
wouldn't care <much> but having something -interesting- with an Amiga
logo would still brighten my day.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> David Meiklejohn
> Amiga user since 1986
Coz
luca_...@my-deja.com
"Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> On or around Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:27:40 GMT, luca_...@my-deja.com
> wrote something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> > In article <c6.Z6.L72DJV...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
> > "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> > > Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a
> > > nice range of these for the Amiga too.
> >
> > Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for Amiga.
>
> Nah.
>
> Just quit being lazy and write your HTML properly - it's not that
> difficult!
has nothing to do with being lazy, I want to spend as little time as
possible.
On the other hand I could tell you stop being lazy washing your clothes
on the washer and wash them by hand, instead... :)
Luca
------
To reply remove "nojunk" from gdi...@hpu.nojunk.edu
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Canal/3184 (Under Construction)
Someone
>
> In article <P9.M9.M722Mt...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> > On or around Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:27:40 GMT, luca_...@my-deja.com
> > wrote something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> > > In article <c6.Z6.L72DJV...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
> > > "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> > > > Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a
> > > > nice range of these for the Amiga too.
> > >
> > > Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for Amiga.
> >
> > Nah.
> >
> > Just quit being lazy and write your HTML properly - it's not that
> > difficult!
>
> has nothing to do with being lazy, I want to spend as little time as
> possible.
> On the other hand I could tell you stop being lazy washing your clothes
> on the washer and wash them by hand, instead... :)
Exactly, I have yet to understand why this anti HTML and site publishing
suites among Amiga people.
Luca Diana
news:38FE505E...@pacbell.net...
> I'd settle for a Margarita on Kauai's North Shore at Princeville.
> Sigh... Been thinking of it since I got back. <sob>
I'll do that for you, I'm heading to Kauai tomorrow for the weekend.
Hey, let me know when you're back around here, Coz.
Luca
Luca Diana
news:39000069...@somewhere.com...
> Exactly, I have yet to understand why this anti HTML and site publishing
> suites among Amiga people.
Beats me.
Luca
Tom Christensen
> In article <c6.Z6.L72DJV...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> > Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a nice
> > range of these for the Amiga too.
>
> Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for Amiga.
They are very good but I prefer Netobjects Fusion.
Keith Blakemore-Noble
wrote something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> > On or around Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:27:40 GMT, luca_...@my-deja.com
> > wrote something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> > > "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> > > > Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a
> > > > nice range of these for the Amiga too.
> > >
> > > Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for
> > > Amiga.
> >
> >
> > Just quit being lazy and write your HTML properly - it's not that
> > difficult!
>
> has nothing to do with being lazy, I want to spend as little time as
> possible.
Yeah, but the vast majority of so-called WYSIWYG HTML editors (and let
us not forget that is utter crap - HTML is not WYSIWYG) make the
process of creating web sites SLOWER than using a normal text editor.
Well, in my experience, anyway :)
> On the other hand I could tell you stop being lazy washing your
> clothes on the washer and wash them by hand, instead... :)
Eh? Wassat? One is supposed to WASH one's clothes?!?!
Jeez, next you'll be telling me people ought to change their underwear
more than once a month!
;-P
Cheers,
Keith
--
You can't use the Internet from an Amiga...
...oh yes you can! http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org
Aram Iskenderian
In article <vC.KC.O72nGd...@Blakemore-Noble.net>
"Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
>Yeah, but the vast majority of so-called WYSIWYG HTML editors (and let
>us not forget that is utter crap - HTML is not WYSIWYG) make the
>process of creating web sites SLOWER than using a normal text editor.
>Well, in my experience, anyway :)
You are talking about editors while mentioning Dream Weaver and Go Live.
These are Web site management suites, and include editors, but that is
not the main functionality if them.
And yes they are WYSIWYG.
Aram Iskenderian
In article <8dl3pn$dcs$1...@wombat.cs.monash.edu.au>
bme...@cs.monash.edu.au wrote:
>[..]t people "interested in the
>more technical aspect of Amiga" actually contained useful information,
Uhm that will exclude you, dear Senator, if that came out loud and
clear, you and couple other PC/Linux clowns trolling here after
exhausting the advocacy newsgroups will have nothing to whine about.
