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Roger Earl  
View profile  
 More options Sep 21 1993, 3:14 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
From: r...@outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Roger Earl)
Date: 20 Sep 93 21:26:27 PDT
Local: Tues, Sep 21 1993 12:26 am
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications
In an article, a...@festival.ed.ac.uk (M Smyth) writes:

>hehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehe....
>Sorry, automatic reaction to MB posts...

Ditto.  =)  MB is gonna have to change his name if he wants anyone to take him
seriously again.  I just got a real kick out of the big Mac praising and the
bit about wondering if there are any realtime framegrabbers for the Amiga.  He
pays less and less attention to the real world everyday.

--
 _
|_) _  __   Roger Earl
| \(_)(_/   Wizard Online 604-322-3232
      _/    r...@outb.wimsey.bc.ca


 
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Russell McOrmond  
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 More options Sep 21 1993, 8:19 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
From: r...@atronx.ocunix.on.ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1993 20:51:55 EST
Local: Mon, Sep 20 1993 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications
Charles Marks (cma...@sempco.UUCP) wrote:

: Well from my understanding Commodore has developed their networking hardware,

To push my most used quote again:

                       "HARDWARE IS IRRELEVANT".

  That's the problem with Amiga users - They have hardware on the brain.
The Amiga 'hardware' is perfectly fine, but hardware is useless without
the proper software to drive it.  The difference between using
a computer as a TOOL or using it as a TOY is the applications that one
uses.

  The 'networking' that I am talking about is the software.  Call it AS225r2,
or call it 'Vapourware', it is still not being included with the Operating
System and thus compatible communications software will never have a
large enough market to be viable on the Amiga platform.

  So 'Unix Style' TCP/IP isn't the best way to go - It's a heck of a lot
better than NOTHING which is what we have for 'Native AmigaDOS'.

  At least CBM had the vision to get the SANA-II specification out the
door, but that just defines the hardware layer.  We have a number of
incompatible application layers (AS225R2, AmiTCP, "Envoy") which
slows the development of applications for this platform (O.S.!)
considerably.

: Charles Marks, please address E-Mail as follows,
: from INTERNET: sempco!cma...@wupost.wustl.edu
:          UUCP: wupost.wustl.edu!sempco!cmarks
:                Infomaniac to the bone!          
---
 Russell McOrmond, Ottawa Ontario, Canada       Standard Disclaimer applies.  
     Phone: (613) 231-7144 ,  Freenet: aa...@freenet.carleton.ca
      "Networking is about communication, PEOPLE communicating"


 
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Todd M. Lewis  
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 More options Sep 21 1993, 10:45 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm, comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: uto...@guitar.oit.unc.edu (Todd M. Lewis)
Date: 21 Sep 1993 14:40:47 GMT
Local: Tues, Sep 21 1993 10:40 am
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications
[why did I let him sucker me into this...]

In article <CDKwr7....@news.iastate.edu> barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)  
writes:

>I attended a short demo given by an Apple rep recently, and I was fairly
>impressed with what he had to say.

        [well-stated rehash of Apple rep's demo deleted]

> He said that communications
>is what Apple is gearing all of their long-term plans around.

First of all, Marc, let me congratulate you on the general tone of
your message.  You didn't yell, and you didn't call anybody names.
We can hope this is the start of a trend.

Second, let me point out that this guy is a sales rep, i.e., you were
supposed to be impressed.  He layed out a vision of the future and
told you (sold you) Apple's role in it, and you swallowed it whole.
That's ok, just keep that in mind.

Apple does have something Commodore lacks: someone who can sell not
only their machines, but who can sell their future too.

>   I think this vision of the future for computers is a correct one.  It
>probably surprises no one that I use computers almost 100% for  
communications,
>and I think this is true for MANY people.

Some purists among us would argue that what you do falls outside the ideal
of "communications", though you've made great strides in this post.

That you believe in the presented future is as much a testament to the
rep's salesmanship as to your vision.

>This vision by Apple can be seen in their newest computers,

  [Description of Apple's AV machines deleted]

>Finally, I see Apple, sometime soon, developing
>a monitor with a video camera built-in and making this monitor standard with
>special packages, [...]

Classic Apple evangelism.  You see Apple developing products, sometime soon.
You don't see Commodore developing products, ever.  Perhaps your vision is
somewhat selective. even imaginative.

