AmigaOS4.0 ?
marcus cornelius felix
http://www.amigaos4.com/index.php%3Foption=com_frontpage&Itemid=1.html
Ive
>so it is coming out? ( hope )
>
>http://www.amigaos4.com/index.php%3Foption=com_frontpage&Itemid=1.html
As soon as the birds can sing.
++Ive++
Clockmeister
"marcus cornelius felix" <mage...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168021075.3...@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> so it is coming out? ( hope )
>
> http://www.amigaos4.com/index.php%3Foption=com_frontpage&Itemid=1.html
>
The final update to the everlasting beta has been completed. Now you have to
wait for new hardware to run it on which in Amigaland will likely take
another eternity.
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/8296/53/
Don't hold your breath.
Gary Beeton
>
> The final update to the everlasting beta has been completed. Now you have to
> wait for new hardware to run it on which in Amigaland will likely take
> another eternity.
>
> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/8296/53/
"The Final Update" has a certain note of... er, finality about it. As
in don't expect any further bug fixed, enhancements, or development of
any kind. Ever. Can't say I blame Hyperion though. They must have
lost their shirts on this ill-planned endeavour.
> Don't hold your breath.
Maybe that's why the Amiga faithful have been so quiet lately...
--
Gary Beeton
Clockmeister
"Gary Beeton" <gbe...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:H9Bnh.562397$R63.544875@pd7urf1no...
I think Terry for one is enjoying his PC or Mac and has forgotten all about
his less then useful Amiga actually.
jorkany
marcus cornelius felix wrote:
> so it is coming out? ( hope )
>
Like a turd from a sphincter!
jorkany
> I think Terry for one is enjoying his PC or Mac and has forgotten all about
> his less then useful Amiga actually.
Add Ventilslob aka DrHiurdo to that list. I think his A1 finally died,
his puzzle-game website has gone down.
Clockmeister
"jorkany" <jor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168295652.8...@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> marcus cornelius felix wrote:
>> so it is coming out? ( hope )
>>
>
> Like a turd from a sphincter!
>
The bottom dwellers will be happy ;-)
drHirudo
Such a short message and so many falacies and lies by the illminded
jerkany.
1. My AmigaOne is in perfect condition. Performing even better after
the latest update - with uptimes for weeks and doing all the causal
computer work and even more - I browse with it, watch movies, burn
DVDs, download torrents, chat, idle in IRC, download from FTPs and
websites, MP3s, compile programs, code, and many other computer tasks
which you can't even imagine.
2. My site is working fine: http://drhirudo.hit.bg - just the index
file seems to be broken, probably during the move to a german server,
which will be fixed as soon as the admin is back from vacancy.
P.S. Typing this from my AmigaOne.
P.P.S. My electricity bill is still low.
P.P.P.S. Thanks to my computer knowedge obtained on the Amiga, but not
only, I work for a prestigious company (first in the brand) and money
is no problem if the AmigaOne breaks - I will buy new AmigaOne
hardware.
P.P.P.P.S. Don't expect any answer from me anymore - I lost too many
time on you already.
Clockmeister
"drHirudo" <drhi...@mail.bg> wrote in message
news:1168717387.4...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> jorkany wrote:
>> Clockmeister wrote:
>> > I think Terry for one is enjoying his PC or Mac and has forgotten all
>> > about
>> > his less then useful Amiga actually.
>>
>> Add Ventilslob aka DrHiurdo to that list. I think his A1 finally died,
>> his puzzle-game website has gone down.
>
> Such a short message and so many falacies and lies by the illminded
> jerkany.
>
> 1. My AmigaOne is in perfect condition. Performing even better after
> the latest update
Last update you mean.
- with uptimes for weeks
Bulgarian lie, your uptime is not weeks.
and doing all the causal
> computer work and even more - I browse with it, watch movies, burn
> DVDs, download torrents, chat, idle in IRC, download from FTPs and
> websites, MP3s, compile programs, code,
Your programs look like they were coded on a VIC-20, not an Amiga.
and many other computer tasks
> which you can't even imagine.
All of which you could do on a PC found on the side or the road on rubbish
collection day, and even better.
> 2. My site is working fine: http://drhirudo.hit.bg - just the index
> file seems to be broken, probably during the move to a german server,
> which will be fixed as soon as the admin is back from vacancy.
You can't upload your own index file?
> P.S. Typing this from my AmigaOne.
Better switch it off before something breaks.
> P.P.S. My electricity bill is still low.
Who cares, mine is too and I use a modern system.
> P.P.P.S. Thanks to my computer knowedge obtained on the Amiga, but not
> only, I work for a prestigious company (first in the brand) and money
You would have had to explain to them what an Amiga was and they can't be
prestigious if they fell for your bullshit.
> is no problem if the AmigaOne breaks - I will buy new AmigaOne
> hardware
Which isn't available and may never be available again.
> P.P.P.P.S. Don't expect any answer from me anymore - I lost too many
> time on you already.
>
If losing time was a genuine concern you would be using a modern PC and not
a cobbled together unstable, unreliable, unsupported and outdated Amiga.
Gary Beeton
> 1. My AmigaOne is in perfect condition. Performing even better after
> the latest update - with uptimes for weeks and doing all the causal
> computer work and even more - I browse with it, watch movies, burn
> DVDs, download torrents, chat, idle in IRC, download from FTPs and
> websites, MP3s, compile programs, code, and many other computer tasks
> which you can't even imagine.
You forgot to tell us how you're making out introducing the A1 into your
work place...
> [...] if the AmigaOne breaks - I will buy new AmigaOne
> hardware.
Just how do you propose to buy hardware that doesn't exist?
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> "The Final Update" has a certain note of... er, finality about it. As
> in don't expect any further bug fixed, enhancements, or development of
> any kind. Ever. Can't say I blame Hyperion though. They must have
> lost their shirts on this ill-planned endeavour.
Gawd, Beeton, you're so full of it your eyes are now dripping brown.
> Maybe that's why the Amiga faithful have been so quiet lately...
They're using OS4 Final on their machines?
Terry
anamigan
> I think Terry for one is enjoying his PC or Mac and has forgotten all about
> his less then useful Amiga actually.
Amiga, dipstick. That would be, I am enjoying my Amiga and you are a
dipstick., still, Clockieboy.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 23:27:35 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>
>> "The Final Update" has a certain note of... er, finality about it. As
>> in don't expect any further bug fixed, enhancements, or development of
>> any kind. Ever. Can't say I blame Hyperion though. They must have
>> lost their shirts on this ill-planned endeavour.
>
> Gawd, Beeton, you're so full of it your eyes are now dripping brown.
I see you're still having trouble parsing reality. It's nice to know
that some things never change.
>> Maybe that's why the Amiga faithful have been so quiet lately...
>
> They're using OS4 Final on their machines?
If that combination was worth advocating then you would expect
c.s.amiga.advocacy to be abuzz with discussion. But it isn't. Quite
the opposite in fact. "The Final Update" very nearly went completely
unnoticed. Why is that do you suppose?
--
Gary Beeton
Clockmeister
"anamigan" <m...@wherever.com> wrote in message
news:106051068683...@news.dccnet.com...
I'm not the clown desperately clutching onto that last Amiga straw like an
compulsive obsessive madman whilst the world looks on and laughs.
Ryan P.
On a complete tangent, and I have not looked around to see if its
commonplace, but the one person I know who updated to the Final Update
had to roll back to the previous version because his software wouldn't
run anymore. Something to do with "strict compatibility rules."
Could have something to do with the lack of praise here...
jorkany
> On a complete tangent, and I have not looked around to see if its
> commonplace, but the one person I know who updated to the Final Update
> had to roll back to the previous version because his software wouldn't
> run anymore. Something to do with "strict compatibility rules."
It's very commonplace. Just check the new OS4 "support" site,
amigans.net. Posts praising OS4 Final are very scarce and even when
they do appear they are presented in the most ambiguous, tepid manner
possible.
> Could have something to do with the lack of praise here...
It's just whetting the appetite for OS 4.01.! LOL!
anamigan
> unamigan wrote:
Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
troll tactics database.
>> On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 23:27:35 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>>> "The Final Update" has a certain note of... er, finality about it. As
>>> in don't expect any further bug fixed, enhancements, or development of
>>> any kind. Ever. Can't say I blame Hyperion though. They must have
>>> lost their shirts on this ill-planned endeavour.
>> Gawd, Beeton, you're so full of it your eyes are now dripping brown.
> I see you're still having trouble parsing reality. It's nice to know
> that some things never change.
Hyperion didn't sink the farm into this project. Their business
continues.
Unlike you they are part of the Amiga community and actively
contributing. The Freiden Bros are contract employees on top of
that. So, either they are living in the poor house or they are
independently wealthy philanthropists. Since no one is making a
living wage over this, IYESHO, that either makes them fanatics or
zealots.
>>> Maybe that's why the Amiga faithful have been so quiet lately...
>> They're using OS4 Final on their machines?
> If that combination was worth advocating then you would expect
> c.s.amiga.advocacy to be abuzz with discussion. But it isn't. Quite
> the opposite in fact. "The Final Update" very nearly went completely
> unnoticed. Why is that do you suppose?
You seem to have caught on, and no one could say that you are
close to any aspect of the Amiga community except of course the
embittered ex-user troll group.
People moved out of advocacy over the years to avoid foul mouthed
ignorant trolls like yourself. You'll find the discussion you are
denying
exists inside the registered user forums of various websites and in the
OS4 support groups.
Terry
anamigan
You are not the world, Clockieboy, but you are a clown.
Terry
anamigan
> On a complete tangent, and I have not looked around to see if its
> commonplace, but the one person I know who updated to the Final Update
> had to roll back to the previous version because his software wouldn't
> run anymore. Something to do with "strict compatibility rules."
Too bad you cannot provide details so others could judge if that
particular piece of 68K software was as necessary as you make out
or whether there are other similar programs available.
You also make no mention if the person you know is technically competent
to turn off JIT and simply use the interpretative emulator which should
still
work with such a program if it worked with any previous update packages.
Can he not install pre-# 2,3 or 4 on a separate partition and boot to it
when
he needs this particular software package?
> Could have something to do with the lack of praise here...
And as I pointed out to Beeton Troll, discussions of the OS within the
community are hosted on moderated forums on websites that
require user registration something you might note is not the case
in this particular usenet .advocacy newsgroup.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> Ryan P. wrote:
>> On a complete tangent, and I have not looked around to see if its
>> commonplace, but the one person I know who updated to the Final Update
>> had to roll back to the previous version because his software wouldn't
>> run anymore. Something to do with "strict compatibility rules."
>
> It's very commonplace. Just check the new OS4 "support" site,
> amigans.net. Posts praising OS4 Final are very scarce and even when
> they do appear they are presented in the most ambiguous, tepid manner
> possible.
Ouch! Would have been nice if "The Final Update" was at least usable,
if not an improvement.
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> It's very commonplace. Just check the new OS4 "support" site,
> amigans.net.
Are you talking about discussions about the same few apps from
a number of people or a plethora of apps by different people?
Give us a hint so we can check your reading accuracy quotient.
> Posts praising OS4 Final are very scarce and even when
> they do appear they are presented in the most ambiguous,
> tepid manner possible.
As far as I understand it, the support forums remain at
AmigaWorld.Net where you have to be registered to
participate. OS4 Final is much like update #3 and #4 were,
solid, stable and nimble.
>> Could have something to do with the lack of praise here...
> It's just whetting the appetite for OS 4.01.! LOL!
Hoping for SMP. A motherboard to host it on and other
goodies.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:19:28 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>
>> unamigan wrote:
>
> Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
> troll tactics database.
It's just an observation, troll. If you don't like the perception
people have of you then perhaps you should have been more careful about
what you said and the image that your trolling has painted of you.
>> I see you're still having trouble parsing reality. It's nice to know
>> that some things never change.
>
> Hyperion didn't sink the farm into this project.
No sh!t. It could barely be called a token effort. Nevertheless, I
guarantee they lost every cent they put into it and more.
> Unlike you they are part of the Amiga community and actively
> contributing.
What part of "Final" do you not understand?
> The Freiden Bros are contract employees on top of
> that. So, either they are living in the poor house or they are
> independently wealthy philanthropists. Since no one is making a
> living wage over this, IYESHO, that either makes them fanatics or
> zealots.
Or more likely it means they have no business sense.
>> If that combination was worth advocating then you would expect
>> c.s.amiga.advocacy to be abuzz with discussion. But it isn't. Quite
>> the opposite in fact. "The Final Update" very nearly went completely
>> unnoticed. Why is that do you suppose?
>
> People moved out of advocacy over the years to avoid foul mouthed
> ignorant trolls like yourself.
Actually, they moved out because there hasn't been anything to advocate
for years now.
> You'll find the discussion you are
> denying
> exists inside the registered user forums of various websites and in the
> OS4 support groups.
IOW, they are preaching to the choir. You still don't get it, do you
clown? Preaching to those who already own an Amiga isn't advocacy.
There is no active discussion group anywhere that is advocating the
Amiga. The reason for that is as obvious as your ass.
--
Gary Beeton
jorkany
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:19:28 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>
> > unamigan wrote:
>
> Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
> troll tactics database.
No doubt just an observation, a valid one at that. Most OS4 users are
openly anti-Amiga.
> Hyperion didn't sink the farm into this project. Their business
> continues.
Yes, sales of Gorky 17 are booming, I hear! Terry, I have bad news -
they DID sink the farm into this project. Even Rogue has stated that
they can't loose half a million euros and five years without recouping
at least something from OS4.
> Unlike you they are part of the Amiga community and actively
> contributing.
They are part of the OS4 community, and they barely even support that.
They contribute nothing to the Amiga community.