Justin Van Heddegem
> Justin Van Heddegem wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > all gone. everyone with a bit of brains has moved away.
>
> Jason in the ribs a bit and forgot the smiley. 8^)
About Jasons sense of humour. It's funny the first five or even ten
times but a hundred times the same cynical remark, it's just not funny
anymore. Hope you read this Jason. No offence.
Justin
--
Justin Van Heddegem - Student At the RUG - University Of Ghent (Belguim)
E-mail: Justin.va...@rug.ac.be
URL: <None Yet...>
Amiga4000/040@40MHz & PPC 604@180MHz, 150Mb Ram, CyberVisionPPC
6.1Gb UW-SCSI HD Running OS3.1, Linux/APUS & System7
Jason Compton
: About Jasons sense of humour. It's funny the first five or even ten
: times but a hundred times the same cynical remark, it's just not funny
: anymore. Hope you read this Jason. No offence.
I'm not making the same cynical remark even five times, let alone one
hundred. I have many different cynical remarks to make. And they're not
intended to be funny, they're intended to be cynical.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Justin Van Heddegem
> original Amiga box.
>
> doing the grabs on CBM's shell. Basically an A4000 but with 060 and PCI
> slots with a couple of Zorro III slots. Pretty straight forward. On the
> wishful thinking list was another upgrade to the chipset or PPC instead
> of 060.
>
> It was not to be. The years have passed and the computer market itself
> has had fundamental changes.
>
> Technically there is no reason why a sooper dooper lineal descendant of
> the Amiga couldn't be done.
>
> But there are reasons why it most certainly won't:
As purely an amiga fan I would like an AGA chipset with 1600x1200,
mpeg and 3d and a 500Mhz 060 but as a realist, I see that has no
future. But it would be a nice thing to have though.
Martin Nicholson
Damn big snip
I'm really sorry. This was the first news posting I'd made with this
program, and obviously instead of appending one line from my sig
file, it appended the whole damn thing :((
Apologies once again, except to anyone who likes Steven Wright and
wanted some tag lines :)
Worzel
Coz
SHADDAP! I don't wanna hear it!
Coz ;^)
ps Prolly be years. Going to Yellowstone this Sept.
Coz
>
> In comp.sys.amiga.misc, Coz (COZ...@pacbell.net) wrote the following about Re: AmigaWorld 1:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Yeah, and we used to have csam for decent info too. Of course that's
> > > all gone. everyone with a bit of brains has moved away.
> >
> > Ahem, WE are still here Justin. Be careful what ya say! I was poking
> > Jason in the ribs a bit and forgot the smiley. 8^)
>
> times but a hundred times the same cynical remark, it's just not funny
> anymore. Hope you read this Jason. No offence.
>
> --
> Justin Van Heddegem - Student At the RUG - University Of Ghent (Belguim)
> E-mail: Justin.va...@rug.ac.be
>
for Jason to swallow and it's altered his perceptions somewhat.
I firmly declare that inside is that sweet, mild mannered puppy dog
personality that would give Scrooge diabetes. Trust me. ;^D
Coz
Coz
>
> In comp.sys.amiga.misc, Coz (COZ...@pacbell.net) wrote the following about Re: AmigaWorld 1:
> > original Amiga box.
> >
> > I once favored an intermediate Amiga box back when Escom, et al, were
> > doing the grabs on CBM's shell. Basically an A4000 but with 060 and PCI
> > slots with a couple of Zorro III slots. Pretty straight forward. On the
> > wishful thinking list was another upgrade to the chipset or PPC instead
> > of 060.
> >
> > It was not to be. The years have passed and the computer market itself
> > has had fundamental changes.
> >
> > Technically there is no reason why a sooper dooper lineal descendant of
> > the Amiga couldn't be done.
> >
> > But there are reasons why it most certainly won't:
>
> As purely an amiga fan I would like an AGA chipset with 1600x1200,
> mpeg and 3d and a 500Mhz 060 but as a realist, I see that has no
>
> Justin
But it's possible to get a card to do that. But the 500MHz '060 would be
nice. 8^)
Rick Hodger
> Rick Hodger <rick.thehu...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:Yam2NN.29F...@thehub.u-net.com...
