Does anyone know why...
Mark
drive, for that matter. When I first got it. the guy I bought it from said
there was a floppy problem, and sure enough, the floppy didn't work. I
thought it would be a simple task to just get another floppy and this is
what I did. Didin't work. So I tried the DD floppy from my 2000. Didn't
work. I borrowed a friend's HD floppy from his 3000- you guessed it, didn't
work. I thought I was hooped, because I tried the floppy that was in the
4000 originally in a 3000T, and it worked perfectly. After desperation had
run it's course, I got the idea to try a DD floppy from an old external
drive, (A SupraDrive, IIRC) and bingo! It worked, I could boot from it, and
diskchanges were recognized too. This is what I've been using for about 2
years now, but I've always wondered why a regular Amiga floppy, DD or HD
doesn't work. I've read everything there is to know on this subject, and
can't seem to get a straight answer anywhere. All the jumpers are correct,
the cable is correct, and as far as I know, everything else works flawlessly
in this 4000, including the serial and parallel ports, so I hesitate to
think it's the CIAs, the sound works fine, so I hesitate to think it's
Paula... the only other sympthom of anything amiss is that it wouldn't
recognize an A2410 video card either. I've had an ICD 3128 in there, and
currently have a Trifecta SCSI card which works fine. I doubt Z3 problems
would have any bearing on the floppy disk anyway. (but I'm willing to be
proven wrong)
If it were a fried chip somewhere, why would this SupraDrive, which is
intended to be used as an external drive, work great as DF0:? And if it's
not a fried chip somewhere, what is it? I want to be able to use a HD floppy
drive on my 4000, as was intended.
Any help/suggestions appreciated ;)
-Mark
Angelo Vigliotti
news:nfma7.33285$sM.89...@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com...
Since an external drive works, you know your controller is fine.
This narrows down the problem to the internal floppy connector.
I would check each pin to make sure they are in the connector properly,
then after that check orientation of the cable (pin-1) then lastly check the
circuit traces up to the internal floppy connector pins, you might have
a small break here or there.
The external floppy port is latched into the same lines that the internal
header
uses so your fault is somewhere between the external/internal header traces
or the internal connector pins themselves.
If your post intended that you weren't using the drive externally when
it worked but did internally you have a cabling setup problem.
The 4000 is ass backwards to all other Amiga's to use HD internal drives.
Instead of DF0: being at the end of the cable an HD drive needs to be
on the second connector.
James Vigliotti
James Vigliotti
Mark
> This narrows down the problem to the internal floppy connector.
> I would check each pin to make sure they are in the connector properly,
> then after that check orientation of the cable (pin-1) then lastly check
the
> circuit traces up to the internal floppy connector pins, you might have
> a small break here or there.
No, what I mean is I removed the external drive from the slimline external
case, and installed it internally.
> The external floppy port is latched into the same lines that the internal
> header
> uses so your fault is somewhere between the external/internal header
traces
> or the internal connector pins themselves.
>
> If your post intended that you weren't using the drive externally when
> it worked but did internally you have a cabling setup problem.
See above.
> The 4000 is ass backwards to all other Amiga's to use HD internal drives.
> Instead of DF0: being at the end of the cable an HD drive needs to be
> on the second connector.
Well, I had tried that already. Didn't work. Neither DD or HD drives worked
on either header. I have experiences from my 2000 which refused to mount a
floppy unless the main (DF0:) drive was plugged into either the second
header or a straight-through cable was used. I guess the reason I want to
fix this so badly is twofold- not only do I want to be able to use HD
floppies, but the *only* drive I could get to work in there is, I think,
getting flakey. I got that dreaded "Track XX has a read error" message for
the first time the other day. Also, it's a half-height drive and looks kind
of odd it there, it leaves a 1/2 " space between it and the CD rom. Unless I
can find the exact same unit somewhere, I think I'm going to be out a floppy
drive right away.
-Mark
Mike Leavitt
> If it were a fried chip somewhere, why would this SupraDrive, which is
> intended to be used as an external drive, work great as DF0:? And if it's
> not a fried chip somewhere, what is it? I want to be able to use a HD floppy
> drive on my 4000, as was intended.