> The Freiden Bros are contract employees on top of
> that. So, either they are living in the poor house or they are
> independently wealthy philanthropists. Since no one is making a
> living wage over this, IYESHO, that either makes them fanatics or
> zealots.
Whats the welfar system like in Belgium? Come on, the Friedens claim
they work on OS4 full time, but you know they have other jobs. They
have to eat, and you can tell just by looking at them that those boys
love to eat! Just look at the Belgian tax records to see how much
Hyperion earns.
> People moved out of advocacy over the years to avoid foul mouthed
> ignorant trolls like yourself.
No, they left advocacy and the other Amiga related newsgroups over the
years because the Amiga is a dead subject.
> You'll find the discussion you are
> denying
> exists inside the registered user forums of various websites and in the
> OS4 support groups.
Yeah - both of them!
jorkany
> On 16 Jan 2007 10:10:53 -0800, "jorkany" wrote:
>
> > It's very commonplace. Just check the new OS4 "support" site,
> > amigans.net.
>
> Are you talking about discussions about the same few apps from
> a number of people or a plethora of apps by different people?
Well, in a lot of cases the app they are having trouble running *IS*
OS4. A number of people report having to reboot their machine multiple
times in order to get it working, provided they can even boot into it.
> Give us a hint so we can check your reading accuracy quotient.
I guess your reading accuracy quotient is pretty low then, because I
gave a whole domain of hints. But if you really do need more hints the
other domain is amigaworld.net.
> > Posts praising OS4 Final are very scarce and even when
> > they do appear they are presented in the most ambiguous,
> > tepid manner possible.
>
> As far as I understand it, the support forums remain at
> AmigaWorld.Net where you have to be registered to
> participate.
Registered how Terry? You do know that the support forums on AWN are no
longer limited to only A1/OS4 owners, right? They opened that to the
public about a year ago. When they did everyone was laughing about all
the problems being reported with the A1/OS4 that the same people
posting the problems denied existed in public.
> OS4 Final is much like update #3 and #4 were,
> solid, stable and nimble.
I dunno Terry, from what I've been reading its less solid, stable and
particularly less nimble. Aside from the people who cannot boot into
OS4 there are those who have reported that moving windows has slowed
down drastically. Which is an odd problem to have, since in the
engineering biz this is considered a solved problem. It's been over ten
years since I ran a system where simply moving a windows produced a
noticable artifact. A number of people have even posted that they are
fed up with OS4 - read "The bubble has burst" on AWN.
Sorry, but you do know that both amigans.net and amigaworld.net are
open to the public as far as reading goes? Any casual observer can
visit those sites and learn about the plethora of ongoing problems
people are having with OS4. "She's gone from suck to blow!" as they say
in Spaceballs.
> Hoping for SMP. A motherboard to host it on and other
> goodies.
What's the matter, your A1 not so fast after all? From the sounds of
things it would take SMP to get OS4 up to speed with other OSes.
jorkany
> Such a short message and so many falacies and lies by the illminded
> jerkany.
Ventilslob! So glad you posted, I was worried that maybe your A1 had
crashed wiping out the valuable pharmacutical records, resulting in a
Bulgarian prison sentence.
> 1. My AmigaOne is in perfect condition. Performing even better after
> the latest update - with uptimes for weeks
Uh Vent, it's barely been out for three weeks - unless your talking
about uptime as in on the upper shelf in your closet, best to wait
several months before blowing that horn.
> and doing all the causal
> computer work and even more - I browse with it, watch movies, burn
> DVDs, download torrents, chat, idle in IRC, download from FTPs and
> websites, MP3s, compile programs, code, and many other computer tasks
> which you can't even imagine.
Writing the block-puzzle games? Yes, I do have difficult imagining that
- it's been so many years since that kind of game held any kind of
attraction that I can't imagine why anyone would still be writing them.
> 2. My site is working fine: http://drhirudo.hit.bg - just the index
> file seems to be broken, probably during the move to a german server,
> which will be fixed as soon as the admin is back from vacancy.
Why don't you just upload the file yourself? Oh wait, no need to
answer! It's the A1!
> P.S. Typing this from my AmigaOne.
> P.P.S. My electricity bill is still low.
Mine too Ventilslob! But I run several computers all day long...how can
this be? They are not all the overheated yet power -sipping PPC
processor!
> P.P.P.S. Thanks to my computer knowedge obtained on the Amiga, but not
> only, I work for a prestigious company (first in the brand)
Sorry to hear you got fired from the pharmacy! You tried to get them to
use the OS4 didn't you?
> and money
> is no problem if the AmigaOne breaks - I will buy new AmigaOne
> hardware.
No, you won't. I hate to have to break the bad news to you but the
AmigaOne is no longer being made.
> P.P.P.P.S. Don't expect any answer from me anymore - I lost too many
> time on you already.
Oh did you have to reboot OS4 Final several times in order to make that
post? I understand, that's a very common problem with OS4.
Clockmeister
No, no, no Terry, you are the clown clutching the Amiga straw remember and
99.9999999999999999 % of the world do not use Amigas, including me.
Do try and keep up.
Clockmeister
> anamigan wrote:
>> On 16 Jan 2007 10:10:53 -0800, "jorkany" wrote:
<Snip>
> fed up with OS4 - read "The bubble has burst" on AWN.
Link?
jorkany
Ryan P.
> On 16 Jan 2007 10:10:53 -0800, "jorkany" wrote:
>
>> It's very commonplace. Just check the new OS4 "support" site,
>> amigans.net.
>
> Are you talking about discussions about the same few apps from
> a number of people or a plethora of apps by different people?
> Give us a hint so we can check your reading accuracy quotient.
>
>> Posts praising OS4 Final are very scarce and even when
>> they do appear they are presented in the most ambiguous,
>> tepid manner possible.
>
> As far as I understand it, the support forums remain at
> AmigaWorld.Net where you have to be registered to
> participate. OS4 Final is much like update #3 and #4 were,
> solid, stable and nimble.
As I said before, I only know one person who went through with the
update. He runs CNet BBS 5.10b, which was running perfectly fun under
update #4, and when he installed OS4 Final, CNet refused to work.
BTW, the current developer is looking at the code to see how to fix
the problem.
I don't think an update within the same version number should cause
previously compliant software to break completely.
Ryan P.
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:45:40 -0600, "Ryan P." wrote:
>
>> On a complete tangent, and I have not looked around to see if its
>> commonplace, but the one person I know who updated to the Final Update
>> had to roll back to the previous version because his software wouldn't
>> run anymore. Something to do with "strict compatibility rules."
>
> Too bad you cannot provide details so others could judge if that
> particular piece of 68K software was as necessary as you make out
> or whether there are other similar programs available.
>
> You also make no mention if the person you know is technically competent
> to turn off JIT and simply use the interpretative emulator which should
> still
> work with such a program if it worked with any previous update packages.
> Can he not install pre-# 2,3 or 4 on a separate partition and boot to it
> when
> he needs this particular software package?
He is a hobby user. His sole reason for having anything to do with
the A1 is because he runs a CNet BBS. So there is no other comparable
package. As I said in another pose, the current developer is checking
his own code to see what exactly OS4 Final broke, and to see if there is
a work-around.
Feel free to contact the user yourself. He has been running Amigas
since '85, and he moved to the A1 as soon as one was available to him.
I'm sure he would love constructive advice on how to get his software
running.
You can e-mail him at rinaldo at omegabbs dot dyndns dot org.
> And as I pointed out to Beeton Troll, discussions of the OS within the
> community are hosted on moderated forums on websites that
> require user registration something you might note is not the case
> in this particular usenet .advocacy newsgroup.
As I don't have an A1, I don't have anything to do with those forums.
And believe me, I take everything from everybody on usenet with a
LARGE grain of salt.
Clockmeister
Thanks for that.
Just having a general look around and there seems to be a lot of people
unhappy with the OS4 final update.
Just more buggy shite, empty promises and eternal waiting...
Gary Beeton
> "jorkany" <jor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21783&forum=2#351158
>
> Thanks for that.
>
> Just having a general look around and there seems to be a lot of people
> unhappy with the OS4 final update.
>
> Just more buggy shite, empty promises and eternal waiting...
But at least TerryTroll is happy and that's all that really matters.
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> Ouch! Would have been nice if "The Final Update" was at least usable,
> if not an improvement.
The new memory subsystem is not a major improvement? What are you
smoking?
The update runs fine here. Problems , if any, are resolved one issue at
a time. Most
users have a copy of #3 and #4 on separate bootable partitions if
something breaks
so that they can still use their applications. Not having used any of
the new hardware
or the new OS over the last year or two would leave you oblivious to
such obvious
workarounds.
Terry
anamigan
> anamigan wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:19:28 GMT, Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> anamigan wrote:
>> Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
>> troll tactics database.
> It's just an observation, troll. If you don't like the perception
> people have of you then perhaps you should have been more careful about
> what you said and the image that your trolling has painted of you.
Okay, Beeton Troll. Whatever you say Beeton Troll. You know more than
I do about OS4 Beeton Troll. We are so impressed by your abilities to
know things by never having touched or used them Beeton Troll. If
everyone could live so easily by vicarious third hand hearsay they could
join you on your pedestal Beeton Troll.
>>> I see you're still having trouble parsing reality. It's nice to know
>>> that some things never change.
>> Hyperion didn't sink the farm into this project.
> No sh!t. It could barely be called a token effort. Nevertheless, I
> guarantee they lost every cent they put into it and more.
You should take some time to remember your past words Beeton Troll.
It would help save you from having the Fire Department constantly
dropping by to help remove your size 15's from that mouth of yours.
>> Unlike you they are part of the Amiga community and actively
>> contributing.
> What part of "Final" do you not understand?
What part of 4.0 don't you understand Beeton Troll?
>> The Freiden Bros are contract employees on top of
>> that. So, either they are living in the poor house or they are
>> independently wealthy philanthropists. Since no one is making a
>> living wage over this, IYESHO, that either makes them fanatics or
>> zealots.
> Or more likely it means they have no business sense.
Why is it, that you, Beeton Troll, who have never seen the OS or new
hardware is so knowledgeable while everyone who has used OS4
is such a shmuck? Is it because you are so smart?
>>> If that combination was worth advocating then you would expect
>>> c.s.amiga.advocacy to be abuzz with discussion. But it isn't. Quite
>>> the opposite in fact. "The Final Update" very nearly went completely
>>> unnoticed. Why is that do you suppose?
>> People moved out of advocacy over the years to avoid foul mouthed
>> ignorant trolls like yourself.
> Actually, they moved out because there hasn't been anything to advocate
> for years now.
And all that was left was foul mouthed ignorant trolls like you.
>> You'll find the discussion you are denying
>> exists inside the registered user forums of various websites and in the
>> OS4 support groups.
> IOW, they are preaching to the choir. You still don't get it, do you
> clown? Preaching to those who already own an Amiga isn't advocacy.
> There is no active discussion group anywhere that is advocating the
> Amiga. The reason for that is as obvious as your ass.
Actually they are talking to other Amigans. This must be pretty
devastating to
a loud mouthed ignorant troll like yourself Beeton Troll.
Terry
anamigan
> anamigan wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:19:28 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>>> unamigan wrote:
>> Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
>> troll tactics database.
> No doubt just an observation, a valid one at that. Most OS4 users are
> openly anti-Amiga.
jerkany. That's the type of cheap cheesy shot I am referring to. It is
one of Beeton Troll's standby's.
As for Anti-Amiga....don't you mean Anti-Amiga Inc.
>> Unlike you they are part of the Amiga community and actively
>> contributing.
> They are part of the OS4 community, and they barely even support that.
> They contribute nothing to the Amiga community.
I'm sure Beeton Troll and his pals would much rather use your version
of AmigaOS on their machines, I'm just wondering when the rest of us
are going to see its release.
>> People moved out of advocacy over the years to avoid foul mouthed
>> ignorant trolls like yourself.
> No, they left advocacy and the other Amiga related newsgroups over the
> years because the Amiga is a dead subject.
If, and try and follow my logic here, Amiga is such a dead subject then
why
are such astute industry observers and analysts like you and Beeton
Troll
still here yapping away?
>> You'll find the discussion you are denying exists inside the registered
>> user forums of various websites and in the OS4 support groups.
> Yeah - both of them!
Once again you demonstrate how well connected to the Amiga community
you are. I'm placing you at a close second behind Beeton Troll for
inside
contacts.
Terry
anamigan
> anamigan wrote:
>> On 16 Jan 2007 10:10:53 -0800, "jorkany" wrote:
>>> It's very commonplace. Just check the new OS4 "support" site,
>>> amigans.net.
>> Are you talking about discussions about the same few apps from
>> a number of people or a plethora of apps by different people?
> Well, in a lot of cases the app they are having trouble running *IS*
> OS4. A number of people report having to reboot their machine multiple
> times in order to get it working, provided they can even boot into it.
In any crowd there are those that deviate ever so slightly from the
norm.
Is that "number" of people a percentage point of the total users? What
are you
comparing it to to make a judgement like that. Surely not Windows, which
takes multiple passes by a great number of users, ie. way more than the
total
of Amigans in the world. Or ar you referring to some Linux distro which
leaves out hordes of users stranded from the net or a working box.
>> Give us a hint so we can check your reading accuracy quotient.
> I guess your reading accuracy quotient is pretty low then, because I
> gave a whole domain of hints. But if you really do need more hints the
> other domain is amigaworld.net.
A "whole" domain is not much of an example if you are talking about a
couple of threads where problems actually get solved.
>>> Posts praising OS4 Final are very scarce and even when
>>> they do appear they are presented in the most ambiguous,
>>> tepid manner possible.
>> As far as I understand it, the support forums remain at
>> AmigaWorld.Net where you have to be registered to
>> participate.