>   Let's see what one would have to add to an Amiga to do desktop audio/video
>teleconferencing:

       [list o' stuff deleted]

>   So, you could spend $2000 in hardware on an already-expensive $2500
>A4000 and still not have the hardware and software to do two-way a/v
>teleconferencing, while for $2500 a Mac Centris 660AV comes with everything
>(except the camera) as standard hardware and software.

So, buy a Mac Centris.  Then you can hang out in the Mac groups.

>   It should be very clear that Commodore has NO such vision for the future
>of computing.

It should be very clear that Commodore has NO such salesmanship in the field
to sell you a vision of the future.  This sales rep sold you about $8000
worth of technology that doesn't exist yet and you are drawing conclusions
about Commodore based on it.  Do you do this favor for the Zenith, IBM,
Dell, SUN and DEC groups too, or are we specially blessed?

>Networking is at the heart of this vision by Apple, and
>Commodore completely dissolved their networking department and totally washed
>their hands of it by completely turning it over to the third-party companies.

They have taken the most prudent step toward getting their networking
technology to market under existing conditions.  In this case, that means
third-party companies.

>The only vision Commodore has for the future is merely giving their computers
>faster CPUs and better graphics and color.

Wrong.  Staying in business is a higher priority for them right now.
They seem to have taken some rather dramatic steps in that direction of late.

>   BTW, people have ridiculed the idea of a Mac being able to serve as a
>telephone answering machine, but the point is that the computer can do it,
>and do it very inexpensively.

To be fair, people have ridiculed the idea of answering machines in any form
since the dawn of time.  That they (answering machines, not people) happen
to be occasionally useful not withstanding, they will continued to be
ridiculed.  Get used to it.

> [virtues of AV macs as communication machines deleted]

So, buy a mac and start communicating.  Preferably in a different set
of newsgroups.

>   This ability to take commands over the phone could be handy, if you were
>careful with it.  The AV Mac's voice recognition can be set up to trigger
>with a keyword, like "computer".

Ten (count 'em) years ago we got a demo of a card from Texas Inst. that did
voice recognition in an IBM-XT.  It could answer the phone and take messages,
and you could give it voice commands to control software.  I got a demo
of the AV Macs from an Apple rep the other day, and the voice recognition
was almost as good on them as it was on that TI card way back then.  Which
is to say, if I ever become paraplegic or quadraplegic a may be interested,
but if I can still twich enough to control the computer any other way I'll
opt for other user interfaces--at least until the technology gets a whole
lot better.

>  You could give it a secret keyword, then
>use that keyword to make your Mac do things merely by giving it a phone call.
>For this feature to work would require software to be written to exploit it,
>and I expect third-party companies to write such software.

You count on 3rd party companies to make the Mac do wonders, while you
strafe C= for letting 3rd parties do anything that could improve their
situation.  Your double standard is showing...

>My point again is that a $2500 A4000 could not do it [...]
>while, for $2500, a Mac C660AV comes with (almost) everything [...]

So buy a mac and go away.

> ++++      Marc Barrett  -MB-
>   ++      IRC nick: Cyclone  |  e-mail: barr...@iastate.edu

--
Todd_Le...@unc.edu   (919) 962-0101      "This sentence no verb."

 
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Peter Simons  
View profile  
 More options Sep 21 1993, 12:26 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sim...@peti.GUN.de (Peter Simons)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 14:19:35 +0100
Local: Tues, Sep 21 1993 9:19 am
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications
In article <CDKwr7....@news.iastate.edu>,
        barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:

 > [the same stuff as always deleted]

10. *****
 Q: How should I react to crackpot messages?

     Crackpot postings and email are very often religious or sexual in
nature, but sometimes take other peculiar forms. These are in a way
very sad cases, since they are likely reflect bad personal problems or
even mental disturbances. These cases need professional help, and the
net is not the place to try it, nor is it a suitable media for serious
treatment. Flames certainly won't help matters. We can only wish that
the poster realizes his/her own state, and seeks proper help.

     What should an ordinary user do about such postings on the news.
The best course of action is plain ignore them even if you would itch
to respond. Put the subject (or the offender's address) in your news
kill file. [...]