Well you could hood up an external HD floppy drive, and use it as df2:
This has the advantage of not messing up a working system.
--
Mike Leavitt ac...@lafn.org + team Amiga +
Mark
either. I don't believe I've ever tried, and I'm not buying an *ultra*
expensive external HD drive. I have an HD drive, in fact I have the model
that came originally with this 4000. I want to make *it* work in the
machine, as it should. It worked perfectly in my 3000T, so I know the drive
is fine.
Here's a simple, 2 part question- a) how many layers is the 4000 mainboard,
and b) are there any traces running on the bottom (or even worse, middle
layers) of it regarding the floppy interface? I've examined all the traces
on the top, so if there's additional traces on the bottom, I'll pull the
board and have a look. And, I suppose, if there's traces in the middle, I'll
either forget about it or get a cicuit tester and hunt down the schematics.
Should be as simple as running a wire between 2 points, right?
Thanks for any info, Mark
"Mike Leavitt" <ac...@lafn.org> wrote in message
news:3B69CA41.MD-...@lafn.org...
Marcel DeVoe
[snip]
> ...Neither DD or HD drives worked
> on either header. I have experiences from my 2000 which refused to mount a
> floppy unless the main (DF0:) drive was plugged into either the second
> header or a straight-through cable was used. I guess the reason I want to
> fix this so badly is twofold- not only do I want to be able to use HD
> floppies, but the *only* drive I could get to work in there is, I think,
> getting flakey. I got that dreaded "Track XX has a read error" message for
> the first time the other day.
There is an alternative. Get a Catweasel + Kylwalda controller. :)
This will allow you to use a normal cheap PC drives as an Amiga HD and DD
one and still boot with it from regular and even copy protected floppies.
It will also read other formats with ease such as PC and Mac floppies,
and do so at the *full speed* of the drive at 360 rpm instead of the
Amiga's half speed of 150 rpm when reading HD floppies. You can even use
directly it with ShapeShifter as an HD drive. (it works with Fusion also
but only as a mounted removable).
> Also, it's a half-height drive and looks kind
> of odd it there, it leaves a 1/2 " space between it and the CD rom. Unless I
> can find the exact same unit somewhere, I think I'm going to be out a floppy
> drive right away.
I'm not sure what you mean by "half-height" but I do know that the Chinon
drives were all 1-1/4 inch height drives. When Commodore created the A4000
chassis they gave the floppy bays a 2 inch clearance for two floppy
drives. But the first Chinon HD drives were of the wrong size, they
were the same size the same as the A2000 versions.
This forced Commodore to have to make the blanking plate over the
second drive bay to be 3/4 inch in height. So when you get a "normal"
1 inch height drive to put in there, it leaves a 1/4 inch gap between
the two.
When I wanted to put in a Catweasel as a second floppy drive, there
wasn't enough room in that 3/4 inch space to put it there. And there was
no such thing as a 3/4 inch height PC drive. So for the sake of
"neatness" (my Amiga is in my living room and has to be neat ;)
what I did was what no one else in their right mind would do. I removed
that Chinon drive and I bought a proper 1 inch height "real" Amiga HD
floppy drive from Software Hut made by AmTrade. This then allowed
me to install the second drive "neatly".
The AmTrade "real" Amiga HD floppy drive cost me $100 USD, the Catweasel
was also $100 and a PC drive (at the time) for $20, totaling $220 USD,
all for the sake of neatness.
Later when the Kylwalda came out as a companion to the Catweasel to allow
booting of real Amiga floppies for only an additional $20, I *kicked*
myself. :-(
If you do have a 1 inch height drive, you should be able to mount it so it
is flush with the CDROM drive using the standard A4000 drive bay. Mine
certainly is. And you should then be able to go to any PC computer
supplier and get a blanking plate to put over the bottom gap, as it's a
"standard" size. (there's that "word" again ;)
I still have that Chinon HD F357 drive laying about.