> Registered how Terry? You do know that the support forums on AWN are no
> longer limited to only A1/OS4 owners, right? They opened that to the
> public about a year ago. When they did everyone was laughing about all
> the problems being reported with the A1/OS4 that the same people
> posting the problems denied existed in public.
That was then, this is now. I don't see how bugs and setup problems
over various revisions of the OS can be blown up into the proportions
of what you are trying to claim.
>> OS4 Final is much like update #3 and #4 were,
>> solid, stable and nimble.
> I dunno Terry, from what I've been reading its less solid, stable and
> particularly less nimble.
That would include people with various configurations of hardware,
those that installed as an update rather than as a clean install, those
who do not follow directions, those whose knowledge is not equal to
their perceived prowess and so on? Again, does it work out to a full
percentage point of the total users?
> Aside from the people who cannot boot into OS4
A very small portion.
> there are those who have reported that moving windows has slowed
> down drastically.
Yes, now are we talking 68K emulated apps or native apps?
> Which is an odd problem to have, since in the
> engineering biz this is considered a solved problem. It's been over ten
> years since I ran a system where simply moving a windows produced a
> noticable artifact.
Ya, I know, what's your current WoW frame rate? 18-24 or 60-90?
> A number of people have even posted that they are
> fed up with OS4 - read "The bubble has burst" on AWN.
That is your interpretation. It works fine here.
> Sorry, but you do know that both amigans.net and amigaworld.net are
> open to the public as far as reading goes? Any casual observer can
> visit those sites and learn about the plethora of ongoing problems
> people are having with OS4. "She's gone from suck to blow!" as they say
> in Spaceballs.
Sorry, I don't find that at all.
>> Hoping for SMP. A motherboard to host it on and other
>> goodies.
> What's the matter, your A1 not so fast after all? From the sounds of
> things it would take SMP to get OS4 up to speed with other OSes.
Fast enough, but as always on all platforms, speed and capacity can
always be enhanced without hurting the user's feelings.
I'm wondering where that logic leads with quad cores being adopted
by Valve for their online gaming enterprise when just last year it was
too difficult and unrewarding to head down that path.
In fact why are chip makers heading to quad and oct cores, is it
because Moore's Law has run out of steam when faced with the
teeny tiny size of circuits vs leakage?
Please Jorkqany, try and make sense when you argue instead of
making sweeping generalizations from a too small sample,
mountains out of molehills and leaping to unfounded conclusions.
anamigan
> No, no, no Terry, you are the clown clutching the Amiga straw remember and
> 99.9999999999999999 % of the world do not use Amigas, including me.
Their loss, I do happen to use an Amiga and you are still a cutout paper
clown.
> Do try and keep up.
I'm using OS4 Final.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:12:41 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>
>> Ouch! Would have been nice if "The Final Update" was at least usable,
>> if not an improvement.
>
> The new memory subsystem is not a major improvement?
Not if it means that some users' systems become unusable, no.
> What are you smoking?
A healthy dose of reality. You?
> The update runs fine here. Problems , if any, are resolved one issue at
> a time.
a) Nobody gives a shit about you.
b) Any problems that are in "The Final Update" will be there forever,
hence the term "Final".
> Most
> users have a copy of #3 and #4 on separate bootable partitions if
> something breaks
> so that they can still use their applications. Not having used any of
> the new hardware
> or the new OS over the last year or two would leave you oblivious to
> such obvious
> workarounds.
The need for such clumsy workarounds is one of the reasons that I
wouldn't touch AOS4 or the "new" hardware with a 10m pole.
--
Gary Beeton
Gary Beeton
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:30:53 GMT, Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>
>>> Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
>>> troll tactics database.
>
>> It's just an observation, troll. If you don't like the perception
>> people have of you then perhaps you should have been more careful about
>> what you said and the image that your trolling has painted of you.
>
> Okay, Beeton Troll. Whatever you say Beeton Troll. You know more than
> I do about OS4 Beeton Troll. We are so impressed by your abilities to
> know things by never having touched or used them Beeton Troll.
I know enough about AOS4 to stay well clear of it. Which is more than
you can say for yourself. But you're drifting off topic again. We were
discussing your unamiganess, not your lack of good judgement.
>> No sh!t. It could barely be called a token effort. Nevertheless, I
>> guarantee they lost every cent they put into it and more.
>
> You should take some time to remember your past words Beeton Troll.
> It would help save you from having the Fire Department constantly
> dropping by to help remove your size 15's from that mouth of yours.
Please provide a link showing where I have said any different.
>> What part of "Final" do you not understand?
>
> What part of 4.0 don't you understand Beeton Troll?
What I don't understand about 4.0 is why anybody bothered.
>> Or more likely it means they have no business sense.
>
> Why is it, that you, Beeton Troll, who have never seen the OS or new
> hardware is so knowledgeable while everyone who has used OS4
> is such a shmuck? Is it because you are so smart?
I know simple math isn't your forte, Terry, but let me try to make this
as simple as possible for you:
Let's assume that 1000 people (it's a rather generous figure, but bear
with me) bought AOS4 at $50 a copy. That's $50,000 gross revenue.
Now let's assume that only 2 people have been working on AOS4 full-time
for these past 5 years, and that they work for peanuts - say
$50,000/year each. Now let us further assume that these two employees
must pay for the cost of development out of their own pocket. That
would include office space, support staff, office equipment and
supplies, development hardware and software, utility bills, benefits,
marketing, support, SDK production and distribution, AOS4 CD production
and distribution, web site development and support, taxes, etc., etc.,
etc. Therefore, the total cost of development is encompassed entirely
by the wages alone, which add up to $500,000.
If you subtract the cost of development from the gross revenue, Hyperion
took a loss of $450,000.
Those numbers are guesses, obviously, but guesses that grossly flatter
Hyperion. If you want to get even more flattering (I.E. sillier) about
it you could assume that they sold 5 time my generous assumption of 1000
copies - then they would only have lost a quarter million dollars on the
venture.
No matter how you juggle the numbers, Hyperion lost their shirt.
>> Actually, they moved out because there hasn't been anything to advocate
>> for years now.
>
> And all that was left was foul mouthed ignorant trolls like you.
You do realize that you include yourself in that group, do you not?
>> IOW, they are preaching to the choir. You still don't get it, do you
>> clown? Preaching to those who already own an Amiga isn't advocacy.
>> There is no active discussion group anywhere that is advocating the
>> Amiga. The reason for that is as obvious as your ass.
>
> Actually they are talking to other Amigans.
Which isn't advocacy. Why is nobody advocating AOS4?
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> As I said before, I only know one person who went through with the
> update. He runs CNet BBS 5.10b, which was running perfectly fun under
> update #4, and when he installed OS4 Final, CNet refused to work.
Final incorporates the new memory subsystem. CNet is also running
under 68K emulation.
> BTW, the current developer is looking at the code to see how to fix
> the problem.
Sounds like writing to illegal addresses in memory.
> I don't think an update within the same version number should cause
> previously compliant software to break completely.
Possibly. But it may have had this flaw all along and it didn't get
highlighted
until the new memory subsystem exposed it. FW has a patch to make it run
under Final. How is it some great tragedy to need a patch to correct a
programming error/misunderstanding/call? Your friend may roll back
or simply boot from another bootable partition with OS4 #4 until this
problem is solved.
Terry
anamigan
> He is a hobby user. His sole reason for having anything to do with
> the A1 is because he runs a CNet BBS. So there is no other comparable
> package. As I said in another pose, the current developer is checking
> his own code to see what exactly OS4 Final broke, and to see if there is
> a work-around.
First OS4 broke nothing. The application no longer runs on OS4. It is
broken not the OS. A patch can be made to correct the flaw and allow
the program to once again become compliant under the OS.
> Feel free to contact the user yourself. He has been running Amigas
> since '85, and he moved to the A1 as soon as one was available to him.
> I'm sure he would love constructive advice on how to get his software
> running.
Sorry, I used Xenolink for 11 years. I haven't even tried to start it up
as
the internet and web pages are where things have moved to. If he wants
to run CNet BBS now then all he has to do is rollback to OS4 #4 on
another bootable partition and carry on. There is no benefit to be had,
for the BBS which has until this time run perfectly, from upgrading to
OS4 Final is there?
Terry
anamigan
> Clockmeister wrote:
>>> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21783&forum=2#351158
I'm certainly not the only one. AS I asked before, how many users are
you
going on about and is that amount even a percentage point of actual
total
users? I find it extremely curious that you cannot answer this question
yet
you seem to feel very free to calculate the actual numbers when you
think
you are making sense.
Terry
anamigan
> anamigan wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:12:41 GMT, Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> Ouch! Would have been nice if "The Final Update" was at least usable,
>>> if not an improvement.
>> The new memory subsystem is not a major improvement?
> Not if it means that some users' systems become unusable, no.
Systems become unusable or applications? Make yourself clear.
And when a system becomes unusable is it the OS Final installation
or a uboot screwup or monitor parameter being exceeded? Does
everyone know how to update their uboot properly?
>> What are you smoking?
> A healthy dose of reality. You?
Beeton Troll, you and reality don't even have a passing aquaintence.
>> The update runs fine here. Problems , if any, are resolved one issue at
>> a time.
> a) Nobody gives a shit about you.
Be that as it may Beeton Troll, you are not a reliable purveyor of fact.
> b) Any problems that are in "The Final Update" will be there forever,
> hence the term "Final".
Dumber than a sack of hammers aren't you? 4.1 is next on the list after
the release of OS4ppc for the Classic Amiga PPC machines. You've
obviously
missed the fact that there were four updates to the pre-releases version
of
OS4 - Final, hence the "final" not because it suddenly has been
abandoned.
Nothing will change that no matter what you may claim.
>> Most users have a copy of #3 and #4 on separate
>> bootable partitions if something breaks so that they
>> can still use their applications. Not having used any of
>> the new hardware or the new OS over the last year or two
>> would leave you oblivious to such obvious workarounds.
> The need for such clumsy workarounds is one of the reasons that I
> wouldn't touch AOS4 or the "new" hardware with a 10m pole.
Like the XP SP's?
Beeton Troll, even a reality upgrade wouldn't help you.
Terry
anamigan
> anamigan wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:30:53 GMT, Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> anamigan wrote:
>>>> Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
>>>> troll tactics database.
>>> It's just an observation, troll. If you don't like the perception
>>> people have of you then perhaps you should have been more careful about
>>> what you said and the image that your trolling has painted of you.
>> Okay, Beeton Troll. Whatever you say Beeton Troll. You know more than
>> I do about OS4 Beeton Troll. We are so impressed by your abilities to
>> know things by never having touched or used them Beeton Troll.
> I know enough about AOS4 to stay well clear of it. Which is more than
> you can say for yourself. But you're drifting off topic again. We were
> discussing your unamiganess, not your lack of good judgement.
I thought we were discussing your ignorance Beeton Troll.
>>> No sh!t. It could barely be called a token effort. Nevertheless, I
>>> guarantee they lost every cent they put into it and more.
>> You should take some time to remember your past words Beeton Troll.
>> It would help save you from having the Fire Department constantly
>> dropping by to help remove your size 15's from that mouth of yours.
> Please provide a link showing where I have said any different.
Exactly, hence the frequent Fire Department visits to remove those size
15's from your clown mouth.
>>> What part of "Final" do you not understand?
>> What part of 4.0 don't you understand Beeton Troll?
> What I don't understand about 4.0 is why anybody bothered.
The only people bothered seem to be the Trolls like yourself.
>>> Or more likely it means they have no business sense.
>> Why is it, that you, Beeton Troll, who have never seen the OS or new
>> hardware is so knowledgeable while everyone who has used OS4
>> is such a shmuck? Is it because you are so smart?
> I know simple math isn't your forte, Terry, but let me try to make this
> as simple as possible for you:
Wow, if guesses were fishes.
> Let's assume that 1000 people (it's a rather generous figure, but bear
> with me) bought AOS4 at $50 a copy. That's $50,000 gross revenue.
Or 2000@$100 a copy. $200,000.
> Now let's assume that only 2 people have been working on AOS4 full-time
> for these past 5 years, and that they work for peanuts - say
> $50,000/year each.
Or $25,000 as they are independent contracters.
> Now let us further assume that these two employees
> must pay for the cost of development out of their own pocket. That
> would include office space, support staff, office equipment and
> supplies, development hardware and software, utility bills, benefits,
> marketing, support, SDK production and distribution, AOS4 CD production
> and distribution, web site development and support, taxes, etc., etc.,
> etc. Therefore, the total cost of development is encompassed entirely
> by the wages alone, which add up to $500,000.
Hmmm....that would be $250,000 by my count.
> If you subtract the cost of development from the gross revenue, Hyperion
> took a loss of $450,000.
Or less if you used my equally relevant and correct guesses.
> Those numbers are guesses, obviously, but guesses that grossly flatter
> Hyperion. If you want to get even more flattering (I.E. sillier) about
> it you could assume that they sold 5 time my generous assumption of 1000
> copies - then they would only have lost a quarter million dollars on the
> venture.
Don't bother to enter in any consideration for an embedded product
being worked on concurrently with the re-writing of AmigaOS or any other
projects that may be on the boards within Hyperion.
> No matter how you juggle the numbers, Hyperion lost their shirt.
Too bad they still seem to be in business, a business that is not solely
or exclusively dedicated to OS4 which they support as much being
Amigans as a business proposition.
>>> Actually, they moved out because there hasn't been anything to advocate
>>> for years now.
>> And all that was left was foul mouthed ignorant trolls like you.
> You do realize that you include yourself in that group, do you not?
I can provide countless examples of your potty mouthed tirades while
you can do nothing of the sort.
Somehow it has never sunk in that the guy who actually uses the OS
and the hardware isn't the troll in .advocacy, that would be you
Beeton Troll. Badmouthing everything you can think of and when you
can't think of anything then badmouthing the users.