     Following up the crackpot posting by condemning comments is
self-defeating, because many of these ill perverts get a significant
part of their kicks out of the attention they are able to stir up by
their crackpot behavior. In a sick person's disturbed mind even
strongly negative attention is often better than none. Don't oblige on
the net since it will only make matters worse.

        bye, Peter

----- Peter Simons, Germany

                       Jenkinson's Law:  It won't work.


 
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jbw  
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 More options Sep 21 1993, 3:12 pm
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
From: j...@ponder.csci.unt.edu ()
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 18:34:49 GMT
Local: Tues, Sep 21 1993 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications
    I must start with saying something about Mac "vision for the future of
computing."  Computing does NOT equal communications.  And, although we
have been using computers as communication devices for years that is NOT
their primary purpose and that is NOT the way most people do/will communicate.
    That being said let me say what *nobody* has for desktop video
communicaiton -- SOFTWARE!  Video communication over the net is a COMPRESSION
problem - that hardware is elimentary and relatively inexpensive.  Mac does
not have this software and neither does anyone else -- the algorithm hasn't
been invented yet.
    In conclusion, do I want to pay extra for hardware on a machine I
*will never use*?  No, I don't think so.  Do I want to pay for a standard
ethernet connection, DSP, etc so I can wait for video communication to
hit the stands?  I can guerentee you one thing, Marc, by the time video
communication ala net comes around all the current machines out *today* will
be out-dated pieces of scrap metal.
    Not to mention the NTSC digitizing and compression is much easier w/ Amiga.

Ciao...

                                       - Jason

BTW:  If you think ol Big Brother is going to let you make free video-calls
ala net you have another thing coming.  Come out of the woods, Marc.
--
|      Jason B West        |  "If I owned Hell and Texas, I'd rent out Texas  |
| j...@ponder.csci.unt.edu  |  and live in Hell."                              |
|       CS Senior          |  United We Stand America info line (214)960-9100 |
|   Univ of North Texas    |      New: $15 *family* memberships available     |


 
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Andrew Kemmis Smith  
View profile  
 More options Sep 23 1993, 12:30 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
From: s8437...@cse.unsw.edu.au (Andrew Kemmis Smith)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 02:40:27 GMT
Local: Wed, Sep 22 1993 10:40 pm
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications
In article <CDKwr7....@news.iastate.edu> barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:

>   I attended a short demo given by an Apple rep recently, and I was fairly

[Much standard Barrett crap deleted]

>+++++++
> ++++      Marc Barrett  -MB-
>   ++      IRC nick: Cyclone  |  e-mail: barr...@iastate.edu
>   +

 Mark could you please get the hell OUT OF THIS NEWS GROUP! Stay in advocacy
where you belong and please do not waste so much god-damn bandwidth with your
crap! Advocacy is the news group for this - and I for one do not read it bcoz
of the amount of crap in there - so stay the hell away from the useful
newsgroups before I send someone around to physically silence you!

        -Thankyou
        -Andrew Smith


 
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Discussion subject changed to "Apple's Dream for the Future: Communic" by Stephen Kurlow
Stephen Kurlow  
View profile  
 More options Sep 23 1993, 10:32 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
From: skur...@socs.uts.edu.au (Stephen Kurlow)
Date: 23 Sep 1993 01:59:01 GMT
Local: Wed, Sep 22 1993 9:59 pm
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communic
Explain SCSI-NET, I have not heard of this please. What H/W, S/W is required and what services are available with it, ie. is there a SANA-II driver so TCP/IP could be run over it with AS225 2.0?

---
Stephen Kurlow.
Software Engineer, Sydney, Australia. Internet: skur...@socs.uts.edu.au


 
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Discussion subject changed to "Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications" by Paul Cardwell
Paul Cardwell  
View profile  
 More options Sep 24 1993, 2:32 am
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
From: arca...@indsvax1.indstate.edu (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 04:57:38 GMT
Local: Fri, Sep 24 1993 12:57 am
Subject: Re: Apple's Dream for the Future: Communications

        Marc,
              Since your really interested in how and what Apple is doing
        get a copy of FORTUNE magazine July 26, 1993.  It has your main man
        on the over John Sculley (even though he isn't top dog, but is
        chairman of the board).  It's a good article.

Paul

 .-------------------------------------------------------------------------- -.
 | Arc Wave, real life: Paul Cardwell | INet Address: a...@judy.indstate.edu  |
 |___________________________/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\___________________________ _|
 `---------------------------A4000/040,Linux,OS/2--------------------------- -'


 
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