--
Marcel J. DeVoe - mde...@shore.net - Team *AMIGA*
A4091scsi CV64 96 megs CDRW M1764-17" Catweasel FUSION/Emplant
A4000/060 CyberStorm MKII overclocked 66mhz - see "How to Overclock!"
and "DIY A4000 Tower for $45" @ http://www.shore.net/~mdevoe
Mark
Thank you very much for your advice. This isn't however, the route I want to
take. I want to figure out what's *wrong* with this machine, and fix it,
properly. I don't want to patch it over with additional hardware. This 4000
is in near-mint condition, other than this annoying floppy problem. As I
said before, I've searched through just about every single document I could
find on the 4000 mainboad, and not one of them seems to even mention this
problem. I recall from memory that floppy controll is done in Paula, so
that's the first thing I thought of. But as I said, all the other Paula
functions work fine, can a chip be "half" flakey and just mess with the
floppy? I also recall reading that a flakey CIA could cause floppy problems,
but the serial and parallel work PERFECT, as do keyboard and mouse. I'd be
hard pressed to find a hardware problem on this machine, as everything works
flawlessly... EXCEPT when I try to install any floppy drive other than the
one which I (completely fluked out on, and) found to work with it. The
closest I got other than this drive was an ancient floppy drive from a
broken A500 I had, It would find a disk in the drive if I booted the
computer with a disk in it, but diskchange didn't work, not even with a
'diskchange df0:' command. It wouldn't boot from it either, if I put a
bootable disk in, it would begin to boot, the power led would flicker, and
it would reset.
I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, if I knew what to
replace/patch/bridge/repair, I think I could fix this thing. But I hoestly
don't know even what to start looking for- I can't seem to find another
A4000 user on the whole freaking internet who had/has this same problem, and
I can't find any tech info on what would cause it to do this. Again, to
clarify- I don't want to kludge this. I want to repair it to perfect working
order again.
When (if?) I finally do that, then I'll think about getting that nifty
catweasel card or whatever, but I don't want to dump money into a broken
machine.
Thanks for the reply,
Mark
"Marcel DeVoe" <mde...@shore.net> wrote in message
news:ENua7.438$Fn4....@news.shore.net...
phineas
Thus wrote markjd30@[NOSPAM]hotmail.com in "comp.sys.amiga.hardware":
> (feels like crying, almost)
Don't give up yet...
> I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, if I knew what to
> replace/patch/bridge/repair, I think I could fix this thing. But I hoestly
> don't know even what to start looking for- I can't seem to find another
> A4000 user on the whole freaking internet who had/has this same problem, and
> I can't find any tech info on what would cause it to do this. Again, to
> clarify- I don't want to kludge this. I want to repair it to perfect working
> order again.
Somewhere at the back of my memory there is a little flicker that says in
big letters: floppy cable. The source of the info is shrouded in mystery,
maybe Warren Block's site, but there was something concerning the twisted
lines in that ribbon cable, instead of 3&4 twisted, lines 4&5 should be -
this cured a similar problem I remember having some months ago...
Then again, I may have been dreaming - or on some flashback...
[big snip]
Cheers,
--
Paul.
Warren Block
> Here's a simple, 2 part question- a) how many layers is the 4000 mainboard,
Four, I think.
> and b) are there any traces running on the bottom (or even worse, middle
> layers) of it regarding the floppy interface?
Don't know...
> I've examined all the traces
> on the top, so if there's additional traces on the bottom, I'll pull the
> board and have a look. And, I suppose, if there's traces in the middle, I'll
> either forget about it or get a cicuit tester and hunt down the schematics.
> Should be as simple as running a wire between 2 points, right?
Why do you suspect the problem is a damaged trace on the motherboard? If
you've had a short on the floppy cable, it may have burned a trace, but
that's less likely than a damaged CIA or other chip. Those chips can
and do go "half-bad". For problems the CIAs are well up there on the
list of first things to suspect.
--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA
Warren Block
> I recall from memory that floppy controll is done in Paula, so
> that's the first thing I thought of. But as I said, all the other Paula
> functions work fine, can a chip be "half" flakey and just mess with the
> floppy? I also recall reading that a flakey CIA could cause floppy problems,
> but the serial and parallel work PERFECT, as do keyboard and mouse.
