What good is the Picasso board?
John
We just recently purchased an Amiga 4000T system with a Picasso IV
board. The Picasso96 software installed and we seemed to get
everything working just fine. When the system booted in
1024x768x24bits we oohed and ahhed and the amazing background display
that the Picasso made possible.
But then we realized there was a problem. First of all, the Video
Toaster 4000 doesn't work with it, due to some direct access
requirements for the onboard graphics module. After about an hour of
initial disappointment over this fact, we realized it wouldn't be so
bad as long as we were able to use our paint programs with it.
But then, Deluxe Paint IV (AGA version) doesn't work with it either!
And I also hear that Brilliance won't as well, because the Picasso
doesn't support page-overlaying or something like that.
So really, if you can't use the two main-stream paint programs, DP and
Brilliance, with the Picasso (IV) board, then what good is the thing?
Just for making Workbench look prettier? Who cares!
Are we doing something amazingly stupid, or is the Picasso board a
useless piece of junk? Please respond, because I'd love to get this
thing working with Deluxe Paint or Brilliance, either one, or else the
Amiga 4000T system is useless for photo editing... (In an attempt to
say "screw off" to Adobe Photoshop and other PC paint programs).
I ask you again, what good is the Picassso board?
John Kleinschmidt
Frustrated...
Michael M. Rye
J> What good is the Picasso board?
Have you tried CyberGraphX for your RTG software?
Maybe your programs will work with that??
--
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Aaron Brigati
> Toaster 4000 doesn't work with it, due to some direct access
> requirements for the onboard graphics module.
While you will need an Amiga monitor for the Toaster, it's entirely possible
to dual-head the Amiga, running the toaster softwae on the native chipset
and more modern RTG software on the Picasso.
> But then, Deluxe Paint IV (AGA version) doesn't work with it either!
> And I also hear that Brilliance won't as well, because the Picasso
> doesn't support page-overlaying or something like that.
> So really, if you can't use the two main-stream paint programs, DP and
> Brilliance, with the Picasso (IV) board, then what good is the thing?
> Just for making Workbench look prettier? Who cares!
Deluxe Paint IV and Brilliance are ancient, outdated paint software. Try
something vaugely modern like Personal Paint. Dpaint IV and Brilliance are
hard-coded to use the Amiga's graphics chipset - they won't even support
graphics cards that were out _before_ those programs properly.
> Are we doing something amazingly stupid, or is the Picasso board a
> useless piece of junk? Please respond, because I'd love to get this
> thing working with Deluxe Paint or Brilliance, either one, or else the
> Amiga 4000T system is useless for photo editing... (In an attempt to
> say "screw off" to Adobe Photoshop and other PC paint programs).
Photoshop's a hell of a long way from a paint program. If you want an Amiga
Photoshop replacement look for Photogenics, by Paul Nolan (I think it's at
http://www.idruna.com ) Neither Dpaint IV or V or Brilliance is anywhere
_near_ Photoshop (or Paint Shop Pro, for that matter.)
> I ask you again, what good is the Picassso board?
Photogenics. Pagestream. AmigaWriter. Anything that lets you choose an
Intuition screen to open on. Any of the vaugely modern games. Lightwave will
run on it, with a mode promotion uitlity. (I had Lightwave 3.5 running at
1024 x 768 on my card using Picasso96 and NewMode and Lightwave's support
for an old graphics card.)
Basically, the Picasso IV is good for everything that doesn't:
a) Just open on the Amiga chipset without letting you choose a screen (most
old games are like this, alas)
b) Absolutely require the custom chipset's timing. (The Toaster requires
this - but you can still benefit from higher resolutions in Lightwave's
Modeler and such.
If you're still convinced the Picasso is a worthless piece of junk - you'll
have no problem at all selling it.
Mika Hanhijärvi
>
> We just recently purchased an Amiga 4000T system with a Picasso IV
> board. The Picasso96 software installed and we seemed to get
> everything working just fine. When the system booted in
> 1024x768x24bits we oohed and ahhed and the amazing background display
> that the Picasso made possible.
>
> But then we realized there was a problem. First of all, the Video
> Toaster 4000 doesn't work with it, due to some direct access
> requirements for the onboard graphics module. After about an hour of
> initial disappointment over this fact, we realized it wouldn't be so
> bad as long as we were able to use our paint programs with it.
>
> But then, Deluxe Paint IV (AGA version) doesn't work with it either!
> And I also hear that Brilliance won't as well, because the Picasso
> doesn't support page-overlaying or something like that.