>>> IOW, they are preaching to the choir. You still don't get it, do you
>>> clown? Preaching to those who already own an Amiga isn't advocacy.
>>> There is no active discussion group anywhere that is advocating the
>>> Amiga. The reason for that is as obvious as your ass.
>> Actually they are talking to other Amigans.
> Which isn't advocacy. Why is nobody advocating AOS4?
No hardware. Are you "stoopid" too Beeton Troll?
Terry
Clockmeister
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:32:10 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>
>> No, no, no Terry, you are the clown clutching the Amiga straw remember
>> and
>> 99.9999999999999999 % of the world do not use Amigas, including me.
>
> Their loss, I do happen to use an Amiga and you are still a cutout paper
> clown.
Nope. OS4 final is a disaster by most accounts, and that is coming from the
users themselves you clown.
>> Do try and keep up.
>
> I'm using OS4 Final.
>
Can you honestly and truthfully say that you aren't disappointed with the
final product?
Be honest now...
Clockmeister
XP service packs don't require multiple installs on different partitions you
clown.
Clockmeister
What is this "new memory subsystem" that you keep crowing on about and what
benefits does it offer (assuming OS4 final it leaves you with a useable
system)?
anamigan
> "anamigan" <m...@wherever.com> wrote in message
> news:106118882759...@news.dccnet.com...
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:32:10 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>>> No, no, no Terry, you are the clown clutching the Amiga
>>> straw remember and 99.9999999999999999 % of the
>>> world do not use Amigas, including me.
>> Their loss, I do happen to use an Amiga and you
>> are still a cutout paper clown.
> Nope. OS4 final is a disaster by most accounts,
> and that is coming from the users themselves you clown.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22093&forum=32
>>> Do try and keep up.
>> I'm using OS4 Final.
> Can you honestly and truthfully say that you aren't
> disappointed with the final product?
Are you an idiot as well as a clown? I use my 渙1 as my only
computer at the moment and have been doing so for 6 months since
my disasterous attempt to put BSD on the Sparc Ultra. I never
felt the need to reinstall Solaris 10 or activate any of my pc's.
> Be honest now...
Right, okay, it's been a little chill in my computer room without
a pc running and now I have to wear a fleecy.
Terry
anamigan
> XP service packs don't require multiple installs
> on different partitions you clown.
I noticed, as did everyone else, that you failed to address
the actual OS4 Final issues that were raised.
Please tell the crowd what "restore" points are for in the XP
paradigm.
Please tell the crowd why a six month "reinstall" is a good
maintenance strategy for XP.
Please explain why there is a range of 5 minutes to several
hours for an XP SP upgrade.
Please explain to the assembled masses why such a superior
OS.... ooops sorry Clockie, you wouldn't know would you.
Terry
anamigan
> What is this "new memory subsystem" that you keep
> crowing on about and what benefits does it offer
> (assuming OS4 final it leaves you with a useable
> system)?
Crowing on about, is that one of the Beeton Trolls weasel
phrases that you are required to use when referring to
advocacy done by an Amigan?
Again, OS4 Final works for the vast majority of users on
the first go. Simply follow install instructions or get
somebody knowledgeable to help you. Any aspersions
cast on that fact are not supported by even a percentage
point of total users of OS4 Final.
For your general enlightenment I have added a few URL's
below that may shed some light on your apparent pack
mentality troll based ignorance.
Memory system (3 pages):
http://www.os4.hyperion-entertainment.com/index.php%3Foption=content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=.html
Memory system update:
http://www.os4.hyperion-entertainment.com/index.php%3Foption=content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=.html
Plain old facts that you might want to consider:
http://www.intuitionbase.com/static.php?section=en_os4up4-review
Feature set beyond Update #4:
http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/news/2006-12-24-feat
OEM possibilities:
http://www.os4.hyperion-entertainment.com/index.php%3Foption=content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=.html
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:02:46 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>
>> Nope. OS4 final is a disaster by most accounts,
>> and that is coming from the users themselves you clown.
>
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22093&forum=32
It's interesting that his list of working software is shorter than his
non-working list.
>> Can you honestly and truthfully say that you aren't
>> disappointed with the final product?
>
> Are you an idiot as well as a clown? I use my 渙1 as my only
> computer at the moment and have been doing so for 6 months since
> my disasterous attempt to put BSD on the Sparc Ultra. I never
> felt the need to reinstall Solaris 10 or activate any of my pc's.
>
>> Be honest now...
>
> Right, okay, it's been a little chill in my computer room without
> a pc running and now I have to wear a fleecy.
Nice dodge. Just answer the question for a change. Are you
disappointed with "The Final Update"? Yes or no?
--
Gary Beeton
Gary Beeton
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:15:52 GMT, Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> Not if it means that some users' systems become unusable, no.
>
> Systems become unusable or applications? Make yourself clear.
I did. Can't you read?
> And when a system becomes unusable is it the OS Final installation
> or a uboot screwup or monitor parameter being exceeded? Does
> everyone know how to update their uboot properly?
Who cares. Busted is busted. You shouldn't need a comp sci degree to
install a simple OS upgrade. The fact that the installer can't figure
that out for you is just one more indicator of the immaturity of the
product.
>> A healthy dose of reality. You?
>
> Beeton Troll, you and reality don't even have a passing aquaintence.
Too funny coming from you!
>> a) Nobody gives a shit about you.
>
> Be that as it may Beeton Troll, you are not a reliable purveyor of fact.
I am more reliable than you by a country mile.
>> b) Any problems that are in "The Final Update" will be there forever,
>> hence the term "Final".
>
> Dumber than a sack of hammers aren't you? 4.1 is next on the list after
> the release of OS4ppc for the Classic Amiga PPC machines. You've
> obviously
> missed the fact that there were four updates to the pre-releases version
> of
> OS4 - Final, hence the "final" not because it suddenly has been
> abandoned.
Dream on, little troll, if it makes you feel any better. I prefer to
take Hyperion's word at face value.
>> The need for such clumsy workarounds is one of the reasons that I
>> wouldn't touch AOS4 or the "new" hardware with a 10m pole.
>
> Like the XP SP's?
No, not at all. XP SPs do not require multiple boot partitions.
--
Gary Beeton
Gary Beeton
> On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:16:42 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>
>> Clockmeister wrote:
>
>>> Just more buggy shite, empty promises and eternal waiting...
>
>> But at least TerryTroll is happy and that's all that really matters.
>
> I'm certainly not the only one. AS I asked before, how many users are
> you
> going on about and is that amount even a percentage point of actual
> total
> users?
It would only take 2 or 3 disgruntled users to represent a percentage
point these days. There are far more than that voicing their beefs on
amigaworld.net.
--
Gary Beeton
Gary Beeton
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:12:43 GMT, Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> I know enough about AOS4 to stay well clear of it. Which is more than
>> you can say for yourself. But you're drifting off topic again. We were
>> discussing your unamiganess, not your lack of good judgement.
>
> I thought we were discussing your ignorance Beeton Troll.
That just goes to show how clued out you are.
>> Please provide a link showing where I have said any different.
>
> Exactly, hence the frequent Fire Department visits to remove those size
> 15's from your clown mouth.
So you think that 'putting one's foot in one's mouth' means to be
consistent and accurate?? You must be constantly breaking your nose on
'Exit Only' doors.
>> What I don't understand about 4.0 is why anybody bothered.
>
> The only people bothered seem to be the Trolls like yourself.
Learn to read, troll. Bothered as in 'Why would Hyperion bother to
waste their time and money on a product that was clearly doomed from the
start?'. Bothered as in 'Why would any user bother with AOS4 when there
are far better products on the market?'.
>> Let's assume that 1000 people (it's a rather generous figure, but bear
>> with me) bought AOS4 at $50 a copy. That's $50,000 gross revenue.
>
> Or 2000@$100 a copy. $200,000.
LOL! Yah, sure, whatever. Dream on, little dude.
>> Now let's assume that only 2 people have been working on AOS4 full-time
>> for these past 5 years, and that they work for peanuts - say
>> $50,000/year each.
>
> Or $25,000 as they are independent contracters.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yah, good one! No half-ways competent software
developer would work for $50,000/year, much less $25k. Mind you, nobody
could accuse AOS4 developers of being competent, so maybe you have a
point there...
As for AOS4 developers being independent contractors, you do realize
that independent contractors have to pay for their own benefits, pension
plans, office space and other expenses out of their own pockets? Thus
they tend to charge *more* for their services than the average salaried
employee, not less.
>> Now let us further assume that these two employees
>> must pay for the cost of development out of their own pocket. That
>> would include office space, support staff, office equipment and
>> supplies, development hardware and software, utility bills, benefits,
>> marketing, support, SDK production and distribution, AOS4 CD production
>> and distribution, web site development and support, taxes, etc., etc.,
>> etc. Therefore, the total cost of development is encompassed entirely
>> by the wages alone, which add up to $500,000.
>
> Hmmm....that would be $250,000 by my count.
Sure, using incompetent welfare-case software developers.
>> If you subtract the cost of development from the gross revenue, Hyperion
>> took a loss of $450,000.
>
> Or less if you used my equally relevant and correct guesses.
True. Using your ridiculously laughable assumptions, Hyperion only lost
50 grand. You're not really helping your argument here, Terry.
>> Those numbers are guesses, obviously, but guesses that grossly flatter
>> Hyperion. If you want to get even more flattering (I.E. sillier) about
>> it you could assume that they sold 5 time my generous assumption of 1000
>> copies - then they would only have lost a quarter million dollars on the
>> venture.
>
> Don't bother to enter in any consideration for an embedded product
> being worked on concurrently with the re-writing of AmigaOS or any other
> projects that may be on the boards within Hyperion.
Amiga Inc. own the rights to any embedded products (of which there are
none). And needing to subsidize AOS4 with their PC products isn't
exactly a gold star for Hyperion's respectability, is it?
>> No matter how you juggle the numbers, Hyperion lost their shirt.
>
> Too bad they still seem to be in business, a business that is not solely
> or exclusively dedicated to OS4 which they support as much being
> Amigans as a business proposition.
Thank goodness for PCs saving the day!
>> You do realize that you include yourself in that group, do you not?
>
> I can provide countless examples of your potty mouthed tirades while
> you can do nothing of the sort.
That is correct, I cannot provide examples of my "potty mouthed
tirades". It requires someone as dishonest as you to do that. *Your*
foul mouthed tirades, OTOH, are well documented.
> Somehow it has never sunk in that the guy who actually uses the OS
> and the hardware isn't the troll in .advocacy, that would be you
> Beeton Troll. Badmouthing everything you can think of and when you
> can't think of anything then badmouthing the users.
The only thing I badmouth is TerryTroll. I can't help it, I'm too
honest to do otherwise.
>> Which isn't advocacy. Why is nobody advocating AOS4?
>
> No hardware. Are you "stoopid" too Beeton Troll?
That's funny, I could have sworn that you claim to be running AOS4. But
now you claim that there is no hardware that it will run on. So which
claim are you lying about then?
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:02:46 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>>> Nope. OS4 final is a disaster by most accounts,
>>> and that is coming from the users themselves you clown.
>> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22093&forum=32
> It's interesting that his list of working software is shorter than his
> non-working list.
It's interesting that you cannot stay on topic, ie. properly written
applications run well under OS4 Final.
>>> Can you honestly and truthfully say that you aren't
>>> disappointed with the final product?
>> Are you an idiot as well as a clown? I use my 渙1 as my only
>> computer at the moment and have been doing so for 6 months since
>> my disasterous attempt to put BSD on the Sparc Ultra. I never
>> felt the need to reinstall Solaris 10 or activate any of my pc's.
What no comment, don't you want to bring up my Amiga
peripheral strategy which has now been abandoned since
OS4 Final/Ibrowse 2.3 and so on?
>>> Be honest now...
>> Right, okay, it's been a little chill in my computer room without
>> a pc running and now I have to wear a fleecy.
> Nice dodge. Just answer the question for a change. Are you
> disappointed with "The Final Update"? Yes or no?
No, I am very happy with OS4.
Terry
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:15:52 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> Not if it means that some users' systems become unusable, no.
>> Systems become unusable or applications? Make yourself clear.
> I did. Can't you read?
If it is an application taking down the system then there are
several viable strategies. If it is the OS, which it is not, then
there are fewer options.
I see you are now recycling Win95/98 arguments against the
Amiga. Good strategy Beeton Troll.
>> And when a system becomes unusable is it the OS Final installation
>> or a uboot screwup or monitor parameter being exceeded? Does
>> everyone know how to update their uboot properly?
> Who cares. Busted is busted. You shouldn't need a comp sci degree to
> install a simple OS upgrade. The fact that the installer can't figure
> that out for you is just one more indicator of the immaturity of the
> product.
Heh, how do those size 15's taste Beeton Troll? You don't need a
comp.sci degree, you only need to follow directions, simple directions
complete with a complete installation script.
>>> A healthy dose of reality. You?
>> Beeton Troll, you and reality don't even have a passing aquaintence.
> Too funny coming from you!
Everyone still remembers your chicken little phase where you
ran around saying you were being excluded in an open public
forum while accusing me of being a fascist dictator.
>>> a) Nobody gives a shit about you.
>> Be that as it may Beeton Troll, you are not a reliable purveyor of fact.
> I am more reliable than you by a country mile.
The Beeton Troll disparages AmigaOS4 based on his vicarious
participation of reading news forums and jumping to wild
unsupported conclusions. He has never used or had demonstrated
for him an actual PPC OS4 Amiga but he is able to make
unsubstantiated generalisations as if they are indeed fact.
>>> b) Any problems that are in "The Final Update" will be there forever,
>>> hence the term "Final".