>> I watched as Marcus hammered "Re: AmigaWorld 1" out on their keyboard...
>>> Fuck you. A badly setup web page is a badly setup web page and when
>>> someone asks for "constructive critism" saying that making it not
>> badly
>>> setup is not complaining. So once again shove it up your ass and twist
> it.
>> He does have a good point though, why do you have the fonts setup so
>> that
>> one quite commonly used web-font is small enough to make it difficult to
>> read? I'd hate to see Tahoma/1 on your system...
> It's set to 16pt. for the default sizes so he has no point.
Well, it looks fine to me. Tried it in Voyager 3.2, IE5 and Netscape 4.72.
--
Rick Hodger - Author of SimpleFTP
Anti Spam Sig - Remove the obvious
It's not what you say in your argument, it's how loud you say it.
JC
I have Dreamweaver 3 but i much prefer NetobjectsFusion 5 also. Easier
to use and more fun also
JCJC
On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:51:37 +0200, Tom Christensen
<tom.chr...@sensewave.com> wrote:
>In article <8djn51$p1g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, luca_...@my-deja.com says...
>> In article <c6.Z6.L72DJV...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
>> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
>> > Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a nice
>> > range of these for the Amiga too.
>>
>> Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for Amiga.
>
Rick Hodger
keyboard...
> On or around Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:19:14 GMT, luca_...@my-deja.com
> wrote something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>> In article <P9.M9.M722Mt...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
>> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
>>> On or around Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:27:40 GMT, luca_...@my-deja.com
>>> wrote something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>>>> In article <c6.Z6.L72DJV...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
>>>> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
>>>>> Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a
>>>>> nice range of these for the Amiga too.
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for
>>>> Amiga.
>>>
>>> Nah.
>>>
>>> Just quit being lazy and write your HTML properly - it's not that
>>> difficult!
>>
>> has nothing to do with being lazy, I want to spend as little time as
>> possible.
> Yeah, but the vast majority of so-called WYSIWYG HTML editors (and let
> us not forget that is utter crap - HTML is not WYSIWYG) make the
> process of creating web sites SLOWER than using a normal text editor.
> Well, in my experience, anyway :)
HTML /could/ be WYSIWYG, it's just that there are so many different
implementations that it makes it nigh on impossible to make a WYSIWYG
editor. Oh, and I use Dreamweaver 2 in work...very nice, it's the best one
I can find...even has an option to check your HTML for extra crap that
isn't needed. The Javascript stuff leaves something to be desired tho, I
usually end up adding that by hand.
--
Rick Hodger - Author of SimpleFTP
Anti Spam Sig - Remove the obvious
Famous last words: Hey, what does this button d--
Justin Van Heddegem
> : times but a hundred times the same cynical remark, it's just not funny
> : anymore. Hope you read this Jason. No offence.
>
> hundred. I have many different cynical remarks to make. And they're not
> intended to be funny, they're intended to be cynical.
Cynism is a sort of humour. just like irony and satire. But it's true
it's not the sort of humour that makes you laugh out loud. What it
does do after some time is make you sad and depressed and frustrated.
Justin
--
Justin Van Heddegem - Student At the RUG - University Of Ghent (Belguim)
E-mail: Justin.va...@rug.ac.be
Keith Blakemore-Noble
something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> You are talking about editors while mentioning Dream Weaver and Go
> Live.
>
> These are Web site management suites, and include editors, but that
> is not the main functionality if them.
>
> And yes they are WYSIWYG.
Uh, no, Aram, they can not POSSIBLY be WYSIWUYG.
HTML is NOT wysiwyg, ergo there is no such thing as a wysiwyg HTML
editing suite, no matter how much the authors may protest to the
contrary.
Keith Blakemore-Noble
"Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>
> their keyboard...
>
> > On or around Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:19:14 GMT, luca_...@my-deja.com
> >> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> >>> On or around Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:27:40 GMT,
> >>> 1"...