>
> So really, if you can't use the two main-stream paint programs, DP and
> Brilliance, with the Picasso (IV) board, then what good is the thing?
> Just for making Workbench look prettier? Who cares!
Well DPaint and Brilliance are *AGA* software. it's not PicassoIV's
fault if those won't work in RTG-screen. Dpain't and brilliance are
wery old applications and those don't have support for gfx-cards.
Those work only in AGA-screen, not with any gfx-card. DPaint and
brilliance aren't quite mainstream packages anymore because you can't
use thom with modern Amigas.
But don't worry. There is couple of wery good newer and more modern
paintpackages which do have support for RTG screens. First there is
PPaint. PPaint is a wery good painpackage. it's also wery similar to
Dpaint, it even looks like Dpaint. PPaint has most of the Dpaint
features and lot's of additional stuff. PPaint was commercial product,
but it's now free because it's development has stopped. You can find
PPaint 7.1 from Aminet.
Then there is another wery good package called PerfectPaint (or
PfPaint) it's GUI does not look like Dpaint but it also has many of
the Dpaint features and some more. It's also still in development. You
can find PfPaint from it's own Webpage
http://gothic.fr.free.fr/amiga/download.html
Then there is also two paintoacgakes called FXPaint and TVPaint. i
haven't used those as much as those first two. but TVPaint and FXPaint
are good also.
Then if you need packages with more serious imageprocessing features,
there is Photogenics which is much like PhotoShop in Windows. There is
also ArtEffect and DrawStudio 2 which is a structural vector drawing
package.
--
- Miksu -
Mika Hanhijärvi
mik...@evitech.fi
IRC: miksuh (IRCNet: #AmigaFIN)
Team *AMIGA*
Mika Hanhijärvi
> J> What good is the Picasso board?
>
> Have you tried CyberGraphX for your RTG software?
> Maybe your programs will work with that??
No those won't because those are AGA-only oftware.
Mika Hanhijärvi
> useless piece of junk? Please respond, because I'd love to get this
> thing working with Deluxe Paint or Brilliance, either one, or else the
You can't. It's impossible as I said in my first message. those are
*AGA* applications and those don't have support for gfx-cards.
Some of the AGA-applications can be promoted (forced) to use
gfx-card RTG screen, but applications like DPaint and Brilliance do
use so much customchipset features that it just wont work.
> Amiga 4000T system is useless for photo editing... (In an attempt to
> say "screw off" to Adobe Photoshop and other PC paint programs).
Photoshop isn't a paintpackage. it's imageprocessor. As I said
earlier, if you need software like that then there is Photogenics
which is much like PhotoShop. Photogenics has lot's of imageprocessing
features, filters/effects and so on. Latest versio is 5 or 6 I think
and Photogenics is still in development. In many cases Phogenics is
even better than Photoshop I think.
> I ask you again, what good is the Picassso board?
Well as long as you use systemfriendly software which does not need
Amigas customchipset for graphics, then you can have much bigger, more
colourful and faster screen for any applications/game. The only
requirement is that Application/game does not use AGA for graphics,
and that it allows user to select screenmode. All of the newer
applications and games work just fine with your PicassoIV. Older
AGA-only applications and games usually can't use RTG-screen. But as I
said earlier some of the AGA-applications can be promoted to use
RTG-screen, you can find some screenpromoters from aminet.
Eg. MCP can do that for you.
Mika Hanhijärvi
> > J> What good is the Picasso board?
> >
> > Have you tried CyberGraphX for your RTG software?
> > Maybe your programs will work with that??
>
> No those won't because those are AGA-only oftware.
few typos :)
Mika Hanhijärvi
you use some of the paintpackages which can use gfx card, because then
you can have eg. 16bit or 24bit screen (I don't remember if PicassoIV
has 32bit modes)
Dpaint can edit only 256 colour pictures or HAM pictures.
True Brilliabce can edit picturedata in 24bit mode, but the display is
still 256 colour only.
PPaint can also edit max 256 colour pictures. but all other packages
which I listed earlier can open truecolor 24bit screen and edit 24bit
pictures. PPaint can handle only 256 colours but it's stil great
package to be used with gfx-card.
Herbert Klackl
>Are we doing something amazingly stupid, or is the Picasso board a
>useless piece of junk? Please respond, because I'd love to get this
>thing working with Deluxe Paint or Brilliance, either one, or else the
>Amiga 4000T system is useless for photo editing... (In an attempt to
>say "screw off" to Adobe Photoshop and other PC paint programs).
>I ask you again, what good is the Picassso board?