>> Dumber than a sack of hammers aren't you? 4.1 is next on the list after
>> the release of OS4ppc for the Classic Amiga PPC machines. You've
>> obviously missed the fact that there were four updates to the
>> pre-releases version of OS4 - Final, hence the "final" not
>> because it suddenly has been abandoned.
> Dream on, little troll, if it makes you feel any better. I prefer to
> take Hyperion's word at face value.
So, you missed the discussions about 4.1 and beyond?
>>> The need for such clumsy workarounds is one of the reasons that I
>>> wouldn't touch AOS4 or the "new" hardware with a 10m pole.
>> Like the XP SP's?
> No, not at all. XP SPs do not require multiple boot partitions.
No, those are called "restore points" Beeton Troll. And, they may or
may not fix the problem the user is experiencing. Whereas booting
from an another partition allows you to carry on.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:29:19 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> It's interesting that his list of working software is shorter than his
>> non-working list.
>
> It's interesting that you cannot stay on topic, ie. properly written
> applications run well under OS4 Final.
So you are implying that the majority of Amiga applications are not
properly written?
>>> Are you an idiot as well as a clown? I use my 渙1 as my only
>>> computer at the moment and have been doing so for 6 months since
>>> my disasterous attempt to put BSD on the Sparc Ultra. I never
>>> felt the need to reinstall Solaris 10 or activate any of my pc's.
>
> What no comment, don't you want to bring up my Amiga
> peripheral strategy which has now been abandoned since
> OS4 Final/Ibrowse 2.3 and so on?
My comment is quoted below. If you want to abandon your strengths and
cling to your weaknesses that's your business.
>> Nice dodge. Just answer the question for a change. Are you
>> disappointed with "The Final Update"? Yes or no?
>
> No, I am very happy with OS4.
And screw anyone who has differing experiences with AOS4, right TerryTroll?
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:16:42 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>>> Clockmeister wrote:
>>>> Just more buggy shite, empty promises and eternal waiting...
>>> But at least TerryTroll is happy and that's all that really matters.
>> I'm certainly not the only one. AS I asked before, how many
>> users are you going on about and is that amount even a
>> percentage point of actual total users?
> It would only take 2 or 3 disgruntled users to represent
> a percentage point these days.
See, that'ws why you shouldn't be doing the math.
Even using your conservative estimate of 1,000
users your math makes a liar out of you.
>There are far more than that voicing their beefs
> on amigaworld.net.
How many of those issues have been resolved? How
many of those issues are based on 68K apps running
under emulation? How many of those issues are being
caused by apps that looked compliant until this moment
and now have failed?
Terry
>
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:12:43 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> I know enough about AOS4 to stay well clear of it. Which is more than
>>> you can say for yourself. But you're drifting off topic again. We were
>>> discussing your unamiganess, not your lack of good judgement.
>> I thought we were discussing your ignorance Beeton Troll.
> That just goes to show how clued out you are.
Nope, it was definitely your ignorance.
>>> Please provide a link showing where I have said any different.
>> Exactly, hence the frequent Fire Department visits to remove those size
>> 15's from your clown mouth.
> So you think that 'putting one's foot in one's mouth' means to be
> consistent and accurate?? You must be constantly breaking your nose on
> 'Exit Only' doors.
You are neither accurate, relying on third hand reports, nor consistent,
flip flopping around more than a fish out of water.
>>> What I don't understand about 4.0 is why anybody bothered.
>> The only people bothered seem to be the Trolls like yourself.
> Learn to read, troll. Bothered as in 'Why would Hyperion bother to
> waste their time and money on a product that was clearly doomed from the
> start?'. Bothered as in 'Why would any user bother with AOS4 when there
> are far better products on the market?'.
You've missed a few posts it seems, and numerous announcements as
well as a number of discussions on the subject. That must be why you
are so clueless on the subject.
>>> Let's assume that 1000 people (it's a rather generous figure, but bear
>>> with me) bought AOS4 at $50 a copy. That's $50,000 gross revenue.
>> Or 2000@$100 a copy. $200,000.
> LOL! Yah, sure, whatever. Dream on, little dude.
What did your copy of OS4 cost Beeton Troll? I don't need to
dream, guess or even lie, I bought a copy.
>>> Now let's assume that only 2 people have been working on AOS4 full-time
>>> for these past 5 years, and that they work for peanuts - say
>>> $50,000/year each.
>> Or $25,000 as they are independent contracters.
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yah, good one! No half-ways competent software
> developer would work for $50,000/year, much less $25k. Mind you, nobody
> could accuse AOS4 developers of being competent, so maybe you have a
> point there...
You always have to mix in other issues when you get your nuts in
a clapper don't you. You think that they are only working on one
project full time? What would make you think that?
> As for AOS4 developers being independent contractors, you do realize
> that independent contractors have to pay for their own benefits, pension
> plans, office space and other expenses out of their own pockets? Thus
> they tend to charge *more* for their services than the average salaried
> employee, not less.
You've never lived in Europe have you.
>>> Now let us further assume that these two employees
>>> must pay for the cost of development out of their own pocket. That
>>> would include office space, support staff, office equipment and
>>> supplies, development hardware and software, utility bills, benefits,
>>> marketing, support, SDK production and distribution, AOS4 CD production
>>> and distribution, web site development and support, taxes, etc., etc.,
>>> etc. Therefore, the total cost of development is encompassed entirely
>>> by the wages alone, which add up to $500,000.
>> Hmmm....that would be $250,000 by my count.
> Sure, using incompetent welfare-case software developers.
Don't believe everything you've read Beeton Troll, it makes
you look a little silly.
>>> If you subtract the cost of development from the gross revenue, Hyperion
>>> took a loss of $450,000.
>> Or less if you used my equally relevant and correct guesses.
> True. Using your ridiculously laughable assumptions, Hyperion only lost
> 50 grand. You're not really helping your argument here, Terry.
Now, add back in the work being done on OEM embedded projects
and watch the balance change.
>>> Those numbers are guesses, obviously, but guesses that grossly flatter
>>> Hyperion. If you want to get even more flattering (I.E. sillier) about
>>> it you could assume that they sold 5 time my generous assumption of 1000
>>> copies - then they would only have lost a quarter million dollars on the
>>> venture.
> > Don't bother to enter in any consideration for an embedded product
> > being worked on concurrently with the re-writing of AmigaOS or any other
> > projects that may be on the boards within Hyperion.
> Amiga Inc. own the rights to any embedded products (of which there are
> none). And needing to subsidize AOS4 with their PC products isn't
> exactly a gold star for Hyperion's respectability, is it?
OEM OS4 based PPC embedded projects?
>>> No matter how you juggle the numbers, Hyperion lost their shirt.
>> Too bad they still seem to be in business, a business that is not solely
>> or exclusively dedicated to OS4 which they support as much being
>> Amigans as a business proposition.
> Thank goodness for PCs saving the day!
If that is indeed the case, but again you cannot prove you are
not blowing wind out your ass.
>>> You do realize that you include yourself in that group, do you not?
>> I can provide countless examples of your potty mouthed tirades while
>> you can do nothing of the sort.
> That is correct, I cannot provide examples of my "potty mouthed
> tirades". It requires someone as dishonest as you to do that. *Your*
> foul mouthed tirades, OTOH, are well documented.
There's that language usage problem again, it is not "cannot" but
"won't". You won't provide embarassing examples of your potty
mouthed tirades. I also remember your problem with finding
things so technically you may not be lying when you say you
"cannot".
>> Somehow it has never sunk in that the guy who actually uses the OS
>> and the hardware isn't the troll in .advocacy, that would be you
>> Beeton Troll. Badmouthing everything you can think of and when you
>> can't think of anything then badmouthing the users.
> The only thing I badmouth is TerryTroll. I can't help it, I'm too
> honest to do otherwise.
You badmouth anyone who supports the Amiga. It's all
in the public record.
>>> Which isn't advocacy. Why is nobody advocating AOS4?
> > No hardware. Are you "stoopid" too Beeton Troll?
> That's funny, I could have sworn that you claim to be running AOS4. But
> now you claim that there is no hardware that it will run on. So which
> claim are you lying about then?
Nice try Beeton Troll, there is no new hardware at this juncture even
though OS4 Final has been released. As for advocating, what, to you?
No one is going to voluntarily subject themselves to your potty mouthed
illogical rants and delusions.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:45:25 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> I did. Can't you read?
>
> If it is an application taking down the system then there are
> several viable strategies.
The best such strategy being to dump an OS so fragile that it would
allow an application to take the system down.
> If it is the OS, which it is not, then
> there are fewer options.
Now Terry is an expert at debugging software problems. Will wonders
never cease!
> I see you are now recycling Win95/98 arguments against the
> Amiga. Good strategy Beeton Troll.
Que??
>> Who cares. Busted is busted. You shouldn't need a comp sci degree to
>> install a simple OS upgrade. The fact that the installer can't figure
>> that out for you is just one more indicator of the immaturity of the
>> product.
>
> Heh, how do those size 15's taste Beeton Troll? You don't need a
> comp.sci degree, you only need to follow directions, simple directions
> complete with a complete installation script.
So a large percentage of AOS4 users are incapable of following simple
directions? That's not a very complementary thing for you to say, Terry.
>> Too funny coming from you!
>
> Everyone still remembers your chicken little phase where you
> ran around saying you were being excluded in an open public
> forum while accusing me of being a fascist dictator.
Yes, they remember it as being yet another of TerryTrolls silly tirades.
>> I am more reliable than you by a country mile.
>
> The Beeton Troll disparages AmigaOS4 based on his vicarious
> participation of reading news forums and jumping to wild
> unsupported conclusions. He has never used or had demonstrated
> for him an actual PPC OS4 Amiga but he is able to make
> unsubstantiated generalisations as if they are indeed fact.
Care to identify one of these non-factual generalizations? The fact is
that AOS4 is an ill-conceived toy full of weaknesses. I don't need to
use it to know that as a fact, any more than I need to help the Nigerian
government with their cash flow problems to know that as a scam.
>> Dream on, little troll, if it makes you feel any better. I prefer to
>> take Hyperion's word at face value.
>
> So, you missed the discussions about 4.1 and beyond?
LOL. Yah, sure. I've also read that AOS5.0 will be released in 2Q2000,
and that there will be 180 million Amiga users by 2003. Are you really
that gullible?
>> No, not at all. XP SPs do not require multiple boot partitions.
>
> No, those are called "restore points" Beeton Troll. And, they may or
> may not fix the problem the user is experiencing. Whereas booting
> from an another partition allows you to carry on.
You surely must be the only person on the planet who could argue that an
upgrade is deemed a success because you don't have to use it when it
breaks your system.
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:29:19 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> It's interesting that his list of working software is shorter than his
>>> non-working list.
>> It's interesting that you cannot stay on topic, ie. properly written
>> applications run well under OS4 Final.
> So you are implying that the majority of Amiga applications are not
> properly written?
These particular examples were pulled off AmiNet according to
the poster's personal interests.
Using the term "majority" is a weasel way for you to troll.
>>>> Are you an idiot as well as a clown? I use my 渙1 as my only
>>>> computer at the moment and have been doing so for 6 months since
>>>> my disasterous attempt to put BSD on the Sparc Ultra. I never
>>>> felt the need to reinstall Solaris 10 or activate any of my pc's.
>> What no comment, don't you want to bring up my Amiga
>> peripheral strategy which has now been abandoned since
>> OS4 Final/Ibrowse 2.3 and so on?
> My comment is quoted below. If you want to abandon your strengths and
> cling to your weaknesses that's your business.
That's very clever Beeton Troll. Say nothing in an eloquent fashion.
>>> Nice dodge. Just answer the question for a change. Are you
>>> disappointed with "The Final Update"? Yes or no?
>> No, I am very happy with OS4.
> And screw anyone who has differing experiences with
> AOS4, right TerryTroll?
Pardon me? Nobody is screwing anyone, if an app has a
flaw then it has a flaw, you have choices and workarounds.
Try that with Windows, you'll be lucky to get off with a
reinstall.
Terry
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:45:25 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> I did. Can't you read?
>> If it is an application taking down the system then there are
>> several viable strategies.
> The best such strategy being to dump an OS so fragile that it would
> allow an application to take the system down.
Windows has a richer example filled history than AmigaOS.
>> If it is the OS, which it is not, then
>> there are fewer options.
> Now Terry is an expert at debugging software problems. Will wonders
> never cease!
You're funny. You go on about how there is no support and
when people mention that they have coped you trump that
up into bragging. 98 % of my software just walked over to my
OS4 pre-release setup. It's still working.
>> I see you are now recycling Win95/98 arguments against the
>> Amiga. Good strategy Beeton Troll.
> Que??
Sorry, I forgot abstract reasoning is beyond your ken.
>>> Who cares. Busted is busted. You shouldn't need a comp sci degree to
>>> install a simple OS upgrade. The fact that the installer can't figure
>>> that out for you is just one more indicator of the immaturity of the
>>> product.
>> Heh, how do those size 15's taste Beeton Troll? You don't need a
>> comp.sci degree, you only need to follow directions, simple directions
>> complete with a complete installation script.
> So a large percentage of AOS4 users are incapable of following simple
> directions? That's not a very complementary thing for you to say, Terry.
Again, it's you that says things like "large percentage" when there are
a
few users with a few issues mostly resolvable.
>>> Too funny coming from you!
>> Everyone still remembers your chicken little phase where you
>> ran around saying you were being excluded in an open public
>> forum while accusing me of being a fascist dictator.
> Yes, they remember it as being yet another of TerryTrolls silly tirades.
Oh come on Beeton Troll, you went apeshit over the fact you
weren't getting any respect for your vaunted knowledge and
were actually being asked to put up or shut up.