> >>>> In article <c6.Z6.L72DJV...@Blakemore-Noble.net>,
> >>>> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Oh, and if you want WYSIWYG-like HTML editors, then there are a
> >>>>> nice range of these for the Amiga too.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hmmm, let me know when Dreamweaver and GoLive! come out for
> >>>> Amiga.
> >>>
> >>> Nah.
> >>>
> >>> Just quit being lazy and write your HTML properly - it's not that
> >>> difficult!
> >>
> >> has nothing to do with being lazy, I want to spend as little time
> >> as possible.
>
> > Yeah, but the vast majority of so-called WYSIWYG HTML editors (and
> > let us not forget that is utter crap - HTML is not WYSIWYG) make
> > the process of creating web sites SLOWER than using a normal text
> > editor. Well, in my experience, anyway :)
>
> HTML /could/ be WYSIWYG,
No, HTLM can NOT be wysiwyg.
Tell me how, exactly, you are going to make a markup language designed
for full cross-platform compatability display your page the same
everywhere?
Remember, we are talking everything from the latest
SuperDuperHyperMegaMultiMedia PC running is 1600x1200 at 32-bit,
through more normal 1024x768x8-bit gfx screens to 80-column text-only
displays, not forgetting braille rendering and even speech-based
browsers.
No, sorry, HTML can not possibly be wysiwyg.
Heck, you just need to look at teh SAME page under teh same version of
browser on two different people's computers to see that! :)
Coz
>
> On or around Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:30:36 -0700, Aram Iskenderian wrote
> something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>
> > Live.
> >
> > These are Web site management suites, and include editors, but that
> > is not the main functionality if them.
> >
> > And yes they are WYSIWYG.
>
> Uh, no, Aram, they can not POSSIBLY be WYSIWUYG.
>
> HTML is NOT wysiwyg, ergo there is no such thing as a wysiwyg HTML
> editing suite, no matter how much the authors may protest to the
> contrary.
>
> Cheers,
> Keith
Since I almost never even look at HTML when making a web page then what
am I using? Gee... When I look at it it LOOKS like the page that ends up
on the site. <pondering this mystery...not>
Keith Blakemore-Noble
"Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> > Uh, no, Aram, they can not POSSIBLY be WYSIWUYG.
> >
> > HTML is NOT wysiwyg, ergo there is no such thing as a wysiwyg HTML
> > editing suite, no matter how much the authors may protest to the
> > contrary.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Keith
> > --
> > You can't use the Internet from an Amiga...
> > ...oh yes you can! http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org
>
> Since I almost never even look at HTML when making a web page then what
> am I using? Gee... When I look at it it LOOKS like the page that ends up
> on the site. <pondering this mystery...not>
Erm, wtf are yo on about?
Coudl you rephrase your question, please?
You seem to be, afaict, implying that because you don't see the underlying HTML, then your editor must be wysiwyg - did I understand correctly?
If so, then you really need to understand the term wysiwyg!!!!
Yes, you are using a VISUAL editor, but it is NOT, nor can is POSSIBLY be, wysiwyg.
Sorry if that comes as a bitter blow, and all that, but...
Jason Compton
: Since I almost never even look at HTML when making a web page then what
: am I using? Gee... When I look at it it LOOKS like the page that ends up
: on the site. <pondering this mystery...not>
This is all getting needlessly argumentative.
Yes, it is true that the HTML specification does not ensure something that
looks identical wherever it may theoretically be viewed.
But it is also true, due to visual editors that are savior to some and
bane to others, that you can generate HTML in an editor that looks exactly
the same in the editor as it will in your browser, and possible everyone
else who uses that same browser on that same platform, and maybe if you're
really lucky everyone else who uses the other major browser on that same
platform.
But a quick glimpse at, say, your average FrontPage page in Explorer, and
then in Netscape or even the same page in two versions of Netscape, one on
Windows and one in Linux, should help you understand why people say HTML
can't generate exactly the same appearance in different places.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Madhu Surendranath
Aram Iskenderian wrote:
>
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:10:33 GMT,
> In article <vC.KC.O72nGd...@Blakemore-Noble.net>
> "Keith Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, but the vast majority of so-called WYSIWYG HTML editors (and let
> >us not forget that is utter crap - HTML is not WYSIWYG) make the
> >process of creating web sites SLOWER than using a normal text editor.