Firstly--you are aware that the stock A4000D floppy cable is often
miswired? I have details on that in the A4K Guide at:
http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock
An A2000 I used to use started having problems recognizing diskchanges,
and--I dimly recall--floppy read errors.
Replacing one of the CIAs cured it.
> I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, if I knew what to
> replace/patch/bridge/repair, I think I could fix this thing.
Replacing the CIAs on an A4000 with sockets is something that pretty
much requires special equipment, experience, or--preferably--both.
(And some people just solder in new CIAs. Don't be that guy. 8-)
Mark
seeing a program or something on Aminet...
I think if anything, that would be the problem, because the more I think
about it, the more I recall about my initial conversation with the guy I
bought it from (for *very* cheap, BTW). He told me that the floppy stopped
working after he unplugged the keyboard while it was running. It's unlikely
that that would blow the CIA completely, but it could shock it a bit, right?
I actually have an extra set of cias for the 4000.
"Warren Block" <wbl...@wonkity.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9mm94d...@wonkity.com...
Patrick Ford
> My A4000 refuses to recognize an HD floppy drive? Or just about *any* Amiga
> drive, for that matter. When I first got it. the guy I bought it from said
> there was a floppy problem, and sure enough, the floppy didn't work. I
> thought it would be a simple task to just get another floppy and this is
> what I did. Didin't work. So I tried the DD floppy from my 2000. Didn't
> work. I borrowed a friend's HD floppy from his 3000- you guessed it, didn't
> work. I thought I was hooped, because I tried the floppy that was in the
> 4000 originally in a 3000T, and it worked perfectly. After desperation had
> run it's course, I got the idea to try a DD floppy from an old external
> drive, (A SupraDrive, IIRC) and bingo! It worked, I could boot from it, and
> diskchanges were recognized too. This is what I've been using for about 2
> years now, but I've always wondered why a regular Amiga floppy, DD or HD
> doesn't work. I've read everything there is to know on this subject, and
> can't seem to get a straight answer anywhere. All the jumpers are correct,
> the cable is correct, and as far as I know, everything else works flawlessly
> in this 4000, including the serial and parallel ports, so I hesitate to
> think it's the CIAs, the sound works fine,
Some functions of the CIA chips being OK proves nothing about the other
functions. Find out by swapping the CIA chips, if they're socketed.
--
--
My domain contains .co, not .com as appears in the header.
Patrick Ford Auckland, Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Mark
> functions. Find out by swapping the CIA chips, if they're socketed.
>
No such luck. The CIAs are surface mount on the 4000. (and 1200 IIRC)
I actually tried to find out if surface mount chips could be unsoldered from
a board without too much trouble, so I experimented on an old ISA card. I
used low-temp solder and a heat gun, as someone suggested. The low temp
solder melted fine, and flowed across all the pins of the chips I tried it
on, but wouldn't loosen the chip until the board started turning brown and
crackling. Not good. I've heard there's "square" tips for soldering irons
that fit around the perimeter of a chip, but I've never seen them myself.
Any idea what a professional would charge to do this for me? I'd hate to
screw it up.
-Mark
MadGun68
news:EJMa7.37577$sM.10...@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com...
> No such luck. The CIAs are surface mount on the 4000. (and 1200 IIRC)
> I actually tried to find out if surface mount chips could be unsoldered
from
> a board without too much trouble, so I experimented on an old ISA card. I
> used low-temp solder and a heat gun, as someone suggested. The low temp
> solder melted fine, and flowed across all the pins of the chips I tried it
> on, but wouldn't loosen the chip until the board started turning brown and
> crackling. Not good. I've heard there's "square" tips for soldering irons
> that fit around the perimeter of a chip, but I've never seen them myself.
Are these chips physically smaller than a normal CIA? If not, one option
would be to cut the pins and then desolder each pin seperately.
Steve
Warren Block
> Is there a sure-fire way of testing the cias on a 4000? I seem to recall
> seeing a program or something on Aminet...