>>> I am more reliable than you by a country mile.
>> The Beeton Troll disparages AmigaOS4 based on his vicarious
>> participation of reading news forums and jumping to wild
>> unsupported conclusions. He has never used or had demonstrated
>> for him an actual PPC OS4 Amiga but he is able to make
>> unsubstantiated generalisations as if they are indeed fact.
> Care to identify one of these non-factual generalizations? The fact is
> that AOS4 is an ill-conceived toy full of weaknesses. I don't need to
> use it to know that as a fact, any more than I need to help the Nigerian
> government with their cash flow problems to know that as a scam.
The fact is, Beeton Troll, that you don't use it, haven't used nor have
you even seen it running. You constantly puff yourself up and
make absolute declarations based on a casual relationship
with the facts.
>>> Dream on, little troll, if it makes you feel any better. I prefer to
>>> take Hyperion's word at face value.
>> So, you missed the discussions about 4.1 and beyond?
> LOL. Yah, sure. I've also read that AOS5.0 will be released in 2Q2000,
> and that there will be 180 million Amiga users by 2003. Are you really
> that gullible?
That's Amiga Inc.'s plan. 4.0 is Hyperions'.
>>> No, not at all. XP SPs do not require multiple boot partitions.
>> No, those are called "restore points" Beeton Troll. And, they may or
>> may not fix the problem the user is experiencing. Whereas booting
>> from an another partition allows you to carry on.
> You surely must be the only person on the planet who could argue that an
> upgrade is deemed a success because you don't have to use it when it
> breaks your system.
It doesn't break the sytem Beeton Troll, some applications no longer
run. If they cannot be replaced then you can roll back to the previous
version using a separate boot partition.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:50:45 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> It would only take 2 or 3 disgruntled users to represent
>> a percentage point these days.
>
> See, that'ws why you shouldn't be doing the math.
> Even using your conservative estimate of 1,000
> users your math makes a liar out of you.
If 1/3 of those who bought AOS4 are still using it, it would be a
miracle. Especially if your claim is true that there is no hardware
capable or running it.
>> There are far more than that voicing their beefs
>> on amigaworld.net.
>
> How many of those issues have been resolved?
Not many if you believe what you read on amigaworld.net.
> How
> many of those issues are based on 68K apps running
> under emulation? How many of those issues are being
> caused by apps that looked compliant until this moment
> and now have failed?
Irrelevant. If you can't use your applications, the OS is worthless.
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:50:45 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> It would only take 2 or 3 disgruntled users to represent
>>> a percentage point these days.
>> See, that'ws why you shouldn't be doing the math.
>> Even using your conservative estimate of 1,000
>> users your math makes a liar out of you.
> If 1/3 of those who bought AOS4 are still using it, it would be a
> miracle. Especially if your claim is true that there is no hardware
> capable or running it.
Again your hyperbole makes you out the clown with his
size 15's stuck in his mouth. There is currently no new hardware
though several prototype models are in circulation amongst
developers.
>>> There are far more than that voicing their beefs
>>> on amigaworld.net.
>> How many of those issues have been resolved?
> Not many if you believe what you read on amigaworld.net.
You don't read well to begin with, I certainly don't expect
you to be able to follow the conversational threads.
>> How
>> many of those issues are based on 68K apps running
>> under emulation? How many of those issues are being
>> caused by apps that looked compliant until this moment
>> and now have failed?
> Irrelevant. If you can't use your applications, the OS is worthless.
Ah, but the joy is that you can continue to use those apps with
a mere seven second reboot into a previous update version
of the OS.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 00:01:08 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> So you think that 'putting one's foot in one's mouth' means to be
>> consistent and accurate?? You must be constantly breaking your nose on
>> 'Exit Only' doors.
>
> You are neither accurate, relying on third hand reports, nor consistent,
> flip flopping around more than a fish out of water.
Can you cite any examples of me being either inaccurate or inconsistent?
No? Thought not.
>> Learn to read, troll. Bothered as in 'Why would Hyperion bother to
>> waste their time and money on a product that was clearly doomed from the
>> start?'. Bothered as in 'Why would any user bother with AOS4 when there
>> are far better products on the market?'.
>
> You've missed a few posts it seems, and numerous announcements as
> well as a number of discussions on the subject.
Such as?
>> LOL! Yah, sure, whatever. Dream on, little dude.
>
> What did your copy of OS4 cost Beeton Troll? I don't need to
> dream, guess or even lie, I bought a copy.
I got a much better deal than you did. My pretend OS was free!
>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yah, good one! No half-ways competent software
>> developer would work for $50,000/year, much less $25k. Mind you, nobody
>> could accuse AOS4 developers of being competent, so maybe you have a
>> point there...
>
> You always have to mix in other issues when you get your nuts in
> a clapper don't you. You think that they are only working on one
> project full time? What would make you think that?
Er, what part of "full time" do you not understand? If a person is
working on a project full time then by definition they are not working
on any other project.
>> As for AOS4 developers being independent contractors, you do realize
>> that independent contractors have to pay for their own benefits, pension
>> plans, office space and other expenses out of their own pockets? Thus
>> they tend to charge *more* for their services than the average salaried
>> employee, not less.
>
> You've never lived in Europe have you.
So European software developers are willing to work below the poverty
threshold?
>> Sure, using incompetent welfare-case software developers.
>
> Don't believe everything you've read Beeton Troll, it makes
> you look a little silly.
Compared with you, nobody looks silly.
>> True. Using your ridiculously laughable assumptions, Hyperion only lost
>> 50 grand. You're not really helping your argument here, Terry.
>
> Now, add back in the work being done on OEM embedded projects
> and watch the balance change.
There are no embedded projects. But if there were, Amiga Inc would own
the rights. Either way, Hyperion get nothing out of the deal.
>> Amiga Inc. own the rights to any embedded products (of which there are
>> none). And needing to subsidize AOS4 with their PC products isn't
>> exactly a gold star for Hyperion's respectability, is it?
>
> OEM OS4 based PPC embedded projects?
See above.
>> Thank goodness for PCs saving the day!
>
> If that is indeed the case, but again you cannot prove you are
> not blowing wind out your ass.
Even you admit that Hyperion are losing money on the Amiga. If that is
so they where are they getting the money to subsidize it from? Maybe
Bill Gates considers them a charity case.
>> That is correct, I cannot provide examples of my "potty mouthed
>> tirades". It requires someone as dishonest as you to do that. *Your*
>> foul mouthed tirades, OTOH, are well documented.
>
> There's that language usage problem again
Yes, yours.
>> The only thing I badmouth is TerryTroll. I can't help it, I'm too
>> honest to do otherwise.
>
> You badmouth anyone who supports the Amiga. It's all
> in the public record.
Not true. Clockmeister must surely have provided the most Amiga support
over the years of anybody here. Have I ever badmouthed him? No. It's
only the loud-mouthed, pompous, blow hard trolls like you and Vent and
SG, who have never done one single constructive thing for the Amiga,
that I have badmouthed. And for good reason.
>> That's funny, I could have sworn that you claim to be running AOS4. But
>> now you claim that there is no hardware that it will run on. So which
>> claim are you lying about then?
>
> Nice try Beeton Troll, there is no new hardware at this juncture even
> though OS4 Final has been released.
So what? Why is that preventing you from advocating AOS4?
> As for advocating, what, to you?
To anyone. It isn't happening. Anywhere. Why is that?
--
Gary Beeton
Gary Beeton
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 00:38:58 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> So you are implying that the majority of Amiga applications are not
>> properly written?
>
> These particular examples were pulled off AmiNet according to
> the poster's personal interests.
I was under the impression that AOS4 was designed to run legacy
software. If so then you cannot blame the legacy software for AOS4 not
running it.
> Using the term "majority" is a weasel way for you to troll.
I based my observation on the data that was provided by the poster that
you referenced. I do not doubt his information. Feel free to call
him into question if you wish.
>> And screw anyone who has differing experiences with
>> AOS4, right TerryTroll?
>
> Pardon me? Nobody is screwing anyone, if an app has a
> flaw then it has a flaw, you have choices and workarounds.
You always attempt to discredit anyone who says anything negative about
AOS4, no matter how valid or honest their complaint is.
--
Gary Beeton
Gary Beeton
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:04:10 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> The best such strategy being to dump an OS so fragile that it would
>> allow an application to take the system down.
>
> Windows has a richer example filled history than AmigaOS.
History, as in ancient. That hasn't been an issue with Windows for
many, many years. Almost as many years as AOS is behind it.
>> Now Terry is an expert at debugging software problems. Will wonders
>> never cease!
>
> You're funny. You go on about how there is no support and
> when people mention that they have coped you trump that
> up into bragging.
Coping isn't support, moron.
>>> I see you are now recycling Win95/98 arguments against the
>>> Amiga. Good strategy Beeton Troll.
>
>> Que??
>
> Sorry, I forgot abstract reasoning is beyond your ken.
Abstract reasoning I can handle. Obtuse is a completely different matter.
>> So a large percentage of AOS4 users are incapable of following simple
>> directions? That's not a very complementary thing for you to say, Terry.
>
> Again, it's you that says things like "large percentage" when there are
> a
> few users with a few issues mostly resolvable.
Large percentage <> large number.
>> Yes, they remember it as being yet another of TerryTrolls silly tirades.
>
> Oh come on Beeton Troll, you went apeshit over the fact you
> weren't getting any respect for your vaunted knowledge and
> were actually being asked to put up or shut up.
Or so you'd like people to believe. The truth, as usual, is quite
different from your frothing-at-the-mouth tirade.
>> Care to identify one of these non-factual generalizations? The fact is
>> that AOS4 is an ill-conceived toy full of weaknesses. I don't need to
>> use it to know that as a fact, any more than I need to help the Nigerian
>> government with their cash flow problems to know that as a scam.
>
> The fact is, Beeton Troll, that you don't use it, haven't used nor have
> you even seen it running. You constantly puff yourself up and
> make absolute declarations based on a casual relationship
> with the facts.
And yet you are unable to cite any such example. Curious, that.
>> LOL. Yah, sure. I've also read that AOS5.0 will be released in 2Q2000,
>> and that there will be 180 million Amiga users by 2003. Are you really
>> that gullible?
>
> That's Amiga Inc.'s plan. 4.0 is Hyperions'.
Unlike Hyperion, at least Amiga Inc had a plan.
>> You surely must be the only person on the planet who could argue that an
>> upgrade is deemed a success because you don't have to use it when it
>> breaks your system.
>
> It doesn't break the sytem Beeton Troll, some applications no longer
> run.
And what use is a system that can't run applications? None whatsoever.
> If they cannot be replaced then you can roll back to the previous
> version using a separate boot partition.
Tell us again how AOS4 is so great because you don't have to use it.
--
Gary Beeton
Gary Beeton
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:43:46 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> If 1/3 of those who bought AOS4 are still using it, it would be a
>> miracle. Especially if your claim is true that there is no hardware
>> capable or running it.
>
> Again your hyperbole makes you out the clown with his
> size 15's stuck in his mouth. There is currently no new hardware
> though several prototype models are in circulation amongst
> developers.
Nevertheless, 1/3 * 1000 <> 1000
>> Not many if you believe what you read on amigaworld.net.
>
> You don't read well to begin with, I certainly don't expect
> you to be able to follow the conversational threads.
I read just fine. And unlike you, I read without blinders on.
>> Irrelevant. If you can't use your applications, the OS is worthless.
>
> Ah, but the joy is that you can continue to use those apps with
> a mere seven second reboot into a previous update version
> of the OS.
Your joy is what most people would consider to be a royal pain in the ass.
--
Gary Beeton
Peter Bjørn Perlsø
> Clockmeister wrote:
>>
>> The final update to the everlasting beta has been completed. Now you
>> have to wait for new hardware to run it on which in Amigaland will
>> likely take another eternity.
>>
>> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/8296/53/
>
> "The Final Update" has a certain note of... er, finality about it. As
> in don't expect any further bug fixed, enhancements, or development of
> any kind. Ever. Can't say I blame Hyperion though. They must have
> lost their shirts on this ill-planned endeavour.
I'm afraid you're right. The money is on OS 5 now. But thats not saying
much, is it?
--
"If you had a spouse that behaved like your government, you could not
only break free of the relationship, you might be able to collect
damages or even have the offender jailed, or at least ordered to stay
away from you." --Joseph Sobran - http://titancity.com/blog/
Clockmeister
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:02:46 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>
>> "anamigan" <m...@wherever.com> wrote in message
>> news:106118882759...@news.dccnet.com...
>
>>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:32:10 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>
>>>> No, no, no Terry, you are the clown clutching the Amiga
>>>> straw remember and 99.9999999999999999 % of the
>>>> world do not use Amigas, including me.
>
>>> Their loss, I do happen to use an Amiga and you
>>> are still a cutout paper clown.
>
>> Nope. OS4 final is a disaster by most accounts,
>> and that is coming from the users themselves you clown.
>
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22093&forum=32
>
>>>> Do try and keep up.
>
>>> I'm using OS4 Final.
>
>> Can you honestly and truthfully say that you aren't
>> disappointed with the final product?
>
> Are you an idiot as well as a clown? I use my 渙1 as my only
> computer at the moment and have been doing so for 6 months since
> my disasterous attempt to put BSD on the Sparc Ultra. I never
> felt the need to reinstall Solaris 10 or activate any of my pc's.
That doesn't answer my question.
>> Be honest now...
>
> Right, okay, it's been a little chill in my computer room without
> a pc running and now I have to wear a fleecy.
>
So your more then crashhappy browser under 4.0 is good enough for you? Good
for you, but most people wouldn't be happy with that POS.
Clockmeister
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:06:00 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>
>> XP service packs don't require multiple installs
>> on different partitions you clown.