> >Well, in my experience, anyway :)
Well, I'd like to see how much "experience" you have to make such a
statement... When you're maintaining thousands of pages, I can assure
you,
using tools like Dreamweaver makes sense... but I'm know I'm wasting my
time stating this...
>
> You are talking about editors while mentioning Dream Weaver and Go Live.
>
> These are Web site management suites, and include editors, but that is
> not the main functionality if them.
Aram, Luca - you're *wasting* your time tried to convince the "jihad"
of the value of *useful* tools such as Dreamweaver, GoLive etc... In
their
eyes, "proper" computing can only be done using a text editor!! :-\
It's just rank "jealousy" or something equally stupid... Go back a
couple of years, and you'll see that same "argument" being levelled
at why "Javascript is evil" etc.. yawn. I bet you, if Macromedia et al.
brought out tools such as Dreamweaver to the Amiga, the "jihad" would
embrace it with open arms... Oh well..
> And yes they are WYSIWYG.
Sort-of yes, but as has been pointed out, HTML cannot be WYSIWYG, but
KBH's "argument" is verging on pedantry anyway... For the majority
of commerce sites out, most of their traffic comes from Netscape and
IE, and for those browsers (with out-of-the-box settings), the HTML
composed by Dreamweaver and the like, is "virtually" WYSIWYG...
Cheers!
Madhu.
Stuart B.
> On or around Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:51:45 -0700, Coz wrote something about
</lurk>
> Coudl you rephrase your question, please?
>
>
> You seem to be, afaict, implying that because you don't see the underlying HTML, then your
editor must be wysiwyg - did I understand correctly?
>
> If so, then you really need to understand the term wysiwyg!!!!
>
> Yes, you are using a VISUAL editor, but it is NOT, nor can is POSSIBLY be, wysiwyg.
>
> Sorry if that comes as a bitter blow, and all that, but...
Again, good points, and I just thought I'd throw in my tuppence (two cents)
worth.
Yep he's right, there is no such beastie (I like using that word today), as
no two browsers show html in the same way. And if you happen to use a
microsoft program for the design of your webpages (Mentioning no names in
particular!), it will most likely look totally crap on anything but IE.
In my opinion, the best way to do HTML is using a text editor, too many Web
Authoring Software packages put in unneccessary codes. Take table layout
for example, once the table is started, all that is required after defining
the size of the table is <td> and <tr> yet I keep seeing pages which
include </td>, </tr> when there is no need for them.
Standards have been long established, and when a revision is made, it is
well publicised, yet no one at microsoft seems to follow them.
A lot of times I have came across pages which state that my Browser is
incapable of viewing the page, yet when checking the pages html, it is due
to the fact that it checks for a revision of Netscape or IE, and that once
I take that line out, both IBrowse and Voyager display the page without any
problems.
And 9 times out of 10, this little line is added by the Web Authoring
software, and not the person who layed out the page.
Pah!... I've prattled on enough..
;)
<lurk>
BillWays
--
NTL Customer Support: "I'm sorry, we don't support Amigas, they aren't
capable of using our service".
BillWays: "But I'm using one now, and I want to change my username, but
the page checks for Netscape or IE, and won't let me go any further"
NTL Customer Support: "But we don't support anything other than Windows
'95 or '98 with Netscape or IE"
BillWays: "But that's no good either, my PC has Win2k installed and the
page does the same thing."
NTL Customer Support: "I'm sorry sir, but there is nothing we can do to
help you, you'll just have to stop using superior software to the rest of
us and lump it."
BillWays: "!"