Not that I know about. With some external hardware, maybe.
> I think if anything, that would be the problem, because the more I think
> about it, the more I recall about my initial conversation with the guy I
> bought it from (for *very* cheap, BTW). He told me that the floppy stopped
> working after he unplugged the keyboard while it was running.
The keyboard is designed to be hot-plugged, though. Connecting or
disconnecting the parallel port with the machine on would do it.
Mikdom99
> drive, for that matter. When I first got it. the guy I bought it from said
> there was a floppy problem, and sure enough, the floppy didn't work. I
> thought it would be a simple task to just get another floppy and this is
> what I did. Didin't work. So I tried the DD floppy from my 2000. Didn't
> work. I borrowed a friend's HD floppy from his 3000- you guessed it, didn't
> work. I thought I was hooped, because I tried the floppy that was in the
> 4000 originally in a 3000T, and it worked perfectly. After desperation had
> run it's course, I got the idea to try a DD floppy from an old external
> drive, (A SupraDrive, IIRC) and bingo! It worked, I could boot from it, and
> diskchanges were recognized too. This is what I've been using for about 2
> years now, but I've always wondered why a regular Amiga floppy, DD or HD
> doesn't work. I've read everything there is to know on this subject, and
> can't seem to get a straight answer anywhere. All the jumpers are correct,
> the cable is correct, and as far as I know, everything else works flawlessly
> in this 4000, including the serial and parallel ports, so I hesitate to
> Paula... the only other sympthom of anything amiss is that it wouldn't
> recognize an A2410 video card either. I've had an ICD 3128 in there, and
> currently have a Trifecta SCSI card which works fine. I doubt Z3 problems
> would have any bearing on the floppy disk anyway. (but I'm willing to be
> proven wrong)
> intended to be used as an external drive, work great as DF0:? And if it's
> not a fried chip somewhere, what is it? I want to be able to use a HD floppy
> drive on my 4000, as was intended.
>
> -Mark
>
>
I know you say you've tried all sources, but, this any good ?
From http://wonkity.com/~wblock/a4000hard/flcbprob.html
Floppy Drive Cable Problems
Many (perhaps most) A4000s were shipped with improperly-wired floppy
cables.
These cables had wires 3-5 twisted, instead of wires 4-6. These cables will
work fine for a single drive, but will not properly connect a second drive.
To use two drives that are both jumpered as DS0, the floppy cable should
have
both wires 4-6 and 10-12 twisted. A cable with only wires 4-6 twisted will
require the drives to be jumpered as DS0 and DS1.
An improperly-wired or failing floppy cable can cause a high-density drive
to only work with double-density disks.
Regards Michael
aka rockape
Mark
thick, and square with pins on all sides.. Supposed to be more durable than
the old style CIAs installed (socketed, BTW) on all other Amiga models
except the 1200. One of the stupidest things C= ever did, IMO. "Hey, let's
put these really sensitive chips right on the mainboard, where they're
impossible to replace!"
-Mark
Gl...@canit.se
+Warren Block <wbl...@wonkity.com> wrote
>Replacing one of the CIAs cured it.
>> I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, if I knew what to
>> replace/patch/bridge/repair, I think I could fix this thing.
>Replacing the CIAs on an A4000 with sockets is something that pretty
>much requires special equipment, experience, or--preferably--both.
I have done it without special equipment, but I only recommend that to
people that have alot of soldering experience :)
(A very sharp knife, a very pointy solderingpen and a braid is youur friends.)
>(And some people just solder in new CIAs. Don't be that guy. 8-)
Especially since it's EASIER to solder in sockets than the chips directly..
It's worth the few extra bucks, really.