>
> I noticed, as did everyone else, that you failed to address
> the actual OS4 Final issues that were raised.
>
> Please tell the crowd what "restore" points are for in the XP
> paradigm.
Are you suggesting that restore points are complete installs of different
partitions? If you are, you are completely wrong ofcourse.
> Please tell the crowd why a six month "reinstall" is a good
> maintenance strategy for XP.
I haven't reinstalled XP in years. Only the clueless do reinstalls because
they are too stupid to sort out minor issues.
> Please explain why there is a range of 5 minutes to several
> hours for an XP SP upgrade.
Beats waiting for 5 years for a broken final update. Support is a good thing
Terry though you can be excused for forgetting what support is all about
since you use an Amiga.
> Please explain to the assembled masses why such a superior
> OS.... ooops sorry Clockie, you wouldn't know would you.
>
I do, obviously, because I'm not the clown who thinks OS4 final is viable.
Clockmeister
That is just laughable, really. Worse still is that you seem to be happy to
accept such an amateur OS that you have to boot from another partition to
run a program.
No one would accept that if it were a commercially sold OS in the real
world.
Clockmeister
Which makes the "upgrade" more of a degrade. Why bother running the update
at all?
jorkany
anamigan wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:02:46 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
> > Can you honestly and truthfully say that you aren't
> > disappointed with the final product?
>
> computer at the moment
Just a couple of posts back you claimed you were using an Amiga.
> and have been doing so for 6 months since
> my disasterous attempt to put BSD on the Sparc Ultra.
LOLOLOL!!!!
> I never
> felt the need to reinstall Solaris 10 or activate any of my pc's.
What about the "peripherals"?
> > Be honest now...
>
> Right, okay, it's been a little chill in my computer room without
> a pc running and now I have to wear a fleecy.
As often as A1s burn up the CPU you'd think you would be wearing Speedo.
jorkany
> The update runs fine here. Problems , if any, are resolved one issue at
> a time. Most
> users have a copy of #3 and #4 on separate bootable partitions if
> something breaks
> so that they can still use their applications.
Hilarious!
> Not having used any of
> the new hardware
> or the new OS over the last year or two would leave you oblivious to
> such obvious
> workarounds.
On the contrary, you're the one who isn't using new hardware. In any
case, there's no need for someone using any other OS to drop back to an
earlier version - they just get an updated version of the application
or an equivalent that works. See, you can do that when you have an OS
that has an active developer community and support. Poor Terry, I can
see him madly rebooting his A1 time and time again simply to go from
editing, to storing, to printing, to uploading, etc.
jorkany
> On 16 Jan 2007 17:35:31 -0800, "jorkany" wrote:
>
> > anamigan wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:19:28 GMT, Gary Beeton wrote:
>
> >>> unamigan wrote:
>
> >> Noted, cheap cheesy shot dredged from your humongous
> >> troll tactics database.
>
> > No doubt just an observation, a valid one at that. Most OS4 users are
> > openly anti-Amiga.
>
> jerkany. That's the type of cheap cheesy shot I am referring to. It is
> one of Beeton Troll's standby's.
>
> As for Anti-Amiga....don't you mean Anti-Amiga Inc.
No, I mean anti-Amiga. You might remember the Amiga, it was made by
Commodore? Don't take my word that OS4 users are anti-Amiga, here's an
example so you can see for yourself:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21957&forum=14#352505
"Just anything to get rid of classic hardware (and amiga resellers/ebay
crooks/speculators) once for all !"
> >> Unlike you they are part of the Amiga community and actively
> >> contributing.
>
> > They are part of the OS4 community, and they barely even support that.
> > They contribute nothing to the Amiga community.
>
> I'm sure Beeton Troll and his pals would much rather use your version
> of AmigaOS on their machines, I'm just wondering when the rest of us
> are going to see its release.
They were released a decade ago. I guess you never used the 3.x and
earlier versions of AOS, then? You know, the OS (and hardware) you
couldn't wait to get rid of?
> >> People moved out of advocacy over the years to avoid foul mouthed
> >> ignorant trolls like yourself.
>
> > No, they left advocacy and the other Amiga related newsgroups over the
> > years because the Amiga is a dead subject.
>
> If, and try and follow my logic here, Amiga is such a dead subject then
> why
> are such astute industry observers and analysts like you and Beeton
> Troll
> still here yapping away?
I don't know about the others who post here, but I don't support the
defamation that the Amiga name has been subjected to over the past few
years. My argument against it will stand as testimony that there were
still those out there who respected the Amiga and all it brought to
computing, rather than just falling over at the whims of usurpers who
are Amiga in name only.
As for your "logic", just look around the other amiga newsgroups aside
from advocacy - not exactly bustling with activity are they? Did Beeton
and Co. chase everyone away from ALL amiga newsgroups? Of course not,
everyone just trickled away over the years. Not sure if you noticed but
it's 2007, not 1992.
Gary Beeton
> I don't know about the others who post here, but I don't support the
> defamation that the Amiga name has been subjected to over the past few
> years. My argument against it will stand as testimony that there were
> still those out there who respected the Amiga and all it brought to
> computing, rather than just falling over at the whims of usurpers who
> are Amiga in name only.
Well said!
--
Gary Beeton
anamigan
> Well said!
You two need to get over yourselves. Really. Like Mutt and Jeff are you.
Neither of you respect the Amiga.
Terry
Gary Beeton
Yet more proof that TerryTroll can't read.
--
Gary Beeton
Clockmeister
Most of us here respect the rich Amiga heritage, not that abomination that
you call an Amiga these days.
jorkany
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22110&forum=14
Seeing more and more posts like this every week.
Ive
You have dwelt-in a bit here. Insanity?
++Ive++
Gary Beeton
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:04:10 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>
>>> The Beeton Troll disparages AmigaOS4 based on his vicarious
>>> participation of reading news forums and jumping to wild
>>> unsupported conclusions. He has never used or had demonstrated
>>> for him an actual PPC OS4 Amiga but he is able to make
>>> unsubstantiated generalisations as if they are indeed fact.
>
>> Care to identify one of these non-factual generalizations? The fact is
>> that AOS4 is an ill-conceived toy full of weaknesses. I don't need to
>> use it to know that as a fact, any more than I need to help the Nigerian
>> government with their cash flow problems to know that as a scam.
>
> The fact is, Beeton Troll, that you don't use it, haven't used nor have
> you even seen it running. You constantly puff yourself up and
> make absolute declarations based on a casual relationship
> with the facts.
You like to make such a big deal about the validity of my opinion of
AOS4 based solely upon whether or not I've used it. Let's test the
validity of that logic, shall we? I'm going to put forth two arguments
based on that logic. You tell me if they are both rational in your
mind, okay?
The first argument should look familiar to you: 'You haven't used AOS4
so you can't possibly understand how good it is. Don't listen to all
those neigh-sayer and so-called experts who say it's unpleasant and
messy, because they haven't tried it either. So until you've tried it
first-hand you cannot know how great it really is.'
The second argument uses precisely the same logic. In fact it uses
precisely the same wording, with only the subject changed: 'You haven't
shot yourself in the head so you can't possibly understand how good it
is. Don't listen to all those neigh-sayer and so-called experts who say
it's unpleasant and messy, because they haven't tried it either. So
until you've tried it first-hand you cannot know how great it really is.'
Since the logic in both arguments is identical, if you accept one as
being rational then you have to accept both. So do they both sound
rational to you, Terry?
The fact is, you completely ignore any possibility that people may be
able to glean important information about a system by reading its specs,
or that expert opinion on the topic is ambivalent at best, or that any
reviews have been less than glowing, or that nobody is capable of
telling people why they would want to use it, or the simple fact that
AOS4 isn't capable of doing what most people want/need a system to do
for them. Each and every one of those points is completely valid,
honest, and real.
Are you prepared to address valid, honest, real criticisms of the
system? Or are you content to prance about spewing your utterly
irrational 'you-haven't-used-it' tirade?
--
Gary Beeton
Clockmeister
"Gary Beeton" <gbe...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:E6Uth.797584$R63.151236@pd7urf1no...
$5 on the last option.
jorkany
> The fact is, you completely ignore any possibility that people may be
> able to glean important information about a system by reading its specs,
> or that expert opinion on the topic is ambivalent at best, or that any
> reviews have been less than glowing, or that nobody is capable of
> telling people why they would want to use it, or the simple fact that
> AOS4 isn't capable of doing what most people want/need a system to do
> for them. Each and every one of those points is completely valid,
> honest, and real.
The simple fact that you can't use OS4 even if you wanted to says
volumes about where OS4 is headed.
Ryan P.
>
> First OS4 broke nothing. The application no longer runs on OS4. It is
> broken not the OS. A patch can be made to correct the flaw and allow
> the program to once again become compliant under the OS.
I am not a programmer, so I'm not going to get into what may have
broke what. I'm just stating the fact that the software broke after the
OS update.
Which, of course, is a frequent and rather annoying problem with
Microsoft OS's.
>
> Sorry, I used Xenolink for 11 years. I haven't even tried to start it up
> as
> the internet and web pages are where things have moved to. If he wants
> to run CNet BBS now then all he has to do is rollback to OS4 #4 on
> another bootable partition and carry on. There is no benefit to be had,
> for the BBS which has until this time run perfectly, from upgrading to
> OS4 Final is there?
In theory, an updated OS is supposed to be more stable and reliable.
In the IT world, its generally good practice to keep up-to-date on all
patches for your software.
Of course, you also need to backup and test each update. And my
friend did this, which i why he was able to roll back to #4.
anamigan
> anamigan wrote:
>> First OS4 broke nothing. The application no longer runs on OS4. It is
>> broken not the OS. A patch can be made to correct the flaw and allow
>> the program to once again become compliant under the OS.
> I am not a programmer, so I'm not going to get into what may have
> broke what. I'm just stating the fact that the software broke after the
> OS update.
Okay.
> Which, of course, is a frequent and rather annoying problem with
> Microsoft OS's.
Hmmm, how did M$ get into this?
>> Sorry, I used Xenolink for 11 years. I haven't even tried to start it up
>> as the internet and web pages are where things have moved to. If he wants
>> to run CNet BBS now then all he has to do is rollback to OS4 #4 on
>> another bootable partition and carry on. There is no benefit to be had,
>> for the BBS which has until this time run perfectly, from upgrading to
>> OS4 Final is there?
> In theory, an updated OS is supposed to be more stable and reliable.
> In the IT world, its generally good practice to keep up-to-date on all
> patches for your software.
He needs a patch for his software. For what he is running on his Amiga
he derives little or no benefit from OS4 Final especially when the BBS
was running in a stable fashion before. It is legacy 68K software being
run under emulation and not PPC native.
> Of course, you also need to backup and test each update. And my
> friend did this, which i why he was able to roll back to #4.
A very sensible response to a frustrating problem.
Terry
Clockmeister
"Ryan P." <rpa...@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:45b9201a$0$28152$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> anamigan wrote:
>
>>
>> First OS4 broke nothing. The application no longer runs on OS4. It is
>> broken not the OS. A patch can be made to correct the flaw and allow
>> the program to once again become compliant under the OS.
>
> I am not a programmer, so I'm not going to get into what may have broke
> what. I'm just stating the fact that the software broke after the OS
> update.
>
> Which, of course, is a frequent and rather annoying problem with
> Microsoft OS's.
>
Is it? Never had a problem with any updates myself and I run a large variety
of applications.
anamigan
> Anamigan wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:04:10 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>>> Anamigan wrote:
>>>> The Beeton Troll disparages AmigaOS4 based on his vicarious
>>>> participation of reading news forums and jumping to wild
>>>> unsupported conclusions. He has never used or had demonstrated
>>>> for him an actual PPC OS4 Amiga but he is able to make
>>>> unsubstantiated generalisations as if they are indeed fact.
>>> Care to identify one of these non-factual generalizations? The fact is
>>> that AOS4 is an ill-conceived toy full of weaknesses. I don't need to
>>> use it to know that as a fact, any more than I need to help the Nigerian
>>> government with their cash flow problems to know that as a scam.
>> The fact is, Beeton Troll, that you don't use it, haven't used nor have
>> you even seen it running. You constantly puff yourself up and
>> make absolute declarations based on a casual relationship
>> with the facts.
> You like to make such a big deal about the validity of my opinion of
> AOS4 based solely upon whether or not I've used it.
Yes, Beeton Troll I do. As in, never having touched or used.
> Let's test the validity of that logic, shall we?
Oh, oh. I think we've been here before! Name that thread!
> I'm going to put forth two arguments based on that logic.
Noooooo......not your Vulcan TV Logic!!!
> You tell me if they are both rational in your
> mind, okay?
*sigh*
> The first argument should look familiar to you: 'You haven't used AOS4
> so you can't possibly understand how good it is. Don't listen to all
> those neigh-sayer and so-called experts who say it's unpleasant and
> messy, because they haven't tried it either. So until you've tried it
> first-hand you cannot know how great it really is.'
Uhm, stipulated that we are talking actual users of the OS without
assigning any expertise levels with the same by those individuals.
> The second argument uses precisely the same logic. In fact it uses
> precisely the same wording, with only the subject changed:
This is the part I was afraid of.
> 'You haven't shot yourself in the head so you can't
> possibly understand how good it is.
If that had happened, then there would be no further discussion
possible. You could test this yourself with a loaded firearm.
> Don't listen to all those neigh-sayer and so-called experts who say
> it's unpleasant and messy, because they haven't tried it either. So
> until you've tried it first-hand you cannot know how great it really is.'
This would be contained in a blood spattered note that was supposed
to convince me to try it?
> Since the logic in both arguments is identical, if you accept one as
> being rational then you have to accept both. So do they both sound
> rational to you, Terry?