Keith Blakemore-Noble
something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>
>
> Aram Iskenderian wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:10:33 GMT, In article
> > <vC.KC.O72nGd...@Blakemore-Noble.net> "Keith
> > Blakemore-Noble " <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Yeah, but the vast majority of so-called WYSIWYG HTML editors (and
> > >let us not forget that is utter crap - HTML is not WYSIWYG) make
> > >the process of creating web sites SLOWER than using a normal text
> > >editor. Well, in my experience, anyway :)
>
> Well, I'd like to see how much "experience" you have to make such a
> statement...
Oh, enough, thanks.
I've done a few sites from time to time, still do some, too. Including
one corporate site for a rather large company.
> When you're maintaining thousands of pages, I can assure you, using
> tools like Dreamweaver makes sense... but I'm know I'm wasting my
> time stating this...
As you wish.
> >
> > You are talking about editors while mentioning Dream Weaver and Go
> > Live.
> >
> > These are Web site management suites, and include editors, but that
> > is not the main functionality if them.
>
> Aram, Luca - you're *wasting* your time tried to convince the "jihad"
> of the value of *useful* tools such as Dreamweaver, GoLive etc... In
> their eyes, "proper" computing can only be done using a text editor!!
> :-\
Ah, don't you just love it when someone, unable to argue rationally,
decides to try to rewrite what someone else is saying?
It's kinda cute, in a sad sort of way...
> > And yes they are WYSIWYG.
>
> Sort-of yes, but as has been pointed out, HTML cannot be WYSIWYG, but
> KBH's "argument" is verging on pedantry anyway... For the majority of
> commerce sites out, most of their traffic comes from Netscape and IE,
> and for those browsers (with out-of-the-box settings), the HTML
> composed by Dreamweaver and the like, is "virtually" WYSIWYG...
ROTFL!
Yeah, right.
That's why the same page viewed on my PC at home looks different when
viewed on my PC at work, and different again when viewed on the MD's PC
at work.
But then, I guess we are all wrong and you are right, yeah?
Ho hum.
Coz
>
> On or around Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:51:45 -0700, Coz wrote something about
> "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>
> > >
> > > HTML is NOT wysiwyg, ergo there is no such thing as a wysiwyg HTML
> > > editing suite, no matter how much the authors may protest to the
> > > contrary.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Keith
> > > You can't use the Internet from an Amiga...
> > > ...oh yes you can! http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org
> >
> > am I using? Gee... When I look at it it LOOKS like the page that ends up
> > on the site. <pondering this mystery...not>
>
>
>
> You seem to be, afaict, implying that because you don't see the underlying HTML, then your editor must be wysiwyg - did I understand correctly?
>
> If so, then you really need to understand the term wysiwyg!!!!
>
> Yes, you are using a VISUAL editor, but it is NOT, nor can is POSSIBLY be, wysiwyg.
>
> Sorry if that comes as a bitter blow, and all that, but...
What I see is what I get. Period. And I do test my pages on other
machines than a PC and with different browser. My editor, which is the
butt-simple Composer with Netscape shows me EXACTLY what is seen on the
screen before and after I post it.
I agree that really complex pages and animations are a bit beyond
Composer but otherwise I see what I get.
Joe Cosby
> Keith Blakemore-Noble wrote:
> >
> > On or around Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:51:45 -0700, Coz wrote something
about
> > "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>
> >
> > Yes, you are using a VISUAL editor, but it is NOT, nor can is
POSSIBLY be, wysiwyg.
> >
> > Sorry if that comes as a bitter blow, and all that, but...
>
> machines than a PC and with different browser. My editor, which is
the
> butt-simple Composer with Netscape shows me EXACTLY what is seen on
the
> screen before and after I post it.
Oh you aren't noticeably off very often, Bob, so I plan to enjoy this
immensely... :^)
Download some really strange font off the net, for instance something
with really tall, skinny letters, something that very few people are
going to have on their computer. Set the font in your editor to this
font, and design your web page. How is it going to look to somebody
else?
Or for that matter, design it in 800x600x24 then let someone view it
in 640x480x8. Not only the rendering is going to be changed, but
probably the layout, text wrapping, etc.
HTML not only allows, but requires, the browser to make a lot of
choices in rendering. If the browser window gets smaller, text has to
be rearranged, etc. And HTML ideally is written to accomodate a lot
of different browser environments.