--
| Apollo fastslot accelerators page - Http://www.canit.se/~glenn/apollo.html |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ___ | Email 姣 Sha...@bay-watch.com |
| / __\ __ | Homepage 姣 http://www.canit.se/~glenn |
| __ / /__ / /__ ____ ____ __ | IRC 姣 XT600 @ IRC-net |
| (__/ /_ // / -_) _ ) _ )__) | Amiga - Silicon Graphics - 8bit comps. |
| \___//_/\__/_//_/_//_/ | T h e K i n g d o m o f S w e d e n |
Gl...@canit.se
+Mark <markjd30@[NOSPAM]hotmail.com> wrote
>> Some functions of the CIA chips being OK proves nothing about the other
>> functions. Find out by swapping the CIA chips, if they're socketed.
>>
>No such luck. The CIAs are surface mount on the 4000. (and 1200 IIRC)
Yes, and A600 too..
>I actually tried to find out if surface mount chips could be unsoldered from
>a board without too much trouble, so I experimented on an old ISA card. I
>used low-temp solder and a heat gun, as someone suggested. The low temp
>solder melted fine, and flowed across all the pins of the chips I tried it
I use only a heatgun, and no extra solder..
>on, but wouldn't loosen the chip until the board started turning brown and
>crackling. Not good.
Why not ? ..noone recommended this method for removing chips from a board
that you are going to keep, this method is when you wanna keep the chips,
but not the board.
If you wanna keep the board but not the chips you should use the razorblade
method instead :)
>I've heard there's "square" tips for soldering irons
>that fit around the perimeter of a chip, but I've never seen them myself.
I have seen them, the local Amigashop (that since a year or so only sell PC)
used them for replacing Amigachips.. I also think that elfa (swedens largest
electronic component distributor) sell them for huge amounts of money.
>Any idea what a professional would charge to do this for me? I'd hate to
>screw it up.
No idea.. probably alot..
Gl...@canit.se
+Mark <markjd30@[NOSPAM]hotmail.com> wrote
>Yes, sadly, the "new" CIAs are low profile SMD chips. They're about 1mm
>thick, and square with pins on all sides.. Supposed to be more durable than
>the old style CIAs installed (socketed, BTW) on all other Amiga models
>except the 1200. One of the stupidest things C= ever did, IMO. "Hey, let's
>put these really sensitive chips right on the mainboard, where they're
>impossible to replace!"
Not impossible, just harder, I have replaced them myself, without special
equipment.
BUT, they really should have put the CIA's and the Buster[1] into sockets..
[1] They put the buster in a socket later, but ironically this was arount
the time when buster11 was standardmounted, and that STILL is the newest buster.
Angelo Vigliotti
news:1347.619T2467...@canit.se...
> > + On 05-Aug-01 04:41:51
> +Mark <markjd30@[NOSPAM]hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >Yes, sadly, the "new" CIAs are low profile SMD chips. They're about 1mm
> >thick, and square with pins on all sides.. Supposed to be more durable
than
> >the old style CIAs installed (socketed, BTW) on all other Amiga models
> >except the 1200. One of the stupidest things C= ever did, IMO. "Hey,
let's
> >put these really sensitive chips right on the mainboard, where they're
> >impossible to replace!"
>
> Not impossible, just harder, I have replaced them myself, without special
> equipment.
>
> BUT, they really should have put the CIA's and the Buster[1] into
sockets..
>
>
> [1] They put the buster in a socket later, but ironically this was arount
> the time when buster11 was standardmounted, and that STILL is the newest
buster.
|
That's some small cia's! ;-) The 2 SMC CIA's in my 4000-D's are
about 5mm thick square.
Ahhh hindsight is always 20/20 though they did catch the buster item late
in the game and made them socketed. The CIA's however.....dunno.
There really hasn't been a large number of them going bad out there
save for user error. In over 12 years using Amiga's, currently 7
from 500 through 4000-T, I have never had a CIA chip go
south on me. Just good practices of never inserting anything while
the machine is running, mouse, parallel, serial etc.
Of the cases I've seen, typically the above scenario happened.
Mouse inserted (especially the Commode door one with the metal
bracket on the end connector)
James Vigliotti
Marcel DeVoe
> <Gl...@canit.se> wrote in message
> news:1347.619T2467...@canit.se...
>>
> sockets..
> Ahhh hindsight is always 20/20 though they did catch the buster item late
> in the game and made them socketed. The CIA's however.....dunno.