Actually Beeton Troll, I don't. They are not the same. Only an idiot
or a troll like yourself would believe such nonsense.
> The fact is, you completely ignore any possibility that people may be
> able to glean important information about a system by reading its specs,
> or that expert opinion on the topic is ambivalent at best, or that any
> reviews have been less than glowing, or that nobody is capable of
> telling people why they would want to use it, or the simple fact that
> AOS4 isn't capable of doing what most people want/need a system to do
> for them. Each and every one of those points is completely valid,
> honest, and real.
Certainly, but it does not allow sweeping generalizations some
kind of credibility. If you've never used the system, then at best
you are an armchair quarterback.
> Are you prepared to address valid, honest, real criticisms of the
> system? Or are you content to prance about spewing your utterly
> irrational 'you-haven't-used-it' tirade?
If you had one to criticise I possibly might try one more time
to listen to you. But you don't. You won't. And you've declared
that before.
I do have a PPC Amiga running OS4 Final. I know what I am
talking about.
Terry
Gary Beeton
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 01:55:48 GMT, The Beeton Troll wrote:
>
>> You like to make such a big deal about the validity of my opinion of
>> AOS4 based solely upon whether or not I've used it.
>
> Yes, Beeton Troll I do. As in, never having touched or used.
Like I said.
>> Let's test the validity of that logic, shall we?
[snip Terry's inane drivel]
>> I'm going to put forth two arguments based on that logic.
[snip Terry's inane drivel]
>> You tell me if they are both rational in your
>> mind, okay?
[snip Terry's inane drivel]
>> The first argument should look familiar to you: 'You haven't used AOS4
>> so you can't possibly understand how good it is. Don't listen to all
>> those neigh-sayer and so-called experts who say it's unpleasant and
>> messy, because they haven't tried it either. So until you've tried it
>> first-hand you cannot know how great it really is.'
>
> Uhm, stipulated that we are talking actual users of the OS without
> assigning any expertise levels with the same by those individuals.
Could you phrase that in English please?
>> The second argument uses precisely the same logic. In fact it uses
>> precisely the same wording, with only the subject changed:
[snip Terry's inane drivel]
>> 'You haven't shot yourself in the head so you can't
>> possibly understand how good it is.
>
> If that had happened, then there would be no further discussion
> possible. You could test this yourself with a loaded firearm.
Don't forget, Terry, this is *your* logic, not mine. You are the only
one who gives this logic any credibility so you are the only one likely
to give the shotgun a try.
I, OTOH, wouldn't put a gun to my head any more than I would put an A1
on my desk!
>> Don't listen to all those neigh-sayer and so-called experts who say
>> it's unpleasant and messy, because they haven't tried it either. So
>> until you've tried it first-hand you cannot know how great it really is.'
>
> This would be contained in a blood spattered note that was supposed
> to convince me to try it?
Using your logic, you'll never know until you try it.
>> Since the logic in both arguments is identical, if you accept one as
>> being rational then you have to accept both. So do they both sound
>> rational to you, Terry?
>
> Actually Beeton Troll, I don't. They are not the same. Only an idiot
> or a troll like yourself would believe such nonsense.
I see. Er... sorry, no I don't see. Could you please elaborate?
Please tell us which argument is flawed and how it differs from the
other scenario.
>> The fact is, you completely ignore any possibility that people may be
>> able to glean important information about a system by reading its specs,
>> or that expert opinion on the topic is ambivalent at best, or that any
>> reviews have been less than glowing, or that nobody is capable of
>> telling people why they would want to use it, or the simple fact that
>> AOS4 isn't capable of doing what most people want/need a system to do
>> for them. Each and every one of those points is completely valid,
>> honest, and real.
>
> Certainly, but it does not allow sweeping generalizations some
> kind of credibility.
But Terry, the specs *are* unimpressive. Expert opinion *is* ambivalent
at best. Reviews *have* been less than glowing. And *nobody* thus far
has been capable of telling us why anybody would want to use an A1. And
yes, those are indeed sweeping generalizations, but they are 100%
factual, honest, and real in every way. In fact I challenge you to
produce even one single piece of evidence to contradict those
generalizations. You can't do it because no such evidence exists.
Those generalizations are all-inclusive with no exceptions. Me buying
and using an A1 will not change those facts one little bit.
You have also overlooked the one *specific* point I made - that AOS4 is
incapable of doing what I want and need a system to do for me. Your
meagre wants and needs may fall within the limited capabilities of the
A1 (and that's fine for you), but mine most certainly do not. Not even
close. Me buying and using an A1 can never change that fact either.
So please explain to me how those facts of life would differ if I were
to do as you demand by buying and using an A1?
>> Are you prepared to address valid, honest, real criticisms of the
>> system? Or are you content to prance about spewing your utterly
>> irrational 'you-haven't-used-it' tirade?
>
> If you had one to criticise I possibly might try one more time
> to listen to you. But you don't. You won't. And you've declared
> that before.
Utterly irrational tirade it is then. At least you are consistent.
> I do have a PPC Amiga running OS4 Final. I know what I am
> talking about.
The second point does not follow the first. At least not in your case.
I'll give you the benefit of a doubt on the first point, but you've
certainly never demonstrated the second.
--
Gary Beeton
jorkany
> He needs a patch for his software.
Development on CNet ceased long ago. Yet another "feature" of OS4 - no
support.
> For what he is running on his Amiga
> he derives little or no benefit from OS4 Final especially when the BBS
> was running in a stable fashion before. It is legacy 68K software being
> run under emulation and not PPC native.
Right, it's running in an emulator and it doesn't work, which means the
problem is even worse: the emulator in OS4 Final is faulty. CNet worked
correctly in the sandbox in earlier versions of OS4, but it will not
work with the changes made to the emulator for OS4 Final. The emulator
is a core feature of OS4 (whether Hyperion likes it or not) and it
doesn't work correctly anymore. If someone has to roll back to an
earlier release, what are the chances that they will "upgrade" to a new
version (not that one will ever appear)? Hyperion has lost those
customers.
Do you expect people to have an individual system setup for every
application they run? That's not viable because the only system which
can run OS4 is no longer available, so nobody can buy more. If booting
from another partition is the kind of multitasking OS4 Final brings,
then expect even more users to jump ship. Things haven't gotten better
for OS4 with the release of Final, they've gotten worse. We all know
you're willing to accept a half-assed computing environment Terry, but
it won't be possible for Hyperion to survive with just a single
customer.
Ryan P.
> On Jan 25, 8:08 pm, "anamigan" <m...@wherever.com> wrote:
>> He needs a patch for his software.
>
> Development on CNet ceased long ago. Yet another "feature" of OS4 - no
> support.
Actually, CNet is being actively developed. Somebody purchased the
code several months ago. New maintenance versions have been available
in that time...
Whether there will be major improvements or not, is obviously up in
the air.
Either way, it still appears to be in better shape than OS4. :)
>
>
>> For what he is running on his Amiga
>> he derives little or no benefit from OS4 Final especially when the BBS
>> was running in a stable fashion before. It is legacy 68K software being
>> run under emulation and not PPC native.
>
> Right, it's running in an emulator and it doesn't work, which means the
> problem is even worse: the emulator in OS4 Final is faulty. CNet worked
> correctly in the sandbox in earlier versions of OS4, but it will not
> work with the changes made to the emulator for OS4 Final. The emulator
> is a core feature of OS4 (whether Hyperion likes it or not) and it
> doesn't work correctly anymore. If someone has to roll back to an
> earlier release, what are the chances that they will "upgrade" to a new
> version (not that one will ever appear)? Hyperion has lost those
> customers.
Thank you for stating that clearer than I did.
>
> Do you expect people to have an individual system setup for every
> application they run? That's not viable because the only system which
> can run OS4 is no longer available, so nobody can buy more. If booting
> from another partition is the kind of multitasking OS4 Final brings,
> then expect even more users to jump ship. Things haven't gotten better
> for OS4 with the release of Final, they've gotten worse. We all know
> you're willing to accept a half-assed computing environment Terry, but
> it won't be possible for Hyperion to survive with just a single
> customer.
Another OS4 user (also another CNet operator) refused to install the
update at all.
I know that major update in software create problems, but with a user
base and software base as small the Amiga's, I don't think a responsible
developer would want ANY software to break.
Ryan P.
Frequent may have been an exageration. But have you done a major OS
update recently? There were lots of problems with SP2 for XP for
example. Not insurmountable for people with decent knowledge of
computers, but you average Betty had lots of problems.
Clockmeister
> Clockmeister wrote:
>> "Ryan P." <rpa...@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:45b9201a$0$28152$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>>> anamigan wrote:
>>>
>>>> First OS4 broke nothing. The application no longer runs on OS4. It is
>>>> broken not the OS. A patch can be made to correct the flaw and allow
>>>> the program to once again become compliant under the OS.
>>> I am not a programmer, so I'm not going to get into what may have broke
>>> what. I'm just stating the fact that the software broke after the OS
>>> update.
>>>
>>> Which, of course, is a frequent and rather annoying problem with
>>> Microsoft OS's.
>>>
>>
>> Is it? Never had a problem with any updates myself and I run a large
>> variety of applications.
>
> Frequent may have been an exageration. But have you done a major OS
> update recently?
Not since SP2, and that caused no problems.
There were lots of problems with SP2 for XP for
> example.
Neh, hardly any for the greater majority of users.
Not insurmountable for people with decent knowledge of
> computers, but you average Betty had lots of problems.
I found the opposite to be true, by far the greater majority of users had no
problems at all with upgrading to SP2.
anamigan
> Actually, CNet is being actively developed. Somebody
> purchased the code several months ago. New maintenance
> versions have been available in that time...
It is still 68K code though, isn't it?.
> Whether there will be major improvements or not, is obviously
> up in the air.
Do you mean whether it will be ported to OS4 or are you
thinking of how the software operates in its function as
a bbs?
> Either way, it still appears to be in better shape than OS4.
> :)
In what way? Are you saying that Amiga OS4 is not supported?
Are you saying that there are no developers of OS4 or applications
for OS4 left? Are you saying that there will be no upgrades,
improvements, fixes and enhancements ?
>>> For what he is running on his Amiga
>>> he derives little or no benefit from OS4 Final especially when the BBS
>>> was running in a stable fashion before. It is legacy 68K software being
>>> run under emulation and not PPC native.
>> Right, it's running in an emulator and it doesn't work, which means the
>> problem is even worse: the emulator in OS4 Final is faulty. CNet worked
>> correctly in the sandbox in earlier versions of OS4, but it will not
>> work with the changes made to the emulator for OS4 Final. The emulator
>> is a core feature of OS4 (whether Hyperion likes it or not) and it
>> doesn't work correctly anymore. If someone has to roll back to an
>> earlier release, what are the chances that they will "upgrade" to a new
>> version (not that one will ever appear)? Hyperion has lost those
>> customers.
> Thank you for stating that clearer than I did.
I'd be careful here Ryan, Jorkany just finished saying:
"I recognize things for which I have no aptitude and avoid doing
those things."
Obviously he is not abiding by this statement.
The emulator didn't change, the OS memory subsystem did.
>> Do you expect people to have an individual system setup for every
>> application they run? That's not viable because the only system which
>> can run OS4 is no longer available, so nobody can buy more. If booting
>> from another partition is the kind of multitasking OS4 Final brings,
>> then expect even more users to jump ship. Things haven't gotten better
>> for OS4 with the release of Final, they've gotten worse. We all know
>> you're willing to accept a half-assed computing environment Terry, but
>> it won't be possible for Hyperion to survive with just a single
>> customer.
> Another OS4 user (also another CNet operator) refused to
> install the update at all.
Because he didn't want the hassle or saw no benefit to doing so?
> I know that major update in software create problems, but with
> a user base and software base as small the Amiga's, I don't
> think a responsible developer would want ANY software to break.
Let's try and put this back into perspective and not have the cart
before the horse. AmigaOS4 Final has a new memory subsystem
installed. CNet, a 68K app, running under emulation, broke.
All my apps still work that I was running before I installed Final.
Some even work better. My memory usage is now very efficient.
The developer of CNet is not the developer of OS4. CNet is a
third party application that ran under OS 3.9 as 68K native.
CNet also ran under OS4 #4 and prior under emulation.
With the introduction of the new memory subsystem CNet as
an app appears to have broken.
Terry
anamigan
>
> "Ryan P." <rpa...@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:45ba5e53$0$24457$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>>There were lots of problems with SP2 for XP for
>> example.
> Neh, hardly any for the greater majority of users.
>>Not insurmountable for people with decent knowledge of
>> computers, but you average Betty had lots of problems.
> I found the opposite to be true, by far the greater majority of
> users had no problems at all with upgrading to SP2.
Why don'tyou two go and hash this out in windows forums
where you will get far more opinions.
It hardly seems to support your case, if you recreate what
Jorkany and Beeton Troll are trying to paste over OS4,
with blatant screwup and argument examples from the
allegedly far superior example of Windows XP.
Terry
Clockmeister
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:13:30 +0900, "Clockmeister" wrote:
>
>>
>> "Ryan P." <rpa...@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:45ba5e53$0$24457$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
>>>There were lots of problems with SP2 for XP for
>>> example.
>
>> Neh, hardly any for the greater majority of users.
>
>>>Not insurmountable for people with decent knowledge of
>>> computers, but you average Betty had lots of problems.
>
>> I found the opposite to be true, by far the greater majority of
>> users had no problems at all with upgrading to SP2.
>
> Why don'tyou two go and hash this out in windows forums
> where you will get far more opinions.
How about you start advocating the Amiga, if you want to stay on topic.
While your thinking of something that advocates the Amiga over system X
we'll just talk amongst ourselves OK?
anamigan
Sore spot eh?
Tch.
Terry
Clockmeister
No, just the facts.