WYSIWYG comes from desk-top publishing, where the precise placement of
text and graphics on a page has to be maintained and it has to be
visible to the creator, 'moving a word over to the next page when it
prints' like you would get with older text editors (or like you might
get in a web page) isn't an option where you've got a professional
magazine involved.
It's an important distinction, one that should be made to newby web
designers more. I've seen a lot of newby web pages where a strange
font was used or tags were used to place images in such a way that the
overall layout was trashed in a different browser geometry. It's
important that they understand that HTML is dynamic.
Oh speaking of screen modes, remember I was whining about screen modes
of people visiting my site a little while ago? This one from
yesterday was my favorite:
Apr 21 17:23:47 4-34.dsl.sjc.megapath.net MSIE 5.x Win NT 1280x1024
256 (8bit)
1280x1024 and set at 8-bit. Boggles the mind.
--
Joe Cosby
Here at Microsoft, drive head contention is more than just our promise
to you.
It's a way of life.
http://joecosby.home.mindspring.com
Coz
>
> Coz <COZ...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> : Since I almost never even look at HTML when making a web page then what
> : am I using? Gee... When I look at it it LOOKS like the page that ends up
> : on the site. <pondering this mystery...not>
>
>
> Yes, it is true that the HTML specification does not ensure something that
> looks identical wherever it may theoretically be viewed.
>
> But it is also true, due to visual editors that are savior to some and
> bane to others, that you can generate HTML in an editor that looks exactly
> the same in the editor as it will in your browser, and possible everyone
> else who uses that same browser on that same platform, and maybe if you're
> really lucky everyone else who uses the other major browser on that same
> platform.
>
> But a quick glimpse at, say, your average FrontPage page in Explorer, and
> then in Netscape or even the same page in two versions of Netscape, one on
> Windows and one in Linux, should help you understand why people say HTML
> can't generate exactly the same appearance in different places.
>
> --
> Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
That's why I don't get fancy. It's easy to take off in different
directions when some editors don't follow the standards or argue over
them.
I do simple pages that load quickly. But they look the same on every
browser combo I've tried except old ones.
Coz
>
<snip>
> Oh you aren't noticeably off very often, Bob, so I plan to enjoy this
> immensely... :^)
Oh you aren't noticeably off very often, Joe, so I plan to enjoy this
> immensely... 8^)
>
> Download some really strange font off the net, for instance something
> with really tall, skinny letters, something that very few people are
> going to have on their computer. Set the font in your editor to this
> font, and design your web page. How is it going to look to somebody
> else?
You didn't read what I said, did you? I said quite plainly that I do
very butt simple pages on Composer. I do not putz around with fonts
somebody may not have except in a .gif file.
>
> Or for that matter, design it in 800x600x24 then let someone view it
> in 640x480x8. Not only the rendering is going to be changed, but
> probably the layout, text wrapping, etc.
Nope. It will extend off to the side. The colors are 8 bits. Period.
>
<snip>
> It's an important distinction, one that should be made to newby web
> designers more. I've seen a lot of newby web pages where a strange
> font was used or tags were used to place images in such a way that the
> overall layout was trashed in a different browser geometry. It's
> important that they understand that HTML is dynamic.
Yup. Next?
>
> Oh speaking of screen modes, remember I was whining about screen modes
> of people visiting my site a little while ago? This one from
> yesterday was my favorite:
>
> Apr 21 17:23:47 4-34.dsl.sjc.megapath.net MSIE 5.x Win NT 1280x1024
> 256 (8bit)
>
> 1280x1024 and set at 8-bit. Boggles the mind.
Yeah, and how's about monochrome? 1 bit. 8^)
Duncan Snowden
> HTML is NOT wysiwyg, ergo there is no such thing as a wysiwyg HTML
> editing suite, no matter how much the authors may protest to the
> contrary.
Well, it's, er... WYSIWYPGAEUESBSAY. What you see is what you'll
probably get, assuming everyone's using exactly the same browser setup
as you. ;-)
--
Duncan Snowden.