The problem is - as others already stated - that DPaint and Brilliance (which
I own myself) are rather old programs which rely on the AGA chipset.
But don't forget, that the PicassoIV has a built-in Scandoubler/Flickerfixer,
so if you insist on working with either DPaint/Brilliance you can use an AGA
mode and it will be passed through the PicassoIV so that you can use a modern
monitor (meaning 31kHz and upwards) albeit beeing limited to the selected
mode.
If you are not fixed to those programs others already mentioned a lot of good
programs which make use of the PicassoIVs advantages over the AGA chipset.
Bye Herby
Mike
Herb,
You mentioned running Dpaint or Brillianice thru the Picasso IV board
using the AGA mode. Can you explain how this is done. I have this
board and am not sure how this is done I guess. Are saying that these
(2) programs, and others that use the AGA chipset, can be run this way
and be displayed on say a 17" vga monitor?
Thanks
Mike.
Herbert Klackl
>You mentioned running Dpaint or Brillianice thru the Picasso IV board
>using the AGA mode. Can you explain how this is done. I have this
>board and am not sure how this is done I guess. Are saying that these
>(2) programs, and others that use the AGA chipset, can be run this way
>and be displayed on say a 17" vga monitor?
Not much to say here.
Normally it is just "plug and play".
I assume you have the "full" PicassoIV - meaning that none has modified it and
separated the video connector board from the main board.
Just to make sure the following drawing (sorry, I'm no graphician).
+-----------------------------------------------+
| |1
| |2
| |3
| |4
| |5
| +--------------+ |6
+------------------------------+--------------+-+
|||||||||||||||| || ||||| |||||
1: Hole for the PabloII video connector (AFAIR)
2: S-VHS/FBAS Video input port
3: S-VHS/FBAS Video output port
4: 15 pin VGA connector
5: 3.5 mm Stereo audio input port
6: 3.5 mm Stereo audio output port
The lower right part of the PicassoIV is the "video connector board" which can
be separated (if you use it in an A2000) from the main board.
If you have an A3000(T) or A4000(T) it is of course not necessary. So the only
possibility to install it in your Amiga is to select a ZorroIII slot which is
in line with the video slot of the daughter/motherboard.
That is all you'll have to do. From this moment on you can connect a standard
VGA (or multiscan) monitor to the VGA connector (4) and each time you select
either a PAL or NTSC mode it should be passed through.
BTW remove all other monitor drivers like "VGAOnly", "Multiscan", "DblPAL"
etc. According to the manual the PicassoIV will not show any picture with them
(never tried it so I'll have to go with the manual here).
If you still get no picture, chances are that you have a monitor which needs a
minimum vertical frequency of 50Hz or higher so you only are able to see NTSC
mode or... you get a program called PicassoModeTNG from the Picasso homepage
with which you can change the output frequency of your Picasso meaning that a
PAL screen can be displayed with up to 100Hz (not 100% sure about the last
number).
I had to use it after I changed from my 17" Philips (which could go down to
48Hz) to a 15" Samsung TFT (which needed 50Hz+). There I found out that the
standard PAL signal comes out with "only" 49Hz which was to low for the TFT.
HTH
Bye Herby
zipper
> If you still get no picture, chances are that you have a monitor which needs a
> minimum vertical frequency of 50Hz or higher so you only are able to see NTSC
> mode or... you get a program called PicassoModeTNG from the Picasso homepage
> with which you can change the output frequency of your Picasso meaning that a
> PAL screen can be displayed with up to 100Hz (not 100% sure about the last
> number).
More. But I'm not sure if it is 140 or even 160 as it isn't clearly documented
and may depend on if you are using PAL or NTSC. I'm running PAL@100Hz
and NTSC@120Hz.
> I had to use it after I changed from my 17" Philips (which could go down to
> 48Hz) to a 15" Samsung TFT (which needed 50Hz+). There I found out that the
> standard PAL signal comes out with "only" 49Hz which was to low for the TFT.
Z
Philip Kaulfuss
and it does support retargetable graphics so it should work on the Picasso
no problem. I never really liked Personal Paint as much as Deluxe Paint,
but it should be adequate. You should also check out TVPaint - you can get
that free as well now, but I have no idea where. Great program though.
It's still nearly as good as the latest PC/Mac stuff.
--
Philip Kaulfuss | Home: http://www.boehme.demon.co.uk
pkaulf @ yahoo.co.uk | Tunes: http://www.besonic.com/lhb
ICQ: 21755556 | Promoter: http://www.danceology.com
Ant
which works perfectly with my CV64/3D, but only in 8-bit colour depth.