> There really hasn't been a large number of them going bad out there
> save for user error. In over 12 years using Amiga's, currently 7
> from 500 through 4000-T, I have never had a CIA chip go
> south on me. Just good practices of never inserting anything while
> the machine is running, mouse, parallel, serial etc.
I'm read somewhere that the A4000's ports are all *buffered*. Donno, but
I've certainly done some pretty stupid things to them and they've still
managed to survive.
> Of the cases I've seen, typically the above scenario happened.
> Mouse inserted (especially the Commode door one with the metal
> bracket on the end connector)
Ah, speaking of which, I was trying my Topolino PC mouse adaptor on my
machine to check out someone's keyboard problem with YAM posted here a
few days ago, and stupid me forgot to turn off the power (my Wizard mouse
plug is plastic and I do this regularly) and as I slid the thing around to
get it in, I suddenly saw a *spark* and the computer went *dead*.
Trembling, I powered down the desktop, waited about a minute and
powered on again. Then after a hesitating start, all booted up fine
again. All ports and all three Wizard mouse buttons still working.
Whew! Luck was with me *that* day. ;-)
Gl...@canit.se
+Angelo Vigliotti <jame...@home.com> wrote
>> BUT, they really should have put the CIA's and the Buster[1] into
>sockets..
>>
>>
>> [1] They put the buster in a socket later, but ironically this was arount
>> the time when buster11 was standardmounted, and that STILL is the newest
>buster.
>That's some small cia's! ;-) The 2 SMC CIA's in my 4000-D's are
>about 5mm thick square.
>Ahhh hindsight is always 20/20 though they did catch the buster item late
>in the game and made them socketed. The CIA's however.....dunno.
>There really hasn't been a large number of them going bad out there
>save for user error. In over 12 years using Amiga's, currently 7
So ? user error also burn the CIA's, and the user typically want to
replace them..
>from 500 through 4000-T, I have never had a CIA chip go
>south on me. Just good practices of never inserting anything while
>the machine is running, mouse, parallel, serial etc.
I have had 4 CIA's go bad, two in A500, one in A2000 and one in my A1200.
I also replaced one on an A4000 motherboard that someone else had ruined.
>Of the cases I've seen, typically the above scenario happened.
>Mouse inserted (especially the Commode door one with the metal
>bracket on the end connector)
The main case for me has been nullmodem-cables and such.
Patrick Ford
> > Some functions of the CIA chips being OK proves nothing about the other
> > functions. Find out by swapping the CIA chips, if they're socketed.
> >
>
> No such luck. The CIAs are surface mount on the 4000. (and 1200 IIRC)
> I actually tried to find out if surface mount chips could be unsoldered from
> a board without too much trouble, so I experimented on an old ISA card.
I think the only reasonably easy way to remove them is by cutting every
leg and then unsoldering the severed feet one at a time. Replacement
should be by installing a DIP socket for the old type CIAs.
>
> Any idea what a professional would charge to do this for me? I'd hate to
> screw it up.
It does require expensive equipment, but the installation is quick and
easy.
Gl...@canit.se
+Patrick Ford <pa...@ihug.com.nz> wrote
>Mark wrote:
>> > Some functions of the CIA chips being OK proves nothing about the other
>> > functions. Find out by swapping the CIA chips, if they're socketed.
>> >
>>
>> No such luck. The CIAs are surface mount on the 4000. (and 1200 IIRC)
>> I actually tried to find out if surface mount chips could be unsoldered
>> from a board without too much trouble, so I experimented on an old ISA
>> card.
>I think the only reasonably easy way to remove them is by cutting every
>leg and then unsoldering the severed feet one at a time. Replacement
>should be by installing a DIP socket for the old type CIAs.
What ? DIP ? ..The old type of CIA's (found in A500/2000/3000 for example)
are in DIL formfactor, the new ones (A600/1200/4000) are in PLCC formfactor.
It's NOT very easy to mount a DIL socket in place of a PLCC one.. BUT it's
easy to mount a PLCC socket instead.
There are also hard to find the old type of CIA's as a sparepart..