Patrick Ford
> A lot of times I have came across pages which state that my Browser is
> incapable of viewing the page, yet when checking the pages html, it is due
> to the fact that it checks for a revision of Netscape or IE, and that once
> I take that line out, both IBrowse and Voyager display the page without any
> problems.
designed-in faults like that, espaecially when it's been made with Front
Page. Irritation with MS' deliberate sabotage is becoming daily more
widespread.
--
+ =================================+
|| Patrick Ford
|| Auckland,
|| Gnaw Thighland, NZ
+ =================================+
Ed Collins
> That's why the same page viewed on my PC at home looks different when
> viewed on my PC at work, and different again when viewed on the MD's PC
> at work.
>
> But then, I guess we are all wrong and you are right, yeah?
Funny enough the sites I have worked on using Dreamweaver look exactly
the same under IE5, NS4.7, IB2.2 & V3 (after 5 minutes manually editing
the html just to perfect things).
Ed.
Keith Blakemore-Noble
something about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>
>
Heh :)
I think that just about sums it up nicely :)
Greg Tallent
Wrote:
>As purely an amiga fan I would like an AGA chipset with 1600x1200,
>mpeg and 3d and a 500Mhz 060 but as a realist, I see that has no
>future. But it would be a nice thing to have though.
For about a month, at which point it would become obsolete since someone else
would release sommething better and you would be saddled with a system that
can't be upgraded easily(again).
I'll admit it, I'd love to see the AAA system come out just so that I would
have a new Amiga to play with but very shortly I suspect that I would start to
have the same problems with the hardware being out of date that I have with my
current system.
I'll also admit that I could care less if a new Amiga system used a CPU from a
CRAY system or if it was a can marked 'Yams" that had plugs for the keyboard
and monitor on it, I just want something that will let me run my current apps
and future ones as easily as my A2000 does.
<tsb>
Greg Tallent |Amiga2000 GVP 040/33mhz/3.1 72 megs,7 gig/OpalVision|
gwt at gte.net |Zoom 56k, Syjet, Zip, Picasso II 2Meg, Plextor CD-R|
A well-written life is as rare as a well-spent one.
Keith Blakemore-Noble
"Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
>
>
> Keith Blakemore-Noble wrote:
> >
> > On or around Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:51:45 -0700, Coz wrote something
> > about "Re: AmigaWorld 1"...
> >
> > > >
> > > > HTML editing suite, no matter how much the authors may protest
> > > > to the contrary.
> > >
> > > then what am I using? Gee... When I look at it it LOOKS like the
> > > page that ends up on the site. <pondering this mystery...not>
> >
> > underlying HTML, then your editor must be wysiwyg - did I
> > understand correctly?
> >
> >
> > Yes, you are using a VISUAL editor, but it is NOT, nor can is
> > POSSIBLY be, wysiwyg.
>
Ah, my mistake.
I thought we were talking about general web pages created for viewing
by others on the platform and browser of their choice, NOT a small
subset of pages created by Coz for his own viewing on his own machine
and by no-one else.
My mistake.
Under THOSE specific circumstances, you are getting wysiwyg, yes.
However, as SOON as you publish that website so others may view it, all
wysiwyg goes out the window.
> And I do test my pages on other machines than a PC and with different
> browser. My editor, which is the butt-simple Composer with Netscape
> shows me EXACTLY what is seen on the screen before and after I post
> it.
Good for you.
Now try viewing it with a different screen res, or with a different set
of standard browser fonts, for example.
Now view it using Lynx.
It ain't gonna be wysiwyg.
Period.
Cheers,
Keith
PS There really is no need to post here AND email me the same post! :)
James S. Adelman
> HTML not only allows, but requires, the browser to make a lot of
> choices in rendering. If the browser window gets smaller, text has to
> be rearranged, etc. And HTML ideally is written to accomodate a lot
> of different browser environments.
which refuse to show graphics entirely, browsers which choose to use
odd font sizes, define colours wrongly, draw tables the wrong way
round, ignore sizes set by the person who wrote the html, and a
million other things that the html standard doesn't prevent
browser-writers from doing.
--
James S. Adelman
Harrow, Middlesex